10 Main Character Mistakes New Fantasy Writers Make
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2024
- Avoid these mistakes and you'll boost your chances of writing a great main character.
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⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction
00:33 - Lacking emotional truth
03:18 - Weak challenges
06:33 - No attempt to see them from antagonist's perspective
07:45 - One-dimensional
11:30 - Not describing through their lens
15:04 - Seeing plot as separate from character
17:02 - Weak introduction
19:11 - Hype without action
21:01 - Weak goals
23:27 - Doesn't solve the climax
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lol using kvothe as an example of a good character or good writing undermines your whole career bud
@@numberonedadBelittling them only speaks to your own character defects clown. No one is going to take you seriously except for other clowns which are those who do not care about reality just emotion/hypothetical thought experiments which do not match reality.
I have been a writer for a few decades. My confidence and financial situation kept me from publishing a single book. I actually have a story I add to from time to time that has thirty years of development. I really did start out originally just using characters from other mediums. I eventually created a few original characters. The unoriginal characters developed in the universe eventually become somewhat original. Though, the first characters I wrote have only occasional cameos these days in the story. I was around seven when I started the story with my brother.
The point of advise to "write what you know", is the fact that many inexperienced writers have idea of what they want write. But lack proper knowledge of this subject. To give most obvious example, while you don't need to a soldier to write military SF. You still should have knowledge about this subject and not just copying what you see in the movies. As in many cases it is already a nonsense.
For example fact that Roddenberry was in military, resulted with Star Trek having a lot of elements of actual navy operation in the show. That give it far more realistic feel then many contemporary space opera. Though take a note that it was before 1975 clasification reform. Unfortunately many writers copy video game size classification, what is based on scaling mechanic and not actual task oriented system used by real military.
In fact coping characters from other media, is the opposite of "written what you know" but more so called fan fiction. What is true bane of modern media. I have no problem when it happen in amator works, but those things must be avoided in the proper media. With most known example being Marry Sue, so writer stand in character who bend laws of universe to be center of attention (it is a myth it is just about the character skills or especially gander).
But yes. Writer should focus on emotional motivations of the characters. Not on writing technical manual.
Regard plot vs character driven story. This is not wrong on principle, until you fall in the trap of genre works. So forgetting that almost everything is a spectrum. In character written stories they are the focus. We are expected to care about them, even if they fallow slice of life formula, when nothing major take place.
On the other extreme, in epic work the world is the true protagonist. With the various characters being only POV for the different sides of the larger story, what may have galactic scale impact. To give Song of Ice and Fire as examples, where half of major character is already dead.
BUT! That doesn't mean that characterization is not important in work what focus on the story, the same way as even best characters would not save us from boring and contradictory circumstance. It is always a balance. Even if characters in Song of Ice and Fire are expected to die, they still do have strong writing and own motives.
In a lot of my stories I tend to have the resolution of the overall conflict to be a collusion of main character and several other side characters, rather than just having the main character solve it alone. I find that to be much more satisfying because not only does it make it easier for me to not allow side characters to go to waste, but it also elevates the comradery and friendships that I enjoy writing about.
good way to make the end of the book a true "climax". hard to put down a book when all the characters are working together finally
That sounds like the plot complementing the theme well.
Perhaps the real writing mistake, are the friends we make up along the way~
It's funny you should say that, because I've been racking my brain on how *not* to do the "power of friendship" trope for the main character. You know what I mean: the hero's main strength is that he has friends and treats them well, which overcomes the villain.
It's been done a lot, and I keep wondering "what would the alternative look like?" In relation to your comment, I think it would have to mean the hero makes a choice or choices that take things just that one step farther then his friends and side characters. Maybe they helped get him there, but then only he can really take the final step.
@@YountFilm I think a solid solution to that would be having a character who has been dependent on his friends the entire series, finally take on the ending on his own merits. Mistborn kind of did that, Vin was with her crew the whole time learning, and then had to face off at the end by herself
If your main character isn't inextricably tied into the plot, then you have neither character nor plot. You have some guy who's there while stuff happens.
it worked for forest gump
kinda billy pilgrim too, but in non-sequential order
because he has come unstuck in time
So, there are absolutely ways to work around this. I imagine a story in which the primary character being followed is constantly changing, while only one character is returned to repeatedly. All of the temporary characters are the ones pushing the plot forward, they're the ones the story is happening to, while our recurring character is the one we just get to know the most intimately, despite their plot being seemingly unconnected to the main plot.
That's just the setup, and you could take it in a thousand different directions. You could have a later book where it turns out the character actually is connected to the plot, which would be what most readers would expect, or you could have that character remain as a seemingly unnecessary part of the story, making them a permanent mystery for anyone who reads about them. You could have a twist that this character we've been returning to is actually a random person living in the future of this saved world, and you could have sprinkled clues within their pages to hint at this being the case. At that point they would essentially have been a foreshadowing tool for you, with false clues and everything. You could go with some sort of "This is the main villain after redemption/amnesia" plan, it would make sense for the antagonist to be your primary draw for the story anyways, since they'll be the driving force of the plot. I don't know, that's just a few off the top of my head. I just think with enough creativity we can make main characters who don't necessarily have to be protagonists.
Tbh im writing a character driven fantasy not a plot driven one so while there are plots in the characters lives. Things they are trying to accomplish or stop its because they choose to do these things based on their beliefs which is really just my idea that free will is what drives the world. Not some dichotomy of good and evil.
I especially love it when the main/major character is told by someone they are a *_Leader_* , and I'm sitting there thinking at what point before this have they demonstrated any traits that could charitably be called 'leadership qualities'. Then they go on to show they don't even have the ability to lead shore leave sailors to a brothel.
I had the experience with an (overpriced) ebook a few months ago. MC was dubbed leader of the expedition because she told two guys fighting to shut up and calm down. This somehow translated into her being most qualified even though she had no survival skills or unique knowledge compared to the others and the only other competent guy for his head eaten (literally). She then gets separated from the group and they proceed to do jack all for like a week without her there.
It wasn't good.
For some it makes sense, they already were a leader of a few, but now they get forced to lead way more people and they are not happy about it.
Now if they clearly weren't a leader don't make them one.
"He cant even lead sailors to a brothel"
Im going to write that down.
Its just beautiful line of yours. XD
@@CleverFoxStudiosSounds like none of them have leadership qualities. A leader adds to survival, success, etc. Whatever is the word which describes success in that context. It sounds like that group cannot even act independently. Independent action is a lower bar than that of a leader.
@@mateuszbanaszak4671Gorden from Black Clover is a literal example of this since his speech is so low volume that people cannot understand him. He has a genuine heart of gold and just wants to make friends.
One fun twist to people telling you that a character is this or that thing instead of showing that character to be that thing is that those people could be wrong.
I don't want to say what it's from to spoil it, even if it's not really a major plot point, but there was a story where one character was known across the world as the most powerful being on the planet. The issue is that the character had literally no powers (as I remember), he just kept happening to be at a location where a powerful enemy showed up and got taken down by the main character of the story who had a habit of defeating enemies without telling anyone about it, so all those defeated bad guys got attributed to the other guy.
Not all reputations are earned or accurate.
Lmao bro referencing One Punch Man 😂😂😂
I agree, that's a great way to twist things. Without spoiling things, I'll sat that the recent Fincher movie (The Killer) did this well
Assuming you are talking about the manga about s bald person. That character was not hyped for us, the readers. We know right away that they didn't do any of that. I imagine if it wasn't the case the character would be worse..
@kencolac2860 I watched the anime, so not sure how the manga did it exactly. While it is true that they didn't hype the character, we knew that he was the number one hero, and considering who was ranked under him, it's implied that he was massively powerful, or at the very least, not someone that probably shouldn't have been a hero in the first place.
@@AbonZel3Blast is the rank one S-class hero, then Terrible Rornado is number two, then Atomic Samurai, then Metal Knight. King, the character you're talking about, is fifth in rank. You're still correct about how he got that position, I'm just straightening out the details.
I think one issue with having a character with any contradictions in their nature, is that quite often certain internet reviewers will spot that, and either fail to realise it's a deliberate choice to show the nature of the character and just claim it's bad writing in action. Or, they do spot that it's deliberate and twist and turn it into something else, which is quite common these days with a certain type of internet reviewer who tends to fixate on nit-picking above all else.
*I would describe the missing aspect as **_values._* I run into this with tabletop RPG's - stereotyped characters that lack any values or personality. Barbarian smash! That what do.
Values are what compete for a persons choices.
The problem with a lot of movies and stories is their characters don't have any values. A character will suddenly flip their entire shown character for no conceivable reason other than the obvious, "well the plot needed it." That's bad writing.
Imagine a character that is generally a pacifist... but suddenly flips out if a child is getting hurt. That's not a random personality flip, it's a value decision. One can easily see something like that happening from some childhood trauma - or maybe it's as simple as they have a strong sense of justice, and they simply can't ignore watching helpless people suffer.
Imagine how that same strong sense of justice would play out... in the event of a deception or betrayal.
I can remember a SW:EOTE campaign where a person chose to create a murderhobo robot, among other bad traits. He repeatedly shocked our more normal characters. There was a point when several of our characters looked at each other and knew we'd reached the same conclusion. He was about to do some other horrible thing, and our characters only chance to stop the things they hated was a desperate action neither of them liked. We threw him off a high flying speeder, almost losing one of us in the process.
Our character's weren't turn coats. It was inline with their values, including being unable to stomach standing by any more.
If someone handed me their character sheet and they have a set of values and a general personality/disposition, I could fill in playing their character. In fact, I have done that (I did have to ask for those lists), and they were happy with the choices their character made outside their control.
Think of the traitorous character in The Stormlight Archives. He genuinely (twistedly) thinks he is saving the world by doing all those evil things. When things start contradicting his forethought plans, he wrestles with a gut wrenching decision: Does he stay in potentially a sinking fallacy and continue with the plans he now questions? Or does face that he was wrong all along, did all those horrific things for no reason and flip his actions to the other side?
You can see the struggles inside him. He's butting heads with his narcissism and prideful version of self-sacrifice, thinking he was supposed to be the hero. You can see his terror at facing his being wrong. You can see the terror he has at the prospect of abandoning the course and being wrong about that.
In the end, you can easily see him going either way - because either decision fits the clash of his competing values and established choice patterns.
*He doesn't simply flip who he is to create story drama."
@@andrewstambaugh240I think you nailed it on the head. I get annoyed as reader when I see confusing characters be used as same as contradict characters. This is something a lot of movies do that give me whiplash. Like a character suddenly becomes a different character. I feel contradictions reveal the true character underneath by either seeing the blind spot the character has or the nuance to their beliefs. Meanwhile confusing characters just suddenly change because I need them to for plot. Not really for the internal conflict.
I figured that something recently that I think a lot of writer's I've met don't understand. Your character can have a DnD class, but your character cannot BE a DnD class. If the hero's characterization is ruined for you because you see them as a rogue, but halfway through your story they realize they are actually way more effective as a barbarian, it does not mean that your character is ruined - it means that your character learned something about themselves that changes their previous image. That's not bad writing, that's growth and true to life! You can spend years thinking that you're one thing and then out of the blue find out you're farrrr better at something else and switch to that.
this is why DnD should actually trim off all their half-merged subclasses…. and instead force multiclassing. Multiclassing immediately, via design, suggest character change and growth
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922there are _many_ reasons half classes don't work
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 why on earth do I need evidence to agree with you? Or have you changed your mind in the past 2 months?
I want to say something about "Write What You Know" I think limiting your stories to your experiences can eliminate many possibilities. Like if you have a dozen characters and want them to have different issues it becomes harder to make them their own because they are just now a piece of one person. So I say "Write What You Understand" I've never struggled with addiction but I can write a relatable story about alcoholism because I know what those who struggle with it do. Please feel free to criticize my point.
i really like the idea of putting feel free to criticise my point at the end of a comment im going to start doing that
I like that, "Write What You Understand". I think its a clearer way of saying what "Write What You Know" is supposed to mean.
I guess it depends what 'what you understand' means. Like some people put so much effort into researching things they don't know and sometimes it can elevate things to such a great story or it can still be a poor story where as some of the most popular stories are riddled with misunderstandings or clear lack of understanding of how some things are. Each person's suspense of disbelief will be different and ultimately it's beetween that and the writing itself that can make or break it for readers.
Every story is the point of view of the writer.... Or writers...
Yes
I really appreciate that you said a writer should present their characters with strong challenges. I couldn't agree more. When writing, I sometimes feel as if authors get so attached to a character they've developed so well that they end up just not wanting that character suffer. I've found this to be especially true with not only a singular character in stories, but the entire force of what would be called the "good guys." As a result, the conflict never feels engaging enough because things aren't difficult enough on the part of the good guys, and too difficult on the part of the "bad guys." If the contrast/struggle is more balanced, more head to head, I personally find it to be a more entertaining read.
Anyway, loving the content. I just discovered this channel, and it's alreadg a new favorite. I'm a huge fantasy guy, too. Keep up the awesome work, though 👏
Thanks!
Are you new to Authortube my friend?
It’s the exact opposite for me, the more I love the character the more suffering they receive
Not me! Sometimes I feel like I make my characters suffer too much and I have to dial it down
Hahaha
*Stares nervously in killed my main, character, left her girlfriend (who's a half-elf, so a long live species) to rule a nation alone with only my mc's adoptive brother (to whom she was the best thing that happened in his life and the most important person) to help her with some diplomacy things*
Anyway I love the half-elf one, her name is Eden, she's a side character that I grew to love more than my mc
I think what people mean when talking about plot driven vs character driven is similar to active/passive protagonist. In character driven stories the characters and their internal struggles create the plot whereas in plot driven stories the events in the plot prompt various actions and reactions of the characters.
I am most definitely a character driven kind of guy lol. I kind of make up the plot as a reaction to my characters
I feel like a good story can be a mix of both, or can switch between plot or character driven at different points of the story. For instance, there are many stories which will start out very plot driven, and the main character is swept up in some adventure, but then at some point they sort of take control of the plot.
Or it could be a very character driven story, but then something happens that is completely out of the protagonist’s control, and they are just kinda long for the ride for a little bit.
And as with everything, I think it depends on how it’s written. If something is out of your main character’s control, it is important for us to see how that affects them. How do they react and change when put in a situation where they have no agency? And then I feel it’s important to then give them back their agency at some point so we can more clearly see how it has affected their outlook and decision making.
19:26 Hyping up the main character without justification, reminds me of Captain Marvel
HAHA
Sorry in advance if this idea has already been discussed in the comments, but I would like to add to all the advice given (and they
really good and useful) add one more small point:
- don't overdo it
I often see young authors in my country wanting to get more and more of everything. There is more “glass”, that is, poignant moments for the characters, more personality sides, more emotions that turn the text into a continuous emotional swing in which logic dies (and the reader loses his breakfast). I always want to tell such authors: don’t forget about balance. I think it's important to be able to stop expanding and elaborating on details, whether they're complexities for a character or a side of their personality, and guide the reader at least a little bit down the line.
I hope the online translator can handle the idea I want to convey...
Its what happens if you take all the advice and write and list that you MUST have them. Honestly the flow of the story is the most important to me.
@@als3022I've always claimed and stood by a primary rule: any story will live or die by its pacing.
This dropped JUST as we were deciding which project to work on finishing next. Time to refine our main characters for that! Only recently discovered your channel, but it's reignited a lot of our passion for writing, so thank you for what you do :)
Thanks! Glad to help
@@Jed_Herne one of the stories I am working on (one of about 10) has a scene early on which hints at the ultimate villain, reveals a key misconception of the main character, establishes important details of a secondary character, and gives a taste of how things are going to be resolved.
My favorite protagonist and antagonist relationship is Guts and Griffith from Berserk. Both are horrifyingly twisted and morally flawed characters, but they're both extremely empathetic, understandable and complex at the same time. Seeing how they constantly influence each other and the entire world around them is fascinating.
Griffith is disgusting. I can't ever call a rapist a favorite anything of mine.
I would have liked but it was 69 xD
And overall the anime, like all of them, is just degenerate trash that no one should waste their time with.
@@MeanOldLady Wasn’t even talking about anime, I was talking about the far superior manga. Nice attempt at trolling though lol.
That depends on people's takeaway from Griffith. The misconception is that he was sympathetic until he chose to embrace darkness at the Eclipse.
But really, he already wanted to abandon his humanity and potential for remorse so it wouldn't distract him from achieving his ambition. He viewed his followers as possessions. Toys for his war game. And Guts and Casca were his favorite toys. He was furious at them for breaking free from his control, so he hurt them both at the Eclipse to punish them.
Theme ties everything, fam. On a "macro" level: Character, Plot, Story World. On a "micro" level: Relationships between Characters, events and types of obstacles in Plot, key/symbolic locations in the Story World.
Theme, in this random dude's opinion, should be the first step in every writer's process. If we can't make it the first, then it should be referred back to and worked on after every step until found; because it's literally the DNA that ties everything together.
All the greats, from Gaimen to Nolan, all speak to the importance of Theme. Mastering it really unlocks that Ultra-Instinct-level of clarity in storytelling...At least, for me, it does! Not saying I've mastered it yet, but it feels like, after 13 years of writing, I can finally see the light at the end of this beautiful/frustrating tunnel!
Well said
@@Jed_Herne maybe i suck, or maybe i'm next level. i have themes. lot's of them. i guess i started out with ass-backwardness - i like erasmus dedicate it to folly - but there's identity, relationships, contradiction and change, failure of knowledge, the unspeakable, strength as weakness, weakness as strength. i have themes, no central thesis, stinks like a moral, and maybe this means i suck, but it's actually more difficult to outline than write. it doesn't neatly fit 3 or 7 act structure or hero's journey. none of this is the difficulties i'm having. when i work those out i'll decide if i should cram it into a structure it may not fit, or if i'm here to do something different, like my characters would
@@intellectually_lazy I find that nearly every story has a central thesis, and usually plenty of smaller themes and ideas too. If your protagonist(s) are holding themselves back because of something they have to unlearn, or if they succeed because of something that comes to define their arc, then that _something_ usually ends up being it in my experience, even if the story isn't written to teach the reader something like a 'moral'.
It really ties into what the _point_ of your story is. Why does it exist? Is it only there because you wanted to write a story? That often leads to the creation of shallow plots that just regurgitates things you've seen before. Theme isn't the _only_ reason a story can have to exist, but it is a common one, for good reason.
One tenique I like is when the first chapter or scene manages to encapsulate and introduce the whole novel's theme and story.
When it is done well one only notices it on the second reading after you already have a fuller idea of the theme and have read the story.
I remember a real life example of transferring respect from one character to another. As a teenager I went with a friend to meet someone irl that she met online before. He came with a friend as well. A big muscular guy who presented him as some sort of silverback gorilla. Driving possibly dangerous people away from us girls, while supporting his friends. He invited us (to McDonald's 😂 but hey, we were teens) and he was the type of guy we somewhat adored. Then he got a phone call from another guy he had to settle things with. He panicked. This muscular big guy panicked over a phone call of a possible enemy who wanted to come for him. To say we girls were intrigued would've been an understatement. Who could possibly make this guy shiver in fear? Even consider him to run away? He was so very masculine.
Well, end of the story, the other guy came into said McDonald's to pick a fight. He was almost a full head smaller than me, pretty lean and not at all imposing. The "fight" they had was settled with handing over 15$. Needless to say, big guy became somewhat of a laughing stock for us, while small guy hold much more of at least my interest for a while.
Wow, way to reinforce toxic gender roles.
It's fascinating how different people are because if I had witnessed that myself, I would definitely be more interested in the big guy because he poses such a different contrast to the usual norm. Don't think that would have been something to laugh about or lose my respect for him, but most teens are brutal that way unfortunately.
@@ravenwolf2746 My friend and me definitely were, but the other girl who was with us went into a relationship with the big guy for almost two years afterwards. So not all teens are this way, I guess ☺️
@@RocketJo86 That's sweet. 🤧
The little guy sounds somewhat like Kaz Brekker from Six of Crows.
In regards to number 10: I actually think this can be used really well as an intentional inversion. I would say the first Mistborn trilogy actually does something similar to this because Vin is kind of a red-herring for most of it and not really the most important character in the climax or the story when you look at it as a whole.
On the "No attempt to see them from antagonist's perspective" segment, I have some addendums. With very, very few exceptions, my villains are monsters. Not humans who are in the "You're a monster!" camp, but actual monsters. This is true for both "this is basically a crazy violent bear" and the more "thinking and feeling dragon" aspects. Realism is fine and all, but I feel like a lot of writers simply are incapable of drawing up primal motivations that you can see despite literally being incapable of relating to a bear or a dragon.
As someone who really dislikes the "a monster, but mentally a human in every way" villain, I'd really like people to untrain themselves from the very way presented in the video. But that's just me, who prefers to see actual, non-human enemies that aren't just dumb animals or "basically human"-and I especially hate when I see stories of "the enemy is non-human" but then most of the story's conflict is just human versus human. I consider it THE #1 sin in fantasy writing.
I learned to write based on Indian, Chinese, and Japanese sources and, uh, hot take-you can keep the plot and characters separate juuuuuust fine. Not explicitly talking about fantasy here (I'm primarily a science fantasy writer, so the cues are a bit off. The plot usually provides some sort of engine for the story to operate under, regardless of what the actual story is supposed to be. Plot is not the character. Setting is not the character. All of this largely depends on the narrative through-line, but yeah, if your narrative through-line is "How do we fix the thing?" or "How do we stop the thing?" or "How can we do the thing?" then yeah, it's "plot driven" story no matter what. There's plenty of hard scifi that are "setting driven" too, like Rendezvous with Rama, and that book's characters and plot take a back seat to the showcase. Not every novel needs to be an action movie or-God forbid-an allegory, friends.
It can still work with monsters, even when they are no particularly inteligent. Just focus on things a monster would value. They can see them as weak, as prey, as a treath to their safety or territory, or worse, to their cups. They can see them as a foe, a nuisance, beneath their attention or as a rival.
The dragon seeing a knight that has been send to kill it might think of them as just like any other food or may see them as a weakling and a fool who doesn't know in how danger it is, they might consider them a serious treath with their weapons and armor, in this case the dragon would be scared of those things, not of the one using them, for it the knight is less than nothing defenseless without that metal. Or they just might think of them as a nuisance that is anoying them no diferent than a fly and considers their bravado and stuborness like a flaw even if it doesn't think that exactly. Maybe the dragon knows that knights like treasure too and seeing them in their lair they will asume they want it and protect it.
Even just the diference of: Prey, Rival or Danger. Gives a good idea of how the dinamic between the two will be.
For mine, my "antagonist" is the setting itself. A world warped by a powerful entity. The thing itself doesn't care about humans, doesn't even perceive them. Just its existence leaves a wake of corruption that is caustic to human life. So instead of having the antagonist's view, I focus hard on personification of the world itself, and refuse to describe the entity in a large scale.
Go watch Frieren RIGHT NOW
@@floricel_112 It's certainly extremely on-point for my silly rant.
You should do another one of these types of videos about how to avoid the pit falls of various tropes and how to use them effectively. I don't know how many times I have looked at a fantasy book and thought "oh god, not another chosen one."
I think this video applies very well to writing characters for dungeons & dragons and speaking with your dungeon master about your backstory
Robert Jordan does the point of view thing really well- it is very clear in wheel of time that everything is filtered through the characters' points of view (the omniscient descriptions excepted). Brandon Sanderson has discussed Jordan being so good at this in some of his BYU lectures and Jordancon videos.
This video has been a god send for me. My main desire for my writing is that what I write brings emotions to the reader. Evil as it may sound, I want my readers to cry at a sad scene, to laugh at a comedic point, to get angry at the villain, and to be understanding of the villain when the reason comes about. All these mistakes and how you talked about them has helped me start to solve and fulfill that desire
In a first draft I'm more focused on getting down what i want to happen. I intend to go back through it and "complicate" it, with these kind of concepts.
Wonderful ideas, Jed. You saved me from a large dilemma i’ve had in my own main character for my first novel. I’m working on making his character flaws more personal and relatable, less annoying hahaha.
the one dimensional part reminded me of the fact that i keep coming back to this idea of the main character's senior or whatever whos a great person currently but has a past of being a really cool villain
This is some really great advice on how to flush out my antagonists when I feel like my protagonists are so real. Feeling inspired after this video, thank you!!
This was really good. Don't sell yourself short. All this is true for all stories, not just Fantasy.
Interestingly, my writing didn’t click until I saw the plot and character as two SEPARATE stories. I come up with the overall plot first, as well as list all the major scenes that I think we be particularly entertaining. Then I write a separate outline of the characters’ internal journey. Then I start writing from the top, working the characters into the plot. The fun part for me is discovering how the plot changes the characters and how the characters change the plot. Often ideas crop up from these changes that have a cascading effect, requiring me to go back and add or revise a previous scene to lead to incorporate the changes, but it’s all very satisfying to see it all come together. To me, it’s like the plot and characters are engaged in a complex series of dances, which are sometimes discordant and require modifying the choreography to get them in sync.
Great video. Came just in time as I was struggling with a singular character in my story that didn't have the impact I was wanting. I had some trouble pinning down what was missing and you solved the mystery for me. Thanks!
This video puts into structured words the thoughts I’ve been attempting to organise for a very long time with regards to duality in storytelling.
I bet this video hasn’t given me a complete description, but any incompleteness that’s present is exactly what will drive me to seek the truth by experience! Also I’ll have my own story to share out of it, which was my initial goal!
So I'm new to your channel, I've been brainstorming and taking down ideas for multiple books for years now. However deep inside I always knew I wasn't quite ready to sit down and write a good story. This video made me feel like I knew what I was missing in a way I could essentially tackle by sitting down and doing the adult equivalent of homework. Thank you so much and here's to hoping one day you see one of my books and are impressed.
Ok, that double description sold me the book!
Thanks for the video, too!
The best characters always have something that they need to improve on.
A recent D&D character I started using was actually in a friend's Ravnica-Themed D&D campaign. Brask, a Viashino Sorcerer of the dragonblood subtype (using the brass dragon lineage for a dragonborn as the proxy) is, what would be a Chaotic Evil character. Most people don't like Chaotic Evil characters because a lot of people who play them make the character little more than a murderhobo. Brask is different, because I thought of his alignment using the five colors of mana and picking three that resonated with him. As a Rakdos Cultust, hes a murderous clown musician, yes... But he aspires to be a headliner rather than an opening act, which emphasizes his alignment to the Red and Black colors of his guild.
But, I know that the Cult of Rakdos is more than just murderous clowns and performers, their job is to work the foundries of Ravnica and make sure that any place that needs metal, has it. So I had to think of a third color that would influence his growth. I settled on Green because while hes not a fan of order, he does want to have fans that might actually survive his performances and tell others how awesomr it was so more people would show up next time.
i love the idea of using MtG colors as a tool for character development!
Looking at your writing included as an example here (of contrasting two characters' experience of the same thing, around 14:00), it doesn't feel as though the writing followed your own advice as much as it could have. And your advice was SO good that I was hoping to see more evidence of it being used in the example.
So the idea is a description of a place seen from two different people with wildly different feelings about it, and those feelings are expressed in the way they describe the place:
Rovan's description had a suitably bitter tone, but he was barely describing what they were looking at and was done in one short line. The rest of his text was just how he felt about the people who lived there, which we'd probably already know. Instead I'd want to see his seething description of the place that shows how ominous, threatening, deceptive, repugnant, etc. he thinks it is. The only descriptor we have for that in his description is 'drowned in shadow', which is great, but there could be SO much more - maybe it reminds him of a huge insect nest, maybe the trees seem twisted and sickly to him, maybe the buildings (if there are any) seem to be watching and judging, maybe he bitterly notes the difference between powerful floating privilege hanging like a sword over constantly-in-danger townsfolk below, literally taking their sunlight.
Zora's description on the other hand should have been a genuinely opposing description; yet though she described the place more it just seemed kind of 'neutral', and not different enough from Rovan's. We knew she was happy because she was described as smiling, but I wanted to see it in her text. I'd want her description to be about how sparkling and beautiful it all is, how strong and ancient, how noble and inspiring: sunlight catching on windows or rock faces, pennants/leaves /mist (whatever) on the morning breeze - colour, life, excitement! She could describe the same twisted tree or rock crack as Rovan, but find it charming instead of sinister. But the 'upside-down mountain' didn't really communicate the joy she felt.
And comparing dragons to flies is kind of gross and implies dirt and disease, which would've suited Rovan better than Zora. She could've been compared them to dragonflies(!) instead for a much prettier (and apt) visual.
Are there other descriptions of 'Alegium' in the book that give description of how it looked, like what kind of openings in the rock (natural? man-made? ornamented?) what sort of rock (what colour, texture?) and specifics? That's the other thing lacking in both descriptions: anything specific. In fact there weren't really many descriptions in the description, it was 'mountain', 'lake', 'city', 'dragon'. If I was your writing teacher for this I'd be asking for more description, flavour, and specifics here - even in tiny snippets like this - to make the whole thing more uniquely yours.
Great advice though, thanks! :)
That's something I noticed several times watching Jed's videos. I love his advice, and I love the way he presents it: it's the best writing-coach channel I watched.
But as soon as he presents us examples from his books, I can only think about the abyss that there always is between knowing what's to be done and actually pulling the trick (and that doesn't really help my morale).
Check your sources; Jed is a CZcamsr with like 4 published books (which needed ... kickstarter campaigns? I've never seen anything like this in my life) and people are expecting him to have anything of value on this channel yet?
I dont even know why I clicked this THIS THUMBNAIL just caught my eye. The way he looks at the sword and overall the Scenario just looked facinating.
Thanks for your video man!! Best wishes from Iceland.
Tysm 😭 i've been wanting to write my book gor ages
That's an amazing, well-edited video, super helpful, lots of value, and lots of hard work that you put into this! Thank you so much!
Uh not even half way through this video and I'm subscribed. There's so much to think about in such a short window in this video, It's perfect.
Your videos are amazing and has helped me learn so much about writing and how to improve it!!
I agree on many points but there are many ways to write a story and unconventional ways to do it. It's more difficult to do that though it requires more talent a deep understanding of human emotions and a great capability to write complexity.
This helped a lot. Thank you.
I needed this so much!
Sweet, new checklist!
Great video and well versed. This will come in handy as I'm about to refine some characters I made for an idea I'm working on
Thank you so much for this video! Especially the part about breaking down characters' contradictory natures. I find I have a hard time breaking down my own characters in a way that isnt too simple or too vague. This system is a great foundation to work off of, at least for me.
Much appreciated!
I’ve gotten back into writing again recently now that I’m finally done with exams, and I’m really glad you posted this today. I find the idea of writing compelling characters to be one of the most intimidating things when approaching writing overall and your explanations are always really clear and easy to understand, even for a rookie like myself! Thank you so much Jed for the effort you put into teaching others :D
He's instructing how to write stories that I myself as a reader surely is going to hate and leave unfinished because they do not give me what I want from a good story.
I havent even started writing my book yet I've just been world building, making the characters, how the characters effect and change the world around them. All the creatures in the world, demons, how I want everyone interacting with eachother etc. Your videos have helped open different doors to possibilitys. Thanks Jed!
Always admire these writer tips that made me relieved I draft my writing before publishing stage for my fantasy stories
Thanks for these vids!
My pleasure!
Currently writing my wary first book, so youre tips already helped me improve the story. I delibretly AVOID any talk about Chosen once and that thing. The story is wary simple. A Vampire girl accidentelly summons a boy from oure world into her fantasy world. And now they simply go explore the world to find a way to send the boy home.
Soo just your basic every other issekai anime ever, got it
@@Digitalhdwmn They did say it's simple so....
19:11 this kind of reminds me of Harry Potter but the opposite way. Harry is always depicted as a nerd while Malfoy is depicted as a confident bully and he abuses and mocks Harry, like in the Prisoner of Azkaban during classes, but at that point, Harry had slain an ancient monster in a legendary chamber never discovered for millennia using the legendary sword of one of the founders of Hogwarts, while Malfoy literally did nothing noteworthy, but the story kept the bully-nerd dynamic between the two characters even though Harry would be regarded as a legend by his peers by that point.
you have a point to a degree however I'd also argue that Harry lived in the shadow of being the boy who lived. killing a basilik is inherently less impressive and may even simply have been expected of him. I mean you're not wrong but, I do think you can argue it's more complicated than that.
I think that dynamic serves to reinforce the idea of how humble and patient Harry is. Harry by that point knows he is better than Malfoy, that he has achieved greater things, but he refuses to stoop to Malfoy's level
Right at the start of the video, and my time as a sound tech kicked in, looking at your microphone.
GOOD JOB! Some reading this might thinking "WTF?" but that is very GOOD mic placement for spoken voice pickup, and that's rare to see.
If you ask professional performers many of them would even say it's wrong, because proper placement is sadly uncommon among performers, but if you ask professional SOUND TECHNICIANS (Which is what I used to do as an occupation, for many years.) most will agree that this is excellent placement for that microphone.
Moving on to the video content, but I wanted to say thank you for an immediate positive in the video, for me.
Very useful information! Thank you!
Wow. Every single one of your videos is a gold mine.
THANK YOU plot vs. character. I never understood this distinction and kind of felt like describing something as a "character-driven story" was the author (or someone else's) excuse for droning on and smelling their own farts with worldbuilding and descriptions, rather than GETTING TO THE POINT and actually telling the story. Robin Hobb's Ship of Magic is a great example of this. Her writing is incredibly descriptive and immersive, her characters vivid, and she puts them through hell. But the entire book I was wondering when we were going to get to the story...
Another cracking video about all the mistakes I made at one point or another.
Thank you SO much for sharing your wisdom, your views, and giving a candid insight into your own writing process and way of thinking!
I wrote a short snippet of a drama about 15 years ago while I was waiting for my exams to finish. The story seemed to stay with me throughout college and slowly began to grow into more of a thriller-drama... But I haven't touched it since I started grad-school 12 years ago. Time moved on, and the urgency I once had to get my own emotions outside my mind grew less imperative than the risk of not finishing what I had been studying so hard towards.
After all this time, the story still haunts me... Or rather the fact that I have left it unfinished - that I didn't finish my relationship with my characters so to speak.
Thank you very much for your advice on how to write better protagonists and antagonists!! You have gotten me thinking about them again with a sense of wonder and curiosity, instead of regret and longing.
I want to say, while it's great to have this advice for new writers, it can be really overwhelming to have everyone say that you can't make these simple mistakes. I'm a new writer, technically. I've been writing my whole life, but only recently have been writing to publish. I've overthought my book so much because of the Mistakes Writers Shouldn't Make idea.
It's gotten to the point where I don't want to write it much anymore because there's so much talk about how new writers always make these mistakes and that you should avoid them.
Yes, these mistakes can ruin a book, especially one with potential. But for me, thinking about all the mistakes to avoid is making it harder to focus on writing the damn story. New writers can make mistakes. They will learn. I'm still excited to write my book, I know it'll be a good one, but the stress of messing up is a lot to handle.
New writers should be allowed to write a one-dimensional power fantasy if they want to. Besides, some of these "mistakes" are the main drivers of plot sometimes. The video is good, don't get me wrong, but trying to avoid all these mistakes at once for the main character, alongside all the other things to think about in a book like the plot and side characters, is a lot for new writers who might not even be trying to publish their stories!
the #1 rule of good writing is that there are no rules. there are only guidelines, and a good writer can make anything work and you should not be afraid to do what you want.
spaghetti westerns for instance are a genre of films which deliberately ignore the tropes and rules of the original westerns, with little character development and struggle. just some rogue gunslinger showing up, wreaking havoc, defeating all his arrogant enemies, and walking into the sunset with what they want, either revenge or treasure.
I would add to this since I went through this. I got caught in the writer's loop on CZcams of advice. Then one gave the best advice I have ever heard.
"The greatest crime a writer can make in writing is to not write" Ergo don't get stuck in the things you will learn about your method about your style and prose is very simply to do it. Write, you read your own stuff and then get others to read. Plan ahead, write and learn your way. Sure, advice is good, but if you stop writing because it all gets overwhelming you aren't a writer. A writer writes, and learns by writing. I self-published a novella, and I learned a ton from putting it out there. Yes, I had an editor, but still doing it is the best teacher of all.
What's bro's book? Would love to read it when it's out.
Rules in writing, as in the arts in general, are at best guidelines based on the experience of those for whom it worked before.
Listen to it but question it and fit it into the puzzle that is you. Don't take it for iron law.
The downside of this experience passed down to future artists is that we end up building walls, or the llusion of walls around what is and isn't 'the right way' to do something.
Ultimately there's no 'right' way in art unless you're copying someone else's style.
Your style you'll determine yourself, if it speaks to or clicks with people, it's done what art should.
Think of it like how Kvoth described Denna's music when he heard it for the first time in A Wise Man's Fear.
His education in music and song writing was a structured one taught by experts in the matter, his parents.
Her music he describes like watching someone walk through walls simple because she never realized or was never told that the walls were there.
She had tutors who taught her here and there but her music fits her character. She goes her own way in life, she went her own way in music, giving it an ethereal quality that he thought matched her well.
Don't get me wrong there's good to great advice here, just don't take it as the law of writing.
Amazing, I have some more direction for my ending and side characters. Thanks
Thank you, very good help.
For the 'weak challenges' point, that could be handled well actually.
There are stories where the main character is presented as super op at first, at first it seems like the villains are always getting bowled over by the hero and it feels like the story is going to be overly safe. Then one particular villain appears and has some ability (be it a particular magic spell, innate physical ability, trained in the same abilities as the main character, etc.) that nullifies the hero's op abilities and we get either a stalemate or the seemingly overpowered hero takes a solid defeat.
As an example, Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace. Early on the Jedi, who are the protagonists, Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan Kenobi, are pretty much unstoppable. With the strength of the Force they defeat the Trade Federation's soldiers every time they appear, Qui Gon Jinn easily wins games of chance by using his Force powers (the dice game with Watto), uses the Force to make leaders agreeable with him (Boss Nassa of the Gungans), etc. But this overpowered presentation ends as soon as one particular enemy, Darth Maul, appears on the scene, dueling Qui Gon Jinn one on one and overpowering him. Once Qui Gon Jinn escapes he immediately collapses, saying he had no idea what had just attacked him, and once back on Coruscant admits that 'the situation has become much more complicated'.
So, the heroes getting weak challenges *at first* can be a good setup to give you an idea of how much of a problem are the villains who can legitimately challenge the hero. Of course, if it's just weak challenges from start to finish, yeah, that's garbage.
I'm only 3 sections in and I already have ideas and different perspectives for my own story just from that. Fleshing out antagonists alone is a great help, and making sure my fights and struggles aren't boring is also a big deal. Appreciate the break down.
This video was super helpful Jed!
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome, thanks
A great Authortuber is first a great author, and a great Authortube video shows examples of the lessons it’s teaching using the author’s own work. Those contrasting descriptions of “Alegium” rooted in the characters different viewpoints was fantastic sir.
As a writer, I find this truly helpful! I'll come back to this to help me better understand my way of writing for my stories. Thanks!! ^_^
Excellent advice. In years of reading and seminars about writing, I’ve never heard some of the points you’ve made before. Thanks.
After going through all 10 points, I was pleasantly surprised to see that I seem to have most of my bases covered already, which hopefully means that my own MC is sufficiently compelling so far. Here's a sample:
My MC is the granddaughter of someone who was once considered the weakest link in a legendary adventuring party, but had still managed to become famous by somehow defeating a dragon single-handedly. In her childhood, the MC idolized him as the legendary hero that he was, and desired nothing more than to be an ideal hero like him. One day however, a rumor began spreading that his accomplishment was too outlandish to be true, with everyone in their town starting to believe the tale to be an exaggeration, or worse, an outright lie. Even the MC's parents began to doubt it enough to suggest that even if it were true, it was likely a fluke. Absolutely livid at how quickly everyone had turned their backs on her grandfather now that he was old and bedridden, the MC reassured him that she had total faith in him, but in the end he died right in front of her, believing that the rest of the world had abandoned him.
This... made the MC snap. She would never forgive the people of this world for their cruelty of making her beloved grandfather's death so lonely. Even so, he wouldn't have wanted her to become some revenge-seeking villain, and that thought made her restrain her wrath. Instead, she would clear his name by proving them wrong about what kinds of accomplishments that people are capable of. She would do something far grander in scale, she wouldn't just defeat 'a' dragon, she would defeat one of EVERY species of dragon in the world (of which there are several dozens). Not wanting to stay anywhere near the people who had wronged her grandfather so deeply, she left home when nobody was looking and sailed away to begin her journey alone. Soon, she stumbled upon an abandoned dungeon on an iceberg at sea, which housed a powerful artifact, a sentient sword with a blade of magical ice, whose strength would match the wielder's determination to reach their goal, regardless of what that goal was, or their motive behind it. With her desire driving her forward, she bound herself to the weapon with zero hesitation and began her training.
Before she was even a teenager, she had already begun making a bit of a name for herself as a small-time adventurer who would dip in and out of parties that went on quests that would advance her goal, especially any involving draconic foes, which she would demand to face alone even if she had backup. Although many respected her skill, and were grateful for the good she did, she had a reputation for being unlikable due to her standoffish personality, which came from her deep hatred for the world that she was essentially forcing herself to defend. After 15 or so years of this routine, gradually gaining more power and skill while crossing a good number of dragons off of her list, she eventually takes part in a quest which would eventually snowball into a series of events that would not only turn the lives of her and her soon to be permanent party on their heads forever, but would shake an entire multiverse to its core.
While I didn't cover every single detail, that's the summary of her backstory. The rest of the party have (or will eventually have) roughly similar depth to their own backstories, since in truth they're all nearly equally important to the story, but since this is the one that the story begins with while the rest are revealed along the way, she's the closest I have to a "Main" Main Character. As far as I can tell, this does a decent job avoiding mistakes 4, 7, 8, and 9. Furthermore, mistakes 1 and 6 are also covered because one of the central themes of the story which applies to many major characters is finding the good in people despite their mistakes or choices, which is also something I try to strive for when I can help it. Not everyone can (or deserves to) be redeemed, but it's at least worth asking the question before writing them off completely, just in case.
As for mistake #2, there are definitely some difficult choices that she has to make along the way, and she doesn't always pick the answer that the majority might consider to be better. Jumping ahead to Chapter 8, she's put in a position during a big fight where she sees that two of her friends are about to die and there's no time to save both of them. One of them was kidnapped by the minions of that chapter's villain, and is about to be sacrificed to power up the big bad, meanwhile the other one is the team archer who's about to be stabbed in the back while on the other side of the room, too far away for anyone else to assist. The MC can save one with an icy projectile from her magic sword, but not the other, and she has a split second to decide. Despite the risk of the ritual making the villain stronger, she chooses to save the archer because she's started to view him like a younger brother, and feels a sense of personal responsibility to protect him. To make matters worse, the two she has to choose between have fallen in love with each other, meaning that they would be unhappy to survive if they knew it was at the expense of the other. Afterward, she realizes that nobody saw what she did, meaning that if she wanted, she could say nothing avoid any responsibility, but when the thought of hiding it makes her feel genuine guilt for what might be the first time in her life, she decides to tell the others, while still making it clear that she doesn't regret her choice. Ultimately, despite so often striving to do the "right" thing (even if it's often for the wrong reason), she's still willing to be "selfish" by saving someone she's a bit more attached to, even if the alternative might result in a bigger problem.
And finally, for mistake #10, my MC is definitely essential to resolving the climax. You could maybe argue that the day could potentially be saved if one of the many other heroes had been absent, but not the MC. Furthermore, she's necessary in a way that only matters BECAUSE of all the growth she went through along the way, whereas if she had the same strength OR mindset that she started with, it would be impossible to win. The final boss is such a massive threat, that the only thing strong enough to finish it off is the MC's sword being powered by the intense desire to protect those who matter to her, a desire which only exists once she finally acknowledges and accepts that she's able to care about others again.
That just leaves mistakes 3 and 5, although for the latter I suppose her long-lasting general hatred of pretty much everyone might count for how she views people, but not so much environments. And for #3, the villains mostly just see her as one member of the group who keeps getting in their way, so thinking about how they view her (and the rest of the party) is definitely something I can flesh out to be more interesting. All in all, this was a good watch, very helpful.
Love her motivation dude, that's the kind of spiteful stuff I can relate to. Makes them feel more real.
Another great video Jed!
Thanks!
Incredible stuff Jed. Definitely helping my book The Secret of the Magi =)
Good advices !
The first point you make about writting what you felt, is what I am useing to write my sci-fi piece. :) I recently went to France, to handle final affairs of a family member not vacation, and am useing the experience to help write for my character. I am not a strong French speaker, yet, so I used that to write for the Aliens VS. MC. :) (I really miss my friends there.)
How convenient for this video to show up in my recommended as I seriously considered writing a comedy fantasy book
Thank you for the points about:
- writing from the villains perspective
- contrasting personality traits to create a dimension
i just paused and did the 10 worst thing list, but then i retooled it a little and thought about what concerns occupies their mind. i found that even more useful in my case, i guess, maybe it's because i had a little trouble defining the worst things, like if it'd be their fears or things they don't even know may befall them
Woooo, another Jed Herne video!
I have been watching your series and may actually sign up to your course. I have a book I am working on, though I am reworking some things, realizing that extending the prologue to several chapters did add impact to the character bonds before everything went down, but broke the flow, so I am keeping the chapters aside, but they will be called back on throughout in memories. The story is called A Tale of Two Brothers and follows brothers torn apart by golden child abuse and how it ended up breaking both of them, leading to terrible pain on both sides, but also follows their eventual reunion and reconciliation so they can return and face the real villain of their story.
This was honestly really eye opening, and while I don't really fall into ALL of these mistakes, there's definitely a few I noticed I've made somewhat consistently (or in the case of introductions, actively struggled with) while working on my pet project of a novel for the past... way too many years on and off... Honestly I've kind of run into an odd situation where the main character isn't even the one I start off the story introducing as the 'main character', even though most of the first major arc of the story revolves around their perspective, but is actually a character introduced later on, who is built up and developed through varying character perspectives and interactions with and about her. It was entirely unintentional, but it also kind of seems to work in a strange way. Anyway my rambling aside, as a first time viewer, looking forward to more content and well worth the sub.
Hello, Jed! Awesome video, the edititing quality is top notch as always.
I would like to know your thoughts on "The Story Grid" as a method for writing a story, if you are familiar with it.
Also, your videos had me pick up on old ideas I had, and I'm currently about halfway done with my begening hook thanks to your insights!
Cheers!
Just looking at the titles of the sections on your video's timeline, I got an epiphany to fix a weak portion of a novel I'm writing!
This is one of the most useful writing videos ive ever watched.
This video made my methodological plotter self have a breakthrough in how I think about one of my characters' character arcs! Ty
Breakdown:
What is the worse thing that could happen to her?
--> 1. Losing her affiliation...wait, that's a miniature version of her first character arc lol
--> 2. Being incompetant...wait a minute, that's her fear that drives her dueing her second character arc?? (flat)
--> Wait, that second one kinda fits with her enneagram (3w2&4)... WAIT THE FIRST ONE AS WELL. Wait a minute...
-->
4: fear of loss of identity - she is forced to change affiliation (character arc 1)
3: fear of incompetance - she spends the whole book trying to prove herself (character arc 2)
2: self-worth too dependant on helping others - she spends the entire book being way too sacrificial without accepting help and it starts really affecting her (character arc 3)
HER CHARACTER ARCS ARE LITERALLY HER ENNEAGRAM TYPE I'M DYING AHAHAHA
That's incredible!
When I was in high school, I got into creative writing, and actually started the beginnings of a book, maybe even a book series, it was a few years ago, so I don't remember the small details, but the premise was about a boy who, while not being evil, was not necessarily good either, a boy who's siblings couldn't care less for him, and a father that just didn't have time for hi m, so, when he found a chance to have more in life, he took it, he was selfich, yet selfless at the same time, helping people that he wasn't obliged to help, but choosing those he was close to over the greater good. I was going to add two other main branches of the story, about the "villain" that isn't completely evil but a bit misunderstood as well, he grew from a boy that had nothing, to an immensely ambitious and ruthless man that wanted only the best for those that followed him, and the "hero" who uses his high status to get his way, often putting himself above anyone, even his closest friends. It was going to be a story about the building of the characters personalities, and then growing and changing with the world around them, and the influence they have on others, the stories would have eventually intertwined, tying their stories together, as well as the consequences of the choices and actions they made along the way, creating one big web where the line between good and evil is blurred, and only their actions, inactions, and subsequent consequences would define what they truly are, whether they know it or not. The reason I stopped writing it, was because I didn't have the time, so I think maybe, once I do have more time, I'll get back into it all.
Due to me writing a story based off a D&D campaign I was in, it's great to know this.
Thank you for your video. I can really see you are a certified author on Fiction books. I trust your advise.
I'm not sold on your definition of dimensions. I don't think it needs to be two conflicting traits. It can be the same trait with multiple ways of expression. Loyalty to a partner looks different than loyalty to an idea, a cause, a country. The diversity and mediation of that single value can make someone very complex
Yeah and how he described it makes the impression you have to have a ton rather than one conflict really developed.
I've been thinking about writing my own book for a while now and 4 months ago I broke ground on it, I've been having trouble setting scenes and writing my main character around it and this video gave me so much insight into why I'm having the issue. Thank you. Have u made a video about word count?
A couple things here I wanted to comment on. Overall, I agree with much of your points. However, after reading some of the comments, there were some points I wanted to - not necessarily counter, but clarify or refine.
Firstly, the contradiction study: I read some people saying that people who point out contradictions as bad are inherently wrong, especially if those contradictions are intentional. That _can_ ne the case, but it's often a valid criticism as well. Just because something is intentional, doesn't mean it's not a problem. As Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw once said, "intentionally annoying is still annoying". I've never done a formal contradiction study, but that's just intuitively how I develop characters. I give them some core traits and beliefs, then think of some fun contradictions to those traits or beliefs that I feel will flesh them out more. The key is though that these contradictions have to build on their depth, not make them nonsensical.
There is an exception to every rule, but save for very specific cases that most novice writers will find themselves in, contradictions shouldn't be diametrically opposed or mutually exclusive (characters successfully pulling this off are not easy to write at all). As an example, you'd struggle to make a character feel coherent who is both religious and atheistic in most settings. It's more than likely going to lead to them having nonsensical motivation when they jump between their faith and total rationality when making decisions, and would require a huge amount of work to reconcile. You can, however, make a character both creative and uncreative. Maybe they are passionate and driven by a desire to create, living their life through a lens of imagination and loving to create works of art. But perhaps this is in contrast to the fact that they might be too lacking in genuine creativity to make their works feel unique or distinctive; instead being criticized as derivative of better artists. This single character point could be a whole plot and journey to growth if you co choose, having them possibly come to terms with this and find satisfaction in refining others' projects, or instead finding what it is that they're missing and finally breaking through that impediment to create a true masterpiece.
Secondly, the idea that Jed puts forth that plot and character are necessarily intertwined, and one cannot exist without the other. I can't say if he intended for this to seem so absolute, but I'll treat it as such for the sake of breaking it down a bit. I believe you can absolutely have a great character sans plot. Backstory and "what they do" are solid ways to link them to a setting, but you can also have a character who is defined by their principles, role, or beliefs that would fit into many settings or time periods. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I'll use one of my own. I've had a character that I've written into stories, played in tabletop games, and used in all sorts of cooperative storytelling contexts and have consistently, over many years, been told that they feel like a fully fleshed out, real person. They've been in every setting imaginable, from mundane to fantastical, yet because I gave them consistent beliefs, traits, principles, and themes, I can generally slot in a setting-appropriate interpretation and develop a story from there. In fact, that's half the fun, imo! "Who would this character be in this world? How would their beliefs and principles manifest in this time period? Would they be a hero or a villain given their stances in this setting?" The plot then flows from that, with the character already solidly defined. This is where it's useful to be able to know your character well enough to be able to think as they would.
Granted, all that said, I do agree with Jed's advice on this if the simply point being made is that it's easiest to write a better story if you treat character and plot as the same thing.
One way I understand the dimensions of a character is through a scale of measurement. This is usually fully exposed when the story is finished and the reader has all the information the writer intended to deliver, so that some means of measuring a character can be hidden at first (like in a mystery or drama or a complicated political thriller, etc.) but eventually the reality of that character is revealed.
A zero-dimensional character is a point, or period. They are X, only X, and will forever be X, and X is all they ever were or ever will be. This character is little better than a rock, or similarly solid object that doesn't change throughout the course of your story. Sometimes that's a really cool idea: after all, humans are humans, they will always be humans, they were always humans, so there is no escaping a human character's humanity. In that regard, no matter how else you "measure" such a character, they will always be whatever quality you as the writer want them to be. Then again, if a character never struggles, never changes, or never grows, and if there is no way to measure that growth, then the character will always be one thing and one thing only, and whatever else they could be is rendered moot. That is often a very, very bad thing, as the kinds of stories most people like are ones where characters grow, change and develop. So use this idea of a "zero dimension" character only partially at best via a high-level concept that your characters struggle to understand (via Atlas Shrugged, for example), and be very very careful with it!
A one-dimensional character is a line. On one end is one extreme, and on the other end is another extreme, and the character is somewhere between the two extremes. As a result, a one-dimensional character is simple and easy to define from the outside; there is only one metric by which their character is determined, and all it takes to change the character is to change that metric. This is where folks say, "The hero can be a villain, because all it takes is X action from the hero for them to change" or "The hero is the hero because they believe Y belief, and that's all they need to be a hero." Such reductions down to only one metric of understanding a character, only one quality that determines "protagonist" from "antagonist" from "background character", is shallow writing and easily seen and understood. This is the kind of character that feels disingenuous. Why? Because we try to appear as one-dimensional in our social lives and interactions with other human beings, but there are far more things going on under that socially acceptable surface. A character who is legitimately ONLY determined by where they are on ONLY one scale of measurement does not jive with our shared experience of, well, reality. Then again, a character that tries to be seen as one-dimensional, but it is obvious that something more is going on with them, is a very common but compelling character concept. The hero may have a mother complex due to the rigors of being the hero everyone relies on (perhaps their mother pushes them too far to be that socially acceptable image of the "hero"), the villain may have deep-seated trauma from their childhood that they have forgotten that compels their villainry, so on and so forth.
A two-dimensional character is a flat surface. Not only can they be measured by one line, they can ALSO be measured by another line. On one line, the hero may be a hero, but on the other line they are very much a villain. This two-dimensional aspect deepens our understanding of the character because it makes our analysis of their character more complex. Now, there are variations between "good" and "evil" depending on what standard your character is being judged by the others in the story, and this also allows you as the writer to take advantage of different perspectives. Peasants would view knights and lords and nobles very differently than merchants or foreign ambassadors or visiting nobility would. Which scale you use to measure your character, coupled with whatever scale your character uses to judge the world around them, can create rich tapestries of character development and storytelling.
A three-plus-dimensional character simply adds more lines of measurement to their character. If things are too complicated, some intended scales of measurement can get lost in translation to the reader. OR, the reader may choose to apply a scale of measurement completely different from the scale the writer intended. This is why some people like Game of Thrones while others do not like it; they judge the characters in the book by the scales of measurement they have in their own world, and they bring those insights, experiences and biases to the work in question. The more metrics you use to judge your characters, and being aware of how other characters would judge your other characters, is key to mastering the art of storytelling.
That's about all I have on the subject, hope it was an interesting read!
I agree brother
oh i missed watching these kinds of videos. it was enjoyable when i could be arsed to even try write anything
I would define a plot driven story as a story where the main character changes very little or not at all over the course of the story, but the story instead exemplifies the characters unique traits and how they effect the world
Character driven stories put most of there emphasis on how the characters change as they overcome the challenges they face.
Good examples of plot driven stories include no game no life or one punch man.
Good examples of story driven include your name or land of the lusterous.
Obviously most stories exist on a spectrum but thats how i would define it.
...I just realized I always have three main characters in my stories... or at least three main driving forces. Like, currently I have a grand witch travelling the realm in search of a magic spell/curse left by her predecessor in order to break it (the one to solve the conflict), the cursed one (the conflict), and the character that stumbles upon the cursed one(the reader).
I have been trying to come up with the storyline for my first fantasy novel that i seem to already have stumbled into accomplishing the first goal you have set here. In the series the two main characters are tasked by the gods to rekindle the traditional beliefs of the worlds’ religions into the new empire that has formed after 900 years since the deities had contacted humanity. This puts them in a very tough position as they find themself in a world foreign to their morals in which they must decide on whether they choose to stick with their morals and risk this new empire discovering them and hunting them down or do they choose to abide by the morals of this new empire at the potential cost of falling into this new corrupted way of life.
@jed_herne on the point of plot vs character driven while i agree with your advice i feel maybe it would be better to contextualise them as intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation however the best stories imo have a mix of both so your overall point stands
Something I started doing with my last two writing projects: writing AS the characters. First, I decided to kill my old robotic narration habits by writing in first person "as" a character with very poetic, romantic ways of regarding the world around her. Second, I took that into third person, still writing "as" the characters instead of "about" them. My latest project combines these approaches, using first person narration for intimacy and third person for a sense of silence (focusing on a mute or isolated character) or depersonalization (such as when the focal character is in a dissociative state).
My current project also speaks primarily in present tense in order to permit for contrasting past and future perspectives to create a sense of reminiscence or flashback, immediacy, etc.
I have making draft after draft for the past 20 years
I have finaly created something worth reading, cause I nailed every point in your video ... (I was curious to see if I did)
I needed this▪️as a new author I'm always looking for ways to clean up my manuscript and this video is a god send thanks man▪️last thing if my book gets famous I'll make sure to give you a shout out