When you read Xavier's thoughts on Scott, I remembered how comics were written when I was a kid. How heroes were written to inspire readers, and weren't just weaponized political caricatures. Those were nice words, ma boi.
I still have my original copy of this. If you're not touched by Jean using her powers so her wheelchair-bound father figure can dance with her, you aren't a human being.
Someone the other day asked me “why do you like cyclops? Aren’t his powers lame?” And I think that sums up what a lot of people misunderstand about storytelling. People think a good story is when two overpowered characters fight. But Cyclops isn’t the Hulk, but he was interesting because he was well written. At least he was at one point. Each X-Man had a unique perspective and background with personalities that were reflective of real life, and it made for interesting character dynamics and stories. While the X-Men has its fair share of powerhouse grudge matches, it also had some vary human moments. And that’s what it’s missing today, that kind of real bond among the characters, and tries to rely on the reader already knowing character’s past stories, when they were more interesting. All we have left is caricatures of the heroes they used to be.
I liked the clone plotline but to explain away putting Scott and Jean back together they started to destroy Madelyn. Then they made an excuse for Madelyn's spark to have to be taken by Jean. As much as I like the Jean/Scott wedding... It upsets me how One True Pairing they treated Jean and Scott, just to have them together, to the point they had to sabotage the relationship. Maddie started acting decidedly out of character when they changed their mind on letting Scott have his happy ending with Maddie.
The Law, I disagree strongly with your point of view. Maddie was the one who had him and who raised him a good chunk of time until she "died". Calling Jean Grey Cable's real mother is *disqualifying* the care Maddie did before she died. Jean is a step-mother, Maddie the biological mother who though no fault of her own did not get to raise her son the rest of the time and Scott was the primary caretaker. Jean was actually really awkward with Nate and she does better with him as an adult. I own the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. Poor Maddie deserves to not be treated like a ghost character even if Marvel insists on trying.
What Marvel did to Cyclops is just criminal. I haven't bought an X-men comic in quite a while now. Call me crazy, but I can't really comprehend the thought of an X-men comic without Cyclops.
Without cyclops and Jean Grey the X-Men are basically rudderless. It’s a shame what has happened to this once great line. I cannot read anymore X-Men books since Cyclops’ death. It feels like these new writers have not done their homework and reading past issues or they just don’t give a damn.
Jean Grey at that time was so beautiful. The exchange between her and her daughter from an alternate timeline was breathtaking. Two fine redheads andI have a thing for redheads
The problem with "I love comics" is not that it isn't objectionable, but that it takes no effort to support; what (back in my day) used to be called "skin in the game." There are no stakes risked by saying "I love comics," and there are no consequences to ignoring it. Move the needle is about literally putting your money where your good-comics-loving mouth is. Put up or shut up. Get skin in the game. Move the needle.
X-Men have been "bent" WAAAY too far for me. Wolverine's got a TERRIBLE origin, Iceman's gay and out of character, 50, 000 X-sub characters that are indescernable between one another, Brubakers SHITTY storyline, the Original Five pointlessly being in the present and SOO MUCH more has ended a 35 year run for me. X-Men picked up where Return of the Jedi left off for me but died BEFORE the sequel trilogy ruined Star Wars for me. What's left to enjoy now?
you know nothing jon snowden You can tell that there's a "hole" in the writing in Origin where Dog is concerned. If Origin was worth a damn, WHY did Bill Jemas get fired, Quesada turned into a "yes man" and Paul Jenkins is RARELY ever given work at Marvel?
C. Costa it’s like a horrible cross between boring reality and minimalist cartoony fake Disney. (Tumblr style) Manga styles have more uniqueness - and more appeal, even if they are unrealistic. I used read the John K blog (the creepy Ren and stimpy creator). He writes in depth about ‘appeal’ for cartoony styles. I’d recommend if ur interested.
I have the original issue, it's a nice story. Part of why I don't care for post 2000's X-Men is the way the marriage ended, just like with Spider-man, Scott's my favorite character and knowing what he did leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
One of the best parts of the old X-Men comics are the soap opera elements. The fact that these characters have deep and emotional interactions w/ one another. SWJs aren't capable of writing truthful human interactions because their ideas and thoughts are all very shallow.
You're awesome, Rich. Yeah dude that is indeed a fantastic issue. You made a point in a previous video about how many younglings today will never know anything except bad comics because we've been getting low quality books for so long now. I feel like this is most egregious with the X-Men, because all that old school stuff from Claremont, Lobdell, Louise Simonson, and Nicieza was golden. Unfortunately, a lot of new fans have only been exposed to the movies and the Bendis, Guggenheim, Taylor garbage which features none of the deep characterization, intricate long-running sub-plots, nor the morality of the issues we grew up on. The X-Men used to be highest selling comic on the stands and it was the gateway drug that got everyone hooked on superhero comics in the first place. Now it's just another silly billy omg so random SJW lame fest.
I suppose, my friend. I just couldn't handle all the stuttering dialogue, dumbed-down heroes, more homosexual X-Men, and a character named Goldballs. Bendis is amateur hour in my opinion.
Eh, to each their own. Keep in mind that I've only read Bendis' Uncanny X-Men run and not his All-New X-Men run. I certainly found Bendis' Uncanny X-Men to be much better than his Avengers run, which I consider to be an okay read.
Btw, your love of the X-men really shines through in this review. It shows where your heart is. This is what we are backing, the love of powerful, spell-binding stories that stand up as classics ( and those who love the power of stories that cut to the heart of the human experience). Mazeltov, Zack!
Perfect timing with the soon to be released Batman and Catwoman wedding coming up...and if you saw the splash/ad at the end of DC 1000... you know it not going to be a normal wedding; case in point gimmicks Joker-style. But anything to stop the wedding...but I would prefer realistic circumstances between the two of them, than third party gimmicky influences.
To the 8 year old first witnessing this it must be mind boggling! Oh who am I kidding, adults too! Too much of this time traveling and dimensional merging has muddled the template too far.
Interesting add on, his name is Nathan because that's Sinister's first name, Sinister's full name is Nathaniel Essex, and he planted the name Nathan in Maddie's mind.
Athan Nyx - my specific point regarding cable: his surname is not "Grey". He is not Jean Grey's son. If the writer's want to ignore his proper surname and go Matrolineal, then it would be Nathan Pryor.
He has the Grey gene and Maddie is Jean's clone. So in theory one can actually argue Grey. In practice, however, it would be Pryor if we did matriarchal and Sinister would insist on that actually. It's why X-man, Nathaniel Grey, has the last name Grey. In Age of Apocalypse, Cable's equivalent was directly engineered rather than Sinister just trying to find a use for a clone. That's also why he has the expanded name of Nathaniel rather than Nathan. But since both Rachel and Nathan have Scott Summers as a father they are both Summers.
An entire book essentially devoted to heterosexuality and an actual family. I'm not sure if modern Marvel would be enraged by this or just confused. I can imagine a lot of robotic "Does Not Compute" looks in their next meeting.
The X-books of the 90s and very early 2000s were the peak of Marvel. Wonderful stuff. I stopped reading all comics mid 00s. Something just changed and I couldn’t quite put my finger on it, but I found I related less and less to all the stuff Marvel was pushing out that I didn’t care anymore.
I hated when Joss Whedon made Professor X evil just to virtue signal what a feminist he is. And not temporarily evil or possessed, but just literally amoral.
Joss Whedon wrote him that way. He was doing unethical shit with AI for the greater good. It's not even worth thinking about. It was all Joss Whedon trying to stick it to the patriarchy so he could bang his ho's without feeling guilty for cheating on his wife who probably reminds him of his overbearing mother.
It's one of the major things that bugged my friend. Yes Charles Xavier is manipulative. He has done questionable things. But they have always been for the good of the team and the world. That is the main reason why he has never come off as villainous. We have seen him be a top puppetmaster to protect his family and his dream. That is admireable. Joss Whedon missed the whole point of that.
Onslaught was a combination of the imprint of Magneto's psyche and Xavier's guilt over completely shutting his friend who saved his life down. At least initially. I'm not aware if there were any retcons. So point to evil before Joss. Also it wasn't exactly Xavier himself.
Chris Claremont, Scott Lobdell, Whilce Portactio, Andy and Adam Kubert, Fabian Nicieza, Todd McFarlane, Jim Shooter... I forget the other names that made the x-series and Marvel what it was during my late grade school and early high school days. I still have the original copy of X-Men 30, and it is one simple masterpiece. I happily saved up my allowance every month for Marvel titles, and even gained a circle of friends through this hobby. My son stumbled upon my collection of comics like Infinity Gauntlet, Dark Phoenix, X-cutioner's Song, Fatal Attractions and Age of Apocalypse with some issues of Captain Marvel (the Kree warrior), Captain America, Thor/Thunderstrike, Spiderman, and Iron Man. He was then interested in starting his own collection so we went to the local comics distributor here in the PH (Filbar's). Marvel once brought its readers to a world they want to go. Manga does this as well, that's why they never fail. They bring what the audiences want. In rare cases of Gwen Stacey or Jean Grey, they got reactions from readers but eventually were able to make those events necessary to the character development or storyline. There was sense; there was purpose. As a young reader then, it helped me understand that changes do happen whether we like it or not and that is life. I was so disappointed with how the new people basically ruined all these characters and what they stood for, just because they can. Gender swapping, race changing, tribalism, shallowness - the world where once readers can broaden their imagination, or see characters overcome challenges and come out to be better or handle real/relatable hardships is now effectively gone. Nothing is inspiring or understandable in Marvel Comics anymore - not the storyline, not the artwork, not the purpose, not even the people behind it. What is happening with Marvel? They used to put out titles that everyone can relate to, even to young people back then as far as in SE Asia. Are you Americans still fine over there? Now Marvel is forcing people to go to a world no one wants to be in. There's nothing that makes sense in it. Hydra Captain America? Just why? Shock value? What's the sense of having a hero created to fight Nazis and Communists turn into one? Jack Kirby would probably kick these people out, if he could. Female Thor? Black Iron woman? Crazy Cyclops? I'm at a loss as what titles are good now, to be honest. We just went home empty-handed.
I had this run from 1a,b,c and d but not e all the way to about 35. At the time I considered the wedding the low point in the story, probably due to my age at the time. Now compared to comics these days it’s a god damn masterpiece! That said we all get sentimental with age. They make such a beautiful couple, poor Wolverine. Jean’s dance with Professor X. (Wipes away tears). Got me right in the feels.
Oh Logan had his point around the wedding... As hard as it was he wanted Jean to be happy. i0.wp.com/www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IMG_2101.jpg?resize=1024%2C620
I bought this issue when it came out and wow, did it floor me. Looking back at it now and given everything the characters have been through since it's nice to remember when we once believed these two could be happy. It's true they were sometimes derided as "Ken and Barbie" mutants, but it was their shared trauma that was the point.
The first X-Men comic I ever bought was Uncanny X-Men 303, and X-Men 30 was only a few months after that. We had the holocover Fatal Attractions, where Magneto ripped Wolverine's adamantium out. Wolverine at this point had devolved into a more bestial appearance with bone claws.
Stories, art, characters, everything was beautiful, total opposite of what SJW's Marvel is now. I'm glad I kept all those comics so I can read it again and again and never ever give any money to PC culture ;)
Ororo and t'challa was actually set up by claremont himself iirc, in one of the "classic x-men" short stories, and I think priest's black panther touched up on their relationship as well. They weren't exactly madly in love, but there was at least some sexual tension in their interactions
Bought the original back in the day, still one of my favourite X-Men books. The talent in the writing and art show earnest care and reverence for the X-Men family. Keep reminding Marvel of what it needs to revive - giving a shit about it`s characters.
Reminds of the era I loved comics and bought tons of them every week. I stopped in 92 when I joined the military. But the comics then were really good most of the time.
Curious, what did you guys think of the X-Men animated series episode of Scott and Jean's wedding? The comic is really strong but I can appreciate the difference presented between versions.
I liked it. I felt bad for Logan ("tell Cyke I made 'im a convertible") but I was mad with him at the same time- dude, she chose Scott, lick your wounds and move on. I was very irked by how the comics and the show had him pining over her long after the fact. Storm's better for him anyway :-)
Hey zac, random question. Would you ever consider doing portfolio reviews? It would be nice for people trying to start out to get feedback from someone who knows what they’re talking about. Also it would be funny if you could show that fans can do better art/storytelling than some of the “pros”. I know EVS used to do them, but he’s only done one or two since he switched to Star Wars, and the last one was “the death of rose”. If you’re not interested, no worries. Portfolio reviews are just very helpful and interesting for people that want to make comics but are still amateurs.
Remember those silly yet cool "Swimsuit Editions" from the 90's? Today they'd make "Bake and Binge Sleepover No-Straight-boys allowed" Editions. Drawn like $%*!
The quality of stuff like this just makes me sad because of the current state of comics and the X-Men. Absolutely superficial nonsense. Characters not acting like each other. No heterosexuality. No real friendship and respect for one another. It hurts, man.
Le current year: "Black trans midget cyclops marries crossdresing man-phoenix" As it was: Storm and Jean were "Clairmont Close" for a while, with Psylocke openly angling for Scott. So the X-men are family except for all the implied sex going on.
is there a check list of this "True Believers" line or reprints? i'm planning to pick some up. Marvel should be putting those out on check stands in grocery stores and all, not just LCS. around here, I don't see them.
Good to know I'm not the only one that's been buying the True Believers books (the good ones anyway). This was one of the most interesting moments in the X books back then, and honestly haven't consistently read any of them since early 2000s. I kinda stopped when there were so many X-Men books it was harder to keep track, and nowadays the people writing them have no understanding of the characters. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this one.
Man...seeing today how these characters were treated (Scott transformed into a villain which murdered your mentor, Xavier vandalized, etc.) make me very sad... Certain "core" aspects of a character should be mantained, in my opinion...you could change the place, time, even the situation, but there are a thing which we know like "classic", and just who follows comics a long time knows... and one of these, is the Jean&Scott relationship...
Someone has probably already said it, but Rachel Summers/Grey is the daughter of an alternate timeline Jean Grey where the Phoenix didn't kill herself, Cable is Madeleine Pryor's son. She has a very complicated family tree... although the Shiar made it less complicated by killing her entire family.
I remember during the Xmen 90s cartoon, they actually had an alternate Future (where Xavier has been murdered before creating the Xmen) and they actually shipped Logan and Storm. That was an interesting pairing. Also sent them back to the past (50's?) and hang out in a diner with young Xavier and some others. Had Logan and Storm get cozy with each other and the diner owner freak out on them because of they're different races. Not because of the Mutant thing. Honestly, old cartoons managed to deal with Racial prejudices a lot better than current comics/other media.
Actually, Rachel Summers (At least up to the late 90s... any retcon after that, I couldn't tell you) is Scott and Jean's daughter. Whereas Cable is Scott and Madelyn's son. Aw man, on the two page spread from 7:25 to 11:24... they didn't keep the topless Domino. Great issue though. Fabian Nicieza was definitely performing a lost art.
I get the whole gay thing in marvel comics - the most popular ‘ships’ on tumblr are gay (idk if Zack knows what a ‘ship’ is in fandom context - it’s a romantic pairing a fandom makes art/fanfics around) Marvel thinks having gay characters equates to fandoms. But they missed the mark on how to make a fandom around a ship. The most common pairings tend to be characters who interact negatively towards each other with opposite personalities- it’s why batmanXJoker is popular. When the lesbians instantly like each other and their is no conflict and no chemistry, no one will care whether or not they get together, fans won’t make fanart or fanfics because they have little storytelling source material (conflict and chemistry) to work with. Also the most popular ‘ships’ on tumblr tend to be ‘handsome straight white rich male’ x ‘handsome straight white rich male’ (professor x and magneto from xmen first class)I knows it’s very ironic, I’d love to psychoanalyse a fanfic writer. Miraculous Ladybug is an example of a tumblr fandom that had many lesbians ‘ships’ - the most popular lesbian ‘ship’ is between the sweet main character and the snobby bitch. Writing female characters with diverse personality’s and opinions makes character conflict more interesting, it makes it more cathartic when they reconcile - so reconciliation would be they get together romantically. The writers at marvel are currently incapable at writing diverse female characters with conflict. So they will never get a big fandom surrounding their characters.
Your point about wanting to go back, but can't, is why I've stopped reading Marvel comics. X-Men will never be the same. Too much has happened that cannot be fixed without a reboot, and a reboot capturing that feel is like trying to extract a teardrop you cried into the ocean. It can be done, but the odds of doing it are astronomical.
Wow, this was back when I enjoyed X-men. You're right though, X-men used to be a giant, slightly dysfunctional but rock solid family drama. Right now it's just a big mess of crossover event fallout and truly annoying characters.
I own a collection. I love this issue. I reread this so often. Add on: Also Jubilee started out having issues with the wedding in the previous issue which was kind of cute even though I don't like Jubilee.
Actually I preferred the wedding of Rick Jones and Marlow in the Incredible Hulk during the Peter David era. It was a more interesting story. Rachel is the daughter of Cyclops and Phoenix, where as Cable is the son of Madelyne Pryor and Cyclops. But yes the stories were better than and they had a diverse group of heroes. It's a shame that the sentimentality of the 90's was dumped on by the SJW stories of the past 5 years.
Would benefit from using the scans of the comic to show pages and not a... Go pro? Or cell phone or whatever you used one handed to record this. That combined with a bit of editing would really make this video shine
It’s actually amazing to see adult characters talk and act like adults.
I am sure if SJW's looked at this issue, their faces would melt like the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Dragon Fire
They'll scream "hetero!!!" & then explode.
When you read Xavier's thoughts on Scott, I remembered how comics were written when I was a kid. How heroes were written to inspire readers, and weren't just weaponized political caricatures. Those were nice words, ma boi.
Silly person. Heroes aren't meant to inspire, they're there to prop up the writer's social agenda. Welcome to [current year].
Awwww, Rogue catching the bouquet, Gambit catching the garter. This really takes me back. Damn, I miss this era.
I still have my original copy of this.
If you're not touched by Jean using her powers so her wheelchair-bound father figure can dance with her, you aren't a human being.
I was in love with Jean Grey when i was a kid, now i hate the modern Jean Grey and pretty much every X-Men. They destroyed those characters.
Morrison butchered the character
SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT !
Someone the other day asked me “why do you like cyclops? Aren’t his powers lame?” And I think that sums up what a lot of people misunderstand about storytelling. People think a good story is when two overpowered characters fight. But Cyclops isn’t the Hulk, but he was interesting because he was well written. At least he was at one point. Each X-Man had a unique perspective and background with personalities that were reflective of real life, and it made for interesting character dynamics and stories. While the X-Men has its fair share of powerhouse grudge matches, it also had some vary human moments. And that’s what it’s missing today, that kind of real bond among the characters, and tries to rely on the reader already knowing character’s past stories, when they were more interesting. All we have left is caricatures of the heroes they used to be.
How are optic blasts that can level buildings a lame powerset?
It's lame compared to Alex Summers and some other power sets. I like them. Also those people have not heard of Blob obviously.
I never thought Cyclops' powers were lame.
I said lame compared to because I don't either. They are pretty cool. Now Blob has some somewhat lame powers.
I still don't see how optic blasts can be considered lame compared to other powersets.
Rachel is actually Jean’s daughter from an alternate future. Cable is Maddy’s kid from our timeline.
Never forget Madelyn Pryor. Whose life was tragic and who was quite a good partner for Scott until they decided to destroy her.
I liked the clone plotline but to explain away putting Scott and Jean back together they started to destroy Madelyn. Then they made an excuse for Madelyn's spark to have to be taken by Jean. As much as I like the Jean/Scott wedding... It upsets me how One True Pairing they treated Jean and Scott, just to have them together, to the point they had to sabotage the relationship. Maddie started acting decidedly out of character when they changed their mind on letting Scott have his happy ending with Maddie.
The Law, I disagree strongly with your point of view. Maddie was the one who had him and who raised him a good chunk of time until she "died". Calling Jean Grey Cable's real mother is *disqualifying* the care Maddie did before she died. Jean is a step-mother, Maddie the biological mother who though no fault of her own did not get to raise her son the rest of the time and Scott was the primary caretaker. Jean was actually really awkward with Nate and she does better with him as an adult. I own the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix.
Poor Maddie deserves to not be treated like a ghost character even if Marvel insists on trying.
What Marvel did to Cyclops is just criminal. I haven't bought an X-men comic in quite a while now.
Call me crazy, but I can't really comprehend the thought of an X-men comic without Cyclops.
Jacen Roger Agreed. And it honestly feels like the X-Men have lost direction since his death.
I refuse to read the newer comics without Scott. I have been staying in my bubble of older comics with Scott
You're not crazy. Cyclops is the face of the X-Men.
Jacen Roger The X-Men NEED to be outlaws in order to stay relevant, really.
Without cyclops and Jean Grey the X-Men are basically rudderless. It’s a shame what has happened to this once great line. I cannot read anymore X-Men books since Cyclops’ death. It feels like these new writers have not done their homework and reading past issues or they just don’t give a damn.
X-Men used to be such a great book...now Koreans use it to wrap fish.
That's oddly specific.
I remember when that issue came out I could not believe what I was seeing.
The cover was something I will never forget in the years to come.
Love 90’s X-Men so much.
The 90's had some AMAZING storylines, dude.
Yes, they did. The 90s don't get enough love.
Jean Grey at that time was so beautiful. The exchange between her and her daughter from an alternate timeline was breathtaking. Two fine redheads andI have a thing for redheads
X-Men is a soap opera with superpowers. And we need more of that back.
The Doktor spider-man as well
Just look at Peter's life.
Our soap operas back in the 90's were Xmen, Spiderman and WWE.
Political correctness and SJW's ruined WWE so hard.
WWF, you mean. Let's not forget WCW, and ECW.
Jean Gentry it's been burned into my brain now. But yeah, WWF, WCW, and ECW were the shit back then.
The problem with "I love comics" is not that it isn't objectionable, but that it takes no effort to support; what (back in my day) used to be called "skin in the game."
There are no stakes risked by saying "I love comics," and there are no consequences to ignoring it. Move the needle is about literally putting your money where your good-comics-loving mouth is.
Put up or shut up.
Get skin in the game.
Move the needle.
Heterosexuality... is the answer??
X-Men have been "bent" WAAAY too far for me. Wolverine's got a TERRIBLE origin, Iceman's gay and out of character, 50, 000 X-sub characters that are indescernable between one another, Brubakers SHITTY storyline, the Original Five pointlessly being in the present and SOO MUCH more has ended a 35 year run for me. X-Men picked up where Return of the Jedi left off for me but died BEFORE the sequel trilogy ruined Star Wars for me. What's left to enjoy now?
What's wrong with Wolverines' origin currently? I haven't seen an issue with any of it that I've read.
I like Wolverine Origin and I like the Sabretooth stuff. Everything else I agree with.
Just go back and read the 80/90s X-Men
Commander Spyder Wolverine SHOULD'NT HAVE a origin. ESPECIALLY one that turns him into Laura Ingles-Wilder.
you know nothing jon snowden You can tell that there's a "hole" in the writing in Origin where Dog is concerned. If Origin was worth a damn, WHY did Bill Jemas get fired, Quesada turned into a "yes man" and Paul Jenkins is RARELY ever given work at Marvel?
I remember that literally every other comic I read in the early ‘90s was written by Nicieza. Why he’s not a major player in the industry is beyond me.
I love 90's X-men so much...this video actually made me sad knowing Marvel has destroyed what I love.
Andreii they were like the Gallagher family from shameless if they had superpowers
I know. EVERYTHING I LOVED IS BEING RUINED!
Heterosexuality overload. Triggered.
crazymaner2003
Breeders!!!!
Hey, remember when women had boobs?
I do.
"Do you, black, take this black, to be your lawfully wedded black?"
This book represents the Marvel I used to know... This Marvel is dead.
The drawing was so different from todays. When did marvel comics become so cartoonish?
blableka sometimes I think theyre trying to simulate manga.
C. Costa it’s like a horrible cross between boring reality and minimalist cartoony fake Disney. (Tumblr style)
Manga styles have more uniqueness - and more appeal, even if they are unrealistic.
I used read the John K blog (the creepy Ren and stimpy creator). He writes in depth about ‘appeal’ for cartoony styles. I’d recommend if ur interested.
I have the original issue, it's a nice story. Part of why I don't care for post 2000's X-Men is the way the marriage ended, just like with Spider-man, Scott's my favorite character and knowing what he did leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
One of the best parts of the old X-Men comics are the soap opera elements. The fact that these characters have deep and emotional interactions w/ one another. SWJs aren't capable of writing truthful human interactions because their ideas and thoughts are all very shallow.
You're awesome, Rich. Yeah dude that is indeed a fantastic issue. You made a point in a previous video about how many younglings today will never know anything except bad comics because we've been getting low quality books for so long now. I feel like this is most egregious with the X-Men, because all that old school stuff from Claremont, Lobdell, Louise Simonson, and Nicieza was golden. Unfortunately, a lot of new fans have only been exposed to the movies and the Bendis, Guggenheim, Taylor garbage which features none of the deep characterization, intricate long-running sub-plots, nor the morality of the issues we grew up on. The X-Men used to be highest selling comic on the stands and it was the gateway drug that got everyone hooked on superhero comics in the first place. Now it's just another silly billy omg so random SJW lame fest.
Hey, I actually liked Bendis' run on Uncanny X-Men.
Well, there's no accounting for taste, my friend. :-)
Fair enough. It helps that Bendis wrote Cyclops in a sympathetic light.
I suppose, my friend. I just couldn't handle all the stuttering dialogue, dumbed-down heroes, more homosexual X-Men, and a character named Goldballs. Bendis is amateur hour in my opinion.
Eh, to each their own. Keep in mind that I've only read Bendis' Uncanny X-Men run and not his All-New X-Men run. I certainly found Bendis' Uncanny X-Men to be much better than his Avengers run, which I consider to be an okay read.
Is that Kitty Pryde and Jean Grey getting married on the cover?
Fabian Nicieza was great! Loved his writing on Cable and Deadpool
Btw, your love of the X-men really shines through in this review. It shows where your heart is. This is what we are backing, the love of powerful, spell-binding stories that stand up as classics ( and those who love the power of stories that cut to the heart of the human experience). Mazeltov, Zack!
Screw sjw marvel
Perfect timing with the soon to be released Batman and Catwoman wedding coming up...and if you saw the splash/ad at the end of DC 1000... you know it not going to be a normal wedding; case in point gimmicks Joker-style.
But anything to stop the wedding...but I would prefer realistic circumstances between the two of them, than third party gimmicky influences.
Rachel is Jean 's. Cable is Madelyn's.
Which is why his name is Nathan Summers. Jean Grey had no connection.
To the 8 year old first witnessing this it must be mind boggling! Oh who am I kidding, adults too! Too much of this time traveling and dimensional merging has muddled the template too far.
I was going to the comments to correct this as soon as I heard it but someone beat me to it. Glad I'm not the only one to notice.
Interesting add on, his name is Nathan because that's Sinister's first name, Sinister's full name is Nathaniel Essex, and he planted the name Nathan in Maddie's mind.
Athan Nyx - my specific point regarding cable: his surname is not "Grey". He is not Jean Grey's son. If the writer's want to ignore his proper surname and go Matrolineal, then it would be Nathan Pryor.
He has the Grey gene and Maddie is Jean's clone. So in theory one can actually argue Grey. In practice, however, it would be Pryor if we did matriarchal and Sinister would insist on that actually. It's why X-man, Nathaniel Grey, has the last name Grey. In Age of Apocalypse, Cable's equivalent was directly engineered rather than Sinister just trying to find a use for a clone. That's also why he has the expanded name of Nathaniel rather than Nathan.
But since both Rachel and Nathan have Scott Summers as a father they are both Summers.
I shed a tear from my genderfluid eye. FeelsGoodMan
this video made me go to my doctor and get some antidepressant medication!!!!
An entire book essentially devoted to heterosexuality and an actual family. I'm not sure if modern Marvel would be enraged by this or just confused. I can imagine a lot of robotic "Does Not Compute" looks in their next meeting.
lol! I got an ad for Pepsi right before this video.
TigermaskenRH PEPSIMAN!
TigermaskenRH no sunny d ad?
Jerome woods unfortunately not but then again I don't think they have Sunny D in Sweden.
I found this last month in a 50 cent bin. Had to pick it up (the actual issue, not the reprint)
CruderQuotient1
You saved a masterpiece from oblivion. You're doing good work.
Gabriel Boorom hes doing gods work
The X-books of the 90s and very early 2000s were the peak of Marvel. Wonderful stuff. I stopped reading all comics mid 00s. Something just changed and I couldn’t quite put my finger on it, but I found I related less and less to all the stuff Marvel was pushing out that I didn’t care anymore.
The way you described it, it sounded like you were really choking up reading these.
It was really beautiful.
"It's the Olympics of heterosexuality." I don't think I'll look at my wedding day the same way ever again...
Norm Lenhart Yeah, but my wife won the bronze at best.
i want my marvel comics the way i want my women: pseudo ironic lesbians watching youtube videos
king mob
😳 okay...
Gabriel Boorom I can’t even understand what he is saying.
dimoned123
Must be an in-joke...
Gabriel Boorom to be honest I don’t think I even want to know what means.
I hated when Joss Whedon made Professor X evil just to virtue signal what a feminist he is. And not temporarily evil or possessed, but just literally amoral.
Dragon Smith Wha- I must have missed something, Prof is evil?
Joss Whedon wrote him that way. He was doing unethical shit with AI for the greater good. It's not even worth thinking about. It was all Joss Whedon trying to stick it to the patriarchy so he could bang his ho's without feeling guilty for cheating on his wife who probably reminds him of his overbearing mother.
It's one of the major things that bugged my friend. Yes Charles Xavier is manipulative. He has done questionable things. But they have always been for the good of the team and the world. That is the main reason why he has never come off as villainous. We have seen him be a top puppetmaster to protect his family and his dream. That is admireable.
Joss Whedon missed the whole point of that.
Haha, remember Onslaught?
Onslaught was a combination of the imprint of Magneto's psyche and Xavier's guilt over completely shutting his friend who saved his life down. At least initially. I'm not aware if there were any retcons. So point to evil before Joss. Also it wasn't exactly Xavier himself.
Chris Claremont, Scott Lobdell, Whilce Portactio, Andy and Adam Kubert, Fabian Nicieza, Todd McFarlane, Jim Shooter... I forget the other names that made the x-series and Marvel what it was during my late grade school and early high school days. I still have the original copy of X-Men 30, and it is one simple masterpiece. I happily saved up my allowance every month for Marvel titles, and even gained a circle of friends through this hobby.
My son stumbled upon my collection of comics like Infinity Gauntlet, Dark Phoenix, X-cutioner's Song, Fatal Attractions and Age of Apocalypse with some issues of Captain Marvel (the Kree warrior), Captain America, Thor/Thunderstrike, Spiderman, and Iron Man. He was then interested in starting his own collection so we went to the local comics distributor here in the PH (Filbar's).
Marvel once brought its readers to a world they want to go. Manga does this as well, that's why they never fail. They bring what the audiences want. In rare cases of Gwen Stacey or Jean Grey, they got reactions from readers but eventually were able to make those events necessary to the character development or storyline. There was sense; there was purpose. As a young reader then, it helped me understand that changes do happen whether we like it or not and that is life.
I was so disappointed with how the new people basically ruined all these characters and what they stood for, just because they can. Gender swapping, race changing, tribalism, shallowness - the world where once readers can broaden their imagination, or see characters overcome challenges and come out to be better or handle real/relatable hardships is now effectively gone. Nothing is inspiring or understandable in Marvel Comics anymore - not the storyline, not the artwork, not the purpose, not even the people behind it.
What is happening with Marvel? They used to put out titles that everyone can relate to, even to young people back then as far as in SE Asia.
Are you Americans still fine over there?
Now Marvel is forcing people to go to a world no one wants to be in. There's nothing that makes sense in it. Hydra Captain America? Just why? Shock value? What's the sense of having a hero created to fight Nazis and Communists turn into one? Jack Kirby would probably kick these people out, if he could. Female Thor? Black Iron woman? Crazy Cyclops?
I'm at a loss as what titles are good now, to be honest. We just went home empty-handed.
I had this run from 1a,b,c and d but not e all the way to about 35. At the time I considered the wedding the low point in the story, probably due to my age at the time. Now compared to comics these days it’s a god damn masterpiece! That said we all get sentimental with age.
They make such a beautiful couple, poor Wolverine. Jean’s dance with Professor X. (Wipes away tears). Got me right in the feels.
Oh Logan had his point around the wedding... As hard as it was he wanted Jean to be happy.
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It has been a long time since comic dialogue has almost made me cry. And I have no heart, so crying is a big deal.
I legit don't think I can ever go back to buying X-books. That breaks my heart.
I bought this issue when it came out and wow, did it floor me. Looking back at it now and given everything the characters have been through since it's nice to remember when we once believed these two could be happy. It's true they were sometimes derided as "Ken and Barbie" mutants, but it was their shared trauma that was the point.
The first X-Men comic I ever bought was Uncanny X-Men 303, and X-Men 30 was only a few months after that. We had the holocover Fatal Attractions, where Magneto ripped Wolverine's adamantium out. Wolverine at this point had devolved into a more bestial appearance with bone claws.
This is when comics peeked. Now it has nothing to do with superheroes. It's all about being gay fighting everything heterosexual.
Stories, art, characters, everything was beautiful, total opposite of what SJW's Marvel is now.
I'm glad I kept all those comics so I can read it again and again and never ever give any money to PC culture ;)
I loved how Scott was never afraid of Logan when most of the others were.
Ororo and t'challa was actually set up by claremont himself iirc, in one of the "classic x-men" short stories, and I think priest's black panther touched up on their relationship as well. They weren't exactly madly in love, but there was at least some sexual tension in their interactions
Of course it's a diverse marriage - you have Cyclops marrying a soul-less Ginger
Bought the original back in the day, still one of my favourite X-Men books. The talent in the writing and art show earnest care and reverence for the X-Men family. Keep reminding Marvel of what it needs to revive - giving a shit about it`s characters.
Reminds of the era I loved comics and bought tons of them every week. I stopped in 92 when I joined the military. But the comics then were really good most of the time.
Damn. I dont have a scanner, Zack. Still not gonna stop makin fan art though. Keep up the solid work.
Curious, what did you guys think of the X-Men animated series episode of Scott and Jean's wedding? The comic is really strong but I can appreciate the difference presented between versions.
I liked it. I felt bad for Logan ("tell Cyke I made 'im a convertible") but I was mad with him at the same time- dude, she chose Scott, lick your wounds and move on. I was very irked by how the comics and the show had him pining over her long after the fact. Storm's better for him anyway :-)
SJW Marvel Needs to die and the Old Marvel needs to come back to life
Hey zac, random question. Would you ever consider doing portfolio reviews? It would be nice for people trying to start out to get feedback from someone who knows what they’re talking about. Also it would be funny if you could show that fans can do better art/storytelling than some of the “pros”. I know EVS used to do them, but he’s only done one or two since he switched to Star Wars, and the last one was “the death of rose”. If you’re not interested, no worries. Portfolio reviews are just very helpful and interesting for people that want to make comics but are still amateurs.
Remember those silly yet cool "Swimsuit Editions" from the 90's? Today they'd make "Bake and Binge Sleepover No-Straight-boys allowed" Editions. Drawn like $%*!
Niceiza is probably one of the most underrated creators in comics. It’s a real shame he doesn’t work more today
Rachel is Jean and Scott's kid from Days of Future past, Cable is Madelyne Pryors kid.
I inherited this issue from my older brother!
Rachel is Scott & Jean's Daughter from the Days of Future Past Timeline, Cable is Scott's child with Madelyne.
Ya boi!
Great video and insightful analysis.
There is nothing better than love...
Heterosexual love.
I have this comic and I love the art/colouring for this time. It's just such an awesome comic.
I got this issue when it first came out so many years ago. The Rogue and Gambit scene was the best.
The quality of stuff like this just makes me sad because of the current state of comics and the X-Men. Absolutely superficial nonsense. Characters not acting like each other. No heterosexuality. No real friendship and respect for one another. It hurts, man.
Storm and Black Panther a couple? Of course, because their black! Sure!
What?
To my knowledge, it was done to please big-wigs at BET.
Le current year: "Black trans midget cyclops marries crossdresing man-phoenix"
As it was: Storm and Jean were "Clairmont Close" for a while, with Psylocke openly angling for Scott. So the X-men are family except for all the implied sex going on.
is there a check list of this "True Believers" line or reprints? i'm planning to pick some up.
Marvel should be putting those out on check stands in grocery stores and all, not just LCS.
around here, I don't see them.
I think Bishop was holding a plate behind Beast's head and the perspective was off.
I got ready eyed because I miss having a culture I can identify with. This was beautiful.
Another I bought back in the day. When ever I hear One by U2 I think of this book.
Good to know I'm not the only one that's been buying the True Believers books (the good ones anyway). This was one of the most interesting moments in the X books back then, and honestly haven't consistently read any of them since early 2000s. I kinda stopped when there were so many X-Men books it was harder to keep track, and nowadays the people writing them have no understanding of the characters. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this one.
Man...seeing today how these characters were treated (Scott transformed into a villain which murdered your mentor, Xavier vandalized, etc.) make me very sad...
Certain "core" aspects of a character should be mantained, in my opinion...you could change the place, time, even the situation, but there are a thing which we know like "classic", and just who follows comics a long time knows... and one of these, is the Jean&Scott relationship...
Someone has probably already said it, but Rachel Summers/Grey is the daughter of an alternate timeline Jean Grey where the Phoenix didn't kill herself, Cable is Madeleine Pryor's son. She has a very complicated family tree... although the Shiar made it less complicated by killing her entire family.
I remember during the Xmen 90s cartoon, they actually had an alternate Future (where Xavier has been murdered before creating the Xmen) and they actually shipped Logan and Storm. That was an interesting pairing.
Also sent them back to the past (50's?) and hang out in a diner with young Xavier and some others. Had Logan and Storm get cozy with each other and the diner owner freak out on them because of they're different races. Not because of the Mutant thing.
Honestly, old cartoons managed to deal with Racial prejudices a lot better than current comics/other media.
One Man's Worth. I LOVE that episode :-)
This was a beautiful story and brought a tear to my eye that it earned!
Oh boy! This brigs back memories.
I LOVED THOSE MULLETS!
If i wanted to get into marvel comics could you give a list of suggestions from were to start ?.
Damn...those two pages have more words than most SJW comics. This whole issue would have been a trade paperback if it was done today.
Great video
Actually, Rachel Summers (At least up to the late 90s... any retcon after that, I couldn't tell you) is Scott and Jean's daughter. Whereas Cable is Scott and Madelyn's son.
Aw man, on the two page spread from 7:25 to 11:24... they didn't keep the topless Domino. Great issue though. Fabian Nicieza was definitely performing a lost art.
Thank you for doing a review of a real comic.
I get the whole gay thing in marvel comics - the most popular ‘ships’ on tumblr are gay (idk if Zack knows what a ‘ship’ is in fandom context - it’s a romantic pairing a fandom makes art/fanfics around) Marvel thinks having gay characters equates to fandoms.
But they missed the mark on how to make a fandom around a ship.
The most common pairings tend to be characters who interact negatively towards each other with opposite personalities- it’s why batmanXJoker is popular.
When the lesbians instantly like each other and their is no conflict and no chemistry, no one will care whether or not they get together, fans won’t make fanart or fanfics because they have little storytelling source material (conflict and chemistry) to work with.
Also the most popular ‘ships’ on tumblr tend to be ‘handsome straight white rich male’ x ‘handsome straight white rich male’ (professor x and magneto from xmen first class)I knows it’s very ironic, I’d love to psychoanalyse a fanfic writer.
Miraculous Ladybug is an example of a tumblr fandom that had many lesbians ‘ships’ - the most popular lesbian ‘ship’ is between the sweet main character and the snobby bitch. Writing female characters with diverse personality’s and opinions makes character conflict more interesting, it makes it more cathartic when they reconcile - so reconciliation would be they get together romantically. The writers at marvel are currently incapable at writing diverse female characters with conflict. So they will never get a big fandom surrounding their characters.
Aw, little Luna.
Got the original at a comic con last year, does that count?
True believers is the best marvel comics out this year.
Rachel is her daughter from an alternate future. Not Maddie 's. Cable is Maddie's.
Your point about wanting to go back, but can't, is why I've stopped reading Marvel comics. X-Men will never be the same. Too much has happened that cannot be fixed without a reboot, and a reboot capturing that feel is like trying to extract a teardrop you cried into the ocean. It can be done, but the odds of doing it are astronomical.
Wow, this was back when I enjoyed X-men. You're right though, X-men used to be a giant, slightly dysfunctional but rock solid family drama. Right now it's just a big mess of crossover event fallout and truly annoying characters.
I own a collection. I love this issue. I reread this so often.
Add on: Also Jubilee started out having issues with the wedding in the previous issue which was kind of cute even though I don't like Jubilee.
Fabian carried X-Men for 3 years, despite Scott Lobdell awful work on Uncanny
Actually I preferred the wedding of Rick Jones and Marlow in the Incredible Hulk during the Peter David era. It was a more interesting story. Rachel is the daughter of Cyclops and Phoenix, where as Cable is the son of Madelyne Pryor and Cyclops. But yes the stories were better than and they had a diverse group of heroes. It's a shame that the sentimentality of the 90's was dumped on by the SJW stories of the past 5 years.
Would benefit from using the scans of the comic to show pages and not a... Go pro? Or cell phone or whatever you used one handed to record this. That combined with a bit of editing would really make this video shine