What's up with Time in Gensokyo?
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- čas přidán 3. 12. 2020
- Now for a subject that I've been pondering for a long time...no pun intended, what's going on with time in Gensokyo? Some can manipulate it, but in the first place, it seems pretty messy! So let's try to make sense of it!
Hopefully you'll enjoy the...answer if there is even one! #touhou #東方
In any case, thank you for watching and I hope to see you next time!
Sources used for the video:
- en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensok...
- en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Catego...
- katelore.com/telling-time-hei...
- simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi...
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twiligh...
- www.timeanddate.com/sun/japan...
If you have some time, please make sure to check out Quarium who made the Iku portraits!
- / quariumarts
And also check out Prismriver Orchestra's channel who made one of the music you can hear in the video!
- / @prismriverorchestra440
Special thanks to baba seimaijo and dairi for the character portraits used throughout the video!
This video contains characters and elements from the Touhou Project franchise, all rights go towards Team Shanghai Alice (上海アリス幻樂団) and ZUN himself.
© Team Shanghai Alice - Hry
Time is one of the weirdest concepts in Gensokyo. They should make a game about that.
*Wait a minute*
I see the joke here, wait a minute
Which game covered time again? I keep thinking Imperishable Night, but that was more of an endless night and not time itself. Unless we're talking about Sakuya?
@@nekoprankster2184 Yes.
@@nekoprankster2184 Yeah IM has a time system which mostly matters for continues
Zun:
wait we have time in Gensokyo?
True, he probably didn't think that far. 😅
@@Surnist you know ,we celebrated new year using the lunar calendar ,
@@dadaeeaeeadada3301 Đồng chí!
@@d1tc0nm3m4y ah fuck, I got found out
He was too drunk to know
In Japan, times past midnight are sometimes counted past 24 hours. This is especially common for late night venues, events, or programs.
Why did Marisa running to the camera trigger my fight or flight reaction
How does time work?
A difficult question indeed but one thing is for sure:
It's always lunatic time. -Clownpiece, probably.
Forgot about that, now I need to do the video all over again! 😔
Nobody ever ages despite everygame had atleast 5-12 months and shown in the various official mangas they had *multiple* flower viewings.... reimu and marisa should be on their late 30s by now and they look as fresh as a fairy
Well, it's well known that Japanese woman do not age. So I guess Reimu and Marisa won't age at all. 😀
@@Surnist So all Japanese people are like Hirohiko Araki ? Damn...
The only one in gensokyo who would be stopping age would be Kaguya
That’s my canon
She is altering the passing of time for everyone
@@Surnist Until they hit menopause at least. I wonder what that means for Yukari?
Yep. They are around 15-16 in physically and mentally.
One answer. Gensokyo is timeless.
nah, just Sakuya screwing up with it...like usual
@@Mima_the_vengeful_spirit Sakuya doesn't stop time, she just moves very *F A S T*
@Dung Tran Quang source on where ZUN said that? WaHH specifically stated that Sakuya doesn't stop time, her ability allows her to move at the speed of light
@Dung Tran Quang SSiB had vague details about their abilities plus WaHH is the most up-to-date spin-off/information of the series. Sakuya manipulating time is just a fanon thing
@Dung Tran Quang Like I said, I only state my sources on the most recent canon accordingly, which in this case, the manga spin-offs.
This might not be relevant but Japanese sometimes extend the 24h system to 30h informally.
For example, 2300 4th Dec to 0100 5th Dec may be written as 2300 to 2500 4th Dec.
I guess that reduces chances of confusion.
That might explain why they wrote it that way in IaMP, but that's still a bit weird to just write time three different ways across two games. 😅
My head-canon is that Gensokyo takes the phrase "time is relative"" a little more literally than the outside world, in that peoples perception of time's passage has a very real effect on how time passes.
"Whats the deal with time in Gensokyo"
*laughter track*
*Seinfield theme starts playing*
*more laughter*
*thunderous applause*
*person collapses*
Oh man your editing is godly !
6:43 Well, Yukari is one of Gensokyo's founders. And a proud old lady. She's been around over twice as long as Gensokyo! (And may be from the future...)
Wow, this was surprisingly fascinating about a topic that never even crossed my mind! I would love to know more. One thing that I thought of when I saw the title of the video, was the aging process in Touhou. According to ZUN (can't remember which interview, but I heard this secondhand from MagiFTW), Reimu and Marisa age like Ash Ketchum, but Akyuu seems to get older? Especially when the events in Touhou are happening parallel to our own world. Really weird. What do you think?
Well, I assume ZUN just goes by the rule of "it just works". There's time that goes by but the inhabitants don't actually age.
If Akyuu really does age though, that means she will die soon in the timeline of Gensokyo, unfortunately.
But it's true that it'd be weird for them to not age while people in the outside world do.
@@Surnist it’s one of those annoying things that have no in-universe explanation, and you’re just expected to ignore it.
Not too hard to do in a very comical and whimsical series like spongebob, harder to do in a more story-based series like Pokémon and Touhou.
About the "7th hour" that Reimu said, I found one of the translated version also noted that it's another time system during Edo period, called "不定時法". It means the time was not exactly divided into 12 hour and seems quite complicated haha. The first picture of this source: www.gakken.co.jp/kagakusouken/spread/oedo/03/kaisetsu1.html exactly shows that the 7th hour is roughly 4pm~
Maybe this time system will make sense and more reasonable.
Your videos are so well researched! Ive never even thought about the time in gensokyo before.
Thanks, though it's mostly because...it's a weird subject. Early Touhou can be a bit of a mess sometimes. 😅
great explanations as always Mr. Surnist now i might reconsidering my new year special episode to March
I mean, you should take all the time you need for that special episode, it doesn't forcefully need to land on the New Year. 🙂
Wow i didn't know anything about how time was in touhou until now. Th amount of information you gave out was really interesting. Keep up the amazing work!
Really enjoyed this Time theory! I would love to see some day some videos about the different worlds (outside, real, dream) and how everything came to be.
True, it could be interesting but I'm not sure there's enough info about all of this to make sure I can answer all of the questions that come with it. 😅
Wow!!
This is amazingly well made!!!
The narration and editing were very epic!!
Oh my god, I have never seen editing this great before, fantastic job!
Interesting video! I also really like the editing, keep up the good work!
Your videos are very well edited, top quality
man i wanna suscribe you need more subs you are so good doing analysis.
I love the way you explain stuff
Wonderful editing
great video!
Very interesting topic and short essay :) the graphics going so fast dazzle me a little but even so your editing it's really good!
it is actually quite common in japan overall to denote times from 0:00-6:00 as 25:00-30:00 as thats usually more approiate for business to use to denote that continuity and not mess with the jump of 24:00-0:00 all the time, wikipedia has a nice explaination here: ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/30時間制
so i am not sure if zun had any deeper intention about that part and instead followed the usual japanese convention there.
No idea if ZUN wanted to do something more with it, but that's very nifty, though I wonder why they use that logic in the first place...perhaps it has something to do with history. In any case, even with the 30 hour shift, Remilia still states the right hours in the dialogue, so both explanations actually work.
Don't know how that's possible, though. 😅
Thank you for the explaination!
( 6:47 ) “ The flow of time is rather convoluted ”
I never know gensoyo time thats great vid !
sympa à voir comme d'habitude et j'aime bien les nouveaux sprite de Iku que tu utilise, j'ai pas regardé la précédente vidéo pour ne rien savoir du 17.5 avant sa sortie complête
j'avoue que ça m'avait toujours paru bizarre l'affichage du temps dans le 7.5, donc merci d'avoir pris ton temps pour nous expliquer tout ça
un peu dur à comprendre sans tes sous-titre, mais je fais avec et ce n'est pas trop complexe malgré mon faible niveau d'anglais
There are so much things i still have to learn about Gensokyo.
I wonder if i someday will be able to go in a vacation in there.
The editing in this is top notch.
Finally someone deciding to analise the in universe aspects of Touhou Project, next time do a video about Gensokyou's economy.
oooooo so cool your editinnnng
When I saw the video title I was thinking more along the lines of the time as in the flow of time overall, which would affect things like characters age.
This plays well with an idea I had while watching the video that you didn't cover, what if a day wasn't 24 earth hours there? The days could be longer or shorter sort of like how different planets in our solar system have different rotation speeds. From my understanding, Gensokyo is sealed off in a realm that is sorta Earth but also not entirely quite so.
Another thing that sprouts from this idea is what if the passage of time is actually different there too? Like the "One minute here is one hour on Earth" fantasy trope, like how time supposedly slows down near black holes, which also has a special boundary (of no escape) sorta like how Gensokyo do, what if the other side of a black hole leads to Gensokyo, now wouldn't that be something.
As a final note, I'd like to express some appreciation for the high video quality and frame rate, combined with the characters popping up and their lively personalities, it really does make for quite a memorable viewing experience.
Thanks a lot for your feedback, it really means a lot to me! Though as for the theories, some people have told me that in Japan, it's a common occurence to count late hours as a continuation of the normal day, all up to 6 AM.
That way, night businesses can count up to 30h instead and make it less confusing. When it gets to the 30th hour, it basically goes back to 6AM instead.
And for Immaterial and Missing Power, it does make sense since the incident can be pretty much summarized by: "People gathering together to drink because of a Japanese Goblin".
@@Surnist Did a bit of reading up after commenting and came across the 30 hour clock too, think its very cool and fits the eastern theme of the series a lot. The blackhole concept was pretty fun to imagine too, would be unlikely for that idea to come to mind without your video to spark it.
My feedback means a lot to you and your video ideas mean a lot to me, isn't that just lovely.
Really good video and concept. Also, another thing to have in mind is that concepts like nature depend on creatures in Gensokyo, so maybe time is a bit irrational because it is not as constant as it might seem. But we will most likely never know for sure
True, time can be a really weird subject seeing how it can even be manipulated by some people but ZUN always leaves a bit of mystery around these areas, so it's not easy to know for sure how it works unfortunately.
Thanks, I've been wondering for years why the times were so weird in the fighting games.
Time is convoluted on Gensokyo
Love the character matches to the Chinese Zodiacs at 3:31, it wasn’t technically necessary but it was very nice touch(even if it was probably just a setup to calling Sanae a pig)
This video need more views and like!
Now I'm interested.
Miss you Surnist
Should have had Kotohime as the pig, since she calls herself a cop.
I don't really see the link between a cop and a pig, though...
I forgot this channel existed I-
I think you should do this type of video for the origins of how and when gensokyo was created and formed in my opinion.
Guess it could be fun, but the issue is that I'm not sure there are enough info about that.
Surnist oh okay I understand I was just curious because I legitimately don’t know how and when gensokyo was formed.
Well now that I know where gensokyo is roughly located I am going to visit the area sometime in the distant future
"The flow of time itself is convoluted."
-A Certain Sun Praiser
and finnaly the hour of the pig lmao
nice
if half an hour was added on at the hakurei shrine and a full hour was taken away at the human village, the answer would be that there are no clocks in gensokyo.
except for sakuyas pocket watch that eosd 5th stage music suggests, altough that wouldnt be relieable to keep track of time which sakuya messes everytime someone breathes
Man, what editing software are you using for the smooth editing (stuff like bouncing words and images as the go into place)?
Mine just cannot do that even if I tried.
Good video btw
Not using anything outside of Sony Vegas, all of it is done manually with keyframes. 😄
@@Surnist I was gonna say "I can do it if I did it frame by frame, but that's insane."
Clearly you are indeed insane
I see this has reached ky recommend
Aahhh yes
*THE HOUR OF THE RABBIT*
I didn't understand any of that but good vid :]
7:00 Yea
There's so much s*** happening the screen that I don't know what to look at. I've only seen this type of editing in Touhou videos in music videos and shitposts. Very good job.
Can't believe I haven't watched this earlier.
I've been confused about it and I'm glad someone took some time on this
I wonder tho : Do human protagonists(Reimu, Marisa etc.) age with each game's release, tho? Like is Reimu literally in 20s by now? Or the timeline of the games don't follow the timeflow of the _actual_ world?
You see this is actually the plot for the future game where there's an entity who can control time cycle in gensokyou.
I thought you were going to talk about how time passes relative to the outside world. For instance, Akyuu seems to age in real time, but Reimu and Marisa don't at all. I've always wondered about that. This was interesting though, I didn't know about the old Japanese time measurement.
"And umm... talking about the significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time... So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time in terms of what we need to do to lay these wires, what we need to do to create these jobs... And there is such great significance to the passage of time when you think of a day in the life of our children."
- an unnamed sage of the Outside World
I really want to know why Sanae is shown while mentioning the hour of the pig!😅
Do you know what would happen if I dated doremy?
It would be a **baahd relationsheep**
As an asian I have no problem understanding the time system used in the Gensokyo world. I see the 12-hour system being used a lot in movies depicting ancient Chinese dynasties, and it is quite similar to the ancient Japanese time system, except with slightly different names.
@油猴 yeah, thanks
Great editing. Could use a bigger font size tho
Gonna try to make the titles a bit bigger, but the bigger it is, the less words I can put in there.
I'll admit that some texts can be a bit small though. Sorry about that. 😅
What did I just watch? Holy shait...
so i actually got a theory for the daybreak start, basically since the region was always a youkai ground its fairly possible no messengers were sent(or simply didnt arrive) there to announce the change to midnight
kinda expected Sakuya to appear, id really love to see your take on her, considering how weird her time manipulation is(i say manipulation because its fairly obvious its not a full on stop, stuff doesnt keep momentum without time)
and lastly, yeah i agree with miss Sanae here, why is she the pig, that was pretty rude
Nope, actually the daybreak start was a real life thing before the 24 hour system came in, not just in Gensokyo. That also means that people had to adjust clocks way more than we do now. But when it was changed, it was changed all over Japan.
Though it's true that Sakuya could've appeared, I tried to keep it simple because time manipulation is a complete different mess. 😅
As for the pig joke well...let's just say that the "Sanae is a good girl" joke was in my mind at the time.
About the 28 hours thing: i don't know if it has something to do with it, but Japanese tv refers to midnight times not with 2 am but 26:00, and this go on until 7am, when the time resets.
I don't think it is that, as otherwise it would not go over 26:00, but some people in the comments have told me that businesses that open at night usually count the hours up until 30:00h to not get confused between morning and afternoon.
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/30%E6%99%82%E9%96%93%E5%88%B6
So I think this one is more plausible.
@@Surnist Well, the system used in televisions is this one you sent, I just got the wrong hour.
Can confirm, time is confusing.
Basically people who play with danmaku in canon will never die?
if reimu used the summer time for dawn itd be the 7th hour, reimu just might not actuallyknow when dawn or dusk is.
japanese tv is scheduled over 24 hours so it just seems natural to continue over till she sleeps, also avoids a weird break at midnight
Time is just a concept made by corporation to sell clock
Still awkward how character never age :D
Between volume 1-6 of WahH are between 2-3 years
idk what hour its but...ITS LUNATIC TIME.(clownpiece)
how the fuck does surnist only have 7.5k subs what
Nice job , surnist
6:41 simple:
Although the Great Hakurei Barrier was created in 1885, the Youkai Expansion Project started a long time before that. By the time they changed the hour system, Gensokyo must’ve been pretty isolated anyways, just not completely separated.
Also, preservation of the classical Japanese culture was one of the purposes behind Gensokyo’s creation, so it makes sense that they wouldn’t use the modern western hour system.
stands
oh
They are mad.
They not only use 12 hour clock but they also use MM/DD/YYYY format.
Wait...that's not Gensokyo.
That's...that's bullcrap!
Time as always been a thing that confuses me when it comes to touhou.... I can only presume that other people would think the same....
ZA WARUDO, OVA HEAVENNNNN!!!!
I think they still use the system because of Gensokyo's concept of embracing everything that was forgotten in the outside world. This is the explanation given to why magic, divine powers, pseudoscience and etc work inside Gensokyo. Once the outside world believes something again, it's pushed out of Gensokyo, like when the Zashiki Warashi started vanishing reluctantly because people from the outside world started praying for them again (WaHH chapter 14). So if the outside world uses the 24 hour system, it would be reasonable if Gensokyo used the forgotten one used before
If it starts at daybreak, and you count 7 hours, and it's still only 5PM, not 4PM, isn't it possible they're using Daylight Savings Time type stuff. That would make it 4PM instead of 5PM in that case. And it kind of makes sense, since I (a person that lives in a part of the world that is currently using something like that) think it's incredibly outdated, and they're already using a really old time system. I don't know if they have that sort of thing in Japan, or have ever had that sort of thing in Japan, but since Touhou loves to combine the east and the west, it kind of makes perfect sense.
Maybe reiki was like 12 in EoSD and now is 18? Or she is the ETERNAL SHIRINE MAIDEN... Marisa maybe is using some rejuvenation magic
For me... why night must start quite early?... I thought Gensokyo, since it is from japan, has to follow the same time things like the rest of japan... BUT this also makes me wonder... at what hour could Sumi be into japan since... she’s asleep? Since, sleeping takes between 8 or 10 hours, and it’s occurs during nighttime... soo while sumi's asleep, she could ended up awake at the hour of the night while everyone in Gensokyo (except for some nocturnal youkai) are sleeping, right?..
Also I think it's important to note that Reimu in that chapter thinks it's the 7th hour, that doesn't necessarily mean it was actually the 7th hour and because Reimu obviously has no time measuring devices, she's only capable of making guesses so I do think you should take that into an account and don't treat is as verified information it's actually a huge error people make just because it is written down it does not mean it's factual, because characters themselves might either not know the answer and are guessing or purposely avoid telling the truth and even the author in an interview might not be completely honest because it would spoil a bigger narrative , so it is safe to assume it was already the 8th hour actually, and the girls weren't able to precisely tell the time.
This is the reason why I went with "speculation" in the first place, since Reimu believed it was the 7th hour.
However, there are still a couple of facts, those being the fact that it was too dark and lamps were needed in that situation, hence why I went with the location and the 2016 Sun Dial of the region to see if this was possible.
And since the scene happens in Winter, it's possible for the sky to be dark at that time, even without the help of a snowstorm.
So going with Reimu's assumption isn't forcefully correct but it's not forcefully wrong either, but it's one of the only instances where time is discussed that way, so I had to go with it.
Thank you, for informing me it's pronounced "Hey-an". I've been pronouncing it "Hi-an" all this time.
I always did it like hey-an
And i tried say hi-an and felt so wrong
I can't believe you've been doing it like that D:
so...... why are there no buses in gensokyo?
Think the reason why Gensokyo specifically, still use this old Japanese time format-thingie its because of the very fact, *ITS* Gensokyo.
Lot's of old, outdated, ancient and sometimes legends wind up in Gensokyo for some reason. Like old timey TVs from Rinnosuke, and even Flip Phones from the tengus.
*Dunno heads empty, cant think*
While it's true that Gensokyo is full of old stuff, let's not forget that more recent things like a Nuclear reactor or even a Game Boy are also over there.
So saying that they use it simply because it's old isn't exactly right, otherwise they wouldn't understand more recent things.
Aight you got me there
*_how did i forgot our nuclear bird_*
Here I came to understand how ti me works in gensokyo, thank you
NO, I DID NOT FUCKING UNDERSTAND A THING
Even if I eventually understand , I would have to lock myself in room for god knows how long until I able to understand TIME again
6:42 you put yukari saying "and people say I'm old" comparing her age to gensokyo but there is evidence to suggest that she had some part in CREATING the great Hakurei barrier if not directly creating it herself thus making her OLDER than gensokyo
Also for the remilia thing that can be explained by just saying Sakuya
Yeah I know that Yukari is technically older than Gensokyo. I just made a small joke because Yukari's age is an easy thing to make fun of in the fandom.
As for Sakuya messing with time for Remilia, it is highly unlikely as she was tasked to keep the mansion during Remilia's night stroll and no other thing in the dialogue seems to indicate it.
Rather, I've learned this thanks to other people in the comments but in Japan, most businesses who stay open at night actually count hours up to 30. And seeing how IaMP is a game centered around a person wanting to gather people to drink and have a good time, it doesn't seem out of place.
Nothing was said about Sakuya...I see what you're doing here..
in other words:
time ain't that big of a deal in gensokyo
If Surnist time is so good why isn't there a Surnist time t-
Isn't Gensokyo based on the fantasy of the outside world? Wouldn't it make sense that time flows unnaturally, ie: both loosely and strictly depending on the perception of the outside world?
It's not entirely based on fantasy though, there are some principles of current science and current technology that have moved within the world of Gensokyo. So it's also understandable that time would also have a sense of logic on their side.
I did forget bout the technology bit, fair nuff
So they use chinese clocks and calendar? OMG HOW WEIRD
Time means nothing in Genskoyo
huh...I may annoy you but...Doremy is a tapir...not a goat/sheep
I know that but the issue is that she's the closest thing there is to it. Otherwise, there is no goat character. In fact same goes for the Pig for example.
BREAKING NEWS WE NOW HAVE A GOAT CHARACTER AND HER NAME IS YUUMA TOUTETSU
@@hahano8975 she reminds me of Clownpiece...but possibly in worse as Yuuma is confirmed being the final boss.
(oh, and Kutaka Fried Chicken can take revenge on wild Yuyukos)
Time has no meaning its its useless as we speak time in that world is just. Flowing with no end its just nothing.