Shallan's Past | Rhythm of War Shardcast
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- In this episode of Shardcast, we go through the very light, chill topic of Shallan's past. Oh boy, there is so much to talk about, and so much more in Rhythm of War to ruminate on. Let's grind through and see if we can figure out what's going on here.
Today We have Eric (Chaos), Ian (Weiry), David (Windrunner), Grace (thegatorgirl), Joshua (jofwu), and Jessie (Lady Lameness, who I still owe brownies to).
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Me: Why do you want to bond shallan again ?
Cryptics : FOR SCIENCE !!!
God, Shallan is the unreliablest of unreliable narrators. Every time I think about her past, I make like her and just blank my mind.
“Liar liar pants on fire” ~~Ian~~ - Jessie
Don’t forget, every cryptic is called pattern. Shallan’s is the only one where it actually stuck.
Brandon.... Brandon please.... the wiki can't take this torture.... - Jessie
Their names are patterns that can't be interpreted verbally, so it becomes "Pattern" unless otherwise determined. The question is why Testament wasn't just known as Pattern, unless Shallan was already interacting with multiple Cryptics.
(I wrote this as a comment on its own, but it seems to fit here)
It seems to me like pattern and the cryptics purposefully wanted to explore what happened to dead eye spren, and to do so Testament is literally a testament to their determination to learn the truth. Devoted to the patterns behind the recreance. I'd bet when Shallan is more stable, and/or by the end of book 5, Shallan's pattern might have a different name.
Altogether, I think Pattern and the other cryptics ARE responsible... "what WE did" has more underlying meaning, they together wanted to understand deadeyes, and he's not exactly lying when he talks about the past all the time. If she killed pattern, another might even try to take his place. They chose, they are responsible for messing Shallan up. Thoughts?
@@maggiecearley3061 I like that.
@@17thShard We probably need Shallan: Secret History.
So the testament thing was actually shown all the way back in way of kings where she draws two criptics in the portrait of taravangien one with a wild broken pattern and one one not broken pattern.
Can you say where in WoK cause I can't find any mention of Testament?
@@adamklaits6379 its toward the end of chapter 29, "two tall and willowy creatures with cloaks that split down the front and hang at the sides too stiffly, as if made of glass. They have large, floating symbols of twisted designs full of impossible angles and geometries instead of heads." its a perfect description of cryptics/liespren
1:04:43 Joshua casually passing the drink to the Jessie through space and time.
Oh mate, that’s INCREDIBLE 😂 Thank you for pointing this out, you made my day - Jessie
Such a great catch! I love when things like this happen coincidentally
There's this theory that Shallan mom's is the Herald Chanarach. That's how she's involved with the Skybreakers, and the reason the Cryptics are so interested on Shallan. Since she's the daughter of a Herald.
It also explain the recent WOB where Brandon confirms Taln did not break. So after Shallan killed her mother, she went back to Braize, and after a few short years broke, starting the new desolation.
Such an awesome theory. I love the implications / guilt of Shallan causing the most recent Desolation.
It also explains the “Shallan’s parents were fighting over her future” thing as well. Why were they so concerned so early? It couldn’t be that she was a radiant because it seems the mother found out only just before the scuffle goes down.
My guess is that Shallan is some kind of splinter of a herald and that her brothers are not for some reason.
I doubt this theory, especially the oathpact part. I’m pretty sure that they just subverted the oathpact entirely with the everstorm and then when the fused started to return to Roshar in the cognitive realm taln just returned anyway.
@@nroke1684I agree with most of that, but I think we are missing something crucial to explain why Taln returns when he does especially knowing now for sure that he didn't break.
🤯
A Series of Unfortunate Events by Shallan Devar 😆😄😁
I think Shallan decides she needs 10 heartbeats because if it wasn't 10 the blade would be more than a normally bonded shardblade.
Very excited for this one, definitely one of my favorite mysteries going in to SA5.
Stormlight Novella 0.5 would be called "Little Knife"
"I'm terrified" could be a truth she had already told Testament when she was young, and said it again to testament and that let her soulcast.
The killing of her father, mother and Testament are truths for Pattern, to revive Testament she has to say again the same truths she said as a kid. that's my theory
I could see this
Somewhat dark theory:
What if Shallan's truth (the one she might've said to her mom during the fight) was something along the lines of "you're hurting me".
Picture this:
Shallan is playing in her father's room, drawing by the light of a diamond broam, when she hears her mother and father arguing. She tries to ignore them, tries to keep talking with her friend, who is playing in the soft white carpet, their patterns hidden among the woven threads. Suddenly her father barges into her room, face red and eyes narrowed. Before she can even scream, another man runs into the room with a knife. Her father turns around, eyes growing wide. With a roar, he charges the stranger, grappling for control of the weapon. Father manages to grab the knife for a moment and slashes the intruder in the arm, staining the carpet where her friend is red. She watches in horror as her father is thrown to the ground, pinned by the other man. Her mother comes in, and Shallan reaches out to her. Mother must've heard the fighting and come in to save Shallan! She picks up the knife, clearly in order to keep it away from the men, and walks towards Shallan.
Shallan lifts up her arms, making to embrace her mother, who Shallan is sure is likely just as shaken up as she is. "Mother," she whimpers. "What's going on?" There is a flash of metal, and Shallan cries out from the stinging pain across her palm. Her friend buzzes in alarm and tells her to run. But Shallan just smiles, trying not to cry, not wanting to make her mom feel bad. Shallan knows that it was an accident, of course. Mother wouldn't hurt her. Perhaps she just slipped, or simply forgot that she was still holding that knife. Regardless, Shallan is sure that it was just a misunderstanding. Besides, it doesn't even hurt! She picks up the sphere by her side, bringing it to her lips. She draws in the light, and the cut vanishes within moments. She smiles.
Something changes in her mothers eyes. Before she can react, her mother grabs her arm and pries the sphere out from her fists, throwing it across the room. Her friend is screaming now, screaming that she has to get away, that her mother means to do her harm. But Shallan can't believe that. Mother loves her. Mother will never-
Mother raises the knife. Her safehand grips Shallan's wrists with vicelike strength, holding them together as if she is teaching Shallan how to hold a sword. Or perhaps, she is making sure that the little girl can't move out of the way of the knife in her other hand. Her grip tightens. Something cracks, and pain shoots up her arm. "Stop it!" Shallan cries out. "You're hurting me!"
Warmth floods her body, and she hears a soft humming far in the distance. Mist curls in the air around her hands, coalescing into the form of a long knife. Or a short Blade. Her mother sees the Shardblade far too late to change her trajectory and Shallan realizes what it is far too late to stop what is about to happen. The Blade becomes a misty shadow, and sinks into Mother's chest, who falls to the floor with eyes trailing smoke.
Shallan screams.
(I'M NOT SORRY)
Hoid appears to have at least the fourth Heightening, so he can detect invested objects and people, which is likely how he is able to notice Shallan, Kaladin, Dalinar and Renarin as being bonded, and knows he is there to help them.
As for him being kinder to Shallan than others, imagine that he was likely expecting an adult he was going to push towards battle, and the first time he encounters her is as a child. There's been multiple hints that we've seen of him disliking terrible things happening to children (i.e. the child in Kholinar who's mother died that he Awakens the straw doll to convince to come out and sent with others to some safety). In his mind, she was brought in as a child soldier, and I can't imagine him taking that well.
I think the Testament reveal is gonna hit harder when we see it on screen. The visual differences between the two shardblades will stand out much more and demand that fans ask those questions. On paper, or audiobook, you reeeally have to be paying close attention to the details
All the foreshadowing leading to the Testament reveal in RoW had me convinced that Shallan was a Kandra and had killed and taken over a very young real Shallan. I'm still kinda on that boat and think we haven't hit the real truth yet of her past.
Oh my god "I killed myself" is just a next level shallan reveal i'm here for it.
A Kandra wouldn't have the necessary connection to Roshar in order to be a radiant.
That's true, but they could gain the connection. Perhaps even by stealing the body of someone already developing a bond. We see a certain other off-worlder gain a spren bond, and it also happens to be a cryptic so there may be something there too. Their order seems to be fairly distant from honor compared to some of the other orders.
@@TheInvisibleHorse Interesting. So maybe the bones they consume would be enough of a connection? Someone should ask Brandon if any other Kondras have gone off world.
It's just a theory, I don't know how much the bones would effect their spiritweb. We do have some WoBs that their are off world Kandra's, including at least one that's been on screen somewhere in stormlight.
Here's an interesting though. Shallan was able to soul cast pretty well the first time it happened but seemed to get worse over the course of the books until RoW. I had originally put this down to Shallan not being true to herself.
But perhaps Testament had been with her until she leaves Kharbranth where the Ink spren retains her to "keep her safe"
I think this is spot on.
Before I watch the episode here is my interpretation.
The truths with Pattern are:
1. I killed my father
2. I killed my mother
3. I killed my spren
Hence she is on the fourth oath with Pattern. (As the First Oath is same for all Radiant orders.)
WoR, Chapter 6:
Liespren, Jasnah called them, Shallan wrote. A moniker they don’t like, apparently. When I Soulcast for the first time, a voice demanded a truth from me. I still don’t know what that means, and Jasnah has not been forthcoming. She doesn’t seem to know what to make of my experience either. I do not think that voice belonged to Pattern, but I cannot say, as he seems to have forgotten much about himself.
Shallan says here that when she first soulcasted that voice did not belong to Pattern. That was Testament. The "I'm terrified" truth is with her. This is the 4th oath, I think, because she needs Shardblade as a child to kill her mother.
But, in WoK, when she slipped into Shadesmar in front of Jasnah she had to say another truth with Pattern, whom she had started to bond. Also of note she did not swear the First Ideal with Pattern but proceeded directly to the Second; her first truth with him. So it appears that her First Ideal with Testament was enough for Pattern also.
The Plate in OB is because of the bond with Testament. But now she also has Plate with Pattern too.
First truth is “I’m terrified”
@@frrixz With which cryptic??
@@perfectly_desi Pattern
@@frrixz In the passage that I quoted above Shallan says "I do not think that voice belonged to Pattern", that is why I said that the terrified truth is with Testament and not Pattern.
I wasn’t hugely interested in Shallans past when starting this episode but dang, you guys drew me in. Episode MVP here was Joshua
Me: :(
Chaos: Welcome to Shardcast!
Me: :)
Testament isn't a deadeye within the definitions of deadeyes as we know it. So that first time could have been testament. Shallan all through WOK and WOR was reconnecting with testament. Check everytime she summoned a blade in that time, there's an acknowledgement of some personal truth before she summons testament.
I practically went back to check in WOR and I could trace the reconnecting from killing Tyn till when she opened the Oathgate with the deep truth that wasn't: "there's something wrong with all blades.." Furthermore in the Chasm the blade she gave to Kaladin was glowing softly. That's the first time her blade was described to glow. Check this against description of other Radiants blade and you'd see that they were described to glow brilliantly not softly and where they've dimmed their glow it's on the radiant's request. The testament truths have been subtle but they've been there and reveal in ROW made it clear upon rereads. Plus there's more. I think pattern has been touched by Sja Anat and that's why she's been having trouble with her soulcasting. Once testament is fully functional, the difference will be made manifest.
Is this finally the long-awaited Dealing with the Davars 2?
As far as beryl not having her blade and shallan having her blade in WoR, I think that lightweavers get blades at individual times much in the same way their truths are entirely individual.
There’s also some shenanigans going on where Shallan used both Testement and pattern at different points in time
I wonder “I am terrified” is a repeat oath that Shallan said as a child and also in TWOK
Sure sounds like something a kid might say
I feel like 'reconstructing oaths' means speaking the same concept, but through the lens of experience and time.
To say "I'm worth protecting" as a child can be valid and makes sense, but the concept changes completely as you age and develop, after breaking the oath initially she had to redefine what the oaths meant for her in her current situation.
Or updating them.
Say that as a child it's simple to say truths... like, for example, "I love my daddy", "I love my mommy", and "I love my spren"
Then the traumatic events not only push her to reject her bond, but also make the truth change - she no longer loves her mommy in the simple way a child is supposed to, she's killed her. That crime sort of overshadows the filial love there. Acknowledging she's killed her, and the grief, and the guilt, is necessary to fix the truth "I love my mommy" - or to replace it even.
Also to me the reveal made Pattern's ability to form into a shardblade before she speaks the third ideal because she her spiritweb already had the "blueprint" for forming a shardblade from her previous bond with Testament. Also, after several rereads of Oathbringer and Rhythm of War I'm about 90% sure that Skybreakers are another exception to the third ideal shardblade rule. I think Skybreakers don't get their blades until they speak the fifth ideal. It might be entirely possible as well that Lightweavers don't get Plate until the 5th Ideal. It could be possible that starting at the fourth ideal, the Lightweavers instead get the ability to give some substance to their illusions.
Also I don't know if it was her third ideal or a later one, but I do think Shallan spoke a truth right before killing her mother and I'm almost positive that truth was "My mother is going to kill me."
About the memories, it doesn’t seem like cryptics have any individuality (from what we know about their culture) so the idea that “we” refers to the cryptics makes more sense
Also, the talk about how radiant more resembled younger shallan (I think that’s what was said) gave me the idea: what if Radiant bonded Testement
Shallan is the best character followed closely by pattern. I am willing to fight feather and weiry about this
You'll lose.
The actual physical fight, I mean. I'm willing to bet Feather fights dirty.
@@wraith.ferron i'm not above a few cheap shots
@@madisonshaw5216 new patreon tier: Cosmere Beefs Boxing!
Grace has the right idea! I have a bulletin board that is painted all pretty and covered in all my important scraps of things that don't fit anywhere. I put my important stickers there, but with the backs still on and held in place around the edges with the lips of clear tacks so they don't get holes in it. Over the years it's become a huge collage/roadmap of my varied interests.
The Testament reveal clicked so hard for me because of Pattern's comments about Shallan eventually killing him, and being so sure of it, like it wasn't IF but WHEN she killed him. I do think Testament being "killed" by Shallan was the plan all along. The whole Veil situation seemed like retconning though. That's the thing I never liked.
Um read book one again. First few chapters she says she has a secret ten heartbeats away. Just restarted the series today.
This is way before Pattern or before she even meets Jashna I think. Part one either way.
@@maba5082 Um, rude much?
@@jessi4894 sorry I can see how it can be read that way. I should have phrased it better.
"He still owes me brownies"
I demand to know who was in charge of the editing of this episode and I will feel robbed if it wasn't Jessie.
She did 2/3rds of it, I did the last hour. She definitely had a lot of fun. Brownies are coming! -Eric
@@17thShard I will sleep soundly tonight!
Thanks for answering my joke question and I hope we can hear about those brownies 😛
There’s a few goodies I included ;) - Jessie
Correction: Kaladin does say the First Ideal. On page 841 of my copy of WoK (hardcover). It’s right before he climbs up the chasm wall to tie stuff to the bottom of the bridge with Lopen.
I was wondering, what if Shallan only summoned testament to kill Tyn because it reminded her of the last time she summoned him? She is forced to defend herself which might have triggered the memory of killing her mother. Why she summoned pattern later though I am not sure.
25:00 Dude, Jashna had plate before Kaladin.
I'm so glad you guys finally got to Shallan. She is one of my favs and one of the more interesting Stormlight characters in my opinion.
Great topic! Love any reason you guys can come up with to have a long episode lol.
Was hoping you guys would address Shallan and the Midnight Mother. Theres that whole section about how Midnight Mother fled because she had faced a lightweaver like her before...was it baby shallan? Ahhh, Help!
In terms of where Shallan is in ideals: I've always imagined that her progression roughly corresponds to Kaladin's. So I picture her being at the second 'Ideal' at the end of WoK, third at end of WoR, and fourth at the end of RoW. I don't have too much to back that up, but it's what has felt right to me.
Shallan 5th Oath: I killed myself (as in her personality)
Shallan’s already at 5th oath.
That’s the thing, we don’t know what she’s on officially. Or even what counts as truths for her, for certain.
@@haldalas My headcanon is that the "truths" thing is a lie by Pattern and Lightweavers have Oaths just like everybody else, but because she's already Radiant, she doesn't have to make the oaths again. There may be information I am forgetting that contradicts me, however.
I think this testament thing was planned from the beginning but was very very carefully hidden before RoW. Pattern protecting shallan from herself by going along with her lies to herself makes sense to me(this actually explains a lot of his timidity when talking about her past with her), him being sure she would kill him makes SO much more sense now. I don't mind his early comment remembering being with her in the garden, because syl says something similar about being with kaladins parents when we know she never was. So timey wimey stuff is weird with spren
During the recreance, the spren also acted to break the bond with their radiants. Shallan broke the bond on her end, but Testament didn't.
Hoid's got some Breath, and the first Heightening grants you increased life sense and a way to look at others' auras and estimate how much Breath they have. I think those could probably be used to look at someone and see that they're a Radiant.
Damn that was a long 2 weeks without upload. I was craving content!
Forgive me if this was covered in the cast; my computer keeps glitching on me and I was only able to get through half -- It seems likely that a lot of the spookiness/unclear bits about Shallan's bond might be attributed to the covert conflict the Skybreakers and Ghostbloods have been having surrounding her family and potential experimentation on her.
Re 30:42 and Shallans truth in the moment, maybe it is "I am worth protecting ". Having a troubled childhood and (assumedly) bad self esteem, maybe in that moment she realized it is OK for her to protect herself because if her mom doesn't protect her, no one will. So "I am worth protecting " or "only I can protect myself " Would make sense there.
Just starting the episode... hoping desperately for clarity about which oath/truth Shallan/Pattern have achieved.
Well, we might actually make you more confused, but I hope you like the show! - Eric
I’m so sorry friend you’ve come to the wrong episode - Jessie
@@17thShard Lack of clarity aside, it was a great show! (Though I may be biased 'cause Shallan is my fave) I can't imagine he'll do this, but if answers from her past are pushed into Stormlight Era 2... I'mma be crushed.
Watching this episode after the stormilight 5 prologue is very funny - "What is she supressing the memory of, the secret is testament, that's the memories that she's hiding" xD
Shallan might´ve had sworn up to the 4th Ideal with Testament but since Testament was a dead-eye by OB she couldn´t actually summon shardplate since it might require a living spren to be able to coax the creationspren into becoming her plate.
So maybe she just unconsiously made an ilusion of a plate from her memories of once having seen it. Maybe that was the inciting incident for her killing her spren. Her mother (who some think was a Herald) saw her after swearing the 4th in full plate, then Shallan killed her and then she killed Testament after seeing what being a Radiant had cost her.
I feel like Shallan's bond isn't fully broken with testement because we have seen Maya said that it wasn't just the radiance who broke the bond but also the spren. And testement hasn't broken her bond with Shallan and i feel like it's a two way process.
wasn't there a lie somewhere in WOR where pattern said to Shalan when she asked him the
Spren can be healed "maybe if their knights were alive". and after ROW I think why he said that is because of Shalan's situation.
I always thought Pattern was talking about Shallan's talk with Kabsal in the gardens of Kharbranth (which also has uneaten fruit and many lies) as his first memory of her, but that description made her remember Testament in her father's garden and Pattern just sensed that memory surfacing through their bond and encouraged it.
Pattern asks Shallan while they are waiting to catch Sixteen in Lasting Integrity if she remembers the first time they met, when she jumped into the sea to look at the greatshell, Radiant calls bullshit and Pattern just goes along with it.
I totally agree with Grace on the idea of Testament speaking. Testament is completely unique among Deadeyes in that she is the only one we've ever see who's original Radiant is still alive and still bonded to said Radiant.
During the chasm scene though Pattern should have been able to speak to her in her mind, like I remember syl and wyndl being able to do so. Also when it changes shape/size it happens sluggishly instead of the instantaneous manner that is iconic to other live shardblades.
I have a notebook dedicated to maps/combat maps for tabletop games and I've found it to be a good place for stickers! I agree that laptops can be hit and miss since you'll likely replace it.
Has anyone just asked Brandon point blank if he planned testament from the beginning? I feel like he'd be honest with us
I tried asking him about that during our interview with him, but I think he focused more on Taravangian and whether that was all planned. I'd like if someone asked him this though. -Eric
@@17thShard yeah I remember the bit about terravangian and it was how he didn't try to pretend that it was his plan all a long that impressed me. I liked that he told us that he thought it could be either or right up until he wrote it. Well if I ever get a chance that will be my question haha
Contariwise about the First Ideal: saying that was enough for Venli to inhale Stormlight, and use a Surge, immediately.
Note that Bridge Four (and presumably other Alethi Windrunners) spoke the First Ideal in a general way, without saying it "to" a specific spren.
I think hoid was trying to find a spren bond. He got close to shallan and then elhokar. Seems like he couldn't attract a spren himself but he could pick one up attracted to someone else?
That's likely since usually a person would need to be connected to Roshar in order to bond them.
We also see The Sibling talk, who is described as dead.
1:38:00 with regards to Pattern lying about not meaning to kill Shallan's mother. If the cryptics choose child Shallan as a group. Which we know they like to do. Then Pattern and the other cryptics may feel guilty for choosing Shallan as a radiant and putting her in the position at odds with her mother, and providing deadly weapons to a child with which she commits matricide in self defense.
Also it would make sense that Testament's friend recovered her while Shallan and Jasnah are on the Wind's Pleasure since Testament would have emerged from the sea of beads onto solid land after a prolonged time in the "sea" that corresponds to Karbranth while she studied under Jasnah.
Keep up the good work
51:30 that looks like merely shifting the question. What was an Unmade doing in provincial Vedenar?
55:30 it looked like Hoid knew about the Davar family by Fortune, but did not know which member of the family was bonded
59:00 Why not think that Hoid just keeps up correspondence with the Spren? Trade was going on.
1:07:00 at the time of the Recreance the gemstone method was unknown, hence nobody could bond a dead Blade
1:52:00 You are assuming that all truths are equal. Why? For all we know Lightweavers can have fractional levels
2:00:00 How do you know Shallan killed nobody before her mother? In fact what did clue her mother in?
2:02:00 Of course she is regressing. Veil and Radiant didn't kill their parents. Her turning to alternates implies regressing.
Hoid is at least of the fourth Heightening it seems, which means he can detected Invested objects and people. He might not have known who he was seeking before he got there, but he definitely new once he arrived.
@@wraith.ferron+ But what does he exactly sense? I would say he sensed a spren, maybe even a cryptic specifically, but not whom it was bonded to. That took allomancy.
What if the getting of one's power's and blade is based on the STRENGTH of the truth, not the number they're on
At around 1:06:00 when you talk about the Intent-ional action of the Recreant Radiants leaving their Shards behind, it's interesting to think that the deliberate discarding of Blades was a key part of what the Heralds did at the end of the Oathpact.
From Jezri- edit: Kalak's point of view, leaving his Blade in the circle seemed to be a very deliberate action, not an afterthought or formality.
can i just point out that when the two women were talking around the 11 minute mark, NONE of the men interjected at ALL, and in fact, Eric laughed spontaneously, but did so withOUT interrupting the flow of that conversation.
and that's fucking cool
As far as her bonds go, I think she was 3rd or 4th Ideal with testiment before she broke them. Then she went down to just the 1st ideal, which she maybe didn't break which let's her keep some of her abilities, and let her summon the blade. And now she is reswearing the 2nd 3rd 4th ideals. So "I'm terrified" could be the second that she swore as a kid, and now she is just reswearing it. It isn't significant enough for an adult shallan, but as a kid it could be a big enough truth.
Oaths are already continuous (or at least subdivided more than whole numbers), no? Otherwise, how does Kaladin being close to the fourth ideal make him more powerful?
Also, while I do think there was more Brandon could have done with Pattern as the spy, I was much more worried about Shallan's worldview and fear than I was about Pattern actually doing anything bad. It seemed unlikely that Pattern would be a mastermind, and much more likely that Shallan would jump to that conclusion, cling to it in the face of opposing evidence, and be dragged down to even lower levels of mental health.
I like how at 1:04:43 Josh hands his drink to Jess through the video call
2:06:15 Jof passing a cup/waterbottle to Lady Lameness
Shallan plays, "two truths and SO MANY LIES"
Hey, just a question I’ve come up with: can a spren bond two humans/ people from the phisical realm simultaneously?
I know a lot of people who collect stickers and put them on water bottles (sometimes just overlapping them when space runs out)! I feel like extra special stickers like these deserve a display board or something though...
well on roshar everything is a spren
the only frame of reference they have is spren , it wouldn’t make sense for them to see a floating glowing thing and not call it a spren
i so hope it’s diagonarthis
Everything that isn't a humanoid in the physical plane on Roshar is either a spren or cremlings, and all powers are Surges.
oh dang
it isn’t like we call all bugs “bugs”
Alternative explanation for pattern saying what I can do, is that pattern is saying I can’t be a shard blade that is not saying that I at that time was not capable of being, but testament was
Shallan's truth before killing her mom "my mother is a herald"
Today on "Who's that shardblade?"
1:27:00 to 1:29:00 maybe the "we" in remember what we did refers to Shallan and collective Cryptics rather than Shallan and a specific Cryptic.
Ope David got there a few minutes later lol
Also with all the Cryptics being named "Pattern" I wonder if there's less separation of identity between them than between other types of Radiant spren.
Wit wouldn't need to know radiants already coming back. He's old. He's prolly seen spren in the past. Just needs detect investiture in Shallan.
Everything after the ship any oath after is pattern. Testament is dead then.
I assume speaking truths are the steps forward. (My guessed were mother father spren. 3 murders 3 truths) the split personalities could be the personalities. Did pattern periods of being quiet happen near when veil and radiant start forming?
Finally, everyone is worried about what oaths was to testament and which to pattern? To me, the WAY bigger question is what lies did little kid Shallan have to attract a cryptic?
Shallan is very weird. A windrunner could swear an oath on that
Any theories on why Shallan repeatedly mentions her dads wall safe as "glowing" extremely brightly when nobody else can see this? Is this something that everyone who has created a deadeyes experiences?
I have a sketchbook that I put all of my stormlight stickers on
Interestingly enough, with the comment of her still having her powers before finding Pattern and using them in Kharbranth, but can't really use Transformation with Pattern, it could be interpreted as there's influence from the spren bound for the ability. And there's also the comment about getting a new bond when already invested (WoB about a Returned getting a Nahel Bond).
What I mean is that Shallan being terrible at Transformation might be partially because of Pattern, either because he isn't great at that specific talent, or because of the 2 bonds.
16:20 - but also, with Shallan kinda severing the bond and particularly her wording and Intent in that moment could've just kept Testament away.
24:08 - I on't like the idea of Shallan having plate with Testament too, mainly because if she had both blade and plate when she killed her mother, like, in theory she could've plated up and just scuttle away or curl up in a corner being in her safehouse of a plate, so whipping out the blade in that case becomes even sadder, because I can imagine this blade move being just the first instinct, but I also can imagine it tieing up to something different, and that has a bunch of ways to go down...
I put the stickers on a magnet and move it around (Fridge, any ferromagnetic location, etc)
2:04:26 maybe pattern gets sleepy bc shallan just summoned testament and she slipped back on her oaths. Either something about pattern being reminded of testament dying or something about summoning testament being an act that makes shallan repress more of her memories away. Like she’s confronted with the existence of the blade and pushes it down.
It will be interesting if for the anniversary leather-bound Words of Radiance they make some tweaks to the wording so things in Shallan's past are more clear. Or book 5 may help explain things. I hope their internal wiki is very thorough!
My starspren sticker is on my laptop, beside a bunch of stickers from the kickstarter!
I don’t think she already had a plate during the thaylen war, I think she came very close to getting a plate, very similar to how Kaladin had wind spren showing up in shadesmaar in Oathbringer. But she could not take the next step like Kaladin could not.
I’ve been meaning to do a reread for the longest time where I specifically pay attention to the ideals she swears and powers she demonstrates throughout because it’s so confusing now with the revelation that is testament. I do think it’s possible that she’s already sworn up to the fourth ideal but it’s so hard to keep straight.
The guests from left to right: Radiant, Veil and Shallan
I have a drinks fridge in the garage that I use for all my stickers.
In Oarhbringer, the captain of the ship they first took talks of having a dead-eyed parent locked in a cabin.
What of Lasting Integrity? I don't think distance has any impact on bonding a dead-eye
Mom's knife: Unless it's one of the special gemstone knives
I'll take more Kaladin flashbacks if Brandon gives them to us.
Two spren and a seon. Shallan's got quite an entourage
Wacko Theory: Shallan's the avatar of Kelsier
I'm sure there is evidence to the contrary, but what if Testament and Pattern are parts of the same spren? We know that lesser spren can be split into two entities that are still connected i.e. spanreeds, so why can't greater spren also do the same?
1:17:00 Grace said that glibly but I think she might be onto something.
Shallan's past is really confusing for us, but don't worry, we aren't the only ones. She's just as confused as the rest of us 😭
I'm definitely guilty of putting my stickers on my laptop.
I'm looking forward to book 5 in the hopes that Shallan finally gets less anoying cause for the majority of rythem of war i was just, please can we get on with this. I know i'm probably alone with that oppinion. I'm exicted about seeing shallan in a better state of mind though
Shallan's 5th truth will be dealing with the fact that Kaladin killed her brother
Curious what Josh had to say at 26:00-27:00
ERIC GO MAKE HER SOME BROWNIES