7 Antagonist Mistakes New Fantasy Writers Make
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- Avoid these mistakes to write better antagonists.
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⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction
00:40 - Mistake 1
07:17 - Mistake 2
09:16 - Mistake 3
11:16 - Mistake 4
13:57 - Mistake 5
15:30 - Mistake 6
17:16 - Mistake 7
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Hi! My name's Jed. I'm a fantasy author with three published novels and a bestselling video game. On this channel, I draw from my 10+ years of writing experience to help you become a better writer. - Jak na to + styl
I actually have a saying that goes along with that outline point: "writing is kind of like parkour. If you know where you want to land, it's a lot easier to plan your route."
damn
That's actually a perfect quote
That is similar to habit 2 in The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. Habit 2 is, "Begin with the end in mind."
@@elliottdavid7405that's what I thought when I saw this
Yeah? My saying is if you have a deep embodied understanding of your premise, your characters and the thing that powers your voice as it applies to this story - that will take you to whatever the landing is going to be, and what is required is not planning a route but cultivating an balanced attitude of exploration, of listening and intuitive decisionmaking, that’s been run through the filter of your own artistic sensibility, accumulated life experience, and instinct for story and more importantly through whatever, hopefully deep yearning or impulse in you that drives the emerging insight. The act of creative writing is a sensual moment in time drawing many complexities together guided by the necessity of voice and the emerging wisdom that voice is going to simultaneously create and unveil. The moment of writing is tactical - not strategic. Art is specific and sensual. Tactics are modes of engagement what you deploy in the moment in conversation with the circumstances of the moment. That dialogue facilitates flow, which facilitates creativity. Strategy however tends to be general and impersonal and summarising. Plot is just a pattern. It is the story spine but not the story essence. Voice and true storytelling will produce it in an organic way, as a byproduct of the main process. Storytelling on this view is discovery informed and guided more or less unconsciousless by processes in the writer and embodied craft - not deliberate contrivance. Living story does not emerge from the places in your brain that constructs blueprints. Internalise all that as craft and forget about it in the moment of creation. The “landing” is your moment of attaining the elixir. If you know the where and the why and the how of it from the start, chances are you are not doing anything new or surprising to you or to other people. Writing is creating knowledge. It’s just like science that way. If you know the answer before the research project it’s either because that research has already been done by numerous other people and so is irrelevant or it’s simply a reflection of your own initial biases. Creative writing is sensing that there is some emerging landing, and committing the jump in flow so you understand the landing IN THE PROCESS OF DOING IT and NOT in a process of preconceiving it and debating every detail in advance. How to prepare for that jump: You live, you research, you internalise craft and technique to where you don’t think of it, develop and listen for voice and necessity, you practice managing yourself in the moment of doing it, your aiming device is an embodied feeling and intuition, not a map of the area where x marks the spot.
Lord of the Rings is actually really weird in many ways if you think about it. The main antagonist isn't even in the book as a character (Sauron). He just "sits" there on top of the tower and order things about and look. While the Ring, an object, is a much more active force around the main characters. It's pretty unusual and weird. But good though. :)
Is Sauron not one with the ring? Meaning he's literally everywhere all at once?
@@Darth_Bateman Kind of. The ring has a part of Sauron's power, and he uses it to control the other ring bearers.
But the ring has some sort of will on its own.
@@Darth_Bateman yeah no that's not how it works. He put his power into it but he can't sense where it is
unless you put it on. sauron in the films is portrayed as the flaming eye itself but book sauron isn't. In the book it's said he has a body specifically a "hand that looms over the world." For obvious reasons this
Is too vague for a visual medium so
They changed him to big flaming eye on top of tower.
That is unless you take the hobbit films in account where the eye kinda morphed into his body ? I dunno everything with sauron can get very confusing.
@@Darth_BatemanKind of, it is more so the spirit of Sauron, it doesn't have his personality or wish to do good.
Also worth noting, Sauron fell in the same way the ring corrupts people, he wanted to do good, to make the world more efficient and peaceful, but wasn't willing to accept the risk of failure, so he sided with Morgoth so he could gain more power.
Boromir isn't really a false ally, his character arc just led him from protagonist to pseudo antagonist, because while he attacked Frodo he died for his allies
I would list Boromir as an anti-hero and Scarlett O'Hara as anti-heroine. Selfish motivations for what they imagine are morally good ends.
I wouldnt say that Boromir is either any villian. He was just happy to be part of the fellowship of the ring, but he had the weakest resistance on getting the ring to himself, so he was fighting internally in wanting to take the ring from the makn protoganist. It wasent, because he was bad guy, but because he could not resist his will to take the ring for himself, like the race of men, expect Aragorn cant, because they are attracted to power. Then Boromir dies heroic death fighting, that is propably good thing, when he has so strong will to take the ring for himself.
@@bookwormaddict3933
How did Boromir think his selfish motivations are morally good ends. Some people just cant resist their lust or want to take power, while they are part of the good guys, so that makes them take immoral action and technically become the bad guy by wanting to take the ring from the main protoganist, because he cannot resist his lust for the ring. Didnt Boromir in his death still say he was sorry about wanting to take the ring from Frodo and that he could not control his lust, that made him look like bad guy, when he actually was good guy excited to kill orcs with rest of the fellowship of the ring.
@@jout738 "How did Boromir think his selfish motivations are morally good ends."
I don't remember if he said this in the movie, but Boromir wanted to use the ring's power to defend Gondor against Mordor. He didn't want that power for himself, but to lead his people.
@@jout738 He didn't desire power, he just believed there was no hope in destroying the ring and believed the only way his nation and people would survive was by using the weapon of the enemy against them. Films don't quite portray it as well, but in the book he wasn't even a real member of the fellowship. His plan was just to tag along until they made it to the Gondor border from where he'd go back home. All of this of course making him really, really weak to the call of the ring and after spending too much time with it, he was eventually overcome by its manipulative powers and tried to seize it for just a short moment before immediately realising his mistake and regretting it for what little was left of his life. If he was ever an antagonist, it was for maybe 5 minutes. If anything, the ring was the antagonist and Boromir simply a victim of it.
This made me realize most mooks are basically forces of nature, they're more of a light drizzle than a storm though
What is a mook?
@@eow4317 Common term referring to very minor and weak antagonists who serve a bigger one, aka minions.
My main issue with mistake 6 is that sometimes you just want a simple villain with simple goals, like big jack horner or dr eggman. These guys have the simple goals of get power and in the case of eggman make a wonderland of his own vision. These characters are well loved despite their simple goals, and its because of these simple goals that they work as characters, ones that are comedic yet still a force to be respected. My issue with 7 is that an antagonist can't always be opposite to their protagonist, particularly when you have multiple characters in a traveling party, because the smart guy going against someone who outdoes them with their tech is not gonna bother the big smash guy too much, so that's often hard to balance (you can also do unique things with unbalanced rivals, like big smash guy against a similarly stong guy with much higher intelligence, an outbalanced situation which requires smart thinking from big smash guy to outdo the smart guy with tech and muscles
That is fare reason.
That’s an excellent point and I think this comes down to the difference between an antagonist and a villain. Because they’re not the same thing.
The antagonist is a force that acts contrarily to the protagonist. Whereas the villain is a character that opposes the hero.
So in some cases you can have a story where the main antagonist is not the villain.
You brought up Jack Horner and he’s a great example of this. While being the main villain of the story, death is the primary antagonist for Puss in Boots (our protagonist)
What I feel like is that there are some villains to just serve as surface-level villains while some other villains are more complex and interesting.
Doctor Doom is a good antagonist for the Fantastic Four because with his personal genius, technology, and magic, he is almost a match for any of them in the area that they specialize in.
it really depends on where you want your focus to land
jack horner works well because hes sharing the stage with like 4-5 other character arcs which are all antagonists with puss, jack being simple not lets other characters breathe, but also lets him shine *as* a simple character because the narrative foils already exist. He can be *pure* theatrics without losing anything
"Without a strong antagonist your story is going to be boring"-- this is only true if your story is about a character overcome a particular opponent. Stories where the protagonist's struggles are either against themselves (disease, curse, etc.) or against environmental threats don't actually need a strong antagonist to tell a compelling story. In fact, some character journeys are not really conducive to having one big bad that they have some deep-seeded personal animosity against and they are the underdog against because the character might be constantly traveling and there is no time to build up such a relationship so it would feel awfully shoe-horned in. You are limiting the kinds of stories you can write by insisting that the struggles of the main character have to be embodied in a particular antagonist.
Actually the statement holds. An Antagonist does not need to be a villain or even a character. The antogonist is simply the opposing force that creates conflict for the protagonist. In some stories it could be something like teenage angst. So yes you do need a strong antagonist, just not necessarily a strong villain.
honestly. you need a strong *conflict* (and the conflict only needs to be strong enough to challenge the mc)
Yep. I like to write short war stories with some sort of fantasy element. I've noticed that none of them have an antagonist. The closest thing to an antagonist may be an anonymous enemy soldier that they are forced to kill.
There's no evil overlord, general, dictator, evil officer or monarch to defeat. It's all about the horrors of war, the "band of brothers" (and "sisters" in some of them), and how soldiers can give their lives for whatever reason other than "honor and fatherland".
Also lots of cool action because I don't want to be depressing and boring.
I like to read fantasy novels about a heroic protagonist overcoming a personal flaw or illness...
Read the title of the video, it is talking about fantasy novels - not all novels
I was thinking this but you put it in better words than i could@@robertdrash1105
Magneto actually fits into both Anti-Villain and Shapeshifter categories. The movies constantly had him become a friend to the heroes then turn on them.
Magneto does that quite often anyways
I love the idea of an antagonist that basically has a copy of the Evil Overlord List, or a fictional equivalent, that they constantly consult.
You can do a lot of interesting things with that, just be sure not to be cynically deconstruct all the fun out of a potential story, if the story is meant to be fun. Don't use _or_ subvert tropes blindly, but purposefully. Sometimes the best stories are the ones that _do_ feature well-worn tropes, but remember to give them compelling reasons for them to exist in _that_ particular story.
I did something like that using Dracula. Where it was less they were consulting a list and more learning from their mistakes
@@michaelestrada2772 I think you've either misread the comment, or else you're replying to the wrong comment
This was about the villain consulting a book or a list of advice. It's not about the hero consulting with the villain
@@douglaswolfen7820 thanks
You should try PGTE (Pratical Guide to Evil) then, its a lovely deconstruction of storytelling tropes with an Anti-Villain protagonist.
Basically a huge part of the "magic system" of the setting is that it rationalizes storytelling tropes into it, and if the characters can figure out the greater "narrative" that is developing (which is enforced by some conceptual gods of good and evil) they can manipulate it to get literal plot armor.
The MC has basically every heroic trait, personality and backstory you'd expect, but the "Villains" got scarily competent at stamping "Heroes" out before they become problems (like they're following the evil overlord's list), so she decides to join them because while going the usual heroic route would kinda work out in the end, it would cost far far too for her people, its better to try to sabotage the Villains from the inside.
But if you decide to play for the other team, well... you dont get to keep the heroic plot armor or moral high ground.
Its a great story
If Voldemort counts as a force of nature, then my primary antagonist also counts as a force of nature. And an ally being replaced by an imposter would be a "false ally" archetype
I would replace Voldemort with death from puss in boots
Imho what can be fabtastic if done well is the rival/ third power. You have protag, antag and someone whose goals are at odds with BOTH. They can be either secret or in the open, or hilariously hidden in plain sight. The goal will be obviously not to have a copout ending where with no foreshadowing the third power snatches the mcguffin at the end or kills the antagonist.
Referring back to David and Goliath; the sling was once the most devastating ranged weapon on the planet, being able to hurl a stone at speed would be a KO even with helmets in some cases, so who really is the underdog, the young boy with the deadly weapon, or his massive target.
The story works well as a way to demonstrate a hidden underdog, or a perception of an underdog, as in reality, it's Goliath who was actually disproportionately armed in that fight
Just so. Even today, a simple sling remains an effective and deadly weapon. It's not as useful in combat as a firearm, but its simplicity and the availability of munition are advantages that modern weapons do not have. Furthermore, despite the many major advances in weaponry, infantry protection is still not capable of stopping a fist-sized rock moving at over a hundred forty kilometres per hour.
Its a slingshot beo
@@ussinussinongawd516 A slingshot is a different weapon. David used a sword and a sling, not a slingshot.
@@ussinussinongawd516slingshots can still kill small animals, but also you're wrong
Pretty sure he also took out bears and lions, and his skills were all self taught. Combine that with his unshakeable will via his faith, it was Goliath that honestly had the disadvantage.
Hey Typhoon! I've come to bargain!
Heh, Codex Alera 101 😂
Voldermort, Snape are also dark reflection of Harry, they were all kids who found home at Hogwart but their stories turned out completely different from each other due to the love and suppport from other people arround them along their journey
Snape is the true hero of the Harry Potter series. His redemption comes at the end. Harry was just a vehicle to get him there.
i was planning to do a mix of dark mirror, the antivillain, and the shapeshifter
This character will be very close to the mc, and have a similar goal. And instead of introducing this character as the main antagonist upfront, instead i planned to make it so this person has tried every mean and method to bring his goal humanely before he falls.
The reason for his fall is the death of multiple of his comrades which drive him to the bring and desperate realization: there is only true equality in death.
Eventually driving the story and becoming the main antagonist. This character tries his new immoral ways to bring about equality: Death to all or, make them band together despite their differences to face a common enemy.
He then flip flops from being an ally to enemy. from spectator to actor.
I know its a lot but its way more simple when explained like this
That sounds really cool!
👏🏻👏🏻
love it ❤
In regards to the "Dark Mirror" villain, I noticed that there is something of a "Dark Mirror" in all villains. I'll explain:
They can be a "mirror" in one of two ways. One: they reflect the hero by having certain similarities to the hero. As explained in the video, this is to illustrate what the hero would be like if they went down the dark path. Two: they are the exact opposite of the hero. When you raise your right hand, your reflection raises what should be his left hand. Everything in your mirror image is flipped; it's the exact opposite.
I had noticed this was a common trait of comic book villains after watching a documentary called "Necessary Evil: the Villains of DC Comics." For example: Superman enemies General Zod and Lex Luthor. Zod is an example of a villain who reflects the hero. Both are from Krypton and have similar powers, but Zod is a twisted version of Superman. Lex Luthor, meanwhile is an example of the villain being the exact opposite of the hero (a common trait for arch-villains, as pointed out by Mr. Glass in "Unbreakable"). Superman possesses incredible powers (flight, strength, speed, heat vision, etc.), and he defends those who cannot defend themselves. Luthor, on the other hand, is a mortal man who relies on his intellect, rather than superpowers, to fight his enemies, and his actions are self-serving.
I then noticed that this is common outside of comic books, as well. Darth Vader from "Star Wars" and Rene Belloq from "Indiana Jones" are examples of villains who reflect certain characteristics of the hero. Meanwhile, "Alaadin" provides us with an example of the villain being the exact opposite of the protagonist (Alaadin is a street urchin with a heart of gold, while Jafar is a person with a very high social standing who is obsessed with gaining as much power as possible). Regardless of how you define a "mirror image", there is something of it in all villains, and, as pointed out in the video, this helps bring out the virtues and the character growth of the protagonist.
@@Blunderman-rl1hcEXCELLENT
another example of "the shapeshifter" is Hondo Onaka from Star Wars the clone wars.
Omg that’s exactly what iv’e been thinking too! Also an example of an anti hero is so gerrera
Probably one of the most entertaining characters on the show.
Is Hisoka from HxH also shape shifter
When I heard False Ally I immediately thought of Luke Castallen from percy jackson
Ethan too
Are you reading my mind? I've just started to make the "mood wall" of one of my antagonists today. I don't know how familiar you are with it, it's basically about that I collect pictures from the internet that are connected to the character I'm developing and then I put them in a Word document. It helps me to feel the vibes the character gives off, to keep track of what interests them and if I haven't figured out their name yet, it makes it easier to choose one that fits their personality. Your timing is perfect, I have her pretty much figured out but help is always welcome.
An antagonist I've been working on begins as a mentor figure to the MC after bonding over the discrimination that comes with their crystal cores (their source of mana) compared to the versions that are more common among the populace.
The MC eventually discovers that their entire friendship was a facade, as all the antagonist desires is to harvest their rare crystal core for his schemes. The reason for the roundabout approach is due the nature of their crystal cores, as the elemental nature of the MC's core is the antithesis of the Antagonist's own core.
The antagonist is later revealed to be attempting to break the Seals on the Calamities, ancient dragons that embody the Primal forces of the world. As an avatar of another ancient dragon, the antagonist plans to conquer and dominate the other dragons for revenge of long overdue transgressions.
Oooh, a twist villain, great! I'm working on one as well, although she's not as powerful as yours. She's a queen who is known for her generous nature, but actually she's narcissistic, and she only gives money to the poor because she loves when people are cheering for her. She's very clever and she was also quite pretty in her younger years, but her cruelty, vanity and selfishness ruins the picture. This is only getting worse, because she's now in her 50s, meaning that she's getting older and older, which she can't accept. She buys herself expensive clothes, jewelry, anything to make her look desirable, so much that it causes an economy crisis in her country. Still, this rather makes her appear ridiculous, which only frustrates her, ruining the situation even more. She has a 25 years old husband (married due to political reasons), who is a genius engineer, but thanks to her constantly criticising, gaslighting and emasculating him he is very insecure. His character arc is about how he realises with the help of the MC that this isn't okay, gains confidence in himself, breaks free, and later he'll be the love interest for the MC.
This sort of reminds me of the villain in Tales of the Abyss.
One note though: why befriend him for so long? Why not just be 'a thief in the night' and take it right away? I think it's important to make sure there isn't a plothole there. Just a tip! :) and maybe you've already worked it out, I haven't read your work ofcourse, haha.
@@jadeayla7548
In the setting, crystal cores first begin as cloudy and opaque, but when a practitioner of magic refines themselves through their studies and conquer tribulation do their crystals adopt a more desirable precious gem-like quality.
The deeper hue and transparency directly translate to the purity and power of the core.
The false friendship is for the sole purpose to cultivate the best quality possible for the antagonist's purposes.
Your bad guy is too evil!!! Make him more human!!! Make him sad that he betrayed his friend but too driven to stop himself from dragon revenge!!!
I'm working on a false ally on a personal revenge arc. My antagonist seems like an underdog, but that's because they're operating under false colors, hiding important abilities and facts. The MCs think they're up against a Sauron or maybe a Saruman, but in fact, it's this small-seeming person who has been around the edges of the main story all along.
Writing under this philosophy is super harmfull for your story, the labels come after, now you have to focus in creating characters that portray your themes well.
That sounds cool. Good luck!
@@ricky.t.1658 I've already created the characters. I'm just describing the character who best fit the plot. I'm writing a kind of fantasy detective story. So I started with the "crime." Working out from that, my antagonist becomes the one with the means, motive and opportunity to have done it.
@@celeben9463 Thank you!
@@jenfries6417 then that’s alright, are you publishing it?
Haha, the #40 is something every manga/anime needs to learn. Stop "powering up" after the other guy beats you down. Hit them hard and move on. lol. Makes for more dangerous villains that way. And more realistic. (One punch man comes to mind, though he's not a villain).
A lot of that is probably Dragon Ball’s influence. In Dragon Ball it makes sense because most of the characters enjoy a tough fight more than they enjoy winning, ie they intentionally hold back because they believe if they go all out the fight will be over too quickly. One Punch Man actually explores this because the main character’s motivation is actually to find an exciting fight in a world where he one hit kills everything without even trying. It can also work if there’s some sort of drawback for the character, like maybe using the super weapon will guarantee victory but it has limited ammo or making replacement ammo is a huge pain in the butt. Beyond that it’s just about padding to keep the battle exciting for as long as possible. It can also make sense from the antagonist’s point of view if their normal opponents are so weak they don’t need the powered up form (or are likely to break the rule against attacking your opponent while they’re powering up) there’s no point in taking the time to power up.
somtimes i thought of this power up as a "desperation mode" the body goes in. We know Stories where ordinary People did some crazy things out of pure necessity for their own survival (or those they love) if you meant that kind of power up. And if you meant the kind of "i wont use my full power" thing, i think there are points making this valid as well. If they dont want to kill, feel confident as they are, it takes a toll etc. (and somehow it feels so "mean" that its more like something a villain would do, the other comment did a good job too)
Besides, sometimes tropes can be fun if your story allows it, or when there were enough stories where these tropes got subverted and you greet them as an old friend ;)
In Overly Cautious Hero, imho the protag kinda remains consistent insofar that his tactics always are to be as careful as possible and if needed to play dirty. Big spoilers:
He actually drags a world ending boss into another dimension to set things up for the boss to bust the canvas the goddess of war is painting, so that the two get pitted against one another. Protag also uses it to gauge the goddess of war's ace in the whole, which turns out to be the ultimate move the protag ends up planning to use as a nuclear option to defeat the big bad. The kicker is that all this time the protag, who may seem like a munchkin who's after ruthless efficiency and not after being some paragon of justice, that protag turns out to be a grieving father and husband who knows what the big bad is capable of and thus wants to absolutely and irrevocably destroy the big bad to prevent further death.
Crowley from Supernatural is another great example of a Shapeshifter character.
Every antagonist in that shows dark era (everything after Season 5) has shapeshifters because they forgot how to write actually evil villains.
My favourite villain is Silco from Arcane. Never played League but the shoe gripped me. He's unusually wholesome, evil, and he's so.. human. Its beautiful
Thanks so much for this, Jed! I'm only a sixteen year old girl with a powerful love for books and sees these kinds of issues in stories I've read or watched. I am currently writing my second draft of my first ever book, and it's always nice to have instructional videos like yours. I just I hope I can write something great like what you're describing.
Good luck!
I keep coming back to your videos. The information you present is always well-thought out and organized. Brilliant and intelligent and insightful. Thank you for taking the time to make these helpful videos, Jed! God bless.
So simple yet so important for a story - great acting by the way my man! 9:56
Spot on! I selfishly use your videos to analyze my work. Your (what I'm referring to as) Mentorship, is a great asset to me and my work. Thank you for that.
I'm working on a story. Your videos have been very helpful.
The T-1000 from Terminator 2 is a classic Force of Nature. This also highlights a compelling way of using the Force of Nature: have it be initially unstoppable. The protagonist cannot "win" against it at all, and must escape or "play around" it until they discover a way to decisively defeat it. This averts the staleness of the Force because it puts the emphasis back on how the protagonist reacts and grows in response.
Another fun thing to do with the Force of Nature is to present it initially as mindless or robotic, and later reveal that it is in fact intelligent and presumably malevolent. Readers/audiences naturally see a Force of Nature as animalistic or elemental, so this can be a very effective twist or shock. This can also be used to shift the balance back in favour of the antagonist after allowing the protagonist a brief victory, by showing that it has learned how to counter the protagonist's method of defeating it.
Your video opened my eyes to the fact that "shapeshifters" are my favorite type of villain. I am currently writing a book where I have a main anti-villain, who is secretly being guided by a shapeshifter villain, whose motivation is hidden from everyone else in the story. It's crazy to realize how complex my book has become
Cool to see these all laid out together. Gives me a lot to think about
I love that you used David and Goliath as an example!
Yeah actually the whole bible is an underdog story kinda. Israel are this weak and broken people who consistently mess up, but manage to somehow overcome empires, wars and constant adversity for centuries with the help of their God.
The banana part had me dying 😂😂😂😂😂😂 This guy never fails to make great thumbnails
This helped a lot, I was having trouble deciding how to implement this Father-Son antagonist duo that eventually fight and split apart, and your video helped a ton
Great work, Jed! These videos are so ingaging and as someone who sometimes struggles with destractability, I definitely appreciate it. You are always changing the focal length of the camera, or gesturing, or showing important information on a separate screen with a moving background. Top marks, I love it!
Thanks Heather! You can thank my editor Andrew for all his excellent work with that :)
I like a lot of your videos, but I feel this one was most helpful for my particular project. Thank you.
Wow this was really good. After watching this, it is clear to me that much of the trouble my story has given me over the past year is rooted in my antagonist. Now I gotta dig back in! Thank you Jed!
This video has helped me so damn much!! It's absolutely oozing with great tips that I've been setting my antagonists up against and I've already made them so much better thanks to this video. The fact that you wrote, filmed and edited this all for us to have for free is so amazing and helpful. Thank you
I was worried about my story, but now I am able to see my antagonists and villains a bit more clearly. I now see I have many antagonists and two clear villians and one force of nature that all of them support and nurture, so now I need to up my interactions and clashes with them and my protagonists. Great video!
Thanks again for an awesome video 🎉❤
My outline for the current project I'm having fun with: MC starts at new job and signs a contract for a year. Meets older unfriendly and grumpy co-worker. Realizes job is highly dangerous and very unfair. Can't leave. Task, survive until the contract runs out. Toss in monsters and deaths in between. See what happens. Make it fun sometimes. In the end, MC understands the other guy he thought badly of in the beginning. End. That's pretty much as far as my outlines go. XD They are generally a little more defined than this, but usually, I have a vague idea, that fleshes itself out as I write.
Outline of my story: MC unwillingly becomes one of the rulers of their world. Is unsure about this at first but becomes more accustomed to the idea with the help from parental figure and advisor. Parental figure dies with the suspect being a mysterious masked figure. MC looks for help from other rulers and tracks down masked figure. Masked figure is revealed to be another ruler and says not to be the killer and knows the true culperate.
MC goes to advisor and reveals he knows it was the advisor that killed his parental figure.
MC and advisor have a battle and advisor reveals he killed parental figure to have more influence over MC. there is a moment where MC tries to help advisor not die but advisor declines
Advisor dies.
MC finds a new home with other rulers. End.
That's the super oversimplified version.
As long as there’s some juicy internal conflict I’m sure it’ll turn out great! I’ve read stories where they get so stuck in survival-mode without a reason of why they want to survive or a goal beyond it that I fail to care about the main character haha :)
Outline of my story: mc lives alone in the woods, never interacting with anyone. He finds a mysterious bridge and crosses it, ending up in another forest which he begins to explore. He climbs a mountain to survey the land, and sees that the bridge has disappeared suddenly. The river underneath it is freezing and impossible to cross. He desperately searches for hours for something to save him , finally finding a small house which he enters and falls unconscious in. He wakes up with a fever, and meets the owner of the house, an old man who tells him that the MC is one of four races. He explains who the bridge was built by, and that the MC needs to go on a journey to find the person who built the bridge and get it restored so he can return to his land home.
That's only the first two chapters, but yeah, I think it's turning out well.
@@cox2060 ooh I like that premise.
@@cox2060 Sounds interesting. It has potential to be really original. Depends what you do with it, of course. Just like with all stories. :)
Excellent video Jed, love the points you make!
Thanks Jed. Your content is helping me put the pieces of my own fantasy world and story together. I’ve never written a book- boy is it hard to actually nail down a story that goes from beginning to end, let alone have it actually be any good. 😅
I’m using this to help me flesh out my villains for my homebrewed D&D campaign. Thanks for the advice.
Thx for this, it's gonna be useful for me very soon
Well explained jed.
This was a great breakdown. Very organized
Just watching this video made me realise some things about my current work in progress. Thank you, Jed! It helped a lot. :)
Jed, thank you so so much!! That video was really needed because I'm kind of struggling with my villain. I couldn't really place him and now I know what type he is :D Thanks!!
Sending creative vibes :)
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Instantly subscribed
Im making a game not writing a novel.
However, this info is extremely invaluable. I saw ur list of vids, I can just tell by presentation and topic its a gold mine. Awesome work bro ty
This video is very helpful for me. I'm currently writing a book and your channel was heavy inspiration and very helpful. My main antagonist is the Force of Nature, it's something called 'Aetherfall' and this video is very helpful!
Thanks! I feel assured I am on the right track for my current set of antagonists. Though I am getting plenty of knowledge for future and upcoming antagonists that I don't need to worry about right now, but I would like to start foreshadowing their presence. On another note, I feel some of the general rules are okay to bend with exceptions of how the story has them set up and tells the needed story with them.
Thank you for this advice, it genuinely helps a lot. I'm new to writing since I am a 3D animator, but I always had brilliant ideas that I wanted to bring to life, I'm self taught, but I understand mistakes and cliches from media, movies, book, games, etc all the time.
I'm always looking for sound advice and help in writing characters, at least I don't have to worry about getting an illustrator/animator!
At the moment, I'm writing a fantasy story with a load of challenges the character faces, however I want the overall villan who later in the story becomes the main antagonist to be a very special character.
I wrote fear as a villan, an unstoppable, unreasonable, unpredictable Lich ravaged by madness who absorbs the physical mass, memories, and skills of his victims.
I wanted him to look like a Chimera of wild animals with humanoid features. A bipedal rotting corpse who only speaks in the frightened whispers of his victims. He whispers so deafeningly loud people's ears bleed, and the very grass he walks is absorbed into his horrid frame.
A skull of a horse with horns of deer, moose, ox, dragons, and the like grafted utop. The upper body and arms of an ogre, the legs of a wolf, and the bony tail of a crocodile.
His archaic frame is impossibly large at 30 or so feet when he stands on two legs. The blue, necrotic skin barley clings to the countless bones that warp and morph under his skin.
He commands dead flesh, he does not raise armies, he is no necromancer. For example, later in the story, he will sever his own arm and grow another as the severed arm morphs into a centipede of ribs and spines. His new arm will be that of a mighty dragon, clad in metalic scales that he uses as a shield.
A long bony spike protrudes from his forearm as he greedily plunges it into the skull of his victim, killing them and absorbing their strength, he takes great sadistic pleasure in this.
As a Lich, he thrives off of fear, and purposefully torments his victims to savor the taste of fear.
Despite the cliche, his main goal is to gain enough souls to be worthy to make a single wish at the heart of the world.
All who hear his wish are mortified, shaking uncontrollably, tears stream violently down their cheeks, yet not a sound escapes them, only shudders and whimpers, their faces solemn and in shock, they heard something so foul and truly evil, they connot comprehend it.
The Lich, to me, is a very basic character, but it is his adaptability, primal and animalistic nature, yet unprecedented intelligence and sadistic strategey that makes him spontaneous and mysterious.
He never has the same voice twice, and his serpentine movements are replaced with predatory heaves and low growls, pus and foam always drips from his mouth and nose, and he does not roar.
He hunts with stealth, despite his large size, he is beyond silent, birds do not sing in his presence, insects do not chirp, wind ceases.
The silence is key for knowing he is nearby. His wish is never known, and his reasoning remains unspoken yet truly evil. His command over his flesh allows him to shapeshift and blend in as an animal or a person, but should anyone gaze into his eyes, they'll see more than one soul within, all in torment.
He is a very basic yet complex character, I definitely need help! Of course, I cant show you WHAT he looks like (its cool as shit, years of anatomy classes really paid off) nor can I give the more complex examples (because its a youtube comment, not a book)
I wish I knew ways of making him less shallow, or at least gaining feedback.
This is more of a basic description rather than an introduction, which I have not written in this comment, and I wont because its a comment.
Y'know, if you even read this far you basically read a chapter, honestly. So, assuming you're still reading, you are either interested, bored, have nothing else better to do, or have experience and want to help this fledgling writer.
I'll stop yapping, but please give me some advice if you have any, reader!
This is good advice for any type of villain not just fantasy
ooooo how interesting! my main antagonist fits more with the force of nature and dark mirror! epic!
This video is extremely helpful on revising characters, thank you.
I'd also add Crowley from Supernatural as the perfect Shapeshifter type Antagonist. His overall arch is him going from this spineless, oppurtunistic Devil, To selfless hero.
But during this arch, he is both a reliable ally due to his ideology as being truthful while making deals, but also a menacing villain because he still guns for himself.
Until he has absolutely everything he ever wanted, at which point he is redeemed by sacrificing himself for greater good.
Ty this is very helpful
your identity challenges part is very helpful to me. my antagonist is coming along great (anti-villain), but i’m having trouble making the hero keep up. he’s gonna have to choose between his past life (where he would sympathize with the villain) and his current situation and friends (who oppose the villain). add in a little bit of freedom vs security, and moral ambiguity and i think i’ve got a compelling situation. it’s easier for me to make characters when i’ve made the events that shape them
Your antagonist making a mistake because they are angry, or simply shortsighted, is a perfectly acceptable reason to have them make a mistake that's obvious to the audience because the audience is more omniscient than the antagonist.
Thank you for making this video. As someone who is making a JRPG, this was very insightful. I'll definitely keep this in mind when designing Schwarzritter (villain turned ally/protagonist's love interest), Lucien (false ally), Kronos (dark mirror), and Aion (force of nature). You just earned yourself a subscriber.
So good, as always Jed. Wonderfully organized and articulated. This helped me a lot. My first book in the series focuses on a love story between a mage and a hyu. Really, the woman is the man's antagonist for much of the story, because she can use magic, and he can't, and she's better than him because of it. But they discover together that this Divide is contrived. Then it's her grandfather who is the main antagonist. This video helped me realize that it's crucial I make clear my MC has won over his love interest, and they're going to take down the system together. This makes her grandfather, the real antagonist, much more powerful when he turns her against him. He's a dark mirror to her, and in later books, he'll be one to him.
Thank you!
I'm working on a homebrew D&D campaign, and I'm about to introduce the BBEG. This video just showed up in my algorithm. Very helpful for creating my bad guy. Thank you for the advice.
Great video! I guess that Loki from the MCU would also be a shapeshifter villain
Video game series called the Tales franchise, in one release, Tales of Vesperia, had a very good example of the anti-villain for the main antagonist. First he's met very early in the story by the heroes, and he's pretty much just seen as a lone mercenary contemplating something at the time. As the story goes on, he's more and more frequently crossing paths with the main cast, and it's from him they learn much about a threat to the world that is being caused by the more visible villains/threat, which short version will result in the worldly elements of earth, water, wind, and fire raging out of control and destroying all life. He is even the one who teaches the main hero of the story, Yuri, how to be a much greater swordsman and lost magic skills that vanished from common knowledge long ago.
The heroes of the story eventually seek to bring the elements back into balance by summoning and enlisting the aid of elemental guardian spirits to watch over said elements, while also doing what they can to curb the tide of the technology and magic of the world that is causing the imbalance in the first place. Meanwhile the antagonist, while initially hopeful for their efforts, finally gives up on the idea, deciding the only way to prevent the world's destruction is for humanity to be gone from it, along with all their misuse of magic and technology that caused the initial imbalance. And even with that extreme of a view, when the confrontation at the grand finale, it still manages to not read as "hero vs. villain," but rather as clashing of heroes of differing ideals.
It's part of the reason why Vesperia is considered one of the best games of the series by the dedicated fanbase. A lot of people who came in on that hype after the fact don't see it the same, but most of them also don't finish the game because of what is very dated combat gameplay compared to modern games of the same series.
Not currently writing a Fantasy novel, but what is talked about here still applies
Love that you use Brandon Sanderson as a reference 👏
You can make an antagonist and a protagonist fight each other without conflicting goals,
if you make the real antagonist be misunderstanding itself.
They each fight to achieve their own goals while they misinterpret the actions of the other, making them see each other as a threat to their own goal.
If this misunderstanding is realized, the antagonist and the protagonist suddenly have a common enemy, that they defeat by making peace with each other.
But if the misunderstanding is never acknowledged: You've got yourself a tragedy.
The audience knows the solution to the conflict, but they must watch as that solution is never achieved by the characters.
A story like this can have the purpose of teaching the audience a moral lesson (for example).
I have issue with the Frodo/sauron thing. Sauron doesn't tempt Fredo. He doesn't know where Frodo is for almost the entirety of the story. That's why he went to war with Gondor. He assumed that's where the ring would be. The ring itself is what tempted Frodo and Boramere. The ring is more like the villain of the book.
Edit: Secondly, Sarumon isn't influenced by Sauron. He wants the ring for himself to take over.
You're wrong about that 2nd one (though kinda right about the 1st). Through the Palantir, Saruman was heavily influenced by Sauron. To what degree and exactly how is never made clear- but Sauron's influence through the stone was stated as such outright.
From what Sauron told Pippin, it sounded like they'd been conspiring together to corrupt the peoples and land.
Thanks for the information. I’ll probably refer back to these when I get back into writing full swing. Started and had some blocks or feel one coming on. So working for the post office and plan to get my military time back for more benefits. I got a lot of ideas so might just write and but them regardless ratings. Just because I rather have at least one person read and maybe stick around.
Catch me writing out and summarising my antagonists in the lens of some of these mistakes to see if I'm on the right track
Got my primary Antagonists set up. They are the final boss.
Also got a past Dark Mirror.
These are good tips for new dungeon masters.
I am trying to write my own story for the first time and this video pointed out many things that wouldn’t have occurred to me.
Something else I’ve noticed on my own when writing a story is the history. Having a mostly developed history, even if you don’t use most of it, would help prevent controversy in the plots.
Thanks!
I liked that end segment.
Your videos are awesome, Jed! This one is particularly helpful and I'm probably going to watch it several more times as I try to flesh out an unforeseen villain who has entered my plot. Haha (I'm a bit of a plantser.) Thank you for all the wonderful advice!
Love the video!
Although the David and Goliath story was inaccurate, it got the point across 😂
I enjoy watching your videos to prepare myself to write my book.
San dan Glokta has one of the best character arcs I've ever read.....you've earned my sub for mentioning him. 👍
Oh my god, the story I am working on has a total of 5 characters that work as antagonists in the grand scheme of things, and they all are a different archetype in the 5 archetypes you mentioned. I feel proud of myself man 😊
The Dark mirror reminded me of the villian from Aladdin(2019), he is like Aladdin in alot of different ways, but he is a dark version of him
The greenscreen was the very best thing I’d seen all day
13:30 I recently came up w a story and the antagonist I created or shld I say, antagonists, have all of those points ticked on their checklist. This vid really helped me improve some of my other antagonists(they often act too cocky and talk a big game but tbf some of them were created to act like that) as well
Omg I needed this so much thank you!
You're so welcome!
To me Homelander kind of relates to a quote, though I don't recall who said it... "To the villain's perspective, they are the hero of their story.." Homelander is a very dark and dangerous character, who is more villain than hero, but in his mind, he is the hero.
Interesting, I had not considered it like that but I think in terms of villains my story would feature:
- one "force of nature", albeit pretty hidden till late in the story
- a lesser force of nature, more "obvious" threat
- a couple of anti-villains working for the latter, some even showing clear heroic traits but the situation just makes them de facto antagonists
- a character who is both a false ally and a dark mirror to the second main protagonist; "you remind me of a myself, many years ago" (implied, but not understood at the time is "before I forsook my honor")
- a few more false allies/anti-villains, politics is ever a nasty business
- what I had not seen as such until now but what is defo a shapeshifter, albeit overall more dangerous for the antagonists
- the main protagonist herself when she let herself be led astray from the "right" path. Anti-villain?
Maybe I need to leave a bit of room for good guys now :P As often, thank you Jed for all your work and advicer.
lol good guys do help.
I see a lot of people talking about how twist villains (and twists and general), shouldn't be too obvious but also shouldn't come from nowhere. There's a balance there. However, that's pretty vague and unclear on how to achieve that balance, so I think I good way to think about it is to write your foreshadowing such that most of it goes over the head of a first-time reader, but a second-time reader will spot it immediately and think, "Oooohhhh! It was here the whole time!"
I remember re-reading Of Mice and Men and spotting so many examples of foreshadowing that I completely missed on my first read, and that experience just gave me a whole new understanding for and appreciation of foreshadowing done right. It elevated Of Mice and Men even more than it already was on my favorite books list (and it might've already been at the top).
I think you should’ve mentioned the Joker as an example of an antagonist that is weaker than the protagonist. Every time the Joker is in the same room as Batman, he nearly dies -and should in many cases- yet, he persists in fighting Batman.
I think the only reason he didn't is that sometimes the joker is depicted as being just as strong and skilled as batman.
@@user-gt7vi9jm9m I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Joker be as physically powerful as Batman.
@@swxqt6826 only in The Batman 2004 series.
Luke Castellan from Percy Jackson series is fit for twist villain character and the complex one. Though now that I reread the book one I see a lot of hint there...
I would soooo love to see you talk about the antagonist perspective of Attack on titan. It would be so interesting to see you break it down.
My villain seems to be a combination of false ally, dark mirror and anti villain.
Not sure if a combination is ok or should he only have 1 of those villain traits?
Kind of boring advice from a non-professional. But why do you write? To express yourself or tell a unique story I assume, so do what you want as long as you feel like it fits.
Edit:Fixed a typo
I think the combination is fine, since we can already see from it that a certain conflict, disagreement about a solution is going to escalate into an open confrontation. The question is which aspect of those three is the most important to the journey of the hero. Personally I'd think it's the dark mirror - the reflection of what the hero might have become and the highlighting what makes him different. This could also become the reason for the villain to refect from the heros ideals in the first place.
Problem with this collection is, that you lose out on the strength of the "false ally", where the villain is cunningly infiltration the heroes party. By making him also an anti-villain he is also not entirely wrong just misguided in his goals, which is why he wasn't really a false ally from the get go, but came to be a traitor. Which begs the question: What forced our hero out to become a hero in the first place, when the main villain wasn't malicious at first?
So the main question remains for you to figure out which role of those three is the most important of this villain at the end. The other two should enhance this role you have in mind. That's what I personally think.
@@christianstephan7301 Thank you for the feedback. The dark mirror is definitely the main aspect.
I was also trying to fit the other aspects in my book. The villain is basically a illusionist, capable of changing hes appearance.
In that way he is able to manipulate the MC and take back what is hes from the false villain, who starts the conflict for the protagonist.
I am only worried the story might become too complicated or even bloated, but I will try my best to avoid that.
Even if it means a lot of change. Hell I have been doing that for a while now as I have been learning.
I really love your videos! Do you have any video about story outlines? I've heard you mentioning it quite a few times, but I can't find a video on it. Are they only available on your boot camp?
I have seen some videos do and donts which is fine and vital but feels it gets to much rules about what mistakes to avoid! Best classics mostly simple written stories without to much plot twist etc like lord of the rings! Pretty straight forward. I would like to know more about how to write the plot/outline - guidance to structure a book. Best regards Gabriel
a great way to do the 'secret bad guy' twist is to have it so that even the turncoat himself doesn't know he's going to turn evil until it's too late. Not because of mind control or something, but rather because the circumstance changes in such a way where the character's morals become compromised. The partner's loved one is held hostage or he's been blackmailed - or perhaps some unavoidable tragedy befalls him. He acts out of desperation, despair or disillusionment, without needing to have some big setup because we already understand his character's rationale perfectly. Examples include Harvey Dent from The Dark Knight, or Aribeth de Tylmarande from Neverwinter Nights
My antagonist in my story is an army of relentless demons with zero morals or reasoning.
So they are force of nature. But my approach to make it intresting is many demon types, flying ones, laser shooting ones, swimming ones, stuff like that.
This legion of demons will come in mass quantity on a certain day called "armageddon", and the heroes are trying to prepare for this day to come by warning others and gathering up an army.
But, dispite all the legion's smaller attacks, very few people will accept the fact that armageddon will come.
I'm going on with this idea...😂
@@elyam. Yeah I think it's cool! Feel free to use it!
Cool stuff, but in this case, it seems closer that the ignorance of people is the real main “antagonist” and the legion is just the motivating plot device?
@@DarkCreedNinja Yeah. The main conflict of the story is the group trying to spread the word of the armageddon.
(Its a note that armageddon is not immediately known about, it is something that is found out to happen from a discovery)
The legion is mainly a physical combat aspect, bc this is an adventure story.
There's a great subversion of the "villain underdog" trope in Saint Seiya and the Lost Canvas.
The first bunch of episodes have the villain start from nothing, but then he gradually climbs the power scale which makes him really threatening later on.
I am so grateful for all the writing information your videos have. I love writing, but I struggle so much with it.
Oooh, I’d kind of say that Morgana from Merlin could be considered an anti-villain in the later seasons. (I liked her wayyyyy more than the protagonist, lol, but that kept me watching. It’s also interesting, because she and Merlin had some similar goals. It did give a lot of moral ambiguity)
Death: that's what am saying
I will say the villain of my own book has characteristics of several of these archetypes. Won’t spoil what but let’s say I hope it’s an incredible twist villain.
*takes deep breath*
1:11 KRONOS, PJO
2:00 LUKE, PJO
3:13 KRONOS, PJO
4:25 LUKE, PJO
5:37 LUKE OR CLARISSE, PJO
thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Having a diverse cast of Antagonists can help a lot. It lets you display multiple aspects of the conflict. For example, you could have the overarching conflict be with an evil god that wants to break reality, but their main followers in the world range from the unremitting sadist, to the vengeful ex-lover, to the power-hungry braggart, to the Nihilistic true believer, and all of these csn be brought forward when appropriate.
Thanks for the heads up on the Evil Overlord list, so correct🤣
Loved number 100
Finally, to keep my subjects permanently locked in a mindless trance, I will provide each of them with free unlimited Internet access.