The Trinitarian "bias" in Bible translations with Professor Sean Finnegan
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2021
- Sean Finnegan is a professor at the Atlanta Bible College USA, teaching classes on theology and church history. He is also the president of Living Hope International Ministries (lhim.org), a biblical unitarian network of churches and fellowships. Additionally, he hosts Restitutio (restitutio.org), a weekly podcast focused on restoring unitarian Christianity. He lives in the Albany-area of New York. He holds an MTS in Early Christian History from Boston University, a BA in Theology from Atlanta Bible College.
Check out his CZcams channel: • How We Got the Bible
For more information about biblical unitarianism, visit restitutio.org/category/unita...
Sean Finnegan is a fantastic man of faith. His videos and teachings are superb.
Interesting to finally hear a unitarian Christian scholar discussing about the Bible verses, in its original languages.
It's worth looking into the history of unitarianism and its relationship with Biblical translation at the same time. Thomas Belsham was arguably the first to have a go in 1808, with a translation so biased towards unitarianism that it was rejected by major unitarians as being "untenable". This approach to scripture increasingly led to fractures among unitarians, resulting in the fracturing of the community into two opposing camps: “... in the 1830s James Martineau and some younger Unitarians led a revolt against biblical Unitarianism and its dogmas. ... They found religious authority in reason and conscience, rather than in a biased interpretation of Scripture. Henceforth the Unitarians were rather sharply divided into an older, ‘biblical’, and newer, ‘spiritual’, wing. The new group was well on the way to eclipsing the ‘biblical’ wing by 1850” (Lion’s History of Christianity, p. 505).
From there we need to look at what happened with Biblical unitarianism, which Sean Finnegan subscribes to. In order to understand the fundamental difference between this approach and the more traditional (orthodox) reading of scripture, one only has to listen to what they themselves have posited: “reason is the ultimate appeal, the supreme tribunal, to the test of which even Scripture must be brought.” (James Martineau, 1836). An admission of the necessary variance between the Bible and unitarianism was made by noted unitarian Dr. George E. Ellis (1814-1894) of Harvard Divinity School in a lecture in 1882: "Fifty years of study, thought and reading given largely to the Bible and to the literature which peculiarly relates to it, have brought me to this conclusion, that the book - taken with the especial divine quality and character claimed for it, and so extensively assigned to it, as inspired and infallible as a whole, and in all its contents-is an Orthodox book. It yields what is called the Orthodox creed. The vast majority of its readers, following its letter, its obvious sense, its natural meaning, and yielding to the impression which some of its emphatic texts make upon them, find in it Orthodoxy. Only that kind of ingenious, special, discriminative, and in candor I must add, forced treatment, which it receives from us liberals can make the book teach anything but Orthodoxy. "
This is pretty damning. Unless you are willing to impose your philosophy on scripture, and thereby be forced to arbitrarily discard or distort or take out of context anything which disagrees with your position. Which appears to be exactly what both Paul and Sean Finnegan are forced to do in order to protect their beliefs.
From there it's pretty easy to discard many orthodox beliefs, simply by claiming that those passages supporting them must have been mistranslated, misunderstood, or corrupted. Not a particularly coherent approach, and one which begs the question as to whether their objections to any sort of religious teaching are based in their own philosophical assumptions or are actually based on scripture.
It is on this basis that we find unitarians have been at the forefront of historical criticism of the Bible. Not for scholarly research, but to find a way of gaining legitimacy for their beliefs.
On that basis the title of the video, accusing orthodox translators of bias, is a bit rich.
@@HarlanK I thought Sean was a professor. On that basis he studies scriptural subjects and theology, and indeed lectures on these subjects. If that doesn't make him a scholar then I'd be interested to know what disqualifies him from being one.
@@mikehutton3937 erm... so what do you do if you feel uncomfortable with the fundamental creeds or dogmas of a religion - force yourself to just go with the flow, heartlessly of course, or find fulfilment in an alternative perspective that sits well with your reasoning? There seems to be an unyielding rigidity in your stance which appears to say take it, warts and all, or leave it. It could be argued that it is this stance which has forced many to leave it, and turn their backs on religion altogether.
@@sumardon That's a tricky one, because it largely depends on what your approach to faith and religion is.
If you want to treat faith as a tool so you can feel good about yourself, then minor considerations like integrity and evidence won't matter too much to you. You can pretty much make up anything you like and just pretend everyone else is wrong.
If you want to treat faith/religion as a philosophical or academic exercise, then starting with philosophy and your own presuppositions is popular, and this then leads on to approaching scripture primarily from the basis that you are looking to find support for your axioms within various scriptures. You will then pick the scriptures which best support your position, while discarding any which are inconvenient. This seems to be the approach of Unitarians, and this by their own admission.
If you want to go further than this and found a geopolitical movement based on your foundational starting point, you could always do what Muhammad did, grafting a new religion onto two older ones, and using something like abrogation / conspiracy theories to de-legitimize the parts of the old religions you don't like, so you can supplant them with what you see are better ones. Yes, this is a pejorative view of Islam (and Mormonism and a number of other faiths for that matter), but it is only an extension of what the Unitarians are doing.
If, however, you are actively seeking God, then you have to start with a blank slate, and take scripture at face value. Because ultimately if you, as a fallible individual, define who/what God is and what he/she/it is like, then you'd have to be pretty lucky to get things randomly right enough for it to be of any use whatsoever. All you will end up doing is worshiping your own (or someone else's) philosophy, rather than the Almighty God most of us here seem to want to encounter.
Ultimately the question comes down to whether you want to trust peoples' past experiences of the divine, and follow these as best you can with a degree of humility and patience, or instead trust to your own intellect and experience. The advantage of the former, particularly when you're looking at the Bible, is that you have the cumulative experience of generation upon generation of people to call upon, compared to possibly up to half a lifetime. Which do you think is likely to be more reliable?
It is for this reason that I nail my colours to the prior experience of the Jews and Christians, and regard those who want to skew what has been handed down to us from their experience with a degree of suspicion, not to say incredulity. For ultimately if we are going to search for God, the very last place we are likely to find Him is where we are most inclined to look, and what we encounter is most likely to be totally at odds with our expectations. That's certainly been my experience up to now.
@@mikehutton3937 erm... I think we need to be a little fair in our arguments. I don't think it' would be anywhere near fair to say to Sean Finnegan, "minor considerations like integrity and evidence won't matter too much to you. You can pretty much make up anything you like and just pretend everyone else is wrong." He based his arguments on integrity, consistency and evidence from the Bible.
People may very well have "the cumulative experience of generation upon generation of people to call upon" but should they throw away the scripture and blindly follow the age old experience irrespective of how such experience came about? Take the Eucharist, for example, I wonder if 100% of Christians still partake of the bread and wine. And of those that do I wonder if they all consider the bread and wine to be literally the body and blood of Jesus. If they do, would it be to such an extent that if even the tiniest crumb of bread or drop of wine were to fall onto the floor they would feel obliged to retrieve it and treat it as if it were literally a part of the body or blood of Jesus?
Thank you so much for bringing in a unitarian Christian .
Thanks again br Paul great guest and great host .
To skip the ads all you need to do is go to the final seconds of the video, let it play out and then press reply, then you will be able to see the whole video without ads.
Wow!
or you could just use adblocker.
Didn't know that, thank you! :) However, I did subscribe to have an ads free experience. Especially, these kind of channels hehe...
Don't tell Paul lmao
Too late 😁
I stumbled upon Dr. Finnegan's lecture on the trinity yesterday and today you're interviewing him! What are the odds? Fascinating stuff.
Are you a muslim Lisa? If not, perhaps it's a sign 😊
Another gem of a video brother Paul! Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Golden insight about circular reasoning.. ive never thought of it that way.. that trinitarian translate bowing as worship because they believe that jesus pbuh is god, but later use the same word to prove jesus divinity.. in reality they prove nothing, they've just gone right back to their presumption thinking they had an evidence.
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They do the same thing with the Arabic translation of the gospels in order to make arguments against Muslims
One Christian pastor with a PhD in theology told me once that all arguments are circular. That's when I gave up on listening to anything he wanted to tell me.
@@dmwallacenz I thought about what you said, I think the best approach to anything you're trying to prove is to try and prove it false, and if you can't then you've proven it true.
E.g. 1+1 = 2
But the argument can be made that we're just coming in with the belief that it already equals 2 and our logic is circular.
Then instead try proving 1+1 = 5 or any other number besides 2, and if you can't prove it then 1 + 1 is indeed equal to 2.
Apply this concept to all things, physics, history, religion, existential questions and it can be a good tool I think.
If someone says we don't exist, and you say we do and they accuse you of circular reasoning, ask them to prove that we don't exist, and when they fail, then you know we exist.
No @Razor MAN, I couldn't agree less. I can't prove that there are no aliens living on an undiscovered planet on the other side of our galaxy. But that doesn't imply that there ARE such aliens. Also, I can't prove that there ARE aliens, but that doesn't imply that there aren't.
Incidentally, a mathematician called Gödel has proved that there'll always be things that we can't prove TRUE or prove FALSE.
Another awesome discussion
Thank you Paul, this channel certainly should have more viewers.. certainly a shining star in youtube. Thank you
I love this guy he's so well read ❤
@ 58:53 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Beneficial, insightful conversation
Exposing foul play in bible translation by evangelicals. 👍❤️
I pray that Allah swt helps our christian brothers get rid of the false pagan trinity from this world as fast as possible and christendom will flourish that way both parties will be satisfied and we will have a healthier relationship
"And when Allah said: “O ‘Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you (false charges) of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute.” 3:55.
@@mohamedelkabbash6492 💜
bro Paul! would you mind to release some shorts on this video later on?
yes good idea
As usual, Sean is right-down-the-barrel once again. Great discussion - on both ends.
"And (remember) when Allah will say: "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my innerself though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the AllKnower of all that is hidden and unseen. "Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things." 5:116-117
czcams.com/video/wFt-YYFiWJA/video.html
How come Alla has wrong understanding of Trinity. This show that Quran has a issues. It is not correct.
@@rajeshshetty4862 you fool, the Quran is not referring to the trinity here, you are incorrect have serious issues
@@purplerain2205 it clearly show the book you follow is the reason you have turned into this kind of person. With limited knowledge and culture you will pronounce your judgement. The verse mentioned talks about the believing in other then Alla ,Mary and Jesus as God. Which is wrong understanding of Quran and hence it can't be from God.
I know you won't understand because it needs education which is lacking in you. Grow up and get some help.
@@rajeshshetty4862 Everything you’re claiming that the other person is doing is something you’re actively doing yourself. It’s called projection. Study some psychology. Since you love education and are way ahead of all of us, go ahead and read the Quran in full and please explain what you think is wrong or what the Quran’s author didn’t understand. Please enlighten us with some facts since you’ve spent so much time learning and must have logic to your grand claims. So far you’ve just uttered words like an insecure drunkard.
This is an very interesting video! I haven't watched it all yet (because it is quite long!) but it's very interesting, and I've learnt some new things already... Also, I never knew that are a network of unitarian Churches out there. It made me happy to think that at least some Christians are holding on to a more accurate version of their faith.
In fact there are a number of Biblical unitarian church networks around.
Try looking at the Unitarian Christian Alliance where we are all trying to work together to promote the one God doctrine. In the UK, the largest group is the Christadelphians, who are also all around the world.
@@daviddebbyfenton8802 Wow, interesting! Also, during the 1500s, there was a Unitarian church in Romania (which was under Ottoman control at the time.)
The biblical unitarian view is one that is very old, arguably the original view known as dynamic monarchian in the second century.
And although suppressed by the Roman Church, it has popped up here and there throughout history. In Rumania, Poland, Switzerland, etc. etc.
It's a simpler reading of the scriptures, in that it chooses to ignore the later speculations that became the 381+ creeds.
It tried to keep to the idea that the new testament is a proper continuation of the old. With the law being replaced with a heartfelt obedience to Christ, who replaces Moses as the voice of God.
@@purpleatit1 Interesting! Ibn Iftikhar and other good historians have recorded the history of early Christianity with a lot of detail.
To be fair, I think it's obvious that Jesus' original teachings were in fact Islam.
Belief in One God, obedience to Him, refraining from sins and breaking God's law, etc. If you want I can show you some evidence of the connection. :D
Have a good day!
You know what Paul? You're alright bro! 🤗
❤️
Dear Paul,
please activitate the auto english translation (cc) option. this will help us alot during watching the podcast.
CZcams changed. Click the cc to turn on. Then go to settings tab on video and click on auto translate to pick language. Unless he has some strange settings I don't know about, this is the fix. The cc must be turned on first, then changed in settings on the video.
I have heard Sean Finnegan earlier. I admire this christian scholar a lot. I was so glad Paul had brought him on BT. Thanks.
The CZcams channels "Trinity Delusion" and "21st Century Reformation" are good on Biblical Unitarian beliefs too.
Once you see the truth, it gets more and more obvious because God blesses those who humbly share truth and reveals more and more truth to them.
As Jesus says in Matthew 7, the way is "narrow" that leads to life and FEW find it...
The majority are ALWAYS wrong!
Thanks for your insightful videos
Could shed light on how prophets pray
Form old and New Testament
I was waiting for this 😀🙏
One question aren't you ever scared that your faith will not prevail or that islam will take over don't you want the massage of the kingdom of God and that jesus is the son of god not god to prevail and flourish
@@theguyver4934 what matters is our relationship with our maker and our hearts. Atheists and cultists will be in for a shock
@@ExploreTanakh84 - But what if a muslim came to you and said that the holy Bible is not the word of God or that the new testament is not reliable what would be your response to that
@@theguyver4934 I've known Muslims for a long time and have had many dialogues. Many people have not studied the Bible and Qur'an. The worst ones are those who claim to be Atheists. I know people who only take the opinions of their friends or skeptic researchers and don't match it with their claims. It doesn't bother me if someone doesn't agree. I read scholarship and historical evidence.
@@ExploreTanakh84 - Pray with me that Yahweh bless christendom with thousands of people like sir isaac newton
sheeeeeesh paul nice video as always
Great work Paul! Hope people transform through your videos. InshaAllah!
Very interesting discussion.
Bravo! 👏 Now let's hear what you have to say about the biblical contradictions in the crucfixion account. Just a little bit more digging and we'll finally be in complete agreement Insha Allah.
I have seen those so called contradictions being addressed in a fair manner plus people have said that there contradictions in the quran as well and I'm saying that as a muslim
@@theguyver4934 please delineate those contradictions in Quran so we can view it from a Christian standpoint ...... Thanks ...
And don't do a mcguyver on us ,as everyone who claims these tall claims of Quranic contradictions disappears faster than Casper
What "contradictions"???
Mashallah blessings may Allah guide him into the fold of Islam ☪️
CRESCENT AND STAR DO NOT REPRESENT ISLAM IN ANY WAY! IN FACT, ISLAM DOES NOT HAVE ANY ICON!
@@nurousek123 So, what is your point?
John’s actually correct there is no symbol in Islam and this is why the Tahwhid the absolutely monotheistic unsymbolised Incomparable unity of God is the centrality of Belief.
For that we have to accept that Mohammed is a prophet of God.
I will never believe Islam for the same reason I will never believe Mormonism.
The Mormon book, The Book of Mormon, has sections that are clearly plagiarised from the King James translation of the Bible that Joseph Smith had available to him in his time, complete with translation errors ...and yet it was supposed to have been translated from Egyptian plates straight from God.
Likewise, Mohammed plagiarised from Rabbinical writings, Jewish fables, Christian fables, and even pagan fables of his time ...and yet were supposed to have been narrated to him straight from God.
They are both obviously fraudulent. Jesus warned us about False Prophets, and that we were to "test out" every inspired word to see i they were really from God.
Nice discussion brother Paul..☝️
58:23 I was raised Catholic and I’m very well studied in Catholic doctrine. I have converted to Christian Unitarian belief after many years of study. It’s possible! We just need more good pebbles in more shoes.
Amen!
Great conversation. It's hilarious, however, that I got two or more advertisement interruptions for some Mohammedans nonsense during your conversation. Does CZcams really think this is something that which Christians would find interesting?
This is a totally different level of dialogue. Standard is very high.
I thought when Sean said you cant pin the blame on Jesus for people after him making him divine, Paul would quote the famous Quranic verse where Allah asks Isa alaihissalam whether he and his mother claimed to be god and isa alayhissalam eloquently denied it.
Nobody in Jesus' day was trying to claim Jesus was God, so there was no reason for him to be asked or for him to deny it. That issue didn't come up until after he was dead, and after Paul and others started converting gentiles en masse. Then there were those of pagan philosophical thought that tried to bring in things such as the trinity and gnosticism. Some succeeded, others didn't.
However, this was actualy prophesied. Jesus said the true and false Christians would remain together until the "time of the harvest" (Matthew 13: 24-30, 36-43)
He doesn't need to quote anything except the Bible because it's on almost every page that Jesus is the SON OF GOD.
Even GOD HIMSELF declares it TWICE: during the baptism of Jesus and also the Transfiguration.
Trinitarians are blinded to the HUNDREDS of verses in the New Testament which declare the identity of Jesus because they make a wilful choice to trust MAN and the tradition of MEN (through church tradition and teachings of the Roman Catholic "church", Calvin, Luther etc) instead of trusting God through His son, Jesus.
Here's another Sean Finnegan video about problems with the Trinity: czcams.com/video/yDGNGWf2buM/video.html
I pray that Yahweh through his holy spirit brings rise to biblical unitarianism and make it flourish till the day of resurrection
Thanks Sean. Very informative. Just what I was looking for as a Jehovah Witness. I think I am a dynamic monarchist but not sure if I got that right. Your videos are the best. Right to the point. Also enjoyed your mentioning of the NW translation. Other sites like Bible Hub won’t even give it a mention.
Hi! I’m also a JW and enjoy Sean’s talks. Are you still attending at the kingdom hall?
*_When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood, by its nature bound to perish. (The Noble Quran 17:81) Unitarians should take a step forward and research Islam. Professor Finnegan is a worthy guest._*
WHY WOULD WE CHRISTIANS WANT TO TRY TO EARN OUR SALVATION BY BECOMING MUSLIM? JESUS CHRIST LIVED A SINLESS LIFE AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED TO HIS SHEEP. I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE BY GOD‘S GRACE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.
@@dwashington1333no human being is sinless including Jesus. There seems to be issues with translation or BIAS when it comes to Jesus. The Quran is here to give you the truth and the triune dual natured god-man who let his creation kill him with hammers, nails, and wood is a LIE...
This was a good discussion, Sean was accurate when he meant to go to the original language, at least what the text says in the grammatical frame of reference.
Brother Paul is doing excellent job of dawah without the disturbance of unruly speaker corner Christian hecklers .
Look who's talking you think we're always the good guys it's okay for muslims to give invitation to christians but when they do it there bigots
Brother Paul is already an outstanding scholar of Comparative Religions. I actually subscribe to both Blogging Theology and Rev. Sean's channel (Christian Monotheism) on my other channel.
Anyone interested in the studies on Ignatius letters read " Ignatius and the arian controversy" by Paul Gilliam III who was a student of Bart Ehrman. He proves without a doubt that the letters have been altered to harmonize Ignatius subordinationism to post arianism trinitarian creeds.
Thanks a lot for the tip! I heard a couple of times that Ignatius was uphold to advocate a trinitarian view.
Good discussion
Brilliant 👍🏼
(فَٱسۡجُدُوا۟ لِلَّهِ وَٱعۡبُدُوا۟ ۩) [سورة النجم 62]
So prostrate to Allah and worship [Him]. (53:62)
I'm not unitarian but a non-trinitarian and this is quite true. Trinitarian bias is a real thing.
@Boo not really
I would dare say the the trinitarian bias along with the Unitarian truth created the oneness doctrine also referred to as modalism
I heard him before
Very knowledgeable
I pray that Allah swt helps our christian brothers get rid of the false pagan trinity from this world as fast as possible and christendom will flourish that way both parties will be satisfied and we will have a healthier relationship
May Allah give brother Paul long life and strengthen his imam..ameen
Jesus is the SON OF GOD.
@@leenieledejo6849 ...OUR FATHER who are in heaven.... Jesus pbuh is as son of god as other people....
He's not the only "son of God" in that sense... and is not the "son of God" in the pagan/divinizing sense... there is no proof for that interpretation coming from Jesus...
Gezundheit.
Hi Paul and Sean, at around 35th minute in the video, where you're talking about the word for 'gods', is this word "elohim" in Hebrew?
Yes. What trinitarians DONT understand is that words like “worship” “god” etc., had BROADER applications BACK then. We as students of the Bible must remember we must APPLY our thinking and heart to THEIR point of view having THEIR culture and MINDSET of THEIR time. As a Jehovah’s Witness many times I’ve been “accused” of “believing” in MORE than ONE God. The fact is that SCRIPTURE and YHWH himself calls men, angels and judges “God/Elohim”. (psalm 8:5; 82:1,6; John 10:34-36; Hebrews 2:9)
Paul, you mentioned the NRSV as the academic standard work. I always thought it was Nestle-Aland's novum testamentum Graece?
The NRSV is a translation. The other is the Greek text.
@@BloggingTheology my copy of novum testamentum has the english translation. I guess the differences with NRSV will be minor. I will get me a copy one time.
@@theCordobaProject I don't know which version you got of the greek Novum Testamentum Graece, but I am pretty sure that the english translation in there is not published by the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft. It is surely some other english translation which is paired with the greek text.
I agree wholeheartedly with the discussion here. And also that some concepts regarding God actually dishonor him because lack of rational thought leads to Scripture twisting, either by the biased translator, or the lay person who "wants to believe".
Can you do a video about mathematical code that already existed and founded later in quran
Please replay i heard that exit in quran plz replay
As a non Trinitarian
The HEAVENLY FATHER bestowed on HIS SON'S NAME A NAME THAT IS ABOVE EVERY NAME
At that NAME "JESUS " ALL WILL BOW
To the GLORY OF THE FATHER AMEN
the Blessed LORD is the only way to the FATHER Amen
The Blessed LORD is the first creation of the HEAVENLY FATHER Amen
For GOD so loved the world that HE sent HIS only BEGOTTEN SON
And Whosoever believeth in HIM "JESUS" shall be saved 🙏
How do you explain Messianic prophesies, such as in Isaiah?
Rev chapter 5 clearly shows all of creation in heaven and on earth worshiping the Father and the Son at the same time
what does 1 chr 29:20 show about worshipping david and the father at the same time?
Thanks!
That is exactly what Ahmed Deedat was saying for years to Christian missionaries ..... Well hearing this is not that new. Thank you for this important job your doing sir.
❤️
This debate about Jesus PBUH being god is pointless because there is no where in the holy Bible where Jesus PBUH is called the creator of the universe but don't mention ahmed deedat he was a very arrogant man and I'm saying that as a muslim
@@theguyver4934 But there are hundreds of verses that say Jesus is the son of God (including dozens by himself) and that you cannot know Father God unless you know Jesus.
Is Papyrus P52 really dated to year 125? I though that was an early error by the guy who first analyzed the manuscript and he involved purely style of writing. As far as I know, more recent scholarship suggest something which is significantly after that.
Paul why did you choose Islam over Unitarian Christianity? Could you possibly make a video about this.
I think reading the Quran will help clear things up in much more depth than his reply likely would.
@@zm7430 My question is out of curiosity. Alhamdulelah I’m a Muslim.
Hello I need English subtitles ( English not my mother language) thanks a lot.
I will try
Thank you so much.
One important example of trinitarian bias in translation is Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah 9:6 (NIV) For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
while in the Jewish chabad dot com translation it's:
For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
This Christian is incredibly knowledgeable AND honest.
He has an interesting point when he says that the Gospel of John being the most unitarian book in the Bible. I just heard yesterday that the earliest commentary on the gospel of John was from a gnostic named Heracleon and I believe they would use it for their own beliefs. GoJ is also considered the most ALIEN of the synoptic gospels because it contains things in it that aren't in the matthew, mark or luke. I think something like 90% of whatever is in the GoJ is ONLY found in GoJ.
OK you have a point about the "trinity" how can you be sure about the rest?
Insightful conversation. Brother Paul what is your view on Gospel of Barnabas? Please do a video on it. I would love to hear your opinion on it
I have done a video on it
@@BloggingTheology just finished watching it, cleared up my confusion regarding the gospel of Barnabas. Thank you brother.
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Matthew 7:22, NIV: "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' " ... We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. '"
Matthew 7:23, KJV: "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23, NASB: "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; LEAVE ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.
Any chance of inviting Sean back?
Yes he kindly agreed to come on again
@@BloggingTheology wonderful news. It would be interesting to know what his awareness is of the Koran and what his thoughts are on Islam? And if it’s immature whether he could look into those issues before another interview :-)
Paul 2:02 I did research on this ! I found it in Old Testament the word proskuneo was translated differently than in New Testament in all nt bibles I will share it with you once it’s complete :) you might like my findings
Great
Salam sir Paul how r u
salam
Brother Paul, I also recommend that you interview Sheikh Uthman ibn Farooq of San Diego, CA USA. You would see his videos in different channels: One Message Foundation, One Message Media and Masjid Ribat.
Paul u hit the spot all the time.,, I was very disappointed with evangelical church and recently even more so on there stance in Palestinians situation and so started thinking about Unitarian theology......
.....Hey presto! ... Here’s ur latest video on Unitarian and trinity comparison.
👍
Which translations have the least amount of bias?
REV
Questions to expose the unreliability of the new testament :
1. Who wrote the gospels?
2. Do we have any autographs?
3. Do you know what an autograph is. Many Christians have no idea.
4. Were the gospels eye witness accounts (what does Luke 1 1-2 say?)
5.what is the earliest manuscript?
6. what date is it from and how big is it?
7. When do you get anything like a complete manuscript?
8. How was the Canon decided?
9. How were the criteria to distinguish Canonical from apocrypha material arrived at?
10. Who made these decisions?
11. How do you know those people were guided by God?
12. What language did Jesus speak?
13. Are the words attributed to him in the NT his verbatim words?
14. If not then how do you know exactly what he said?
15. Why are there so many inconsistencies in the synoptics even when describing the same event or same utterances?
16.if we done know verbatim what Jesus said then why do Christians quote verses like ' before moses was I am' as though that is definitely what Jesus said?
17. Have forged verses been found in the NT?
Do you know the ones generally accepted to be forged?
18. How do you know there aren't more forged verses which haven't been detected?
19. Most of the NT is attributed to Saul. How do you prove that God approves of him and that he is not the great deceiver?
20. How can the mere letters of a man be considered 'scripture'?
How do you God approves of this?
@GameSlack
I hope that was a joke 😅
@@thinkislamcheckmychannel you are a joke
@GameSlack
Christianity is man made and not what Jesus taught.
No point arguing true.
Read the Qur'an
@GameSlack
Mashallah
Assalaamualaikum
@@thinkislamcheckmychannel I’m a Christian. Islam to me makes no sense. Islam believes in hellfire. Eternal punishment. That is completely evil.
I was going to say that the professor's Yoda sounded more like Fozzie Bear, then I remembered that Yoda and Fozzie were voiced by the same actor.
What does Sean Finnegan think about Saint Paul's letters? What do Unitarians think about Saint Paul's theology?
i assume that as protestants we generally affirm sola scriptura so the biblical epistles of paul are infallible. there are probably many places where what is written presents a challenge to any theological system.
one verse in romans comes to mind that in some translations reads "jesus christ, who is god over all, amen" which had me perplexed so i researched and found that it's a punctuational issue since the greek did not have commas and where you put the comma decides if paul is calling jesus god or if he is otherwise praising god and not jesus.
@@xxxViceroyxxx
Are you a unitarian? Do unitarians accepts Paul's letters?
At 35:36, I believe Sean meant John 20:17 (not 20:21).
But v. 21 does say that Jesus is sending the apostles just as the Father (God) sent him.
Indeed it does - most trinitarians do not know this, and do not want to hear it though
Each member of the trinity is supposedly fully God and not a part of God. The obvious problem of course is that the God of the bible is superlative see psalms83:18. Thus there is no one who is equal to him. How then can one be fully God and have three others who are least equal to oneself.
I have never heard someone actually say, "I believe the Jehovahs Witnesses have a good translation."
I left the JWs, but I have always used their Bible as a reference because I believe the same.
Sean is articulate and scholarly no clap trap hyperbole
The creator in the trinity is limited to:
1- a time (current timeline),
2- a race (Adam's race) and
3- a place (Earth).
A creator with such limitations can't function outside it.
By definition, The Creator is a being who's capable of creating anything out of nothing, erase what he creates and bring a brand new creation. The creator in the trinity is a creator, but he is not the creator of everything. Christianity start in the trinity and ends there. This puzzle can't be solved no matter what.
Proud to be a Muslim.
Alastor Moody: "You need to find another place to put your chewing gum besides the underside of your desk, Mr Finnegan."
I pray that Allah swt helps our christian brothers get rid of the false pagan trinity from this world as fast as possible and christendom will flourish that way both parties will be satisfied and we will have a healthier relationship
“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" Numbers 23-19
Interesting conversation, but there are so many ad interruptions which was really annoying.
Very deep insight indeed. But would it be more balance if you get a Trinitarian Priest to speak on the same topic? I would be glad to see this. Great Job Paul
That view is already everywhere.
Bro a word of advice stop making videos about reacting Islamic videos because no muslim would ever do it for you and I'm saying that as a muslim
I was taught “proskuneo” is a lower form of worship. Like people do when they kiss the king’s ring or bowing before someone. Not actual worship which is reserved only for God.
too many commercials!
Paul, u have an open invitation to discuss these topics with both Sam Shamoun and William Allbrecht.
Sean Finnegan and you can set up a livestream with them two.
It will be good to see both views discussed which is highly beneficial for both audiences.
I have received no invitation.
@@BloggingTheology
Hi Mr Williams.
He discussed it on his livestream and said that you know his email.
czcams.com/video/LqqIaUUNUxo/video.html
Wow... I didn't know that translation error of 1 Timothy 3:16. There are so many errors introduced into the Bible to support the Trinity. I keep discovering more as I watch Finnegans videos.
This sounds like a good discussion, but I'm 10.5 minutes in and I've already had 3 ads. It seems excessive. =(
brave browser or ad blocker for your pc
Why so many ads now Paul?
Please understand, all this needs money to operate. Instead of complaining about few seconds of ads, you should be paying him for the free education.
@@wowmyworldy74 You are correct. It's important work.
What does Christmas have to do with CHRIST?
Thank you Dr. Sean for saying this about Jesus peace be upon him, I have always felt sad that Jesus peace be upon him our beloved prophet is accused of telling people to worship him.. and it makes me happy to see a Christian saying that Jesus peace be upon him didn't tell people worship me. May Allah guide us always to the right path always.
There is no where in the holy Bible where Jesus PBUH is called the creator of the universe also trinitarians are not real christians
@@theguyver4934 Yes I read that also, Alhamdulilah.. Its sad to be accused of something totally against your message in life.. I've always felt sad for our beloved prophet Jesus peace be upon him accused of something totally against what his message was all about..
@@Buthyful - We should love and respect all our prophets pbut equally
@@Buthyful - Hello your reply
@@theguyver4934 Hello :) Peace be upon all of Allah's messengers and prophets
What did the 5 dislikers dislike?
They did not hear that jesus is their god.
Assalam alaikum Paul. From Indian illegally occupied Kashmir
What do you mean by illegal
In The Authorized Bible of the Church of the East many corrections are made to the KJV Bible as well as others. One significant correction is that of Isaiah 53:12.
In the RSV we read:
"Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made INTERCESSION for the transgressors."
However, the Peshitta translation reads as follows:
"Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he has poured out his life to death; and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bore the sins of many, and DIED the DEATH OF TRANSGRESSORS ."
This is a huge correction to the text. It changes the meaning of the entire verse. In the RSV he dies as an INTERCESSOR, whereas in the Peshitta he dies as a TRANSGRESSOR.
The Peshitta has been translated from the Aramaic.
💓💓
Who searches for truth will find it inshaAllah
Never knew that about the letters of Ignatius. I took them all to be accurately attributed, never knew those letters might have some corruption. Altho there were some things that were definitely fishy. If I remember right it is claimed or he claimed (dont recall) to be a disciple of the prophet John alahi salam. Thing is unless he lived for like 110 years then that is quite doubtful. For example, presuming he is like 20 years old as a student of John alahi salam that would make him 120 years old by the time he wrote his letters(most tend to be dated around 100 CE.) Average person then only lived to like late 50s if you don't include infant mortality into the equation.
It's fascinating that terms like maji, where terms like her majesty in England called so by people who bow to and accept to live within and bow to the Commonwealths Authority.
That the true meaning of maji, is also where the mythical term magic came from, and now also refers to those who are able to trick other by slight of hand to do seemingly impossible acts that astounded people.
But true Maji carried out did exist and were able to turn up to significant places at the exact time of the birth of a great Prophet and true King of this earth, to verify his honourable right to be a prince amount us, before a single proof existed.
That people should pay attention to those who by inner inspiration made the connection, knowing where to be and able to see the greater truth by following an inner path leading them.
A similar attribute is also mentioned in biblical text referring to the order of Melchesadek, the rightful ones, without place or standing who by the rights given them were Our Creator's Servents who did what was asked of them as and when it was asked.
As did all Prophets and do all true Muslims at their own lesser level of capacity but still completely sincere, willing to accept truth and submit to and following it because inside them their hearts are pure.
Truth and the true meaning of life springs up like seeds become flowers in spring opening up in the hearts of true believers as words that are able to de-scribe them act as keys to convey truth clearly and directly, exactly as the term express de-scribes.
The term language from its Latin source cones from the word for Tongue, language acts a a gauge if our tongues abilities to express the true we are able to see from within our own awareness.
Our Creator has not left us in the dark, there are no co-incidences in life, everything is there for a reason, even the tiniest parts of a flower hold the pollen that is used to spread life.
It is only our own ignorance of the Great hidden plan of Our Creator that allows us to deny His Glory that covers the entire universe and every aspect of every physical element that exists within existence.
The total ignorance and the forgetful nature of humanity is the most astounding aspect of the hypocracy we all live our lives within.
We were all fore given this life yet by having it, have completely for-gotten
Where it comes from.
To receive a gift and not be grateful for it is the worse arrogant evil sin imaginable. It turns people into selfish, self centred people who only care about themselves and w hat else hey can get out of life, before going to that place they deserve to be.
👍
It must be lonely to be a Unitarian Christian. Interesting conversation. It would have been interesting to hear how his theology affects other aspects of Christianity like interactions with trinitarians, his views on Paul and how Unitarianism affects or doesn't affect his view on the vicarious sacrifice. Anyone know if Sean Finnegan explains these implications somewhere else.
I thought he touched on how it affects his interactions with Trinitarians, here. He treats them as brethren
@@ianpaul7895 Yes, my mistake. I saw that at the end but forgot to change my comment.
The Didache also calls David pbuh "son of God".
What he says after 52.30 is much like this verse: And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.