Mistborn Era 3 Speculation | Shardcast
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- With Lost Metal closing out Mistborn Era 2, and us now knowing Era 3 is called Ghostbloods, let's talk about what we know about Mistborn: Ghostbloods. Brandon's talked about it a lot over the years. We talk about that and our hopes for the series, along with many, many cold wars. And Discord, of course.
This episode we have Eric (Chaos), Evgeni (Argent), Alyx (Feather), and Matt (Comatose).
Our Brandon interview that talked about Mistborn Ghostbloods: • Mistborn Era 3 Title, ...
C2E2 Words of Brandon talking about Cyberpunk era: • Shallan's First Wind a...
0:00:00 Introductions
0:01:43 What is Diceborn?
0:03:38 Intro to the Mistborn Eras
0:12:29 Tech Level & Political Situation
0:42:12 Trell, Offworld Influence, Structure Thoughts
1:06:44 Protagonist
1:14:06 More Structure Talk, Discord and Kelsier
1:55:33 Random WoBs
2:11:00 "It is Yours" and More Discord
2:30:01 Cosmere Connection Level & Ghostbloods
2:47:57 Final Thoughts
3:02:32 Who's That Cosmere Character
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#brandonsanderson #cosmere #mistborn - Zábava
My pitch: the siblings are both recruited by the same government agency for hacking/covert ops. The sister defects to the Ghostbloods after the disappearance/suspicious death of her brother, who she doesn’t know was selected for the Mistborn super soldier programme.
"Trell stuff" could still feel fresh if Autonomy has pivoted to fanning the flames of the cold war (in hopes that it goes nuclear and destroys Scadrial for Autonomy, which was the end goal in era 2). That way, the Ghostbloods can still act as a neutral party in the cold war while still having cool secret missions, taking down the resurgent Set and countering their subtle political moves aimed at starting a war.
Forget "Hack the planet!" In Mistborn Era 3 the new crew is gonna "Hack the Shard!"
You ask "how could Bloody Tan possibly return?", but consider... Era 3 comics pages, Era 3 serial killer's inspiration, or both!
Mistborn saga has new concepts inspired by old legends as a running theme
also you know: Kandra.
Great episode yet again.
I've been catching up on the recent WOB episodes over the last week and i noticed a pattern whenever Grace is on the pod. She seems to say "like" A LOT!!! so i did a fun little exercise where i chose 7 episodes with Grace and 7 episodes without grace, downloaded the transcript and did a word count for how many times "like" appeared.
Grace: YES
Total Minutes: 981
Like Count: 6459
Likes per minute: 6.58
Grace: NO
Total Minutes: 876
Like Count: 4797
Likes per Minute: 5.48
Therefore on an average episode Grace contributes an extra 1.1 Likes per minute. The average episode length of the 7 where Grace appeared which i studied was 140 minutes, so Grace contributed an extra 154 likes per episode lol.
For the record, this episode (without Grace) had 1026 "likes" at a rate of 5.34 likes per minute.
Keep up the amazing work 17th Sharders!
When y'all were talking about Harmony splitting it got me thinking. Harmony is 1 Shard now. If it splits, the Intents will be different and likely a mix of what Harmony is now. So, what if, either on purpose OR just from the sheer stress of the situation, the Shard splits and we end up with two separate Gods on Scadrial? One, that claims the Northerners and one that claims the Southerners? THAT is the true, secret 3rd Cold War, the War between the God of the Basin and the God of the Malwish.
42:13 I think one of the things to consider with autonomy/Trell is that Sanderson has stated he wants to write the Prose of White Sand and Elantris 2 & 3 with Mistborn Era 3. It’s been foreshadowed pretty heavily that Elantris’s Shu-Dereth conflict is Autonomy based. So either the conflict on Scadrial will be rooted in Autonomy and this is a 6 book Arc where we deal with Autonomy’s space in the Cosmere or Autonomy is not involved on Scadrial so that we can focus in on Autonomy’s role on Sel
50:18 I am hoping the men of red and gold will get explained in Elantris 2 as I think Autonomy will use them to Install Shu-Dereth. They may even be affiliated with Shu-Dereth armor like Hrathen’s was red. This could also explain Moonlights and Code Names Are Stupid involvement with The Ghostbloods in The Lost Metal if the men of Red and Gold attacked Sel and now the Sel-ish want to stop Autonomy
I wonder how Kelsier would think of Nalthis, the place where investiture is most “democratized”. Because that is how I see his dream for Scadrial going.
He'd hate it lol. A noble class which thrives on absorbing basically souls from the poor is something he'd probably despise to his core.
No one wants to put Harmony in s place where he can say "I can Preserve my people by Ruining you" Because if you do you are likely to get both barrels.
Yep, because while he's passive he's not necessarily inactive. We saw how intent works with shards from secret history. Even if they aren't sure sazed can manage both, attacking him this way feels like a very massive risk. Especially when trying to break him apart via agents seems more practical.
On the splintering of Sazed, I wonder if it will end up mirroring what we eventually will see with the Shattering of Adonalsium. A god (Sazed) being reluctantly, though willingly split for the good of the Cosmere/Scadrial. Potentially add in the use of an external power being used (Dawnshards/Autonomy)
Matt AND Alyx on today? You know this is a good one.
No such thing as too long on a Shardcast.
Well you're in luck because this is our longest episode ever!
WHY MUST YOU DO THIS WHY MUST YOU DISCUSS SUCH AN INTERESTING TOPIC AT 3 AM (thank you!!)
On Brandon’s release schedule: The Way of Kings was released in 2010 and Wind and Truth will be released in 2024. If you don’t expect Stormlight 6 until 2030 (reasonable in my opinion), then you shouldn’t expect Stormlight 10 until around 2044. Argent’s 2045 estimate is perfectly reasonable and Brandon will turn 70 that year. Average life expectancy for someone Brandon’s age is 78, so we should be safe 🤞🏻
My crack pitch is that in the last book of the trilogy it’s revealed that one of the characters in the Ghostbloods was just Shallan all along
The Malazan Book of the Fallen series deals also with aspects of your questions about the believers’ shaping or restricting the gods they worship.
And it's great!
Another great upload! Always happy to listen to three hours of wild theorising. By the way: 100% agree with Alyx's fanfiction idea for Dier to end up as Zane's spike. It's canon to me!
@1:45:00 on the topic of gods and followers, Ian actually recommended the 'Divine Cities' trilogy which was really good! And Dimension 20 was also the next place my mind went 😊
I like how any podcast about Kelsier with Alex comes down to everyone talking her through her Kelsier Derangement Syndrome.
I am totally with Alyx on her point about Scadrial-centeredness. I am very much looking forward to a new Mistborn series, for me, it replaced Stormlight Archive as my #1 favorite. I love the story "through the ages" of Scadrial. Technological and societal evolution is the most interesting part for me. Also can't get the idea out of my head that one of the Dragons will be a ftl chatroom 😂 Thank you for this mega podcast, loved it!
I think with cyberpunk era being basically confirmed it would be cool if some of the autonomy plot line was shifted to era 4 considering how integral the idea of autonomy (or the loss of it) is to cyberpunk. plus it would leave more room to focus on the south in era 3
Oh man just as i'm starting to deep clean, thx❤
I have to agree with Alyx, lost metal did not feel so great and of the secret projects only yumi worked for me (funny enough, I thought I would like yumi the least and sunlit man the most, but it was the other way around). They are still good books, but nowhere near Era 1 or Stormlight.
BUT: Rhythm of War and Yumi worked super well for me, I enjoyed the cosmere connections there.
Tress, sunlit man and lost metal all felt like: "hey people from this planet, here is this outside tech and these outside people. You are way to stupid to understand it, so the plot is gonna ignore you". Also it felt like there was a lack of good plotting and no ending like what we are used to from brandon. Kinda felt like this was sacrificed for the cosmere stuff - and that is a trade I would rather not make.
im hoping that its more of a "first contact" problem. like once its not special that there is cross over in text, that new and interesting stories can grow from that rather than being hindered by it.
I feel like Tress definitely wasn't that way. The story is very focused on tress herself with the technology being an aside from her.
@@user-ez9ng2rw9c yeah I really liked tress. Until the point when they arrived at the rocket. Tress has no joke sandersons worst ending/sanderlanch for me. No excitement, no good revelations, just weird things happening. Her and Charlie are super cute and the outcome is good, but the fight on the island is just weird.
@@Degrad21 I think it has a weaker sanderlanche which is kinda inevitable with how low stakes the story is and it's meant to not be as thoroughly questioned due to the fairy tale vibe it's clearly going for.
I definitely think the weakest sanderlanche is Elantris though. Elantris as a whole really feels like a proto Sanderson book because it basically is, I guess.
@@user-ez9ng2rw9c nah elantris is underrared af.
Hrathens chapters suck in the beginning and there is maybe one plot twist to much in the ending. But it is a good book.
I always listen just to the podcast while driving. Came here solely for Zoey. No regrets 😻
So this turned out to be our longest podcast ever! I may end up skipping the next episode (July 14th's) or the following one (July 28th's). We'll see. -Eric
Y'all rule and thanks for all you do Eric. It's much appreciated...this has been discussed behind your back
Your longest, so far…
Your longest until the Ba-Ado-Mishram episode next January after Wind and Truth
Love the long episode, keep em coming
@@williamkeaton5091 ba ado should be 10hrs long. 5 two hour podcasts.
As Matt was talking about a chase through a nightclub near the end, all I could think about was the bathhouse scene from John Wick, but with allomancy
I want a survivorist highschool play where the kids are poorly acting out era 1
I think autonomy will be more likely to show up in another series (like Elantris). Maybe she would come back in Era 3 but I think not with the cold war focus.
Fantastic background, Eric!
I think kelsier is very open to picking up a shard. If always assumes he can handle power.
I think he bites of more than he can chew in book two, forces discord to happen, Sazed goes crazy and asks Kelsier to kill him, kelsier takes up the two shards but the combined intents equal “survival” where in order to protect his people he has to ruin others. I think he figures out a way to buffer himself from the power of the shard though so that he can still act freely. He makes himself an avatar of the shard but democratizes the majority of the power.
The biggest mystery is, obviously, what Era specific piece of tiny iconic, easily merchandisable junk are the Allomancers going to drop all over the streets to.push off of?
Era 1 had coins and Era 2 had shell casings.... So, what exactly are they gonna be throwing all over the floor in Era 3? RAM? Microfich? Some sort of cheap, made to be disposed of consumer level product that is specifically designed for this? I dunno. But I can't wait to find out!
1:51:14 I think that might be possible but in a slightly different manner. The planet has been constructed with the power of the two shards, you could turn around and make the planet into a vessel of them, kind of similar to how Patji (an island) is an avatar of Autonomy. So Scadrial would turn into a diety like an extremely juiced version of Patji or Stormfather.
Can you guys do a Stormlight Archive catch up in the Fall? As fun as 3 months of Cosmere rereads sounds…….
Stormlight SpanReads is starting as soon as Warbreaker ends! We are doing this! Would that satisfy your itch? What else would you like? -Eric
@@17thShardI think they were hoping for something like a simple summary video. I know that's not the sort of thing y'all normally do BUT if you either made one big one trying to jog peoples memories and explain everything you need to know to be able to read Wind and Truth OR if you made one summary video per Stormlight book with the same goal in mind, well, I think y'all might end up with some real bangers!
@@17thShardI think they were hoping for something like a simple summary video. I know that's not the sort of thing y'all normally do BUT if you either made one big one trying to jog peoples memories and explain everything you need to know to be able to read Wind and Truth OR if you made one summary video per Stormlight book with the same goal in mind, well, I think y'all might end up with some real fan favorites!
This was originally the plan, but unfortunately the person who was going to do them was unable to reread and record them. Apologies! It would have been a good idea if we could have managed it. It would certainly have gotten a lot of views. -Eric
I can see coppermind hard drives to store information and bytes in. I think it would also be cool to see a Brassmind to AC a computer as well. I suppose that Ironminds could also make it lighter. But I don’t know how to make all of that work with inanimate objects and such, but I think it would be a cool way of using our technology and mixing it with Feruchemy
Feather's analysis of the sociopolitical narrative elements of Scadrial was awesome. Well done. More of this!
Evgeny comments at one point (1:49:55) that something isn't feasible. OK, but I don't notice you folks considering the possibility that Kelsier could be completely wrong about what's possible, try something doomed to fail, and screw things up much worse. He's a smart being, but he's not infallible. Adonalsium wasn't infallible, apparently.
One way for psychopathic mass-murderer Kelsier to have a redemption arc would be to have him screw up terribly, and then spend the Space Age desperately trying to fix the disaster he caused.
this is gonna be so funny to rewatch after era 3 is out
I like Alyx's idea that Discord isnt a stabke state and finisng a new ortientation of the shards intent going forward being the overacing 3 book storyline, with the cold war and whatever hapens in book 2 being doscord adjacent/influenced. Depending on the level of cosmere crossover and how WaT ends, i could potentially see a worldhopping shallan bring a certain CHANGE dawnshard for a ket visit
Feel the passage of time. Many years have passed.
I like Alyx’s idea of Harmony rearranging itself into a new equilibrium. I think if it does so the new intent would be something like Growth, it gives you the change that Ruin requires while avoid the destruction that Preservation is trying to avoid.
I wonder what would happen if an avatar of autonomy took up the shards of ruin and preservation.
That feels a little too much like Cultivation
Love the idea of a tiered cold war.
Perhaps the Trell idea could be revisioned as a lingering thought turned into a third book clash after the three cold wars end with a united Scadrial. North v South, Harmony v Scadrial, Ghostbloods v outside threat.
The Trell idea could be changed into some invading Avatar of Autonomy (maybe from Sel). Perhaps even double agents within the Ghostbloods.
I agree with the crossover stuff when it comes to the Lost Metal, but liked it in the secret projects.
I think it just has to be established at the start: perhaps even possibly brining in the Rosharan Ghostbloods versus the main branch. Perhaps even add in a third one. The crossover stuff can be there, but the focus, especially for the main characters are solely on Scadrial.
The thing is, Sazed is supposed to be the hero throughout the ages. That’s kinda hard if he only makes it through one age.
It’s a good thing I wasn’t on this episode. I wouldn’t have been able to stop making MLP references the whole time.
🎶 I'm howling at the moon, and sleeping in the middle of a summer afternoon! 🎶
@@FeatherWriters If only Scadrial had a moon 😔
Now all we need are some Cosmere sirens…
17 mistborn books, with book 17 being all about the 17th shard
I think I want kelsier to take up ruin, and kelsier and sazed come to a new pact, where sazed focuses on preservation of scadrial, and kelsier focuses on ruining the enemies of scadrial. Meanwhile, the ghostbloods act as ruins counterparts to the kandra, acting to sow competition in hopes of growing scadrian society and technology
I love Aylx great theory! I’m going to be mad now if era three doesn’t go down that way 😂
The only real question is will kelsier have a mullet
I dont think you guys specifically mentioned it, but what's a cultural thing that totally coincides with the cold war? UFOs. This is the perfect time for scradrial to start coming to terms with aliens existing and already visiting their planet
VERY true. -Eric
Alyx, just so you know, it's likely that Mraize wasn't sanctioned by Kelsier to create the Rosharan Ghostbloods, so they're kind of doing their own thing, if that helps at all haha
Then why does Mraize threaten Shallan with Kelsier's hostility? Bluffing?
@@carl11547 Good question. he honestly thinks he’s doing what Keliser wants (and did when he brought he Ghostbloods to Roshar), despite it all not being sanctioned necessarily. It is also possible that Kelsier accepted them eventually. Although he might just be bluffing as well. Good question! What I said also isn’t confirmed, just speculation from what I’ve seen online
Let's gooooooooooooooo
1:53:50 what they need for this is some sort of Bondsmith/Oathpact thingamajig
Is a mistborn serial killer confirmed to not be happening anymore? I thought there was a WoB about it but idk
That's not confirmed, but he did say that he may move away from the Allomancer SWAT team thing. -Eric
I think we will see harmony becoming something akin to Janus, where the god has two faces
I still feel like autonomy might side with the ghostbloods this time around to make it feel different
@@king_dot I feel like Autonomy and the Ghostbloods can’t align because several of the Ghostbloods agents are from other worlds where Autonomy has interfered.
Btw, does anyone know the actual time gap between era 2 and 3? Considering how fast their tech is moving and the fact that Sazed wishes it to move even faster and Kelsier will no doubt be working hard on pushing it faster...alongside new innovations from era 2... I wouldn't be surprised if they only took around 3-4 decades to get there. I wouldn't be against a few cameos from the era 2 cast, though itd be sad to see them old.
It's unclear, I would have to look at the WoBs. I seem to remember less than like fifty years. I am pretty sure Marasi will still be alive. -Eric
What if the bands were a way to test individuals to see how they act with an "godly" power and in a later moment give them true shardic power? That way the power can be shared when needed with someone with the best intention in Scadrial in mind
You couldn't use time dilation to speed up a computer, at least realistically. You can of course do anything magically. You could have a computer start a process that will take a long time and then use time dilation on yourself to essentially go to the future but applying time dilation to the computer itself would only slow it down, not speed it up.
I would agree with you if they were trying to use chromium to make the computer go faster but if they were using bend alloy I would disagree because bendalloy makes everything inside the bubble go faster while chromium makes everything outside the bubble go faster in comparison.
@@robertpanasuk1156 Like I said, you can do anything magically.
Every time I say I need to listen to a non-Brandon Sanderson book or podcast, you choose a topic that pulls me back in
`1:25:45, really like this theory tbh
Dealing with Discord is a way that the Northern and Southern Scadrians could align. And if Sazed somehow dies or loses the power, Kelsier taking it up could keep the Scadrians united. "Ruin them to Preserve us" is kinda Kelsier's thing right now anyway, so he might be better suited for the power of Harmony than Sazed.
God Emporer Kelsier sounds like a great idea.
As a trans catgirl, I support this theory. Where’s our fantasy representation, Brandon?
Also, wow is Alyx just printing amazing ideas this episode. I choked at “Twitch plays the shard of Preservation.”
I live to serve (hot takes and wild theories)
@@FeatherWriters Don’t forget good songs and wildly relatable opinions on Kelsier!
What is that beautiful background behind Eric?
It's one of our pieces we commissioned for our Secrets in Stained Glass show! You can view them here, in the Art Backgrounds section: www.17thshard.com/news/features/secrets-in-stained-glass-ep-4-assets-and-challenge-mechanics-plus-art-backgrounds-r985/
Actual plays aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I think we told an awesome story in that miniseries. -Eric
Speedbubbles around computers. That's all I'm saying. Cadmium bubbles around food.
Now i want Metal Gear Mistborn but i think brandon has not played those. He has seen all the classic movies that inspire it though!
15:30 Ghostbloods sound like a cross between X-Men and Hydra
17:00 The Basin takes the idea of nobility seriously. The idea of an organization having a status above the law is not as abhorent to them as to us.
18:30 What? Noble houses are corporations. It was never different.
19:00 Kelsier is back to the even older kind of nobility. Magical people are the nobility.
20:00 Who is to say that computer tech should not be dominated by Nalthis? It is very hard to see how we would not have some limited interstellar trade by the next era. The cat is really out of the bag. An interstellar mushroom cloud on your doorstep is a clear reminder.
26:00 The Cosmere is fundamentally different. Gods obviously exist. The idea that morals are determined by a higher power is the default. They are not going to base a fundamental order on liberty.
29:00 Northern Scadrians are free and prosperous. They are _not_ equal. The metallic arts make sure of that. The outcome will be different.
31:30 Which Brandon book is apolitical? Era 1 was literally about a revolution. White Sand about a council vote.
39:30 The North could just have regular nukes. Or antiinvestiture weapons.
1:00:00 Autonomy may now have to deal with other Shards reacting to her defeat. This is not good for her. She is licking her wounds.
1:05:30 Then what is Kelsier doing? Eliminating TLR caused an extinction level catastrophe. Kelsier will not let people do that out of ignorance again.
1:09:00 If you defect, why do you draw attention to yourself by going on a serial killing spree?
1:10:30 Why? Being a mistborn means that you don't need a nicroburst.
1:30:00 Kelsier is right. Taking up a shard amounts to accepting brain damage. You agree to parts of your personality effectively being wped out.
1:55:00 There are two logical solutions. Either reunite them or splinter them all. I suppose that Kelsier will be on the second team.
2:37:30 It is like any organisation that cannot base itself on a state. It needs sources of funding. Most of the Ghostbloods is by necessity organized crime. Kelsier being Kelsier that is not an issue to him.
2:42:30 The churches are the last resort. The Basin has no unified government. If he ever needs common action regardless of the consequences, he retains the option of holy war.
2:55:00 @Argent: The logical answer would be that the end of the Ghostbloods era changes something fundamental and he does not want to limit himself to prequels (in a temporal sense) for that long.
2:56:00 Mummies? Whatever Dan Wells will write? No mention regarding 2025 and 2026?
2:59:00 Ouch. Imagine you are a tineye in a club with strobe lights and drums.
What if Bloody Tan is the mistborn serial killer? I mean, there would have to be some shenanigans as to how he is alive, some major shenanigans, but hey, we would get more answers.
It's always weird for me when Eric complains about aging. I'm 62. It is vanishingly unlikely I'll be able to read the post-Stormlight Cosmere. I'll be either dead or too demented. I doubt I'll even read all of the Back Five. (Part of that is doubting they'll all be out by 2040.)
If I was Sazed, I'd have this thought process: Leras gave extra Preservation to the humans of Scadrial. That's why Ruin was and is stronger when acting as a shard. What if I put some extra Ruin into ... the people of Taldain, or the people of Roshar? Could I make them so destructive their civilizations fell?
I don't like that with a snap of the fingers it feels like we went from 2020 to 2024. -Eric
3 hours? Still not long enough give me 18 :P
I'd be interested to see Harmony/Discord splinter into two Shards, Harmony and Discord. It would bring us back to something similar to era 1 with 2 gods keeping each other in check, but the two wouldn't be as directly opposed as they were as Ruin and Preservation. Personally, I'd like to see Kelsier and Marsh take up the Shards. But not before we see Sazed backhand another god with his duel shard power.
I think everyone should remember that discord is not necessarily a bad thing.
Kelsier has the ghost bloods hunting for ba ado mishram becaus he wants to figure out how to find and bring something back from the spiritual realm so that he can try to take up devotion and dominion
32:58, my fav tyrant Dalinar Kholin
The Scadrial Defense Force Cosmere Class super carriers Ruin and Preservation 1:23:30
Would Trell be a better antagonist for the cyberpunk era books? Imagine Trell “infecting” people through the cybernetic implants.
Maybe through an MMO avatar or vtuber? Jk
I'm actually gonna be 40 by Stormlight 10
I predict 4 hours
a noid if you will
I wonder if Ruin changed the discord prophecy because he wanted a fake hero ages and so it might read He shall defend their ways, yet shall violate them. He will be their savior, yet they shall call him heretic. His name shall be Harmony (Discord), yet they shall hate (love) him for it and the twist will be what he does to make scadrial hate him
2:23:08
What if the ocean is beer?
Get chugging! -Eric
@@17thShard jokes on you chaos, I'm a bendalloy compounder!
Maybe the southerners ally themselves with Autonomy?
I always get so excited when Feather is on. No one else agrees with my feelings on Kelsier
Oh I definitely agree with you and Alyx on Kelsier. We may be a minority, but we’re not alone.
I love kelsier as a character. But he's a fucking fiend, and I would not support him as a person. Especially after how he's handled Roshar.
The review of Kelsier is so warped. What did they mean? He wouldn’t become a shard he literally has becoming preservation temporarily. I agree he wants to “ democratize power” He also wants power for himself, though that’s obvious why do you think he wants to get his own powers back?
Kel would most certainly become a shard given the opportunity. I also disagree that he thinks of himself as a mortal. For one it’s not true true so we have to be pretty delusional. By the definition of the religion he grew up and he is a God. I do think he sees himself as one. Why Would he take the responsibility of God?
His main goal seems to be fulfilling, his promised preservation to be a better God . But to have such one must see yourself as a God
Kelsier makes the bands and discovers he can't use them because he is still a cognitive shadow
Jaddeth being Autonomy could be another tie-in for elantris and era 3
2:53:54 the release schedule of Mistborn Ghostbloods and Elantris 2&3 makes me think this is the Autonomy Arc of the Cosmere
Hey Argent; take your 20 year publication timetable and shove it where the stormlight don't shine. Some of us are old farts who won't live that long. Let Brandon be Brandon and write like the wind.
I get that, I think Argent is just worried about the boom and bust nature of waiting several years for the next big cosmere release. But, maybe that won't really be an issue. -Eric