6 Magic System Mistakes New Fantasy Writers Make
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
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⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction
00:19 - Everything's a nail
01:39 - No consideration of limits
06:05 - Thinking you need a hard magic system
10:55 - Not integrating magic into the traingle of story
16:28 - The sloppy buffet
18:42 - Instant mastery
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You see, I don't actually have to make a magic system until book 3, because the protagonist is new to magic as well. No one explains it to him until way later, but don't worry I totally already planned it out and there will surely be no contradicting information once I reveal how it works.
Is there no magic in the first two books?
I'm guessing the joke is that the magic is soft in the first two books and the author is a Gardener
hey, is this a personal attack or something!!! 😂
I feel this post in my bones lol
Smart guy overe there
Your last point about showing Level 10 magic while the main character is Level 1 is really on-point, since one of my stories starts with an intense competition between the magic users showing how it can be used on an expert level before revealing a poor young girl in patched clothes watching from behind a fence, wishing she could be one of those people.
Yo wait just from how this sounds I need to read it
I made it so that the main trio all have really powerful magic, but can't control it, or even use it to its fullest at will. Kind of like how Percy Jackson can hold back the sea, or choke someone with their own blood, but he doesn't because of mental restrictions. I wish I could explore your idea. A magic contest sounds so cool.
@@GodRyan929 Percy Jackson can't choke someone with their own blood. That's pure headcanon. But he can choke someone with their own saliva, so that's something.
@@en4833 and their own poison
A perfect example of this is the opening of Baldur's Gate 2. The antagonist archmage, Irenicus, demonstrates unassailable power right off the bat, exploding and disintegrating tons of opposing mages with high-level spells, before allowing himself to be captured. It makes it very apparent that the player's party stands no chance against this enemy, but by the end of the game, they have (potentially) mastered spells of similar power themselves, and can fight this mage on equal terms. It's a fabulous introduction to a truly iconic villain.
"Everything's a nail" -- or in D&D terms, "I cast Fireball".
"I didn't ask if we were fighting Fire Elementals. I said, _I cast Fireball."_
More on-topic, last year I did a Nanowrimo story where curses are literally the residual spirits of the one who died placing them (which is a hard rule), very soft-magicky (limited only by terms intuitive to each curse), and it starts with my main character getting cursed into being a monster (well, more a "magic animal" kind of "monster" but still). But what made it really challenging is that the first-person POV is _from the curse itself,_ who acts as a second voice in the main character's head that nobody else can perceive or knows about. Technically this means my POV gets more visibility into the setting's various soft-magic than the character should normally have, but this also doesn't suddenly turn it into a "hard magic" system either, because the curse more or less "used up" its soft-magic abilities on the main character, leaving it constrained in their new body.
Player: "I cast fireball!"
Ancient Fire Dragon: "That ain't a fireball... THIS is a fireball..."
there is no "I" in the team, however there are six "I's" in "fuck it, i don't care how big the room is "I cast a fireball"" :3
Wait that’s such an awesome concept???? Is the full thing available to read anywhere?
@@andano4055 What, my story? No, I wrote it under the strict time limit that is Nanowrimo so I have no intention of posting the "full thing" as currently written. It has some neat moments to be sure but a completed plot or overall "story arc" is _not_ one of them.
For example, late in the story they encounter a monstrous, chimeric beast and the narrator (i.e: the curse inside the main character) is able to detect that the monster is under its own curse -- so the two curses are able to sort of talk directly to each other, end result being the main character was able to befriend the monster, and by the end of the month that monster is now part of the party. For a creature that was intended to be a bit part for the party to fight (not necessarily _kill,_ but at minimum just escape from) this was a completely unexpected development, but it occurred too late in the month to really do much with.
@@Stratelier Thats understandable, sounds like an amazing story though! It seems like you’ve got a lot of unique perspective written into it, and I wish you the best with wherever you go with the rest of the story!
There is another kind of limitation you can add to magic : danger from being detected. Think Gandalf saying that if he use fire magic, everybody (aka, Sauron and Saruman at least) will know that he is there. Or the way the paradox strikes Mages in the TTRP Mage : the awakening. It's not exactly a physical cost, because it's unpredictable. It's a threat : if the hero use magic, very bad things may happen, and he can't know what because those things have a will.
Thus, such a limitation has another advantage, because it gaves more choices to the writer. It's a "deus ex machina" that is a consistent with the world.
Good point. Another "limitation" I like is the "world of cardboard" effect. Essentially, a character with super strength or powerful elemental affect has to take great care when using such power. Otherwise, they could cause unspeakable, catastrophe damage with their power and unintentionally commit horrific acts.
@@Magus_Unionthis connects back to lord of the rings quite well, the Valar could easily destroy Sauron, but not without destroying most of middle earth, so instead they send spirits like Gandalf and limit their powers a bit more than normal.
That doesn't really count as a limitation because nothing is ultimately stopping the character from doing the overpowered thing and the audience knows the writer just chooses whether or not the watcher shows up. If you use it as your limitation, you can never not have the watcher strike in response to excessive power level, or else the illusion of the limitation's existence is shattered.
@@yurisei6732
Eh no. Nothing stopping people from breaking the law either. Soft limits are still limits. You can even build an entire story about how the protagonist keeps challenging the limit and spends the rest of the time running away from the Warden that comes to get them. Actually that's just your average crime thriller storyline.
@@raizors1331 The difference is that people reading crime thrillers are already pretty familiar with how "the consequences of breaking the law" works. Crime thrillers depend on the reader having a pre-established assumption that the police investigate crime and try to lock up or kill the people who do it, and sometimes the assumption that "law enforcement" is morally good, too. This is how crime thrillers manage to get away with almost never actually arresting anyone, especially when from the perspective of the criminals.
When you're writing a magical punishment system, you don't have any of that. You have to find a way to make the reader understand what it is and give them a way to believe that it's a significant threat. The only way to do that is to actually show it causing problems, and in a consistent way.
Like, imagine what crime thriller would be like if there was no such thing as law or the police in the real world. You'd think any character with a gun was massively overpowered because the only limitation on who they could shoot would be the possibility that after shooting someone, a faceless armoured monster might show up and put you in a room. Except you write it so that that monster never actually shows up, the worst that ever happens is sometimes the characters hear the siren that indicates the monster is approaching. There's no way to believe the monster is a credible threat, and therefore it doesn't really act as a limitation. The reader doesn't think "Oh he can't shoot his way out of this problem because he doesn't want the monster to show up".
For your first example of anti gravity, MHA did a great job balancing their character. She needs to touch the target with the pads on her fingertips, gets severe nausea when she uses it on herself or exceeds the capacity of ~3 tons, and when she cancels the ability by tapping the pads of her fingers together, everything stops being affected
The cultural and legal one made me think "Harry Potter", I've always said "this probably doesn't happen in the US's magic school" they're probably like "as your first class or protection against the dark arts you'll learn the killer spell as such spell is protected by your first and second amendment rights as the basis to enforce your fourth amendment rights"
Would the 4th amendment protect you from the tracking spell without a court order? Would you be prevented from using scilent attack spells as that would be considered a "fully automatic wand"? Would you need to pay monthly insurance for your wand in case of litigation?
@@VukMujovic I'm assuming the magic school, being secret and secluded, would have it's own jurisdiction and tradition, I doubt they are beholden to the NFA and it'd silly logic.
But yeah, I feel like being found to have used a tracking spell would probably be a fourth amendment violation. Probably Dementors are heavily regulated for this very reason, as their ruthless and and relentless aggression would constitute some WMD or biological weapon of sorts.
@@Saint_Wolf_dementors are also certainly a cruel and unusual punishment. The founding fathers never intended soul suck as a punishment for murder
@@highonquack6622 indeed, given the Specto Patronum doesn't take a toll on the user I bet not helping someone with a Dementor would constitute a crime.
This has me laughing my ass off at how accurate it is.
I am very autistic, and that may be a reason on why I love HARD magic systems, there is something special about a rule or condition going full circle, or stretching a law to its absolute limit, the how far can I take this…
I love the idea of challenges not only the protagonist gets to solve, but also the reader as they go along, how some times the reader, based on the set up of the situation, and the rules, can come up with different solutions to problems, how something this are the same the main character chose, or been surprised by a way a ability was used since they weren’t expecting it, but it also makes sense.
Idk why, it’s just so satisfying.
I KNOW RIGHT
Same, hard magic is just so satisfying. Have you considered learning to program? Really scratches the autistic itch to see systems at work.
@@yurisei6732 Guess what carrier im following on college...
Same. Although I'm less down the spectrum.
Liking something complex doesn't mean you're autistic.
Nor being autistic mean you automatically do. Don't make it your personality.
I love hard-ish magic systems where there are definite rules and limitations, but where those aren't necessarily understood fully in-world, nevermind by the reader. This allows both for well-timed reveals and for SEEMING subversions of the established rules. It's really hard to get it right, because it's so easy to shred the suspension of disbelief, but when a writer gets it right... *chef kiss*
Yeh. Hard and Soft Magic is not mutually exclusive. Not only they can coexist, they may be result of each other.
Perhaps we can call those chewy magic systems. Not hard, not soft, but you best hope they made it right or it'll be kinda gross.
I think a good example of this would be the titans in attack on titan
The superman thing reminds me... I've had some truly wild conversations with folks who just somehow entirely failed to notice the main conflict, or entire a-plot of a story because they couldn't imagine something like an internal conflict could possibly be the main point.
I remember one guy who swore the main character in a movie had no character arc, and it was literally the entire focus of everything.
Reminds me of how battle shonen fans will equate power ups to character development. While the two can interact, you can have a character not grow in power and grow as a person.
About the "everything looks like a nail" - thing: it could be cool to have the protagonist use his one signature spell for everything, but his opponents getting wind of it so in the gravity example the 3rd time they find a way to tether themsekves to the ground - and then the protagonist has a problem cause he's used to gravity working...
Just be careful with it, otherwise you'll have an entire page of how the villain counters every previous ability that the hero used, like "oh I have this tether to stop your gravity magic and this roof to stop your sun magic and this torch to stop your ice magic and this enchanted armour to stop your sword summoning magic and these enchanted boots to stop your spike summoning magic..." Etc. etc.
@@Ammiad of course, this is only interesting if the hero really is a specialist.
That sounds great though? @@Ammiad
@@Ammiadlooks like "no u" competition lol
Another plausible situation for the “ everything looks like a nail” magic is when it is used as comedic relief.
For example, a protagonist can for a very short span of time, temporarily remove all forms of friction on their target. It’s low cost, fast and no direct damage but can disarm or trouble opponents.
It is a magic that can absolutely be abused but the writer only uses it sparingly and only for comedic effect.
I think it is brilliant.
As someone who’s begun writing their first book in the past year, these videos are super helpful and informative. Keep up the videos dude
What about 'Terrible Writing Advice' and 'Hello Future Me'?
For me, it's definitely when the system is trivialized by poor writing choices.
ie: You have a magic caste system, but the protagonist is either good at them all, or has a unique skill that beats out all other types.
Or, like in Harry Potter, you have all these spells and hexes and jinxes and curses had could be used in creative ways, but the enemy faction has the OHKO spell Avada Kedavra. You might as well have given them guns.
The AK isnt really that OP.
Harry potter is a pretty equal mix of hard magic and soft magic systems, and the AK has many drawbacks
1: It has a long incantation(AVADA KEDAVRA) compared to other spells like Stupefy, which would effectively do the same thing, or Bombarda.
2: It can't be cast non verbally, so you always get a warning
3: it can be blocked by physical things like cover
4: Most importantly, it needs PURE HATRED to work properly. if you don't HATE something from the bottom of your heart, at max it will give them a nosebleed. So other than people like Voldemort, who's been established to be a hateful litlle bitch, its not useable outside a few niche scenarios
5: it weakens/fractures your soul.
6: IDK the consequence of both eternal suffering in Limbo being stuck, not able to pass on when you die, and the consequence of being chucked in with the dementors no questions asked for life is a pretty big consequence
Great video as always. I would dissagre partially on the sloppy buffet part. I really like when magic is this huge thing that affects the world. So when there is many different sort of mini magic systems it gives feeling of diversity. Of course if done badly then it is just a jumbled mess.
There's a very fine line between diverse and arbitrary though. Good diversity is variation that retains a feeling of connection and unity. A good diverse magic system still feels like one coherent magic system just with many intricacies. It's pretty much the same as in population dynamics: when you look at statistics, diverse societies and segregated societies are often indistinguishable in terms of things like number of people of each group within a certain area, but they function completely differently.
The reason this is important is because if your buffet is too sloppy, you can't actually write interesting scenarios using it. You end up with a Marvel situation where the interior workings of any given person's ability is irrelevant because only the end results of powers interact with each other, and ultimately every fight devolves into punching and laser beams. When Iron Man fights Hulk, it doesn't matter that Iron Man's power is being a technological genius with a magic rocket-powered cybersuit and a sapient AI copilot, because all of those words are only used to generate punches, and Hulk has no way of interacting with any part of that power except the punches generated by it. If the magic system was a coherent "tech" system though, Iron Man's enemy could be a hacker who is able to disable parts of his power, and now he's in a fight that only him and this nemesis could ever have - Hulk can't be hacked and doesn't fight hackers on any different ground to anyone else - they all just die to punch.
First-time watcher.
Two rules of thumb I like to keep in mind;
Soft Magic can be hard magic from a different perspective.
Hard magic is good at solving issues. Soft magic is good at making them.
When I make a setting I like to tell a lot of different stories in that setting, and even if in one story I explained how the magic works, it doesn't mean I need to in the next, especially if the characters don't actually use it at all.
One magic system I enjoy is in the skulduggery pleasant books. It's sort of a mix of hard and soft magic: There are some clear limits established in th beginning of the series, but on the occasions that those rules are broken, the readers don't feel cheated because of the way the breaking of these rules is explained. Additionally, neither the reader nor the characters ever seem to fully understand magic, due to just how vast of a group of forces, entities and abilities it covers.
Not read them so can't say for them specifically, but usually when a hard magic system is "breaking the rules but explaining how", it's not actually breaking the rules, it's just showing that the real rules are different to the rules initially presented. It's still fully hard, it's just maintaining the intrigue instead of loredumping the full explanation upfront.
@@yurisei6732the way I see it, it's "breaking" the Newtonian laws of magic, but it's because Einstein didn't discover Special Magitivity yet, not because the author's a hack. That's an important distinction.
In my book i have a cursed physically impaired protagonist who wants to learn magic that changes her reality. This magic is wielded by (what are functionally) guardian angels and wings are a symbol of experience, power, and freedom. In the end of book one, she overcomes a great adversary and earns her magic wings at a very young age, but afterwards she struggles to make them appear, much less control her flight.
Many people told me to save the wings for the end of the trilogy, because when you get the power to fly you’re already godmode. And that’s a valid concern. I avoided giving anyone wings for a long time because it felt like it cheapened the difficulty of certain conflicts. But there's no reason to assume that flight becomes the solution to every conflict, when it's just another tool the protagonist needs to learn how to use and when to use it.
A lot of games will give you a glide early on and then more advanced flight later. This opens up the world without cheapening the conflict. I don’t like stories featuring magic where the protagonist can’t do any magic until the finale and then they struggle to do magic for 2 more releases. It’s far more interesting to me to give them power and watch them struggle to control it or watch it corrupt them - rather than have them squeeze droplets out of a dry sponge.
A good example of this is Lord of the Rings. Frodo has the ring in the beginning but it is only used in certain situations, and if it's overused it will alert the enemy to their presence and begin to corrupt him. A bad example from the same story is how Gandalf doesn't do magic until the fellowship needs him to, and then he conveniently disappears so he doesn't become overpowered to the story. But in these kinds of stories, these guardian type figures are very much forces of nature who guide heroes on their quest within the parameters they are permitted to rather than directly intervene.
Another bad example of this is Rey in the Star Wars sequels: she magically uses the force to win every scenario and never struggles to wield it or control it, much less is she tempted or corrupted by it. The concept of a protagonist who is very powerful early on yet unable to control it would have been very compelling for Star Wars as a stark contrast to Luke who had to learn from the bottom and train. But they just repeated Luke's arc and took out all of his hard work and internal conflict.
As an avid gamer, I agree: if the feedback is "flight seems too OP for this point in the story" then it sounds like they're assuming this ability is the solution to their central conflict, when (from your perspective as the writer) it's actually _not._ In many a Metroidvania, for example, you don't truly get an "OP" ability until the final areas, areas which no prior abilities will help you navigate.
And, since you mentioned flight specifically, it reminds me of the movie _Rio,_ about a blue parrot who, due to a traumatic childhood incident, believes he's incapable of flying. Physically he's fine and flightworthy, but mentally, any time he's in the air he panics, flails, and falls.
Flight is OP? From the standpoint of military fiction fans, that's arguable. They even have a meme for it
"What do you call flying soldiers? We call them skeets"
Flight by itself is not OP. On the other hand, super fast flight tend to be. Flight by itself just give a new dimension to fight, aka, flexibility. A slow plane has to be forced to make very careful approach otherwise they're shot out of the sky.
And there could be physiological limitations. How fast can she go before the forces acting upon her body maim or kill her? Think fighter pilots.
Also it's cold up in the air. How would she stay warm? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle while there is frost on the grass? Your hands and face will hate you, plus any holes or vents will become very obvious.
She will need to protect herself from projectiles if she flies fast and how will she stop herself becoming a slow moving target if she cannot fly very fast?
I like that you have included it early enough that the reader can discover along with her how she will overcome the limitations.
About the flying concern: I also think it depends on the limitations, right? If the flying takes just as much ressources as running, it ain't THAT OP anymore, is it?
Cal Kestis on the other hand was done right. The man’s a legit Jedi from the old days, but his original training ended at Padawan lvl because of Order 66, and on top of that it’s taking him multiple games to reconnect with the Force after the trauma from his past severed it
Funny i always thought the key to the dune magic system was genetics and not spice. I mean spice is needed for sure, but your genetics are more important. Like gebetics are the spells and spice is the mana.
My (likely incorrect) understanding was that it was essentially an extension of Paul's mentat abilities, which let him do insane calculations very quickly. So he was basically doing calculations while tripping on mushrooms, which meant that he could fully visualise all of these possibilities he was calculating.
No idea if that's correct though, just what I assumed.
Another trap that particularly (though not exclusively) authors of hard magic systems suffer from is when they make all magic follow the same rules, they interpret that as basically just giving everyone the same power set.
This is kind of a variant of 2, as it sort of implies that the level of skill in all fields of magic scale together (rather than - say - one wizard being better at enchantments while another is more skilled at alchemy), and results in issue 1 where it means the solution to every problem is the same because every threat is essentially the same but of more or less intensity.
To use a superhero example, one of the great things about Spiderman's rogue's gallery is that that they challenge his abilities in different ways. He can't fight Green Goblin the same way he'd fight Doc Oc. Mysterio is of "ordinary" power but master of illusion making Spidey's strength the less important factor in the battle but relying on his senses vital. Venom on the other hand doesn't trigger Peter's Spider Sense at all so can't be approached in at all the same way.
These are all different villains that offer different challenges, ensuring that Peter can't just approach every fight in the same fashion.
4:15 Like in Re: Zero when Subaru over uses his magic gate and he needs healing from the best healer maybe in the world, than he has to leave mid way through his treatment to save everyone from the witch cult, eventually destroying his magic gate beyond repair. Though he does inherit the authority of sloth from Petleguse.
To those who don't know about Re: Zero it's basically a phycological horror story with an extremely weak main character that somehow manages to pull through most situations with minimal long term damage other than extreme PTSD. One of the best stories I've ever watched, though they do make it rather complicated to the point it's hard to follow sometimes with the shear amount of things that did and didn't happen to remember.
The Re:Zero magic system is interesting, in the sense it isn't that Hard as a magic system, because there are PLENTY of different schools of magic. There's curses, witchcraft, spirit magic, classic elemental spells, blessings, martial techniques, weapons imbuing, and so on. But every character have his own personal limits, which make the magic system secondary to what can this or that character do with it. Subaru is a very poor mage, but it's proven afterward he's very gifted in witchcraft even if witchcraft have its limits, and he rely mostly on his contract with a spirit. You know what you can and can't expect from him. In the same way, Roswaal is a classic archmage, with powerful and destructive spells, but he can't use healing magic. It's the diversity of characters that make the magic system shine, not the intricacies of the magic system itself which is often loosely defined by how the people of this world use so many different techniques.
> minimal long term damage other than extreme PTSD
This sentence caught me off guard lol
Whos rem?
Hard vs. soft magic depends a lot on how much access and control the main characters have with it.
Soft works well if it's something the main characters can't do, and mostly see done in the world around them (in which case it can be just as mysterious and magical for them as it is for us), or if it's something they don't have great control over (if they did, then either they know how it works, so we the audience should as well, or it looks like the characters are just pulling things out of their magic asses.
Hard magic is kind of needed if it's something the main party's going to be relying on and using a lot. We need to know their abilities, restrictions and at least a bit about how it all works for their actions and tactics to make sense. Or at least a blended system where we have a hard understanding of our characters' magic, but not about the broader magic of the setting.
As a gamer writing a comic, I can only relate this video to the Every Frame a Painting video on Chuck Jones. Read/consume as much as you can (comics, videogames, books) and show discipline, since you can do everything, show everything, you'll be defined by what you don't do.
I'm actually trying to explore "innate ability" where my MC has genetic innate ability placing him leagues above most others, but has close to zero talent for learning spells. Because he didn't train and learn on time, he needs to use other skills to compensate, and rely on other people. Magic systems, in the end, are just allegories for real life and there are limits to everything and everyone, and we need to work around them.
Kevin Hearne's magic system in his Plague of Giants series was fascinating: to get a certain kind of magic you had to literally risk your life. If you over used that magic--it aged and eventually kill you. Great series.
KH is my current favorite author. Nice shoutout!
sounds interesting, thanks
I'm working on a story that doesn't exactly have magic, but the main character is a shape shifter based on genetics. He is a hybrid between a human and an alien and the accident that altered the parent's genes allowing the two characters to produce a child together also made the shape shifting possible. The shape shifting heals wounds, but the character's mass is lowered by the amount of mass loss that the wounding caused and he has to regain that mass to be fully healed. For example if he lost an arm he could heal the wound, but he would need to replace the lost mass before he could be as strong in that replacement arm. Also if he lost too much mass he could die from being diminished below a level that he can recover from. He had a brother with the same powers who died from trying to regenerate too many times without rebuilding body mass. His shape shifting does have the advantage of perfect regeneration which could allow him to live forever if he doesn't die from loss of body mass.
Anyway, your talk on magic systems made me wonder if I in effect had some sort of magic system with this character.
that's interesting.
This is a great video. I've always wanted to write a novel but can never get more than a few pages written before the fear of failure makes me quit.
I have this idea for a magic system where mages channel residual magical essence in the air into their body then back out into the world to create effects but everyone has a limit to both the rate they can channel it at, and the capacity they can hold at one time. More powerful spells require higher capacity and high throughput is needed for maintaining continuous effects. Going over this limit can result in horrible injuries, dangerous accidents and death so mages must spend years training to increase their limit.
go for it! the only failure is never writing anything, if its still something you want to write
Reminds me of a story I tossed out when the MC gained godlike power in the first few pages.. all his statistics were literally infinite, infinite strength, health, magic.. one of the first things he did was create a sort of heaven for himself to live in, bring his dead parents back to life and give them near infinite power and look into the future to all the fights he'd win one day.. all this in the first few pages of the story. There was no struggle, no growth, and his future was set in stone with him as the perpetual victor. Even his backstory of pain and suffering was thrown out. I still can't shake my head at that.
So I say, never give the MC too much power or an ability that solves every problem.
Infinite power stories can work if you're going for an emotional story rather than an adventure/action story. What does being infinitly powerful do to them? How do others react? That sort of thing.
Not a bad idea though, you just have to make a magic system that makes "infinite something" bad. For example, maybe "infinite health" within the context of the magic system means your cells are incapable of changing, meaning your body is always that of an infant with all the limitations that brings.
All of this good advice, in my Sovereign Species story, there are multiple magic systems at work within the story, one plain to see for everyone that the main characters use, another more esoteric and soft one that the villains have at their disposal, that none of the heroes know the rules to. The two factions are so fundamentally anathema to eachother that even their magic systems are trying to destroy the other. For example, the Aldokk need to go through extremely specific rituals in order to sieze the Arek's power without dying, and even when they succeed, they only have access to a select few abilities, and even then, the weakest of them completely lose their cohesion, turning into living masses of fleshy paste without dying.
Whilst the Arek seek to annihilate everything of the Aldokk, they literally exorcize objects that the Aldokk have imparted their own magical energy into, and embracing the Aldokk's magic, or even tolerating the existence of the Aldokk themselves, causes the Arek's own might to wane as their souls slowly erode from living amongst the Aldokk's presence for too long.
Loved the sneaky Stormlight reference at the start as well as the Mistborn reference. Both fabulous series
In a world building project I’m working on, the magic system revolves around some weird invisible matter which somehow interacts with the transmission of information in any living organism. Basically, when there is strong emotion or a strong wish or a defensive reflex in any living being magic can be triggered accidentally. So plants, fungi and animals have evolved to either have a more complex way of information transfer like a brain to have better control over their magic or specific behaviours to trigger useful magic reflexively. For humans that means, that they can cast magic with a specific goal in mind but never exactly know how that goal will be achieved but also that getting to know yourself better and having better control over your subconscious will directly correlate to better control over magic, not it’s strength tho, because that depends on the quantity of that magical matter stuff in your vicinity and your willpower. A simpler goal therefore usually creates stronger but less controllable magic than a more specific one.
you have helped me through my writing soo much jed, your content never ceases to aid me
5:26 This is interesting, because yes, there are limitations to my world. Magic only works for a few hours at certain times, it doesn't work during the summer because of the heat/fire restriction. It does tend to tire a person out if they use too much of it too soon. Magic exists for a short time. They gain it around 12, and lose it around 40 when they go through the Phase.
Always look forward to your stuff, Jed. You put out very helpful content!
I'm currently working on my 6 book fantasy series right now... so thanks for sharing great pointers for me to work upon to make my book better each day. You're really a great person for helping out the world of writers. Thank you, Jed. ❤
The magic system I’m using is based on one’s own personal ideology. I have four people who have different fire magic. One is a person wants to be joyful and bring joy and happiness to people so his fire magic is basically fireworks that can bring different effects to empower himself or others. Another saw fire as pure destruction so it will always burn you even if you have protection or just near it. A third saw it as comforting and a tool people use so she can heal people with it. And the last saw fire as ever changing force similar to people so it allow themselves to transform themselves and others.
My favorite magic system is the one in Light Novel Mushoku Tensei. At first it's described as generic mana based 4 elements + healing magic, you cast by shaping mana by chanting or drawing a magic circle. But later you realize that:
1. It can do anything as long as you have enough mana, understand the effect you wanna make and know how to shape mana to achieve it.
2. It's functionally simple elemental system because of a cultural framework around it, making it easier to understand and learn + magic is relatively new branch of science so it's still not fully developed.
Good advice, it helped me with my current fantasy book.
Great video. I always look forward to watching. 😊
I feel like there were a hundred tips crammed into this video. In a good way!
There is another way to deal with an op protagonist: make an enemy who is just as strong or even stronger. Jujutsu kaisen does this with saturo gojo and sakuna for example, where gojo was so op that his mere birth changed the balance of the world, and then when he and sakuna have their fight sakuna shows that he is almost on the same level of strength as gojo but with far more experience to level out the playing field
This is super valuable! thank you!! I haven't started on my Magic System (s) but I will get there there!!!
i was literally working on this right this second, you couldnt have uploaded at a better time haha
Great channel and video as always. Been using your videos for months to help me in writing my book series, and their overall great (That's what my friends, family, and small fandom say).
Ah, Mistborn, great series. Really loved the magic system in that one.
i'm always amazed at how you manage to make learning fun!
im currently just struggling to stay motivated and intrested in writing my story, after a moment of writing it i get bored and want to play video games instead :(
Very great insight my guy, I was struggling for a bit with my magic system and this gave me some great inspiration and actually gave me the answer to one of my probs so big thanks for that.
I've watched a lot of your videos and they're always well-done! Thanks for all the tips! The accent is nice too!
excellent video. You have earned your self a new subscriber!
(also amazing how successful you are for a man so young!)
Im a tabletop RPG person(35+years GMing), incuding making my own systems - but now Im actually the chief code monkey of a startup game development company. Ill be passing on a link to this channel to the rest of the team and we will be discussing your content in our lore meetups.
For what its worth our setting is one that no longer has magic, it was lost in a disaster - all that remains is alchemy, though there are elements that do not exist IRL which leads to 'magic' like properties of certain minerals.
were hoping to get a table top rules book out before any computer games, but it really is amazing how much work there is to something like this when you sit down and actually DO it.
I have to say that I'm extremely happy to have found this channel because I never feel discouraged or ashamed for anything I write and if there's something I need to change I get motivated to do it, and these videos always stick to how you can improve without it being ridiculing and discouraging. I find there's a huge difference between people who are actually established writers and editors and the fandoms giving advice on what they like and dislike to the writers. They're so condescending and discouraging and seem to expect the writer to write for them and they're confusing because everyone is so focused on what they hate and eventually it's like - is there even a chance to write a good fantasy story since everything is hated after listening to so many opinions? I know you won't be able to write anything which everyone love but the part of handling the hate (because it's not constructive critique) after publishing a book is so scary to me.
First video of yours I have ever seen… I gotta say I really liked it. Thank you for sharing, I’ll definitely be watching more.
surprisingly informative over boosting creativity in a general context
this video reminded me of another video about magic systems and how even the most mundane things could be turned into a magic system.
i had a discussion with a friend afterwards and ended up having to turn baking bread into a magic system...
it was actually surprisingly easy. i made an alchemy/summoning system.
based on real world breads, the types of bread decide the types of beings summoned and their overall characteristics.
certain types of ingredients affect behavior while others potency or add extra abilities.
so a gingerbread man turns into a loyal servant, while a melon bread turns into a hungry monster that tries to eat everything.
different alchemical salt types change aggressiveness, while sugar types their energeticness and overall spell duration, and so on.
it took me not even an hour to get that far, showing just how easy it is to make a creative and unique magic system.
and how much fun it is to bounce stupid ideas with a friend until it works!
First point springs to mind the existence of "Avadra Kadavra" Instant kill spell from Harry Potter with barely any consequence besides being "Evil"
This comment has been brought to you by
_The Best Fight in Harry Potter and why Avada Kedavra is a Stupid Spell.
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Avada Kedavra has always bothered me. Fine, it kills you but how? What does it do? You can easily kill a person by flooding their lungs, freezing their brain, shattering their heart. With your mind set to ending someone, anything can become a weapon. So why do we need a spell that does nothing else but kills? IMO, that was some sloppy writing. On the other hand, I guess no magic system is bulletproof
@@0o0eMthey do give hints that it just takes your life without injury or altering your body.
No? Well, Harry potter is a pretty equal mix of hard magic and soft magic systems, and the AK has many drawbacks
1: It has a long incantation(AVADA KEDAVRA) compared to other spells like Stupefy, which would effectively do the same thing, or Bombarda.
2: It can't be cast non verbally, so you always get a warning
3: it can be blocked by physical things like cover
4: Most importantly, it needs PURE HATRED to work properly. if you don't HATE something from the bottom of your heart, at max it will give them a nosebleed. So other than people like Voldemort, who's been established to be a hateful litlle bitch, its not useable outside a few niche scenarios
5: it weakens/fractures your soul.
6: IDK the consequence of both eternal suffering in Limbo being stuck, not able to pass on when you die, and the consequence of being chucked in with the dementors no questions asked for life is a pretty big consequence.
@@user-gt7vi9jm9m Only hints?
@@normalchannel2185
1. 2. That requires a certain level of experience to dodge even after the warning.
3. They can cast it again.
4. I meant consequence and requirement of being evil.
5. 6. This does not impact a fight these only matter if they are dead.
If there are so many drawbacks, name at least three ways to beat this spell when they start casting it.
Just found out your channel and love your videos! Really helps me out!
...
I might be watching too much of them, though, I'm procrastinating in my writing.
OMG, sir! You are back!!🎉🎉
Props to mentioning Brent Weeks!! One of my absolute favorite authors!!
Wildermyth has a really neat magic system. You can "interfuse" with an object, which connects your spirit to it. What you can do with the object depends on the object in question.
Wooden bookshelves can splinter apart and be launched at people, metal rods can shackle people in place and things like cloth can constrict people.
I've long thought that magic/sci-fi systems where the scope of their capabilities is commensurate with the scope of their requirements are vastly grander, more satisfying, and more impactful compared to those that don't follow that principle. Certainly one can make a brilliant magic system without it, but it's still often a massive help.
That's how I ended up with the system that I have: Its core tenets are that neither power nor ability come from nowhere, and no amount of nobility or goodwill replaces either. The demigods, unfathomably powerful as they are, witness this firsthand as they reflect on the monumental efforts that created them and the monumental efforts they must destroy to safeguard reality.
Really glad I watched this. There is a fantasy story I plan on writing, but when I started thinking about adding a magic system to it, nothing really clicked. Now I realize that is because anything I could come up with wouldn't fit into my Triangle I have planned, or rather it would only check Setting, and not Plot or Character. But there is a plot device I have integral to the story that I can label as a kind of magic, just not a flashy one, since it entirely deals with strictly knowledge and memory. So there is no need for me to add a magic system, since I kinda already have one. It would just be a Buffet situation, as you put it.
Thanks for the video! It really helped me sort out some thoughts I had.
In my writing and my universe, i bring immense power to the table with scale to match. When it comes to antagonistic encounters, for the most part, i abide by the mantra "creativity and strategy" to keep things interesting with the HUGE magickal power scaling i deal with. Unconventionality breeds interest and intrigue
My favorite kind of magic system is one a mix. A hard system that is mysterious so you think it’s soft until to later find out it did actually follow rules. Not sure why, but I love the mystery and love hard systems that appear soft.
I love the hard magics in Name of the Wind, as well, and how they look to us readers in our world of science. Sympathy magic, for example, where the arcanist makes bonds between similar objects to cause some effect. The magic is often powered by a nearby fire or other energy source, but if one isn’t available, you can use your own body as the source. Do that too much however, and you get the Binder’s Chills, which can become debilitating or even fatal. We look at it and say “Yeah, you’re using your body heat, and causing hypothermia if you aren’t careful.”
One magic system I really appreciate is from the Eragon series. With the exception of innately magical being like dragons, the entire magic system is based around the language of magic. You could just say "fire" to make your arrow explode into flames, or you could make figurative connections in your mind to do something like saying "water"->shimmering blue surface-> create a blue gem. A character's skill with magic is just as dependent on how much magic vocabulary they know than their actual magic pools. And while there is a lot of creativity to how magic can be shaped, it does still follow certain rules distance weakens magic (whence why a flaming arrow is better than just snapping a fireball onto your target), the magic needs to be done with intent and planning to not backfire (the protag almost kills himself the first time he casts magic because he didn't know how to shut off the magic and nearly drained himself to death), and more complex spells and enchantments needing to be step by step like programs to run properly. Even beyond casting, magic still is part of the world. While less than a quarter of the population seem to be casters, anyone can be trained to block their minds from mental probing, for instance. And because the language of magic is the language of power, no one can lie when speaking it. While you can find some flaws in characterization or developments in the books, the magic system remains the most fascinating for me almost 20 years later.
the best magic system for me so far.....JoJo, every stand is unique and the author made it extremely creative
Love the reference to Brandon Sanderson & the book recommends!
When my characters are too strong I just make villains that are stronger.
This will lead to a new problem called the ladder villains where you'll have to always make the next bad guy stronger than the last in the long run this will make you first villains look like shit
Frieren. I would enjoy your take on the pacing, magic system, and the “Beyond Journey’s End” approach to telling this high-fantasy story.
Man magic Systems are such a fun thing from a writing perspective
I really like the magic in lord of the mysteries. The more you use them, the closer you get to madness, and mastery of your abilities comes more with dealing with the side effects rather than using the powers themselves
Great vid as always! For me, I explicitly want to avoid writing magical solutions to the problems and conflicts characters face. So I created a system with a few rules:
1. Your magic comes from the gods as a blessing of you following in their footsteps - each god has a different ability that they can grant, to those who follow their teachings.
2. You cannot use your magic as a weapon. If you violate this rule, you WILL lose your magic and will have to add that to everything else you have to account for after you die.
3. The magic enhances your abilities beyond what is naturally possible, but it is not absolute, nor is everyone granted the same level of power.
As a result, only one type of magic is your traditional physical magic (telekinesis, elemental magic, etc.) and that got taken away from everyone for abusing it too much. So instead, the magic that remains enhances one's ability to achieve their personal goals, whether that involve knowledge, self-actualization, or the ability to physically handle the world around them.
There's also medicinal magic and the ability for some to form a bond with an animal - wild or domestic - and have that animal become sapient, for lack of a better term. But as a result, the magic doesn't actually solve people's problems - it gives them what they need to solve them themselves.
I’m currently working on a 5 book series, and my protagonist has one of my favorite powers: Atom Manipulation. Basically, they can rearrange the atoms of anything, and reform it into a material or state of matter they choose. But the biggest drawback they have, is that they can only manipulate what they can touch. Throughout the series, i want him to learn his power from the very beginning, but improve as time moves on. Like in the beginning, he’ll only be able to manipulate things that he directly touches, but by the end, he’ll be able to manipulate an object several yards away. If it’s touching the ground that his feet are standing on, he can control it.
Hey Sounds cool, for claritys sake, do you mean Manipulation of Atomic bonds? So rearranging of the Atoms in an existing Molecule, or the Manipulation of Proton count, basically turning one Element into a different one, for example turning O2 into Fe (Oxygen into Iron)? Or a combination of both.
How Spicy do you intend to go? I mean after all just turning some Water into Hydrogen and Oxygen would be enough to blow a Building Sky High and turning the Nitrogen in the Air into Chlorine Gas would basically make your MC a walking War Chrime. (Not necessarily a Protagonist Move, but maybe?)
Would probably require some proper Control since MC would have to change the Air he breathes back or leave unaffected.
The Ground thing is due to Visualization? Since Air is also full of Atoms I mean, or is it the higher Density of Atoms?
In any case seems to be an Interesting Power with quite a lot of Applications, even peaceful just changing Dirt to Gold would make you an instant Millionaire, and Money is Power after all.
@@Fushur7 Behold!
*turns dirt into gold*
I call this spell... THE Inflation
And this is how entire world economy was shredded in a matter of months, kickstarting new dark age of war and struggle
Jokes aside, neat ability. Only concern is how powerful it can be without any kind of regulation
I love blends of Hard magic and Soft magic. it is the best way (in my opinion) to have a "chosen one" character, you create a "hard system with rigid rules" and then break the shell occasionally letting the reader know that the rules don't necessarily work exactly how you or the people in the story believed, but also keeping things that happened possible with the change in the system. Like peeling a shell off a hard boiled egg.
I plan on writting a story in the future, I thought of making a game, but I find more attractive the idea of making a series.
So I try to learn how to write correctly and may do some trial error stories to improve on abiltiy once I put it at test
Great stuff Jed! I love how you talk about Character-Plot-Setting --> Theme. The theme of my book, The Secret of the Maegi, is a class Divide between the very few people who can use magic and the rest. I explore this through...
Character - It's a love story, and the protagonist is a hyu who is thrust into the wilderness with a mage.
Plot - It's a mystery in that the inciting incident surrounds the possibility that the Divide is contrived by the maegi.
Setting - The two classes are physically divided in their city, and outside their borders, other creatures struggle to survive with even less in the blight.
The first book focuses on the "forbidden romance" and the discovery that it's all contrived, the system designed for those with power to maintain it. The next book will delve into a deeper, "softer," form of the same magic, relating its absence from the maegi's world to their obsession with control and centralization of power.
What do ya'll think?!
Stumbled upon this video and it mostly made me relate to why I love the Wheel of Time so much. The magic system there has so many interesting hooks and rules that all feel part of the world. (Also currently on a reread of that series).
But the video also gave me a few ideas for my LARP character that I'm partially rewriting. I will need to follow some rules because of the game rules. But I have some freedom in how to play them out. So thanks for some insights!
Hi Jed! Well sadly I write in secret from my family, I cant tell them I like to write cause I know they wont see Writing as a real job. So I cant really pay for your classes but I just wanted to tell how greatfull I was to you and your youtube videos. My writing has gotten way better from the first time I started and your videos have helped me so much. I fixed lots of things in my WIP´s and you cant imagine how happy I am. I cant thank you enough. Thank you so much for being there by my side while I go after my secret dream even tho you dont know you are doing it. Thank you
My magic of choice has always been a free control elemental style. Mages can summon and manipulate their element as freely as they want as long as their skill and aptitude is good enough. Makes it fun to come up with combos like using earth and lighting to create a pseudo railgun or covering weapons in magic and using wind to make yourself lighter and more agile.
I love your example of bonding with an element in order to utilise its energy. My own magic system is a more traditional 'pact with the devil' type, with limitations made clear in the early chapters. I never thought of a physical bond with an element, though. Very clever. My idea was a technomancy extension of D&D's clerics getting their powers through faith in their god. I've just been struggling with avoiding the "Terminator" vibe.
One of the most thought-provoking takes on magic I've come across is in Uprooted by Naomi Novik. "The Dragon" tries to teach spells to the main character in an academic way, and she makes little progress. But then, she looks into some notebooks he thinks worthless, which outline a more intuitive form of magic, and this works for her.
This started me thinking... what if magic is like music? You can approach music through theory (a hard system), or you can play by ear (a soft system), or you can bring the two together. And what if casting a spell is like a musical performance, where you being your learning, your years of practice, your raw ability, together in the moment? "Stage fright" might cause the spell to fail. A virtuoso might cast the same spell as a novice, with vastly greater effect, but a very few might work great magic by instinct. Some might be able to improvise spells hitherto unknown, while others spend years creating them.
I just started writing a new book somewhat based on fairytale, so the magic system is softer than what I’ve written before. It’s definitely a challenge, as I don’t like working without super specific rules. Nobody really understands how or why magic works in the world, and it manifests itself in different ways for each person. Difficult to do, but fun
I started watching these videos and got inspired to write my own fantasy novel, and have decided to combine a few elements between hard and soft magic systems. The system isn't really explained to the reader, but an object is required to project the magic. Using too much magic can burn, melt, or even vaporize the object and could even burn or kill the user. The most powerful magic is also not controlled, controlling the magic makes it substantially weaker and the strongest is simply guided in a general direction or use by the user's thoughts but can be unpredictable and may even make the situation worse. Certain objects can also withstand more magic than others, and the magic is purely elemental (aside from healing). There are some other uses and variations to the system that are not explained specifically for plot twists/ better character development later on when they are explained based off of character choice to use or not to use the variations.
One of the most powerful spells I've ever thought of is 'Energy Redirection.' It gives the user the ability to redirect the flow of energy, such as altering its currents, dispersing it, or even condensing it. That may not sound like much, until you take into account how extremely versatile such a power would actually be.
When you This video has given me ideas for my own world I am planning on building
One of my favorite hard magic systems is in Pact. Anyone can potentially become a mage, and the details of each person's magic can be very different, but they are all rooted in a few solid concepts. The main one is that you must always speak the truth or lose the benefits of magic while keeping the dangers. So every mage in the story is always /technically/ telling the truth. Outside of that, the magic can do anything if you can find the right creatures to make a deal with and actually manage to not get trapped in a terrible contract.
So, gonna drop a good example of a magic system here because I love the author. In the DEDA Files series by Yahtzee Croshaw, magic comes from accessing the power of eldritch beings from another dimension, but instead of using Faustian bargains, the magic can either be wielded innately or through runes. If a person has a magic infusion, they can wield magic from a limited pool of options based on what Ancient they are infused by with the additional caveat that if they overuse it they’re at risk of bonding consciousness with the Ancient (though it’s eventually seen as a lifestyle choice to do so). Theoretically anyone can use runes but it’s like instead of evoking one Ancient writing or speaking runes invokes them all, which generally leads to madness. To circumvent this, rune crafters make use of pre-written and pre-recorded rune sequences to essentially code magical effects. It’s an uncannily well-balanced system that allows for many narrative twists and world building opportunities.
I'm currently in the beginning stages of making a story with a magic system partially inspired by My Hero Acadamia. The sloppy buffet problem definitally stood out to me and I should be careful to avoid that due to my world having many different magic types.
I once read a novel in which magic could only be done by a few very special people, but these were so rare and difficult to find that governments and groups stopped looking for them, and instead put resources into developing a way of perform magic in a trained and external way. Centuries later, we hardly hear about natural magicians anymore. The novel showed the pros and cons of both types, with the natural ones being more powerful and the educated ones being more precise. The protagonist was natural, but he lost his powers because of a demon, so he dedicated himself to learning the external method.
Great video ❤
I missed you and your videos😂❤
I made a magic crystal that when used grants powers linked to that crystal (e.g. fire) but also has a chance to weaken the crystal slightly to give the user a perk (positive or neutral or negative) also related to that element. (E.g. fire crystal could give orange hair, heat resistance but also maybe a raise in body temperature)
Babe, wake up! A new Jed Herne video 🤩
Personally even if I haven't finished any writing myself, I think I have a very interesting magic system for a game idea I want to eventually make: There are four sort of grand wizards, each with a mastery over one specific magic: Elemental, Base Magic (aka illusions n magic missile), Holy and Necromatic, and finally Technomancy. These wizards are the ones you go to if you ever want to learn magic, and people in the world typically learn just one as trying to learn more than one gets progressively difficult. The protagonist can only use Elemental magic but can use it in a variety of ways because they specifically need to use materials to cast spells, which allows them to create combo spells unlike regular elementalists.
I have a fun one for my fantasy setting. Light and Seed Sorcery.
Light is the resource for the magic. Little pinpoints of light within the body of the user that augments their physical abilities when focused in parts of the body, such as focusing it into your ears to enhance hearing or balance. They're also connected by threads of light.
The threads of light are the actual resource as the pinpoints can be put into a cycle, forming a circle as the threads build up around the pinpoints spinning. This is called a seed. The seed builds up these threads slowly and can be sped up, but you speed it up too much, and the seed will crack (will get to that in a sec).
Every user has lenses that can be used to color the seed towards specific effects, usually linked to a single word. Most users have between two and four lenses with specific races in setting (sapphire goblins in particular) having more. Additionally, there is mist (foundation for a second magic system but linked to the first one), which can be used as a lens by encircling it in a seed.
Once a seed is formed, it can be cracked to cause the built-up energy to become usable. Then, the mage can use the imbued qualities from the lenses or the mist used in it to create Magix effects. A blank seed, one untouched by a lens or mist, instead supercharges the physical effects of light.
I clicked on this just to see if your advice was "write hard magic". Glad it wasn't. Great advice! Specifically the triangle was on point 👌🏼
One of my favorite magic systems is from Mage Errent. The first book is pretty generic, but all the rest have amazing world building and really creative ways of using magic such as incorporating real life physics and chemistry
I am overwhelmed by the number of numbered lists that sprang out of nowhere in this video.
One of the most unique "magic systems" I enjoyed in fantasy books was how Piers Anthony did it in his Xanth series. He did it right, always making it creative... and *always* serving the story about the characters involved, as well as the overarching worldbuilding.
My absolutely favourite magic system is the one introduced in Patricia A. McKillip's "Alphabet of Thorn". It is a soft-magic system that no one in world really understands. There is a college of wizards who make it their life mission to study and utilize it but even they don't fully understand it. It seems to have to do with writing, with viewinf the world as it is written, but it also involves moments of necromancy, time travelling, and teleportation, things that shouldn't work but the College of Wizards has to admit that it does work and they don't know why.
WONDERFUL ❤!!!
My characters have innate magical abilities but they need extensive training, and depending on how much magic they can maintain in their bodies using magic could drain or kill them. It’s like every magic user is a container, or a valve and if too much magic fills or flows through them they can burst. Their are also laws about how magic can be used, restricting those who haven’t finished their training/earned the right to use magic and restricting certain kinds of magic users. Some of it is based on safety concerns and some of it is fear based and to control certain groups. Also their are certain places where magic can’t be used (different dimensions/out of body experiences).