How The NYC Subway Got Its Colors
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- čas přidán 21. 03. 2024
- Many cities around the world use randomly assigned colors to denote services, however, New York City takes a different approach, assigning colors based on trunk lines. In this video, we dive into the history of our subway's service designations and find out exactly why the Transit Authority went with our current scheme.
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I can’t imagine double lettering announcements this a Brooklyn bound AA train 😭
they said double A like double a batteries.
That sounds cursed 😭
I am making exactly what you are talking about. U can check my channel and find subway announcements from 1968 that I made! I still have many more to make tho.
I am making exactly what you are talking about. U can check my channel and find subway announcements from 1968 that I made! I still have many more to make tho.
@@electrikpikachujm69 how does it sound cursed
3:55 love the tiny F
lol
I remember when the BMT had numbers instead of letters from 1-15. That changed after the post war reorganization in the 1950s. That realalinement integrated the BMT with the IND having the letter only designations. The IRT remained the numbered only lines.
The current letter/number distinction corresponds to the A-division (IRT) and B-division (IND/BMT), which also corresponds to the width of the train cars. There is probably some internal benefit at the MTA by keeping the letters and numbers separated this way.
1967 Chrystie St tunnel opening where BMT lines followed the IND lines. A-H are IND, J-Z are BMT lines
@@jorgegaston5391 (Mostly)
There are a few exceptions like the M (which is debated on whether or not it is IND or BMT), and in a few decades we'll have the T.
In my home city, blue is for the river and green is for local service provided by national rail.
Other colors are mainly for contrast.
The 7 diamond makes sense. It's the only line where you have the same number but sometimes express. All the other lines, the express and local are different destinations entirely. The 6 though makes no sense since the exact opposite is true for the lex. Also the A should be 2 different letters since they can go 2 places; this is the only line with regular service that goes to 2 different terminals under one designation.
what about the (A)
@@electrikpikachujm69- The #5 train for decades have had different terminals, in the Bronx, Manhattan and Brooklyn. In the Bronx, the main terminal is Dyre Avenue, however some rush hours travel to/from 238th Street-WPR. In Manhattan, #5 trains often during the evenings, nights and weekends end at Bowling Green. In Brooklyn the #5 often travels to/from Flatbush Avenue/Brooklyn College, as well as to/from Utica Avenue. For decades during the rush hours E trains travel along the Archer Avenue route, as well as travel to/from 179th Street - it's decades long former main terminal. The F train in Brooklyn terminates at either Kings Highway or Coney Island. During the weekdays #6 trains terminate at either Parkchester or Pelham Bay Park. There are other historical examples.
Actually the DOES make sense. At a glance, you can tell if the train will be a local terminating at E. 177th Street-Parkchester, or a Bronx express terminating at Pelham Bay Park.
@@thedriver4038It also wouldn’t make sense for the 6 to also run express in Manhattan. It would only reduce local service by a lot and would be an issue for 4 and 5 trains.
As a New Yorker now living in Los Angeles, I wonder why the MTA never used the pink color like the LA Metro K line. 🤔
I believe back in the day they used pink bullets
They used to, but it disappeared I guess because it was too close to red and purple, but they're exploring it again starting with the buses.
Pink was used in the early color era because they needed more colors. When the number of colors was reduced in 1979 it was one of the colors that got left out.
Before the Chrystie St. connection opened in 1967, the IRT was black, BMT green & IND red. When the colors were simplified in 79, some of the lines retained the same colors for one of the routes. For example; 7th Ave was red for the 2, Broadway yellow for the N, 6th Ave orange for the D, 8th Ave dark blue for the A & grey for the L. My theory about getting rid of the double letters: people called the RR Rarely Rapid.
I love the addition of the funny 3D clips throughout the video. They are a new excellent addition to what makes up a MysticTransit video.
Glad you like them! They take a long time to make.
I’m from Jersey and usually I travel to the city once a week and my favourite subway lines is the either the Eighth Avenue line, Lexington ave line or the seventh avenue line.
Double letters are definitely confusing.
You wouldn't be wrong
Yea. Especially for lines that didn't have any type of express variant like the G or the L
The like the diamond especially Broadway line back in the days it’s help when R would skip stops in Brooklyn that and the N in Astoria
1:16; The 2 train logo in the 1960s is now the same logo from today. But, the other 7 trains with numbers has different colors.
Another super informative video Prior to the Christie St connection the first car had 2 color indicator lights on either side of the route sign If you knew your line’s color arrangement you could tell if it was your train coming by looking at those lights
That practice was common on the IRT until the late 1980s.
I love this video just learned something new or something I never really thought about myself 😂❤
I'm definitely glad you added the powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line circle because it's definitely needed right now then ever.. Keep adding the power blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line original color.
Nice work on the video I really like it plus I somehow never knew about the colors myself.
I was wondering about that for a while now. Glad, my question is being answered in this video :)
The powder blue 🔵 8 definitely need to come back to 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line.
The diamond symbols are only used where different trains on the same route are running local and express. The 6, 7, and F have portions of the route where some trains run local and others run express. But as you mentioned, the F only shows the diamond on the trains and not on the map. I attribute this to the fact that the diamond F runs so infrequently. For the 6 and 7, every other train goes express. There's also the Burnside Avenue short turns on the 4 which run express after 167th Street, but that pattern isn't shown on the map or on the trains. I think because there is no Manhattan-bound component to this pattern, they don't bother to show it.
The D express on Concourse, the J and Z running express from Myrtle Avenue to Marcy Avenue, and the 5 skipping all the stops between 3rd Avenue 149th Street and East 180th Street don't get diamond symbols because all of the trains on those routes skip the stops during rush hour.
Some rush hour service extensions or branches to a different terminal get a dashed line on the map, but there is no special designation on the trains other than the normal destination signs. Examples of this are the 5 to Nereid Avenue, the A to Rockaway Park, and the B to Bedford Park Boulevard. Then there are other rush hour service patterns that aren't shown on the map, despite there being an appreciable number of trains that operate that way. Examples include the N to 96th Street and E to 179th Street.
Well researched!!
The 1st Post Christie St map was the 1st to use colors. It also brought a bunch of new double letter routes. EE, JJ, RJ, MJ, QJ, TT and NX into the mix. Many were short lived, gone by the 1968 map.
The color from 1979 was done to identify specific trunk lines and branches, the eighth avenue line and the sixth avenue line pair up so we'll based on the ideals of the IND that they were given specific colors to compliment the two trunk lines of course this only implies to the branches of the north and east, Washington heights, concourse and the Queens Blvd line with the first six letters of the two Manhattan trunk lines but only two maintain the original pattern while the IRT did a similar matter using two complimentary colors as only two are pair up sharing the two lines in the outer borough the 2 and the 5.
I like that the two city-built IND trunks in Manhattan are blue and orange just like the city flag.
It makes sense having the letters trains only one digit compared to 2 back then. Even though some people still get confused with the A train going to Lefferts Blvd and Far Rockaway.
old lines were peak back then seems like
I miss the double letter designations for locals. I also miss the light up signs at the front of the trains that denoted Express or Local service.
I liked this show. I'm a subway buff.
I agree with the diamond services noting the express service from single lines. Unless there’s a better idea.
The big problem is that you still can't tell what's running local or express quickly. Yes the 1 and 6 are usually local but not always due to maintenance where trains swap tracks and start skipping stations you're expecting them to stop at.
The array of colors and single and double letters were the best thing about the subway back then.
I think all rush-hour express/limited stops service should have diamonds. That way, anyone who takes a slow minute to read the maps will know what and how the lines are running.
The powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line could definitely be brought back and the Diamond 8 for the express trains during the week days rush hours and the weekends the circle 8 powder blue. The Green circle 8 does not match with Lexington Avenue lines at all because there was never no green 8 until the R62AS R62S came out in the 80s and 90s. I love this video of what you did. You finally had the power blue 🔵 8 in there wich definitely needs to be brought back on the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line im telling you. I have definitely saw the Dubble letter trains. Like the AA CC RR FF GG QB SS .
the diamonds denote special rush ONLY service experess service (that typically operates in one direction). The 6&7 fall under that category and the F express should be on maps too. The Z would not be diamond because it's Skip-Stop not express
The (J) and (Z) both do run Express though. Between Marcy Avenue and Myrtle Avenue.
@@MysticTransit then yes the J should have a diamond component because the skip from Marcy to Myrtle counts as "part time supplementary express service". You are correct that the Z is express there.
Maybe im wrong but the Z never stops between Marcy or Myrtle so i wouldnt count it as *part time supplementary express service* which is what the diamond represents
Yes they had the purple 🟣 F and the pink QJ trains.
1:07 Why is the train numbered CB23??
I was wondering the same thing while I was editing this video. I'm not too sure. Maybe it was a test unit back in the day?
Diamond routes still qualify as Rush-Hour services, but only for peak-direction Express on those lines which still retain it, the and . Almost all the other non-Express diamonds have been abandoned, since those services mostly followed other Local lines but took different routes during Rush-Hour, and they no longer exist or were consolidated into other routes. Although there's still some relics of this peak/off-peak swapping pattern, such as the on WPR, or the on Concourse, when the (B) takes over Local service during Rush-Hour.
IMHO, if they deinterlined the system and brought back peak-direction Express service on lines like Jerome, West End, and Culver (south of Church Av), then we might see a resurgence of the Diamond designation for those services.
That can happen with only certain lines like Brighton and by doing that we can convert the Q into the N and with that we can have the Brighton Express designation as Your proposed map can also have the Culver line go to Staten Island the E would go to Coney Island and a new line called the K would go to Staten Island so we have Queend Blvd Express service and the F and M would go on 63rd St. By having the M use the Rockaway Beach Branch the A would only go to Far Rockaway while the C goes to Lefferts Blvd.
The deinterlined CPW would be having the A and C go Express and 8th Ave, while the B and D go local by reviving the 80s IND. resulting in the C going to the Bronx again but this time to Norwood.
A: Inwood 207th St to Far Rockaway
B: 168th St to Coney Island via Sea Beach
C: Norwood 205th St to Lefferts Blvd
D: 145th St to Bay Ridge 95th St (Rush Hours extended to Bedford Pk Blvd)
@@Reformperson that still introduces a slot-swap merger at 145 St between the A, B, C, and D. The 80's pattern you reference still had mixed Inwood and Concourse services on both CPW Local and Express. But if we differentiate 8 Av via CPW Express from 6 Av via CPW Local, then the slot-swapping at 145 St becomes redundant and would only reduce capacity.
To achieve 60 TPH on CPW, then all instances of slot-swapping must be eliminated. That means:
(A) Inwood to Lefferts Blvd or Far Rockaway via 8 Av, CPW, Fulton St Express
(B) Bedford Park Blvd or 145 St to Bay Ridge via 6 Av, 4 Av Express; CPW Local
(C) 168 St to Euclid Av via 8 Av, CPW Express; Fulton St Local
(D) Norwood to Coney via 6 Av, 4 Av Express; CPW, Sea Beach Local
There are crossovers on the upper level at 145 St that enable a *simple merge* (not a slot-swap merge) between the A and C onto CPW Express.
@@botmes4044 yeah but people perfer both branches express on CPW and since the A and C have higher ridership 30tph is good enough to time the merge after Euclid with CBTC, allowing the C to go to Lefferts Blvd while the A exclusively serves Far Rockaway as far as the B and D go it doesn’t matter where they go but I would keep the B going to Bay Ridge so that it can go to Concourse Yard. The C of course gets sent to Norwood.
With the Deinterlined map we can have this
A: Inwood to Far Rockaway
B: 145th St or BPB to Bay Ridge (Interchangeable with D)
C: Norwood to Lefferts Blvd
D: 168th St to Coney Island (Sea Beach) (Interchangeable with B)
A/C: CPW/8th Ave Express (30tph Combined)
B/D: 6th Ave Express/CPW Local (30tph Combined)
The A and C have the potential to go up to 36tph combined with the SAS taking the local tracks on Fulton.
@@Reformperson but the C doesn't have to go to Norwood if those riders could just transfer to both the A and C at 145 St, or across the platform at 125 St, especially if they're going all the way to Lower Manhattan. Merging the C with the B or D on Concourse would only serve to cap the capacity for those latter services at about 8 TPH, which then hampers capacity on 6 Av and 4 Av, but without any substantial journey time reductions for Concourse riders, especially considering that Concourse *Local* riders (B/D) would still have to transfer during Rush Hour regardless.
It's easier to have people move between trains, than to have trains move between tracks. Just because a certain corridor is more popular doesn't mean that trains from that corridor should be branched off to every possible terminus. Transfers allow trains to follow more simple paths without eliminating riders' access to *every path.* Preferring one-seat-rides seems to be a uniquely New York phenomenon, as other systems around the world are almost entirely deinterlined and so those riders are just more comfortable making quick transfers.
@@botmes4044 yeah but you can also route the B and D on Brighton absorbing the B into that way you can get 24tph on Brighton or even 30tph. This also can deinterline DeKalb with having the Q run on West End retaining most of the patterns having the Broadway line and 4th Ave line run 45tph. By doing this the Q can have peak direction express service with the local having 12tph which is an improvement of what West End Riders see today. With the designation we can have the C handle Concourse alone from Norwood to Lefferts Blvd and as I mentioned before it’s better for the A and C to get the express on CPW as they have higher ridership and by sending them in the express tracks which is where the tracks to CPW branch off of we can extend the E to Rosedale Francis Lewis Blvd to accommodate 18tph on the line handling the local service on its own, sincw WTC caps at 24tph, 18tph on the E is a massive improvement nonetheless. The Francis Lewis Blvd Station would be built adjacent to the Rosedale LIRR station as what would have to be done is have another track built on top of a parking lot where the platform would go, and then have tail tracks to turn more trains.
Deinterlined DeKalb
B: Absorbed into
D: 168th St to Coney Island or Brighton Beach
N: Unchanged
Q: 96th St to Coney Island (West End)
R: Unchanged
The real question is, should we be referring to lines by the color rather than the letter or the trunk?
referring to trunk lines is only really useful in Manhattan
I don't see no green 🍏 circle 8 no red circle 🔴 8 in no category because the 8 never ran on the 7th Ave lines no Lexington Avenue lines ether. As far as I saw on the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line footages I have seeing the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line ran by itself. I would definitely prefer the 8 powder blue 🔵 8 trunk third Avenue Elevated line. However I have seeing the powder blue 🔵 3 trains and the purple 🟣 4 and the gray 5 circle and the orange 🍊 6 trains back in the 70s and the 80s and 90s. The red circle 🔴 9 definitely fits on the 7th Ave lines and the 13 trains
They should probably change the Q line to turquoise to match the future 2nd Ave T line. This will help delineate the Q from the N, W (Am I going to 2nd Ave or Queens?)
The powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line had helped out the 2 5 trains and the BX 15A buses and the BX 28 bus and millions and millions of people on Thrid Avenue line . The 10 or the 12 trains will definitely help out the 6 Pelham line. The 11 would definitely help out the 7 Flushing line between 14 Street Hudson yards and 20 college point whitestone Queens elevated while the 7 Flushing line being extended to Bayterrence. The 13 trains could definitely help out the 1 Broadway line if they don't bring back the 9 trains.
I always refer to the lines by letter or number. I never pay attention to the colors.
When someone refers to the orange line, for example, I know they are not native New Yorkers.
Let’s gooo
I work on the bluuuuuuue 8th Avenue express
Cool
Oh wow
Diamonds are for peak direction express, which would require their to be a peak direction. Most subway lines are through running. They're just using F diamond because two trains per direction per day isn't worth taking a new letter and the Z train is skip stop nonsense not express or local.
Side Signs of the R-1 to R-9 had the letters A -H, single and double. R-40 and 42 had missed letters (P, U, X) in black. Since the beginning, A,C,E and doubles were 8av, B,D,F were 6av. AAs became Bs rush hour. ( Before Chrystie st, 34/6av, Bway -Lafayette, and 2Av were major terminals, also on the side signs). Always been CC, GG, LL(straight from '14'), RR(where I started in 1983). Too late for HH.(GG,LL,HH were super specific to their use, the HH came out of the abandoned Court st(now the Transit Museum) station to the Rockaways.) 5:01 The IND was kinda straightforward, but the BMT was a mess(JJ, RJ, MJ, QJ, T, TT, NX, QB, QT). Mind that it only has three physical ends: Astoria, Jamaica, and Coney Island. IND has four(207, Concourse, Queens, Fulton). IRT has a whopping five(Eastern Pkwy, Pelham, Westchester, Woodlawn, and Broadway) Yet they only have to decide to go up or down either east or west. I always told people to learn where the tracks go(they don't change), not so much the letters.
Trunk colors for the subway is much better than all train logos with different colors.
Exactly. With about 20 letters and 8 numbers in current use, that's 25-30 colors the printers and public would need to distinguish. There's no way to do that efficiently.
Its, not It's, but great video 🎉
The double letters confused the heck out of everyone.
I Live On The 6
I drive the 2/5 trains
You should definitely be disappointed right now because they have torn down the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line down in 1973. Another thing they have some footages of the Thrid Avenue Elevated line west farms structures . The 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line had definitely helped out the 2 5 trains and the BX 15A at that time. Some young people don't know about the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line. Yha they know about the 9 V trains and all of that good stuff. Only thing that's definitely missing right now is the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line wich had no business tairing down the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line down.
Car #2449 Door Is Almost Falling Off
The 8 line sounds too much like the A line, so it became the 9. It’s also why we don’t use H. An I would look too much like a 1, I think K is still reserved for the 8th Avenue line. I’m not sure why they don’t use O, but P is avoided for sanitary reasons “Go downstairs and take a P.” T will be the 2nd Avenue line if we live long enough to see it get to Phase 3. U sounds too much like “You” which might be confusing, “whaddya mean take a me?” “Not you, U!” V is the same as K, but for the 6th avenue line, X was actually on the old roll signs, but that was used for trains with no passengers I believe. Y is the same as U, “which train goes to ____” “Y” “Why? None of your business why!”
P, U and Y can still be used, even if it sounds like a word.
While I agree with most of your points, I have to say, the 8 never became the 9. The 8 was the old 3rd Avenue El, and the 9 was once the Dyre shuttle designation before it was replaced by the 5. Yes, the K and V are reserved for 8th and 6th Avenues. The MTA does in fact use H. (H)owever, it is only for internal designations for the Rockaway Park Shuttle.
Diamond services mean peak express WITHOUT an alternate local service. This means they're used when the line of the same name is providing the same local service. That's why the 6, 7, and F have diamond express services and not the 5, D, and J/Z, because their local alternates are the 2, B, and M, respectively.
This video should also go more in depth, there actually was an online presentation by the NY Transit Museum explaining why the lines got their colours. Basically the trunk adopted the colour of the service that ran the longest length, hence why the 2, A, and N never changed colours, they make the longest trips on their trunk lines. 6th Avenue was originally supposed to be purple and Flushing orange but because blue and purple don't contrast enough, considering 6th and 8th Avenue lines interline a lot, it was decided to put 6th Avenue as orange so they contrast on the maps and signage, and by default, Flushing went orange. L was black and got lightened to grey, J/Z were brown when that colour became available, G was already green and got lightened to lime green to contrast with Lex trains.
Here's the full video
czcams.com/video/qQ3K-B3pKgI/video.html
i’m upset that F and M swap is not happening. what are your thoughts?
It's a good thing it isn't happening. I do wish the M ran to Forest Hills weekends as well as weekdays.
@@thedriver4038 why do you believe it’s a good thing?
Confused 😐 information ℹ️ 😮😮😮 4:40
The video was informative but I already know most of this stuff already
k thanks for your insights
Let’s go back to what these lines should be:
🔴 lines are full time daily service 24/7
🔲 lines should be part time service, meaning trains only operate 19/7
🔶 lines are peak hour operations
🛑 lines operate weekdays only.
Same way as it is on bus maps from 2010 & beyond
First.
(The colors Mason, what do they mean?!)
good for you 😃
(R) Train!!!
There should be a “I” “O” (P) (T) (U) (X) (Y) and (0) train (8) train
The T trains is definitely coming back when they finish phase 5 going to East Harlem and west side across 125 street to connect to the 1 Broadway line. I'm definitely glad you added the powder blue 🔵 8 in there because the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line never sleeps. No matter how much they demolisheig the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line or discontinueing the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line down. The 8 will never go away I tell you that right now. Adleast you had sence enough show the powder blue 🔵 8 and the dubble letters in there.
The zero is the 42nd street shuttle since the segment that it serves is the remainder of the original IRT subway
The T was pick out as one of the four letters to serve the BMT Broadway line and the west end line, this was between 1960 and 1967 while the TT was used as a west end shuttle, they were replace by the B train in Brooklyn while the EE took over the main line, it was going to be use to serve the second avenue subway and this was going to be confirmed in the current plan. Prior to that, it was going to be revive in the 80s to serve the lower portion of the Nassau street line and the west end line but did not happen.
I and I were never used because it would be confused as the number digits like 0 and 1, P was prevented from being used as a joke humor while the original tension was to have assigned to the Culver line which was already taken over by today's F and G, U and Y would confused with sounds of the actual words and there is no known if the K,X,V,8 and 9 would be use in the future and double letters were dropped due to how the system have turned out with routes after unification have utilize portions of lines with no pure local or express service and double digits 10,11,12 and 13 were signage seen on the r62 car fleet but not use as they've would operate in a similar matter to J/Z peak hour service
who actually owns path lines.
The PANYNJ
Now imagine if the A division has double numbers
Well, there are spare route bullets on the rollsigns on the R62A cars...
Proposals
(Z) loses skip stop and becomes
goes on maps
D express on concourse is
These fools today still won't pay attention tion
3:55 love the tiny F