The Big Aussie Six vs American V8 Muscle - E49 Charger ONBOARD!
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- čas přidán 27. 11. 2020
- ONBOARD with Les Walmsley's 440hp 1972 E49 Hemi Six Valiant Charger. Australian Muscle Car vs American Muscle Car, angry Valiant Charger takes on a wild 67 Chevy Camaro driven by Tony Hubbard. @ Winton Motor Raceway.
The Valiant Charger was raced in Australia with a factory backed effort for 1971 and 1972, with most effort concentrated upon the series and the annual Bathurst 500 mile touring car event. Chrysler Australia employed the services of racing driver Leo Geoghegan to assist in the development of the Charger as a touring car racer. The Charger won the first race in which it was entered, the Toby Lee 100 at Oran Park, driven by Doug Chivas. In the 1972 Hardie-Ferodo 500 at Bathurst, a VH Charger R/T E49 driven by Doug Chivas placed third outright behind a Ford XY Falcon GTHO and a Holden Torana GTR XU-1
At Master of Machines, we love cars, in fact, we love anything with wheels or an engine, from American Muscle Cars to Australian Muscle Cars, Race Cars and Classic Cars of all kinds and even Barn Finds. If it's fast, powerful, restored or hidden away in hibernation then we'll cover it, and in most cases, we'll even drive them!
Thumbnail pic by: SDPICS - Auta a dopravní prostředky
My god!!! I would argue that the under bonnet shot of the screaming 6 is one of the greatest motor racing camera shots of all time....I could watch a whole race of that alone
The Charger is muscling the Camaro with ease ,, every corner ,,, every brake and also sounds way better . signed an E37 owner . Great video and thanks .
Most probably the Greatest six ever. I own one . All power when you hardly need it. So easy
Is this E49 still hobbled by the three speed box or is it allowed more ratios?
@@68404 E37 and E38 has the 3 speeds . E48 and E49 have the 4 speed ' Borg Warner ' box , hence the big #4 in the black vertical pin stripe running down the rear of the front guard .
Just love the sound of the Triples, sweet music.
Forever a MOPAR man....if the Val had just got in front he would have taken the race out, he was forever laying off to avoid going up the rear of the Camaro which was all over the track like a drunken sailor. The val had much better grip on the corners. The sounds were just heaven, music to one's ears.
Like most here I grew up on small blocks and some mates dismissed the six, until that 265 passed them that is.
The Charger was all over it in the corners and short parts of the circuit, had me on the edge of the seat urging him on. Great content Glenn. Thank you for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it. :-)
I loved that, it was like being in the car. I had the volume up to max to enjoy the Charger's bellowing howl. Music to the ears.
Assetto corsa with a VR headset is like being in the car.
Give it a go if you haven't you could probably re create this exact race.
Wow! That 6 gave that 8 a run for its money. Awesome 👍🍻
The Hemi was stalking him the entire time!!! He couldnt pull away!!
The six could not pass him either
And the Camaro couldnt pull away
@@bogiewheelman71 yes the 265CI straight 6 could not pass the 350CI V8
no denying it, he was in that Camaro's ass like a pit bull.
if the positions were swapped, its the Camaro might not keep up.
just a little more speed through every corner can do good things.
If it weren’t for the fact that these are priceless classic muscle cars and thus a bit of paint swapping was on the table, I’d reckon the E49 just might’ve had him on a few bends! Always had a soft spot for the Aussie charger
What a beautiful sound that E49 pumps out.Great video 👍
Absolutely fantastic,
1 of my biggest regret was not taking up the offer of my mate Marco in
Pt Melb who owned a genuine E49 Bathurst Edition, 1 of 11 I think for a drive down to Morrabin when he offered to me to drop it off at his mechanic there.
That was over 15 years ago & I still regret it till this day.
Soon after he sold it. His was the only Lime Light Green E 49 built as a Bathurst Edition.
Great video & the noise is hornbag stuff to listen too.
Well captured 👍
Yep. It's been beautifully restored, now lives in NSW.
@@7s29
Are you the owner of Marcos E 49 Charger?
@@louiskats5116Sorry for the late reply, no I'm not. I own a silver big tank e38. I know the bloke that owns the 49, Marco owned. His name is Darren Hill, that car is a beautiful machine, and well restored. From what I know, it doesn't see much light of day these days it's more of a trailer queen.
Thanks Glen for sharing this- loved it!. The camera in the engine bay was sensational !
What a great 6 they were. Doug Chivas and Damon Beck could possibly have won Bathurst in 72, only for a faulty oil light switch which was a typical Valiant thing. Had to settle for third. Great video.
No idea faulty oil switch 🤔
Never seen or heard of oil light switch problems, had over 20 valiants. Thought not winning bathurst was down to putting cold wheel nuts on hot studs and having to wait for them to unseize.
@@rossbrumby1957 Happy to go with your story! I only read the faulty oil light switch story in a motoring magazine some years ago that said they pitted because the oil light came on, and the hemi still had plenty of oil in it! And in the article it was reported that it was a common problem with Chrysler. Having said that, I’ve owned 4 Valiants myself over 35 years, 1 of which I still own, and like yourself, I’ve never had an issue with oil light switches. But the fuel gauge sender units, well that’s a whole other matter!
Factory backing would have been nice too, but Doug went as a privateer and came third behind the two biggest manufacturers, which isn't bad at all.
@rossbrumby1957 Yeah, he ran the whole race on the same set of tyres as they couldn't get them off.
Doug had the Charger running so lean he got half race distance before refuelling.
That pit stop cost him a possible win
Hi Glenn
Another great clip. I remember back in around 1971 in my HG Holden premier with a 308 4 speed travelling thru Melbourne.
( think it was in Spencer street in the city ) on a hot summers day. I stopped at the traffic lights. next to me was R/T charger. My window was down we both had a short drag when the lights turned green. I’ll never forget the sound of those triple Weber’s screaming next to me. This was a time before the revenue raising speed cameras.
On a other matter Mustang Motorsport are having a track day at Sandown on the 16th of January. I think the Melbourne mustang club are going to be there also.
Should be a good day
.......jim 👍👍👍
Great vidio Glen, make you feel like your there, old legs were braking with him a couple of times. Top stuff
Gimme the E49 any day! HEY CHARGER! what an awesome sound too!
Great camera work . . . especially the under hood angle.
The Camaro seemed really sketchy & would not have lasted much longer, without tiring the driver. The Charger has world-class poise, by comparison. Living in America now . . . I still believe the Aussie Charger was the greatest muscle car design of all time.
Talk about evenly matched. On a more open track Like Brainerd International Speedway in Minnesota the Camaro would have run away and hid but on that track it really came down to who made a mistake. The snarl of that 6 was awesome.
You can say evenly matched but the charger has a 265CI 6 to the Camaros 350CI V8 so not really evenly matched LOL!
@@79tazman Evenly matched on that track. On a faster more open track the Camaro's extra torque and horsepower would tip things to its favor.
Once spent a day driving an LC Torana XU-1 with triple Weber DC45OEs. Apart from the strange starting procedure - foot flat to the floor and crank it - it was one of the best days I’ve had on the roads. The induction sound of those Webers was awesome.
@@thomasb1889 debatable.. I'd near wager that 6 can run shorter lap times than the Camaro on the track in this video, with the car as was prepped.
maybe a little quicker with a slightly lower ratio rear diff swapped in.
if he'd got past him, he might have slowly run away for cornering.
@@modelnutty6503 OH, I agree but I did say a more open track and BIR is very open for about half the course length which would favor the bigger horsepower of the Camaro's V8. Sadly hot sixes never caught on here in the US although a few rugged individuals did work with them and I did get the pleasure of seeing a Mustang with the 250 ci six running three Weber two barrel side drafts toying with the V8's
1:21 Now theres a shot from my youth.
Beautiful.
Love them E49’s👍🏽
Hey Charger ✌
Under the bonnet camera was bloody unreal loved it never seen that before
The Camaro with that Arizona license tag is a long way from home.
A nice drive if a little wet.
Go Go gadget triples are the Go Go gadget.
😎🤙
As a mopar man I maybe biased here but did the charger even get out of 2nd gear?🤔 a nice close race none the less
Well the Chev had the legs but the charger had the brakes and cornering.
God that big six sounds awesome.
If they were on parallel tracks it would be interesting but thats not racing so I concede to the General, LOL.
Thanks for the Mopar Glenn.
These were V8 killers. Back in the day (1977-78) I owned a E38 and it was epic ! It wasn't as awesome as an E49 but it was VERY close considering it was a 3 speed. I could pull 65 mph from 1st gear... no joke. I won plenty at "Brickies" at Homebush. ( look it up)
Thanks for the memories..................
Ahhh...Brickies, those were the days ;-)
Some great memories there.
Love the Charger. One of the most stylish cars.
Although im a huge fan of the tickford 6 watching the old 265s makes you wonder why ford didnt develope the big 6 better hats off to the vals tjey are a mover and shaker have seen a few snippets of leo leonard from timaru with his creations hes the king of valiants in my view pretty sure he was the one who who gave allen moffat a bit of an arse kicking at levels raceway back in the day wrong track for the mighty ho but impressive cars them vals
One mistake n the six had him. He had a mad crack. Good one🤟🏻
Brilliant video Glenn, work class stuff!!
Love the way HP 265's groan. That Val would have eaten that comaro had it been geared right for that track.
Interesting to watch, its both a good and bad track because it keeps everyone from getting the maximum out of their respective cars and forces them to master the fine arts and basics of racing and hitting their apex's with perfection to get the most out of the limited aspects of their cars.
Can see the sheer power coming out of the 6 which shows why it was such an amazing engine on the 1/4 mile and could easily keep pace with the big engines and even beat them. But you can see for just a second when the V8 hits its powerband up high and begins to pull away in the 1/2 mile mark, but only a second into it has to slow down for the next corner.
The camera footage was awesome.
unbelievable what more can I say.
Pretty cool, but I like the videos in which you do a walk through of Australian muscle cars, especially the Fords of the 1970s!
Yeah,Ford definetly had the power and speed,did you know that Falcon GTHO Phase3 was the fastest factory production 4 door sedan in the world at the time
That 265 would really get an E type jag moving.
There is something just awesome about, Australian built machines. I love them.
Great race brilliant and two fantastic cars thank you very much 😮😊
I remember watching the Chargers e38 &9's on the telly, back in the day.
Tho whilst we loved GMH's local cars the most,they and Ford and Chrysler made for some great series production racing.
Doug Chivas really should have won Bathurst in '72 instead of a closing in 3rd place finish.
3 minutes behind Brock at race end,he lost 6mins in his only pitstop of the race.
A Charger really should have won at Bathurst,tho they won many race's in NZ,over several years.
Great upload, and thanks 👍😁
awesome footage..thanks
should have a charger on the charger,would have numbed the yank tank then.
It’s a shame the Pacer wasn’t given a stronger push like the Holdens and Fords at the time as they certainly could hold their own against the V8s
Wow incredible video guys!!!.
Be interesting to know the weight difference, the Charger was able to stay on him pretty easily, was being held up quite a bit in the slow speed corners
It think the SCCA missed an opportunity in the late 60s to early 70s. They could have had a companion series to Trans Am. Call it TA/75.
Possible rules
1) Any car that met the A Sedan class specs.that was the basis for the 5.0L Trans Am.
This could be any of the pony cars or compacts such as Novas, Chevy IIs, Flacon, Mavericks, Darts, Dusters, Americans or Hornets. At one time most of the pony cars were sold with inline 6s
2) Engines limited to 3.8L/232* CID. Carburation unlimited, no fuel injection, aftermarket or custom heads** allowed. Displacement app 75% of the 5.0L cars. Boring, stroking and destroking allowed. No OHC. (Sorry Pontiac). Dry sumps allowed after 1970. Roller cans and roller rockers allowed
3) Chassis weight as raced 1,136 kg/2500 lbs
4) Minor body modifications allowed (flared wheel wells, cowl induction, aero aides such as front and rear spoilers, no wings more than 101mm/4"anove deck height.
5) All cars must have factory windshiels, rear glass, badges, grills, trim, and dash panels. Factory type rear view mirrors required.
6) Four wheel disc brakes required. May be HD unit from other models.
7) Suspension may be modified but must be of basic type as stock model. Minimum ground clearance 101mm/4" front, 203mm/8" at rear wheel opening
8) Tires limited to 203mm/8" rears with 178mm/7" fronts
9) Pump gas required. 100 octane maximum allowed.
10) Full roll cage required. Drivers must open. Passenger door may be welded shut.
11) Approved fuel cell required and all A Sedan safety equipment required.
* Approximently 75% or near enough.
** Aftermarket Aluminum/Aluminium or Cast Iron heads. Custom heads can be Cross flow heads either of complete custom design or made from V-8 cross flow heads. What about this for a custom head. An extra wide head with a cam on either side of the block mounted just below the head face. Pushrods on the order of 4 inches or so. Very light and responsive valve train.
Lest anybody laugh at the idea the oldest racing series on the planet still under the same sanctioning body is run in Argentina using inline 6 cylinder engines based on Ford, Chevrolet and AMC engines.
Interestingly as a Slant Six fan and owner, I've been following some of that stuff in Argentina. They have some wild and fast six-cylinder powered machines running, including some very angry slants!
In 1960 Nascar came up with a whole series of races for 6 cylinder compacts, Chrysler did what they always did, turning it up to "11" from the jump, developing the Hyper Pack Slant 6 package. They comprehensively whipped all the Chevies and Fords at the first race at Daytona so badly they all said "To hell with it, ya'll can do it without us" and that was the end of the 6cylinder superspeedway experiment. If Mopar had held back just a little, maybe let they others finish on the same lap, it might have taken off and we might have had a horsepower war between the various American 6s, but no, they had to get all "Hold my beer" and go berserk. How cool would it have been to have 300hp factory Chevy lls, Mustangs, Rambler Rebels and angry Valiants prowling around. Would have been awesome. I bet we'd be remembering our BOSS 300 Falcons and 6 pack 265 Swingers as fondly as any dumb Nova SS
I went to school with Leo Geaghegans kids in the 60,s 70,s,, their mum would turn up on fridays to pick the kids up in E49,s,,track prepped cars,,they were loud. I saw vertually 1 make races at Warwick farm with 3/4 of the field Chargers,,6 packs,, great cars,,light years ahead of the pacers. but no match for The Camaro,s mustangs GTHO,s and XU-1,s, but in series production they won many races.
I love the Hemi 265. I had a Hemi Pacer 265, 4 speed. Miss that car, got destroyed in an accident, not my fault. Never found anotehr one I could afford.
Take 'em to Bathurst. Great stuff Glenn.
Take them to Bathurst and the Charger will show they run out of puff. You could see that on the straight there. Their Achilles heel was Conrod straight. What an underrated car they were in their time. Jeff
@@jefftheaussie2225 I remember at the time wondering why they didn't campaign a Charger 360 V8.
Should have had a camera in the Camero as well, so we can see the Charger.
The shadow of the Charger looks like a bat after its' prey. Just me.
Well I will be damned ...
Tony Hubbard .. from Seymour... I Went to school with him ... His old man was a pretty fair driver as well ....
Only 2 things could've made this video better. 1st the camera should have been bonnet mounted so we could watch the attitude of the E49 up the Camaro's ass...and 2nd after 8 minutes of hunting, the E49 Hemi catches and bags the Camaro!!. Not much leg for 4th gear the old Winton track. Hear both cars on / off, on / off the throttle like Christmas tree lights in 3rd gear. Great quality video and great race action. Thanks
Did he say 414hp for E49 Charger?? I did not think they were that much, the Camaro driver seemed to like leaving liquorice straps around the tracks, ha ha lol. AWESOME!
The E49 made just over 300hp from factory. This engine has been heavily modified within the limits of the Group NC Historic category rules.
Bloody good race
Just awesome.
Love that camaro!...
Considering it was 85 ci less it did pretty well, and not as thrashy as the one I had back in the day. They couldn't be beaten on the tight tracks in the Benson and Hedges series in NZ back then.
If the rules allow it, wonder if he had considered a cold air box and some filtration? 1% horsepower loss per 7 degree C increase in air temp. Gets very hot under the bonnet, especially with the 265 hemi with exhaust and inlet manifolds on the same side of motor. At a guess 25 degrees difference between under the bonnet and outside? That's 16hp more hp! Could have won him that race perhaps. I would hate to see the condition of the rings racing in that hot Aussie dust!
I like the bigger track better
just need track appropriate gearing and the charger would dominate , you can hear the charger is loving the rev's just not able to get it to the track , unlike the Camaro that has too much and can bearly hang on
agree, slightly lower ratio rear end and he'd got past it, on that same track.
How good was that wow
That V8 has a little more torque then the 6 but that six is stuck to him like glue
I'd love to get my hands on one of those 265 Hemi 6s. I've been messing w 383s and 440s and smallblock Mopars my whole life and now I've even started playing around with hot Slant Sixes, I think a triple sidedraft Hemi would be a gas in my old shortbed stepside. Probably have to use a bit more clutch than I do with the HotRod 225 that's in it now, lol
Did you see our Slant engine dyno episode? czcams.com/video/4zHxzHEs14k/video.html
@@GlennEverittMasterofMachines I did, Uncle Tony's Garage had a link, that's where I first heard about your channel. Great stuff
@@jonathangehman4005 , excellent. UTG is a great channel.
Is it my eyes ... the rear axle of the Camaro seems to be walking around under the rear end laterally ????
That's what I thought too. Too much oversteer
Might need a BB to get away from the great 6)) E49
BB? Big barra? 😂
I was hoping the Camaro's brakes would start to fade...haha.
Hey you should review a hg kingswood
The Charger. The best looking Aussie car and by a wide margin up against the best looking American car. I don't really care who wins. I love them both!
Anyway I noticed that Camaro has break lights and head lights the Charger I saw the front end most of the race 🏁 the lights looked like they had blue tape on them.
There pretty equal, the cu.in. of each engine must be close.
The charger was a 265, 4.3litre 6cyl. The chev was a 327, 5.4 litre V8
I think if the Camaro had moved over the Charger had the better handling and may have just put a decent gap on him.
Chargers were more popular in racing in NZ than Oz
Really Short Circuit . Reckon the Old Val would have Eaten the Chev on a slightly longer , more open Course . Was certainly Handling better .
Should have allowed them out one at a time and timed the lap.
The E49 would be quicker considering that GM product in front couldn't go around corners and the E49 had to wash off speed.
The Aussie V6 was better on the corners, the American v8 was better on the straights. Still for a v6 to be even that close in power to a v8 in an older car is insane
In line six not V6
It is an inline 6. Not a V6.
those 6 cyl. motors are basass!!
Stupid question, but the VH SixPak came out with a 3 speed manual, and it wasn't until the VJ that a 4 speed was offered, and if memory serves, the VH was E37 & E38, and VJ was E49, so in historic racing, is he running original spec or later spec?
The E49 was also a VH with factory fitted 4spd. To my knowledge the E48 was in the VJ line up, it was effectively a detuned E49 power plant. The E37 was and a detuned E38 power plant too. The E38 and E49 were the flagships for race use and homologation.
@@GlennEverittMasterofMachines you are correct, also in 1972 the E49 didn't have factory support which makes Doug Chivas 3rd place even better apart from the frozen wheel nuts which most definitely cost him a even higher place on the podium.
I have no doubts about your ability to narrate for these type of videos,but to look good and sound like you know what you are talking about you have to be correct on your narration.other than that mistake,you did ok.I only made the comment because not only did I sell these vehicles brand new,but I also personally owned 3 '6 pack' chargers,1 E38 and 2 E49s.Also I am the only person in New Zealand to have sold brand new a 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 383 Magnum R/T 6 Pack,so I consider myself qualified to comment
Sounds like you have an interesting history and sold some cool cars! What was the mistake in the narration? Can you elaborate?
It was not really important but it irked me a bit.He commented that the six pack decal indicated that it was a 6 cylinder engine where the decal was referring to the carburettors(3 double barrelled side draught,ie 6)@@GlennEverittMasterofMachines
@@rmorton3186, ok, so it was a viewer comment, not my narration... As you know, 6 pack is also referred to for the 6 Barrel combination on the US V8 variants too. On that note, have you seen the 70 AAR Cuda and 68 Dodge Charger features on our channel? I think you might enjoy them. :-)
@@rmorton3186 You sir, are correct. The 6 pack referred to the 3x2 carburetors.... ie: 3 carbs x 2 thoughts = a 6 pack
There you have it e49 would be the winner if you had the kiwi driver that couldn't be beat them all in Newzealand 😊😊
Great vid. I could watch the arse on that Camaro all day.
I couldn't. The Camaros are so simple and boring to look at. Nothing inspiring at all, just another boring 'nothing' car from Generic Motors. No comparison with the Charger, a true and timeless classic .
If it was Bathurst with longer straightaways the charger would have the Camaro easily
The Camaro had the straights by a mile. The Charger had the corners.
The Camaro was killing it in a straight line easy
yep thats why the charger was a winner on the tighter nz tracks .
If only the Charger had 4 speeds!
This one does, it’s in E49 Spec, which came with the 4spd. The earlier E38 had the 3 Spd.
@@GlennEverittMasterofMachines Well I've learned something today! I thought all the chargers were 3 speeds.
My old charger sportsman had 4 speed. The 245 donk had 3 speed.
Had one, payed a few hundred dollars for it,it was not a R/T one of the 770's, gave it to a mate,not a great family car.But it did boogie alone very fast.
@@shanesalmo1163 you could order any combination from Chrysler. I had a VJ ranger 245 single barrel with factory 4 speed.
for fuck sake put a bloody 340 in the charger and see what happens
The handling would suffer
@@MySteamChannel czcams.com/video/E6dCaKlcdjA/video.html&ab_channel=RacingVolt
Chrysler conducted tests with a E49 and a E55 mock up in secrecy late 72. The V8 couldn't keep up with the E49 and was down on speed, handling etc. Had Chrysler stayed in racing 1973 it would have been in an updated E49. The E55 V8 would have needed a lot of development for a possible 1974 debut. There you go hey the truth
What get's me is the 12 down votes ?? what the fark is wrong with these people ?/ never driven a real car like my E37 . Its carp ! ,, love both the 350 camaro , and 265 HEMI . you know where my heart and soul live ,,,
know what ya sayin , as well as the charger got a 67 impala .
@@nathanlee5789 Yep , I moved to Aussie for work , missed the Charger R/T so much I brought a BF XR6 Turbo , 6 speed manual , and if there ever was a true successor to the mighty R/T Australian Chargers ,, its the XR6 Falcon Turbo's !
@@Beanerds i thought about the OHC transplant , but with the 2 barrel 265 being just down on HP & ft/lbs to the ohc injected falcon i just wanna see how far i can go with it .
Mmmmmopar 6
Sure the Camaro takes the cake on the straights, if the Charger started in the lead she would have lost the Camaro in the corners without question! 😄
Hey good to see a race,but I thought it was lousy filming,who wants to look at the back of a car no matter who is in front,not very interesting at all
Easy fixed. You supply something better.
Yeah, I was hoping to see a Charger racing, but a nice Camaro 👍
True. Especially such a boring and uninspiring car like the Camaro. Nearly clocked him up the arse once there... But it was reasonably interesting, always hoping the Charger would pip him to the lead. But not quite enough pep.
Plenty of good racing footage on our channel from all angles, track test, racing, you name it. We wanted to try something a little different in this case.
All good mate@@GlennEverittMasterofMachines
He didn't have a hope of taking that camaro. Didn't stand a chance.
When the cars are that close a match (track suiting charger more taken into consideration) it's really only a matter of mechanical failures and driver errors that either allow a car to pass or the lead car to get away. The Chev was never going to get away, it really was up to who got the drop at the start line.
Lol
Ford 4.1 crossflow sound better, & their blocks can handle 900hp.
Yeah Nah.
Bullshit
What a crap racetrack. Same performing cars have no chance to overtake. Need longer straights and sweeping corners. Pole position matters.
It’s a procession of guttless driving
Most of these cars are rare and expensive for panels now, so these guys tend no to run into each other.
@@GlennEverittMasterofMachines if you just want to go for a drive then go on the road and leave the racetrack for people who want to take risks and not loose their license and lets face it what they do would be more fun on the back roads anyway
@@GlennEverittMasterofMachines yep if i wanted to go hard & not worry i would race a falcon .