Old School Amp Dyno Drag Race - Crossfire CFA-15HC vs Orion HCCA 225R [4K]
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2019
- #AmpDyno #CheaterAmps #HCCA
Today we are having another old school Amp Dyno Drag Race, cheater amp style! Both from 1998, we will test out the Crossfire CFA-15HC vs the Orion HCCA 225R. The HCCA series for Orion are legendary, going back to the mid 1980's. Crossfire came to market (Paramount Audio) in the mid 90's and in 1998 decided to put up the challenge to Orion with their own high-current amplifier models. Ironically, the end of the cheater amp era was ending, thanks to the 1997 Orion Concept 97-3 and it's 0.5W x 2 rating at 4 ohms. We'll cover that in a future video.
Today it's newcomer Crossfire vs established king, Orion. Who will come out on top? Gotta watch to find out!
CORRECTION: In the video I mention the Crossfire uses MOSFET outputs, but it actually uses Bipolar Outputs, same as Orion. It has a MOSFET Power Supply using IRFZ44 Transistors. Sorry for the confusion!
Search for used amps:
Orion 225 HCCA: ebay.to/3xg9RsI
Crossfire CFA: ebay.to/3xnQ6zo
Orion/PPI Speaker Plug: ebay.to/3DUyk8p
Orion/PPI Power Plug: ebay.to/3xctORn
Other Amp Dyno Drag Races with Orion:
Orion 225 HCCA vs MTX MTA-225: • Cheater Amp Dyno Drag ...
Orion HCCA 225R vs MTX 225HO: • Cheater Amp Wattage Dr...
Orion HCCA 225R vs Rockford Fosgate Power 50.2: • Rockford Fosgate Power...
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![Old School HiFonics vs Orion Amp Dyno and SPL Testing [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sDZhWJ8Aj58/mqdefault.jpg)
![Old School HiFonics vs Orion Amp Dyno and SPL Testing [4K]](/img/tr.png)
Back in 94 I rolled with a pair of Orion HCCA 225's and those amps were incredibly dynamic but you could fry an egg on them running 1 ohm mono. I had the old school version of them that had like 10 Ga wire soldered to the board. I sent them in Orion to have them up-size it to 8 Ga and the amp didnt have internal cossovers so I had to use an external Audio Control active crossover. I really miss those amps, I wish I still had them
I own a cfa 404 and cfa 602 crossfires vintage 1998 and the sound quality is simply amazing.... Id heard em all back then and chose the crossfires. They are still going to this day.21 years of faithfull trouble free service in every day use
I've ran the 225 @.5 ohm until it was hot enough to fry and egg on it. It would turn off but I could always turn it back on and it would beat like there was no tomorrow! Loved it! I had to make connecters out of butt connectors.
yeah man!
Love both of these amps! Look at the Savard 6.5 taking 400+ watts like a champ 🤩
They both performed well and yeah what a perfect match to that Savard 6.5!
Great stuff Big D! I am so surprised on how well each amp did, more specifically how well the Crossfire held it's own.
Yeah boi!
I love these drag races! Thanks!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Sold a lot of hcca amps and subs back in the day, even building a demo van with 6 xtr 15s' all wired parallel to one hcca250.
Great stuff!
Sweet!
Search for used amps:
Orion 225 HCCA: ebay.to/3xg9RsI
Crossfire CFA: ebay.to/3xnQ6zo
Orion/PPI Speaker Plug: ebay.to/3DUyk8p
Orion/PPI Power Plug: ebay.to/3xctORn
Other Amp Dyno Drag Races with Orion:
Orion 225 HCCA vs MTX MTA-225: czcams.com/video/FZH2j0f2sWc/video.html
Orion HCCA 225R vs MTX 225HO: czcams.com/video/RkB-Xc3ApDY/video.html
Orion HCCA 225R vs Rockford Fosgate Power 50.2: czcams.com/video/crgTQ9UIpJ4/video.html
DISCLAIMER: This video and description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission. This helps support the channel and allows us to continue to make videos like this. Thank you for the support!
Amps draw??
PLease do the blaupunkt amp4000d 4000 watt amp.... It's the biggest one it claims 2800 rms and it has 4 40 amp fuses... Best part it's 109 dollars on Amazon!
Great video. Very informative. Nice to learn a little about past amplifiers.
History is important, also fun to be able to "bring them back" and perform modern style tests 🤙
The very first system I ever heard was in a Cadillac was for Orion 225 ribs running 12 Redline 8 inch subs and it blew my mind! I was stuck ever since I still run a Orion today I've switch to the extreme series instead of the Hcca. I've run all different sorts of ants and I still always come back where my heart and soul will always run with Orion
I totally understand & agree bro 👍👍
Awesome!
Are you talking about the ones with the red lightning bolt,,
I've installed dozens of each back in the day. A trip down in memory lane.
Thanks for watching and commenting and sorry for the late reply!
Very cool video Big D. Old school watts still sound very good. Looking forward to the next one!
Old School FTW!
Finally something worth watching! Notice the huge difference in components between older Korean built amps and Korean built amps today. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
My gosh I'd love to have either one of these!
I love that little Savard! I received two of their Hi-15's a couple of weeks ago my truck build. Can't wait to get them in and get this build started! I've got two months before the next surgery so I really need to get on it.
I need to upload my unboxing video for these beasts! Once again sir excellent video! We like seeing the new stuff but I like you going back to your roots every once in awhile!
I love keeping the old school alive! I'll have more of it on my 2nd channel Williston Audio Extras
Miss the drag races. Awesome vid. Always wondered about crossfire. But now i know
Boom shocka locka!
Hey Bid D, cool story for you....I just got a new job at a place called Salesforce, doing IT support. I'm walking to my desk and I spot what looks to be the "old school stereo" logo on a coworkers shirt. Well sure enough it's a Bid D Wiz, Old School Stereo shirt getting rocked by my coworker. Well needless to say I complimented him and I've now made a new friend. Bass heads, were everywhere! Thanks D, I now feel even more comfortable at my new job because of something as simple as a shirt. Im outta heeeeerrr!
That’s awesome! Shout out to Jeff and his friend at Salesforce 🤙
Super cool Jeff😎👍😎
Bass brings people together.
Another awesome video!
Thanks man, this one was from a couple of years ago but I know people sometimes miss my uploads.
I love amps, subs, batteries, altercators, cables, wires, knobs, heat sinks, etc!
Yes please..
My first Korean amp was in 1996?
I bought 2 fultron mx300 or was xm300... Fultrons biggest amp..
My local dealer laughed at me then he asked if he could open it.. I let him he was impressed..
They sounded very good. Out powered both my punch 150's..
Sold the rfs.. Sold the fultrons wish i kept them.. And still have my mtx 240..2160..and 2 2160's
I had a crossfire CFA602 back in the day and loved it
The first amp I ever got (before I even had a car lol) was one of those white crossfires with the colored blocks on top. A little 300w. Saved up for a month or so and got it brand new at a pawn shop. I always thought it was just a cheap generic brand but I put it in my truck a few months later and it beat on some 2 little 10s right up till it got jacked about a year later. Good to see little reminders of my youth and glad to know it wasn't shit I guess lol.
Best video intro ever. 🤣👍🇺🇸
And all this time I thought you tested sub woofers And other car audio equipment now we're back to car amplifiers about damn time D lol
I test mostly amps, but a lot of other A/V gear too
I still have a CFA202, probably not the highest power out there but for as old as it is....it STILL works perfectly to this day!
I have two CFA142's and one CFA202, and all three still work.
Still have a cfa202 and I've powered it up when I got it but I never gave it signal
I've got a CFA-602 tucked away
What a great matchup!
Like cheese on a hamburger!
I actually have one of these crossfire amps, as I got it for free from one of my former co workers. This was awesome!!!
thanks for watching and commenting!
As always another amazing video Big D. Orion did a couple of amps using Bipolar out puts (not cheap) . Could explain the heat differences. None the less I would definitely spend a little bit more for the Orion for the overall build quality and components used in the amp. Thanks again for the video.
@Dave Micolichek you definitely know more about this than I do. I always assumed mosfets ran cooler than then Bipolar. Not to proud to admit I was wrong. So anyway why go to mosfet if bipolar runs cooler and some say sounds better.
@Dave Micolichek makes sense. Back when I first started in to car audio class d amps were not even made and mosfet was the new craze. I was 15 when a Rockford Fasgate rep was telling me about how Fasgate was making all mosfet amps and soon Bipolar would be a thing of the past. I was also told that R/F would never make a class D amp because class D was dirty. My how things change. By the way thank you for your information i appreciate people who take time to explain things.
I corrected my misstatement in the video description. Both amps use Bipolar outputs. The MOSFET I was confused about is the Crossfire's power supply
Big D awesome video like always! My son just got a new Kicker 46cxa1200.1 to run his dc 15" level 3. The new line of amps from kicker are now one ohm stable. Would you be interested in showing us what it will do on the dyno? Thanks for your time showing rhe new generation what old school audio will do.
I have some old school rarities my self no where near as many as you sir . But I'm super happy to own them myself vids will be uploaded soon.
Let's see whatcha got!
Big D!!! Both amps showed they handled a half ohm load what happened to that test sir lol
1 ohm bridge would be the same as 0.5 ohm stereo
Remember these are stereo amps so 0.5 stereo is the same as 1 ohm bridged
Love these draggs
No Queens required 😝
Always loved the old crossfire amps, I had many different models of the cfa and tek series over the years. The cfa1000d is an identical board to the Memphis st1000d but the crossfire always seemed to be louder for some reason.
😬👍
As I thought, Crossfire won the drag. Both great amps. Awesome video, love the drag races!
Man was it close though!
One thing that would be awesome with these title drags is to have the efficiency numbers too especially with the wattage being so close then you get to see what's easier on your charging system
I had 3 xtr500.2 in my blazer with the exact configuration as the hcca. 1 played (4) 8" Mtx terminator woofers in 2ohm stereo 80hz-300hz, 1 played (4) 5 1/4" kicker component in 2 ohm stereo from 300hz to 3.5k, and 1 played (4) kicker 1" silk domes in 2 ohm stereo, all in the front doors off of a pioneer premier DeX-p1r... of course there was 2 kicker comp vr 18" playing 60hz and down off a xtr1400.2 AB. All were electronically crossed over at 24 to 36 db per octave. The woofers and midrange were electronically bandpassed...
Sweet!! 👍
@ Larry Keller ... ho li 💩
That sounds amazing 👍😎👍
Great video Big D Wiz! 👍
Late reply, but thanks man!
@@wal
Late is better than never! 👌
That Savard HiQ is putting in some work!
Fo sho!!
Nice work
Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@wal Yeah Buddy we all enjoy your hard work and dedication, Plus you help alot of people make better decisions on what to buy and what not to buy
Im still using my crossfire vr 402 every day since i bought it. I run a 4 ohm solo baric kicker 10" very happy.
Amps are bullet proof 100 just picked up a cfa602 for $30 😳😳
Great feedback!
My brother had the Crossfire 602(subs) & 404(mids & high), running 4 12" if the Croasfire 12" back in the late 90s. The subs werent the best but theae amps are on point!
Thanks for watching and commenting and my apologies on the late delay!
7:42 Look at those Chinesium electrolytic crapacitors.
Glad to see the Orion uses high quality Nichicon+Rubycon.
All electrolytic caps will eventually fail. Even Nichicon....
@@krismichalsky The point is Nichicon is much higher quality and will take a much longer time to fail.
I had a first generation 425 HCCA. I loved that amp.
Moon and stars FTW
Moon and Stars FOREVER!!!
Freakin' Moon & Stars baby!!
It's like the Catalina Wine Mixer! 😎👍😎
Is it just me, or did the Orion seem to have a faster transient control of the Hi-Q subwoofer? More musical maybe?
You're right.
Orion had better control b/c of the bipolar transistors & it's higher damping factor.
😎👍😎
Wow that was neck and neck!! Almost too close for comfort. Lol I'm very impressed with the Crossfire's guts. Pretty stout. My choice would be the Orion from an SQ standpoint. The bipolar transistor outputs always tend to be a lot warmer than MOSFETs. Great video bro!! 👌
Iv owned a cfa 602 crossfire since 1999 and its sound quality is amazing
@@adammarsden4650 no doubt.
The video is incorrect. The Crossfire also uses Bipolar transistors in the output. The HC amps were always my favorite Crossfire amp for SQ.
Hi Derek nice video
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Could u do the early 2000s Phoenix gold tantrum series? I used to have 2 1200.1s on 2 diamond TX 12s. No electrical upgrades except 2nd battery and 10 farad cap
Man am old keep it up Big D
Thank you sir, will do
Williston Audio Labs got ppi art series amps but loved old Orion stuff
Williston Audio Labs keep it old school for life American made
I'm taking the Orion amp ten times out of ten. Made in America baby.
I forgot to mention Korea vs USA with these
@williston audio labs i had the crossfire 302 way back in the day and i loved that amp just regretting letting it go.
If you get a chance can you test the flea market/cheapo brand L.A.Sounds circa mid 90's line of amps prefeably one of the bigger ones if you get a chance GREAT channel you and Vega are AWSOME
Those are cool, I will need them test one ☝️
And I ABSOLUTELY meant no disrespect by my other comments I love what you do .You're and Hifi's channel are by far my fave's to watch .Plus if you can you shld try and live stream I knw it's hard work but your fans love it love commenting is a blast
One thing I look for in an amp especially for a subwoofer is the damping factor which I noticed the Orion was 500vs.400 for the crossfire,. This allows better control of the subwoofer
Thats what I was looking at when I was about to buy the skar 2000 for 229 its damp factor is 200 compared to PPI black ice 7000 thats 500 I believe and for about 20 bucks more you get well over 3000 watts rms and is .5 ohm stable and at 1 ohm it did a few hundred over 2 k rms.
@ Peter Kay... same here bro 👍👍
I never overlook damping factor ratings.
2 beautiful amps
Jesus! That little Hi-Q has some excursion!
Flexin' wif 500 watts 🤣
I had a crossfire amp...did great for long periods of time
Awesome!
@6:54 made my day lmfaooo!
to make those connections more "safe/secure" put solder on the end of the cable.
Great suggestion 👌
I’m gonna say Orion over PPI back then. I love PPI but a good friend of mine from High School was a co-owner of an audio shop back in the day in Tampa Florida. He did use PPI for doors and dash but he only used Orion subs and Orion amps for lows at that time. Wow it sounded amazing!
Wow put fools on blast i love ypur content... The shit homie... Love ypur ch no one can hide brother
And that comment was edited lol...
@@loudelvis610 what.... Idgaf we bassin out here supporting the homie bid d wizzzzz
Hey BigDWiz!
Can you test some old school pioneer impp?
The cross fire amps, with the mode high current was a really nice amp in the days. Still is a nice amp.
Wow, those who were in the know could get one of these much cheaper than the Orion and hang with those guys for sure!
That's rad.
Question: I assume that you do these races/tests more than once, do they always hit the same outpput. Or does one sometimes out perform the other, but there is an average winner. I guess this question applies to all the tests thad you do on amps, if you do it more than once does the output vary?
That is more than one question.
Keep up the good work Dwiz, i like it.
No, not the exact same power but within 3-5%
Hey Big-D, I have this crossfire amp but it was called the Calibra HCCA225 in South Africa. I have it on 2 DD 212 SVC's any it's surprisingly decent. No doubt, cheater amp of note!
Excellent!
Hello people. I have a problem with my Excursion hxa - 3k amplifier. I think the bass is a little bit "flat". I don't hear a proper sub frequencies. Speaker (hifsonics Mxz12d4) rattle like crazy but not produce bass. Any solution?
Hey brother you think you can check out a Vfl 2800.1d? I have that amp and would like to know thanks. Keep it up brother!
That Crossfire in high power mode was niiiiiiiiiiiiiicceeeeee!!!!!
Yeah boi!
What constitutes a cheater amp Derek? Is that seriously underrated? That it it? Fun video as always. Lot of whoop ass in a small package. I’m guessing Class D. I can be wrong. Loads of fun as always D Wiz!
Cheater amps were rated at 4 ohm stereo loads, but usually made a lot more power into lower impedances (like 1/2 ohm stereo or 1 ohm mono). Since IASCA, dB Drag, and USAC only counted 4 ohm stereo ratings of amps at the time, you could compete in a lower power class, and actually have WAY more power!
For the new guys that complain about power levels in old school amps, they need to realize that old school subs required much less power so these amps were more than adequate. Just watch the old school builds on this channel. Most of us built systems with multiple subs running on one channel. I myself used to run 4 Redline 8’s on an amp rated at 150 bridged.
There's no school... like the old school!!!
😎👍😎
I have a mtx 1501d and it’s brother the 750. Curious as to what you think of these amps?
Good..Good👍👍👍👍👍
Hey Big D have you ever tested a JBL GTO 2400.1 ? I've been a JBL fan and was curious if those did rated power .
JBL is legit and all the ones I've tested do at least rated power, usually more
I would like to see you put MB Quart RA2000.1 Reference Series Amp through your truth test.
Test out some ct sounds amps would love to see a video on one
I’m sure I will eventually
can you please run a dyno test on a Rockford fosgate 351m mono amp my dad owns one that I am using and I'm curious what it can do
Both amps are good looking, can't go wrong with either one. Love Orion.
No slap contest here. They were too close
Hi , According to all your tests, measurements and experiments, which amplifier 1 channel (mono) can advise me in the $ 100 to feed my little subwoofer Focal P 25 DB in good conditions, with a good sound reproduction of the grave channel but also that is robust and reliable please ? Thank you very much for your help and advice ! 😉👍🏽
Omg I forgot about the damn connectors back in the day.
0awg wasn't even a a thing lol
Now a days people think they need a single aught for 400-500 watts 😂😂
Very curious about the outputs. I don't think any Crossfire of that era used MosFETs in the output stage. The larger CFA30HC didn't. How did you determine this?
I would assume he was misinformed. But you are correct Aaron.
The 'HC" amplifiers use Bipolar in the output stage. The only Crossfire amps that used FETs in the outputs were the BMF models from around 2000.
Gotta do .05 ohm dynamic test on music
Wow... thought big red would have won!!
Do you have any input on any diamond audio amps. I have a d3 1000.1 and it seems to do solid.
Great quality
Big D, do you have a list of the best amps you've ever tested in a given price range, like under $100, under $200, etc. Thanks.
It would be ever changing thinks to the price fluctuations. People get frustrated all the time when they see a video and I show an amp is say $99, then they check and it's $179. I can't control the prices
Big D can ship an amp to you for testing? It’s a Chinese made cvr amp
I think you should try the ds18 exl 1000.4. Theres just something about this amp that might be special. It seems to produce a ton of power.
Thanks for the recommendation 👌
Can you dyno razor mono amplifiers that's what's popular in my area
Hey D, I was just curious what coding your music is in your phone?
... sure hope you're not using MP3 codec...
@Dave Micolichek ok, point taken... but if you want to point that out, then what's the point of "flexing" a 6.5"...? And if the mp3 codec is losing the sub bass (below 20Hz) information, then you are losing some of the flex...
Flexx!!!
You need more gain on the amp. 🤪
🤣
How about a test for the crossfire cfa 1000d?
Them crossfire's bridged to one woofer used to hit hard
😝👍
Weren't those JBL /Crown amps built in korea ?
Love the low end flex of the little savard , are still Louisiana based?
Yessir. Subs are made overseas, but the company is located in LA and they test each sub and give you an individual spec sheet
@@wal thank you for the reply, I had some that my dad gave me yrs ago18" accordion surround, same company ..but they were made in the US and Used as subwoofers in a movie theater .
@@wal that is great info.
You & HiFi Vega got me interested in savard...
I was in line to get a few. I went to model their specs in a box building program that has the name of speaker manufacturers already built into it. When I clicked on savard, the program said China. 😳
It kinda threw me off/confused me because I'd read that savard was a USA 🇺🇸 company.
Thanks for your info. 👍👍
I had an old 225HCCA that used molex plugs and needed the bridging module.
That’s the first gen Moon & Stars. Cool amp 👌
@@wal Never got to run it bridged, never had a module. Got the amp used at the shop I worked at.
Me too but I had the whole din setup from the eq to crossover to bridging module to 2 hcca 225. It was a nice setup
when will you test Lab Gruppen FP10000Q 4 channels original ones and clone ones?
Bunna Tang I’m interested in this also
Can you please test ACOUSTIK RE5.3000D3000 WATT CALIBER SERIES
That crossfire, isn't that near the year when they were using ppi boards, or at Least some thing that came from Tempe Arizona? I know they were for a bit, bought a crossfire amp at a pawnshop shop once for 25$, hoping it was a ppi 2150 inside, it wasn't #imabigdummy
So the amp sub test was actually lower than 1ohm since it was still hooked up to the dyno?
I don't think the resistive load was active during the subwoofer test.
Hey, i was browsing on ebay and found this 5800watt 4 channel subwoofer amplifer for around 50$ please do a review on it
im going to go out on limb and just be honest and say that for that price the actual watt's would probably be around 1/3 as advertised... not to mention probably won't last either.
Big d i have a crossfire and it needs a refurbish but do not know hoo to sed it to. Would love to have it playing again
Check with theamplab.net
I had a chance to get two new hcca amps with the power wire plugs pretty sure they were 2500.1s for 99$ each they were missing the plugs
Steal of a deal!
that Orion wins with looks the red was the coolest the crossfire looks like an homage to PPI art series.😎
Can’t hide that red 👈😬