Taravangian | Rhythm of War Shardcast
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- čas přidán 6. 12. 2020
- This week's episode of Shardcast is a bit late, but it's time to talk about Taravangian! This one has big Rhythm of War and cosmere spoilers so beware.
Our cast this week is Eric (Chaos), Ian (Weiry), Grace (thegatorgirl), and Marvin (Paleo)!
Thumbnail art of Taravangian is Mastermind, by Ari Ibarra, from Call to Adventure: The Stormlight Archive: www.artstation.com/artwork/g2...
Art that is in Marvin's background by taratjah: pBumPwumnj...
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Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to wtcc@17thshard.com - Zábava
Cultivation rolled a crit on her future-sight check, but I can't tell if it was a critical fail or critical success.
lmao yeah
I honestly think she’s a moron totally ruled by her shard or she’s become a complete nihilist and just wants it all to die.
Zack Glenn she has outsmarted and out planned everyone at every turn I think there is no way she doesn’t know what taravangian plans to do
@@forrestdorman4870 right her growing a new person into being a shard is more important than saving anyone. I don't think she's a moron but I do think she may not have fully considered the consequences of her actions.
"New Vessel, who dis?"- Taravangian, interacting with the other shards, circa 1177
Bless you. I was worried for my exam tomorrow and you made me laugh. Have a good day :)
@@elsecallermuu8552 Happy to help :)
It would be hilarious if the vessels had some sort of Cosmere group chat going on.
@@jessi4894 What if the chat said Odium has updated their vessel and we see Teravangian pretending to be Rayse?
“This is conflicting” - Sazed replying to Taravangian, circa 1177
I think that Hoid just put the perfect amount of breath in order to have Second Heightening
(perfect pitch). If any shard messes with his memories, he will know cause he lost the perfect pitch (as he shows trying to whistle).
Me 2 days ago: Tarvagian must have done _something_ for them to make a whole ass podcast about him
Me now:
I was a bit shocked that Rayse went out like that. That was very sudden. And Renarin knew, he totally knew.
And was sorry for Taravangian, right?
@@Fibonochos I strongly suspect that Renarin was sorry for having put him directly onto the path of taking up the Odium shard. But knowing Sanderson, it might have a double meaning that I haven't figured out yet.
@@jessi4894 I have a feeling Renarin saw that Taravangian is going to go through some really messed up stuff and that he is gonna have a bad time. Is what he saw accurate? No clue. I still think that's what he saw
I thought Renarin just saw that Szeth was coming for him.
@@nathanharris8896 i don't think so, but I could be wrong
Taravangian becoming Odium makes me think of a quote from Age of Ultron, “Ultron cannot tell the difference between saving the world and ending it...”
I am really surprised that no one mentioned the idea of having a Kharbranthian as Dalinar champion since odium cannot harm anyone from there.
Maybe his champion could though
@@josiah9712 I dunno if that were the case he could just send the fused to attack Kharbranth and the deal would be pointless, fused can (presumably) attack when not under his orders but not (presumably) those who follow him like his champion would.
Use Taravangians own daughter. 🤔
Dalinar does not know about that deal.
It happened between Taravangian and Odium and Mr. T made no mention of it.
Maybe Kaladin, I think his mother was Kharbranthian, and the deal Tarvangian made with Odium includes the whole family.
The loophole is what happens if there is a tie. Wit alludes to this when talking about rigging card games. He never planned for a tie and then lost everything. Pretty sure this is predicting that Todium will find a way to make the contest of champions a tie. What the consequences of that are I’m unsure though
I was coming here to comment this. Odium is bound to the system if he wins or loses, but if it's a tie maybe he can just leave.
Or the loophole is that there is no time limit. If both champions refuse to kill each other, then that "duel" goes on for years or even decades.
@@faultier1158 nah. Decades mean nothing to a shard...
Todium ? is that a typo or T(aranvigian)Odium
On one hand Wit planned for a tie, on the other hand T took Wit’s memories
Taravangian is all "help I've fallen and I can't get up
And harmony is all "oh poor old man I'll help you"
Boom interplanetary conflict sparks
Past Me: "Oh boy, I have been waiting for this epsiode like Rayse waiting for the contest of Champions"
Present me: ... oh... about that
Nightblood goes swosh swosh
You guys talk about Todd taking up Cultivation, but...
Cultivation does say to him: "I had changed you into someone who could bear this power with HONOR."
I enjoy this implication
OMGOMGO
This one took a long time to edit; sorry for this not coming earlier this weekend. -Eric
Thanks for this! Appreciate your hard work
Cultivation making a mistake? She wanted vengeance on Rayse for killing her lover. Check.
Tanavast is Donkey, confirmed
@@jmcauley650 So Tanavast became a believer only after he saw her face? This checks out.
@@zorbagrecu8581 There's not a trace of doubt in my mind.
Taravodium is the PERFECT foil for Dalinar, *especially* if Dalinar somehow ascends to Honor.
Dalinar's whole thing is 'Journey before Destination' while Mr. T's schtick is "The ends justify the means"
Also crackpot theory: Moash/Vyre shows up with Hemalurgic spike eyes as TOdium's Champion
To me personally, "the greater war of the surges" is definitely Roshar vs Scadrial vs the Eelakin alliance (whoever Dusk goes to for help, presumably Sel)
i was so dreading doing the dishes, THANK YOU FOR SAVING MY DAY
Lol, I listen while doing dishes too
Literally same 😂
Literally the same but with laundry!
Literally same but I was plotting how to send agents to control the Cosmere. I mean do dishes.
Same
In the Dec 17th livestream there's a WOB saying Odium excised and remove a part of Hoid's breath which sounds more like he just removed memories rather than altered them
Here’s something to consider. Dalinar and Odium’s contract had clearly-defined clauses for both winning and losing. But one thing that it doesn’t even touch upon is what happens in the event that the contest somehow ends in a draw (i.e. the two Champions KO each other). I could easily see Taravangian viewing that as a valid loophole in the contract that would effectively render the contest finished, but free him of any sort of terms.
I like it. I didn't consider a draw but I was thinking that the loophole could be a stalemate (i.e. neither champion wants to hurt/kill the other).
In the epilogue, I think Taravangian is experiencing the memories that Hoid stored in the Breaths, and he is going to know all the Shards as well as Hoid knows them.
Brandon said in his spoiler stream that he didn’t have access to any of the memories
Watch Lost in Discovery's video on the Epilogue! I agree with him, Hoid anticipated the whole thing and is probably giggling knowingly inwardly
Correction: Endowment said RAYSE will be dealt with if he becomes a problem. She didn’t say Odium.
Heh, out of context, the bottom right quadrant looks like one of the Taravangians is named Marvin and the other is named Paleo.
There are two ways to read the epilogue, a straight read where Taravangian screws over Hoid and a second one where Hoid is the one screwing up Taravangian by feeding him exactly what he wants Taravangian to see.
The content of Hoid monologue during the epilogue is all about misdirection. About how to surprise the audience you have to make them look the other way, and that is better when the audience itself knows what they are seeing is a trick.
What Brandon himself does in the novel regarding Navani bonding Sibling, makes total sense from the beginning of the novel, you know it can be cool, you feel it's right but then Brandon introduces the idea that Rlain is the one who will be bonding Sibling... and that makes you doubt. But in the end, he just confirms your first assertion.
that's the Dirty Trick and the epilogue could be doing it to ourselves or Hoid could be doing it to Odium.
Interesting detail: The conversation between Hoid and Odium happens twice and yet, the second time, Hoid uses different words to express the same ideas, while Odium just repeats the same words as before.
Have you perhaps seen Lost in Discovery's video on this?
@@Funilesh I don't know that channel. I'll look for it :)
@@Funilesh I just watched it. Nice to see someone with the same opinion as me. Although the most general reaction is that Hoid got screwed. We just can RAFO this.
My theory on the "loophole": The wording of the deal boils down to "If Dalinar wins, Odium is bound. If Odium wins, Odium bound." So.. what if neither of them win?
yeah especially with that story from wit about his gambling, rigging a game so that someone couldn't win but who couldn't also lose and wit by wording the agreement so that he lost money whenever he failed to win.
If taravangian gets free I could absolutely see him going to see if he can pick up the scraps of the splintered shards. Hit up Harmony to see how holding 2 shards affect him. Then go pick up Ambition, then Dominion. Both would seem to fit right up his alley.
Now that I’ve thought about it he also see himself as a kind of martyr how is willing to “serve” others by doing things that “need” to be done so devotion also kind of fits
Cultivation's plans not working makes the times it does work, more impactful...but what could be more impactful that the possible mistake of elevating Taravangian into Odium? It's absolutely terrifying.
Yeah, I definitely think Cultivation fudged up in letting Taravangian take the Odium shard. Seems like Cultivation never heard the saying "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know"
Kaladin swears his fifth ideal and its something about protecting others at the cost of sacrificing himself & Syl. Him and Syl have a last conversation (where Syl has reached full emotional maturity & wants to sacrifice herself rather than letting the people around her die-like her old radiant. And Kaladin finally gets to protect everyone at the cost of himself.)
That or Kal tries to do this but Syl forces him to let her sacrifice herself and let Kal survive. Syl wanting to do this for Kal like her radiant did for her. And Kal retires as a mental health expert for the back five.
"I love Odi-yum. I eat a ton every day and it makes me awesome."
- anonymous edgedancer
"Don't trouble yourself, he thought. This is working" ..... this reads to me as an outside influenced thought to Hoid and not fully his own
The surgeon's prediction was wrong. I had the court wrapped three times around my neck and was fine. It's not automatically going to cause brain damage. I don't think he could have built a life long friendship with Adrotagia if he'd been anything but very intelligent normally.
"The “diminished capacity” hadn’t appeared, but the reputation had chased Taravangian from childhood, so pervasive in people’s minds that not a one had seen through his recent act of stupidity, which they’d attributed to a stroke or to simple senility. Or maybe, some said, that was the way he’d always been."
OB 571
Prediction for kal oath 5: “I am willing to sacrifice some to save more. Even if I must sacrifice myself” or something to that effect. I think it has to build on the 4th in some way and this make the most sense to me. But there are some flaws, primarily that it goes against his personality in my opinion. I think the only person he’s willing to sacrifice is himself.
ooh this is juicy
A theory lodged into my head about the main antagonist of book 6-10.
I think, Cultivation is going to merge with the Shard of Odium. This is why:
During the Navani Raboniel brainstorming sessions, there was a glaring omission. Neither of them suggested, or even had a passing thought about mixing voidlight with lifelight. Both of them were scholars of wide branching interests, they had the method, they had the materials, they even had the free time. Raboniel learned a completely new rhythm from the storm-void mixture, so why not find out how the life-void mixture sounded like?
I couldn't think of a single excuse to this, unless the author himself wanted to avoid attention, because naming the rhythm of the light would give away the antagonist of a future book.
So what do we get if we mix the two? A tone of chaos mixed with the tone of ever-building majesty? A tone, which makes chaos build something majestic? It sounds a lot like the Rhythm of Evolution.
The chaotic shuffling of genes, and the passionate struggle for survival mixed with the uncaring selective pressure of nature. Nature, which is slowly changing, thus forcing everything around it to endlessly adapt and improve.
And to make it more interesting, add to this the intelligent guidance of selective breeding, and the power to grow whatever you want.
This works SO well. Cultivation has been established as an entity lacking of passion. She doesn't care what she grows, she only cares about growth itself. For her a boon and a curse are equally valid growths. But add passion to the mix and suddenly she can have directions and great goals.
I suspect, that the Shard Cultivation literally cannot have passion for her creations. Its Vessel Koravari might want to have it, but the Shard resists. We learned in RoW that Shards and their Vessels can have opposing desires, and usually the Shards win. If Koravari took Odium, she could finally grow things with unbridled passion.
But to what end? What would this mean for the Cosmere at large? Well, there is the utterly terrifying image of a rapidly evolving godlike zerg species taking over worlds, but I think that is just the means to an end. So what is the end goal for the God of Evolution?
I think she wants to grow, to evolve back into Adonalsium itself. She wants to merge all the shards, and probably try to recreate the dead shards too. This might be possible if we look at it through evolutionary principles. Without getting too technical, for example if an apex predator dies, that opens up a niche, a spot where another species could evolve into, thus taking its previous role. A similar yet unknown principle could exist in the Cosmere. Maybe the Shards that have died left their imprints, which divine evolution could fill up.
Who could better accomplish this than a god whose very nature is to change and adapt? To build itself to become ever greater?
This seems like the sort of villain Sanderson would write for his endgame. Odium is kind of a bog standard world conquering maniac who wants to become the sole god of everything. Not nearly interesting enough to keep until book 10.
There are other clues to Cultivation being up to something big:
Book 6 will be focused on Lift. This is important, because Cultivation has only ever touched three mortals. With Dalinar, she stole Odium's champion. With Taravangian, she stole his vessel. But we still have Lift. She has to have an equally grand role in the coming events, but what else is left to be stolen, other than the very Shard itself?
The powers that Cultivation gave her are quite telling too. She can enter and manipulate the visions of gods, the same place where Rayse just got killed. She also uses the light of cultivation exclusively, and has some hidden property to not get changed (Resist the influence of a Shard maybe, but able to seed it with lifelight? We have to wait for future books to learn.) Point is, she reeks of Cultivation, and if we keep with the pattern, this will somehow oppose Odium.
(This was my theory that I copy-pasted from the 17th shard forum)
Cultivation doesn't bestow bloons and curses.
The night mother does.
@@BinarySecond Cultivation was literally the one who gave Dalinar and Taravangian their boons/curses. Cultivation told the Night Mother that what Dalinar, and presumably Taravangian, asked for was beyond it, so Cultivation had to step in to grant them what they wanted.
Of course Cultivation will die. She has visited 3 people in the Night Mothers place. Dalinar will become Honour, Taravangian is already Odium, and Lift will become Cultivation.
Oh my godddd...I just...Idk if I could handle that much Lift in the cosmere.
It's alright, all 3 vessels will then die so Renarin can take up the shards on his path to reforming Adonalsium
Brandon rarely does things so obviously... Lift and Dalinar as Shards seems too obvious to me.
Oh fuck
It would be hilarious if Lift became Cultivation. When I think of her in a position of power I think of her as your pancakefullness
Hoid was also playing with a coin in that scene! A coin, on Roshar, where they use gemstones as money, the coin could very well be a copperming in which he dumped his own memory of planning and execution of deciding to dupe Todium! The chapter's called Dirty Tricks for Adonalsium's sake!
Late reply, but i really like this theory
I the Hoid's description of the person that waits a nudges the Boulder fits Cultivation SO well
There is a connection to connection between Taravangian and Dalinar, Bondsmith Shenanigans?
Cultivation is all about, well, cultivating, progressing, developing, moving things forward, right? No matter towards what goal. So I think she'll be ok with whatever outcome this turn of events will bring as long as this standstill conflict that repeats over and over will end. As long as things can progress it's supposed to be ok with her. At least it's so in my mind...
I was starting to feel bad for Mr T and then THIS HAPPENS ?? !!
I pity the fool!
Mistah T!
Brandon's definition of avatars is not wrong. Avatars of Hindu gods are still separate and capable of having independent and different personalities from each other.
The question, I think, should be how much of Hoid's memories were destroyed. Was it just the meeting or did he destroy all of Hoid's Breaths and therefore all memories stored in them?
I haven't read Warbreaker in a while, but didn't we see Vasher tell a girl a Command to erase her own memory? Maybe Breath has cognitive (and maybe spiritual) Commands we don't know about yet.
The scene your describing did happen, just recently read war breaker and I remember what your talking about
At first I was worried about Hoid's Breaths being destroyed but then I remembered that he has that fortune thing going on with him and he wouldn't have been there if it wasn't necessary so I was, like, nevermind.
And hoid was neverminded too
@@Fibonochos lol. Well, he forgot, so...
@@geosustento8894 book five is going to be so fun. Like hero of ages kinda fun (:-})
@@Fibonochos I am hearing the voices of Vin and Elend from the spiritual realm calling you a monster.
@@vamsiampolu8438 hey, just cause the world was ending horribly, like being slowly strangled by a god, doesn't mean that they didn't have fun.... and by fun I mean were terrified out of there skulls
I think from the reading that an undefined period of time passed while Odium messed with his memory. No idea how fast he can work in the memory either. I think there's every reason to believe he altered an unknown number of memories in that scene and THEN erased the memory of the confrontation in full at the end and repeated the conversation to refill the expected conversation Hoid expected to have to try to smooth over any suspicion of changes.
Also, how I read the perfect pitch thing to begin with was that enough breath had been destroyed to lower Hoid's heightening in bio chroma. That implied to me that a significant amount of memory/breath was tampered with or destroyed.
Now I want Sir Patrick Stewart as Taravangian
In regards to the epilogue and Hoid, I read it more as TOdium did something to disrupt Hoids ability to store memories in the breath and repeated the conversation as many times as was necessary to get the information he needed for the showdown, then repeated the conversation once more to let Hoid think he won.
got into this after RoW came, really enjoying your content! Thanks for all the work and long long detailed discussions
One day you guys will have an actual sponser and everyone will be confused as to how nord vpn is a cosmere pun
You know what they say, their are two types of people, those who backup and those who have never lost their data. I wonder which one is Wit. Maybe he has some copies of his memories (if that's possible I guess he's the one who would know) and once he realizes something is wrong he will compare them.
Backing up memory is exactly what copper feruchemy does. And Ruin could interfere with it. Presumably what Hoid did with Breath was based on copperminds.
@@carl11547 Yes but unless I'm remembering incorrectly, the memory stays in one place only since it's an end neutral system. So it's either in their head or their copperminds, so it's not exactly a backup since it's the only copy of the memory. I'm wondering if there can be two copperminds with the same memories stored or maybe the same memory in a coppermind and breaths. If it's possible then Hoid could very well have stored a copy somewhere else not on his person so that it can't be messed with. But from his comments it doesn't seem like that was the case.
Crack pot theory: What if Vasher gave up Nightblood to Cultivation/Nightwatcher in exchange to gain the ability to access Lifelight (instead of Stormlight, it always felt weird that he could just breathe in Stormlight to sustain himself yet we never see him do it).
I like that theory!
@@josephreusch There might also be a simpler solution. He could have got an Honorblade, given how easily the Shin seems to be losing them, but it depends on whether or not he knew about them in the first place. Maybe he could've exchanged an Honorblade for Nightblood with the Nightwatcher, that would tie it up better, but then for that, you need the Nightwatcher to have (access to) an Honorblade.
I just like Lifelight/Cultivation shenanigans too much to let it go, and Vasher seems to not like hanging around crazy swords with magic powers these days, so I doubt he would exchange one magic sword for another.
@@Haxerous I don't think Vasher would let someone else have nightblood unless he absolutely trusted them with it. He killed his own wife to keep nightblood out of the hands of those who would use him or seek to replicate him. He may have given it to cultivation trusting her with it. I can't think he would have ever given it to Nale. There is a lot we don't know. But nightblood is not just some magic sword he is THE Magic Sword. Honorblade is a child's toy by comparison.
@@josephreusch maybe it was just the cost she demanded for allowing him thru/into roshar.
I'm sure we'll learn more about what happened with Vasher when we learn more about the Horneaters, and Cultivation's Perpendicularity
Woop Woop, updated Taravangian episode. Been waiting for this since I was blown away by his Apotheosis / Ascension
Ian during the odi-yum ad break cracked me up lol
If Shallan dies, how is she going to become the new Autonomy?
Also: “rayse-ins” ... Bravissimo.
The “We Killed You” I felt was the last thing we needed to know about Rayse. But I got my first WOB and RAFO asking if we would ever know more about that and Brandon said he isn’t sure he’ll go into that more or not.
Had a genuinely evil snicker when I saw this and clicked immediately. Been looking forward to this one!
Taravangian broke the agreement concerning Kharbranth before he ascended. You hardly serve a master whom you kill. Even if he is technically bound to it, it produces no obligations.
Just wondering if Cultivation's "gift" still works. Like Taravangian's Intelligence/compassion still continue to flip flop or is it gone? Because, from what it looked, Cultivation towards the end was starting to seem to have somewhat direct control over that and was making Taravangian more stupid/compassionate. I am thinking that Connection between them still exists and Cultivation could still proabaly manipulate him.
is it possible Hoid was carrying just enough Breaths that he was able to tell they were being tampered with when he lost perfect pitch? He could have playing 4D chess there.
4D?!?! That mans in double digits!! He said his interaction with Odium in so many years went exactly as he anticipated!
He knew
Oh wow I'm remembered! I'm acknowledged! It's probably not from WOBs because I have exactly one and its not terribly exciting.
Saw this upload in my notifications and immediately felt a sense of dread. Oh Taravangian
When reading RoW I thought that the smart (and compassion lacking) days of Taravangian was the curse, let me explain:
When we see how Cultivation affected Dalinar we see that he got his memories back little by little up until he got them all, this was a gamble by Cultivation to make Dalinar able to withstand Odium's (Rayse), so we could say that the fact that Dalinar got his memories back was part of Cultivation's plan.
When we compare what happened to Dalinar (his curse -the lack of memories of Evi-) to Taravangian (his curse -the smart and lack of compassion-) we see similarities, the smart days of Taravangian were becoming more and more rare (this is insisted upon over and over again) and his days of full compassion were coming more and more, close to what Dalinar experienced when he got his memories back little by little. From that I believed that the 'curse' placed upon Taravangian was his smart (and sociopathic) days.
I still believe that Taravangian has a part to play in Cultivation scheme because we see that the other who interacted with Cultivation is losing her boon. Lift is growing, she is losing what Cultivation gave to her, just like Dalinar and Taravangian so... I don't really know what role she will play in the next book but man I'm sure she'll be in some deep waters next.
I needed this podcast so much. :D
I assumed the greater war of the surges was just Odium planning to strike out at the cosmere and kill the more careful shards.
Odium can't leave roshar but his forces can, or of he takes another shard and would then no longer be odium he could then leave
Would night blood remember killing rayes and being wielded by taravangian ? Would he tell Seth is he knew?
I'm guessing not. He still thinks Shashara is alive.
He loses consciousness when he's drawn. So I doubt he knew what happened.
Nightblood never remembers what happens when he's drawn
My question is: how is Nightblood going to be influenced by killing a Shardvessel? Absorbing so much investiture will probably have an effect on their mind. For the first time, we saw Nightblood "eating until is full".
@@ilregiallo4151 that too odiuous investiture
Been waiting for the stream of new content to start. Love u all
Odium could've simply Unmade some of Hoid's breaths like Rayse has done to Sja-Anat in the past. His breaths have memories, and memories are what makes a person (kinda, and affect who they are), so he could in theory do this in a similar manner I think. Like investiture can gain/retain memories and personality in Cognitive Shadows, so this could be similar.
With the interactions between Autonomy and Odium, we know that the fused had some level of access to the white sand which seems to suggest that they have access to more of it despite Taldain being isolated.
Yesss! I love the Cosmere Sponsor Spots! I can't believe that none of the other sponsors have returned yet.
Is the buzzing of Obeeum the pure tone of Odium then(?)
I don't think shards can directly manipulate minds without consent, but that doesn't really provide a satisfying answer for why the memories were instantly dumped into the breath, beyond just assuming as Ian said that Hoid has figured out how to access them live, or some other reason that removes the normal downside of copperminds, and as such sees no reason not to just instantly store everything in Breath.
Probably prevents information decay like a coppermind
I love Grace's idea about Taravangian picking up Cultivation. We know that Honor and Cultivation were warring against Odium, but we don't know that this war was against the power. It might've been against Rayse specifically, and maybe her plan has been the greater war, for which she might need the power of Odium. Odium, passion and hatred, combined with the long game aspect of Cultivation would be perfect for that long war, but also storming terrifying.
6:00 that Cultivation with gambling problem joke was pretty funny
If T can figure out how to pick up a splintered shard, he could pick up 4 more shards real quick.
As of "now" in the Cosmere, no one has ever unsplintered a Shard. Picked up an intact Shard, yes, but not fixed one that has been fractured.
“I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted.” - seems to extend even to memories in breaths (which is reminiscent of copperminds as well, which Ruin could manipulate).
I think kaladin will survive. His whole journey was him questioning why he survives. I think it is important, especially with the mental health themes of the series, that kaladin accepts his life and survives, at least through the next book or two
Taravangian calling other shards like "New vessel who dis?"
1:21:18 I think Cultivation intended for it to NOT be permanent. After all, Dalinar regained his memory at a very particular moment.
I feel that Cultivation wants Dalinar to become the new Honor. That the two to keep each other in check.
I don’t think Dallinar is going to die, (Brandon named his son after him)
You are viewing Cultivation as a force for good. She is a force for ... well ... cultivating stuff. If she has to clear a forest to till the fields, she will. Is that good or bad? Are you tree or wheat? You have to ask "good for whom"? Why would she wish for a matching vessel for Odium?
I don’t know if the rules of Shards allow this, but what if Cultivation just shows up to the contest of champions as well, and enters her own champion? Probably not how it works, but that would definitely complicate things one way or the other
Since she wants apart of the contract I think interference in any way especially something as big as that would be not possible
*wasn’t
BAM's imprisonment was supposed to have affected all living beings native to Roashar, including spren. I am wondering if/how that also affected the Heralds and might be linked to their madness to some extent as well. Maybe unsealing BAM could bring back the dead eyes even.
I think we tend to imagine Cultivation way too aligned with our sensibilities. The intent is...pretty neutral, and, a bit like Preservation being hindered in disposing of Ruin because of the intent, Cultivation might not really care whether Odium conquers the entire Cosmere, if it’s to “cultivate” it into its better self. You do have to plough and break the ground, or, as we’ve seen her do, prune - imposing your will to Cultivate, so what our sensibilities might consider a mistake, might not be viewed the same way by her. I shall also point out that Taravangian’s polarisation did also somewhat train him towards dealing with conflicting pulsions. Having to trust his plotting when “weak of mind” against what he was feeling sounds awfully a lot like scheming vs being overwhelmed by the intent.
She certainly had a grudge with Rayse, but that has been dealt with.
Spoilers for Mistborn: Secret History
When Kelsier meets preservations Leras LOOOOVES the Lord Ruler lol. Preservations just wanted to see their people survive. Didn't matter to Preservation what they did while living.
Well, Harmony seems pretty sure that the Shard interfering in Scadrial is one of the shards who are hidden from him, and that do not respond to him.
DUUUUUUUUUUUDE you guys are totally right about the Karbranth thing! it is likely that if Odium manages to outmaneuver Dalinar (through a tie for instance) that it'll be the only place saved from Odium and Kaladin will be there to continue his training as a surgeon!!!
Returned to this after a recent re-read of ROW.
Shard Wars. Someone, somewhere MUST have coined this term by now 😂
Eric @1:05:30 "im just more confused" same mate, same
I was reading way of kings again and how brandon was building teravangian to oppose dalinar..because jasnah told shallan that teravangian remind her of dalinar..that was so cool..
Rayse _did_ take the form of an old malen singer when he showed up to the singers, so maybe he was hiding the fact that he was a human from them? Or maybe that was only for the regals and regular troops, but the fused know it (kinda crazy to think he'd keep that secret for literally thousands of years and nobody would find out)
My RAFO shirt is in the mail! Soon I will be able to match too! 😆
IF ANYTHING HAPPENS TO THOSE TWO BEAUTIFUL KHOLIN BROTHERS I WILL BURN MY WHOLE TOWN DOWN
From what i remember, Nale world hops to Warbreaker in one of the Novellas in Arcanum Unbounded and steals nightblood and hops off world immediately. And Vasher and Vivenna chased after.
Nah, that hasn't been written anywhere, although it seems likely to be what happens.
If that hasn't been written how do i remember the story of Vasher, Vivenna and Hoid by a lake after or during the sword steal... hmm i may need to dig for this story I am remembering where this happens.
@@TheThunder005 No idea haha, there wasn't anything on the wiki, and I double checked the stories in ars arcanum. Could be a fan story or WOB maybe?
@@TheThunder005 do tell me if you figure out where this is from quite curious
Nale can't worldhop. Like all the Heralds, he can't leave the Rosharan system.
Spoiler for Mistborn Secret History and Rythm of War
Kelsier was weaker when he ascended to Preservation because he wasn’t connected to the physical realm. Taravangian was technically dead by the time he killed Rayse right? If he was, he is not connected to the physical realm and that mean that he would be weaker than Rayse was in his position
While re-reading the scene it said that he felt a snap as Szeth killed him. I think that snapping was his ties to the physical.
So cultivation prepped Taravangian to take up Odium.
Does that mean she's prepped Dalinar to take up Honor and Lift to take up her power?
Maybe Cultivation prepped even further than that and groomed Dalinar to unsplinter Honor, defeat T-Odium, and take up both Honor and Odium to become War? Both shards would suit Dalinar pretty well given his past self and present self.
/Warbreaker/ is one of the most important books in the Cosmere. And that is not at all obvious when first reading it.
Weiry aka He Who Correctly Defines
new vessel just dropped
Just saw this part of the diagram in a reread.... so weird with what we know now. "You must become king. Of everything."
Kaladen is the twinkie of the Roshar. He remains when all else disintegrates.
So since Cultivation tampered with Ol' Tara does that give him a link to taking Cultivation's power like Sazed?
Listened to this while making gingerbread loaf!
Eric, I love your puns. 😂
Odium winning sets up a multi-planetary shard crusade. The human Rosharans becoming the bad guys for the later Cosmere books.