Are You Tube Curious? Advice and Ideas Based on my Journey So Far With Resto/Mod Tube Amps
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- čas přidán 23. 04. 2023
- I have restored or modified or built several tube amps by starting with power amps pulled from tube consoles. This video features three of those amps. I share some of what I've learned from my experience so far. This is a pared-down version of an hour-long video on the same subject.
- Věda a technologie
Thie has got to be excellence. If i ever seen it . From the electrical wizardry to the simplicity of the story telling . You make this very easy for a young ignorant kid to learn and for that I am appreciative. I want to come visit sometime soon I'm not far from Corvallis. People have no idea how long it takes to get a perfectly edited video like this cleanly posted time after time Thank you
Thanks for the kind words!
You are the only one so far ( and Ive watched to hundreds of videos of tube amps) who said that there is no special tube sound but a good sound! I have thought same from the first time I listened to a tube amp! Thanks for your video , simple but to the point.
Thanks!
Thank you for your thoughts. I couldn't agree more. I started my audio journey many years ago with a tube receiver, then moved to a Phase Liner 400 ss amp and preamp, which was my rig for many years. Now I've fallen in love with tubes again. And the journey continues.
I studied small signal amplifiers in technology course. The recommended text was all solid state semiconductor based. From the library, I fished out an older textbook that covered tubes in amplifier circuits. Fascinating read. Modern tube based audio amplifiers look stunning & I am saving some earnings to purchase one, but would love to build my own from a kit or own design. Glory to electronic tubes!
Awe I really appreciate your video here. The amps you have look like amazing DIY projects. Simply beautiful. The the art of thermionic valves. ❤
Thank you for your less pretentious thoughts and explanations then 99% of the internet. I particularly agree when you talk about tubes related to holographic sound and I do not like the term ‘warmth’ as well. I like to think of tubes as a choice just like MC or MM/MI cartridges. It’s a different way of presentation and I like tubes a lot. I think good tubes have it in them to sound more natural.
Thanks!
This is one of the better introductions to tube amps I've seen on youtube. Looking forward to watching more of your videos
Thank you!
What a great video. Those Magnavox console power amps sound unbelievable even only slightly modified.
Thanks!
I just came across your channel. I got here looking at tube guitar amps. Love your content! I subscribed. Sure hope you didn't quit!
Thanks!
Super video . Great information . Even across youtube , the amps you played sounded great !
Thanks!
I enjoyed your video, I started my story with a Dynaco sca 35 it was in constant need of repair. After a number of years I gave up on it. I turned to Decware and bought a 2.3watt amp and their zp3 phono amp. With some full range speakers I have settled there. It sounds as you described for a set amp. I have never gotten a pre amp as it has two inputs and a volume nob.
Don't forget the "gateway drug" for millions of tube enthusiast, the Dynaco ST70! That's where I started nearly 40-years ago. And there's nothing wrong with stopping there should one want to go no further on their "journey" through Hifilandia. Thanks for your video, I'll have to check out more.
Right! The St70 was the flea market amp that I took home 40 years ago and that completely destroyed my $$sytem that sounded so cold , dull and boring. All of a sudden, it was magical.. yes, it was a bit boomy.. but it was 3D, and so much FUN!
I sold all my ss gear and bought my first great set.. Marantz 7c and 8B..😊
My favorite amp is a restored The Fisher SA-300.
@@GiguereSylvain That sounds like my experience. Forty years ago tube amps were pretty much the thing of scroungers, with the exception of McIntosh and Marantz. Heck, even my Fisher 800B was only 85-bucks in 86. But tube amps shut down any interest in SS for me too. The SS gear of that time just didn't have the dynamics and sound stage that tubes delivered. And since Dynacos, Heathkits and Fishers were cheap the decision to discard SS wasn't a hard one to make. The Heathkit AA30 I'm listening to right now was rescued from the bottom of a dumpster at a flea market in the late 80s. Based on that history tubes still hold a special place with me.
The Willsenton R300b amp is great with upgraded tubes, beautiful old school tube sound but with great detail.
Ran into your channel on my recommended vids list. Subbed and glad I ran into your channel. I've been wanting a tube amp and possibly a tube amp project & have never considered or thought of an old console unit to get into tubes cheaply. Thanks for the videos !
You're welcome! And thanks for the sub!
My "Ultimate" tube amp was a set of Quicksilver v90 monos. 120 wpc. Problem was, at the time, I had giant tower ribbon/hybrids. Those speakers needed no less than a solid 200 wpc. †he QS ran out of gas. These days? I'm sub/sat. My speakers are efficient enough for 30 watts to be plenty, especially since they are crossed over at 80hz and it takes the strain off the amp. As of today (4/25/2023). Frenzel is building me an SPX-72 12ax7 tube pre amp.
Excellent video.🤜🤛
I've also got a Boss Katana KTN-100 Mk II digital modelling solid-state guitar amplifier, it uses Boss's proprietary Tube Logic technology in it's power amplifier circuitry to model how an amp with four EL34 tubes behaves, my impressions of it is that it seems to do a really good job of it, it sounds a lot like an old 100W tube amplifier, you can also dial back the output power from the full 100W to 50W or .5W via the output power switch, it also features five different amp mode/voicings from acoustic to brown, and 8 user programmable channels each of which can have up to 5 virtual pedal fx chained in a row, and there are 60 virtual pedals available, wonderful little amp, and it's lighter than my Marshall amp so it's easier to tote to gigs.
Excellent upload, I'm refurbishing a console stereo valve (tube) amp that I put into my loft back in the 1980s, I can't remember what it came out of, and it has no valves in it. Luckily, the names of the valves are written on sticky labels above the spaces where they go,(a pair of 12AX7 and a set of four 7868) There is a valve holder space which I have not worked out what it's for. It's not the rectifier valve, as the amp uses solid-state diode half wave rectification, but whatever it is, it looks like some kind of feedback valve. I'm thinking that it might be some kind of sound-to-light controller like what might have been used in a juke box?… Anyway, I've traced out the circuit and have ordered some valves, and can't wait to see if I can get this thing going…
Already subscribed sir...
To add my cents of experience regarding same topic....I also love SET tube And class A SS...
What I came to know after 20 years of seeking Hi Fi sound is there are well Dynamic recordings available..only those recordings sounds pleasing to our ears.....
Because those recordings are well made by true audiophiles/lovers/passionate...
How we as listener can improve/keep/enhance those dynamics while playback/reproduction.....
Three things actually does that for us......
TUBE
MAGNETIC TAPE
EQUALIZER
And you said right I also prefer tube at last or second last stage of reproduction chain.....(flow of resolutions matters)
Enjoyed your video quite a bit. I did a full rebuild of an SCA-35 a few years ago. Following step-by-step with the OEM manual. Big fun :^). Also, a GREAT sounding amp.
I strongly considered "cloning" the ST-35 or power amp section of the SCA-35, but I was put off by the problems I was having with cloning the power amp section of the HK A300. Turns out my troubles were due to having the output transformers installed backwards (i.e., reversed polarity of the secondaries) so that the intended negative feedback was in fact positive. Even after resolving that (simple) issue, the HK A300 clone still had slewing distortion at lower frequencies than acceptable. Meanwhile, I had decided against a Dynaco clone in favor of the Morgan Jones design (Bevois Valley). The circuit is simpler than the Dynacos, and it was nice to have Morgan Jones's explanation of every design and component value choice. I love the resulting amp. Still, I'd like to get an SCA-35 some day. Meanwhile, I have the PACO SA-40 to play with!
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi That's rather interesting. Cloning the SCA-35 has the issue with availability of the 7199 driver/inverter tube. I found some NOS for my project, but they are very pricey.
@@DannerPlace 6U8A can substitute. Different pin-out though. Requires converter or rewiring the pins. With my A300 clone, I used one 12AX7 for both inputs and one 12AU7 for both inverters, but it's much nicer to be able to use one tube per channel for both input and inverter.
@@DannerPlace Also, check out the ST-35 circuit. It uses a different tube, I think one that combines high-mu and medium-mu triodes.
I had heard Bob Carver talk about a tube amp that reignited his tube itch.
It is a tube amp called The Mesa Baron.
Yes that Mesa as in Mesa Engineering.
Was actually based off a guitar amplifier called the Mesa Boogie Strategy.
The Strategy guitar amp was able to produce 200 watts per channel.
Randall Smith the designer decided to try to put forth an amplifier into the audiophile market which resulted in the creation of the Mesa Baron.
The Baron is rated 150 Watts per channel.
But he added VU meters and toggle switches that are 3 position which allows you to change the amps sound.
Thanks for sharing
@@gregakers1405 I forgot to mention I got my hands in one of those strategy amps and it's pretty powerful and sounds great!
Subbed just because this video
I'm currently in the process of working on a diy scratch-build tube guitar amplifier based on the Soldano SLO 100, it's actually a 50W Soldano SLO that I call the Sloclone 50, I also have three other tube guitar amps, an Epiphone Valve Special 5, a Marshall MA100C 100W 2 X 12 tube combo, and an old 1975 or 1976 non-reverb Fender Super Twin that puts out 180W RMS or a whopping 395W Peak.
Well done, subscribed!
Thanks!
Just found your channel I tuck a gamble on a tube amp that was a grate price because it had developed a fault whilst it was in storage by the previous owner it was there fore sale at a good price so I tuck the plunge it was ok at first but developed distortion on one channel but I did not panic I swapped the tubs over to the other Chanel and the distortion swapped to the opposite channel grate I was happy bought a new machete set of kt88/89 tubes, and bingo I was in heaven it’s grate and powerful and beautiful sound when it’s between tracks it is as quiet as a mouse it’s like a black hole so quiet. it’s a Chinese made amp but a British firm as played with it. fortunately the firm that has altered the amplifier, although has made a really good job. I amplifiers quite highly rated but he has a bad reputation with his attitude towards his customers. it’s an affordable valve company kt88 triode connected amp
Hi, so much great advice for beginners, I too started out with junk shop homebrews. By the way Bevois (valley) is pronounced the same as Beavis (and butthead) I used to live there and have fond memories of Bevois Valley Electronics, the old school electronics parts shop that Morgan Jones named the design after
Thank you! I'd read that it was pronounced the same as beavers, but then I figured they might not have meant how we pronounce beavers in the US. I've taken to calling my versions Beaver Valley; I live in the Willamette Valley, and here at Oregon State our mascot is the beaver. 😁
I started my tube journey about 10 years ago and being in my early 20s at the time I went to school for electronics just to learn how to design audio gear, now I design and build all my own to get the sound I want personally. I started off with modding magnavox console amps then went to the fisher stereos and so on, building my own amps beats any of them to my ears. Magnavox amps are ok but very limited and basic.
I built 3 tube amps from scratch so far.. euhh 2, the Audionote Kit One (nice, not great), the Fi Primer 300B (better) and a Shishido direct coupled 45SE amp. My best amp ever, better than anything I bought so far.. So good that I never got myself to unbuild it from its 'experimental' version. It's just works too perfectly. No hum, no buzz, just musical. I lent it to a friend.. and never was able to go back to his 2A3 again..
6BW6 is the small version B9A version and is very cheap to buy where as here in the UK the 6V6 is from RCA and other vintage brand are asking silly money for them
Great videos. I just hope we don't scavenge all the few consoles left though.. some deserve being preserved and restored.. About tube amps, I stopped looking for/buying more powerful ss amps when tube amps entered in my audio life.. I find the sound more.. pleasurable.. period. I've owned moderately priced ones that were great and one in particular that was quite expensive.. and pretty bad.. so, you have to make your own experimentation.. Right now, my main system is based on a Counterpoint SA1 tube preamp and a pair of 'magic' Quad II tube amps. That's a great combo. And I equally use the tube preamp with my Sugden ss power amp. Great sound too. And yes, I clearly prefer a tube preamp if there is to be only one of the set to be tube.. I haven't found a great ss preamp yet. But that's me. Speakers are mainly older Tannoy and Reference 3A MM. First of all, have fun! Music reproduction is a hobby, an art, and a quest.. and there are so many paths to get there. That's the beauty of it.
Well said!
Thanks
The most common reason why musicians like tube amps is because of the type of harmonic distortion they supposedly produce when overdriven due to the inherent non-linearities in the way a tube behaves, this inherent non-linearity tends to produce predominantly even-order harmonics, here's an interesting fact, the human ear itself produces even-order harmonic distortion, even-order harmonic distortion tends to sound pleasing to the human ear or brassy because the harmonics are octaves of the fundamental and more sonorous or consonant, whereas odd-order harmonic distortion as produced by solid-state amplifiers, tend to sound harsh or hollow because they are odd multiples of the fundamental and sound dissonant and have a "shattered-glass" quality.
Exactly right. See my recent video on single-ended tube amps.
I bought a fisher 500c and total restoration, including custom case
and I'm good. Powering a set of university 1212's
Yeah, that's a nice receiver!
well I mange to track down a WA-6SE brand new for dirt chip, and was disappointed at first. After 50h of burn in was really not impressed. It turned out it takes 200-250h to really get going, and to be fair, I love the sound and for now I see no reason to get anything else. I understand that different tube and tube amps sound different, but there is nothing I would like changed in sound for the moment. I guess got it right at first try.
Awesome!
I will play devils advocate here on one of your later questions in the video. "Why would you want a bad sounding amp that rolls off the highs and lows?" I'm not sure I completely agree with that statement because...you say you love the sound of tube amps. If this is true is it not also true that ALL tube amps roll off the the highs and lows? Maybe I am missing something but...lol. I know that PS audio does exactly that, use a tube pre amp to drive a solid state power amp. Anyway, the appeal for most people i think is the warmth that the tube give the sound, does it color the sound? Sure that's why I like them and I would argue that's why most people like them, having said that I have a pair of mono amps from a company called DeWalt one made in 1957 and one from 1958, they are identical and just about the most sterile sounding amps I have ever heard! SUPER CLEAN! Too clean for my taste. So I get it just because it's tube based does not mean it's warm. Thanks for the upload and I just subbed...great channel!
My reasons for liking tube amps are complicated. Not all tube amps roll off highs and lows. The Magnavox console sound was warm, in part for cost saving. I was initially drawn in by that warmth, and then I dug deeper and discovered the greater potential of tube amps. Another thing that draws people in is the relatively great, even-harmonic distortion produced by single-ended amps without negative feedback. For example, see Skunkie's recent videos about a color-adding preamp (as well as a recent video of mine). I think all that is fine if it's what you want, but I do have a problem with, e.g., Decware marketing such amps as providing pure sound via simplicity. Anyway, I try not to judge. Love the sound you love, but maybe you'll be better off understanding why you love it (but maybe not 🤣).
I find that Tube amps are good at hiding intermodulation distortion inherent in speakers. I think that is the appeal without knowing why. When using extremely low distortion speakers, a solid state or newer class D (hypex) can sound just as smooth and warm.
Thank you for making this video…. I’m very new to all of this… I have a Harmon kardon 430 twin power in the shop… and I was thinking of getting a tube amp for in the mean time and to add a second setup in my bedroom…. I noticed that you have different tube amps for different types of music and mentioned wanting to build a preamp..So I don’t know much about electronics but could you do a preamp with three outputs that go through a high pass filter to one amp and a low pass filter for a bassier amp and one for mids that go into individual speakers?
I don't know about 3-way, but bi-amping is a thing. I haven't looked into how exactly it's done. I think people use external crossovers: preamp to external crossover to bass and treble amps to bass and treble speakers. Tube amps do treble easily, but bass is difficult and expensive. Treble is relative, though. Tube amps with modest output transformers can do well down to 100 Hz or so.
Thank you for your response…. And for the videos
ADCOM GFA 545II rocks! Still have mine, and not relevant to tubes, will drive Maggies! Tubes are on the horizon!
Yeah, if I had room in my living room setup, I'd at least try it out in that setting. The headroom would be nice.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi sounds like an opportunity to build that tube preamp!
Yes! I recently took the first step and bought a 2-deck, 24-position rotary switch on eBay. As suggested and described by Morgan Jones in _Valve_Amplifiers_, I will use it to make an incremented volume control for my preamp. I also have a potential chassis, sheet aluminum and wood.
Subscribed too.
Thanks!
great video. the problem with this tube hype is that the prices for nos will skyrocket...a pair of siemens lonngplates 12au7's is 800$
Yikes! Yeah, it's crazy. I have a friend who's holding $10K Western Electric 300B's.
Is that an Allied Tuube amp back there on the shelf? I bought one at a yarddsale becuuase I like that way it looked :) Innside is nice but scared to play it long sound good but it old. its a 935
No, but a couple of amps with similar form factor, both solid state: Dynaco SCA-80 and Nikko TRM-750.
I would also recommend Willsenton R300B. For $984 what a Great Sounding Amp and even better with some simple Film Cap Upgrades.
They're $1924 here in Canada.
i heard they were really good with some modification.
German guy said old chen is better than willsenton
@@MasterofPlay7 Willsenton R300B is the one I am talking about. I have 2 threads in Audiokarma with the 2nd unit getting a complete upgrade in parts (need to update the thread as the parts are in).
@@joenovak6393 exactly you need to upgrade the parts while old chen there's no need
👍
Tube question Re Tubes that can be used: So, I’ve heard some different tubes can be used in a tube amp (the base), that sound better than others or different etc., and how is one to determine which tubes the rest of the amp can handle (the base)? Voltage / Wattage ratings of the different tubes…..? Thank you.
This is a complex subject. Tubes of the same type are generally interchangeable, but there may be differences between different makes, just like old tubes sound different from new ones. Some different tube types have similar enough specs to be interchangeable. In general, though, changing tube types requires changes to the circuit.
Do you happen to live in Lancaster PA? Do you have a retail store?
No and no (Lancaster is my name). I think there is a store in Lancaster. It already had my first choice for a name for the channel and business.
could it be that in tubes you are simply modulating a stream of electrons compared to the tortuous path through the junctions of silicon.
Really?
I started in 70ties to make my long years research why tubes by sounding are not solid. I had both at reach of hand and tried to modify stereo solid to sound like mono tube. Somebody may think it was possible by any special EQ but not at all. By any way NO.
Sound of tubes was different and better iand it was imposible to detetect the reason But listening was like spring delicate rain and breeze and solid pleasant like heavy storm. I learned that the kay to tube sounding in solid lays in feedback circuit. When I removed middle part in feedback I got it almost - say 90%. I couldn't solve it deeper but accepted result. With time passing I purchased one by one better solid amplifiers with ....even worse outcome because they were build in way impossible to modify
Thst is why in 2005 I purchased stereo tube Pioneer SX34 PP amplituner . I had stereo "TUBES" at last, horray. . And ...I wasn't satisfiied . Started digging in feedback and again got 90% of my needs but no more. Where is the point!!! The point was in end tubes - ECL 82
After 13 years purchased next tube stereo PP amplifier Instead four ECL82 It used four 6V6 which as I observed is better option. And with my upgrades it was like the heaven.
Where is the main difference? In tube amplifier you have output transformer which poses inductive pararell to speakers reactance . In solid amplifier output you have with speaker serial capacitor which at not defined frequencies resonates in serial with with speaker resonant complex (mechanical and electrical and eventually with crossover elements)
That is difference which cannot be overcomed other way than to add to solid ampifier output transformer. . With tube amplifier powers are small enough to use one speaker with no crossover, With solid you must apply powerfull low toner which must be supplememnted by spoprano driver and crossover. That are three of many reasons why tube amplifiers sound different than solid and it is no way to EQ it.
I am looking for a simple 300b stereo amp with prefer tube rectification. Any suggestions?
I haven't built anything with 300b's yet, so I don't know the tube, nor have I studied up on circuit designs for it.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Do you think a push pull 6V6 is just as good?
@@GiguereSylvain Thanks for the links! I never heard the 45 or 2A3 tube in my system which is Cornwall IVs. I'm worried not enough power! What do you think? That's why I am sticking with 300b set.
Check out the Willsenton R300B. Do a search here (Thomas & Stereo, Steve Huff Photo & HiFi, Jay's iyagi, Hifi Cave). I own 2 and I have a thread in Audiokarma as this a wonderful 300B Class A Amp.
Look up Herb Reichart 'Flesh and Blood' an article he wrote back in the day for 'Sound Practices' magazine. I scratch built them (dual monoblocks) back then and lived to tell about it. I'm now into David Berning's designs.
Can you fix a Melos preamp?
I figure I can fix anything except microcontroller issues. So far. Eventually. Question is whether I'm your best option and whether I'd want to try. 😁 Unless you're local, I recommend asking for help on Audiokarma. Very friendly and helpful people can help you figure out what to do and even find someone to do repairs. If you're within an hour or so drive off Corvallis, Oregon we can talk.
Just did a quick search. There's an Audiokarma thread that laments the lack of schematics for Melos gear. Finding someone willing to try repair without a schematic might be difficult. I suggest you beat the bushes to track down a schematic or anything else you can find out about the design and what the typical failure modes are. Any information you can dig up will improve the likelihood of finding someone to attempt the repair.
I think Luxman always produced tube amps
Good to know! Of course, as soon I said, "Everyone but McIntosh..." I figured I was probably wrong. 😅
Why not just use a DSP to distort the audio program so it sounds like its been through a tube amp and send it through a modern solid state amp? You get that nice warm distorted tube sound without having to fuss with tubes. The same software could insert surface noise, wow, flutter, tape his or any other alteration that appeals to your nostalgia.
No tube glow.
Great video, ok, I will bite... how can I look into getting a tube amp from you?
Send me an email. Find the address on the "about" tab on the channel page.
@Lancaster Hi-Fi I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something. I don't see an email address on your about page?
@@__-vo7iq You may need to use a web browser to see it. When I use my web browser (from my "Geomorphdog" account), go to the channel page, and click the "About" tab, below the description are "Details" and a button that says "View email address." When I use my phone, there's no such button. Weird.
@Lancaster Hi-Fi that's what I did. Your email address doesn't show when I'm on my phone. I have to be on a computer.
@@__-vo7iq Anyway, it's stephen.t.lancaster at gmail dot com
DCM’s!!!!
My first valve amp was a chinese cheap thing, and with the Mullards i installed, it had me whooping on first listen, previously uninspiring songs, hung in the air in front of me, i could almost touch musicians, i'll never own a solid state amp again.
Do you have any tube amps for sale?
Yes. DG-SE1 for $1000 and BV-6V6 for $1400.
Do you sell your amps? I am tube curious.
I do! I have three ready for sale now: two DG-SE1's and one BV-6V6.
You can email me at the address on my channel page.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi I looked and didn't see it. I'm sure it's there but I just couldn't find it
Stephen dot T dot Lancaster at gmail dot com
If I wanted distortion, I'd listen to LPs.
🤣 I mean, I do listen to LPs ..
😏👍
You can only do one sentence before editing to another sentence....too disjointed to watch, bye.
I too found that distracting but never the less will keep watching for future videos. Maybe buy a Teleprompter?
You didn’t go on a journey.. you didn’t leave your work shop.. Why do these middle age male CZcamsrs talk about journeys as if they are 20 year old girls? If they want to be 20 year old girls then go trans and go tiktok ,be a freak if you want to , but please don’t bring your journeying into the decent , real world.
Hater! 🤣 And, oh, the places I ventured to get those consoles!
Try a single driver speaker with the single ended amp, it should open a new door.
I bet you're right. It's on the list (which is long). 😁
Technically, if they are questioning if they should purchase a tube amp, they are BUY-Curious. Ha!
...anyway... without investing a fortune, my minimum tube amp would be 30 wpc. I say that because I prefer a little more than needed vs almost enough.
I don't want to spend $$$ to $$$$ just to get an amp that needs to be re-capped and have parts of the corroded drivetrain replaced.
I have to caution people away from some budget imports, because they are hybrid/mosfet and tube rolling has no effect. IE. Douk/nobsound.
Aren't some of the cheaper imports just solid state amps with cathode followers? As if running the sound through a unity-gain tube circuit adds some special, secret ingredient. What a scam! (If I'm right, that is.)
hey buddy whats ur name on AK? im on there quite a bit.
Geomorphdog. Same as IG and my first YT channel.