The WEIRD Reason Marvel Fired The Hulk
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- čas přidán 29. 09. 2020
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Marvel movies have been a huge part of the medium for over a decade now, but the Hulk was once incredibly different. This is the story about why Marvel fired the original Hulk and why they decided it wasn’t worth making individual Hulk movies moving forward.
#Nerdstalgic #Marvel #TheHulk
What is the best marvel movie?
ANOTHER PROBLEM with the Hulk movies is that it will cost Marvel/Disney money to get back distribution rights from Universal. Not mentioned in the video as there are rumors (that I tried but could not substantiate) that the rights reverted back to Marvel sometime this year. Didn't want to parse out misinformation when I couldn't get to the bottom of the matter. I would imagine we’ll have a concrete answer on that from Marvel directly in the near future as post Endgame Marvel gets underway.
Infinity war!
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2
Winter soldier for the more grounded movies, then gotg 2 or infinity war for cosmic stuff.
With Amy Pascal now at Universal it's likely she'll push for a deal similar to Spiderman with Sony. Especially with Marvel showing they don't need the distribution to squeeze Hulk stories into other movies like they did with Ragnarok.
@@catdogman23 It was rumored by MCU Cosmic back in January but never confirmed
I’m still upset there wasn’t a Thanos vs. Hulk round two in the MCU
me too. They nerfed Hulk soo bad. They should not have done what they did to him.
@@longgwaylonggwayysmith831 shut up
@@longgwaylonggwayysmith831 Yeah.... that doesn’t mean he can’t beat him a second time lol Thor got his ass beat by him also and he still called him out when he landed in Wakanda and at least wanted another round.
True, but a quick get back scene would have been nice.
@@corrupt_insomniac those were the natures of the fights. Thor was caught off guard and had no weapons, Hulk was completely prepared the first time. A round two would just be the same as round one.
I just want the Hulk to feel scary again. At least for one scene.
That would be really cool. They wouldn't have to make him a horror movie monster, just show him being brutal and... hulk-ey, if that makes any sense.
@@freduruk6623 world war hulk 😩
The last time I felt that way was when he was chasing black widow on the helicarrier
Planet hulk is my favorite hulk movie
@@freduruk6623 sad tho, the mcu hulk is not scary at all. I don't think the mcu will have scary characters, cuz its for kids.
“Tony’s work is fun and exciting” shows him dying
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm surprised you didn't touch on the fact that Ed Norton was mostly pushing for darker themes and tones in The Incredible Hulk, and Marvel decided to go the other direction. It wasn't solely that he wanted rewrites, it's that his creative drive was to make something serious and dark in tone and they wanted something much lighter, so their tones clashed incredibly. He wouldn't stop pushing for a serious tone, so they went with someone else.
Was he looking for the direction of Watchmen?
Yeah but he was the actor not the director or producer to make those calls.
If he had problems with the script why did he accept the job in the first place instead of driving everyone else nuts during production?
I feel that the hulk is one of marvel's greatest characters this was a wasted opportunity
He's boring af
@@jordieplayerone well because they wasted him.
@@joshuazhao9597 nah, he IS boring. Even in the comics
because it doesnt makes sense, Hulk's especialty is to destroy not to save, why would they call for the Hulk if they can ask other Avengers members and solve the problem with less damage in their area? Hulk is far more better in a group like Avengers where some people can stop him when he gets wild.
@@user-jt6mi6ms6t no he isn’t he saves human best villains and gets beaten
It’s kind of ironic that the original actor for hulk had to be replaced because the team found him hard to work with.
That's poetic, not ironic
Very ironic
Pythonic
It is what it is...
The Incredible Hulk movie with Edward Norton is actually one of my favorite MCU movies. It’s a shame it went the way it did.
me too. i love the more angsty side of hulk than the comedic-relief hulk.
I LOVED THE HULK ON AVENGERS 1. After that he faded to the background. Thor, Cap and Stark was focused but people seems to forget that Hulk is also a major major member of the avengers comics. Wished they make him relevant again.
EVOLUTION OF THE MCU HULK:
INCREDIBLE HULK:😠
AVENGERS :😡
AGE OF ULTRON:🤬
THOR RAGNAROK:😎
INFINITY WARS:🤕😰
ENDGAME:🤓
Accurate lmaoo
Exactly !
Underated comment
No Incredible Hulk was more like 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
Nice i saw this same comment on another video
They need to redeem the hulk. All he’s been is a tool that marvel uses to show how powerful other characters are by beating him. They need to bring in world war hulk/planet hulk storyline.
I mean they kind of already showed the planet hulk storyline with Ragnarok, but even so not sure if World War Hulk could ever happen considering the direction the MCU is taking, but who knows?
@@jjamv9373 it would just turn into another series and not a movie.
The Wharf effect trope
@@jjamv9373 Yeah, doing an abbreviated version of Planet Hulk in Thor: Ragnarok basically killed any chances of that plotline becoming a solo Hulk film. And I don't see how they could do World War Hulk without Planet Hulk as a lead-in. Without the multiple levels of betrayal pushing Hulk into anti-villain territory, WWH just can't happen. And I just don't see the MCU going dark enough to do something like that, the way things currently are.
Pretty sure the Hulk is still under Paramount. Marvel only allowed to borrow for other movies, not a standalone.
Unpopular opinion: Edward Nortan's hulk looked far better in the fact that he looked more dangerous and much more stronger looking
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. I hear a LOT of people say that
that's not a unpopular opinion
The unpopular opinion is ruffalo's hulk can be monsterous too like the previous one but marvel said no
Popular opinion* there i fixed it for you
It looks shittier, scarier and more monstrous yeah but shittier
Marvel definitely coudl've made a bigger more hulk of a hulk but decided not too
As much as I adore Ruffalo, a very small yet very curious part of me wants to see how the MCU would have played out if Norton would have stayed as Banner. Norton has always been one of my favorite actors, if not mostly for nostalgic reasons. (The same can be said about me for Kevin Bacon lol)
I wouldn’t love Hulk as much. Mark Ruffalo is my man crush and I love Hulk because of him. Norton would just make me feel sorry for him. That’s no fun🤔🤷🏾♂️
@@MiguelDLewis Hulk wasn't meant to be fun in the first place. We should be sympathetic for him and just leave him alone dealing his problems, not being goofy and get along with him.
Wait, how is he nostalgic?
Same with andrew garfield spiderman for me
Hate Ruffalo hulk
Y'all still remember the Hulk from Avengers: Earth's mightiest heroes? That was IMO the greatest Hulk ever.
Indeed
Your damn right it was! Waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than that stupid Avengers Assemble oaf. Yeesh! Avengers EMH did so many characters the best it's not even funny. Ultron in particular comes to mind...
I liked the hulk from “the hulk vs”cartoon better ...and the hulk form ultimate avengers cartoon, though I know it’s a different universe that hulk in it was just perfect a out of control monster that even the avengers couldn’t stop
Yeah that was an amazing show
Mightiest heroes hulk is epic the best
Also, Universal having the rights to solo Hulk films makes it a bit difficult.
real shit?
Well infinity war was literally thanos solo film. Even hulk should have one solo film.
@@jacoba636 yeah but they can't because of universal. Mark Ruffalo has said it multiple times on record actually, and I'm surprised he didn't get into trouble for it 😂
To be more specific, they have the rights to distribute a Hulk movie. So they would have to share a cut with Universal.
Marvel reaquired the rights for Hulk almost a year ago. They are allowed to do a solo Hulk movie now.
The reasoning “Ed was probably gonna try and rewrite his role in all our movies and we don’t want to deal with that” imo is a perfectly valid excuse not to cast him. If you think he would have made the movies better or not doesn’t really matter, stepping on writers toes brings a lot of tension, especially when you’re trying to connect plots for 7 different movies years ahead of time and the cast aren’t allowed to know about the details because it’s a secret. Like I get it.
Sometimes, the writers do need to be stepped on. Book of Boba Fett is a great example of that when the lead kept voicing complaints about decisions made for the character that he felt both didn't fit with what the fans wanted and didn't fit the established character. He was right.
@JxmiJack if only we could read them...
Blobdad Fiegie himself stated that they wing alot of shit so you saying they planned all this yrs before is nonsense
Have you actually seen some of the deleted scenes? They are awful. No wonder Edward Norton kept asking for a better script.
Say what you want, buts it part if the reason why American history x did so well
Honestly, I actually really hate what the MCU have done to the Hulk since Mark Ruffalo took over the role, the Hulk is meant to be an intimidating force of mass destruction but instead they made Hulk into a joke! I prefer the more serious and tragic Hulk that we got in both the 2003 movie and in The Incredible Hulk.
i agree with you but i dont think the current hulk is that bad
@@abhinavbinuraj6297 You don't think? Have you not seen how cringe bad the She-Hulk show is, and how more retarded Hulk is?
They made Hulk enjoyable for kids. I think that’s more important than all you grown ass men wanting to be scared of Hulk
I'm STILL mad at how both Infinity War and Endgame wasted the Hulk smh
Great Escape, it wasn’t just endgame and infinity war, it was almost all of them
I’m gonna have to disagree on the bit about Infinity War. Thor: Ragnarok and Infinity War we’re setting up a great three-movie arc for Hulk, and then Endgame came in and shat all over it.
Great Escape I don’t think he wasted at all. They made some very risky choices with the character, but there is a lot of consequential character work being done there.
@@oly8241 nah. The Hulk was used amazingly in Avengers, AOU, and Ragnarok, albeit sparingly. But then in IW and EG he barely even fights
@@dougthedonkey1805 IW wasn't setting up nothing. It replaced Hulk with Hulkbuster and turned him into a joke
Too nerdstalgic's point, not having a hulk movie allows the writers to take liberties on a very powerful character. You could essentially plug hulk into any other character's movie to help move along the plot. It's almost like a cheat code
except the Russos have no idea how to deal with the Hulk in their storytelling
@@sb-productions FACTS👌💯
Actually hulk does have a mcu movie
SB Productions yeah they ruined him
@@sb-productions hulk is essentialy the avengers ultimate weapon and one of their greatest foes
I remember watching one of the old hulk movies (maybe the Ang Lee one?), and thinking it actually could have gone kind of deep.
There was this theme where we kept seeing partial memories about his father. I wondered if there was going to be a theme of generational anger/abuse issues and Bruce stoppong his anger/power from hurting people it shouldn't.
In the end, it was just a father-betrayal thing.
Ang Lee was Thanos to the Hulk mythos. He wrote out the most important character in the Hulk stories from the comics - RICK JONES! Raising this problem of balancing Banner's tragicness.
Also that genetic origin was so underwhelming, and complete bullshit. Radioactivity gives superpowers was Stan Lee's (& Marvel Comics') go-to mechanic. Their other most famous character (Spider-Man) was also a product of the same mechanic.
Marvel hulk is weak. The best hulk was played by Eric Banner, strong, indestructible, and never gives up but only gets stronger and stronger until the enemy gets eliminated.
they did ang lee's hulk dirty.
it was criminally underrated.
Yay, someone else watched Eric Bana film. Personnally haven't seen Norton film.
@@et4751 norton in my opinion is the best bruce banner and eric banna is the best hulk
The most misused character in all of the MCU. I don’t remember a single time when I saw banner or hulk on screen that wasn’t meant for comedic relief aside from the avengers assemble. The amount of disrespect JESUS. There are so many compelling hulk storylines they could adapt and so many character arch’s they could apply but instead we just have a comedy character. It’s so sad. I really hope Hulk comes home back to marvel, we need a solo film.
the first Avengers movie...was a good Hulk movie
Honestly at this point I don't even want a hulk solo movie because personally I feel as though endgame hulk is the worst hulk incarnation so far and that a solo hulk movie would be thoroughly unenjoyable with that knowledge
Luke Geekwalker There were scenes in Avengers 1 and 2 where Bruce is notably takes the darker terms. The time bomb quote and the infamous Tony and Banner “we’re monsters” and when he threatens to break Wanda’s neck
make a spin on the planet hulk comic books. in relation to the new doctor strange movie when he visits different universes
That’s interesting. I normally hear Hawkeye as the most misused character. Pre fraction, Hawkeye may be human, but he’s taken out people that Thor and hulk were both beaten by. It’s incorrect to portray him as the talented but fragile human. His tactics and cleverness make him a threat. Sadly, the only widely known Hawkeye is the little bitch that fraction created
I'm so high rn. This video started to sound like a freestyle
😂😂✅
you know the song? Im trying to find it
@@alexsokaitung I think it's kendrick lamar idk what song tho
@@tootart8858 I know the lyrics but I don’t know the name. It’s like “We’ve been here before, and f the popo”
@@alexsokaitung it’s alright by kendrick lamar
5:25 “Tony’s work is both fun and exciting”
Shows a clip of Tony dying in the Iron Man suit.
Watched Eric Bana's hulk during my college days. Enjoyed it thoroughly. Sometimes still remember it. Memory cherishes.
May we could see more Bana+ Ang Lee combination on screen..
I'm genuinely curious to see what norton's take on the hulk would've looked like. Hes an amazing actor and seemed genuinely invested in exploring what the character could be. Too bad the mcu decided to go with something completely different
# Release the Norton cut
I agree
What if: Norton version
Um. Norton did get his take on the hulk.
@@hatedcritic8066 3:10 "He [Edward Norton] fought for a different movie than the one that eventually hit theaters." No, he didn't get his take on the Hulk. According to the video he also wrote their own script for Hulk that wasn't used.
It really sucked when in Endgame Hulks whole arc was resolved in a time skip.
Like cmon not even a montage
Edit: I find it comical that CZcams just randomly notifies me that I got a like on this comment like bro I got 3 thousand why is this one now important. Maybe you should be notifying me of videos of people who I subbed to instead.
They could give him a movie in that time frame.
It is a shame what they did with hulk. He does have a lot of potential.
I mean all he did was combine Banner and Hulk
We don't really need a montage to imagine how that happened especially in an already 3 hour long movie
@@Yougotcaged102 It could be about his struggle with himself in the 5 years after he failed.
@@michaeljoseph4314 Not saying that's not something they could've done but considering the movie was already 3 hours long and would take away from the focus of the movie
It's hard not to think Norton's script could have set The Hulk up for such a more interesting future in the MCU.
I think Norton should be allowed to make a standalone Hulk movie... similar to the concept for Joker, where it won't necessarily connect with the rest of the franchise. He can take it in directions that will further develop the Hulk character. Maybe a Disney plus series so that he has time to develop the character.
After the Hulks tweets, they had no choice.
Sorry what Hulk tweets?
^^^ bump this
@@David_Scar hulk sayed the n word multiple times 10 years ago.
@@geegoflex6762 lol what?
@@David_Scar Hulk Hogan I think they're talking about
It's because Hulk just wants to be left alone, Hulk don't want own movie.
Because Hulk likes Simping.
NOO! NO MOVIE ONLY HULK!!
@@chris629able I don't have a problem with mark Ruffalo and the chest hair on him and hulk that makes me very uncomfortable and looks ridiculous can't he just shave it off and I'm not the only one who has a problem with this
@@redalert923 they can't find any razors in hulk size
@@lil18thletterking77 what about Bruce banner size
1:45 - 2:02 This is the most left field take I've seen about this. It was the most character focused MCU movie and not a single one has been replicated the serious vibe of it with the exception of Doctor Strange. Hulk looked his best in Incredible Hulk and he was never unlikable. That summary was just so wrong
Facts
That’s your opinion
I love Ruffalo, but Norton was fucking terrific. I miss him in the role. He loved the character to death. Norton was and is the perfect Banner to me. He embodied the struggle that makes the character work so well.
This just implies that the MCU doesn’t consider the Hulk’s solo stories relevant enough for films. They’re saying that everything AFTER his origin isn’t worth a solo movie.
Totally wrong!
For real, I think his origin is on the boring end of his stories
You know Universal studios is also not letting them make a solo hulk movie right
Mrzubayr
Of course. Disney COULD buy the rights but they don’t care. Universal doesn’t either. Basically both studios are ignoring the respect that the Hulk deserves.
@@ironfae I don't think buying rights just involves the buying , they should also be willing to sell at least, I agree the character is being neglected but I personally feel its more universals fault than Disney's to be honest been reading a lot of scripts for hulk movies turn up , even one from Mark Rufalo himself but they are getting cock blocked from legalities but it looks like they would go the TV show route soon so I've heard.
Mrzubayr
The only TV show is She-Hulk. Ruffalo will most likely appear in that. Disney will probably say that it’s “too old” or “too late” to make a solo Hulk movie. By the time they have the availability to try, they won’t.
Also, there’s a rights issue with the distribution of solo Hulk movie
Yeah was going to say pretty sure they cant legally do one. Which is why you have most of his stuff in the background of other movies.
@Noodle I'm not 100% sure about that, the only sources are slightly sketchy blogs reporting it as rumour, if it was official it would be in a more reputable source
@@JellyFilledEmpanada Legally they could, they just basically collect zero money from it.
Yup! Pinned comment! There are no RELIABLE sources that I could substantiate with legal info that the rights are back in Marvel's hands.
Noodle I don’t think he is.
His treatment has been progressively more disappointing.
Sure it's serviceable but as a big Hulk fan you can't ignore all the disrespect and nerfs to his character.
He needs to be genuinely threatening, not a damn joke.
Bill Bixby/Lou Ferrigno will always be the true Hulk
They went and turned [Planet Hulk] into Ragnarok. 😕
The movie was very good but I wanted to see the Hulk be the King of a planet bro.
Hulk had 2 great chances at being king both in ragnarok and planet Hulk because he could've been king if he said yes in planet Hulk and also he could've just beat the grand emperor in Ragnarok
@@lukedykes2929 Hulk had no say so in becoming King anywhere. The writters decide what he becomes. Not Hulk.
Facts I hated that they took and made it about Thor.
@@darrylthompson7509 I mean it was a Thor movie they just shouldn’t have put world war hulk in it
Hulk is literally one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. Hes always just such an interesting character study of this poor man with a curse and a world that hates him, his comics are usually great
Especially Immortal Hulk (even if you dont like comics, read this one, its horror but with the hulk and written really well)
Its a shame they never nailed him in a film
Same! Immortal Hulk is fantastic and as someone who prefers the Planet Hulk style of Hulk comics to the lone wanderer hiding out from the law style, I find Immortal Hulk incredibly engaging and fresh.
I'm starting to read immortal Hulk this week
Hulk is my fav too, he's always been.
Norton on Joe Rogan's podcast talked about this is how he wanted his Bruce Banner to be.
I remember wen you made gaming videos so glad I re discovered you're channel awesome easy/video bro
I think a Planet Hulk story could really be a good story. Obviously with a lot of changes. From the end of Age of Ultron to Thor Ragnarok, a movie about what he was doing between those time. He has been a gladiator fighter but they could add a very good storyline about the Hulk character. We know that Hulk didn't turn into Bruce at that time so the CGI on this film could be a little extreme but I would love a story about Hulk and not about Bruce to be honest. They could show the mind of both and their interactions in a way. And the movie could end in a negative note. We could see them interact in the mind of their body and Hulk embracing Bruce a bit which leads to him evolving and learning how to talk for example like he did in Thor Ragnarok. And just as we see them completing one another, we can see Hulk blocking out Banner and turning completely into the Hulk. That way it also fits Bruce saying that Hulk locked him in the trunk of a car rather than both of them having a hand on the wheel. We could see how Hulk fights his way to the top of the rankings but they could involve a friendship or a love story to give Hulk something to lose. They did that in Planet Hulk by giving Hulk, Caiera. We could see Hulk not being able to communicate with other fighters or Caiera for example but showing affection to them and her, especially Caiera. That's why he opens up Bruce and Bruce helps him evolve and makes Hulk understand other feelings than pain and anger. As the movie goes along we also see fighters getting treated worse and say worse. So as the voice of reason, Caiera could imply that Hulk should help these people. So they might arrange an escape plan. But of course, the plan doesn't go perfectly and Caiera dies by an accident while the plan is about to end. That might be the point where Hulk blocks out Banner completely and also lose any of his human qualities he has earned over the course of the movie. He could even take out his anger on the fighters right before their escape which would be another reason why the grandmaster likes the Hulk so much and offers him a great life unlike other fighters. And as Hulk has lost all the things he cared to love, he has nothing to lose and a lot of anger inside him which he takes out in the gladiator fights with no regard for other fighters as the last time he cared for them, his love died in the process. So the movie would have a darker end compared to most of the Marvel films. Unlike most films, Hulk would hit his rock bottom at the end of the film and we don't get to see him rise. The movie would have a plot-twist where it is not the rise of the Bruce and Hulk but rather a fall of both. The explanation for him not turning into Banner while he is with Caiera would also be because Hulk is passionate for him and not Bruce where as the love scenario regarding Natasha is a different case since Bruce feels more affection for Natasha than the Hulk. So it not only brings out the Hulk's weaker side a bit but also brings out Bruce's strong side. That's why we see the Hulk turn back into Bruce when he sees Natasha's video in Thor Ragnarok and screams "No Banner no." They could also include a fighter that Hulk likes among his "friends" and have multiple Grandmaster scenes for comic relief while having some Hulk scenes before the last act while Caiera is around for the comedic part of the movie. By this way, we get the classic experience of a Marvel movie where we laugh at multiple stuff but we also get to see pure Hulk. By pure Hulk, I mean scenes where the audience actually understands the fear he reflects on others as a monster like we haven't seen in a while. In a way he did in the Avengers where he was chasing Natasha in the ship. We haven't seen that in a while and having that in a movie together with the Bruce-Hulk dynamic and Hulk's lighter side would be a complete Hulk movie in my opinion and it would translate really good to Thor Ragnarok.
Fun fact about Bruce Banner: in the comics whenever someone goes into his mind they think it will be hectic but in fact Bruce has one for the if not the best willpower of all of the heroes and villains as his mind is the only thing holding the hulk back and in the comics at least is the most powerful entity to exist as in one comic the Earth was basically a barren wasteland and only Bruce and the hulk are alive, it is said in that comic that Bruce would have died a long time ago but the Hulk is keeping him alive he has tried suicide but the hulk didn’t let it happen practically becoming immortal
Wasn’t there one part where everyone was dead and bruce banner just gave up and hulk was the only one left in the world, alone
Very interesting dynamic. I wish the studio explore the character more.
Well in his mind world breaker hulk keeps them all the hulk's in check as they all fight to go through the door.. but yes Bruce has the last say... kinda
Pretty sure Banner is beat in terms of mental capacity, because Johnny Blaze takes the top spot. Banner is wrestling with a monster, but Johnny grasps at some semblance of sanity as he keep Zarathos, an angel, at bay, every waking moment.
@@decimation9780 yup it's actually craziness with mr blaze but now with the one below all etc. Its all more macabre
My struggle with the current MCU is it's extreme struggle to be serious. It is so rare that anything feels serious, feels like it matters. As a kid, one of the aspects I really connected with with the Marvel heroes was the struggle. Being a hero isn't easy- not just because you have to fight crazy threats! Socially, what they do, who they are, what they stand for...those things make it hard to blend in and interact with all the people who don't face those same struggles. There is a tragic element, a note of self-sacrifice. The modern MCU feel progressively more one-note, and that is sad. I hope the end of the movie move with Spiderman might introduce a bit of that conflict back.
The Edward Norton Hulk was dope!!!
In all seriousness, considering as to how the hulk turned out in the MCU, I’d like to see what Edward Norton’s entire script for the hulk looks like.
Ang Lee’s version that starred Eric Bana wasn’t bad at all! I felt the actor and undertone of the film fit very well. But others thought different.
I second that motion!
Did you ever find a link to the Norton script?
Yeah released Norton cut campaign on how they've nerfed the Hulk in the MCU. Lpl
@@K05H no unfortunately
Well, if they released the Snyder cut of Justice League. So who knows.
I wonder if Norton took into account the bigger picture aspect of the MCU? If not I can understand why people at Marvel would not be receptive of Norton's script as it would not fit in the larger narrative of the movie. This is basically what caused the DCEU to be such a disjointed mess world building wise even though it has some very well singular films.
I think hulk could be used to make a very genuine story about people who struggle with anger and outbursts of angry behavior. Its a very common struggle actually.
0:45 that's.... The best voicecrack I have ever heard 😂. I'm glad he didn't edit it out
Id like to see a Hulk film in the vein of Berserk. Dark, raw, filled with existential themes building to an explosion of rage
Michael Caboose very interesting comparison you made! I hadn’t thought about it before, but now that you mention it, I see a lot in common!
Maan, Norton in these clips looks like he's been in an insomniac and maybe even in a fight club.
Shhhhhh we don’t talk about fight club
You forgot rule number one dude.. :o
@@xblackyd.7896 what about rule number two??
And rule number two
@@junkojkp5230 exactly
A great Hulk movie would be of the theme "acceptance". We saw Banner struggling to accept who he is before, sure, but we never saw why it was so hard for him. They should show Banner now vs Banner then through flashbacks, maybe how his life used to be relatively better and how he was happy and now he's constantly on the run from Ross. It should end with him maybe saying something to Ross along the lines of "Look, you know you'll never capture me and put me in a cage for your experiments so you might as well stop trying instead of wasting your resources." Then maybe Ross lies makes a deal with Banner that he would stop hunting Banner in exchange for the promise that the Hulk would never be seen in public again. The audience would think this means we won't be seeing Hulk again but the movie would end with maybe a smirk from Banner, showing that he has now decided to be a vigilante fighting crime but he does it without ever getting caught on camera and he only continues to exist as a myth or a legend. In order to achieve this, Banner and Hulk would come to a mutual agreement by finding some way to talk to each other.
That opening music makes me want to rip out my eyes.
I am genuinely interested in reading Edward Norton's script. I want to know what that movie would have been like.
Mcu should do an Immortal Hulk adaptation where you more clearly get to see both sides of the coin, and a movie where hulk is not only pure rage but one where you get to see how hulk sees the world
👌💯
The truth is that Hulk's solo movies rights are owned by Universal, this is the reason why you won't find The Incredible Hulk on Disney+
I remember before Ragnorak was released, I watched a CZcamsr read all of Planet Hulk and World War Hulk. It was so amazing. I sat and watched for hours and cried at how terrible things had turned out for Hulk. Then Ragnorak was released and I was so conflicted. I was let down and hurt that the story had changed so much. I love the MCU and even enjoyed the movie, but I'm still sad that we never got the true PH/WWH story or even any of the background abuse from his father that Bruce had suffered. I also wish we would've gotten to actually see the transition to Professor Hulk instead of the surprise reveal. I never liked the Incredible Hulk origin movie either. But, the upside is that we still always have the comics.
Edward Norton just looks too much like a depressed man with a twisted mind.. (PERFECT BRUCE BANNER)
I agree 👍
Edward nortan after seeing your comment - i have won but at what cost ??
Norton's Hulk was awesome as a stand alone movie, but won't work as an Avenger. Norton's persona is too big to hide behind Downey and wait 15 minutes to say one sentence.
@@jakubkrivanek3112 Yup, and he looks too trashed to be by the side of the "almost perfect" Avengers, with their posture and everything
@@jakubkrivanek3112 True, but not every chatacter needs to be part of the avengers. I'd honestly would have rathered seen a norton trilogy. We never got to see his story play out. In some ways, I think they couldve made norton work in avengers. Just not in Disney's cookie cutter version. Disney bought out these characters after the first iron man release. Most people dont realize disney didnt do iron's man first film. They just slapped their label on afterwards and gave norton the boot.
Still think we need a Hulk horror film. Just take that scene from the original avengers - oof.
it could be super interesting too like a split where the twist is the big monster is the mild mannered tour guide also running from the monster. obviously we know but it could def play with the tension
Yeah hulk would be perfect for a horror film just an example the devil hulk comic
Read ‘The Immortal Hulk’ (2018). It’s an ongoing horror comic that embraces the history of the character in a way the MCU never will.
@@matthewginman8397 Immortal Hulk is so good! Imagine what they could do with him being immortal and the body horror, both from a narrative and visual standpoint! But, sadly the MCU will never do it
The modern Immortal Hulk comics are considered some of the best in the characters history and are very horror based and inspired. Marvel could work on adopting those. I just want a real hulk film.
I miss Phase 1 so much! 😩😩 Absolute best portrayal of all the characters, Hulk/Bruce especially
I need a tracklist of the songs used in this video ASAP
Why Hulk hasn’t gotten another solo movie yet?
Answer: Comcast
Venom: We are popular.
Thanks
Oh fuck the title scared me, I thought Mark Ruffalo got fired and I was like “oh no what did he do”
Spoil the movies too much 💀💀
he plays to... ruff ;) jokes aside, I am getting hit with PTSD about losing Ed Norton from the MCU, it would have been so fun to see his interpretation butting heads with RDJ's Iron man
LANGUAGE!
I wish.
Yeah I thought Mark Ruffalo was fired cuz he was spoiling their movies when I read the title XD
What's the soundtrack in the background @6:25 called?
What is the song played at the end of the video?
Norton had a darker vision for Hulk in the MCU, and I like that much more than what we got. The character isn't treated properly. Professor Hulk was a bad idea. And not only that, but they turned one of Hulk's best stories into a fucking comedic Thor film. *What the hell???*
Agreed..💯
Planet Hulk treated properly would be such an amazing watch especially with modern Marvel budgets... it's so disappointing that it was just backdrop and lip service in Ragnarok. It could have been so much more!
Norton’s version of banner and hulk are both better than the current hulk. I cringe watching hulk now
@@scoople6 watch the Planet Hulk animated movie. No masterpiece but much better.
Not really sure that would fit the over all MCU to have only hulk being dark and gritty
For decades Hulk's character has always been a tragedy. But Taika Waititi made him a comedy.
Yeah, but it's Hollywood so even getting big and turning green can't erase his cis-masculine white privilege… Just be glad they didn't put a man bun on him and make him carry a "messenger bag".
hey that sounds awfully alot like one of the jokers lines haha
A very crappy one
Lmao
@@RobKMusic What. Are you talking about.
“You. baby arms.”
Easily the funniest one liner I encountered in my sojourn through the MCU to date.
Ngl i was distracted by the "Alright" instrumental until the hulk scream at the 1min mark lol
Edward Norton was perfect as Hulk. He has the essence of hulk, two polarized personalities in one person like fight club. His face looks like he is constantly fighting something in himself.
Rule one of mcu, do not talk about a serious movie.
hulk is just too serious and too strong really
banner is a genius and i think mark gives off a more intelligent personality den norton does
I think it's wrong to say that MCU won't take serious movie. I mean Capt America trilogy is quite serious no? It's a spy movie.
The problem is that Norton is way to interfere with the writing, which I can see as future problem with MCU and Ryan Reynolds.
@@floppydisk9541 Ryan Reynolds? What do you mean?
FUN FACTS: when Hulk say leave me alone he’s actually saying that to his dad since Bruce was abused as a child
When the Hulk gets into a fight he reflecting the way he felt towards his dad
Bonus fact the Hulk existed inside Bruce's subconscious since he was a young boy
Micha Kinney how ?
@@dnn11122 so Bruce and his mother were consistently physically abused by his father. His father also called Bruce a monster because of his level of genius. So to cope with the trauma his mind created the hulk persona. Bruce struggles with severe PTSD and Multiple personality syndrome
Des Walls but why did the hulk didn’t come out earlier
chronicles ツ gamma bomb
The Incredible Hulk was the best hulk in live action.
at first i thought my spotify launched but then realised you put kdot here
With Endgame Hulk, I'd rather not see him get his own movie. This is the worst version of the Hulk now, including the Ang Lee Hulk. There is nothing interesting about him now.
I think endgame Hulk would have worked out much better if they first went with the tragic figure that Bruce Banner / Hulk was supposed to be without avoiding it. Professor Hulk was supposed to be the peak version of banner and Hulk relationship, fusing together to become one. If the Hulk and banner character we're treated I ever supposed to be in the MCU, sort of how they did in Avengers where he was looked at with fear and unpredictability. If they would have done that and then slowly reached his character Arc by the end of end game I think it would have felt much more natural instead of an off-screen gamma lab. If Banner / Hulk had gotten his own solo film in the MCU even post Avengers we could have learned a lot more about ruffolo's character. Instead Marvel decided to opt out and take the easy way and then take a 10-year Ark and do it off screen which we've been waiting for years. Despite the setbacks of Ang Lee Hulk some fans have been excited to see the Hulk and his personal Evolution it's unfortunate in my opinion that Marvel decided to ruin what the Hulk was supposed to be and now that he's Professor Hulk I don't think you'll ever get that chance to be the true monster that the Hulk really is.
@@ragnar0432 What I don't get is the sudden shift of acceptance. During that five year gap, Banner must have destroyed more cities while he was working through things. It was a high stress environment and anger is a natural reaction to stress, especially that level. Why the hell are people in Endgame cheerily embracing him? This is the Avenger everyone is scared of, and with good reason. Suddenly he becomes the dad trying to be hip and everyone is cool with him? You'd think his first scene would be him in chains and a mask pumping him full of laughing gas. Nope, just walking around, dabbing and making a fool of himself.
@@angrytheclown801 agreed, the MCU in my opinion doesn't take anything that should be taken seriously serious at all. Dmcu has unfortunately become always about getting the next laugh, the banner Hulk character unfortunately doesn't fit to this theme and had to be changed. In my opinion the MCU doesn't know Wendell at serious things be serious they always have to crack a joke and for me it can really ruin the movie sometimes or at least the moment. For example in the scene in endgame where Tony Stark first made it back to Earth, it was one of the truly emotional scenes of the movie showing Tony Stark defeated and weak. The entire atmosphere of the scene was then broken by Tony Stark making a quick joke towards rocket about him resembling a Build-A-Bear. I understand that it's part of Tony Stark's character to make light of the situation but it's not always as enjoyable as I would have been if it would been taken seriously. This example I feel wraps up the problem with the Hulk do a decent extent I don't feel that he's taken seriously and has been almost made into a joke or shadow of his former self. I'm not a huge comic person, but the whole cat multiple storylines about how powerful he was and how much The Avengers needed to control him. This wasn't done horribly in The Avengers they showed him to be a threat but over time he just became a joke something to not be taken seriously. I feel this was most prominent in Thor Ragnarok. All he was was a joke acting childlike and fumbling about, I understand that it was part of his intellectual Evolution from going from Beast to child, but I still feel like this should have been done differently more Angry more brutal is that how the Hulk is.The mcu tries to make things too child friendly and in the process can make it less enjoyable to watch. I thought your opinions were interesting and I agree with them, I just wish the MCU would have handled hole completely differently.
@@ragnar0432 If you do want to read a good Hulk story, and one that they used for Ragnarok, try Planet Hulk. You will see him the unstoppable beast and a fusion of Hulk and Banner we should have gotten. Though it does differ wildly.
In it, the Illuminati (yeah cause that screams We're the Good Guys) decided to get rid of Hulk by launching him to a deserted planet rich in food and water so he doesn't have anyone to hurt or hunting him, so he can live in peace. But the rocket ship malfunctions and crashes onto Sakaar, which you saw in Ragnarok. It doesn't have Thor in it, or silly jokes. And Hulk and Banner are working together to survive with mostly Hulk in control. So you get him talking like a regular person, but still being a tough badass.
I know you said you don't read comics, but I like recommending Planet Hulk because it's so incredibly different and a good read.
@@angrytheclown801 I've heard of Planet Hulk before, and I think the storyline is incredibly interesting ( no pun intended) you seem to know a good amount of what you're talking about when it comes to the Hulk, I'll definitely give it a try if you recommend it so highly , I thought this is a very interesting conversation and I'm glad to have had it. It's good to know that there are other fans who feels strongly about the Hulk in the MCU as I do.
it has nothing to do with story issues, the distribution rights to the Hulk is owned by Universal. Disney doesn’t want to give Universal money to distribute a movie that they can distribute themselves. The Incredible Hulk was released when Paramount was doing the MCU and they didn’t care.
Disney obviously has no respect for the character. They see him as an angry superhero rather than a man struggling with his own powers. Apparently the REAL Hulk isn’t friendly enough for a Disney label.
That's such a shitty excuse though. They won't buy the rights to Hulk when they are available again, and they haven't even attempted to buy the rights from universal themselves.
sydneyhundre d Back in the 90s Marvel as a company was struggling to get by and had to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy. They started selling off the film rights of their biggest characters to help them stay afloat. Spider-Man went to Sony, The Hulk went to Universal and Fox picked up Daredevil, Fantastic Four and The X-Men. They still owned the rights to those characters on other fronts such as animation and comics. They also merged with the toy company Toy Biz at that time and they relied on action figure sales that they released when those other studios were putting out films. They saw how successful the movies from those other studios were so they decided to make their own films based on the characters that they still could use in a movie. Iron Man was only actually picked as the first character for film because the owner of ToyBiz decided that kids would probably have more fun playing with a flying character in a robotic like suit and it was mostly his decision. Not having a big studio themselves or a distributor, they partnered with Paramount Pictures to release the movies that Marvel would produce themselves and Paramount would own the distribution rights to those films. Disney saw the potential in the build up to The Avengers and bought the entire Marvel company for 4 billion dollars. Since Disney didn’t want another distributor attached to the movies they now owned, they bought back the distribution rights from Paramount for about a hundred million dollars. Paramount/Viacom was actually offered a chance to purchase Marvel, but they turned it down because they weren’t sure how well these lesser known characters would do. I bet they’re kicking themselves for basically turning down billions of dollars that the films have now made.
Marvel actually now owns the rights to Hulk and Namor. They reverted back to them this year from Universal so a Hulk solo movie is possible if they decide to ever do one.
TheReverseEffect As of this year, Disney/Marvel now own the film rights to The Hulk. They reverted back to them from Universal. It’s not clear if the rights just expired or if Disney made a deal to get them back. Disney has been pretty quiet about the whole thing for some reason, but it was rumored to be true back in January and then confirmed by insiders familiar with the acquisition.
I think another reason the Ruffalo hulk hasn't gotten his own movie is because his version of Bruce Banner serves as a better supporting character than a main one.
What is the song in the beginning Idk if it’s a bop
They literally fired a CGI character
So the actor didn’t get fired? Just the Hulk
Ruined him in IW. hulk doesn't whimper when hit.
That’s what really upset me. The first hulk movie in the early 2000s portrayed him the best. The more damage he took the angrier he got and the bigger he grew.
@@TheBadash44 Thanos was genuinely terrifying and stronger than Hulk but okay
@@twentyfourtythree1190
Hulk never gave a shit. The dude is arrogant and believes he's always the best.
You put up a big green gamma radiation strong guy against a big purple Titan who (already epically strong without the infinity stones) had the damn power stone, I think whimpering was him trying to hold in the pain
@@samcarson5892 bruh, they just nerfed him real bad, in comics Hulk's really OP. Probably its for the power balancing of the whole MCU characters. Marvels dont always create too OP characters, they always have limitations and flaws. Compare those to the powers in in DC rn
I like how he says Ed Norton's Hulk was the first one. I guess we have all finally managed to forget those other two.
I was really sad when the high jacked the planet hulk storyline and turned it into a thor thing. That could have been a really good hulk movie and it sucks that they didn't have the guts to make it.
I will never forgive them for doing Planet Hulk dirty like that.
wym
@@homersimpson162 Thor Ragnorok incorporated Planet Hulk to a degree. Tbh, they can still do a prequel .
@@latetootheparty Ohh yea that would actually be nice i would wanna see that happen
Planet Hulk was amazing I found it a couple months ago on some app and I kept watching it while eating chicken nuggets
the animated marvel films from some years ago are nice to sort of look at for fun
It’s a shame Norton didn’t stay on, I would love to see his version
Kinda would too, actually. Curious to see what all the fuss was about.
Rights permitting: I think he should give his version of '08's Hulk another shot sometime (with him at the helm, of course), doesn't have to be MCU, it'd be fine if it was it's own separate thing.
Heck, maybe it could even be part of that "What-If?" cartoon they're doing on Disney+ soon? I'd be down for that.
I think if they want to make a stand alone hulk movie they'll need to give banner a proper arc alongside hulk showing them come to understand and work alongside each other, they tried to do that instantaneously with "that's my secret cap, I'm always angry" but I think it's more interesting if they're still in a stage of learning eachother and those emotions he showed in Ragnarok, hulk stole control from him for years and banner had to fight himself back, and in endgame where they were in one form but that was due to him defensively retreating into his shell emotionally, there is a great potential to explore their relationship in depth, the brains vs the brawn then stalemate and learn to work together is a tale as old as time, you could use that as a plot basis and really explore both Banner and Hulk's motivations, where they juxtapose and where they overlap and end it with the massive bang that is banner and hulk's motivations perfectly in sync in an awesome action sequence where hulk smashes smartly
Imagine fighting the hulk not knowing there was a Banner version and they switched out stealthily and you just see banner get ignored while the BBEG chases after where he thinks the hulk went. Banner does some calculations on BBEG's death machines before transforming into Hulk but instead of simply destroying everything it's destruction with purpose causing a chain reaction of destruction that ultimately gives them a way to defeat BBEG, it'd be great
Could you imagine the spectacle of a movie based on the Immortal Hulk run? That would be amazing.
The Incredible Hulk is severely underrated.
agreed, personally, best looking hulk
@@caspersandbakken3014 no mark ruffalo is amazing i cant imagine anyone taking his place
@@pillow2795 i mean, yeah alot of people believe that, i just personally think the incredible hulk looks better, cuz he looks like a way pissed off hulk
@@caspersandbakken3014 I think most people just prefer that they scanned mark ruffalo’s face for avengers
@@dakzevon1311 yeah i understand that, just think the incredible hulk looked meaner
Bruh the incredible hulks design was the best looked as vicious as he should have
This video was CLASS well done
Lovin the background music that starts 1:05 and 2:40
The Hulk was starting to get interesting in Age of Ultron. Then you had a somewhat further character development in Thor Ragnarok with the startling and even moving transformation scene that did an excellent job showing the mental and physical struggle between the two personalities of Bruce and Thor. The Russo brothers clearly didn’t want to continue fleshing this out any further so they took the easy way out and made him a comedic character and rushed into having him be “Hulk all the time” with him and Bruce seemingly coming to terms with each other.
Bruce/Hulk is a story of a man in constant struggle with his emotions, his past, and how all of that is tied to the force of nature that swells within him. On many levels Bruce is very relatable not just in terms of his emotional struggles but with his desire to be left alone but almost constantly finding himself in situations where he’s needed. Not just on a massive Avenger sized threat but on a basic human level. One of the things that I loved about the Hulk tv show was when Banner would get mixed up with a family or woman dealing with real problems. Whether it would be an abusive father or a crooked businessman trying to scam the family he was staying with while on the run. If they made a movie where Bruce/Hulk was like an accidental equalizer, with some super powered highjinx mixed in, and dived into his psyche I think you’d have something relatable and fun. Hopefully they do a reverse course on this massive gala mismanagement.
Uh, the Russo brothers did not write Avengers Endgame. And even so, the decision for Dr Hulk has a reason. He has made peace with being Hulk, he has accepted it, and this is a quite good character arc. The only thing I think was missing is we couldn't see that development in the five year gap between the movies. But still, you make a horrible argument.
@@ramkrishnasabat2075 you’re correct in that they don’t receive credit for having written the screenplay but interviews with the Russos in both Cinemablend and The Atlantic confirm that they had significant influence/control over subplots and character development for both Infinity War and Endgame. I can understand why it would be logical to have Banner make peace with the Hulk as a “conclusion” to his arch but to not tell that story and rush through to the end result is highly disappointing. I don’t like the creative liberties that they took with the character. It’s more of an opinion than an argument.
I don't like it when they don't wanna think too much and just make him a comic relief
I could enjoy a darker story line of Hulk
It's Disney. We won't get anything serious.
Couldn't we all
Not happening, thanks a lot Disney
Already give up for the MCU when they trying so damn hard to match Iron Man powerlevel with Hulk, I'd stick with DCEU movies even they story sucks, at least they try to stay true to the lore. 😬
the only superhero character Zack Snyder should be in charge of directing is the Hulk...
Not Superman or Batman
Anyone know the name of the song about 10 seconds in?
The music is killing me!
They could definitely make a fix if they made a mini series on the 9 months in the lab. We could see his struggle to try and connect with his other self, and assuming hes isolated he won't have any comedy to bounce off of. He could literally go insane for a few of those months coming to terms with the issue of his father and his personal guilt.
It’s sad because Bruce can be such a relatable guy, Hulk is closely tied to Banner’s psyche and that could be so fun to explore in a movie. I thought for sure after Infinity war when the Hulk legit refused to fight- I thought we were going to get some in depth look at the nature of Hulk and Bruce’s relationship. But no- it feels like such a waste of an awesome character. I love funny hulk but I wanna see something MORE
I think rather than the whole "I'm a monster" thing they should make a movie where he gets real effin angry.
Have a villain who really hates Bruce and wants to ruin him rather than a villain who is just focused on taking down the hulk or getting the Hulk's powers for themselves.
the kendrick lamar song in the beginning 💯
"Collaborative spirit" = Do what Kevin Feige and Disney CEO say, no matter what!
Every time you do what we want we will give you 100 dollars
No, it means don't rewrite the entire fucking movie while it's filming
@@whawhawhawhaaaa it ended up being trash anyway
@@lurker6918 thats what ed Norton thought but u don't rewrite the whole film my dude
This is far from the only time people called Norton hard to work with,
i’ve heard this ever since i was a teenager,, making a Hulk movie is “hard” “its not like making other superhero movies” “it’s difficult” so he has to be a side character in another superheroes movie.
Why is it so hard though, is it something i’m missing? Venom is basically the Hulk and they made his movie.
There’s tons of characters in movies that have the Bruce/Hulk dynamic and they made it work, what about Hulk specifically is so impossible for directors and studios?
to me it just seems like he isn’t marketable as a cool superhero, like spiderman, batman, and ironman, and so they don’t invest time in him.
I think he is just not that much of a hero. The Hulk does not have much motive, even while Banner has. It must be harder to come up with an easy to follow film with a character that only wants to smash. At least you need a strong opposing force then to move the plot forwards.
It's mostly because a different studio owns the rights to a solo Hulk film like how Sony owns Spider-Man movie rights. But also they saw how Hulk underperformed when super hero movies were still in their infancy and theyrr scared to take a risk again, especially now that most of the movies they make are blockbusters. I'd much rather Banner/Hulk show up in a Disney+ show where they can develop the character more
I feel like it can't be the marketing thing because way back in the late 90's/early 2000's Hulk was BIG. Everyone knew him, Hulk merch was everywhere, at least one kid was Hulk for Halloween at my elementary school every year. He was very marketable a while back.
Why do you think he is less marketable? Because before the mcu he was literally the second most popular marvel hero. He is harder than eg venom because eddie brock is also someone who does intresting things and the symbiote isnt a one trick pony. It has more of a personality than the hulk, the hulk basically just smashes things and other than that wants to be left alone.
Venom and hulk are much more different then you think. I don’t think a hulk movie is particularly “hard” or easy to make it is just that it might be to dark for mcu with banner being abused by his father and said father beating his wife to death in front of banner and then banner killing him on accident when his older. And that’s really only the tip of the ice berg i mean they have barely enough talked about Bruce’s multiple personality disorder.
love the kendrick beat in the intro
Song in the beginning?
Its oddly unsettling hearing Alright sound like that at the beginning 😂
Dude fr like let the beat drop
Yeah, same here
Fr, I was waiting for the beat drop for ages