Trying something new on this one, to put quotes on screen while we read them when we aren't on WoB mode. It seemed quite useful on this one. Hopefully you liked it? -Eric
A thought on excisers: Brandon loves finding the perfect words in his stories. Excise relates to cutting not stabbing. I think the excisers are a new form of hemalourgy that only cut out a part of something.
oh boy, what have I done. just found out about you guys and now that the video is over I want to watch all your other Potcasts as well. bye bye other hobbies.
I love this stuff because you folks are clearly so…. INVESTED in it. I’m honestly not sure how the magitech is going to work but I’ll be shocked if “excisors” aren’t a non lethal option for hemalurgy
Regarding the Nicrosil Problem discussed around the 1 hour mark: I imagine it's similar to how anyone can burn Lerasium, despite the fact that Lerasium gives you the ability to burn metals.
Possibly crazy theory- Unkeyed and unsealed metalminds were designed to replicate lerasium's ability to bypass connection and identity. Unkeyed bypass identity by allowing any other allomancer/ feruchemist to use them, and Unsealed bypass identity and connection by allowing anyone to use them regardless of previous abilities/ lack thereof
About Identity, I recently realized something: a larkin can basically ignore Identity while feeding. Think about it: a Radiant can't take another Surgebinder's light, while they hold investiture that investiture is bonded to them, same when they invest the light in an outside object. For example, Shallan can create illusion with stormlight, they are HER illusion, and she can take back the light. No other radiant can steal that investiture. Same for the Breaths, you can't steal them away, and part of the previous owner Identity remains in the breath. But Larkins can take all the investiture they want without problems. It means they can ignore or overwrite Identity, and/or Connection. I wonder how their power would work with metalmind. Larkins are scary.
That is something I had internalized as a rule, but never really thought about and yeah, you are dead on. only exception would be I think they can only utilize Xlight, and not other types of investiture
In general, investivores don't seem to have issues with identity. Returned can apparently live off is stormlight instead of just breaths, and Nightblood seem to be able to eat pretty much anything. Something about metabolizing the investiture seems to strip it of identity, or more startlingly, actually converts the identity to that of the investivore.
@@xHTxRaptorF22 Brandon once said they could steal Zaheel's Divine Breath, so they can steal breaths too. Maybe they can eat all kinds of gaseous investiture (=lights).
@@ilregiallo4151 Hmm, I actually forgot about that part. My first thought is maybe Zahel and by association Azure are different as they have changed and adapted to using stormlight already, I would be curious if you could use a larkin for people who dont have any connection to roshar as well. I think this is a situation where Identity and Connection get used interchangably, but mean different things. I think Larkins are hitting the connection part of investiture but not the identity.
Looking at how flexible Bondsmith powers are, I wouldn't be surprised if Connection Feruchemy is quite flexible too. Other metallic art powers can be quite complex. Steel allomancy seems simple, but when you burn steel, you have the basic mode where you can detect metal around you, but you're not pushing on anything, and then using Intent, you can select specific things to push, or just generally push on all metal in a certain direction, or all metal around you. So even a seemingly simple power like steel has Intent shenanigans. I could see Connection Feruchemy being just as nuanced, if not moreso.
In the quote from Bands at 1:25:58 Allik specifically says the Southerners had no Metalborn when Kelsier found them. I think one of the ways Harmony may have been involved in saving them is in creating Metalborn among them, either through ettmetal, lerasium or some new mechanic.
With the communication medallion it seems like it works as a relative link, not an absolute link. I think he described it as blank connection because the medallion is going "look around yourself and find the primary language spoken in the area" as opposed to "find Elendel, find the primary language spoken there, use that" or even "find Wax, connect to him and use his native language." It's "blank" as in fill in the blank. This way you can go to different places and use the same medallion. Dalinar seems to directly connect to someone else and use their native language. With Dalinar it's fine and probably better because he can do it at will on the drop of a hat, even tailored for the individual. If the medallion did that it would work fine for that one language, but couldn't be used anywhere else. It might also have times where even if it's the same language if you're in a different region with a very different accent it won't adapt to the local dialect. Even with the relative link type you have the problem of multiple languages in an area. For ex in the southern US there's tons of Spanish speakers, but it's going to give you English because that's the primary language of the area. You have a nifty universal translator but you still might not be able to use it to talk to the person you want to. Dalinar doesn't have to worry about that. Frankly with Dalinar I suspect there's a way he could speak to a room full of people who all speak different languages, all of them hearing their native language. This is obviously much more complicated than the standard connection translation we've seen him do, but he *is* a bondsmith, connection is kind of their thing
I think that stored connection is definitely not inherently blank. Also, the non-ferrings tapping nicrosil with unsealed metalminds problem has been bugging me for years so thanks for giving me theory ideas to ponder about it.
I'm a very character-focused reader, so I didn't follow most of this, but I like listening to you guys talk, so the Cast was a win for me, as always. Thanks guys!
I like the idea of mechanical hemalurgy and seeing how the different magic systems are advanced to the future. I think of like advances in technology in our world and how past generations would look at what we have now as magic but to us we know how it works and is science. And Brandon has said to someone like Khriss the magics of the Cosmere are all science. I am getting more excited for the next Mistborn book!
Regarding the coin Ben mentions at 53:17, Eric if you haven't already you should look up the Canadian two-dollar coin. It's also two different metals, one in a ring around the other
Being “brain dead” is basically how organ donation happens at all. You need someone who is being kept physically breathing/heart beating to keep the organs to be donated healthy but who is, in fact, dead. This determination is usually made based on clinical observation and a brain death imaging study (uses nuclear medicine here in the US, other parts of the world get basically the same information with ultrasound).
Still wonder about the additional power source in the Bands. "His resources were diminishing. Not merely the metals inside of him, but the reserves stored inside the Bands. Stores that changed his level of Investiture." So I assume that this is just a seperate nicrosil section, filled with raw investiture - presumably the Mists. And by using that in conjunction with what Wax got from burning the metals he could push on traceminerals and see souls with Allomantic steel and so on. But if that ran out, would he still be able to use Allomancy at normal strength or is that store critical to the Bands functioning?
Era 2 aren’t really my favourite Cosmere books, so I’m glad to have podcasts like this which go in depth into the mechanics and help me understand some things better when they didn’t really stick on my first reading. Thanks, 17th Shard!
8:00 Rhythm of War at least suggests that Identity has a physical component: It can be seen as a frequency. 9:30 It is entirely possible that the ability to use Investiture is made from Investiture. In fact the spiritweb may be made from Investiture. That seems to be the difference between kinetic Investiture and "static" Investiture. 16:00 I still maintain that aluminium does not block Investiture. It filters by Identity. Just as you can use Investiture through your own Plate. I want to see an experiment with emotional allomancy through an aluminium metalmind. 27:00 That makes no sense. The Set did not know about the small escape boats. So how would they take out the ettmetal? It would indicate that the small ships just don't carry enough fuel. 32:00 You want a delay so that you can put the cube into the slot without premature activation. A simple clockwork would do. 36:30 Medallions. There is no reason you'd have to be a natural allomancer to charge a cube. 42:00 No we cannot assume that it is unkeyed. It may carry the Identity of the creator of the medaillion. In fact why then would multiability medaillions be hard? 1:07:00 So the medaillion is using some kind of "semi-hemalurgy"? 1:15:00 Isn't that just an unkeyed nicrosil mind? 1:19:00 Can't they just make the medaillions by compounding nicrosil? 1:41:00 We saw Connetion in a physical form in Secret History.
I was literally just thinking about compounding nicrosil as well. Whether it's a Nicrosil twinborn, or a Nicrosil feruchmeist and Nicrosil allomancer working together, it's very easy for the person filling a metalmind to still have leftover Investiture, rather than fill a metalmind and lose their Investiture.
The way I see unkeyed vs unsealed is alot like ben's take at 1:03:00 ish. Unkeyed means any allomancer/ feruchemist with the ability can tap it (connection?), and Unsealed means ANYONE can tap it (identity?) even those who cant normally use the metallic arts. Edit- I Imagine it works alot like encryption. Normal metal minds are encrypted and you dont have the key to decrypt, Unkeyed are encrypted but you dont need a private key and only a public key, Unsealed are completely unencrypted
Storing Connection would be like storing Bondsmithing abilities to Connect to new places, I'm thinking. From the Coppermind's duralumin article: "Filling a duraluminmind can be used to reduce other people's awareness of and friendship with the Connector, as these Spiritual Connections become stored away. Tapping it would strengthen Connections or allow the Connector to form relationships faster." Bondsmithing. Connecting to a new world faster.
Aimia's Soulcasting Secrets, Hot Take: The Soulcasters are becoming the material they are Soulcasting. We've seen people transforming into crystal or smoke or stone and perhaps other materials, and they always correspond to the single material that the Soulcaster produces. Kaza in particular seemed to be bonding with her spren fabrial, since the Soulcasters are the spren, but this spren is stuck in Soulcasting mode of producing only one material. I think the Soulcaster needs to free the spren somehow and complete the bond, not necessarily in that order, so that both spren and human can be healed.
Re: "blank Connection." I'm on the side that a Feruchemist storing Connection can, by default, store "blank" Connection, the same way they could store "blank" Fortune. Like, I don't think you'd have to specifically store Fortune about, say, whether you correctly bring an umbrella with you on a day it ends up raining, which would only allow you to later tap that Fortune to guide your umbrella luck. I think you can just store general luck/foresight and then tap general luck/foresight. I think there can just be undirected globs of Connection, Fortune, and Investiture. (But I guess not Identity? "Blank identity" would be like endowing the ability to have a really strong identity?)
On ettmetal and the primer cubes: I don't think the primer cubes is what is powering the skimmer. I thought the 'stone, burning like a limelight' was the actual fuel source and the primer cube more like the pilot light or sparkplug. As for the primer cube itself, I do agree 100% with the fabrial connection. I suspect (and could be wrong) that it "tunes" itself to the allomantic power. Sympathetic resonance tuned to the same frequencies that one senses with bronze. With that view, I'm guessing that there would be no direct connection between feruchemy and the cube.
Hemalurgic euthanasia would be much like organ harvesting euthanasia, I would think. But perhaps not beyond Kelsier's ethics. I've been quite fascinated with the fact that Kelsier built the Ghostbloods around tenets that would protect Hitler as long as he was a Ghostblood, including all his human experimentation and atrocities. These exisors and fireparents scare me for that very reason. But perhaps Kelsier never saw the loopholes in his own tenets. Or perhaps his loopholes were never used except by Mraize.
going off the discussion about connection, assuming you were storing your connection to your homeland, how would your actions change? Would attributes strengthened/weakened by you growing up/living in your homeland be weakened? What does it mean to be without a culture? Is there a Cosmere-wide definition, or does it remove aspects that are seen as marks of your culture?
I was so sure that the second who's that Cosmere character was Vin. 1. She gets close to death multiples times 2. She is half-noble half-skaa 3. She destroyed herself fighting Ruin 4. Well, yes 5. She is a Mistborn I was so disappointed
Clubs works too. 1. Wounded leg in the army 2. Skaa craftsmen are a category of their own 3. Killed by koloss 4. Part of multiple thieving crews 5. He's a coppercloud
They take abilities from people who are already on their deathbed, maybe? That could explain the amount of manufacture of the medallions. Idk, it's just a thought.
How do you make an unkeyed metalmind? Do you need to store your identity while storing w/e you are storing in the metalmind? Let me use an example to ask a question. If you stored your identity, then you stored your sense of sight in a tin mind. If you gave that to someone who could also use a tin mind I'd assume they would have no problems drawing from it. That's what the unkeyed does. But what if that person then stored some of their eyesight in the tin mind without first starting to store their identity somewhere else, then they gave it back to you? Would you be able to tap all of the stored eyesight? Or just the portion that you stored? Basically is the tinmind itself forever unkeyed or is the sense of eyesight that is stored the thing that is keyed/unkeyed?
But what if you spiked powers out of people who gave permission for it in a similar way to how organ donation works here. Basically, they're braindead and you keep them alive a little bit longer to spike out the specific ability. The one who's basically already dead wouldn't feel a thing and there's the option to create an extra or a new spike.
hmm. I thought of this right before you started talking about organ donation. And Ian, you basically need to be braindead for organ donation. Not only that, but it's still the case the person needs to die in the IC because of the oxygen organs need.
A thing that always bothered me when they explained the Translating Medallions is when they mention that "It makes your soul think you were raised in this other place so your language changes" but why would ONLY your language change? If your SOUL thinks you were raised in this other place Wouldn`t your values, morals, ethics also change according to where you are?
I guess it could do some of those things. But since it requires Intent, and your Intent is to communicate with the other person, it changes your language. Good point though, maybe we'll see some application of other cultural aspects being changed
Shai's Forgery does seem to kind of do that, so it's possible in principle. It's also hard--Shai has to actually learn a lot of that stuff to make the Essence Mark in the first place.
Your values, morals, ethics do not change according to where you are. They can be defined by where you were born, and what people were available to teach you. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have those same values, or that you're necessarily going to be taught the conventional way. You can be an American whose parents are Japanese and taught you Japanese precepts and cultures. And as we saw in BoM, this doesn't erase what you already know. And the fact that you have an accent is precisely because it's not simply replacing who you are. This would look more like what Soulstamp does, and would likely require Identity.
@@raphaelnascimentosilvestre7434 Yeah but for example if you went to the US with a translating Medalion and entered a Native American reserve. Would you speak Native American or would you still speak english because of the larger English speaking peoplee around would override that small area? Of course different people have different values but still as a larger society there are some fundamental things that most people share. For example in the middle east most most men don´t think its wrong to marry 13 yo´s. But in the rest of the world we do kno thats a monstrous thing to do. I still think that what @Abel said its more accurate and it has to do with the intent. So that raises the question that if one were to create a Morals changing medallion would it work and how much. Of course your knowledge wouldn´t change so pressumably you might KNOW that what you are thinking now IS wrong (or different than what you used to believe) but you might be able to not act on those morals through force of will
Notice that Ishar had no problem Connecting the Windrunners to the ground, and it sucked away their Stormlight instead of teaching them the local language. Of course, Ishar is certainly better at this than anyone in Southern Scadrial, probably better at it than the Sovereign.
I think that's because Ishar connected them to the ground , in the physical sense, instead of the land, as in the culture, language, and people. So, instead of them being connected to the land metaphorically or in a sociocultural sense, it was literal. Like the Stormlight, as explained in the book, thought the ground is part of them.
Concerning the problem of whether you store Blank Connection (if it exists at all) or specific Connection, here's a half-baked idea that occurred to me: What if you store a Specific Connection into the metalmind, but that Specific Connection is made up of several components, and they get broken down and reassembled into a new, different Specific Connection, which effectively makes it look from the outside as if you're tapping a Blank Connection. But this Blank Connection isn't truly blank, it's just... More variable.
Also, Eric mentions several times ho excisors as plural meaning there are multiple, what about scissors? it's one thing but with several components? Non native speaker so not sure
I kinda disagree with how you guys look at the spirt realm. Its not a little slice of what encompasses investiture. Investiture is the energy that fills the spirit realm. You can see the ways it interacts with the physical by how the investiture manifests, ie stormlight.
The red immortals in bands of mourning are invested by a shard...like radiants are invested by honor and cultivation ...just which shard?..Autonomy i guess,with trell being his avater...any ideas guys?
Ok, Autonomy is the major suspect in basically every theory I have ever read. We can all agree on that. The problem is: it's influence in the CR appears as a red mist. Red means corrupted investiture. So it can't be ONLY Autonomy. The red could represent a combo between Autonomy and a different Shard or Autonomy and a Dawnshard. But Autonomy would even consider the idea of mixing its power with someonelse? Bleeder behaviour looks like a combo of Autonomy and Ruin. But that could be an effect of using Autonomy's metal in Hemalurgy.
I assumed the red meant that it was a different shard corrupting Harmony's investiture (against Harmony's will but that's irrelevant to what I'm saying), or Odium is trying to destabilize Scadrial (which, considering developments in RoW, is totally something he would do)
Why is the new metal referred to as harmonium? The other God metals are named after the vessel, not the shard (ex: Ati is atium not ruinium). Would it not be sazium?
@@17thShard Thanks for linking that, Eric! Good to know I'm not alone with that line of thinking. Also that seems like a good way for Brandon to say "I like Harmonium better" haha.
I think the reason for why you can´t have 4 people making a Medallion with 4 powers and why it is so hard to make a Medallion with 3 is a matter of Intent (or Identity) Think about it as a Blood transfusion. You are putting esentially part of yourself into the Medallion. So now it has a sort of "blood type" or "Spirit type" that might be related to Intent in some way. As in what are you thinking when creating a Medallion. Or what you generally see them as. Maybe one person might see them as weapons, and another as a tool and so on. Then the chances that you share a similar/compatible "Spirit type" with the person you are teaming up with to create a Medallion become slimer the more people you add to the mix. Like a blood transfusion would fail if you just randomly selected a stranger to make it without knowing their blood type. Thats why Kelsier could make the Bands because you can´t have a problem with compatibility if you are just one person
Trying something new on this one, to put quotes on screen while we read them when we aren't on WoB mode. It seemed quite useful on this one. Hopefully you liked it? -Eric
I definitely enjoy having the quotes on screen. Thanks!
It was dope
Yes in deed! Great job!
Very useful, could they please be on screen for longer, so we can read them
Sure, it's a careful balance because we also don't want it on screen too long. Can do a bit longer though! -Eric
A thought on excisers: Brandon loves finding the perfect words in his stories. Excise relates to cutting not stabbing. I think the excisers are a new form of hemalourgy that only cut out a part of something.
I've needed an extremely pedantic mechanics episode, thank Harmony!
This episode should be your jam then! -Eric
oh boy, what have I done. just found out about you guys and now that the video is over I want to watch all your other Potcasts as well. bye bye other hobbies.
Welcome! I'm sorry but also not sorry :) Glad you're here! -Eric
oh to be back to the days when gold's purpose was the only confusing thing about allomancy
I love this stuff because you folks are clearly so…. INVESTED in it.
I’m honestly not sure how the magitech is going to work but I’ll be shocked if “excisors” aren’t a non lethal option for hemalurgy
Regarding the Nicrosil Problem discussed around the 1 hour mark: I imagine it's similar to how anyone can burn Lerasium, despite the fact that Lerasium gives you the ability to burn metals.
Except Lerasium is a God Metal - there's plenty of Handwavium that's a part of those alloys.
Possibly crazy theory- Unkeyed and unsealed metalminds were designed to replicate lerasium's ability to bypass connection and identity. Unkeyed bypass identity by allowing any other allomancer/ feruchemist to use them, and Unsealed bypass identity and connection by allowing anyone to use them regardless of previous abilities/ lack thereof
About Identity, I recently realized something: a larkin can basically ignore Identity while feeding. Think about it: a Radiant can't take another Surgebinder's light, while they hold investiture that investiture is bonded to them, same when they invest the light in an outside object. For example, Shallan can create illusion with stormlight, they are HER illusion, and she can take back the light. No other radiant can steal that investiture.
Same for the Breaths, you can't steal them away, and part of the previous owner Identity remains in the breath.
But Larkins can take all the investiture they want without problems. It means they can ignore or overwrite Identity, and/or Connection.
I wonder how their power would work with metalmind.
Larkins are scary.
That is something I had internalized as a rule, but never really thought about and yeah, you are dead on. only exception would be I think they can only utilize Xlight, and not other types of investiture
In general, investivores don't seem to have issues with identity. Returned can apparently live off is stormlight instead of just breaths, and Nightblood seem to be able to eat pretty much anything. Something about metabolizing the investiture seems to strip it of identity, or more startlingly, actually converts the identity to that of the investivore.
@@xHTxRaptorF22 Brandon once said they could steal Zaheel's Divine Breath, so they can steal breaths too. Maybe they can eat all kinds of gaseous investiture (=lights).
@@ilregiallo4151 Hmm, I actually forgot about that part. My first thought is maybe Zahel and by association Azure are different as they have changed and adapted to using stormlight already, I would be curious if you could use a larkin for people who dont have any connection to roshar as well. I think this is a situation where Identity and Connection get used interchangably, but mean different things. I think Larkins are hitting the connection part of investiture but not the identity.
Looking at how flexible Bondsmith powers are, I wouldn't be surprised if Connection Feruchemy is quite flexible too.
Other metallic art powers can be quite complex. Steel allomancy seems simple, but when you burn steel, you have the basic mode where you can detect metal around you, but you're not pushing on anything, and then using Intent, you can select specific things to push, or just generally push on all metal in a certain direction, or all metal around you. So even a seemingly simple power like steel has Intent shenanigans. I could see Connection Feruchemy being just as nuanced, if not moreso.
Excellent episode! As an engineering student, this subject speaks deeply to me. Cheers!
In the quote from Bands at 1:25:58 Allik specifically says the Southerners had no Metalborn when Kelsier found them. I think one of the ways Harmony may have been involved in saving them is in creating Metalborn among them, either through ettmetal, lerasium or some new mechanic.
Oh yeah this is gonna be a good one!
Fancy seeing you here, raven
With the communication medallion it seems like it works as a relative link, not an absolute link. I think he described it as blank connection because the medallion is going "look around yourself and find the primary language spoken in the area" as opposed to "find Elendel, find the primary language spoken there, use that" or even "find Wax, connect to him and use his native language."
It's "blank" as in fill in the blank.
This way you can go to different places and use the same medallion.
Dalinar seems to directly connect to someone else and use their native language. With Dalinar it's fine and probably better because he can do it at will on the drop of a hat, even tailored for the individual. If the medallion did that it would work fine for that one language, but couldn't be used anywhere else. It might also have times where even if it's the same language if you're in a different region with a very different accent it won't adapt to the local dialect.
Even with the relative link type you have the problem of multiple languages in an area. For ex in the southern US there's tons of Spanish speakers, but it's going to give you English because that's the primary language of the area. You have a nifty universal translator but you still might not be able to use it to talk to the person you want to. Dalinar doesn't have to worry about that.
Frankly with Dalinar I suspect there's a way he could speak to a room full of people who all speak different languages, all of them hearing their native language. This is obviously much more complicated than the standard connection translation we've seen him do, but he *is* a bondsmith, connection is kind of their thing
I think that stored connection is definitely not inherently blank. Also, the non-ferrings tapping nicrosil with unsealed metalminds problem has been bugging me for years so thanks for giving me theory ideas to ponder about it.
The excisors as hemalurgy acupuncture is one of my favorite cosmere theories now
I'm a very character-focused reader, so I didn't follow most of this, but I like listening to you guys talk, so the Cast was a win for me, as always. Thanks guys!
I like the idea of mechanical hemalurgy and seeing how the different magic systems are advanced to the future. I think of like advances in technology in our world and how past generations would look at what we have now as magic but to us we know how it works and is science. And Brandon has said to someone like Khriss the magics of the Cosmere are all science. I am getting more excited for the next Mistborn book!
Regarding the coin Ben mentions at 53:17, Eric if you haven't already you should look up the Canadian two-dollar coin. It's also two different metals, one in a ring around the other
Being “brain dead” is basically how organ donation happens at all. You need someone who is being kept physically breathing/heart beating to keep the organs to be donated healthy but who is, in fact, dead. This determination is usually made based on clinical observation and a brain death imaging study (uses nuclear medicine here in the US, other parts of the world get basically the same information with ultrasound).
Has anyone else noticed how similar the intricate nature of Southern medallions it's very similar to Soul Stamps?
Still wonder about the additional power source in the Bands. "His resources were diminishing. Not merely the metals inside of him, but the reserves stored inside the Bands. Stores that changed his level of Investiture." So I assume that this is just a seperate nicrosil section, filled with raw investiture - presumably the Mists. And by using that in conjunction with what Wax got from burning the metals he could push on traceminerals and see souls with Allomantic steel and so on. But if that ran out, would he still be able to use Allomancy at normal strength or is that store critical to the Bands functioning?
Era 2 aren’t really my favourite Cosmere books, so I’m glad to have podcasts like this which go in depth into the mechanics and help me understand some things better when they didn’t really stick on my first reading. Thanks, 17th Shard!
1:44:00 - All senses are detecting things external to your brain.
I think this is the earliest I've ever been
8:00 Rhythm of War at least suggests that Identity has a physical component: It can be seen as a frequency.
9:30 It is entirely possible that the ability to use Investiture is made from Investiture. In fact the spiritweb may be made from Investiture. That seems to be the difference between kinetic Investiture and "static" Investiture.
16:00 I still maintain that aluminium does not block Investiture. It filters by Identity. Just as you can use Investiture through your own Plate. I want to see an experiment with emotional allomancy through an aluminium metalmind.
27:00 That makes no sense. The Set did not know about the small escape boats. So how would they take out the ettmetal? It would indicate that the small ships just don't carry enough fuel.
32:00 You want a delay so that you can put the cube into the slot without premature activation. A simple clockwork would do.
36:30 Medallions. There is no reason you'd have to be a natural allomancer to charge a cube.
42:00 No we cannot assume that it is unkeyed. It may carry the Identity of the creator of the medaillion. In fact why then would multiability medaillions be hard?
1:07:00 So the medaillion is using some kind of "semi-hemalurgy"?
1:15:00 Isn't that just an unkeyed nicrosil mind?
1:19:00 Can't they just make the medaillions by compounding nicrosil?
1:41:00 We saw Connetion in a physical form in Secret History.
it's strange that there is a distinction between "investiture" and "powers" in hemalurgy but not in feruchemy
I was literally just thinking about compounding nicrosil as well. Whether it's a Nicrosil twinborn, or a Nicrosil feruchmeist and Nicrosil allomancer working together, it's very easy for the person filling a metalmind to still have leftover Investiture, rather than fill a metalmind and lose their Investiture.
So about the storing blank connection: If you would need to store specific connection, should you also need to store specific steelpushing?
The way I see unkeyed vs unsealed is alot like ben's take at 1:03:00 ish. Unkeyed means any allomancer/ feruchemist with the ability can tap it (connection?), and Unsealed means ANYONE can tap it (identity?) even those who cant normally use the metallic arts.
Edit- I Imagine it works alot like encryption. Normal metal minds are encrypted and you dont have the key to decrypt, Unkeyed are encrypted but you dont need a private key and only a public key, Unsealed are completely unencrypted
Aww yiss! I missed the deep Cosmere theory podcasts. Gonna be a good one.
Storing Connection would be like storing Bondsmithing abilities to Connect to new places, I'm thinking. From the Coppermind's duralumin article: "Filling a duraluminmind can be used to reduce other people's awareness of and friendship with the Connector, as these Spiritual Connections become stored away. Tapping it would strengthen Connections or allow the Connector to form relationships faster." Bondsmithing. Connecting to a new world faster.
1:51:02 RIP - I’m from the future and RIP
Aimia's Soulcasting Secrets, Hot Take: The Soulcasters are becoming the material they are Soulcasting. We've seen people transforming into crystal or smoke or stone and perhaps other materials, and they always correspond to the single material that the Soulcaster produces. Kaza in particular seemed to be bonding with her spren fabrial, since the Soulcasters are the spren, but this spren is stuck in Soulcasting mode of producing only one material. I think the Soulcaster needs to free the spren somehow and complete the bond, not necessarily in that order, so that both spren and human can be healed.
Re: "blank Connection." I'm on the side that a Feruchemist storing Connection can, by default, store "blank" Connection, the same way they could store "blank" Fortune.
Like, I don't think you'd have to specifically store Fortune about, say, whether you correctly bring an umbrella with you on a day it ends up raining, which would only allow you to later tap that Fortune to guide your umbrella luck. I think you can just store general luck/foresight and then tap general luck/foresight.
I think there can just be undirected globs of Connection, Fortune, and Investiture. (But I guess not Identity? "Blank identity" would be like endowing the ability to have a really strong identity?)
I follow instructions well: I think they store regional connection but it's blank because it's not connecting to any region while stored
Here's a question to chew on: did Iyatil need a medallion for warmth while on Roshar?
We're very glad to be mentioned in the title :P
Just for you! :) -Eric
On ettmetal and the primer cubes: I don't think the primer cubes is what is powering the skimmer. I thought the 'stone, burning like a limelight' was the actual fuel source and the primer cube more like the pilot light or sparkplug.
As for the primer cube itself, I do agree 100% with the fabrial connection. I suspect (and could be wrong) that it "tunes" itself to the allomantic power. Sympathetic resonance tuned to the same frequencies that one senses with bronze. With that view, I'm guessing that there would be no direct connection between feruchemy and the cube.
So, I would love to hear some updated theories on excisors after The Lost Metal since they talk about Hemalurgy without killing the target.
We had a Hemalurgy post Lost Metal podcast but I think we are just as confused about Excisors as always. -Eric
Hemalurgic euthanasia would be much like organ harvesting euthanasia, I would think. But perhaps not beyond Kelsier's ethics.
I've been quite fascinated with the fact that Kelsier built the Ghostbloods around tenets that would protect Hitler as long as he was a Ghostblood, including all his human experimentation and atrocities. These exisors and fireparents scare me for that very reason. But perhaps Kelsier never saw the loopholes in his own tenets. Or perhaps his loopholes were never used except by Mraize.
going off the discussion about connection, assuming you were storing your connection to your homeland, how would your actions change? Would attributes strengthened/weakened by you growing up/living in your homeland be weakened? What does it mean to be without a culture? Is there a Cosmere-wide definition, or does it remove aspects that are seen as marks of your culture?
I was so sure that the second who's that Cosmere character was Vin.
1. She gets close to death multiples times
2. She is half-noble half-skaa
3. She destroyed herself fighting Ruin
4. Well, yes
5. She is a Mistborn
I was so disappointed
Clubs works too.
1. Wounded leg in the army
2. Skaa craftsmen are a category of their own
3. Killed by koloss
4. Part of multiple thieving crews
5. He's a coppercloud
Miles fits too since he's Terris
If your 5 clues could fit like 5 different people, you should lose automatically.
Storing sense of balance would be cool (Vestibular sense)
IT'S HERE
Spren, Rosharans and Cognitive shadows
They take abilities from people who are already on their deathbed, maybe? That could explain the amount of manufacture of the medallions. Idk, it's just a thought.
Am I the only one bugged by them saying "organ doning"? 😂 😂
Just fabriels with extra steps
Isn't every form of magitech in the Cosmere called fabrials?
@@HSuper_Lee it is if you're from Roshar
Chaos needs a beard for this cast
Huh. I gotta be honest I don't know if I'd look any good with a beard! -Eric
@@17thShard Sharpie it up!
How do you make an unkeyed metalmind? Do you need to store your identity while storing w/e you are storing in the metalmind? Let me use an example to ask a question. If you stored your identity, then you stored your sense of sight in a tin mind. If you gave that to someone who could also use a tin mind I'd assume they would have no problems drawing from it. That's what the unkeyed does. But what if that person then stored some of their eyesight in the tin mind without first starting to store their identity somewhere else, then they gave it back to you? Would you be able to tap all of the stored eyesight? Or just the portion that you stored? Basically is the tinmind itself forever unkeyed or is the sense of eyesight that is stored the thing that is keyed/unkeyed?
But what if you spiked powers out of people who gave permission for it in a similar way to how organ donation works here. Basically, they're braindead and you keep them alive a little bit longer to spike out the specific ability. The one who's basically already dead wouldn't feel a thing and there's the option to create an extra or a new spike.
hmm. I thought of this right before you started talking about organ donation. And Ian, you basically need to be braindead for organ donation. Not only that, but it's still the case the person needs to die in the IC because of the oxygen organs need.
A thing that always bothered me when they explained the Translating Medallions is when they mention that "It makes your soul think you were raised in this other place so your language changes" but why would ONLY your language change?
If your SOUL thinks you were raised in this other place Wouldn`t your values, morals, ethics also change according to where you are?
I guess it could do some of those things. But since it requires Intent, and your Intent is to communicate with the other person, it changes your language. Good point though, maybe we'll see some application of other cultural aspects being changed
Shai's Forgery does seem to kind of do that, so it's possible in principle. It's also hard--Shai has to actually learn a lot of that stuff to make the Essence Mark in the first place.
Your values, morals, ethics do not change according to where you are. They can be defined by where you were born, and what people were available to teach you. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have those same values, or that you're necessarily going to be taught the conventional way. You can be an American whose parents are Japanese and taught you Japanese precepts and cultures. And as we saw in BoM, this doesn't erase what you already know. And the fact that you have an accent is precisely because it's not simply replacing who you are. This would look more like what Soulstamp does, and would likely require Identity.
@@raphaelnascimentosilvestre7434 Yeah but for example if you went to the US with a translating Medalion and entered a Native American reserve. Would you speak Native American or would you still speak english because of the larger English speaking peoplee around would override that small area?
Of course different people have different values but still as a larger society there are some fundamental things that most people share. For example in the middle east most most men don´t think its wrong to marry 13 yo´s. But in the rest of the world we do kno thats a monstrous thing to do.
I still think that what @Abel said its more accurate and it has to do with the intent.
So that raises the question that if one were to create a Morals changing medallion would it work and how much.
Of course your knowledge wouldn´t change so pressumably you might KNOW that what you are thinking now IS wrong (or different than what you used to believe) but you might be able to not act on those morals through force of will
Primer cubes are spark plugs
Notice that Ishar had no problem Connecting the Windrunners to the ground, and it sucked away their Stormlight instead of teaching them the local language. Of course, Ishar is certainly better at this than anyone in Southern Scadrial, probably better at it than the Sovereign.
I think that's because Ishar connected them to the ground , in the physical sense, instead of the land, as in the culture, language, and people. So, instead of them being connected to the land metaphorically or in a sociocultural sense, it was literal. Like the Stormlight, as explained in the book, thought the ground is part of them.
I think the excuses is the name for an harmonium misting/feering?!?
Concerning the problem of whether you store Blank Connection (if it exists at all) or specific Connection, here's a half-baked idea that occurred to me: What if you store a Specific Connection into the metalmind, but that Specific Connection is made up of several components, and they get broken down and reassembled into a new, different Specific Connection, which effectively makes it look from the outside as if you're tapping a Blank Connection. But this Blank Connection isn't truly blank, it's just... More variable.
Not sure if this idea is *more* or *less* nonsensical tho haha, I'm definitely going to be giving it some more thought tho
Ok, something REALLY annoys me...
Atium
Raysium
Lerasium
Tanavastium
....Harmonium? Not Sazium? Sazedium?
Metallions
Also, Eric mentions several times ho excisors as plural meaning there are multiple, what about scissors? it's one thing but with several components? Non native speaker so not sure
Doesn't vin experience better balance while burning pewter vice tin
Metallions.
I kinda disagree with how you guys look at the spirt realm. Its not a little slice of what encompasses investiture. Investiture is the energy that fills the spirit realm. You can see the ways it interacts with the physical by how the investiture manifests, ie stormlight.
The red immortals in bands of mourning are invested by a shard...like radiants are invested by honor and cultivation
...just which shard?..Autonomy i guess,with trell being his avater...any ideas guys?
Ok, Autonomy is the major suspect in basically every theory I have ever read. We can all agree on that. The problem is: it's influence in the CR appears as a red mist. Red means corrupted investiture. So it can't be ONLY Autonomy.
The red could represent a combo between Autonomy and a different Shard or Autonomy and a Dawnshard.
But Autonomy would even consider the idea of mixing its power with someonelse?
Bleeder behaviour looks like a combo of Autonomy and Ruin. But that could be an effect of using Autonomy's metal in Hemalurgy.
I assumed the red meant that it was a different shard corrupting Harmony's investiture (against Harmony's will but that's irrelevant to what I'm saying), or Odium is trying to destabilize Scadrial (which, considering developments in RoW, is totally something he would do)
Why is the new metal referred to as harmonium? The other God metals are named after the vessel, not the shard (ex: Ati is atium not ruinium). Would it not be sazium?
Sazed apparently didn't like the sound of that: wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3539
This annoys Ian to no end, so you're in good company. -Eric
@@17thShard Thanks for linking that, Eric! Good to know I'm not alone with that line of thinking. Also that seems like a good way for Brandon to say "I like Harmonium better" haha.
Hah, pretty much.
nice
I think the reason for why you can´t have 4 people making a Medallion with 4 powers and why it is so hard to make a Medallion with 3 is a matter of Intent (or Identity)
Think about it as a Blood transfusion. You are putting esentially part of yourself into the Medallion. So now it has a sort of "blood type" or "Spirit type" that might be related to Intent in some way. As in what are you thinking when creating a Medallion. Or what you generally see them as. Maybe one person might see them as weapons, and another as a tool and so on.
Then the chances that you share a similar/compatible "Spirit type" with the person you are teaming up with to create a Medallion become slimer the more people you add to the mix. Like a blood transfusion would fail if you just randomly selected a stranger to make it without knowing their blood type.
Thats why Kelsier could make the Bands because you can´t have a problem with compatibility if you are just one person
But Kelsier didn't make the Bands. Rashek did. Same logic applies, of course.
@@carl11547 my mistake haven´t read Bands in a while
Rashek dont make this.
If Evgeny and Jebus were clones, which one would be The Original
Well, I am older, so.
Tremendo Adoro el imperio final la version de Nova es tremenda.
@33:30 😏
First, for once