Why Toranaga Laughs After Blackthorne Gives Him The Swords SHOGUN Episode 5
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- Why Toranaga Laughs After Blackthorne Gives Him The Swords SHOGUN Episode 5, Lord Toranaga's near death experience after a sudden earthquake in Shogun episode 5 "Broken to the Fist" reveals who his closest allies really are.
#Shogun #ShogunEpisode6 #ShogunFX
0:00 intro
01:27 why he laugh
02:13 More Trust In Mariko & Blackthorne
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There's several things going on here. Toranaga is surprised at how "japanese" the offer is in terms of how an ideal vassal should behave (that he should ensure his feudal lord is cared for at all costs). It's also telling that no other person there with a sword did not offer their swords up to Toranaga, because the sword is pretty much literally the soul of a samurai, They would never even think of letting someone else have their swords. It is also a good indicator that Blackthorn understands that because he is not samurai that he can get away with giving his swords to Toranaga because with him being a barbarian noone will really care that he is going around unarmed and thus no accompanying loss of face for him. Also Toranaga is impressed that even in the middle of a completely terrifying series of events that Blackthorn kept his cool, did what was needed, and then went that extra bit above and beyond and did exactly the right thing that both showed complete loyalty and friendship and respect, and did it in a selfless manner with clearly no expectation of reward. If you read the books, you see that toranaga is impressed by how unpredictable Blackthorn is, and how full of contradictions he is to the japanese mind. Hes both amazingly brave and clever, and at the same time innocent and niave to them. As such they see him as having all the greatest potentials that a samurai can have, loyal, brave, selfless, but tempered with kindness. The laugh is kinda "there you go again Anjin-san, you keep exceeding my expectations and surprising me with what a great guy you are"
Awesome insight!
Think this is a better insight
Also, the irony behind the daisho offered (long and short) which belong to Fuji-sama's grandfather who begged for mercy instead of facing an "honorable" death. However, any swords is better than no swords especially for a leader.
@@gld1010 But his swords were lost. So, I wonder if Toranaga also knows that they're the $100.00 daisho that Mariko picked up in a pawn shop to give to Fuji? ;)
@@grailchaser I bet he does or he would have just bowed and look impressed like he did after he laughed. He was laughing at the irony of it all.
The entire Shōgun landslide sequence kills, but Toranaga’s face when he realizes who just saved his life by prying him out of an early raw burial in the sunken, still-roiling earth (and his following sword laughter) is *sublime*
It was a lauered laugh. He laughed at the Irony of gettit those swords and the history behind it. And he also laughed just as a relief and thankfulness for being alive. Even though I inew he wasnt gonna die because I know his story,at that moment Inrelley felt like he was gonna die even knowing this Stuff kike this makes great television.
He laughed because he knew where those swords came from right????
I think that was one of several reasons why he laughed. Also he was laughing at just the irony of him receiving those swords ,and also he laughed just because he survived. He literally almost died and sonetimes when you come that close to death you just laugh as a relief.
consider the irony of being saved without loss of face... because of the barbarian of all people
I was also thinking what @tyizzle80....was thinking😮😮😮😮😮.........
Thinking the same
@@redswingline262 The same barbarian who clowned himself to enable Toranaga to escape from Osaka Castle. (Anjin-San's shtick was even considerably more outrageous and "crazy" in the 1980 series.)
The people behind the giving of the swords scene really did their homework about feudal Japan, Samurai and Daimyo Are Honor bound to always be armed, No exceptions. By Blackthorn giving Lord Toranaga his swords, Lord Toranaga's Honor would remain unstained, regardless of why. Blackthorn was not yet a Samurai, so not being armed is not a crime of dishonor.
Maybe they just read the book...or the original mini series. If Blackthorn is allowed to wear the two swords then he is already samurai.
There are multiple meanings behind the symbolism behind Toranaga's laughter after Blackthorne gave his sword:
1) The laughter could symbolize the irony of Toranaga receiving the sword from a "barbarian" and that the sword used to belong to a "coward". Him receiving the sword could indicate himself (Toranaga) as also a coward for hiding from Ishido inside Izu. Thus the gods tried to punish him.
2) It could also symbolize joy for Blackthorn at this point has saved Toranaga 3 times already at this point of the story. It could mean that "the gods" has sent Blackthorn to Toranaga to serve as his "shield" and "an arrow" against his enemies. Spoiler: In the book, Blackthorne is regarded as a being similar to Toranaga's pet Falcon.
3) It could also mean clarity for Toranaga as he saw who were the first ones to rush to his rescue. This includes his son Nagakado.
4) It's also an added card for Toranaga to exploit as he can reprimand his people that a "barbarian" is more samurai that his own samurai. Spoiler: In the book, Yabu regrets not thinking of offering his sword immediately to Toranaga when the earthquake happened. He later ordered his men to search for Toranaga's buried sword and gives it back to Toranaga.
@@brianpeck4035 nope, as Hatamoto he has the right to go armed, but not the requirement that he do so like a samurai does. But there's a huge difference between having the right to carry arms, and being samurai which pretty much requires that they have weapons on hand at all times. At this point, Blackthorn is not yet Samurai, so he can give his swords to Toranaga without huge loss of face.
@@brianpeck4035 Not quite. He wore the swords as a hatamoto -- a prestigious advisor or ally -- but he will be promoted to samurai too, and soon.
Blackthorne is Hatamoto. That makes him Samurai. The laws at the time forbade (according to the book) anyone but samurai to be armed. However, although this disarms Blackthorne, giving his swords to Toranaga would be a massive honour and give him great face as Toranaga is technically his liege lord and would retain his honour because of Blackthornes gift.
His laughter was the highlight of this episode, sooo fkn meaningfull
On rewatching, I noticed that the camera cuts to Mariko after T accepts the swords and thanks the Anjin. She is too moved to speak and is on the verge of tears. What was disgraced now has new value. This is a metaphor for her own life - we find out that she is in a living death and sees no way out. But John's actions help her understand his Western rejection of fatalism and that she, too, can hope in making her life her own.
There's that mispronunciation of Yabushige again. So annoying.
To me the "garden" ending was the highlight of the episode. Mirroring the beginning, closing the Gardener incident, emphasing the Anjin's change of heart regarding his stay in Japan... Just cool, efficient, tasteful stuff.
Great observation
Shōgun is becoming the gold standard of limited series for me. Immense storytelling, I actively look forward to every Tuesday because of the new episode drop
I think Mariko saying that Uejiro was sick and sacrificed himself to have an honorable death is another "manufactured story" that fits so well with the theme of this episode. Hats off they fucking
Actually, Uejiro's illness was a holdover from the original novel. They just have to compress the story so much to fit the time they are allowed for the TV series. Really enjoying this show.
Truthfully, Uejiro acted knowingly. He was in truth, old and ill. It was his action freely taken with full knowledge of the consequences. An honorable choice for someone with very few options in life.
If you read he novel, the gardener was complaining about stomach aches for a while. He went out in an honorable way.
Ummmm... He laughed because he knew the swords were worth only 3 cups of rice. But he took them, so now they're priceless....
Shōgun easily stands out as the best thing I've watched in quite some time. I've been Dealing With Things™ for some time now, and this show is so engaging that it's the only thing that lets me fully shut out the annoying part of my brain and just enjoy myself. Phenomenal!
Value has nothing to do with how much something costs, but rather with the meaning associated with it. When Fuji gave the swords to Blackthorne, it was out of respect and gratitude and so the swords were worth much more than the three sacks of rice. And when Blackthorne presented them to Toranage as a formal restoration of his honor and a sign of respect, the swords were more than worthy of a noble in their significance
Finally. Someone nailed it.
He sees the irony.
Fuji Sama's swords, believed to be her father's battle honors, were actually bought by her grandfather from a samurai for three bags of rice to conceal her father's cowardice.
Is that why Toranaga laughed?🫣 Honor them atleast for Fuji
samurai swords still
Tornaga laughed for a few reasons.. For one he knew how below his status those swords are but they are better than no swords. He also knows the story behind them and finds irony compared to his current situation in the world.
Sometimes you just have no words.
The episode reveals the origins of the swords, which initially held no real value as Fujisama thought they did. However, it also delves into the Japanese cultural belief that value can be ascribed through actions, words, and deeds to something or someone. Consequently, although the swords were merely purchased from a ronin, they gained significance by being presented to Toranaga. It remains ambiguous whether Toranaga's smile was due to an awareness of the swords' origins, gratitude towards Blackthorne for saving his life again, or simply the joy of survival.
Blackthorne would NOT be better off with Toranaga's death. if he dies, Blackthorne loses his protection from the Portuguese
Infact. Toranaga is the only daimyo that has an interest in not killing him. Had Toranaga died, Blackthorne would have been in the hands of his son, that's easily manipulated by Yabushige.
@@neutronalchemist3241after that talk his father had with him about being manipulated, that might not fly. He would have to grow up real fast and he might realize how true his father's words were about not trusting anyone fully
If you read the book, you learn why he laughs. He laughs because he almost died but escaped. In Japanese culture, where death is considered common, if you can avoid it, you laugh at it.
As to Toranaga's relationship with Blackthorne, near the end of the book, Toranaga admits that he wants Blackthorne around because Blackthorne is his friend.
Blackthorne's hastening to dig Toranaga out of the earth should not be over interpreted. We are dealing with fictional characters here, but I see it as just one human being trying to help another in an emergency. I suspect anyone would do the same in a similar situation.
I love this show. Always waiting an extra day for the English version. I am watching the after podcast and it really puts things I to perspective. Like the swords that he gave once he rescued him were. once Fuji's and had no meaning but now they have meaning. Lots of meaning.
I love the content but I hate these AI Bots that talk because I want to hear peoples personal reaction to the show and their interpretation. His robotic tone just take away feom the content. Now if this was a science video and he was talking like that I wouldnt mind because its all about the Science not personality or personal feelings so it appropriate. But for vieeos like this especially short as these mqn just use your own voice.
Finally someone else that thinks the same way about AI voice overs. I only subscribe to channels where its a human being narrating.
He would have been a fool to let Toranaga die. If Toranaga dies and he can leave Japan, Blackthorn is a dead man. If we're him, I would do whatever I could in support of his efforts.
I think that it was for two reasons: the irony and being saved by a barbarian, not once, but twice.
Why irony? What if he had killed him, which could have when they first met?
Aye true but cause of the butterfly effect it's highly unlikely that he would find himself at the same place at the same time if he had killed John (infact it is practically impossible) He also mentioned that John and his bargaining chip with the cannons where essential to his plans and it's not guaranteed that Toronaga would've ever left Osaka alive had it not been for John, so they kinda saved eachother. No i rather think the laughter was because the swords before John got them belonged to a dishonorable liar who got the swords through gambling, which Toronaga was likely fully aware of.
The last sentence is just beautifully observed at 4:39 "Him walking away from Mariko and Blackthorn actually putting him in a compromising position that almost led to his death."
I'm Japanese and it must be several reasons that Toranaga was laugh.
One of the reasons that Toranaga laugh is because of Black Thone's big gap.
Before earthquaking, Black Thone was so selfish (from Toranaga scope) because the gardener had been died because of Black Thone's word. But, after earthquaking Black Thone was helping Toranaga faster than anyone else also he gaved his ows KATANA for Toranaga.
For Samurai, Katana is sometimes worth than their own life.
So Toranaga was laughing the selfish boy clearly understood what is worth for Toranaga and giving the worth to him.
So Toranga laughed big gap of Black Thone's attitude before earthquake and after earthquake I guess.
Makes sense, He believed Blackthorn to be a selfish Barbarian, a useful Selfish Barbarian but still untrustworthy, then the man he had dismissed not only saved his life but gave up his swords without even prompting so that he wouldn’t face the dishonor of being seen without a Katana at his side, add in the shock and that realization must have been the funniest thing he could have thought of.
He gave him the swords because Toranaga’s were lost in the earthquake and it was unthinkable that a Shogun be without his swords. In the book Blackthorn uses the word that means “nothing could be done” or something similar and Toronaga bursts into a stream of cursing against it. Blackthorn opens his robes and pisses into the crevice Toronaga almost died in. Toronaga starts laughing and follows his example.
In the book toronaga accepted the sword gladly... a samurai cannot be without his sword and anjin giving him his sword prevents him from losing face... in the book this was pointed out by toronaga... thats why he gave anjin a very excellent sword in exchange..
Offering swords to a Daimyo can be considered an offence, as implying that he can't defend himself, for me laughed because he felt that despite he knew that the Anjin didn't knew that was insulting
This was a great episode
Also, Torunaga knows that *these* swords have a fake history so its ironic they came back to him!
In the show, he laughs because, per Mariko, everyone knows those swords are low quality, but it is right for a vassal to offer them in that situation. In the book, the quality of the swords Fujiko-san gives to Anjin-San is never discussed. Both Toranaga and the Anjin laugh after to earthquake for the sheer joy of being alive. In the book, Toranaga makes it perfectly clear that he has always valued the Anjin-san, for many reasons. As for Mariko, it is on the day of the earthquake that she tells me her plans for Osaka.
No, the reason why he laughed was he was surprised that the foreigner that he was using as a mere distraction, had armed to promote the distraction's effect, and did not HIMSELF rate very highly, did not HIMSELF consider a real "Samurai" * had actually thought quicker, and more purely AS Samurai, than any of the men born to the role.
* The word literally means Servant or more exactly in context with the contemporary European word, Servitor. It is the noun of the verb saburau, which means "To serve". And the Samurai had duties, and no one had to say "Do this, do that" they spent their life watching for the chance to serve their Lord.
Drag him from the earth, give him back lifes-breath, the INSTANT he may need them because he has gained control of himself, put your own sword in his hand.
The only thing he did "wrong" was it should have been done with a profoundly bowed head from the moment Anjin-san laid his hand on his sword in the presence of his Master, then the bow held for an instant after relinquishing the weapons.
I think it’s because Toranaga was the one who ordered the original owner of the swords death.
He was laughing because he knew the story behind the swords given.
I thought he was laughing because he knew the back story on the swords.
Everyone thinks exactly that except the author of this video.
Wow. I didn't make that connection about how Toranaga walking away from the discussion put himself in a compromising position. If Toranaga had stayed and attempted to mediate he would have been safer. Very astute
Also took those swords. How did you even post the clip a day ago, I thought it came out tonight?? That’s a whole spoiler, glad I saw this after seeing the episode😩😩
I was a student of Japanese History when I read Shogun. I remember thinking that I would have preferred that Louis L'Amour was the Author. Oh Well... I looovvved the book. Didn't care for the Dr Kildare movie version.
another reason lord toranaga laughs because he thought this would be any enemy chance to kill him...then blackthorne gives lord toranaga his swords so lord toranaga laugh thinking you all had your chance to kill me since i do not have my swords...
He laughed because theres no need for a sword if youre eating dust
When the gardener is executed, you mean?
The movie doesn’t portray well the peril that Blackthorn places himself in the rescue of Toranaga. The ground is unstable and the quake can resume. This is more clear in the Book. , later Toranaga’s own swords are recovered but damaged beyond repair.
Somewhat off topic but can some explain to me why Toranaga condemned his son for killing the one dude but told other guy it was brilliant? That confused me.
Because toranaga’s son was manipulated into attacking first. He’s was broken by another man’s fist. Toranaga finds out it was yabushige’s nephew who manipulated him. So toranaga rewards the nephew with the cannon regiment as a means to disrupt his relationship with his uncle. Thats what I believe, Not entirely sure.
@@Berserker190 You are correct. This kind of tactics is used a lot during China own civil war in the year 100s.
Can someone tell me what they’re looking at at the very end? Just the aftermath of the landslide?
Part of the encamped army was wiped out.
@@Jayzilla-jr4fr NOOOOOOOOO
The land slide took out part of Toranaga's army. Now he will have to improvise, somehow.
Toranaga, like with his falcons, is training Blackthorne (and Mariko); episode 5, the Falcon scene illustrates Toranaga's M.O in how he crafts people to be his weapons. Toranaga is moved to humor because a random event--the earthquake--did more to bring Anjin to Toranaga's beck and call than anything else.
Tonaraga is a player, 😂😂😂😂
He laughed cuz he knew they were worthless. As had just been revealed to Blackthorn prior.
Exactly that 💪😎
What do you mean by 'worthless?" If they cut they're not worthless.
@@Slapdash1 Just by their background story as you may or may not know 😉
@@stylian6805But that doesn't make them worthless. Also: NOW they've become precious. They're no longer the swords Fujiko's father bought off a ronin, but have become the swords the civilised barbarian offered to Lord Toranaga after saving his life etc.
@Slapdash1 Maybe yes you are right 😉
The synth voice cannot pronounce Lady Mariko's name correctly. It's Ma-ree-ko. Not Marie-ko. Ugh.
5 minutes to say the reason he laughs is because they're friends...waste of time. Get your money dude 👊
Hes laughing at the irony of the worthless swords are now valuable since they're better than nothing.
sooo why heee lauuughed???????
This version is such a travesty on so many levels, not the least of which is its aspiring to be a video game.
Blacktorne can count himself dead the moment Toranaga dies.
Toranaga is Blackthorne's only protection.
Toranaga laughs because he knew the story of the swords.
Also Blackthorne imagined he knew. That's why he specified from where they came. So to not be said to have hidden it.
Not that there was something dishonorable in the swords themselves. A famed warrior can pick from the ground the blade of a coward that fled, and make a famed sword out of it. Toranaga only found funny the way a pair of swords sold by a ronin for a bunch of rice had became the daishō of a powerful Daimyo.
Is it a covert love affair? It doesn't seem like they're playing that angle much at all.
Blackthorne is "not explicitly religious", that's why he demonstrates a strong moral code and his morality is genuine.
why he raugh?
Rhy not. Is good to raugh.
@@DrCruel you remon
He laughed because:
1. He knows the origin of the swords.
2. Because of all the people loyal to him - the only one he can truly trust is the barbarian that isn't loyal or japanese. It was a FML type laugh - e.g this is how bad things have gotten.
Repetitive analysis