Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Fixing the Mill's Motor Fan
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2022
- This quickie One Day Build sees Adam tackling a minor issue he has with his shop's milling machine: its motor fan runs constantly and gets too loud. Instead of swapping it out for a different type of cooling system, Adam gets in touch with the mill's manufacturer and gets a way to reconfigure the fan's operation so that it only kicks in when the mill is actively used. Time to open up the mill's service panel and dig into its electronics!
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Thanks for watching! - Věda a technologie
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26:13 please please Adam wear full goggles when blowing swarf off a machine 👍
Coilwhine and unbalanced fan. Sound of a dying fan.
Adam, What voltage/Amperage do you have available in your shop? Is that a 3-phase mill?
Noctua fans might have helped you out
Adam , one of the procedures I appreciate is your honesty with all your builds. You did your additions/techniques/improvement in real time with mistakes, experimenting, not completely understanding the directions like we all do. For this I salute you. Thanks so much for this. You are a real maker! I hope someday to aspire to half the maker you are.
“These are not the droids we are looking for.” Is what sprang immediately to mind when you said
“These are not the R2s I’m looking for.”
Love this video!
I mean, that was literally the joke he was making :)
Doesn't every Star Wars fan do that? :D
I bet a lot of us heard it in the voice of Alec Guinness too.
"Presumably nothing can kill me now....."
I just noticed that after you unplugged it you opened the door and there appears to be a small Yaskawa VFD (variable frequency drive) in there.
By design VFDs have rather large capacitors in them, and they take a few moments to dissipate the voltage they store.
And they can discharge into a person if terminal wiring is touched before they have bled down.
Many drives have LEDs that remain lit until all voltage is dissipated. And those warning labels on the VFD probably say that.
The chances of getting shocked are low because you would have to get into the drive wiring to access dangerous points.
Just remember to be careful!
I was wondering about that. Those pesky high voltage capacitors 😁
That was my first thought too. It probably wouldn’t kill one to use a circuit tester to check before starting the work. In some cases it might also help prevent damage to components too. Safety first, right?
Before I begin any project, whether it be electrical or mechanical or whatever, I always hear the voice of Norm Abram (New Yankee Workshop) reminding me about safety. I bet there are quite a few people who still have their eyes, ears, fingers, and toes because of that reminder.
Indeed, it says it in french on that box: "wait 5 minutes to let the capacitors discharge" :)
I appreciate the 'live' nature of your build videos, with the 'Oh, I forgot something. One sec...' sort of moments. It feels like I am chilling in the cave rather than watching what are often uber-edited videos that you miss things from looking away for a few seconds.
Its much better for just playing a video on the side while I do my own thing. 👍🏻
Adam gets so excited about the pictures… good documentation is a beautiful thing
But it really wasn't good documentation because Adam still did it wrong.
You may want to add a solid state, off delay timer. This would keep the cooling fan running for an interval after the motor cycle ends . Might help with longevity.
why solid state?
I was just about to recommend the same. Easy way to cook your stuff is to leave it sitting without airflow in heat soak.
@@freddyjensen9179compact, no moving parts, adjust it with a resistor (variable or fixed) and inexpensive.
Exactly what I thought.
I agree, should have an off-delay timer to protect the windings from after-use heat-soaking. Very bad for electronics and motors.
The ramblings of a madman that I would watch everyday.
„That goes to Adam Savage? Yeah, better include the pictures…“ 😂 - Nah, it’s always great when companies still have customer satisfaction in mind and want to provide great customer service. Even if the system in general is faulty, it still is somewhat nice when this happens.
I can picture the sales rep and the engineer discussing the job and the instructions. They pause, look at each other, and, in unison, proclaim...
"Include pictures!"
I almost gaurentee that if it was anyone else other than Adam Savage they would not have done this...
As someone that knows absolutely nothing about wiring I thought to myself "wouldn't they have included that bus bar if it was necessary for the installation?" 😂
I know nothing of electronics, but I saw the pictures and texts at the start, and summarized it like 'two to power the relay itself, take the original wire and use it as an input for the relay, and then you hook the relays output to the where the original wire was connected'. Once Adam started tinkering with the bus bar I got really confused.
Isn't it funny how, sometimes, having no knowledge or experience of something can give you an advantage in the very same thing? Sometimes you just get lost in your abilities.
So way late here but from the picture he was supposed to remove the cover from the raceway and pull those wires back to the specified mounting location for the relay. The one lead was long as it went from the mounting location all the way back to the original 3 leads position.
"This is the R2 that I'm looking for" - The giggle after that was awesome hahaha
Me calling a manufacturer:
Me: Hey, my mill is loud.
Mill manufacturer: Yep, it's does that.
Adam calling a manufacturer:
Adam: Hey my mill is loud.
Mill manufacturer: We shall huddle up the engineers, design a solution and sent you a beta kit overnight.
bet you this upgrade goes in all new mills going forward.
It's not even the mill that's loud -- it's the cooling fan. That's what fans do, FFS. I'm betting Adam uses a Mac.
@@twatmunro I don't think his choice in computational hardware means shit in whether this was necessary. If he said the fan was loud, it was loud.
For a normal shop or even home-gamer/diyer, loud mill fan is no problem. For someone who makes video content for a living, like Adam, background noise like that fan effects the quality of product they create. Or at the very least the time they need to invest to make the videos to their standards.
@@twatmunro Adam wears hearing aids. Hearing aids don't really boost certain sounds, they just tend to make everything louder.
“This is the R-2 you’re looking for”…
And this is just one of the many reasons why we love you Adam!!!
I still love that you have a little case for everything like your wirelug collection. I started to do that with Craftsman VersaPak boxes since they're generally pretty inexpensive, weatherproof, and since I have the 2-Wheel dolly box, I can easily snap together a portable kit for whatever project is afoot! I have various power tool collections, one is a kit with all the goodies for my Milwaukee M12 rotary tool, one is dedicated to glues (CA, hot, epoxies), and since I get all the cleartop cases, when I hang them on the wall, I can see EVERYTHING at a glance. My mom thought I was nuts until one day she said, "You know... I think you have something going here." SWEET VALIDATION! Thanks for all the great videos, Adam!
I love how this video shows how many times you have to get up and down as you go get the proper tools to actually execute a task. It can be maddening!
"Presumably, nothing can electrocute me."
Hahahaha. Hahahaha. Capacitors go bzzzz.
*Quote* *From* *Man* *Electrocuted*
"What are you gonna do, electrocute me?"
Like manufacture installed mines eh lol.
I used to program, install and wire PLCs in large manufacturing facilities so that the equipment could interface with the databases on the operators terminals. This would give instant feedback of the machine and what jobs they were working on. I am a systems engineer, but I have a degree in Electronic Engineering which helped give me the knowledge to not have to outsource projects like this. I would travel to lots of different plants in our company and I would have detailed diagrams, instructions, and pictures inside the PLC enclosures so that if there was an issue in the future anyone would be able to look at it and understand what was going on. I spent many hours writing out these trying to be as detailed as possible, I felt it was important to leave behind this information for those who would come after me.
Bless those who show responsibility and diligence by writing and updating the documentation.
A useful lesson that I learned working in manufacturing plants is when you flip the breaker to kill the power to a machine, always go to try to turn the machine on before working on the machine. There are two reasons:
1. The breaker/lockout might have been mislabeled and the machine is still live; and
2. There is still electricity stored in the circuitry, such as the capacitors, and turning the motor by hand can make it suddenly turn a few revolutions before being fully discharged or you might touch the wrong lead and get a good shock.
Disconnecting the power then trying to turn the device on before starting work on it is a good habit to get into, no matter what you're working on.
They should additionally engineer a thermostat so that the fan would run when the motor exceeded a temperature threshold, particularly after operation.
I probably would have added a timer relay so the fan ran for a while after the spindle drive shut down. But Adam probably doesn’t push the HP that hard.
@@spehropefhany yep wire in a delay timer, call it D2..
@@spehropefhany Either a thermostat or timer, or just a manual toggle switch in parallell with the R2 on the relay, so you could choose to turn it on manually independent of the spindle running.
@@keithmarlow143 Star Wars reference: One now has to wonder if the R2 and D2 connections are significantly more important in a R2D2 unit.
@@duodot Thermostat is the better and safer option.
I know it might sound stupid but I’ve missed the masterbuilder Adam Savage doing his one Day builds with his phone!
I can hear the conversation between the salesman and the engineer perfectly.
“Yea dude I got Adam savage from myth busters on the phone and you really need to solve his problem. Has like 6 million subscribers and would be a great marketing opportunity”
I still wonder: when will Adam discover the magic of WAGO lever nuts?
I'm pretty sure he knows what Wago lever nuts are. Perhaps he didn't want to remove the fork connectors that it came with and have to strip the wire.
Wago lever connectors are really fabulous for experimental circuits and connections that need to stay insulated. A lot of times crimp terminals and barrier strips are used in machinery for ease of troubleshooting.
@@billbucktube wago has holders for din rails (neat and easy install) and holes for tester lead (ease of troubleshooting)
@@aleksandrjadov9152 Fabulous! Never saw them. I'm off to search...
@@billbucktube try part number 221-500
Having watched the episode where he made the portable soldering station, it's nice to see it in use on a real project.
Great to see you doing hardcore electrical wiring there Adam! I do this for a living and showing how easy it is for anyone to do this even with some mistakes and to not be afraid of electricity once you know everything is safe is a great confidence booster for everyone! It really is straightforward if you have awesome directions and even pictures!
I love how your mistakes and accidents are included. I ran CNC controlled Bridgeports for 3 years and they were really cool machines. I drilled and slotted lots of holes for boat motor mounts, backup plates, and other boat stuff. Too bad they didn't want to pay me to stay.
Since I was a kid I was short sighted. Wore glasses all the time to see for long distance but as I got older to see near objects I had to take my glasses off. Then I got varifocal for everything but the short distance part of the lens is at the bottom so any DIY requiring me to look up meant glasses off! Now I'm over 60 I need read glasses for everything. For jobs like this Adam should have reading glasses and a pair of computer glasses which come in 1 metre range or 2 metre. Best thing I ever did! You keep a pair on the top of your head or on a lanyard round the neck to swap round quickly. For this job a cheap multimeter would also be a good idea for peace of mind to test for dead.
I love how you talked about the tape for the bus being the so important to NASA, and your space suit is in the shot.
As a Building Automation Engineer/ Programmer/ Installer/ does it all….lol, this video made me so happy. I get to work on things like this panel every day and get so excited just like Adam Savage did when unboxing my controllers and components when they get to my shop. That being said lately I have been having to do the other side of this lately and make those step by step instructions for others to do the install after I program something. Cheers to all the automation nerds out there!
I love how you just assumed Sharp, who provided extremely detailed instructions for their custom part, just left out the “manufacture a bus bar” step so you went and did it yourself. :)
I notice the Stanly screwdrivers.
'...Adam comes in with the twenty-seven eight-by-ten
Colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.'
Cue the random Arlo Guthrie quote 🙂
I don't know why but these Raw videos are so relaxing and satisfying to watch
While doing the relay install I cringed so many times thinking your going to thwack your head on the Morse Taper jaw rack, its also good to see your human like the rest of us(well most 😉) with the mistake we also would have made, Sometimes a straight forward simple instruction could steer us in the wrong direction to a little mistake...lucky it wasnt a big one that could have shocked us all. Keep the vids coming its like having an old mate here for breakfast before we hit the workshop.
I’m sure I share this sentiment with TENS of THOUSANDS of viewers when I say that “Spending a week or 2 w/ Adam in his CAVE would be a dream come true” - I’d love to experience the spontaneity of seeing random ideas go from thoughts, to drawings, to reality, on a daily basis…
I feel humanity would be better OVERALL if more people were like this man right here.
I love shop ODBs. Watching you refine your equipment is so much fun. Thanks, Adam.
Always nice to spend time with your builds Adam, thank you.
Adam, your enthusiasm and love for what you do is at once exciting, lovely, and scary. Not to say very very infectious.
I love the jump cut at 18:06 'ish where Adam walks out of frame on the left and immediately into frame on the right!!
Yeah, the editing on these videos is consistently amazing.
I just wanna be clear that the pace with which Adam works absolutely floors me. This man's hands seem to almost know where they want to go before he does.
2:35 Yes Adam.. Centered perfectly to the left! XD
Mythbusters became my favorite show right away when I first saw it in 2003. I love Adams excitement and comedy/sense of humor. Thanks for all the years of entertainment!
Bravo to your editors, I rarely comment or anything but these guys are creative as heck on some of these videos. This transition here (@17:54) made me go "Nice!"
Adam, if they ever do a reboot of Back to the Future or a prequel, you would be hands down the best person to be Doc Brown!!!
Excited to see you fix your mill!
I love the enthusiasm. The whole point of this is to have a good time.
Adam can make anything interesting to me and I will watch for hours!❤️
Happy to see even Adam S. , looks at the screen instead of the cameralens hihi .
Great show ...
Love your enthausiasm and energy...early on the discovery days .
Grtzz from the Netherlands Johny geerts
This is eerily familiar to me. I even wear the same headlamp while working in the electrical cabinets of old CNC routers. Just added an automatic tool change spindle to an old machine the other day and it took a bunch of relays similar to that one to control the pneumatics (drawbar down solenoid, cone purge, cooling plate). Nice work Adam.
the audio track during the oil lube swap was very nice
I do not think the bus bar was needed. That grey plastic around those connections is a wire management system. He just needed to pop off the cap of the bottom one, and pull the R2 wires back and over to under the #4 and #5, and I think it would have reached.
exactly
Whoever labelled those pins was really using the force.
I think they had a stutter. R2, R2, R2
I've never seen anyone as excited as a kid on Christmas when they got replacement parts for a broken tool before. The world must be a very exciting place in Adam's head 🙂
I had this issue with my VFD. A tiny 40mm fan spinning for it's life at all times. I simply added a KSD9700 40c thermoswitch. No timer for post-run, no other changes to the circuit. Just a tiny thing that starts the fan whenever the temperature exceeds 40c (on the cooling fins in my case). I would go that way instead of the relay.
Man, there better be one of those R2’s that is connected at the opposite end to a D2! :D
That handling of the paper knife was ninja-like.
It's like watching your Dad who you genuinely have no faith in do DIY and then your so amazed when it goes right.
Most machines run the oiler based on spindle on time. The relay for the fan should be hooked to the oiler input power. Then the timer would only increment when the spindle turns.
I'm only a little over two minutes into this and the pacing is fascinating to me, I love it.
No matter how organized, something always drops when you move something. I think that happens in every shop.
This is exactly the kind of thing that I do at work every day. I do building automation, so I got excited the moment I saw the video thumbnail. ^-^
For electrical connections i fully reccomend Waygo connectors, they do hoppy ones for small gauge wire and standard ones for mains electricity, theyre just so much easier than anything ive found. Not super space efficient, but for electrical boxes, model railways and stuff that needs to be pretty permanent but have the ability to come apart theres nothing quite like them
Most fan cooled sealed electric motors. I've seen have a fan actual, attached to the motor shaft. Adam I've run Sharpe mills. Both manual and ones with a CNC control installed. Prototrak* and Anilam controls. The ones with controls can be run manually. I'm not sure what retrofits cost but if I had the shekels sitting around I would seriously look into it. They can make life in the shop so much easier. But if all you are doing is simple milling operations maybe not.
*Prefer the ProtoTRAK. I'm not sure what type of control package they have now. I haven't run one since 06. AGE 2, AGE 3, MX 2, MX 3. They're all very similiar. Heck. The ones I was running used floppies for storing programs.
I love watching people mess about with the insides of machine tools...when they look at a spiders web of cables and see pathways from here to there and know that connecting this to that will make magic happen 😅
I work with industrialised computers, yet, a lot of what happens inside some of these things and the people who work in them is just mind boggling when you factor in the cost of the repair if they somehow got it wrong!
thanks for posting videos mr adam, please keep making them,
7:11 Its Not Just Me!!! 🤣That mill company knows service, pictures??? NICE😎
I love how "yay instructions" went to "awesome instructions" which lead to over engineering. LOL
how fitting the Demerit badges at the end, there needs to be an "over engineered an already engineered solution" one.
Why can't all things come with instructions like that ? 1 of the lucky perks Adam earned I guess koodoos Sir, well deserved 😊😊
Some soldering flux would be a good addition to the solder station, it's essentially a de-oxidizer so the solder just flows better and makes stronger connections
He is most likely using a flux core solder so there really no need to add flux
Sharp + Savage Mode = Awesome
These are my favorite one day builds....
Glad to see you working with "R2" again 😀
If you find a partner who talks about you the way Adam talks about his mill, you are blessed.
Oh I just noticed the blade runner 2048 hologram controller replica on the mill cart, if I'm not mistaken! Awesome! Hope we see some more of that.
every time Adam kind of messes up the shot while recording I can never really get mad, I feel like you could point a camera at any angle anywhere in the Cave and it's still going to be entertaining to just look at the sheer number of concentraded awesome stuff in there.
Great you covered the entire process. I was immediately wondering why that bus had to be made as I couldn't imagine an engineer who sends that, doesn't mention it or wouldn't have included it. :)
We use to have an manual way oiler on a Bridgport Mark 5 series . Also the relay for the EFM great . Grant Imahara is looking down and approving of your progress .
Cheers 01/15/2022
Love how you're like a kid at Christmas at the start of this (and what phenomenal customer service from the supplier!)
I *did* wonder whether the engineer, after going to the bother of building the relay for you and giving the detailed instructions, would somehow: 1 - Expect you to build a bus to fit it, and 2 - Not bother telling you you'd need one.
But I'm a way better talker than maker, to be fair.
Wow that's some customer service most places would say its industrial equipment deal with it
Apparently this Sharp company is sharper than other companies. Because you can't pay for the kind of advertising they got in this video. They got serious value here.
Now THAT'S what you call customer service!
I was just shopping fans for this beefy 500W 12V power supply I have and I thought I would find some sort of super-streamlined silent fan, but no. The noise is pretty much proportional to the airflow. It's extra relevant because I use this thing for an audio application. Some people stuff em in a closet, leave em on 24/7 and run the wiring into the next room to get rid of the noise.
I majorly dislike to tape anything electrical. You never know how long it's going to take for the glue to dry out and turn to dust, or for the tape to harden and crumble. I always want to go with heatshrink, but in your case, I might have looked for some sort of putty or epoxy. Yuck yuck yuck to tape for insulation purposes.
It would be good if they could implement this solution in all of their machines.
If they have this type of personal customer service where the engineer is in direct contact with the consumer then I think they will.
It seems there may be a value to having the cooling fan run for a time after the motor with its rotor fan stops. This would exchange the heat resulting from heavy operation. Perhaps a thermostat operation would be best?
I kept having the sensation of someone at Sharp screaming "NO!!" through most of this.
Adam, you need an overhead top-down camera for your work bench, that way we can see what you see without having to move your main rig too much.
Loved it great content 🙏
A JayzTwoCents / Tested water cooling collab would be cool
Love that you went for the bus bar approach. Most of us would have probably just stripped and twist them all together with a wire nut and shove it in there.
I´m more a fan of Wago clamps.
Not most of me 😅
7:07 Insert Jamie groan here.
9:26 haha, was waiting for the SW joke, but that was the perfect moment for it.
As long as we're praising Sharp, i still use my small Sharp CRT TV that i got in the 90s.
have you learned any neat machining tricks on your mill yet? I really love those mills because you can kind of trick them into doing cool things. idk if you DRO has programing for pockets and stuff like that but the trick i found out in high school was that if you told the machine you wanted to make a 3 in pocket and told it you were using a half in end mill, you could then insert a much smaller end mill and get a cool spiral effect. im sure its sounds dumb but it was really exciting and opened my eyes and helped me realize what these machines could really do
Love a shop video
I love videos like this
Contain your excitement and sloooooowwwww down 👍
At 6:15 Ah yeah, the joy of any electrical/mechanical job... 3 minutes to unwrap the parts, 4 minutes to read the instructions, then 50 minutes of walking back and forth to the device to get yet another tool.
You forget Adam, everyone knows how you work. They get to watch you on a regular basis.
Technical question, though...does the motor build up more heat than the fan can remove? For example, let's say the motor temp increases 5 deg/min while running, and the fan lowers the temp 2deg/min. My concern is that with prolonged use, the motor will continue to heat up without an opportunity for the fan to cool it down between runs. A real world example would be my inductive burner in the kitchen (granted, more heat)...the fan runs for a good 5 min AFTER the burner is shut off. Just my $0.02 :)
This is true for some cases. For example some welders has duty cycle of 30% so you can run it 3min and wait 7min for it to cool down. And fans run all the time.
If this mill has 100% duty cycle it doesn't need a cooling period. Motors are propably variable speed so fans cant be attached to the motor so fans are separate. And it was the most simple to just operate fans all the time.
Your assumption (5deg/min etc) is not totally correct because the hotter motor gets the more efficient is the cooling comes. (temperature delta gets bigger)
Hello, first thanks for sharing all those with us, it's very nice and instructive, I was wondering, aren't you concern that since the fan only run when the motor is in use, that after you finish using it, if the motor still need cooling down since the fan as stop it won't properly do it's job? I am suggesting that you should add at lease a timer for when you stop your motor the fan still run few minute before turning off, just a suggestion though :)
is nobody talking about that straight teleport at 18:07? lol
That mill is just beautiful, and I don't often say that about modern machinery .. maybe it's because it's built on top of what was already a beautiful machine. Of course, it's also about $10k more expensive than I spent on my clapped out Bridgeport, so.. you get what you pay for, I guess! :)
Given R2 was in the electrical cabinet, did you find C-3PO in there as well?
You've hit on a new Demerit Badge ... Reading the instruction diagram upside-down!
A thermo switch or with the relay a timer independent of the power switch for a cool down period would be better.
Shouldn't you be connecting R2 to D2?
No. CP should connect to 3O.