Pride In Gensokyo
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- In today's deep dive of pointless nonsense, we take a look at the queer experience in Gensokyo.
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Chimmy Sign asset created by Yuutou Hazama: / hazama_yuutou
All other Touhou art featured in this video is from official Touhou print works.
Music used, in order:
Touhou 18 - Lunar Rainbow
Touhou 18 - Rainbow Crossed Gensokyo
Touhou 18 - A Rainbow Colored World
Mitch Murder - Breaking Waves: • mitch murder - breakin...
Sources cited:
1) Constitution of Japan, Chapter III, Article 24
2) en.touhouwiki....
3) en.wikipedia.o...
4) Crompton, L. (2006). Homosexuality and Civilization. Belknap Press.
5) Leupp, G. (2023). Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan. Univ of California Press.
6) Chalmers, S. (2002). Emerging Lesbian Voices from Japan. Psychology Press.
7) Kawatake, T. (1971) A History of Japanese Theater II: Bunraku and Kabuki. Kokusai Bunka Shinkokai.
8) Brau, L. (1990). The Women’s Theatre of Takarazuka. TDR, 34(4), 79. doi.org/10.230...
9) Dollase, H. T. (2003). Early Twentieth Century Japanese Girls’ Magazine Stories: Examining Shōjo Voice in Hanamonogatari (Flower Tales). The Journal of Popular Culture, 36(4), 724-755. doi.org/10.111...
10) web.archive.or...
11) • ZUNさんのお絵描きが見れちゃう！？ZUNさ...
12) en.touhouwiki....
13) en.touhouwiki....
About trans identities in Gensokyo:
I originally had a portion of script dedicated to talking about trans identities in Gensokyo, but I realized that this is a very difficult topic to tackle. To start with, Japan's history with gender is very different from our western perception of it. Gender identity is much more performative in Japan, especially in the Tokugawa period. As a non-Japanese non-trans person, I really didn't feel as though I was able to fully understand what trans identities would have been like in Gensokyo. So I removed this part from the video. But I will reiterate: ZUN loves to see alternative interpretations of his characters. If you are a trans person, and you find identity in any Touhou characters, then that's alright.
understandable, it was still a great video for us trans folks even without it, the care that you took to make this video inclusive and sensible shows, really made me feel like this community really cares about us and that I can feel safe here, thank you for making this proud month better
I mean, at minimum, interpreting Miko as cis requires some Olympic-level mental gymnastics.
@@ultra824 and Mamizou too, ZUN is known to bend the rules here and there on the origin of certain youkai's abilities in Touhou in contrast with irl myths, but given how it's both simpler and more interesting if Mamizou is trans, then why not see it that way?
@@ultra824 Or you just say Miko pulled a Saber and was female the whole time but posed as male and was remembered as such.
@@raikaria3090 yeah was gonna say its not that hard to interpret it that way using the Fate series card but don't mistake this for me shooting down trans interpretations
by-the-by if Eirin is supposed to be Omoikane who is a male god and we know she's really good with magical medicine and can make people immortal or see the future dune style wonder what that could mean hmmm ( : ( :
I just got tricked into an interesting history lesson about ancient LGBT in japan, drat!
in touhou 19 is a character that is confirmed to have a crush on another girl :0
also i share the opinion of most of touhou characters being asexual :0
This is true!
Hisami
Everyone's always "Renko/Maribel" this and "Marisa/Alice" that, wheres my love for the two old dudes that are always at Geidontei together? Those guys are inseparable.
old man yaoi is the future
the only gay rep that matters
And then Hisami showed up
Hisami bringing lesbianism to gensokyo:
A couple of months after this release: Hisami. Who is *entirely totally gay for Zanmu and it's not even debateable* Granted; Hisami is not a resident of Gensokyo; she's a resident of the Afterlife [not nessicerily hell; she works for the ministry of life and death]
I have heard that the fanservice in Alternative Facts in Eastern Utopia is meant to parody newspapers that will do *everything* for more purchases, though I suppose ZUN would still need to portray it to mock it.
I'm asexual and I never once considered that this is one of the biggest reasons I'm drawn to this series...I think you hit the nail on the head! So many franchises are overwrought with romance and shipping and Touhou is so empty of that. If you want it its there in fan work but for the most part, the official works are so clear of that stuff and focus more on friendship.
I freaking love the little Chimata mascot. Shes so cute
Honestly, the story between Yuyuko and Yukari reads like a dramatic love story. From that moment on it was my headcannon that they're an item and honestly, the more I looked into Touhou canon and fanon, the more my opinion shifted to "everyone's kinda gay for at least another girl/trans person in Gensokyo".
And I love it.
But honestly, I also find myself agreeing with you a lot about the potential of everyone in Gensokyo being ace, or demisexual.
Now that I think about it, it reads like a Tragic Love story, and the first years of the Yuri Genre was mostly overpopulated by drama and tragedy.
@@proximaeon yes sadly, but what I find so fascinating about their relationship is that it doesn't end with Yuyuko unaliving herself and that, all things considered, they can start mostly fresh with at least one sided affection still in full effect
I will say i was quite suprised when Asexuality was brought up. Thats generally something most people dont think about.
I'm genuinely surprised at how good the comments section on this video was. Great job!
I'd go as far as to say this is your best video. Amazing job!
I fully agree with your points and I love how you handled the topic... but nobody can convince me that Shion and Tenshi aren't into each other.
Shion -> Tenshi is made blatantly clear. Tenshi -> Shion is more debateable.
Well, well, well....THERE IS AN OFFICIAL GAY CHARACTER NOW
Gensokyo as a whole was made to be a safe haven for those that couldn't survive in the Outside world (be they yokai, gods or other magical creatures). And well, I think there's definitely an argument to be made that this could be an allegory for people "other-ed" by society, including of course those in the LGBTQ+ community.
Exactly!
Yes yokai in gensokyo are subtextually queer in their own rights
Not gonna lie, when I saw this video pop up I was like: "The hell is this? Even though Zun is a guy who constantly puts in subtle hints about all sorts of stuff, there is no way, you can proof that someone is gay. Zun never puts in any romance and most of the characters just see each other as homies and nothing more." However, I learned alot form this video and also enjoyed it quite alot.
One thing that I love about Zun is, that he leaves lots of space for interpretations. I don't think that it is a good idea the precisely declare somenones sexuality or who someone shows most affection to, because of shipping culture and stuff. For me personally, romance in Touhou isn't really a thing and I simply do not care enough if somenone is gay or not.
And yes, beeing accepting is quite a valuable trait.
I think that's mostly the case. I don't think ZUN is averse to romantic relationships, he's just not very interested in writing himself. Besides like you said, if say he
paired Reimu and Marisa that would make it the "true" relationship, the canon one, and thus all other ships involving those two would be treated as lesser given our monogamous society. Given that Touhou makes a point to be vague so it can be interpreted in many different ways I think it's for the benefit that the ships are left to the fandom
imma be real Im just here because Marisa is the cutest thing I've seen in a long time and Marisa yuri is amazing.
Something of note!
In the new touhou game (19), Hisami Yomotsu was outright stated to have a crush on Zanmu nippaku, her boss. Which means we have an official gay character 👍
One of the things that made more drawn in this franchise was the characters weren't really sexualised. Also as a gay man it would just turn me off xD
That’s also one of the things I love about Touhou. Literally the only franchise with a large cast of girls that aren’t given skimpy outfits & aren’t given personalities aimed at making you fall for them. They are genuine characters; made to be characters, not made to be products, if you know what I mean.
relatable, i probably wouldn't have liked touhou as much as i do if characters were sexualized.
Great watch! I'm so so happy to see a queer discussion of 2hu!!! Thank you so much for this video, I also find your other videos very entertaining and interesting - I'm surprised I wasn't subbed to you till now.
Asexuality mentioned lets fucking go
as a lesbian touhou fan, this video is so well thought-out and much appreciated! :]
wow same, i can't imagine why there's so many lesbian touhou fans that's a weird coincidence haha
Great video!! Love the mentioning of Ace identities at the end, especially with how little attention/respect they get!!
you handled the subject so well in this video and would've never expected the answer you gave! thank you for making this!
Thank you for making this! I've always wondered how queer identities would fit in gensokyo assuming it's culture did stop in the 1880ish, and now I got some good starting points for further research too. Do you have any other sources you consulted for the historical part of the video, or did you only use what you cited?
I consulted other sources as well to get a more full picture, but many of them have overlapping information, so I didn't find it necessary to include them.
Here are a few other sources I came across during research:
1) Makoto, F., & Lockyer, A. (1994). The Changing Nature of Sexuality: The Three Codes Framing Homosexuality in Modern Japan. U.S.-Japan Women’s Journal. English Supplement, 7, 98-127.
2) Berlin, Z. (1991). The Takarazuka Touch. Asian Theatre Journal, 8(1), 35-47.
3) McLelland, M. (2004). From Sailor-Suits to Sadists: “Lesbos Love” as Reflected in Japan’s Postwar “Perverse Press.” U.S.-Japan Women’s Journal, 27, 27-50.
I can't link these articles, since CZcams will block my comment for spam if I do. But you should be able to search for all of them on JSTOR using your university access code or a free account.
@@MegaFrog Thank you!
This was a fun little discussion, thanks for taking the time for the history lesson and extra perspective.
Not gonna lie, you really tackled a topic that is really hard to unfold. Your conclusion may come rather bitter for a section of the target audience, but I do admire the honesty and bravery of doing so in a sober manner.
I don't do much shipping, it's not something I'm interested in. And I could care less what the audience wants the video to be. What I wanted to make was a genuine and honest look at Gensokyo free from the misconceptions of the Fandom. And to that end, I think it was a success.
Really really good video. Gonna point at this as proof that straight white men CAN 100% understand queer history, struggles and nuances in a respectful way. You're outdoing James Summerton at least.
I am bisexual but thank you
@@MegaFrog Oop sorry. I guess I'm looking for more unicorns too hard...
I like Canon touhou manga without romance Fanservice leave room for story and funny jokes.
i fucking love this video
I’m aromantic asexual, and the lack of romance has always been something I love about Touhou! While I do have a few ships I’d die behind, just knowing that something possibly represents me is just so refreshing, especially with the lack of representation ace and ESPECIALLY aromantic people get. So, this video resonates with me, thanks for making it!!!
Representation is important!
i really admire the conclusion to this video! while i personally find a lot of comfort in character pairings, particularly lesbian pairs, i've never really seen touhou through the eye of asexuality/aromanticism and the way it's inviting to people who identify with those labels, but i think that's a very lovely way to view the relationships in touhou!
definitely subscribing to see more from you ^^
Love the video, great points and very interesting, Touhou will literally never get boring to me because of discussions like this
This video was so good aaah! Thank you thank you thank you!
Mentioning the Takarazuka Revue and the "prince" gender presentation was a cool bit, notably in the way all these + the all-girl schools of the 1920 fostered the Class S literature which was such a huge influence on the yuri genre. I don't know, it just feels like this comes full circle haha!
And aside from that, yes. Yes yes yes. The queerplatonic vibes of a lot of relationships in Touhou are mostly unmatched in works of fiction, and they're so great to see! Your choice of the Fairies of Light's house to illustrate your point rings particularly true. The print works are chock-full of cozily intimate vibes like this, in ways that are also overall free of jealousy, and-- wow, I never conscientized enough how refreshing this is. Thank you so much for pointing it out.
(Also dang I had forgotten BAiJR had doujins in it, I misremembered and thought it was only Seasonal Dream Vision!)
Oh my
coming back here after the arrival of hisami, the grape lesbian herself
That pun at 3:33 hit me like a god damn freight train, oh my god.
WAIT, THE PERSON WHO WROTE THE ANIME MARU ARTICLE IS A LESBIAN????????????? OH MY GOD??? I just assumed it was written by some conservative this whole time, so this really shifts my perspective on the whole thing.
Anyways, though, this was a really great watch. Touhou as a series is something I've always found interesting 'cuz ZUN has very intentionally left so much of it open to interpretation in a way that doesn't leave the story too full of holes but is still really inviting to fanworks to slip in with their own thoughts and interpretations on things. I think the way ZUN writes a number of character interactions really plays into this. Like you said, the lack of on-screen relationships feels really inviting to asexuals, but on top of that, I think the various flirts and other intimate-seeming interactions between characters are perfect for people to latch onto with their own interpretations of who might be gay for who, and we've seen how ZUN interacts with other creators a lot recently and how he seems to greatly enjoy and support these kinds of conversations. I think ZUN went into this series just kinda wanting to make something he himself enjoys and put his thoughts out into the world, and then seeing other people, queer folk especially, resonate with his work is something that I think has made him rather proud. It's something I was thinking about a bit recently while rereading a bunch of the print works lately and seeing how often he brings on artists who have worked on other queer works to put their own touch on the official print works feels like his way of facilitating things and showing his support. I'm sorry if this doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I'm kinda "stream of consciousness"-ing this whole thing, but the main thing is that this video is great and got me thinking more about Touhou and how its openness as a series fostered more room for queer interpretations.
I HAD MISSED THE PUN AAAAH it was so smooth thank you for pointing it out!
Also yes thank you for this big stream of consciousness, I agree wholeheartedly, your comment and this whole video made me very enthusiastic - and yeah, ZUN can be proud
great video, thanks for making it. i'm a trans queer touhou fan and am always looking for crumbs of gay in it
Every touhou relationship is unique and beautiful. 🙏
Friendly reminder that modern sexual identities are a response to christian morality and its binaries.
Talking about sexuality in different cultures/times is super fun and interesting, but doing so through modern (and American, if I may ad) lenses is dangerous, if not downright meh
(I'm talking mostly about the first part of the video, the part about actual 2hu is nice!)
Reimu × Yukari is canon and kino
Pfffff, Yukari x Yuyuko is canon and Reimu is their adoptive daughter.
@@Minulf It's very cute but it's too vanilla, too vanilla I tell you!
ReiMari fans might disagree (including me)
I found a frog that is goated with the sauce
Does that mean that, if Gensokyo existed, i could ask Yukari to get me in?
But how would that work?
No. Yukari in general says Gensokyo is a place where anyone and anything is accepted, not that she is going to sent you there if you ask her... somehow
@@FanMSMKMeanwhile Okina: "Yeah you can come to Gensokyo, but you're now indebted 700 years of service to me"
Volunteer to be food for Remilia (key point, ONLY Remilia) or steal the Gensokyo occult ball. Remilia is because she's a light eater and if you're not anemic or under 40 kgs, she probably can't suck enough blood to kill you but will still be full.
6:40 I thought they where siblings
They are, when I say they are married, I mean they both have husbands that they never interact with in canon.
@@MegaFrog oh ok I was confused
From how it was edited it looked like you where implying something straight out of Alabama
Great video!
i really appreciate this video, cuz social media is designed to push controversy and that means aphobia is a constant
I think in the end this video was kinda pointless. We cannot speak about something that hasn't even been hinted. But the video was enjoyable nonetheless.
Btw, isn't the relationship between Maribel and Renko very sister-like? Like, they're beyond best friends. So this extra casual way they talk to each other wouldn't be weird in my opinion.
Yeah for the Renko and Maribel thing i agree, it feels more sisterly to me than romance but anytime i say that i get hounded on lol
Honestly I have no idea how the Renko/Maribel relationship could be viewed as a sisterly one. DBOA ends with them waking up in bed together and the song title for that moment is an insanely cheeky lampshade over the whole thing. There's no plausible heterosexual explanation for exactly where their relationship has gone over the years.
"Hangover of Bedfellows Dreaming Differently"
"The horse thinks one thing, and he that saddles him another."
I can see it for a lot of other relationships that are commonly seen as romantic in Touhou, just not those two.
every touhou character is gay and trans
Omg just like that one discord server I'm in
I am the every this is true
I am the gay and Trans can confirm.
Gay touhou girls
Babe wake up new MegaFrog video
Reimu X Meira is a thing
yes.
Megafrog video....is good video
👍
only commenting to make the number of comments 69. Nice
Well while I'm here I might as well say I enjoyed the video! :)
Oh man, wonder how the comment section would be like. Also happy June 🏳️🌈