A more DYNAMIC Religious System for EU5?!
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
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#LordLambert #ParadoxTinto #EU5 - Hry
'Never reroll' implies one roll to me.
yeah first roll is the one throughout the battle, whether that involves different phases or not
The religion in Bosnia is Krstjani, it's an obscure branch of Christianity about which we know sadly little because few records survive. It emerged because poor organisation and communication hindered the firm establishment of the Catholic hierarchy within Bosnia (despite nominally being within the jurisdiction of Rome), resulting in a de facto independent Bosnian Church, which then officially declared its independence from Rome in the 13th century in protest of the pope's decision to place them under the jurisdiction of the Hungarian archdiocese of Kalocsa - with the Hungarians having previously attempted to bring Bosnia under their rule through crusades after accusing the Bosnians of heresy.
It's unclear how exactly their doctrine and practices differed from the Catholics and Orthodox, but both considered whatever differences there were to be unacceptable.
man, and here i was hoping we'd see bosnian slavic pagans...
Ah you probably have the right of it, I think it was a tiny bit of bogomilism
As latest research shows it was most likely based on Arian principles as Arius with his supporters fled to Illyria after the Council of Niceaea and found refuge there and spread the faith. Bosnia was essentialy inbetween Eastern and Western Empire, it was not actually within the borders of either, the border of the Western Empire were drawn on the Western borders of todays Bosnia, and the borders of the Eastern Empire were on the Drina river, todays eastern border of Bosnia. This never changed and Bosnia was truly a no mans land ever since hence neither the West or the East would meddle in the affairs inside of Bosnia, both religious and political.
Bosnia was the center of heresy ever since then as well. For example the Cathar leaders fled to Bosnia after the Albigensian crusade was done, and this was confirmed by one of the Papal leaders of the time. There was also a university that was formed in Bosnia where heretical ideas tended to spread from and most heretics from all over Europe would flee to Bosnia during persecussion. University of Bosnia was established some time before 1100s.
There are 4 historical sources that mention the University of Bosnia, all are held in the Vatican library today.
Only after the weakening of the Byzanties did the Pope and Hungary dare to launch a crusade against Bosnia, this was in late 1200s early 1300s, but all the crusades failed miserabely and essentialy led to Bosnia becoming de jure independent, as it was de facto independent pretty much always, during Ban Ninoslav and later King Tvrtko I.
@@1HUSEINKAPETAN1 Many thanks, thats quite interesting!
I was very sad to see the return of the international placeholder: 'Animism', but thankfully in the comments Johan clarified that it is a WiP and will be split up.
My thought on the Calvin combat was that they start the combat with a die roll (like normal) but it remains as that value for every tick of the combat
Whats this only a 13min video covering a dev diary who are you and what have you done with lambert
Where is my 2 hour wednesday ramble??
we riot?
@@azirus we riot
It is too good to see that many mechanics of MEIOU and TAXES 3.0 will be implemented in base EU5.
I'd assume the Calvinist-thing simply means they only roll once. If they roll a 9 in the first phase of the battle they keep that 9 for the entire battle rather than re-rolling for each phase. The epitome of high-risk high-reward gameplay. Either you win big or you lose hard.
If so then turning calvinist will make us embrace our true gambler spirits
That could be either crazy good or horribly bad 😂
I think having missonaries abstracted into religious infrastructure is a good change. Rather then having to send a single priest to convert a single provience at a time. spending ducets to build churchs increasing clergy pops in a location which speeds up conversion speed i think is better.
Very cool to see that Inti culture and religion will have mechanics at launch, good to see new world flavor already!
The religion in Bosnia is probably Krstjani and the little spots of what you called "Miaphysitism" is Bogomilism, which should be quite common in the Balkans as a minority religion :D
Very glad to see the new conversion mechanics, never made sense to me to have a couple of abstract ‘missionaries’ going around one province at a time. This feels much more interesting and dynamic, especially with added affects like the Madrasa building increasing literacy.
I think it would be extra good if you could send missionaries to OTHER countries which will add conversion pressure onto their pops. As this is how a lot of missionaries esspecially towards the 1600s acted
There's actually not any new Protestant branches here, as Calvinism is what EU4 called "Reformed" and Lutheranism is what they called "Protestant", and obviously Anglican and Hussite were in EU4
The religion in Bosnia should be Bogomilism, a heresy from 9th century Bulgaria, that stuck for some time to the Balkans and was even found in western Europe. That's sadly all I remember from my high school history 😅😅
I believe they are called Kristjani. And they were under Rome's jurisdiction, but due to the isolation of Bosnia at the time they essentially formed their own church which declared separance from rome in the 1300s. Due to Bogomilists existing in the area they were largely lumped in with the Bogomilists, dispatched of. And then mostly forgotten as a footnote in the hsitory books.
These maps make me so happy for this game.
I can't wait for sicily to be named sicily and not Trinacria
Look at how narrow the populated areas around the Nile look. That is really cool.
My guess on Calvinism is that you are allowed to reroll your dice one per battle or smth like that but I'm not really sure.
Btw, I was watching Quarbit's stream and came across the mention of the cabinet that I was sure it was somewhere but couldn't find when you asked about it.
From Dev diary 4:
"Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions."
EUV is going away from the board game model that EUI-VI and is a full blown civilizational-simulation game at this point
I hope much of the animist on the map is a placeholder. It seems strange that north america would have so much diversity yet all of south america and sub saharan africa is just "animist"
I assume it is so, the faith of the Incas is mentioned but it was not shown on the map.
It is. They said that it's all work in progress and will be added with more religions (including some changes to existing ones as I understood).
@@Old_Sealand
good to hear thanks for the info. 👍
To be honest i am a bit disappointed some of the more common heretic rebels from EU4 like Waldesians and Lollards aren't in the game as seperate religions.
Lollardy is in.
Haha Lambert now you got me, fine ill comment.
I love you!
all the lovely colours
I hope they give us more stylized menus. The menus in Vicky 3 and CK3 look boring compared to older games.
I assumed the never reroll means that the first d10 roll is what you're stuck with. So if you roll a 1 you are stuck with that for every battle phase. Which is a pretty interesting take on the whole predestination thing.
It's cool that religion is directly working with other mechanics instead of being just modifiers. Really excited to see what else comes!
ngl having that first diceroll be set is a very interesting concept
I don't think it's more protestants sadly. Anglicans, Calvanists, and Lutherians roughly translate to anglicans, reformed, and protestants in EU4.
Bogomilism, Lollardy, and Nestorians are herasies which pre-date protestantism, Miaphysites are Copts, Strigolnichestvo seems to be an offshoot of Orthodoxy (maybe proto-protestant), and as others have said, the Krstjani were bosnian and not much is known about them.
I agree, the artwork I’ve seen so far looks amazing and gives me hope for the rest of the game.
I think missionaries should be a thing, in so far as organised, coordinated missions to convert particular areas or regions were a thing that happened, but they should not be like EU4 where you just have an agent lying around who is guaranteed to change the religion of everyone in 17 months. Perhaps it should be more like the EU4 state edict, where you can pay a big cost to give a big buff to the passive conversion speed.
Perhaps being able to spend alot of resources to establish a regional 'Center of Conversion' like the Center of reformation mechanic but only gives buffs to the conversion speed of that region that it is setup in.
Finland marked 100 % catholic in 1337 is pretty insane. There were like a handful of churches and congregations in the country. And the control the Swedish crown held over Finland did not reach the eastern interior, nor anything north of river Pyhäjoki. Sámi population should be way more widely spread, too. Gotta hit them with some feedback.
The map being coloured catholic doesnt mean it is 100% catholic, only that more than 51% of the pops there are catholic
@@Lord_Lambert Fair enough. Gotta wait and see what they've come up with. I did post on the thread just in case.
If never roll as a gameplay thing is in the game. Then the stuff modders can do will be Insane
I'm guessing conversion uses buildings like imperator, but maybe there are edicts like vic 3 which further increases the conversion speed.
Imagine if it was just one diceroll for Calvanists and you're stuck on a 0 roll for a huge battle
I personally hope for a basic character system, as in characters represented separately from their position, since it allows for some interesting things like pretenders in foreign courts and is much more flexible for modding. At the same time it shouldn't be a large micromanagy like CK or even Imperator.
Perhaps animated 2D character portraits with family trees.
looks promising, although clearly still a work in progress. Great video !
o7
It's unfortunate that kindred, enemy, and negative are preset according to Pavia. Some nations should have the protestant denominations be negative rather than enemy, like The Netherlands. Or how about the United States(let's say its formed early)? Kindred, enemy and negative is where the real meat is me thinks.
He said that some is is static some isn’t. I imagine heretics are more dynamic
If characters are more of a thing in EU5 I pray they use a 2D art style like CK3 or the new game Great Houses of Calderia, it just has so much more charm and style than the 3D plato blobs of CK3 and Vicky 3.
I'm holding out hope that they'll add the Yazidis, Druze, and Alawites to the Middle East, they'll make the region waaaaay more dynamic imo.
Not sure how I feel about dice rolls coming back. On one hand I wish they'd come up with a more complex and dynamic battle system but on the other hand I can understand that there needs to be some sort of luck/rng modifier to represent the unpredictability of real life war.
I do want to keep missionaries. They can be reworked as lambert has said and id like that. I’d prefer we don’t just get the imperator system of conversion. Aslong as we have missionaries that give a boost to conversion in the area we send em to, this game will have the best religion system in my opinion.
It's probably Krstjani religion in Bosnia
All those religious enclaves dotted around the map means that there are going to be a lot of unique starting countries. For example, there appears to be a few provinces of Hussite in Bohemia at game start. This will certainly add to replayability.
Calvinism mechanics seem a bit gamey to me, but I can dig it. But I would only consider it for a mostly peaceful game, it sounds like it can seriously screw up battle in the long-run.
Definitely wont be Hussite, as that began in iirc 1403 or 1404
Hi Lambert,
I tried to share my opinion on the forum but unfortunately paradox website runs out some issues
I read on the first sentences that people must adhere to a religion. However, starting with Renaissance and booming during the XVIIIth century, the movement of the Libre pensée, agnostic and atheist were spreading ( particularly inside the Nobility and Bourgeoisie )
Deism ( linked to Freemason) was also propagating
As a consequence, do you know if Paradox wants to implement a special mechanism for this ?? ( for example universities or Salon / aristocratic housings spreading « free or philosophic » ideas
🔥
I think that mean the batle is dice by the first roll if you roll 0 you would have it untile the end if you roll 9 same
The religious movement in the balkans could be Bogomilism (a heretical branch of the ortodox chirch). Most of those who practise the religion are left in Bosnia and Herzegovina until they were eradicated by the Ottoman empire. The movment started in Bulgaria.
Church of bosnia wasnt bogomolist/pateren
I think it's krstjani , which is what the Bosnian church is represented as in ck3. The red lines in the Balkans are likely bogomil
First and love the religion mechanics, love how EU5 is so far
Interested why the opinion section says the same thing twice. Yk Catholicism says Kindred Kindred. If that is a case of "this is current opinion, this is equilibrium" it is poorly communciated and tbh I think I'd prefer a numerical opinion value if that is what it is trying to say.
Generally, wouldn't want that though, kinda silly to think of Catholicism having -54 relations with the Anglican church or somethn.
I think either the opinion can be bi directional, or the other is like their opinion of your nation, not the religion.
"All these new protestants "
There is the same amount of protestants in that list - just a lot more pre-protestant movements
8:29 its coptic
Cheers :) I have a memory disorder so I just randomly forget things at times.
@@Lord_Lambert you are more the welcome also i say in the comments that there are norse pops
Is that a Viking in Greenland?
Coptic is the religion that Ethiopia has in eu4
The religion in the Bosnian area could very well be the Bosnian Church. They never really submitted to either Orthodox or Catholicism
0:47 It’s not that it changed in 100 years, it’s more so the EU4 religious/cultural map wasn’t very accurate
I'm guessing the Balkan religion is like bogomilism or similar.
Although take this with a grain of salt given Kristiani was teased too, which seems more likely.
comment
Lord Lambert, I immediately felt a shudder run up my spine at your whole "maybe you could send a missionary" thing. As someone who's done a few One Faiths, I say no, no, no. If EU5 has even half the amount of pointless and tedious clicking that EU4 does, I swear I'm gonna get Carpal tunnel syndrome.
cant you automate the missionaries?
Having a court priest with their own set of bishops that will go around your nation spreading your version of the word of god doesnt sound like gameplay to you? :P
@@Lord_Lambert As long as I'm not clicking five thousand times to convert my country, all is well lol. :)
1:22 Krscani.. "heretics" of bosnia
yet Krscani in ex-yu means Christians xD
u bosni su bogumili preteca katara koji su se preselili u francusku
Are we sure that the Calvinists not re-rolling thing wasn't just a joke? The "since everything is pre-ordained" makes it sounds like a joke to me.
Will they add maronites to Lebanon? or will it be considered Catholic? either way the Levant looks too muslim for this time, Islam had only just become the majority in this area.
I’ll be glad if we just get names and pictures the 3d characters in Vicky 3 fooking suck. They look like sims. I get it in ck3 but leave them out of the other games, please.
2D animated portraits like CK2 might be a good balance.
@@Napoleon1123 yes the portraits of ck2 or imperator are fine. Really don’t care if they’re animated or not but the 3d characters are an abomination.
Man, my hype finally died down a bit. They said they wanted this game to be simulation first, the dice rolls in battles is one of the most stupid things in EU4. I really hoped they would'nt bring it back...
Islam and Judaism should not be labeled Heathen - Sami Shaminism would rightfully be consider heathen as it is a pagan religion in the technical sense of the word.
Pagan is from the word latin paganus 'of the country' which broadly speaking is just the opposite of urbanus 'of the city'. Ancient Romans and Greeks would refer to unorganized superstitious folk religion as pagan. On the onset of the Islamic expansion many Christian writers both east and west classified Islam as a heresy which is probably more appropriate. However I can understand how that would cause confusion given the game is centered around the protestant reformation. Whatever religion is complicated.
I think you may be right de jure, but de facto in places like anatolia or Iberia, they were very much treated as heathens.
Another thing is I understand why people are upset about the WIP animist and want flavor for each region, but let's be honest, how many players are actually going to play the different tribal nations to experience the flavor? Considering the finite Dev time, I hope they put the majority of effort into Europe, Middle East/North Africa, India, China, and Japan. Which is already a lot to ask, but then they can add flavor to the tribes in a later DLC.
That part is WIP as all heck, but youre right, those areas are going to be some of the least played regardless of how much effort the devs put into it.
I will play it all
I'm guessing that instead of sending missionaries, you will construct buildings like the Spanish missions in California, and that those are implicitly staffed by missionaries, with their effectiveness being determined by a clergy-derived Vicky3-like capacity.