Debate - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Dr. Michael Brown
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- čas přidán 12. 01. 2019
- Dr. Dale Tuggy (Biblical Unitarian) and Dr. Michael Brown (Trinitarian) debate the subject “Is the God of the Bible the Father Alone?” Dale Tuggy defends that there is only one who is the eternal God - the Father himself. Michael Brown proposes that there are three who are one God. Watch the debate and judge for yourself. This debate took place on January 11, 2019 in Concord, North Carolina.
Debate Organizer: Kingdom of God Ministries & Missions - kogmissions.com/
ALSO SEE - Who Do You Say I Am? - by Dr. Dale Tuggy - • Jesus Asked, "Who Do Y...
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For more about Dr. Dale Tuggy - 21stcr.org/author/dale-tuggy/
To purchase Dr. Dale Tuggy's Book "WHAT IS THE TRINITY? Thinking about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" go to: www.amazon.com/What-Trinity-T...
Worshipping = bowing down = respect
David was worshipped, king Saul was worshipped, Joseph was worshipped...search the word bow down...
worship as....?
David and Saul were worshipped as earthly kings.
Idols were worshipped as god.
Jesus was worshipped by his disciples as...?
[Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."]
the wise men worship Jesus as king of israel,thats they leave him immediately,if they think Jesus is a God they would ask that god-man protection,Jesus is worshipped as king@@superviola88
@@ManlyServantThomas called Jesus his lord and his God.
@@Jrce11 right if you read earlier in John it was the same Thomas who didn't see the father in Christ when Yeshua said if you have seen me you have seen the father. At that moment post resurrection Thomas saw His Lord Yeshua the son of God and his God Yahweh that Yeshua testified was with him, in him, who's word he was speaking, and who's works he was doing. God his father. Its coming full circle and reaching understanding and a place of believing because he is now sees the Lord resurrected
Thanks for posting. Enjoy listening
Jesus said my father and my God
Eph 4-5 one Lord
Eph 4-6 one God
John 3-16
Father and son
God - raised him ( Jesus)
I'm going to the father
@@okhuibutala1640
Jesus is God and He became flesh (John 1,1-14). As He became flesh, the Father became His God (Ps 22,10). Because all flesh is submitted to God (Jer 32,27).
Absolutely this debate is amazing,we love what we have learned and our many questions have been answered thankYou 🙏
Intellectual honesty is important in debates if people desire to advance arguments. Sometimes is not clear if the speaker is even listening or understanding the opposite views to refute them.
WOW! When Dr Tuggy spoke during his introduction it felt cold and calculated but when Dr. Brown spoke, it moved me to tears! To think that God Himself would come down and die for me, and not only that, to take upon Himself the brutal punishment I deserved is a love that is truly divine! Surely, no mere mortal could have walked in thought and in deed without sin and also take upon himself this monumental burden unless he be God! HallelluYAH!
I must caution you to NOT accept a doctrine because it feels better or because it moves you to tears. These are all very subjective things, and they are not a firm foundation upon which true Faith should be founded. God gave us the ability to reason, and we must use it when we worship Him. The truth is that the Holy Scriptures teach us that there is only one true God, Yhwh, and that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are all called Yhwh, the only one true God. The Father sends the Son, and the Father and the Son send the Holy Ghost. The Son entered into His Creation in human flesh at a point in history, He lived a sinless human life, suffered, died, resurrected and ascended, and the Holy Ghost lives in and amongst God's people until Jesus,, the Son in human flesh, returns and He will judge us and restore all things.
Holy Scripture is God speaking to us, and it is sure and trustworthy. Human emotions are not!
@@PrenticeBoy1688 YAHushua is God. I don't decide by feelings, that was just an observation. The witness of scripture is overwhelming concerning the God head of YAH. There is the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error. Tell me please your thoghts concerning the following verse: Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Messiah. (1Co 10:1-4)
@@yosefyahu4778 I think you should re-read my comment, or perhaps read all of it as it appears you didn't do that.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Oh! My apologies! Amen to that!
@@yosefyahu4778 Thank you for your gracious and brotherly apology. You, and as you pointed out, Dr. Brown demonstrate how Christians are to behave; something I too often struggle to do.
It's important to take our opponents seriously and to read all of what they say to us, to hear them out completely. By doing so, we can more fairly and accurately address their error by the standard of the Holy Scriptures. Let the offence of the Gospel be the only cause of offence to the unbeliever.
1:34:32 its verses 11 to 13, Dr. Brown misread his notes or jotted it down wrong, but the prayer starts in verse 11.
The problem with Tuggy's argument is that he likes to argue from a philosophical view. Dr. Brown argued strictly from a Biblical perspective. You will not win a theological debate with philosophy- Colossians: 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."
difference is,brown is commiting something called gish gallop,meanwhile tuggy is quoting all the verses essentially needed for this topic @@prayingpatriot8018
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Yeshua already sitting at the right hand of GOD, says, "MY GOD" - as 4 times in Revelation 3: 12.
Rev 3: 12
The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the Name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD God the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from MY GOD, and My new Name.
If you send the same comment 3 times you are not sure
correct , the Father is the God of the flesh and blood he himself created and wants you to understand this , give glory to the substance , not the form , the spirit , not the flesh , the being , not his manifestation , the creator , not his creation ...however , the form is directly made from Gods very word and has the fulness of the Godhead within him , the only thing Jesus ever claimed to be in him is the Father , God himself , who is holy , who is a spirit , he is then of course a holy spirit and as philippians says in THE FORM of God , the form of something is not the substance of it .......................though its Gods form and not something on its own , which is why Jesus can be worshipped and has all the same titles the Father has etc. Jesus made it plain "i come in my Fathers name" . I don't know what the issue is here? MY GOD , yes , the flesh and blood is not God ... and? thats all Gods showing you by example , Jesus did everything for us by example , God humbled himself , you can fight every scripture you want , Jesus was very clear , if ye believe not I AM HE , ye shall die in your sins , i would advise you to learn what scripture hes quoting and who the IAM and HE that Jesus refers to is , because if you dont believe Jesus to be that being , which isaiah 9:6 knows he is , you're dying in your sins , because anything else is idolatry or denial of Jesus , who is the I AM HE? ...........................................it's the Father , this is why Jesus said before abraham was i AM , because Jesus is the word of God made flesh , Gods word was before abraham , and the bible says the word IS God , God manifest in the flesh timothy says ... better start studying the bible and stop listening to these wolves , they are leading you all to hell like Jesus said they would , and if this doctrines wrong , i bet you a lot of their other doctrine is wrong , stay away from these youtubers and churches , time to study the word for real and find out the truth , your souls on the line .
@onlymyself7225 I'm having alot of trouble reconciling between these two doctrines, please pray for me. I thought the "I AM" statement from Jesus was the end all be all. However, the "I AM" from exodus in the Greek septuagint is different from the "I AM" Jesus uses in John. Exodus is "ho Theos" (I believe) and in John it is "ego eimi".
@@aka.yehoshua ho theos is the greek translation for “the God” literally translated ho-the theos-god. in exodus God says to moses I am That I am, which does not mention the word ho or theos.
Jesus said "I AM the Almighty". He also said that he was on earth and in heaven at the same time.
Revelation 1:8
King James Version
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John 3:13
King James Version
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Interesting, Informative, and Intriguing--and above all Inspiring & useful!!! :)
Who else agrees we really need the two wittiness to come clear some stuff up especially this
The two witnesses are not who we thought they were.
Must watch about the Two witnesses and revelation.
Check this out: czcams.com/video/qRJ-ncor52A/video.html
Some people think the "2 witnesses" are the Israelites/Jews and Christians/Gentiles!
Jesus already came..the "faithful and true witness" and he showed us all who his God and Father is. All these deceiving lying hypocrites like Michael Brown and James White trying to say the trinity is the truth do not know the Father and they can not hear the words of Jesus
@Abraham Mani Thanks for sharing! Was Jesus saying he was the Temple?
@Abraham Mani how many times do you have to post this same thing on comments??
Normally, posting your comment once is the accepted mode. Please don't flood the thread like this again.
I usually dont comment on stuff like this but I watch them all the time. No offense to Dr.Tuggy but to say that John 1:1-2 and then 14 is NOT talking about Jesus is a HUGE stretch! I was shocked by that one!
I think when we take into account Deut 18:18-19, God makes a clear distinction between His word and Jesus, them not being the same thing. The word is God. God puts His word into the prophet (Jesus) to speak on His behalf.
Always a pleasure to hear Mr. Tuggy. Quick note, Jude talk about Jesus freeing his people in Egypt. Also, Jesus himself also talks about knowing Abraham in the gospels.
Really? Where in Scriptures did Jesus and Abraham meet? Did they talk with one another? Abraham had a revelation from God the Father of the coming Messiah. Is that so hard to comprehend. God sees things that are as though they have already happened. When scriptures speak of David"s and Abraham's seed , who do you suppose it is making reference? The Messiah Jesus.
@@priscillajervey8345 you’re joking right?
You think?? Ha!@@azazel5673 You think maybe Abraham and Jesus were buddies? Ha!
”And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, and said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:“
Genesis 18:1-3 KJV
Although the other 2 are later identified as angels in Genesis 19:1, some say the 3 are the Triune God coming down to earth to speak with Abraham.
”Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.“
John 8:58 KJV
Thank You So much👌
@Abraham Mani amen
Dr Brown what a privilege to hear a jew acknowledging the messiah
Thank you Dr Brown for quoting the teaching of Jesus our Lord, God, King of Kings ❤, The way, the truth, life and the resurrector
Amen
I found this debate to be very informative. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my messiah and I love him so much. He is my way to God and to his Kingdom. I think The Unitarian approach is aligned with the Torah and the Ten Commandments. I am humbled and confused and looking forward to eternal learning and education about God. I do feel confident that God is one. Maybe God’s word became flesh and that is also aligned with genesis chapter one. God says and it is created. Thank you so much for a very good meaningful debate. ❤❤❤😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
The answer to the question @ 2:32:30 - Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME. (Heb 10:5) Also Messiah says: "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18) Question: How did Yahushuah raise His own body while being dead?
Not just that he said also Jesus said somewhere in John that destroy this temple and in 3 days I will build it up again
Keep searching for the answer, see the passage of the temple in context based on what the evangelist believed also.
God raised Jesus from the dead by his Spirit.
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
@@iamdenisehiers6719 Test Paul as a true apostle.
@@brenosantana1458 Paul is not a true Apostle?
All I need to know is that Jesus Christ is LORD !! period
Knowledge is nothing to be afraid of.
@Saint Belligerant jude tells us the Jesus led Moses out of Egypt, in Exodus we read The LORD led Moses and his people out of Egypt.
@@mitchelladkins3502 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 shows Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt.
Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
@One God One Christ 1stCorinthians chapter 10 verse 4 Christ follows/doesn't lead Israel out of Egypt.
Exodus chapter 13 verse 21 'the LORD went before them in a pillar of a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night'.
One God one Christ
You call the WORD of GOD corupted, why? Because it doesn't fit your cult's fubar doctrine? So let us write our own bible, with our doctrins?
Who is on the throne in Isaiah 6:1?
Gen. 15:1, 4 in the Hebrew reads WORD YHWH came unto Abraham in a vision, WORD YHWH says.to him.
Genesis has all three individuals echad "unified" YHWH, WORD YHWH and MESSENGER YHWH.
Who is Melchizedek in Gen 14:18, Isa 9:6 and Heb. 7:1?
When Jesus was dead, did he not preach to those in the underworld?
What did the Jews expect the Messiah to be? I know they still expect Him, but do they see Him as devine? Do they attribute all the Godly characteristics as mentioned in the OT to Him?
Bowing down as a sign of respect in the Bible, was not only to God, but to men too, like to Boaz, David, Samuel, Joseph, Esau, king Saul and more...
Only difference is that Jesus was worshipped, these characters however weren't
The apostles would tell men to stand up when they bowed to them because they were only men.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (UKJV) Moreover, brethren, I would not that all of you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
And did all eat the same spiritual food;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
You cannot say that Messiah did not pre-exist when the scriptures CLEARLY states the opposite!
Does the doctrine of the Trinity really propose that there are three that are the one God, or does it propose that the one God exists in a three-fold manner. I see a difference.
Both and also he is considered to be both God and man at the same time...a Decision made at the council of Chalcedon 451 AD. The God- man theory. You should see a difference and a very silly, absurd one at that. No one can truly explain the Trinity or even truly comprehend it, that is why it is considered a mystery even within it own camp and most ardent defenders. The argument had NEVER been layed to rest even after 2,000 yrs. Wonder Why???
Well then, who is sitting at the right hand of God, and where is the throne for the third "person" of the Holy Spirit? Just saying.
Start of presentation/debate 4:00 you're welcome
Wanna smell my fart??
You wanted likes. And only got 1.
Why? Because we can fast forward to it ourselves. But thanks anyway.
@@DjSostre7nah lots of comments like these always get lots of likes just not here that doesn’t mean they all don’t hush
Philippians 2: 5-7 (NKJV), "...Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."
@Paul Mata Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God.
Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9.
Here, you dropped this:
Philippians 2:9 (NASB) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
God, as in Yahweh, highly exalted Jesus.
Trinitarians always skip this verse! This is why Dr Tuggy said context is king!
God is the God of all flesh Jeremiah 32. So yes the son will always call the father God from the moment he entered in the flesh. But the father also calls the son God. Hebrews 1.
Easy peezy
@@lizzard13666 Jesus took a form of a servant..
@@arold4928 Yes! When he could have been King and taken power immediately, as per his temptation in the wilderness. Instead Jesus took the form of a servant.
What's the confusion here? If God said he made man in his image; but when he comes in the image to reveal himself, now is a problem? 🕵🕵
The authors of the first books in the Bible imagined that God looked like a mighty man
Anthropomorphic
They could imagine nothing more
Later NT writers show God lIving in unapproachable light!
@Mark Metternich Gof did not say that God made man in his image
Early scripture writers assumed that God looked like a mighty King
Neigh even greater
That’s all they could imagine!
@Mark Metternich the problem is if it was HIS IMAGE why would it actually be him and not HIS IMAGE?
Numbers 23 19 YHWH tells us He is not a man or son of man.
He is invisible, He's a Spirit, He dwells in unapproachable light. No man has seen him. Reread Exodus, the people were terrified to even be in the presence of His glory!
Day 6, possibly speaking to/and about Adam and Eve. Since they are the only image we know that looks like us.
Creation account pattern, God states what He is going to do first and then how He does it after. Very easily could be talking to/about His creation Adam. It's the only time God speaks in plural form, even day 7, He rested, singular.
@jawnatutorow
Numbers 23:19 Never said God is not a man. You should always read the scripture the right way. God is making a statement here, Never take a phrase and leave the rest out.
Numbers 23:19 says,
God is not a man that he should lie;
Neither the son of man, that he should repent. Hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall not make it good?
Isaiah
For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government shall be up on his shoulders and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, the mighty God the everlasting father, the prince of peace. Amen
Now tell me who Jesus is again.
Do I need to accept the BU understanding of God and His Annointed One Jesus who is not God and was created by God for the purpose of redemption? Will I forfeit my salvation? I cannot find an answer from a BU on this question and it is the most important question to ask. What must I do to be saved?
Have you read the New Testament yet?
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod I have and we are saved by faith through grace in Jesus Christ. Period. Nothing to add. Not. One. Single. Work. God the Son, The Word, Jesus Christ that we see in the Bible made it abundantly clear there is no access to the Father without the Son. Did they not ask Jesus what are the works of God? And His answer could not have been more clear or more loving - Believe in the one whom He has sent.
The Jesus of BU is a created being, not God, so as a BU you really only want access to the father, the son is just a means. Yes he was the promised Messiah, yes he died for the sins of the world. But he has no power in himself. You do not worship the created. Worship belongs only to the father.
So I ask the question will the Jesus of BU still save me if I viewed him and worshiped him as God my entire life even though he is not? Or will he condemn me for not worshiping only God the Father?
@@AGSunday I can't answer for him, but I've been wondering the same too. In most churches I've been too, people pray to Jesus. Very common practice. Yet, Jesus himself taught us to pray to the Father (when you pray... our Father who is in heaven) and he also said to not ask him. but to ask the Father in his name (Joh 16:23-24). Yet the majority of christains ignore the things Jesus taught and they pray to him. Some even go a step further, they pray to the Holy Spirit. Yet, there is not even one scripture that encourages that. Why does Jesus not tell his disciples to pray to him once he's gone to be with the Father ? If he is God then that would be totally legit. Yet he tells them not to do it, but to pray to the Father. Could the same thing count for worship as well? Jesus always seem to encourage worship to the Father, not to himself or the Spirit.
Lately, if you pay attention in church (I'm going to a church where the trinity is believed), you will see christians do a lot of things that the bible tells them not to do. We come each Sunday to a church to listen to a pastor. The bible teaches something different.... that we should all participate and be part of the gathering, actively. We come to church to have worship or a worship service with a worship leader and sing a lot of songs. You don't see them doing that in the bible, it doesn't even mention worship leaders in the new testament at all. Yes, they sang, but they didn't have a worship and a serman part. Pastor's lead the church... yet in the new testament they don't do that at all. We put a lot of emphasis on the pastor, in the bible he doesn't have that emphasis at all. Go to a charismatic gathering and you will see them speak in tongues together or sing in tongues together. Yet the bible says something else. We do a lot of things contrary to the bible and scores of people are okay with it.
Perhaps worshipping Jesus falls under that same category... we're doing something that we're not supposed to do at all. We sing tons of songs about Jesus and to Jesus, but did he ever ask us to do that? We pray to him, but did he ask us to do so? Did he not always point to his Father?
@@AGSunday I'm guessing by BU you are talking about BYU? Even if I'm wrong, the things you are saying sound in alignment with Mormon teachings or at least close enough that my response will remain the same. You don't need to understand the BU understanding of anything. You need to accept the Biblical teaching. I'm talking about Bibles that come from the Textus Receptus or the NA manuscript families (KJV, ESV, NIV, NASB, etc.). Jesus is not a created being - He is the Son of God but He is also God the Son. You said, "Will the Jesus of BU still save me if I..." and the answer is, "No. The Jesus of BU is not going to save you or anyone else because that Jesus doesn't exist." The only Jesus that can save anyone is the Jesus of the Bible who is the second person of the trinity. I would point you to the book of 1 John and the following passages: 2:23, 4:2-3, 4:6, 4:13, 4:15, 5:1-2, and 5:10-12. I would also point out the crucial verse of Galatians 1:8 - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." So every time you have a religion started when an "angel" comes and gives some prophet (Joseph Smith, Mohammad, etc.) a revelation about how the Bible is not quite correct (aka they are preaching another gospel) that angel (actually a fallen angel) is CURSED - anathema - to the lake of fire. Satan loves it when people believe in the wrong Jesus because then they will join him in hell. But it's much easier for Satan to deceive people with a false Jesus than by trying to convince them to worship Satan. This is why Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses all have a false Jesus.
*Romans 10,8-13*
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:
*9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.*
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile- *the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,*
*13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”*
*Joel 2,32*
*And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved;* for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.
*Acts 10,36*
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, *who is Lord of all.*
*Acts 4,11-12*
11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
12 Salvation is found in no one else, *for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”*
*1. Kor. 1,1-2*
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere *who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ-their Lord and ours:*
El Gibborim is used in Eze 32:21 for a group of men. Every one of them is an El Gibbor. It is factually inaccurate for Dr Brown to assert El Gibbor as an exclusive title for Yahweh.
That is lie as it states "ḡib·bō·w·rîm ’ê·lê," while Isaiah 9:6 states "gib·bō·wr ’êl"
@@JuanLopez-rl7ry Ele/Eli is spelled the same way as Eli in Psalm22:1 in Hebrew. The root word is El. Just look at Biblehub H410. So it is not false just same word, but can be used as singular, plural or adjective.
May God the Father blessing, love and truth be with you, in Lord Jesus Christ Name, Amen!❤️
@@yeahwheey1Yeah your right only difference is one is singular and one is plural it's still the same basic word, like in english we have hat and hats, slightly different spelling still same basic word in meaning.
El gibbon is a ‘red herring ‘
The event being referred to in Isaiah 9 was the birth of a Davidic King and the words the Heavenly Council would use to greet his birth!
Some Christians have readdressed these words to Christ!
Incorrectly!
But they keep doing it!
@@johnbrien6313 LOL! David was buried for 275 years when Isaiah prophesy 9:6. After Solomon the kingdom was devided. A Davidic king would ruled all Isreal not just Judah. 60 years later you're in captivity and ruled by 4 beast empires then Jerusalem was made desolate for 1878 years. Dan. 9:24-27 happened with the last week still to play out. Your Temple stones still remain thrown down crying out "a plase for trumpeting" if I recall correctly.
JESUS is the only canidate being from the line of Jesse>David>Nathan on the seed of the woman side and the laws of inheritance on Joseph's line Jesse>David>Solomon. GOD is not a nan such as HE would lie. It all went down to the day and hour. HIS will be done.
Some Christians still do? Isa. 9:1-6 is quoted as being fulfilled in Mat. 4:11-16. I'm happy your not associating yourself with Christianity, we'll consider you a mission field.
The Father is God - But Jesus Christ is His Son and our Lord - you cannot get to God unless you go through Jesus.........
the son of god created all things that was made.
@@joshjeggs 'In the beginning God/Elohim(Gods) created the heavens and the earth': God (Jehovah Jehovah Isaiah chapter 26 verse 4) Isaiah 45:11-22; Jesus/Word John chapter 1 verse 3, Hebrews chapter 1 verse 10: two men according to (Scripture) the law each has their own material body which is a soul and has a rhuach spirit within him John chapter 8 verses 17-18: Jesus, who had been the Word wearing a God-body Philippians chapter 2nd verse 6, created with his hands; God created Isaiah chapter 45 verses 11-12 with his hands John chapter 8 verses 17-18 one of the two witnesses about Jesus.
@@leonardhunt5677 WRONG
the word is the actual words of God ... not JEsus..
@King J-dub what do feeling have to do with this? No where in the old testament does it speak of a trinity or jesus being the son of God... the first 3 commandments say I am the LORD thy God.
No other gods before me.
No graven images or likenesses.
@@bournrich3353 The writer of Hebrews 1 is speaking of the Son who was.
All things that were made according to the Fathers will and at His command He made through Jesus.
As in all things its from the Father and through the Son.
But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”
This may help those wondering about the death of Messiah: Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body you have prepared for me; (Heb 10:5)
Dr Tuggy said many times about some versus; the "scholars says".
To me that sounds like the Roman Catholicism, they also says that whatever their "scholars said" .
Dr. Brown, if falling to our knees to worship the son will please the father, like you say, I'm terribly confused by this if they are not separate people.
What a waste of mr. tuggy “preparation”. Read Genesis 18, YHVH intertwines with a human...
@@josegordon6302 YHVH can appear as who ever he wants and to whom ever he wants. This does not mean that he is Jesus.
You're confused. People are human beings, God is divine being. ✨
@@shelley9583 says who?
Utter nonsense
@Night Owl God is divine but his words says that he will incarnate in to man. What happened with Isaiah 9:6?
Why is it that anyone who isn't a Trinitarian is automatically labelled as a "deceiver" and "doesn't have the spirit of Jesus" in them and "lacks the holy ghost". Can't we just be intellectual?
We can’t just have intellectual acknowledgement on this matter because we are to “know God”, “grow in the knowledge of Christ”, have our minds renewed, our hearts changed via the Holy Spirit from hearts of stone to fleshy hearts having God’s Law written on them. James 2:19 explicitly tells us that even the demons KNOW God and shudder. What does that mean? Well that means having just bare facts and a knowledge of God and who He is is completely different than TRULY KNOWING, TRUSTING, having saving faith in God. So that when or once we are completely regenerated we should bear fruit that reflects who we are now on the inside from this true knowledge of God. Doctrine by itself is no proof of saving faith. They(demons, Antichrists) know the truth about God, who Christ is, and who the Spirit is, but they hate it. Thus zero fruit is produced by these sorts in fact it’s the absence of these things that show one’s standing with God.
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the son, lest he be angry and you perish. We need to quickly realise Jesus is God
@T41EF Because the Bible teaches that Jesus Is God with the Father and the Holy Ghost and God is one.
@@Solomonsaysno this is a lengthy reply but with little weight to it. This is what I mean by intellectual. When we just shout a verse and have our own opinion on its meaning, we lose track instantly. What I dislike most is the dismissal of unitarians as people who lack some sort of spirit. If one is to accept a spirit or Jesus as Lord and then claim they believe now before they did that as a prerequisite then we find ourselves in a self defeating argument. Heck I can guarantee many Christians are reading this and assuimg I'm passed by Satan to say this or lack some holy ghost. We need to discuss and be intellectual.
@@MrChemenger But that verse doesn't say he is god. It doesn't even insinuate it. We need to be careful of our own interpretations
Do you have a oneness vs unitarian debate?
DR. Tuggy, Are you denying the deity of Christ? What about after Jesus was Baptised 1. " the Voice from Heaven said this my beloves Son and in Him, I am well Pleased"?
2. What about John 1:1 that says "In the beginning, there was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Ord was God.? 3. John 14:6 " I am The Way, The Truth, and the life, No one can come to the Father but by Me?
To deny him is plainly what the NT calls Anti-Christ.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Numbers 23 -19: God is not a man, God is not a human being; his decisions will not change.
Hosea 11. I am God and not a human.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 God created everything by himself and he has the power to do anything...so you telling me that God cannot live among men as a man?
@@hdk8727 Man is made in God's image. The relationship between a father and son on earth can be used as an image to infer back to the relationship between Jesus and his father.
In the End- BOTH hold Great and Equal Points.. Arguing "Faith" ( which is a gift) will always End Confusing. .
No matter what we will hear what we WANT TO HEAR and call whatever we Hear As "RIGHT"
Ramelep
There is only one truth. Speak for yourself as confused not the rest of us.
Rick Huntling guess what you are 100% right.. there is only ONE TRUTH.. “depending” on where you go..
I’m not confused.. I’m well traveled and knowledgeable and understanding.
Thank you
You show it well. Glad your so well traveled and knowledgeable and professing yourself to be so wise. Peace. Excuse me if I seem confused and not as confident as you two boys. Be safe . I' ve started Rom.1. Just finishing verses 18-28. I read for understanding.
Rick Huntling haha 😂
All I’m saying is People see things differently Across the board.
What you know as 100% Truth someone else’s sees differently..
I agree with the Christian ✝️ btw... I’m just removing my “faith” hat 🧢 and seeing from more angles..
Shared with love
Love these two speakers so much!
No hate to my trinitarian friends, I use to be a trinitarian all my life. There’s a lot of research to do so if you all are up for dabbling in Greek, go for it!
It’s wonderful to know that when the Bible says our God is one, we can believe it.
All love I dont want to argue but what about John 8:58, revelation 2:23 Jesus literally says basically the same thing that God says in Jeremiah 17:10. John 16:25-31. If you see John 16;25-31 Jesus says he came from God and "again" is going back to God or with God and that relates to John 1:1.
From genesis to revelations the Trinity exists, God, Elohim, plural, let “us” make man in “our” image. Let us (plural) confuse there language gen 11:7 and the lord (single) confused there language gen 11:9.
Genesis 18:1-2
Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth,
“Now the Lord appeared to him” and “When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him” the Bible is lettered with the Trinity tell me if you want more verse I figured I’d just give you a few from genesis
@Mick Erikson so do I our lord our God is one
@Mick Erikson you just don’t understand the Trinity and you think I believe in three Gods, that’s wrong I bro lie with in one God just the way the Bible explains the Trinity. I gave you verses so exegete those verses don’t give me other verses if you can prove my verses wrong
@Mick Erikson like I said you can’t prove that biblically you have just been taught some heretical teaching, and you will die in your sins because of it.
Exodus 3:14 God says I am who I am
Jesus says in
John 8:58 before Abraham was “I am”
And in 8:24 he says if you do not believe I am he you will die in your sins.
Prove to me that he is not God using the Bible, don’t just yap
why i see always the debaters that defend CHRIST, full of the SPIRIT speaking so fluid to the point that the debate even looks unfair...is like an adult debating a little child....
Because before accepting trinity, one must throw rationality out of the window and accept emotional feelings. I agree with you. I see that too. They are too emotional rather than talking in a scholarly way. But it's not their fault. Actually they can't rationally about trinity which is itself irrational concept. Even people gets hyped when they are drunk or on drugs. Christian debaters are like them.
The meek shall inherit the earth
When you pray, say: OUR FATHER, which art in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name...
The same Jesus who said pray to the father also said we should ask anything in his name, John 14:13-14
@(( Christian Man )) Mr " Christian man" this is something for you to think about, you will die in your sins unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins, in the literal Greek it's I Am not I Am he, I wonder whether that I Am has ever echoed something to you
@@sethlubega3153 If you don't believe that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God you will die in your sins. If you believe that he is Christ, the Son of God you will have life through his name. See John 20:31
God made Jesus Lord and Christ
See Acts 2:36
@@iamdenisehiers6719 you mean the same acts that tells you God purchased the church with his own blood acts 20:28, the I AM the Lord Jesus uses in John 8:24 is the I AM God uses to describe himself in Deuteronomy 32: 39 it's I Am without nothing added to , the I AM where the Divine name YAHWEH is derived, mind you in John 1:1 they have already told you the word is God, yes the Lord Jesus is God one with the Father and holy Spirit
@@sethlubega3153 God was in Christ
......but the Father that dwelleth in me ,he doeth the works. See John 14:10
Also, Matthew 12:28
" But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you."
Also Acts 2:22,
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth a man approved by God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you......"
God was in Christ. Amen.
This "debate" complete aside, there is one thing in those discussions never addressed, and that is that the bible differs from all pagan religions in the point of having one God, not more than the one God. Trinitarianism, polytheism, is of pagan roots and the bible proofs that over and over and that is never discussed.
Context is key 🗝️
exactly. and Dr. Brown very rarely gives context. skipping from verse to verse to verse means nothing. and then when Tuggy tries to nail him down on the 1 Thess. 3:11-13 he chuffs and says oh well you don't understand the Greek. huh?
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One! Deut 6:4
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5
Jesus said to her, "...'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'" John 20:17
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort. 2 Cor 1:3
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. Acts 3:13
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor 11:3
Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" Luke 9:35
I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Chosen One of God. John 1:34
Because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." Eph 1:4
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. Rom 10:9
Numbers 23:19 )God is Not a man nor is he a human so he does not change his mind!!.
That's why christ never lied and never changed his mind. For he did what he came for. Amen brother!!!
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God.
Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”-Matthew 6:9
@@Azarable yeah he is the unique son of God. Because jesus never said I am God doesn't mean he isn't God. If I say I'm God doesn't make me a God just because I said it. And is it the only way to know if someone is God or not just by claiming his God? I mean who can have the attributes of God except God himself. Like jesus is the beginning and the end the alpha and omega the first and the last. He is the resurrection. He is the king of king and lord of lord. He is the good shepherd. He is the father of eternity. He is THY truth. He is Thy life. He created all things, he accepted worship, He existed before the world was. This are the attributes of God so who can have those attributes except God himself? So if jesus have those attributes what is he saying to us? Its obvious.
Yeah jesus prayed, jesus called the father his God, jesus got hungry, jesus got tired, jesus wasnt all knowing, jesus had all this human nature. Why because he was truly man and truly God the incarnation called the hypostatic union. This all thing u see is based on his human nature. Why did jesus prayed because he became a man. when he became a man why should he stop talking to the father? Prayer is a way of communicating with God. Why did jesus call the father his God because he bacame a man. When he became a man he's not gonna be a hard athiest is he? Why should he stop his relationship with the father? Why should he stop talking to the father? In Jeremiah it clearly states that God is the God of all flesh. So when the son became a man he worships the father in the flesh.
@@yonasfesseha4900 You said it yourself that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never said he was God (Yahweh). You see?? You just admitted it.
@@yonasfesseha4900 Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father
Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is. We will also worship Jehovah as “the only true God.”
Jesus (Yeshua) Christ said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?
For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ never claimed to be equal to God (Yahweh). Instead, Jesus worshipped God (Yahweh). (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus (Yeshua) called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ-God’s preeminent Son-they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
The problem is in the translation, by writing LORD...and Lord...instead of the many Names of God and Lord (master as a king)...
LORD his substance , Lord his form , theres only one LORD , whats the issue? now Gods word is wrong but you're correct? you know how to deliver Gods word better than he does?
Exodus 3:14 - And God said to Moses, “I am Who I am” and He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:40 - Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."
Seems to me Jesus is calling Himself God. If you have any questions, concerns, or doubts, I suggest you take it up with Him.
Who does the Bible say the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is? This is the one who was speaking to Moses at the burning bush. Was it the Father or was it someone else? In the Exodus account the one speaking repeatedly says He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In Acts3:11-26 we are told who this God is? It isn’t Jesus, for Jesus is identified as the Servant of this God, the prophet this God told Moses he would send after him and the seed of Abraham through whom all the world would be blessed. This God, the only one ever identified as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by the Jews, the God the Jews claim as their one Father, John 8, specifically verse 41. Notice they claim they have one Father, the same Father Jesus claims he has whom he calls his God. I find it interesting that Trinitarians use the accusations made by the Pharisees to claim Jesus is God when Jesus mocks them for every claim they make. Every time the Pharisees came around they were accusing him and testing him so they could claim he was blaspheming and kill him. Jesus always beat their tests and would test them like when when they asked him by what authority he is doing these things. Jesus responded by telling them he would answer their question if they could say if the message of John the Baptist was from man or from Heaven. They could not answer either way out of fear. Finally, for what reason was Jesus actually crucified? At his unfair trial, they had many coming and making false accusations so they could put him to death, but they miserably failed. Then the high priest asked, abjuring Jesus by the living God (their only Father) to say he was the Christ. Jesus answered yes and the high priest accused him of blasphemy. Why? Did Jesus claim he was God? No! In fact he said they would see the son of man sitting next to God.
“But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.””
Matthew 26:63-64 NASB1995
bible.com/bible/100/mat.26.64.NASB1995
Then they lied about Jesus to Pilate in Luke, saying he was teaching to not pay taxes and misleading the Jews.
“Then the whole body of them got up and brought Him before Pilate. And they began to accuse Him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, and saying that He Himself is Christ, a King.” So Pilate asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?” And He answered him and said, “It is as you say.” Then Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds, “I find no guilt in this man.” But they kept on insisting, saying, “He stirs up the people, teaching all over Judea, starting from Galilee even as far as this place.””
Luke 23:1-5 NASB1995
bible.com/bible/100/luk.23.1-5.NASB1995
Even Pilate knew the religious leaders had nothing to charge him with. It says in Mark 16 that Pilate knew they had turned him over to him out of envy. When Pilate asked them what evil had he done, they didn’t answer but all they did was continue to shout “crucify him”.
Even Judas realized Jesus was innocent of any crimes after he had betrayed him.
As for Jesus saying he and the Father are one, he also prayed to the Father so that we could be in him, and he and the Father in us so that we also could be one as he and the Father is one. See John 17.
Please read and learn who the Pharisees are and stop following there example of making false accusations about what Jesus is saying.
I believe there are three in God the Father’s plan for our salvation. There is the only true God, the Father who is the only eternal, invisible, and immortal one. We have his begotten son who was taught everything from the Father, his God, does only what he sees God do, only has the authority given to him by his God, and died, being a man for the forgiveness of sins. The spirit of God who also does nothing on his own but only spoke and reminded the apostles of what Jesus spoke of which were the words that God the Father gave him to speak.
Jesus is my lord and master, not because he is God,but because he is the promised one of God from the beginning, the one who God said would be the seed of the woman and crush satan’s head. I give praise and honor to him, for the same reason His God highly exalted him. It is because he loved righteousness and hated wickedness and “gave himself as a sacrifice for all mankind”. I am lead by the spirit of God so that I may walk in the same way Jesus walked, for Jesus did not walk perfectly on his own, he was only able to offer himself without blemish through the spirit whom he was anointed with at his baptism, just as we also receive the spirit when we are baptized.
This is God’s plan of salvation for all men who believe His testimony about his son, that Jesus is the promised one the messiah. We, non-Jews, and Jews are heirs with Jesus because of the promise made to Abraham, that “in his seed”, all the world will be blessed.
How about start focusing on God’s will for you and less on a creed set forth by men. Believe Jesus, the one you call your savior, when he claims before his death, after his death, and after his ascension to heaven, that the one true God, his Father and ours, is both his God and our God.
Please also note in Acts 2, who, and what died on the cross for our sins. At the beginning of the church, the very first teaching was that the MAN, Jesus, attested to us by God, died on the cross, was raised from the dead, and seated at the right hand of his God who made Jesus both lord and Christ. This man is the descendant of David who God promised would sit on his throne. It is this man that is now sitting at the right hand of God and is the mediator between God and man.
Jesus is a man only, he is not our God, but he is our savior because he is the promise of God.
Ask yourself, if Paul believed Jesus was God, why did he repeatedly say, “Blessed be the God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ”? Is Paul delusional? If Jesus and the Father are both God, then Paul believes that God is the God of himself. Seriously! This is what trinitarians want us to believe.
Notice the names also given to the three in scripture. We have God the Father, the son of God, and the spirit of God. The later two are of the first, the first is of nothing, for He is God, the only God. There is no grammatical construct that can change this fact.
Finally, if Jesus was the one in the form of man speaking to his people in the Old Testament, why would he have to come and be born as a man? Why would he not just appear as he did then, since according to trinitarians those to whom he spoke to knew he was God. This also is confusing when in Philippians it says, he was made in the form of man and humbled himself to the point of death, when he had already been in the form of man in the Old Testament as trinitarians wish to claim.
@ 51:11 Dr. Tuggy, the text plainly says that the Word became Flesh! The word also clearly says that Christ created all things! Does no one see the issue here in Dr. Tuggy refuting the plain reading and meaning of the text?
May be this is what u mean by plain reading: God the Son became flesh
Dr. Brown or anyone who believes in the trinity......please help me and answer the following question. When we get to heaven will we see three persons...will we see both God, the son and the Holy spirit or just one being on one thrown? Thank you.
@Tyler B #2 So there is a God race? When you're in the room, there will be god the father in one corner, god the son in another and god the holy spirit in a third. And we're mean to think Trinitarians are monotheistic. Yeah, right.
@@richardmorgan3938 The new testament does say that Jesus will seat at the right hand of the father after he rises on the third day.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 Correct. I am not sure what your point is though.
@@richardmorgan3938 My point is that Jesus and the father and the holyspirit are one because they are of the same being. I guess i thought you meant that they are seperate but equal.
@@shio_sakaki_the_legend392 What do you mean "they are of the same being"? I don't find that teaching anywhere in scripture. No, I think they are separate and unequal:
There is one God, the Father. He is eternal.
Jesus is the Son of God, and didn't exist until he was born, although he was part of God's plan from the beginning. He is not eternal, but has immortality now. He is still termed a man (1 Tim. 2:5) in his role as mediator.
The Holy Spirit is the power of God.
It's very simple.
potreste mandarlo con traduzione in italiano
Subtitles please !! Porfavorrrr
what sub?
Yes , they are available
Michael Brown at 1:07:40 "I came jealous for a full revelation of the love of God, who demonstrates His great heart for us not by sending a glorified man to die for us, but by giving of His very self, His own Son, His own unique Son, coming into this world."
This sentence makes no sense to me. Brown says the Son of God is God's very self (and not in the sense of someone's child metaphorically being their "heart"). Brown is saying God's Son is God Himself. Why on earth would God use the phrase "Son" rather than simply "Myself"? It makes God seem like He's playing with words to confuse us. Also, the way Brown speaks makes it seem like God sending Himself is a great thing, but God sending the man Jesus (who IS God's Son) is some kind of lesser act to be looked down upon.
Overall great debate.
You need the Holy Spirit to make understand the scriptures brother. Dr Brown is full of the Holy Spirit and the other dude is not, He is just religious not spiritual.
@@ndjibukabengele973 Nah. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the Holy Spirit should contradict reason/logic/language.
God says son because God is not the flesh itself , he is the spirit manifest IN the flesh , as scripture says , God wants you to understand the difference between his form and his substance ... God is not a human being , God manifest in a human he created by making his word flesh , something we cant do , sure , but all in scripture . The Father , created the form , the form is a man , whats the most fitting title.... son , is it not? God is not the form , the man , he is the substance within it , who , created it , its all Gods , which is why it can be equal to God , known as God , its his visible image and express image of his person , his word , his name , i might have God in me now but im not all those things , there is a difference made between us as a man and Jesus as a man and of course the form and the substance .
philippians 2 will help you understand this more , and so God humbled himself it says and took on THE FORM of a servant , Jesus made claims only God can make plenty of times , he revealed himself plainly , before abraham was i am , destroy this temple in three days i will raise it up , im alpha and omega , if ye believe not i am he ye shall die in your sins , all of this says who he is , the jews were not confused by his claims , they simply didnt believe him , they said they wanna kill him because "being a man thou makest thyself God" ...clearly they knew Jesus was telling them hes the Father , and when philip was confused , he made it plain , you see me , you seen the father , i and my father are one , from henceforth ye know him and have seen him .
people can find fancy ways to explain all this , its plain and simple speech .
@@onlymyself7225 amen brother. helped me understand it more than most youtube preachers who desperately try to differentiate the father and son. meanwhile i always viewed it simply as u stated, the perfect manifestation of the lord god in the flesh. His word and essence made flesh. god did not leave heaven to dwell among us, his word was made into flesh and dwelt among us. His very own son whom he loves because in essence it is him, eternally coexistant with him, everything made through his word and spirit. that’s why jesus will send the spirit from the father as the mediator between man and god; the god man. He will send the spirit from the father. He will raise himself up. and he commands his spirit into his fathers hands. beautiful
Dr. Brown, thanks for making it clearer using Scripture verses like John 1:1,14
Col. 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form", Jesus as God and not just a glorified person.
Why woud Jesus even desire to grasp equality with God, since according to you he is God? John 1: 1 is the MOST misunderstood verse in scriptures and so misleading. I doubt that without Jn 1 :1 there would even be such a doctrine of the Trinity.
I think the word “Trinity” is insufficient to describe the nature of God. Having said that, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus Christ IS God. The evidence is exhaustive. One cannot deny the deity of Jesus Christ without ignoring, denying, or twisting scripture
Correct. God doesn't share His glory, even with His children as shown to us.
@@priscillajervey8345it would be convenient for you to not have John 1:1, wouldn't it? Fortunately for all of us, God said it so it's real. Just as Jesus saying "I Am" and calling Himself "THE ALPHA AND OMEGA" in Revelation. There's nothing else that can be said after that clear statement.
Well....if you say so!@@AndrewGiles688
If they’re the same, then why does Jesus pray that we are all one like Him and the Father are, in John 17
Dr. Tuggy is right about there being two different types of Trinitarians. Some think of God as being 3 literal Persons which sounds like Tri-Theism while Dr. Brown tends to focus more on the Oneness of God's Being as an Individual Being by saying, "I," "Me," "He", and so forth. I believe that many professing Trinitarians just give the Trinity idea "lip service' by throwing out the words "3 persons" and "the triune God" and so forth while thinking a lot like us Oneness Pentecostals.
Global Impact Ministries
You don't even know what tri-theism is. ha!
Tri-theism by definition means three gods, not 3 persons. Modalism is the belief in one God, one person, three different modes or manifestations.
@@rustyshadow7 Does each alleged divine person have his own distinct mind, will, and personal self consciousness?
Agreed. Trinitarianism is unlivable. Trinitarians seem to be unitarians 99% of the time. The 1% trinitarian mode only shows up when they are asked about it, and then the confusion begins.
This centuries old debate started by Arius and Anthancious in the 4th Century will never end. Really good debate though. The NONE trinitarian view is more logical, simple, convincing, and scriptural in my opinion.
Really?
Who is Abraham seeing in Genesis 18:1-6. 🤣
@@KyrieEleisonMaranatha Jesus explicitly say I am not God in the Bible easy
Islam is what you are looking for.
Islam is the creation of Satan himself.
@@HawkLad Islam is totally uncompelling though.
Is Jesus part of the godhead/equal to God the Father because he is God's Son? What should we believe about Adam? "Adam, son of God." - Luke 3:38
Why would it state them as different identities through the entirety of the Gospels, even by them themselves, aside from some certain texts, which are in my belief , easily misunderstood statements? That would be a contradiction in scripture. Don’t forsake Father, and don’t be deceived. Narrow is the path to salvation.
This debate is easy to win. Just ask Michael if God has a God above him. Which Michael will have to say no, there is no God above God. He will try to sly his way with working Jesus as God, but all you have to point out is Jesus calls the Father greater than himself, also the Father is his God, and lastly Jesus is always the second to the Father in heaven and on earth, yet God is not second to any. Case closed.
М. Brown's arguments are very weak. Moses is called God in Ex. 7:1. Is Moses God?
Hebrews 1:8 quotes Psalms where the king is called God. How many Gods are there for Dr. Brown?
Moses is said to be "like God" in Exod 7:1, he is not "called God." BTW, this is not new, Gen 1:26-27f
@@drcdeane The word "like" doesn't exist in the text. It was added. Gen. 1:26 doesn't mention Jesus. Jesus never said: I took place in the creation of the world.
@@milkshake5_-.m that king in Psalm 45 is Jesus. That's why Paul applies Psalm 45 to Jesus in Hebrews 1:8-9. Where we see the Father calling Jesus God.
Is Moses actually called God, or are you referring to his interaction with Pharaoh where God told Moses....You SHALL be as God to Pharaoh and Aaron shall be to you a prophet?
ALL Dr Brown has to do to destroy his non argument is refer him to Jesus' prayer John chapter 17. 5....FATHER glorify me thine OWN self WITH the SAME glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Thank you
The mediator between God and man must also be both God and man! Jesus by His Blood and sacrifice bridges the gap!
What a silly meaningless statement.
1 Timothy 2:5
[5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus,
But for God it's good and acceptable Man jesus to be mediator🤷🏻♀️
This really doesn’t have to be that difficult at all, let’s try and keep things real simple.
1st /and foremost..... who did God the FATHER sayJessus Christ was.....
MATT 3 vr 17...
“This is my beloved (SON )in whom I am well - pleased.”
Who did Jesus the Christ say he was ...
Jhon 10 vr 36....
“Because I said, I am the(SON )of God.”
Who did the demons say Jesus the Christ was....
MATT 8 vr 29....
“What business do we have with each other, (SON )of God”
Who did Simon Peter believe Jesus the Christ was ....
MATT 16 vr 16 -17...
Simon Peter answered and said “ you are the Christ, the (SON )of the living God”
2nd/ who did Jesus the Christ say his Father was .....
Jhon 17 vr 1 -3.....
“ this is eternal life that they may know you, the only (TRUE )God (AND )Jesus Christ, whom (YOU )have sent”
So we see the Son (OF) God,confess his Father is the only (TRUE )God so if Jesus is (THE)God in the flesh, and his father is the only( TRUE) God ..... what God dose this make Jesus the Christ ?
Now I think so far this has been pretty simple and quite biblical in presentation. Now the only answer I have ever had from a trinitarian on the above question in Jhon 17 vr 3, is to ASSUME and I say ASSUME ..... that this was Jesus the Christ, praying to the father with in his human nature’,and not his God one, to set the example of how we are to pray to the true God..But this Im afraid isn’t good enough by simply trying to concoct an un biblical two natured Christ. No such thing is ever taught in scripture without digging and twisting other bible verses. The truth is, a lie has to be created to answer this question,
3rd/ lets say for arguments sake, Jesus the Christ did have a God nature and a human nature (ie) (the God man) ...when Christ was crucified and died, his human nature perished along with him....... 1 pet 3 vr 18.... Jesus the Christ was made alive in the spirit......so now must be fully GOD, so he was no longer dependant on his father in an earthly sense of Jhon 17 vr 3...... but yet he still spoke of his father as his God in Jhon 20 vr 17, after his resurrection ????
Also Jhon the disciple ,who Christ, loved much, a very spiritual man as can be seen in his gospel writings, fully understood this whilst writing the book of revelation .... Jesus the Christ now standing at the fathers right hand ACTS 7 :55 ... still has a father and God in heaven REV 1 vr 6......so, so much for Christ only acknowledging the only true God whilst he was in human flesh !!!!
The bible is very clear... crystal clear, that the son ( Jesus the Christ) has a father ( THE GOD) and ( THE GOD ) is the sons (GOD)....so to make The son equal with the father, “co equal and always existed “..... is to Have Two Gods co exist along side each other.... which categorically makes one of this belief a polytheist....... there is absolutely no way around this without conjuring up another lie, and teaching they are both one and the same person in a triune God head, an ASSUMPTION That has not and cannot be proven through scripture, it’s a preconceived idea that man has moulded into the bible, and force fitted it with twisted scripture!!!...... there’s one GOD And one. Son 1 CORINTHIANS 8 :6......
It’s that simple ... dose it really need all theses apologists trying to prove or disprove something that clearly proves itself through the fathers and Christ’s very own words ....????
Ben Watkins John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus is both the son of God the Father and always existed inside the Godhead with the Holy Spirit.
He’s also a separate person.
Just like a father and son relationship on earth, but they are God.. why Jesus is the only Begotten Son and we are all adopted in.
The Father spoke himself into existence in a form and through that physical form he used his word to produce all things.
At the end God will have created a kingdom for his self where he is rightfully worshiped as God and Savior and Lord by a people who were like him with the knowledge of good and evil yet choose to seek holiness. 🙏🏻
*Tveezy Stuntz*
Thank you for your reply.
But in a respectful manner, I don’t feel that your response,in any way answers my above presentation.
1/ jhon 17:3.
Jesus whilst in his flesh ,prays to the “ONLY TRUE GOD” .....
Jhon 20:17.
A resurrected Jesus, confesses he has a “GOD and FATHER”he is ascending to.
Rev1:6,
Tells us the son has a “FATHER and GOD in heaven”.
Now keeping things simple for the moment.... In the light of the above biblical verses. Christ has both a GOD and FATHER in the heavens.
So taking the scripture as it presents itself, Christ clearly had a FATHER and GOD whilst on earth..... he clearly had a FATHER and GOD he was ascending to ... and it clearly says he is in heaven with his FATHER and GOD.
How can anyone possibly miss interpret the meaning of the above verses.?? Dose Christ have a FATHER and GOD, or not ??????
So to except your presentation of jhon 1 vr 1....would mean one has to except The son and THE God to be same beings, this totally contradicts
The biblical presentation of THE GOD and His SON in the above verses.
If they are the same beings......this would mean ....................................
The SON cannot really be the FATHER.... and the FATHER cannot really be the SON .... unless there is role play involved, ( ie) GOD plays the role of a son which would mean the SON dose not literally exist.... and so the FATHER can’t literally exist...... which leads one to assume only GOD exists with no literal SON and the son has no literal FATHER ..... and this I’m afraid leads one into the warning of 1 jhon 4:3...... one has to confess CHRIST came in the flesh, not YEHOVAH , come in the flesh...... also .... it denies the true father and son relationship by diminishing it to a role play 1 jhon 2 : 22 :23.
Ben Watkins only respect over here too brother!
Can you tell me interpretation of John 1:1 and John 1:14?
If we agree Jesus is the Word and the Word came in flesh and the Word was God, how does that fit into your understanding of the Word and God being completely separate? I believe my understanding is the correct understanding simply because it makes sense in light of all verses not just some of them.
*Tveezy Stuntz*
To my understanding the “word “and “THE GOD “are not of equal status in Jhon’s writings....... my reasons for this are as follows......
“In the beginning was the word = logos, and the word = logos .... was toward THE God = ho Theo’s ....and god = Theo’s was the word = logos.
Theo’s just means “god”..... it’s a Greek word for “god” .... God is a title and only has a meaning to an individual when the individual attaches a person or meaning to it ...... so in the context of Jhon’s writings..... we understand he is a devout Jew and worships the Hebrew God YEHOVAH ... so in his Greek writing he would express his YEHOVAH .... by penning THE GOD = ho Theo’s.. by inserting the definite article “THE” before Theo’s..... which was freely at his disposal in Greek grammar.
Now when Jhon pens “and the word was god “ .... he drops the definite article “THE” and just pens Theo’s instead of ho Theo’s ... “god instead of THE GOD”.... and this has a direct meaning to his interpretation of the word god = Theo’s.... without his definite article we are back to just” god” ... and as we have seen god = Theo’s can mean anything ,unless the one writing expresses different.... and jhon here is clearly expressing the difference between ho Theo’s and just Theo’s.....THE GOD and god..... so when jhon says “ and god was the word” he is not saying”THE GOD “was the word..
Or that is what he would of written.
So this leads us to what did Jhon mean when he penned “god was the word,” without the definite article “THE”.. this can rightly be expressed as “a god”..or the word was divine by nature ...seeing the “word” is only a ( thing or it) it needs the writer to express what he actually means by the word= logos ..... Jhon could be referring to the word as the son in REV 19 :13.... (but remembering with out the definite article the son is not” THE GOD”) but could be ( a begotten god ) jhon 1 vr 18.... and also remembering the expression of the “ word “ was towards THE God is in every way expressing the word is separate to THE GOD, and this word becomes flesh in jhon 1 vr 14.
Also as The “ word “ = logos can mean
Gods “thought or plan”...this dose not mean the “ word “ logos is THE GOD himself ... but it can mean it’s THE GODS divine plan and thought in his mind ... and THE GODs plan or thought
Was to come into existence at Jhon 1vr 14.... meaning that his plan the logos was always towards him in the future ... rather like the expression “ the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world “ REV 13 vr 8...... we know Christ was not slain before the foundation of the world, but we understand it was a thought / plan in Gods mind that was to happen at a future date ... ( ie) it was always toward him.....
And to finish in jhon 1 vr 2.... it says and (he) which could be a begotten god Theo’s ....was towardsTHE GOD = ho Theo’s ... once again Jhon draws the distinction between god =Theo’s and THE GOD = ho Theo’s.
Or if we are to interpret the word = logos as a thought or plan.... in vr 2 Autos =( HE ) can rightly be rendered Autos = ( IT) the word/ thought / plan etc...towards THE GOD.
Either way ,the word Theo’s is never equal to ho Theo’s in this context.
Not specific on texts when presenting his argument, in the end they are just his words which are all over the place.
"Only the Father is God; in the New Testament the word God usually applies except for the times when it doesn't"...
Dr Tuggy has a very strange view of Jesus' Sonship, and an actually blasphemous one-- just a man who somehow "volunteered" to be God's "only" Son. How on earth can ANY MERE MAN take on the Sonship by himself?! Strange. (BTW Hebrews says that no one takes on the honor of being the High Priest on himself. It must be given by the Father).
Volunteer is wrong. God sent his own Son, but God being his own Son of himself and 2 other people who are also God (meaning they share the same status as him yet he is their Son) is not strange?
"One GOD...one Lord"(Adon) [ GOD appointed, granted, sent, resurrected, exalted Jesus]
Both titles were given to Jesus by Thomas
"The Spirit of God within Jesus" the same happens to us...so are we God?
No, because Jesus is properly called "my God" (John 20:28) but believers are not to refer to each as such.
you're not Gods very word made flesh through a virgin birth using Gods DNA that his fulness dwells inside , are you?
Look for El Evangelio según Yojanán (parte2) Cap 1:1 Arjë, Logos y Meymra'
This is the first time I've seen a trinitarian debate without getting angry. Dr. Brown did a good job and showed some class something you don't normally see from trinity proponents.
In fact, Dr Tuggy was rather disrespectful and condescending, but Dr Brown rose above the pettiness. Well done, Dr Brown. You brought scripture and correctly interpreted it, unlike Dr Tuggy, who kept on changing scripture, meaning as he went by.
Dr. Brown is full of [well you know what ], I caught him in several contradictions. You heard what you wanted to hear. Right?
Dr. Brown, I take off my Hat for you.
Why do people ignore John 17:3 like this verse isn't clear. You don't need any outside explanation to understand that Verse.
The verse is clear. There is no other God than the Father. And Jesus is no other God than the Father. Father, Son and holy Spirit are one God
Anyone can explain why God change His mind to be a man and die on other man hand, when He was said...
Numbers 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill ?
Exactly! GOD is not a man. HE doesn't lie, and HE doesn't change HIS mind. And obviously cannot die!👍
Father in Heaven bless you.🙏
Debates are painful to watch sometimes. I think it would be cool to hear a debater say something like, "I understand how you could see that..." or "that makes sense but this is why I disagree..." Instead, it seems like no one will give an inch of logic to the other side.
Dr/ Brown couldn't agree with falseness.
What bothers me is, why did God allow these few passages that caused this doctrine to become so divisive? Why wasn't the Nician council discussed ? Imagine the winners murdering the losers! That speaks volumes of the evil of the winer's.
@@johngravinese2521 in those days there were some issues going on, people got kill just because they thought different. Just by saying "ok , but what about " dead.
@@johngravinese2521 hi there, just out of curiosity did you ever research the truth about what led up to the council in Nicea and what took place, who the members were ,etc?
Reason I ask is because I always hear people speak about this council but rarely does it seem they know anything about it. Its just proposed that the Trinity was made up etc. I used to believe this before I actually researched in depth. Just curious if you did as well.
@@johngravinese2521 Maybe God wanted us to look closer at this. His reasoning is beyond what we can comprehend. Ask God why these things happen, he may or may not answer. It is for us to seek his guidance, to be closer to God.
Incredible debate, learned a lot from both sides. I think the Trinity still stands from scripture but it was interesting.
Just curious, have you read the Bible all the way through from the beginning without commentary?
Do you also believe pigs fly??
Have you looked at the individual scriptures through a unitarian lense? Have you compared the methodology between the two? Have you compared the logic between the two?
I spent weeks and months looking at the trinity. I prayed about it constantly, in fact I still pray for eyes to see the truth and to be brought to my knees if I am ignorant of the truth.
I concluded with continual prayer, that there is nothing logical or reasonable about the trinity. It's a fallacious logical argument, and once logic and reasoning has left the faculties, you are open to any ridiculous interpretation because you are no longer bound by logic and reason.
I honestly and truly believe with all my heart, if you are a trinitarian you have NOT done any due diligence or intellectually honest investigation in to the doctrine, nor have you compared the line of reasoning to both unitarian and trinitarian conclusion.
The trinity is void of any logic, and trinitarians are okay with that. And that's the biggest problem.
@@TaxEvasi0n if you need to read "individual scriptures through a unitarian lense" in order to reach a unitarian view, then that alone should raise concerns over the doctrine itself.
@@priscillajervey8345
Can you pls explain to me why the description how God created the heavens and the earth and is eternal and never changes from Psalm 102,25-27 is quoted and applied to Jesus in Hebrews 1,10-12. And why God in Isaiah 44,24 and Job 9,8 said, He created heavens and earth alone?
My explanation is that Father, Son and holy Spirit are one triune God that created the heaven and earth alone.
Whats your explanation?
*Psalm 102,25-27*
*1 Hear my prayer, O LORD, and let my cry come unto thee.*
[...]
*25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.*
*26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:*
*27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.*
*Hebrews 1,8-12*
*8 But unto the Son he (God, the Father) saith,*
[...]
*10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:*
*11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;*
*12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.*
*Hebrews 1,10*
*And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:*
*Isaiah 44,24*
Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, *I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;*
*Job 9,8*
*Which ALONE spreadeth out the heavens,* and *treadeth upon the waves of the sea.*
*Matthew 14,25*
And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, *walking on the sea.*
It’s crystal clear that the father is the only true God.
So why people keep trying to go with unclear verses.
Only means no one else.
We should worship the only true God, the Father. We should NOT worship Jesus. Jesus is a prophet as also stated clearly who we respect and love as one of God’s prophets to call people to the only true God.
“The LORD’s lamp is the life-breath of man...” Proverbs 20:27
“And dust returns to earth as it was, and the life-breath returns to God Who gave it.”
Qohelet (Ecclesiastes) 12:7
“As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
James 2:26
So when we die it looks as if the spirit and the body are separate. So why is it so hard to comprehend Christ giving up his spirit...
“And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.”
Matthew 27:50
The body was then buried and then raised after 3 days. To me it’s easy to say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit the same way I can say human soul, human spirit, and human body. All existing simultaneously but different right?
1 Thessalonians 5:23
“May the God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
One of the audience there asked a question to Micheal Brown (@ 2.02.02). The question was how come Jesus did not know the hour if he was God (God the Son). Brown suddenly sticked on man Jesus and said man Jesus did not know the hour. But in the verse Jesus said neither angels nor the "son" can know the hour. For that question, Brown chooses to focus on "man Jesus", but same Dr. Brown denied Son Jesus's death because he believes "Son" is divine God and cannot die, so "man Jesus" could die only. But to the new question he focused on "man Jesus", instead of "son" (according to him divine part of Jesus), however in the verse it is said, "son can not know the hour". In fact, Brown's theology is crushed because he says that "son Jesus" cannot die since" son Jesus" is God part of Jesus, on the other hand, Brown says "son Jesus" cannot know the hour because he is a man.... Confusion...
@Saint Belligerant Yes, it is sad. I was doing the same thing, ignoring the other thing since I was told and taught trinitarian idea. But there was always questions since it was not all things summed up. So I decided to study all the written words in the bible as it is.
Question: is Jesus a liar? (Please be careful how you answer, I do not want you to blaspheme).
@@achsevin6505 I guess the one who should answer to your question is not us, but trinitarian friends. To us Jesus never lied, he always said he is servant son of God, Messiah. He was one man who has been given authority and a mission by God. He said his a God, he said he has a God is the same God of us, both his and our Heavenly Father (John 17:3, 20:17).
Tuğba Erdal where in Scripture does it say He is "a god"?
@@achsevin6505 Nowhere. I am not the one who claim that Jesus is God. He is god as it is written in Psalms 82:6, sons of God called as "el" in hebrew "a god" in English, but not in literal meaning. I am not a trinitarian. I reject the idea of God's being more than one person or personality. I am not amodelist. I am not a Jehovah Witness. I am not a Mormon, I am not a Muslim. I just a Christian which means follower of Christ, I believe what he said, there is one only true God that is only Heavenly Father (John 17:3), and this Heavenly Father who is only treu God is both his and our God (John 20:17). I am a unitarian christian.
Dr. Brown Gotcha moment at Dr. Tuggy 1:35:34 When asked about 1 Thessalonians 3:13!
Yes! This was one of my favourite moment too! There is no praying to God + Jesus under one "he" here!
Dr Tuggy did such a calm and reasonable job of considering the claim, and then just reading the context of the verse!
@@lizzard13666 1 Thessalonians 3:11-13 is kind of ambiguous. In those verses Paul makes the distinction of God the Father being God and Jesus being Lord (not God). But he goes on to say to that church about certain things he want for both Jesus and God to do for them. Confusing.
@@uncertainty7421 Thanks for your reply! I just had a read of 1 Thes 4 to investigate. I read the NIV version, and I think it's a little clearer maybe, see if you like my explanation:
In verse 1 they are told to live to please God, who is Yahweh (the Father) according to the previous passage. V1 goes on to tell them to do this "in Lord Jesus". Verse 2 elaborates a bit further and shows that Jesus gave the disciples the authority to pass on these instructions. Here's another verse to back this idea up:
John 17:18 (NASB95) “As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
Back to 1 Thess 4. V3 states that it's God's will (still the Father in context) that they should be sanctified, see the verse before my previous reference:
John 17:17 (NASB95) “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.
Verse 5 is God as in Yahweh again.
Verse 6 is where "The Lord" will punish people. This is Jesus who will do the punishing/judging:
John 5:22 (NASB95) “For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
Jesus was given the role of judge by Yahweh.
1 Thess 4:8 is a really interesting one. If we reject the disciples words here, we aren't rejecting "a human being, but God". This seems to suggest by inference that God can't be human, so it further supports the fact that all instances of "God" in this passage are Yahweh. So who gives the Holy Spirit then, because Jesus said he would send it right? Well read this carefully:
John 15:26 (NASB95) “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
Jesus is sending it, but it is from Yahweh, the Father. The Spirit actually proceeds from Yahweh, not Jesus, but Jesus has been given the authority to send it to his disciples.
I hope my analysis helps, if there's any other confusing points feel free to bring them up!
@Abraham Mani How do you know that it was Jesus and the holy spirit you seen? No one knows what Jesus looks like. The holy spirit can't be seen. How do you know the voice of God and of Jesus?
yep, Tuggy nailed him down on that one and he tried to wave it away saying something to Tuggy about not understanding the Greek. ha. Brown just spits out verse after verse without ever digging deep. context is not his friend.
Sorry, Dr. Brown, Hebrews 1:10 is about the Father, not the son. You seem very confused.
Listen, even the Roman Centurion could understand.. keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!” (Matt. 27:45-54).
Is Jesus the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation of Gods being in whom all things are held together? YES
Is Jesus the ruler of Gods creation? YES
Does all that belong to the Father also belong to the Son? YES
Is Jesus the Christ? YES
Is the Father in the Son and are they are one? YES
Is it the Father who glorifies Jesus? YES
Is Jesus the wisdom and power of God? YES
Do all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge dwell in the Son? YES
Is Jesus the mediator of a new covenant between God and man? YES
Did Jesus state He was the true vine and the Father was the gardener? YES
Did Jesus state every branch not in the vine withers and dies? YES
Is it in Jesus how God chose to forgive sin? YES
Is Jesus the one who judges? YES
Is it lawful to pray to Jesus? YES
Do those that listen and learn from the Father go to the Son? YES
So in light of all this is the trinity, (even if it has error in part) , a lie and deception? NO
Jesus is all that the Father is and He is Lord and Christ. In Him alone is found eternal life.
I can’t believe Michael said that he believed that Jesus didn’t die!
Jesus the fully man die but the Spirit did not die. Jesus is fully God and fully man
Ladislao Melgar so if his spirit didn’t die how is our spirit saved?
@@dhodzmelgar2933 fully man and fully god. Fully square yet fully circle. The cake is there but you ate it. Complete left yet completely right. Anything else?
I believe he was attempting to express that necessity and obviousness of the death of Jesus's flesh but not his supernatural expression of eternal existence. As a point of explanation:
Matt 10:28: "And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
"
Matt 27:50: "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit"
At least what I take away from this is that the spirit is not dead upon the death of the physical body, and this was expressed euphemistically on the cross when Jesus "gave up his spirit". The obvious purpose was to resolve and declare the termination of Jesus' physical life -- as a secondary proceeding, we see that Jesus' physicality is declared dead but not his spirit. The incarnation died, the Son did not die.
If you're left with the lingering question of spiritual death too, I suppose that's a part of the whole -- Jesus defeated death, because He was singularly qualified and capable of it due to his sinlessness. I don't think I'm straying into some heresy I'm aware of by speculating that perhaps by the nature of His eternal and uncorrupted existence, He was unable to be "reaped" into the destruction of His soul in addition to His body when he departed the physical realm into the spiritual realm [described as Sheol/Hades in the text]. So upon resurrection, He brought life back into His former mortal coil.
Thus physical death, the shedding of blood to redeem as a sacrifice, and then the resurrection to defeat death by defying its power over Him..
Apologies for the stream of consciousness! Hope this was in some way useful.
Tyler Smith thank you for the response, I understand your point of view. If it helps here is a link to what I believe and hopefully you can understand my dilemma a little better.
www.pursuegod.org/hebrew-word-study-nefesh/
Saying the apostles baptized in the name of the trinity is false. That verse where Jesus says to baptize them in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit was added in the Bible and yet even still doesn’t equate a 3 in one god. Moreover, later in Acts the apostles are ONLY mentioning Jesus’ name when they baptize.
1. Can you show me 1 baptism performed in the Bible where the apostles did not baptize someone how Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19.
2. The Didache was written in 90 a.d. and clearly outlines Matthew 28:19. So where are getting this lie that Matthew 28:19 was later added. That's a bold faced lie buddy. We have the earliest manuscripts of Matthew 28:19 with the trinity formula in it. We also have the Didache in 90 a.d. affirming Matthew 28:19 was how everyone is to be baptized.
Actually if you read Matthew 28:19 a little closer. Jesus gives 3 persons only 1 name/authority. Matthew 28:19 says to baptize in THE NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
1 name/authority for 3 persons.
God exists outside of time, he created time. You are using your logic to point to “one time” and looking at things that differ. Yes they differ and they are the same. You cannot comprehend it. Allow in your logic that God can “be.” Whatever follows that “can be” is not for you to decide. It is for God to decide. It is for God to decide what he “be’s” for the lack of a more similar term, and using unusual English. It is not for you to decide what God is. Let’s look at the argument “God is true trinity.” Are you endowed to say God “cannot be and is not” any description, for that matter. It would be more blasphemous to say God cannot come to become something.
The debate though, is what he has revealed himself to be through his word to us though.
"Son of the LIVING GOD!"
So two Gods
@@PEH5806one God. Multiple gods. Read the scriptures and you will see this terminology clearly.
@@johnyysimmerz
There is no such thing as multiple gods..There No God except One True God
I am simple-minded and can see that I have absolutely zero chance of making it to heaven. To embrace the trinity without reservation will require years of intense study on many levels. There are so many related, questionable subjects that need thorough investigation and understanding before i can, accept it with 100% confidence. When did Christianity get so hard?
It's really not that difficult. Some people say the Trinity is like a chicken egg. You have three parts but one egg. You are three in one. You have a body, Soul and Spirit but you are one person. (But we are not gods in any way).People make it difficult but it's really not, don't let them confuse you.
Plus the Bible does not say that you have to understand the Trinity to go to heaven. You have to repent and accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and follow him. Unitarians deny Jesus as fully deity, and so does Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. But to do that you have to deny many many many scriptures and accuse Jesus of being a liar when he said that he is eternal. You can believe in the Trinity without completely understanding it. I believe in gravity but nobody knows really what it is, we just know of its effects. Same with light.
GraceKeyz it became hard and nonsensical when the trinity was made up around the fourth century, infused with Hellenism, Greek Philosophy and paganism.
A child can understand the simple relationship between a father and son. A child understands simple words like “one” and “only”.
John 20:31, Romans 10:9-10
John 17:3, Mark 12:29
The Gospel message is simple. We don’t need a PhD in philosophy to understand.
@@kaitlinjensen the concept of the trinity is in the gospel, that was written by people who lived during the time of Christ. And God is more complex than that, Jesus existed before he came to earth so neither the father, son or holy ghost had a mother or were born into existence, they are eternal.
@@kaitlinjensenczcams.com/video/fGPw3krHlNQ/video.html Was not made up around the fourth century, just something you've heard on the internet like the junk about the dying and rising gods when there are none, nobody who actually studies biblical history believes these things because it's not there, was there from the beginning please don't spread that lie around anymore. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and was believed that way since the beginning as a matter of history. Please repent and believe the right Jesus and the true gospel.
The almighty Father is ONE, eternal and blessed. On the wood of the cross it is impossible for the ONE to have separated from itself, because the ONE is eternally ONE and blessed. The Messiah took our place and became a curse. He said to his Father, "Father, why have you abandoned me?" So the trinity broke? - 2 vs 1 ?
What a great statement witness of the word wow
Where’s the God head in the Bible?
Acts 17:29
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
KJV
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
KJV
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Dr.Dale Tuggy: "Some scholars say"
Dr.Michael Brown: "The Scriptures say" He nailed it! Thank you,Dr.Brown I really admire your body of work!
YESHUA- "The Great I AM
See John 9 9 in the Greek and the passage that you referred in Greek.
@(( Christian Man )) Test Paul as a true apostle.
Joseph Smith and many other false prophets also say, "the scriptures say." You are simplifying Dr. Tuggy's postion to try and knock it down. That's a strawman argument. Dr. Tuggy referred both to scholars AND scripture as he gives a better overall context. Which is necessary part of being a good Bible student.
Tuggy is a heretic, and not too rational. He’s making a god in his own image.
AMEN! Keep spreading the Truth and the Good News!
Isaiah 9:6
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
This verse and prophecy clearly speaks to The Trinity and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST! ✝️✡️
@ 45:09 Dr Tuggy states: "As the eminent scholar James Dunn says: There is no evidence that any new testament writer thought of Jesus as actually present in Israels past, neither as the angel of the LORD or as the LORD Himself" Either Dr Tuggy is totally blind because the new testament writers do without a doubt utilize old testament passages that speak of the LORD and apply them to Jesus or he is just outright lying!
WHAT IS THIS SECOND MAN READING FROM ? “ A COMIC BOOK “ ?
Can someone show me in the Bible where 3 persons are described as one being? Not just one but one being? Thanks.
i can, right here, look now, dummy
@Wrong doctrine Silly rabbit tricks are for kids.
So the Bible has to say something specifically to prove it exists ? Illogical
@@CyprusHot It has to say it for us to have the authority to repeat it *as truth.*
Hermes Huguet learn to read - I said does it have to be SPECIFIC. God has his way. And his way isn’t according to you ! Use your brain
Thankyou so much dr. Brown. I have always been swayed back and forth till this video. I truly know and believe who jesus is today. I struggled with this for 25years.
Now I wonder if I need to be rebaptised?
This is great. All Glory to God. Please dont hesitate to reach out if you would like to talk more about this.
@@choicemeatrandy6572 I was fully emersed baptized in a church 25 years ago but always swayed on how jesus fit in the godhead. Does this mean I need to be rebaptized?
@@lsoles733 Were you saved when you got baptized or did you simply do it ceremoniously?
@@choicemeatrandy6572 that is a big question. My understanding of jesus as God is only 1 day old. I thought it possible before but never knew it. I know now. So what is your definition of saved? Not understanding the God head at that point is where I'm unsure if I need rebaptism
GOD And JESUS make the Men to are image That means the working together FATHER and the son Hoy Spirit was in the Watwer Dr Brow thantks for all you Work GOd Bless you❤️🌎🙏🏾🔥
Not "are image" but our image.
Armando Mercado yes you right they are real not image
@@irenevazquez3452 cheers Irene. 🙏☺️
*Where is Lamar Hunt hiding??? I asked him a question, and he deleted my comments, and then blocked me, making it appear if I was the run running. Then he comments on *my* channel.
I would like to ask Michael Brown if his triune God is the same as Jesus' God -- did Jesus worship the Triune God of modern Christianity? Remember he said he was going "to my God and your God". Did not our Master the only sinless man obey the Greatest commandment in the Law and Love YHWH, his God with all his heart, might, mind and strength? Is he not our perfect example?
Brown keeps saying that Unitarians don't worship the God of the Bible. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus is the God of the Bible, PERIOD!
The only true God is the God and Father of our Lord and Savior Yeshua the Messiah -- and that is not a triune God!
yeah your wrong
The point that Dr. Brown is trying to make is that when you say Jesus isn't God and that He is simply a lesser being but then go ahead and worship Him as God and pray using His name, that you are engaging in idolatry. You are only supposed to worship God, if you worship a created being you are not worshiping God and are therefore breaking the first and second commandments that were given to Moses.
You put a period where God doesn't. Matthew 28:19 says each member of the Triune Godhead has a NAME, and that name is Yahovah or Yahweh or the less anointed but correct Greek theos or God, understanding that He is not just any Elohim. He is the Creator Elohim, and it was the WORD who spoke the creation into being on behalf of the Father, who has never descending to earth yet as did the Yahweh of the First Testament.
Song Commentaries by RB Scott why do you insist Jesus is YHWH when Psalm 110:1 proves otherwise?
Yeshua is not YHWH and he said so when he told the Jews that his father is the one they call God. They were Jews and they knew who God was as indicated by Jesus when he said that the Jews know what they worship to the woman at the well.
As far as the term "worship" goes, it is an english word that does not convey the exact meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words it is translated from, which usually mean bow down or pay homage or giving honor too. It was given to kings, rulers as well as God himself. The key is that the honor due to the Son is not the same as that due to the Father as clearly shown in Revelation chapters 4 & 5. This is also shown by the fact that Yeshua refuses to take credit for his teachings and miracles but gives all the glory to the Father when he said "of myself I can do nothing, it is the Father that dwells in me [through the in dwelling of the Spirit], HE DOES THE WORKS"!
I wish dr. Tuggy would've used 1 chronicles 29:20 to support the kind of worship Jesus received...
And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS please prove what u claimed by using any hermeneutical approach. U obviously dont understand near eastern culture or ethics. Bowing down or prostrating one self is an act of homage and reverence one gives to someone in a higher place. The west sees such action as a form of worship. And so western scholars confuse themselves and refuse to see Jesus getting the same type of reverence given to him. Instead would rather say he was being worshipped with the same religious intent as YHWH himself. Even when tempted in the wilderness, Jesus quoted that one should worship and serve God only. He never told his tempter to worship him. Even the demons believe God is one and they tremble. Trinitarians have no fear of God believing he is 3. Please study both Greek words and forms of worship and how its used in all contexts when everyone bows the knee to Jesus. After you've done a thorough study, come back to me and we will discuss it. David was revered because he was Gods Christ/Messiah (anointed one) and king. So is Jesus but with much higher authority... seated at Gods right hand. Jesus deserves praise and adoration to the glory of God the Father who made him and anointed him. Jesus entire ministry was aimed to bring peace between us and our Creator through himself alone. One mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ.
@@chinochris3181 very well said
@EOTJ APOLOGETICS I appreciate ur kind demeanor. As a Greek student, what exactly is proskuneo and how is it used in the context of rev 5? I posted the Hebrew equivalent to proskuneo by citing 1 Chronicle 29:20. Both subjects, whether God and king, or God and Lamb are both being bowed down to in proskuneo (worship).
Also all creation bows down to Jesus because he is "firstborn" (preeminent) over all creation. And he is worthy of praise and proskuneo. Nowhere in the text does it indicate that because Jesus was not categorized with the other creation that he himself is not created. You are inserting your theology into the plain reading of the text. Not very hermeneutical in your approach sir.
Please reexamine the 1 chronicles 29 passage and compare it to rev 5. There is virtually no difference in the manner "worship" is used in both contexts...
@@chinochris3181 "The word "proskuneo" means "to kiss the hand, bow down before, show obeisance, to worship." Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God, they maintain that He is not to be worshipped. So, how does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society translate the word "proskuneo" in their Greek New Testament in reference to Jesus and other objects of adoration? The NWT nevertranslates the word into "worship" when it references Jesus. It does, however, render the word as "worship" regarding the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, and an angel. Of course, they correctly translate it as "worship" when it deals with God.
Is the New World Translation biased against worshipping Jesus? It would surely seem so and especially since the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, etc., all translate the word as "worship" in reference to Jesus."
AND
"First of all, 1 Chron. 29:20 obviously cannot mean that David was worshiped equally with God. This would be blasphemy. Therefore, it is best to translate the Hebrew word shachah as "pay homage" or "bow down" as is attested to by other translations.
"Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king," (NASB)."Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king," (NIV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king," (NKJV)."Then David said to all the assembly, "Bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king," (ESV).
Is it legitimate to translate the verse this way? Yes it is because it is consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word shachah can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, (Enhanced Strong's Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.) See the same thing stated in The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Richard Whitaker, Editor, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997). This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshiped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God--though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not."
Moreover, when the Ancient Days is explicitly shown sharing his divinity with the "one like a son of man" (keep in mind that "like" indicates that the being isn't human: it usually signifies angels, but no angel would be given shared divinity with YHWH, and this is further clarified by Hebrews 1) the word used for "worship" is pelach, which is a different Hebrew word the one that appears in the scene with David. This means that the word pelach is in some way directly connected to divinity, unlike other words that could have been chosen.
The point being, mixing New Testament texts with Old Testament texts without discernment has many many problems to it.
@@blanktrigger8863 the problem is you are also taking bias just as JWs concerning shachah or proskuneo. U accuse JWs for changing the meaning of worship when it concerns Christ. But u have no problem when trinitarians change the meaning to suit worship to Christ.
Context always determines the use of the word. U said correctly that "only" God receives worship. There is only one God, YHWH (deut 6:4). So only God receives religious worship. if anyone else besides YHWH is receiving shachah/proskuneo a long with him, they are being shown reverence. The english translation of Hebrew and Greek words for worship causes confusion. KJV had no problem translating it into worship in 1 chronicles 29 because that's what it literally says.
Worship of God alone is a worship only given to our Creator. Bowing down to his anointed (Messiah) is our demonstration of giving him glory.
I think u should study a bit more on near eastern culture. Learn more about bowing customs in those days and why they were performed. God and His Christ both deserve to be kneeled to in reverence and awe. But God alone deserves his unique worship as Creator of all.