Really surprised Renarin taking on the Thunderclast in Oathbringer wasn't mentioned. He shows a more powerful healing factor than other radiants when he is crushed by it "he seemed to heal more quickly than Kaladin or Shallan did, as if being crushed wasn't even a bother" and then uses light to "banish" the spren inhabiting it. "Renarin raised his fist and summoned stormlight . It glowed as a powerful beacon. And... The red molten eyes faded before that light, and the thing settled down with a last extinguishing sigh." Both quotes from "The Spear that Refused to Break" (so good). It's not exactly clear if either of these have to do with him being enlightened or not but it's still pretty interesting. Glys is also the one who tells him to use light against it.
I agree that closely follows dictionary definition, but general comments from both real life and books tend to also use deposed if they were removed by murder/execution.
Grace’s theory’s are quiet but deadly. She listens to everyone quietly and nods to their theory’s then blows all our mind with her ideas. You guys are all great individually and so fun together! Thank you.
@@cbob213 im working on a bunch right now. But ill tell ya in advance. This 17th shard channel is where its at. Im getring alot better as i do more and more rereads of all the cosmere stuff. But these guys and gals are next level!
@@voidsabre_ Not much, just enjoying the video. Trying to make finding Brandon's answers easier on the streams so that they could do the WoBs was one of my original inspirations for starting the timestamps because I thought them compiling all of those was the coolest thing. :) (Though the streams have turned out to be less WoB filled than I first assumed.) Learning they did videos as well was just extra awesome. Can't thank them enough.
For the algorithm: If a royal is killed, they are also deposed. But of course, being deposed doesn't necessarily mean being killed. That's my two cents on that.
I listen to Shardcast on Spotify, but after Erik saying this episode about how commenting affects recommendations on CZcams, I said I’d come give a like and a comment!! Love all that ye do and have been enjoying it since I got into the Cosmere last year! I just finished Mistborn Era 2 and I’m about to read Elantris which is the last published Cosmere book (not including the White Sand graphic novel) that I have to read. After that, a reread of it all I suppose! Much love from Ireland, guys 💙
I have a feeling that the Unmade will like Taravangian very much. Rayse seemed to be very restricting to his forces, including the Fused. I think Taravangian will welcome more autonomy among his forces, and I think he will embrace Odium much more than Rayse did.
Guys the tower was suppressing radiants a their use of stormlight for surges! Only adhesion and Lift's progression worked! That's why Venli couldn't surge bind with stormlight. You probably get there right after I paused the video but I needed to say it here!
I also think there's a good chance Rlain and Renarin can't use voidlight and that Venli can only cuz she's a Regal in addition to being a radiant, though I don't know.
Okay, I got a quick question for you guys after watching the bit about Sja-anat enlightening Spren. If you had an Allomancer Lightweaver (or Elsecaller) could they burn a metal and then use the incoming Preservation Investiture to "unmake" a Spren into a splinter of Preservation?? I suppose it comes down to whether or not the Intent of the Soulcaster can grasp the influx of Preservation's investiture and infuse a Spren with it, but we see Raboniel doing that part with voidlight and the Sibling, so I think as long as it can channel the investiture properly (maybe singing Preservation's tone/rhythm would help with that), an Allomancer+Soulcaster could use Transformation to Soulcast a Spren with Preservation's investiture.
@@carl11547 Right, but Allomancers pull Preservation's Investiture through the metal to create the effect, and the mists are the gaseous form of Preservation's Investiture. Right?
@@halyoalex8942 That's how I understand it, but there does seem to be a difference between Light and solid forms of Investiture (like the god metals) or liquids (the various god pools).
After being reminded about the Nightform I had a weird thought that is almost certainly conflating coincidences... Nightforms see into the future. Truthwatchers do so as well and bond mistspren. Spots in the future around those who can see into the future are black spots. Nightwatcher's name is composed of parts of both of those names--or more likely those names stem from the Nightwatcher. Nightwatcher is a "dark green mist". From this, one semi-logical and one bonkers conclusion: Mistspren are associated with Nightwatcher, and Nightwatcher is associated with those black spots, or unknowable futures.
Maybe if enough spren were to be corrupted, it would begin to change Odium as a Shard? Whatever Sja-anat exactly does in order to corrupt is probably something that can be reproduced by other beings. After RoW, I'm inclined to think it has to do with messing with lights and harmony. So, Odium might not want his investiture to mingle with Honor's investiture for the same reason Odium never takes up other Shard after killing them. He doesn't want his intent to be changed whatsoever. Could Renarin and and Rlain be a prototype for the type of invested being that a War Shard could produce? The creation of Harmony led to Twinborn. The creation of Honor/Odium Shard could lead to people like Renarin in the future?
Here's how I visualise corruption vs hybrid investiture. Corruption to me looks like overwriting on a book that's already been filled in with letters in one type of ink and one particular script with a different ink and a different script. The original writing becomes hard to read and the book is now a total mess. Hybridization is more like you mix the two different ink, generate a new script that is a combination of both scripts and write on a fresh book with blank pages.
I suppose, Eric, that under the proper conditions, a king being murdered must qualify as his also being deposed. For example, if a king's sitting for a royal portrait were to be interrupted by his own murder, then the murder almosted certainly also led to the king being deposed. 😁
I think what sja nat does is not give her investiture, i think she uses her investiture yes but to make the sprens investiture vibrate as she wants in order to remake it or enlighten it with the new combinarion of investiture
Are there plans for a Dalinar/Bondsmith powers podcast? Something about the light that Dalinar feels/sees and how this seems separate from his powers as a Bondsmith
I’m thinking Glys might have talked to Tumi while he was at the tower, and it didn’t necessarily have to go through Sja-Anat. But maybe I forgot a reason that can’t have happened
How do they always manage to find the right quotes/scenes for what they're talking about? Did they just bookmark every single scene Renarin gets mentioned in, so they can find them all at a moment's notice?
What you don’t see is the 15 minute research break where we all search our ebook to collectively try and find something 😂 Though if Renarin is involved, Feather can probably quote you those scenes verbatim if she tried. - Jessie
I have a theory I believe that Unmaking is the process of making some other investiture into Odium investiture, and that Enlightening makes investiture into War investiture
1:38:04 I thought Feather's joke was pretty good. Just to stumped to notice I guess, not even a groan. Edit: Whoops, missed David's smirk/dance, and Ian hiding a smile but still
Sanderson works so well with the “background” so I have a hunch the unmade are a crucial piece of the next half of SA *obviously But along the lines of SPOILER how the mist is snapping people in Mistborn book 3
What if Odium unmake some Unmade before. For example Nergaoul. Before unmaking he was more like Sja-anat with his own plans and personality and after unmaking he is just a mindless Unmade of Odium.
Wohoo!!! New shardcast. Yaaay Edit: What IF Renarin is Honor's champion for the final ten days? I have no evidence or investment in this theory but anyway.
This video you are looking at has always had this thumbnail. Rhythm of War release we did full size art. We have a bit more structure now and might go back and get things to our more modern structure. But yeah I think the full-art thumbnails are pretty good :) -Eric
If Raboniel was using the surge of transformation to unmake the sibling, does that mean that Elsecallers could unmake things as well(possibly using spiritual transformation?)
Very late comment I know, and not 100% on my cosmere mechanics atm…but I might have a little theory What is Renarin/Rlain are having weird truthwatcher powers because they’re using Stormlight and not Warlight?
Raboniel was doing more than just infusing the gems, right? At least that's what I got from the book since she said she needed to focus otherwise it could go wrong. Plus she seemed to be changing the makeup of specific components of the fabrial that is The Sibling in a specific order. This made me think there was more behind unmaking than just 'pumping in' Odius investiture into a spren. Do we know if enlightened spren follow the same path for progression through the oaths? If not, it would be extra interesting to follow Rlain's progression. As long as we get the progression from a regular Truthwatcher as well. Renarin is already at least of the 3rd ideal and has been since the end of Words of Radiance so we won't really get it from his POV (at least not anytime soon). Vargodium mainly wants to save all of them (whatever that might mean) so I will have to see how much he cares about those Truthwatchers existing.
Ok, I might have totally assumed that it's standard to get the blade at the 3rd ideal, but at the 2nd one just doesn't feel right to. Didn't we say Jasnah is at the 4th ideal (at least) because she has plate? Technically we don't know that either. We have no idea at which Ideal Elsecallers get their blade and plate. I just assumed it would be about the same for all orders except for Lightweavers since Lightweavers do their whole progression in a different manner anyway.
Really surprised Renarin taking on the Thunderclast in Oathbringer wasn't mentioned. He shows a more powerful healing factor than other radiants when he is crushed by it "he seemed to heal more quickly than Kaladin or Shallan did, as if being crushed wasn't even a bother" and then uses light to "banish" the spren inhabiting it. "Renarin raised his fist and summoned stormlight . It glowed as a powerful beacon. And... The red molten eyes faded before that light, and the thing settled down with a last extinguishing sigh." Both quotes from "The Spear that Refused to Break" (so good). It's not exactly clear if either of these have to do with him being enlightened or not but it's still pretty interesting. Glys is also the one who tells him to use light against it.
Great point!
Removed from leadership position but kept alive: deposed
Removed from leadership position by being killed: assassinated
I agree that closely follows dictionary definition, but general comments from both real life and books tend to also use deposed if they were removed by murder/execution.
Grace’s theory’s are quiet but deadly. She listens to everyone quietly and nods to their theory’s then blows all our mind with her ideas.
You guys are all great individually and so fun together! Thank you.
For the record, I laughed at Feather's joke about Eric not being clueless because you had 4 clues at that point
I've been watching here on YT for years, And you guys all Rock! I love the enthusiasm and I'm so excited everytime new episodes come out.
Siiiick. 17th shard then the UFC. Let's go!! :)))
Do more SA video's dude!
@@cbob213 im working on a bunch right now. But ill tell ya in advance. This 17th shard channel is where its at. Im getring alot better as i do more and more rereads of all the cosmere stuff. But these guys and gals are next level!
Yea good to see you on here. Watching your GOT videos is what got me into SLA and Mistborn. Thanks for killing months of free time lol.
@@liberTvalance my pleasure, ralph. 17th shard is where its at tho :))
Just in case rspixart sees this, the art used for the thumbnail is incredible and I love it.
Thanks for more than doing them justice!
YOOOOO what's up Timestamp guy?
@@voidsabre_ Not much, just enjoying the video.
Trying to make finding Brandon's answers easier on the streams so that they could do the WoBs was one of my original inspirations for starting the timestamps because I thought them compiling all of those was the coolest thing. :) (Though the streams have turned out to be less WoB filled than I first assumed.)
Learning they did videos as well was just extra awesome.
Can't thank them enough.
I'd comment my theories, but as a Truthwatcher I prefer to keep those to myself.
Every time I watch this podcast I feel like I meet with my friends who I share interest with. Such a good atmosphere and vibe! Cheers from Ukraine :)
Evgeni may have thought that that Tumi joke was corrupt, but i would argue that it was enlightened.
Oh great shard of the algorithm, lash this video upward into the viewing of others, that it may Ascend to greater Heightenings.
For the algorithm:
If a royal is killed, they are also deposed. But of course, being deposed doesn't necessarily mean being killed. That's my two cents on that.
I have to believe that Book 5 is going to be a nonstop Sanderlanche of truthbombs and reveals... There's just too much.
What I really want but probably wont get is Gavilar's prologue pov, but as an epilogue with a bombshell cliffhanger.
@@Fulldre That would be so badass.
Why does Evgeni look like a retired Samurai lol
He’d make a great Uncle Iroh!
Neither one of these is a take I expected to see come out of this episode, but I'll take them both :D
He looks like he is about to Jedi-trick the candy out of our hands
if I haven't done that already, it's because I can't, not because I've suddenly found it in me to show restraint!
That was the most chaotic intro ever, you guys keep outdoing yourselves.
Eric has reached true lawful chaos
@@lilybetgates9332 If anyone could achieve that, it would have to be Eric.
@@jessi4894 indeed.
Been an iTunes listener here for a while, but just wanted to comment here saying I laughed out loud at Alyx’s “you’re not clueless, we’ve had 4” joke
I listen to Shardcast on Spotify, but after Erik saying this episode about how commenting affects recommendations on CZcams, I said I’d come give a like and a comment!!
Love all that ye do and have been enjoying it since I got into the Cosmere last year! I just finished Mistborn Era 2 and I’m about to read Elantris which is the last published Cosmere book (not including the White Sand graphic novel) that I have to read. After that, a reread of it all I suppose!
Much love from Ireland, guys 💙
Thank you guys so much for doing this. I have no one around to geek out about cosmere stuff with and this helps so much.
35:05 ... I went back and reread that scene. Brilliant insight, Feather
I have a feeling that the Unmade will like Taravangian very much. Rayse seemed to be very restricting to his forces, including the Fused. I think Taravangian will welcome more autonomy among his forces, and I think he will embrace Odium much more than Rayse did.
Sja anant can enlighten saipent spren now because Odium is now invested in Roshar. Before he was invested in Braize.
The spren are one with Roshar.
Chaos: it all leads back to the killings.
Everyone: Ok, Palpatine
I don’t see them as “corrupted”. Renarin and Rlain are too cute to be “corrupted”.
When Argent said "In my opinion" I was totally waiting for you guys to respond with "Maya?"
I think I would say yes, killing a king counts as deposing them. Also, "depose" is a great word.
Guys the tower was suppressing radiants a their use of stormlight for surges! Only adhesion and Lift's progression worked! That's why Venli couldn't surge bind with stormlight. You probably get there right after I paused the video but I needed to say it here!
I also think there's a good chance Rlain and Renarin can't use voidlight and that Venli can only cuz she's a Regal in addition to being a radiant, though I don't know.
41:38 I like how Grace casually blows my mind
Okay, I got a quick question for you guys after watching the bit about Sja-anat enlightening Spren.
If you had an Allomancer Lightweaver (or Elsecaller) could they burn a metal and then use the incoming Preservation Investiture to "unmake" a Spren into a splinter of Preservation?? I suppose it comes down to whether or not the Intent of the Soulcaster can grasp the influx of Preservation's investiture and infuse a Spren with it, but we see Raboniel doing that part with voidlight and the Sibling, so I think as long as it can channel the investiture properly (maybe singing Preservation's tone/rhythm would help with that), an Allomancer+Soulcaster could use Transformation to Soulcast a Spren with Preservation's investiture.
The Preservation "light" is stated to be the mists, isn't it? You've have to infuse the mists into the spren to corrupt it, I think.
@@carl11547 Right, but Allomancers pull Preservation's Investiture through the metal to create the effect, and the mists are the gaseous form of Preservation's Investiture. Right?
@@halyoalex8942 That's how I understand it, but there does seem to be a difference between Light and solid forms of Investiture (like the god metals) or liquids (the various god pools).
@@carl11547 I think both the Lights and the Mists are gaseous investiture, the Lights just happen to be luminous compared to the Mists.
@@halyoalex8942 That's what I was trying to say, so obviously I agree. Breath is presumably also a form of gaseous Investiture.
Chana is deffers gatorgirl. She's plotting to eat Argent. She's already eaten the overlord. And the overlady.
1:24:00 No I loved that joke. I am here for all the puns. Dont stop Eric!!
I think that Chana is Liss (the assassin Jasnah used in her prologue).
I love just how done they are with the intros: "Introduction and Nonsense," they have reached their peak of craziness (so far!!!). 5 star
The sequel "this is probably another chapter I don't know"
We should do normal intros every now and then, just to keep y'all off your guard
@@_argent that would be the greatest shock of all 😆
I think murdering a king is _techinically_ deposing them
Eric doesn't seem to be harboring as much rage in this episode :)
**annoyed comment about the bad Tumi joke that will boost the algorithm**
19:15 A good insight from Grace and I think dead-on.
After being reminded about the Nightform I had a weird thought that is almost certainly conflating coincidences...
Nightforms see into the future.
Truthwatchers do so as well and bond mistspren.
Spots in the future around those who can see into the future are black spots.
Nightwatcher's name is composed of parts of both of those names--or more likely those names stem from the Nightwatcher.
Nightwatcher is a "dark green mist".
From this, one semi-logical and one bonkers conclusion: Mistspren are associated with Nightwatcher, and Nightwatcher is associated with those black spots, or unknowable futures.
Maybe if enough spren were to be corrupted, it would begin to change Odium as a Shard? Whatever Sja-anat exactly does in order to corrupt is probably something that can be reproduced by other beings. After RoW, I'm inclined to think it has to do with messing with lights and harmony.
So, Odium might not want his investiture to mingle with Honor's investiture for the same reason Odium never takes up other Shard after killing them. He doesn't want his intent to be changed whatsoever.
Could Renarin and and Rlain be a prototype for the type of invested being that a War Shard could produce? The creation of Harmony led to Twinborn. The creation of Honor/Odium Shard could lead to people like Renarin in the future?
I don't think harmony created twin born, I thought it was the end of the terris breeding program that allowed feruchemy into the population at large.
@@ShaunshankRedemption Fair point.
Being murdered is definitely also being deposed. Also puns (in general, not that particular one) suck, I'm with Evgeni!
Just discovered you guys!!! Love watching 🙌🏻
Can't wait for Jebus to make the chuckle brothers joke and for no one to get it.
Here's how I visualise corruption vs hybrid investiture.
Corruption to me looks like overwriting on a book that's already been filled in with letters in one type of ink and one particular script with a different ink and a different script. The original writing becomes hard to read and the book is now a total mess.
Hybridization is more like you mix the two different ink, generate a new script that is a combination of both scripts and write on a fresh book with blank pages.
"What's up Honor?" slayed me
Silence was a good guess. I'm with Argent, that should have been the answer.
Oh mighty CZcams algorithm bless this video with the good fortune As the wheel wills
No offence to Eric and Ben, but Grace is the best wtcc host IMO. Nailing that intro bit!
Agreed! -Eric
Grace was having a great time giggling at evgeni at the start. Great to see everyone looking so happy and healthy.
comments are good for the youtube algorithm
So they are
Indeed
Comments are good in all realms
i guess
These words are accepted.
I feel like it's rare to be deposed WITHOUT being killed, either before, during, or after... :)
100% LOVE the cosmere puns!
I suppose, Eric, that under the proper conditions, a king being murdered must qualify as his also being deposed. For example, if a king's sitting for a royal portrait were to be interrupted by his own murder, then the murder almosted certainly also led to the king being deposed. 😁
I think that by being murdered your position is deposed, but that you can be deposed without being murdered (i.e. by exile or imprisonment, etc.)
I think what sja nat does is not give her investiture, i think she uses her investiture yes but to make the sprens investiture vibrate as she wants in order to remake it or enlighten it with the new combinarion of investiture
Here from Spotify, I think dying can be considered being deposed (being removed from office suddenly and often forcefully).
Are there plans for a Dalinar/Bondsmith powers podcast? Something about the light that Dalinar feels/sees and how this seems separate from his powers as a Bondsmith
I’m thinking Glys might have talked to Tumi while he was at the tower, and it didn’t necessarily have to go through Sja-Anat. But maybe I forgot a reason that can’t have happened
I'm pretty sure what's happening with Moash and his connection to Odium is Voidbinding
Eric/Chaos being a teacher (and math at that) I really feel having to repress a murderous urge :D .
Being murdered is just a very violent way of being deposed.
I heard I could help the algorithms- as far as I understand, being killed would be a subset of being deposed.
Being murdered is being deposed
How do they always manage to find the right quotes/scenes for what they're talking about? Did they just bookmark every single scene Renarin gets mentioned in, so they can find them all at a moment's notice?
What you don’t see is the 15 minute research break where we all search our ebook to collectively try and find something 😂
Though if Renarin is involved, Feather can probably quote you those scenes verbatim if she tried. - Jessie
I laughed at your clueless joke Alyx!
I think sja-anat was helped by cultivation and maybe is being prepared to become endowment?
I love argent's outfit lol
A remnant of a remnant shall he save.
I have a theory
I believe that Unmaking is the process of making some other investiture into Odium investiture, and that Enlightening makes investiture into War investiture
1:38:04 I thought Feather's joke was pretty good. Just to stumped to notice I guess, not even a groan.
Edit: Whoops, missed David's smirk/dance, and Ian hiding a smile but still
I thought of it a second before she said it and I thought it was really great.
Sanderson works so well with the “background” so I have a hunch the unmade are a crucial piece of the next half of SA
*obviously
But along the lines of SPOILER how the mist is snapping people in Mistborn book 3
I'm pretty sure that being killed counts as a form of deposition
I didn't hate the joke, but I'll still comment for the algorithm
What if Odium unmake some Unmade before. For example Nergaoul. Before unmaking he was more like Sja-anat with his own plans and personality and after unmaking he is just a mindless Unmade of Odium.
Grace's laugh is cute and amazing
Also not hitting on grace
"The woman who is called Battar"
Aren't Radiant spren of both Honor and Cultivation, so what happened to Cultivation's investiture in enlightened spren?
@Alyx I laughed at clueless joke @1:38:04
Opinion: being murdered does not equal being deposed
This is going to be good
So that's how you pronounce Rock's name!
That pun was horrendous.
"unmaking" = factory reset confirmed 🤣
Let Chaos reign!!
Deposed by shard Execution
being killed is 100% being deposed. I support Erik!
Wohoo!!! New shardcast. Yaaay
Edit: What IF Renarin is Honor's champion for the final ten days? I have no evidence or investment in this theory but anyway.
No suspense, then. We know Renarin survives to have his own book in the Back Five, so he couldn't lose a duel to the death.
Watch Sanderson name a character "Guess" so at some point that would be a valid guess
Wow I'm really digging these thumbnails. Did you recently change them or was it always like this?
This video you are looking at has always had this thumbnail. Rhythm of War release we did full size art. We have a bit more structure now and might go back and get things to our more modern structure. But yeah I think the full-art thumbnails are pretty good :) -Eric
I think deposed implies formal legal action.
If Raboniel was using the surge of transformation to unmake the sibling, does that mean that Elsecallers could unmake things as well(possibly using spiritual transformation?)
Evgeni high key be looking like a pilgrim
Could Ja'anat "heal" the dead spren shard blades?
What if Renarin's lightweaving works on voidlight, whilst his healing works on stormlight?
I was actually waiting for the to me joke
Assassination is the same as being deposed
AWESOME!
Being murdered while being a king is not being deposed, it is regicide.
Very late comment I know, and not 100% on my cosmere mechanics atm…but I might have a little theory
What is Renarin/Rlain are having weird truthwatcher powers because they’re using Stormlight and not Warlight?
Do we know who the Enlightened truthwatchers say their oaths to?
Could the unmade be splinters of a shard odium shattered? Idk if all he fought are accounted for
Raboniel was doing more than just infusing the gems, right? At least that's what I got from the book since she said she needed to focus otherwise it could go wrong.
Plus she seemed to be changing the makeup of specific components of the fabrial that is The Sibling in a specific order. This made me think there was more behind unmaking than just 'pumping in' Odius investiture into a spren.
Do we know if enlightened spren follow the same path for progression through the oaths? If not, it would be extra interesting to follow Rlain's progression. As long as we get the progression from a regular Truthwatcher as well. Renarin is already at least of the 3rd ideal and has been since the end of Words of Radiance so we won't really get it from his POV (at least not anytime soon).
Vargodium mainly wants to save all of them (whatever that might mean) so I will have to see how much he cares about those Truthwatchers existing.
Ok, I might have totally assumed that it's standard to get the blade at the 3rd ideal, but at the 2nd one just doesn't feel right to. Didn't we say Jasnah is at the 4th ideal (at least) because she has plate? Technically we don't know that either. We have no idea at which Ideal Elsecallers get their blade and plate. I just assumed it would be about the same for all orders except for Lightweavers since Lightweavers do their whole progression in a different manner anyway.