Cardinal Burke on SSPX
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2012
- Cardinal Raymond L. Burke, prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, talked to CNS about the ongoing reconciliation talks with the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X. Read more here: bit.ly/Ntec0X
Our priests fly in once a week. Such is the spiritual martyrdom of traditional Catholics. Thanks for your charitable concern.
I just drove around a sspx priest for 22 hours straight to 3 different chapels in Florida to give mass
I was shocked how much travel these Holy men endure to give sacraments to the faithful
I grew up with novus Ordo and knew next to nothing about the tridentine Mass. Now I can't believe they changed it. To what it is now.
%100, I grew up Novus Ordo and learned about Traditional mass a while back, it's still so unbelievable that they would change it like this. I understand why my great grandmother prayed in Latin, could read Greek and Hebrew and to go away from that just doesn't sit right with me. God bless you, Gloria a Dios, todo poderoso 🙏
Exactly!
54 years old, grown up in novus ordo, discovered vetus ordo 2 years ago, now can finally give a name to that sense of unease I always felt during the novus ordo mass
Mindblowing I know!😭🙏🏻
I'm 19 years old and I agree.
If Cardinals McCarrick, Bernadine, Tobin, Cupich, Schonborn, bishop McElroy, Marcel Maciel are "in"...how can Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and SSPX be out?
Obedience?
This was the reason why the SSPX is obedient to God because they maintained the Roman Missal under the council of trent by St. Pope Pius V.
All Traditional Priest where swore an oath to the Book (The Roman Missal) states that no one will add or remove the mass (TLM) or face consequence from God.
NOT all Catholics are Roman Catholic.My Byzantine Catholic Church and the 22 other Eastern Rites all have our own Traditions.Our Divine Liturgy is centuries older than the TLM.It is sad to see the NO Mass of today's Western Rite though
@@richlopez5896 A Byzantine Catholic is a Roman Catholic. "To be Christian one must be Roman" (Pius XII, Allocution to Irish Pilgrims, October 8, 1957)
@@richlopez5896Romaness is a mark of the church, all Catholics are Roman not all Catholics are Latin (members of the sui iuris latin church)
ALL Catholics are in union with the Bishop of Rome. ALL Catholic Churches are in union with each other. NO, we are not all Roman.@@Christ_is_King-
Pope Pius XII was speaking to Irish who were members of the Roman Catholic Church. To be Catholic is to be in union with the bishop of Rome. Catholics come in all Rites. A Byzantine Catholic is a Byzantine Catholic. A Coptic Catholic is Coptic Catholic. A Maronite Catholic is Maronite Catholic, etc... Being in union with the successor of St. Peter is what makes us Catholic. The name of the Church is the Catholic Church and it is comprised of numerous Rites and Traditions.
@@sedevacante966
I miss traditionalism. The Masses and homilies today are so milk toast. No organs, hymns..taking communion in the hand by lay people..it is all so watered down.
You don't need to miss it. The TLM is offered every day in almost every diocese.
@@maxkol4380 Not true at all. My city only has it offered.....one time a month. That's it.
@@punisherthunder Keep praying. Faith moves mountains.
it gets worse by leaps and bounds.
Come to Europe and see it done properly.
One question begs to be asked: how is the SSPX not obedient to the Popes when they give licit orders? The answer is: the SSPX has never been disobedient to the Popes when they give licit orders. The problem enters when the Popes try to enforce things from the non infallible Vatican II which have already been condemned by the Church.
Truth
I know that a Council is always infallible although it's non dogmatic.
Infallibility acts also in the ordinary teaching (encyclics) and not only in the solemn documents. The pope, on the other hand, can speak in public (speechs) with his personal beliefs without using the infallibility.
This is incredible, so he has authority but not over sspx?
Isn't it impossible to be obedient to someone who has no authority over you? This entire thing comes down to archbishop Lefebvre's bull headedness.
@@drstyxquack - He has no authority to mandate his teachings that go against the dogma of the faith. We are not to follow errors by the pope. Her is not infallible in all things.
Norvos ordo mass is valid but from what I'm seeing its the form that is all messed up due to inventions to make the mass more lay friendly.I'm observing from the outside and the form is very Protestant looking.yeah you can have the mass in the vernacular but still retain some Latin.the alter rails are gone the prostrations are less the priest has been reduced to a bystander.The hyms and music suck.Bring back the Canters.
I suggest read the Scripture a bit; throughout the old testament, God was punishing Israelites for one major cardinal sin, and that is: alien worship. Second reason was disobedience to his other commandments but that one was the first. If the situation in the Church went nosediving after the changes which included the worship, then novus ordo mass cannot be pleasing to God in the slightest.
sksman I am sorry
no the documents of vatican 2 are diabolical and have done what they have intended to do its in the bocuments no my GOD is not alah the jewish faith has to convert and be baptised and accept jesus and it's the narrow way few find we go to GOD our knees so GOD is GOD of all I here you say yes but father of only thouse .who believe
@@craigfox2560 Der Novus Orda Missae war die größte Katastrophe der Kirchengeschichte. Bleiben wir der hl. Messe Pius V. treu.
Dear Catholics - About Communion - Please explain for people who are mostly Born Again Christians - mostly people from Bible Belt in America - people who already understand concepts - such as Monotheism - Belief in 1 God - Accepting Jesus Christ As Lord & Saviour ! - they already understand those things - they are trying to understand what Catholics believe about Eucharest - Holy Communion - The Blessed Sacrament - y u beleive that in changing substance - y so many Catholics believe that is so important ?
.
What do u say to people from Bible Belt who are trying to understand what that's about ?
.
Frank
God bless the sspx
Traditional Catholic wives that birth 10+ children in the SSPX!
@@joehouston2833lol
Faith is first, obedience serves the faith not the other way around.
Obedience to the one truth faith that Jesus established....even if needs some changes...everything in God's time...not ours.
Another SSPX prevarication. If you are Catholic, you do not refuse to obey the pope, like Lefebvre did. He was a heretic and a schismatic.
@@tomthx5804 Dude, you're beating a dead horse. This argument has been settled years ago.
"The devil can imitate humility but not OBEDIENCE." - St. Faustina
"He who is not with the Pope is not with God." - Sr Lucia
Obedience to the TRADITIONAL OLD CATHOLIC TEACHINGS , obedience to the RIGHT DOCTRINE, not new heresies of modernism, liberalism, new humanism ( God replaced by man).
They are soldiers of Christ one hundred percent. They are also in my town and that is good.
So are all protestants.
@@tomthx5804 Vatican II are the real protestants
SSPX are defenders of the faith. Lesbian feminists will soon be saying mass at your church not mine.
Jorge grow up
You dont defend the Catholic Faith,you only give those Fundamentalists hostile to Catholic Church more fodder to throw at it
***** CHEERS!
What a grown up statement to make. Makes me really take SSPX seriously, with comments like that.
Amen
Bp nick acres OCR AWP
We as Baptized Roman Catholic, Confirmed Roman Catholics must pray for our Pope, Bishop's and Priests. They need our prayers,I need your prayers,you need our prayers. When a member of our family is sick ,do we abandon them and wish them evil, no never.
One Holy Catholic Apostlic Church. Any split from the 4 marks of the Church is not in Union with Holy Mother Church. Christ will right his Church.
" Oh Mary conceived without sin,pray for us who have recourse to thee."
Truth never changes.
Why do SSPX bishops have to be obedient to the Pope will other bishops show willfulness and out right defiance?
I am speaking of several bishops in Europe, especially Germany.
You make a very good point.
Who says it's fine for any Bishop to be disobedient???
momthree789 many of the church fathers. and saints.. People have died and suffered and mayrterd for way less than is happening at this time.It is not just all about the mass,It is about doctrine. It is like 2 different churches.
Oh Mom why do I have to be good? He isn't!
Why? Because if they don't, they are without that chain of power and authority directly from Christ to loosed and bind, to consecrate and forgive or not, to teach from authority and lead people to God to become saints...
I pray that SSPX will one day soon reconcile with the one true Church of Christ and no longer feel they have to be in exile...i understand their feelings and likely one day in distant future Bishop Lefevre may be canonized a saint!!!
But, its that chain of authority that is all important...yes, obedience no matter what...what is going on in the church is despicable, but we can bear it knowing full well that all who have entered those sacred halls and altars on false premises to destroy what Christ has built, have damned themselves...
the Church itself is absolutely perfect in every way...all our laws, kingdoms and nations and western society have derived its guidance from the Holy Catholic Church of Christ.
Obedience is code for accepting modernism. SSPX is a massive thorn to Vatican II and must continue to flourish in beautiful vocations.
Based, God bless bud
@Based Department lol Archbishop Vigano, cardinal Burke and Pope Benedict XVI say otherwise
Our Lord calls for obedience. If you read the dairy of St. Faustina Our Lord demands obedience. Don't get me wrong. I don't mean obedience to direct objection to the preanal teachings of the church, but obedience to the gospels, traditions and teachings of the official church.
@@joefranks4235 That diary was in the Index Librorum prohibitorum and JP2 took it out. Do you want to obedience people that are killing the church?
The catechism says that you are not obligated to be “obedient”, if it’s contrary to the faith. Please brother, open your eyes.
God bless you Cardinal Burke!! Continue speaking our lords truth. Don't ever give in to the diabolical. 2000yrs of Catholic Church doctrine and now some want to change it.. The world and it's modernist corrupt and wicked society might change but our lords Truth never does.. The Holy gospel does not change with time. May our blessed mother Mary keep her beloved sons spouse, his catholic church, free from attacks from the devil.
Interesting comment. Change the outlook on the Traditional Mass? New thinking for appreciation? 1st time I heard this guy and the bells ring! The New Church has been printing New Gospels much more like Protestant Bibles and a far cry from the 1582/1609 Douay Rheims Catholic Bible! I don't like saying it but What God are you referring to in this Diabolical Processes? To Bless What I find quite extraordinary? Have you read any of the Catholic Dogmas on this stuff this guy is saying? I think not otherwise you would not make such a comment.
Novus Ordo changed the meaning of the Mass. It has changed the ceremony for the ordination of Priests. It has changed the Sacraments of Extreme Unction and Confirmation. It changed the Catechism taught to the young. SSPX sees those changes as being in direct conflict with the path of Christ. I don't see how this can be resolved.
The thing is they deny dogmas such as Papal infallibility in terms of canonizations and excommunications. John Paul II is a saint despite Assisi and the Econe Consecrations were illicit. They have a lot of good to say, particularly with the liturgy, but they need to be in full communion with Rome.
@@Patrick-vz6im they want to be. But Rome refuses to acknowledge the errors of Vatican 2. Assuming Rome is willing to do that, SSPX can end their path of disobedience. But untill Rome acknowledges the glaring hypocrisy and fake faith that Modernists attempt to pass off as Catholism, there will not be any reconciliation no matter how much each side desires it.
@@AJ-ox8xy Vatican II is a tricky subject. An Ecumenical Council cant teach error, but there were so many revolutionaries at Vatican II intending to change everything about the Church.
Agreed! Cardinal Burke should be the next pope. He actually says the Traditional Latin Mass publicly, while most diocesan bishops think that they're "God" by banning it in their modernist dioceses.
Keep in mind that neither Burke, nor Ratzinger, nor Sarah, etc. are traditionalists in the strict sense. They have a great appreciation, affinity, and respect for the TLM and those who hold to tradition. But aforementioned Cardinals straddle the theological divide in that they hold to traditionalist and Vatican 2ism simultaneously. I did not say they were bad men or lack faith. Quite the contrary. I love these men and thing any of them would be very good popes (one was) but I do not see how they reconcile the two opposing theological frameworks.
Rome has abandoned the faith. If they wish to reconcile then first they must return to the faith and leave behind the error of modernism. Meanwhile the flames of the faith will be preserved and continue to be propagated/grown by priestly societies like SSPX. Thank God for Archbishop Lefebvre.
@Based Department cringe, novus ordo goer pls go and stay go
God bless Pope Benedict XVI, God bless Cardinal Burke, God Bless Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the Bishops and priest and laity of the SSPX.
I believe the Catholic Church has lost the right to advice anyone on child related matters. Bless that one.
Lefebvre died outside the church, he was excommunicated. He thought he was God. but he was not.
@@tomthx5804 lefebvre was never excommunicated. He never commited a crime. So according to canon law all punishments afflicted upon him were null and void.
@@tomthx5804 he thought he was God? Boy you have been missinformed
@@tomthx5804excommunication ends at death and several NO bishops paid their respects at his funeral he died in good standing with the Catholic faith
cardinal burke, GOD bless you!
which god? Shiva worshiped by over 1.5 BILLION people? Maybe Sol Invictus - you know where the christian cult stole Dec 25th? Maybe Hera - you know where the christian cult stole virgin births? Cmon which imaginary deity are you referring to?
Do the SSPX believe that they SHOULD be under Francis? He is, apparently, a material heretic many times over. Isn't Francis Ipso Facto excommunicarted - long ago? Of so, how do we know? thought the whole point of SSPX was in not recognizing the authority of those occupying the Seat ion the Bishop of Rome who do not appear to be true popes. I am no authority on this and not pretending to be. I am just as confused as ever about such matters. ..
It was never flawed, the problem was people who would take poetic licence and alter certain parts of the liturgy that was not clearly laid out. Facing the people, removing alter rails, communion on the hand, removing the tabernacle, altering the prayer of consecration and so on.
I mean even the alters have been changed so much so that it is impossible to say the traditional latin mass. The Novus Ordo was never meant to stifle liturgical diversity or replace the old mass.
Cardinal Burke seems to be a very sincere man. It is also to be hoped that someday the SSPX will be reconciled with Rome. But reconciled with a Rome that has the Holy Faith. Obedience to heretical teachings is impossible. So obviously Rome will have to come back to the Faith before there can be some kind of reconciliation.
the chuch does not teach heresy there has been plenty of explaination about what V2 teaches do your research. The clarification could take the form of another council but its not neccesary.
The errors of Vatican II are couched in ambiguity so that one can take them possibly as orthodox but also as heterodox. That is the main problem. However even though the council was not to be doctinally binding as in teaching new doctrines, it was later refered to as if it was a super council and all the errors couched in ambiguity were taught was binding upon all. If the Society were to be reconciled in the eyes of the world----we are within the Church and have never left-----there could be acceptance of these novelties through some kind of false obedience. As we know now, there will be no "reconciliation" unless were are allowed to be as we are totally.
Alejandro Murguia you need to take your own advice. Read the Liturgical Time Bombs of Vatican 2. AA1025 will knock your socks off.
Marie, yes, I've read those works and many, many more. We are talking here however about obedience to the Pope. We are only bound to obedience when he speaks ex cathedra or reiterates binding teachings, like John Paul II in his teaching on women priests. The SSPX is not outside the Church, recognizes the Holy Father, Francis, but is not bound by the novelties of VII or the off the wall teachings of Francis.
Alejandro Murguia you are kidding yourself if you believe that V2 is from God
The SSPX Priests I have met and know and even the Seminarians express joy and peace and are an example of Men. The many of N.O. priests are mostly effiminate and more desiring of human respect and not of doing God's Will.
Marie TUCKER That's not true ,we have very good priests our parishes, please pray for all our Priests and Bishop's.
Marie Tucker - I agree with u 100%
👍
Same thing here, from my experience
have you met 100% of priests and bishops? you are just presuming based on your experiences.
Stay obedient to the Church....pray....and GOD will change things.
May God's will be done.
It depends on your understanding of obedience. Obedience shouldn't come at the cost of the Catholic faith. Without faith, we can't please God
Fast forward to Oct 2019 and we find the SSPX are the real Catholics and Francis is the one in Schism. WHO KNEW!
@Robert Sparkes I just started uploading Catholic videos if ya wanna check it out. God bless
"Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, . . . (concerning papal authority) Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world.", Pastor Aeternus, Vatican I
What if they teach heresy? Obedience sometimes lead to the hellfire.
czcams.com/video/WYRv9OdBXb4/video.html
@@leibstandartess3315
Jesus said so
In order to build ,his church
Regarding the pope 's authority :
Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock [see John 1:42] I will build my church, and the powers of death [i.e., gates of hell] shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” [See Isaiah 22:20 and Revelation 3:7 for a better understanding of the significance of the keys].
The Power to Bind and to Loose (Matthew 18:18)
"Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven." [Note: "Binding and loosing" are rabbinical terms which mean to teach with authority from God and require other believers to comply. This authority was given to Peter in his role as Christ's vicar first and then to the Apostles in communion with him].
Very well said, Brian. I hope it strengthens the weak to go & receive Christ's salvific True Sacraments, our only source of Salvation given by Pius V in 1570.
Traditional Catholic wives that birth 10+ children in the SSPX!
If reconciliation means yielding, it's the New Mass and Sacraments that must yield.
Exactly
"To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it, believing that between Christ our Lord, the Bridegroom, and the Church, His Bride, there is the same Spirit which governs and directs us for the salvation of our souls." -- St. Ignatius of Loyola
Unfortunately for this great Saint the Church, his Order's heroic yet servile militarism seems to have spun itself out into the polar opposite of true obedience - another reason why, after this Crisis ends, it's time for the Church to clarify the exact nature, duties and obligations of obedience during a general apostasy.
I just hope that one day we would be one! Keep praying I will do the same.
pray to Tonga - a land of christian cult members that were recently obliterated by a tsunami. Ka boom. glug glug glug. praise jebus. bwahahahahahahah
I wrote that 3 months ago and at this time I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, the more I look into things (like reading the preVII Popes) I'm totally convinced the Church in Rome isn't even remotely Catholic. A clue to this is the fact that they excommunicate traditional Catholics (Lafevre) and consider protestants IN the body of Christ, their "seperated-breathern". So the VII Church considers heretics as brothers and Catholics faithful to tradition as strangers. This should strike people
Prior Vatican II. Protestant baptism are recognized by the Church. Many documents support this.
In the sense of teaching yes Protestants is heretic, but the term heretic is for an individual, that's why only a licit baptized Catholic can commit a heresy (formal). Members of Protestant are commiting material heresy, which is not the Church believes to be a mortal sin.
For the matter of faith and morals of course Vatican II is infallible (we can see the implementation with CCC or Canon Law which defines more clearer the dogmas post Vatican II) .
Other than that Smoke of Satan may be filled up the council.
I attend Latin Mass but it is so sad today no one knows the Latin responses. Where can I learn them?
This video didn't age well. The Pontificate of Francis is bringing us right back to the days of Indult Masses. Obedience to orders that undermine your very reason for being is not obedience. Obedience is not the supreme virtue, Charity is. Charity is focused on the Salvation of Souls, to attack Sacred Liturgy and Sacred Tradition (vehicles which save souls), is to prove yourself an obstacle to be resisted. The wonderful thing now is that the real regime who always operated in the background is so emboldened that it's easier to see who and that we must resist. +Lefebvre did nothing wrong, and the Society is a legitimate form of resistance, the Archbishop was prophetic and his actions reflected that prophetic vision. Of course, I too want reconciliation, but not at the expense of the Truth that comes with Tradition, the message that has been communicated for thousands of years until about an hour ago. Rome must repent, she has lost her priorities in her institutional form and given herself over to be prostituted by secular forces which work against Christ (Masons, Communists, and Globalists).
You are correct! Francis is the Pope of the Catholic Church (Bishop of Rome and Roman rite) and his actions are problematic to say the least. But canon law states, and always has, that no member of the church is to follow error. It is what you said, Obedience, that the satanic, antichristians are counting on to destroy the Church.
Rest of Church needs to follow SSPX since it's Catholic.Novus Ordo is a Protestant Mass
⁉❓
@@PahooKatawah disagree?
Yes the Novus Ordo can be said with reverence, there is no priest who does so more than my own but it was lacking and recently had to be changed after decades because of it's deficiencies and was only done so because odf the battle. FSSP only exists because of SSPX. I think you missed everything I said in previous comments which is why there is a crisis. You don't get it, there is a disconnect and I don't mean that sarcasticaly.
Yes. And Communion rite must be given under both kinds. So Novus Ordo and TLM must be renewed back to the Apostles and other old Liturgies.
God bless him.
Little did Cardinal Burke know what was to come....what Bergoglio had in store.....for all of us faithful
"The challenge of obedience is in the whole Church". Amen. Let's stop the finger pointing (myself included).
Maybe the next pope. Oremus.
the next pope is Francis. ..God help us from this disgraceful pope francis....he is changing the tenets of the church...I dont think he is of God.
+Thérèse MacKenzie All popes are of God. Even the worst scoundrel popes never erred on infallible doctrine. That is dogma. To lose faith in this is to lose faith in God.
We've never been in times like these. His eminence has said that we are in the era of the anti-Church.
Never. The Holy Spirit has moved the Church away from traditionalists.
@@kimfleury Actually, St. Robert Bellairmine clearly teaches a Pope can fall into heresy and still retain his Papal Office.
We want to obey yes, but not blind obedience.
We must remember that in the end days even the holy father's seat will be taken over
"Although it clearly follows from the circumstances that the Pope can err at times, and command things which must not be done, that we are not to be simply obedient to him in all things, that does not show that he must not be obeyed by all when his commands are good."- Juan Cardinal De Torquemada
I love Cardinal Burke but I have to respectfully disagree. If the Holy Father says to you and all priests you are to remove the Blessed VirginMary & place the Parchamama in the church? Will you give holy communion to Nancy Pelosi, if this pope said every holy Mass “ you can do your own thing” such as using a guitar” to bless the people? would you do all or one of the above? Of would you “obey God instead of Man’s errors, including this pope? So while V2 council insisted on the “open the window for fresh air” (which in reality let the “smoke of Satan in!) Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre never deviated from “everything traditional”, Mass of the ages for centuries upon centuries. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre & the SSPX prays deeply for the conversion of pope but will not follow his errors! I’m with the SSPX!
2012!
With Bergoglio, much damage has been done.
Thank you Dennis.
Amen!!!
Canon 58: "Rescripts of any sort can be entrusted to successors of the executor in that office or dignity, unless he had been selected because of personal skills." I'm not sure how you think that translates into excommunication for anyone.
On March 10, 2009, concerning his remission of the excommunication of the four bishops of the Society of St. Pius X, Pope Benedict XVI said :
My favorite Cardinal, Cardinal Burke. Amen!❤
THERE SHOULDNT BE ANY DISLIKES IN THIS VIDEO.
Your profile picture - taken from a false apparition site in Bosnia and Herzegovina, deserves reconsideration.
Yes there should
Cardinal Burke is a moron. AN idiot of the first order. He know f all about anything.
Almeus Dei is convinced in their delusions.
St. Augustine puts it (Ad Galatas 2.14), " St Peter himself gave the example to those who govern so that if sometimes they stray from the right way, they will not reject a correction as unworthy even if it comes from their subjects.”
I was quoting the 1917 code. In Latin: "Rescripta quaelibet exsecutioni mandari possunt etiam ab exsecutoris successore in dignitate vel officio, nisi fuerit electa industria personae." It does not say what you think it says. Perhaps you were thinking of some other canon.
What a great idea!
keep standing up for the traditional Catholic Faith! zI cant obey a heretic imposter! dont start Cardinal! u know the truth! Joy Corcoran
The SSPX priests will be the ones to guide Holy Mother Church out of the darkness she finds herself in. And I thank God for that.
Fiat voluntas tua.
Why was Francis ordination invalid?
He's being very... Reserved.
Things certainly have changed for the worse in the two years since this was posted
Look at things now!!! If we only knew back then!
I feel like the Catholic Church is collapsing. It makes me think that maybe the original Church was another apostolic one:(
how can we be reconciled with the Novus Ordo.
Do you really want to be? The Novus Ordo is now little more than a glorified Protestant sect.
The belief in the Real Presence has almost completely disappeared and once that is gone
Catholicism is gone. Next move by Mr. Bergoglio will be to canonise Mr. Martin Luther.
Excuse me Michael Voris the SSPX did not.leave the catholic church.the vatican ll started a new church
Teresa Niumata I believe that. When I converted to Catholicism I felt a bit disappointed because it was not what I thought it was. I just thought, "times have changed." Now that I know about the traditional sects I'm like, "THIS is Catholic."
Being disobedient to the Roman pontiff isn't traditional at all. I like the Tridentine mass as well but in needs to be celebrated in full communion with the Vatican.
Is cardinal burke in line to be pope?
Is that a possibility?
I have to assume that when he speaks of those "others" who are called to obedience that he is speaking of the so called charismatic "Catholics"......
This hasn't aged well.
I'm as much against freemasons as I am against schismatics who refuse to submit to the Successor of St. Peter.
Can you proved some links to the subject?
What about Saint Atanasius. He is the great saint and doctor of the Church, but he was excommunicated couple of times for resisting the pope.
4.Since LG 16 refers to potential, implicit cases saved and not explicitly known non Catholics in the present times, it does not contradict Ad Gentes 7 which states all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation?
continued
1.Where does Vatican Council II state that we know non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc? How can these cases be visible to us?
2. When Vatican Council II does not state that we know anyone saved in the present times with a good conscience (Lumen Gentium 16) how can LG 16 be an exception to the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX?
continued
Amen
🥺
Novus Ordo is the true mass!
@@phatcrayonz troll ..troll on
@Based Department shit lol ...
I agree with you to a point. All's I have found is the true Catholic faith no longer resides in Rome. It looks like we.... we are living through the great apostasy prophesied in scripture. Through these times, now maybe more than ever, we must search out our salvation in fear and trembling. Matthew 24:22 "And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened." Save your soul carefully, and those God has placed on your path
You have totally summed it up. The sspx will become defunct if it joines the church. Yet without the church it can only continue to split up...protestant style.
I understand that no one speaks Aramaic anymore. Through the graces and
gifts of God we have had Latin preserved for He told us that His Word would
be preserved for all time. What better vessel to preserve it in than a
language that no longer develops organically like modern ones do, a
language where the meaning will NEVER change, where the context will
forever be the same; something modern language cannot achieve. The Tridentine should remain. The New, abolished.
God bless Cardinal Burke
January 7, 2013
Doctrinally the SSPX is in agreement with Vatican Council II without the false premise: if they don’t genuflect before the Chief Rabbi is another issue
It cannot approve Medjugorje until the messages finish. No apparition can be approved whist it is ongoing. (I happen to believe it), but it wont be approved while it is still going.
To place yourself in judgment of the See of Rome is the heart of Protestantism.
Ges you are wrong.my ancestors were also barred from hearing Tridentine Mass in Gaelic Scotland.,and always subject to the Pope and Vatican,as her special daughter .
I was brought up in the Tridentine Mass,and prefer it to the revised Mass,but the Mass is the Mass wheather it be in Latin or English.
SSPX are just a shower of schismatics who go against Papal authority and Vatican 11. and the ecumenical movement .I dont want to hate other Faiths like SSPX do.Scotland was mostly anti Catholic now due to Vatican 11 and Ecumenical Movement there is less of it now in my country.The SSPX seem to forget ,Jesus said,Love your neighbour,A new commandment i bring unto you .My neighbours are ,Protestants,Muslims etc,they do me no harm,so why should i hate them because SSPX say so, and go against Jesus teaching,when there is no need to,i am not at war with them.SSPX should realise that the Church will NEVER fail ,and The Pope has the keys of heaven handed to him by Jesus,not to SSPX.,and has withstood the storms ,seen empires rise and fall.and SSPX are no big problem,its SSPX souls who are in danger,for not obeying the Pope.All the SSPX are doing is give those Fundamentalists hostile to Catholic Church more fodder to throw at it.
SSPX come back to the Faith of Your Fathers living still,in spite of dungeon fire and sword.The Pope is,and always will be till time ends.
God Bless Pope Francis 1,Long may he reign
The Tridentine Rite is very different than the Novus Ordo. I am a Catholic in good standing and do not support the SSPX. You are very wrong about the two Masses that you refer to. The Tridentine Mass is the most venerable rite in the Catholic Church. The Novus Ordo is valid, but pales in comparison. Research.
The novus ordo is such a mess I would be ashamed to Attend it. All faiths are equal Ya right lol
I enjoy praying the latin Holy Rosary with cardinal Burke thank you cardinal.
Nuncio to the United States Eugenio Pacelli was right in 1939 when he said "The American Catholic nose is weak." I would say numb. And blind and deaf.
Pray for Cardinal Burke. He needs a few pre Vatican ii refresher catechism classes. Pray Cardinal Burke seeks guidance from Archbishop Vigano.
@Based Department you have fallen into papalism, not Catholicism. We were warned by our Lady in many apparitions that even the Pope will mislead, teach and promote errors in the last days and that, when he does such a thing, we are not to follow him. Vatican ii is the counterfeit church erected by Rome in these last days. We were warned. Our Lady doesn't lie to us. Read up on Our Lady of Good Success. In this apparition, our Lady tells us that tere is one, lone prelate who opposes the wicked council that is convened in the mid twentieth century, and this prelate SAVES THE PRIESTHOOD and rejects this council. Vatican ii has officially written heresies into it and constitutes rupture and departure from the true Catholic Faith.
@Based Department also, Abp. Lefebvre was questioning the declarations of Vatican ii throughout the first four sessions of this wicked council because of the heresies being discussed, but was reassured by the hierarchy that these were just harmless discussions. However, by the last session, he saw the direction that this wicked council was going towards and he didn't sign on the last session and, also, recanted his signatures on all the previous sessions
@Based Department Popes can and have taught error. Our Catholic history is littered with such Popes. All of the Vatican ii Popes are Popes who fall into this category. The job of the Pope is to safeguard with his life all that has been handed down without innovation; for Popes are to be protectors of Holy Tradition-- not owners of Tradition to do with it as they please. They're not to be innovators who create new, novel things and ideas. We're in the last days that we've been warned about where Rome and the Pope apostasize from the true Faith and erect a false, new, novel, and counterfeit Faith.
VIVA CRISTO REY!
@Based Department you're brainwashed with liberalism and modernism, my friend. I will pray for your deliverance this very day. God bless
@Based Department Vatican ii is liberalism and liberalism is a sin. Your excuse making is cringe. I can't believe people can be shown facts, yet, deny these facts so that they don't have to leave the false religions that they're comfy within.
No compromise with modernist rome
Think of it this way. In the fourth century, the Eucharist in Rome was celebrated in Greek. Greek had antiquity, was more theologically precise than Latin, and in Rome, few people spoke Greek, so it was comparatively "changeless." However, they valued people understanding the Liturgy, so adopted the Vernacular (Latin). Why is that instance of the vernacular correct?
There is no right and wrong as simple as that. Nonetheless Greek was also vernacular. Jesus spoke Aramaic. Ecclesiastical Language of Roman Church is Latin
The Letter does not explicitly say that Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy.One has to imply it - and just about every one is doing just this!
The Letter refers to 'the dogma'. The text of the dogma does not mention any exceptions.It agrees with Fr.Leonard Feeney's traditional position. He was excommunicated for disobedience.
What Rome says, it is. I respect the sharp desire for Tradition, but many followers of SSPX behave like teenager fanboys trying to "find ways around" to justify a weird position.
He should become pope
who is the one that says we have 14 sacrament???? I know about 7 only.
Judging from media reports, the pope is referring to the Jewish Left version of Vatican Council II which the SSPX must accept and which contains the false premise of being able to see the dead saved in invincible ignorance etc.
You don’t have to obey a drunk father.
Reconciliation is rally very simple, SSPX must accept the authority of the Successor of Peter, and the authority exercised by him in union with the episcopal college during the Second Vatican Council. Their arrogant pride are the real obstacles.
You don't know what you are talking about either, you sound like parrots, go and seek to learn.
they do accept the Pope they are not sedevacntist even if some of the people who attend are
The S.S.P.X. accept the Popes from the time of John XXIII on, they do not accept the full of Vatican II neither do I .They do not say the N.O,neither do I. The N.O. was an on the spot, manufactured rite composed by a Freemason Annabel Bugini. I also believe that paulVI was very sick and I have always believed shananigans were going on in the Vatican for the last 50 years, if truth be told.Which will probably never come out I also believe that the Holy Ghost was very much in the guiding of Archbishop M Lefebvre, and Bishop Antonio de' Castro Mayer, in the ordaining of the four bishop.
sharon stockard Indeed, I agree with your assessment. Although, there were many other Priests I am aware of that were on the same Road as Marcel. But many of them were killed, released from the orders, and the like of such pressured ejections! It amazes me for example that the Superior General Fellay of the SSPX is so off track today, especially of what Lefebvre stood for simply because Rome is not going to change (La Salette, 1846 or Quito, 1609). He, in my opinion seems to lack the Piety to see beyond himself and the reason for the split from the New Church. Indeed, Bugini was identical in this sense to Fellay. Bugini brought in the rite but he is far from being the genius behind it. He was just the pass through of someone else's program. Check into King Henry the VI (King Charles's son, 15th Century). None of these guys are smart, witty, have piety or are devoted and loyal enough to see beyond themselves to see what is coming! The truth is always coming. We as they are in for some big surprises that are going on now and some that will arrive very soon. As the predictions or prophesies have indicated, we the laity have to prepare ourselves for it.
Since 2015, the SSPX Superior General has exercised the legitimate ministry to make judgments in Canonical cases over his clerics. Since 2017, SSPX priests have been receiving the faculty to preside at the marriages of their followers. Suspended priests cannot receive such faculties, if the SSPX priests can, then they are not suspended, they are in some kind of "Canonical limbo".
Is obedience absolute when someone wants to destroy the Church?
NO!
Both masses have valid .
The Cardinal states that SSPX has the Catholic Mass and Faith.
The SSPX has NO standing in the Church, they are in the wrong (not Rome). Reconciliation will only happen when the SSPX faces their grave errors.
I'm not a member of the SSPX. There are more grave errors committed by Novus Ordo priests daily that anything the SSPX has ever done. You should feel ashamed by your comments.
Christopher Altomonte Not a chance. Both say they don't feel like listening to the Holy Father, but when the SSPX do it, they bear false witness. For example, the current SSPX head called Pope Francis a modernist, which he isn't. Most think the Vatican made a mistake making this person or that person a saint, even though a Doctor of the Church said to even think that is committing a mortal sin.
You will get no apologies or shame out of me on this matter.
Kakure Possenti I agree, though not so forcefully. I understand why the SSPX made the decision they did, but they were desperately needed here in the Church to restore tradition and orthodoxy. They are now a pariah. I hate the conciliar "reforms" of the past 50 years. but the SSPX went too far. And, its a real tragedy that so many traditionalists have left the Church or have been excommunicated since the council, while heretics, like Cardinal Kasper, are still running amuck with an apparent blessing from Rome, herself. Its pure madness.
Patrick John Consider this: the OT prophets called people out for not being faithful to the covenant but did they suggest at any point that they should start a new group? No…not one said that.
I said I understand why they left. I didn't say they were right in doing so.
7. The SSPX should be free to accept Vatican Council II in accord with the Syllabus of Errors, the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (845, 846, 1257)?-Lionel Andrades
"Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers -- even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty -- do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church."
Precious Raymond Cardinal Burke has pranced around in silk and lace and Latin for long enough, he's done enough harm, It is time the Holy Father, the Pope, the Roman Pontiff, Successor of Peter and Vicar of Christ dispensed with his 'services'.
what a charitable comment, you flower power liberals are always dripping in charity towards all manner of people who intentionally act against Our Lord and His Church...but have none for those who uphold 2,000 years of Church teaching and the words of Our Lord himself. Your comments may mask themselves as humility but they are in fact a haughty Protestant mutation of true Catholic faith...Liturgy and presentation matter. Latin, facing God with the congregation, beautiful music are there to honour God, not the one participating. Since the 60s, the Church has virtually disappeared from our culture thanks to petty, small minded, uncultured, unChrist-like comments and attitudes such as yours, concerned more with your insecurity over what others in society will think of you if you side with 2,000 years of your ancestors in honouring the Universal unchanging language of the Church and a mass that is not open to abuses such as clown masses. The only 'precious' ones are the intolerant 'liberals' (read: heretics) who cannot stand to realise that they have had their way with the Church in the past 50 years and it has wreaked nothing but apostasy, peadophelia in the priesthood and societal disaster.
Hey! AD, Do you know anything about what you just commented on? boy are you stupid. enough said.
Love your comment, God bless you.
'Services'? What utter nonsense.
It is the patristic scholars who know this information, two of whom I see regularly, Dr. Coomaraswamy died in 2006. The patristic record teaches Catholics what is the means of salvation.
From several sources... I can't put a link in here. "As The Latin Mass magazine reports in its Winter 2005 issue, during the meeting with Bishop Fellay of SSPX last August, Pope Benedict referred to the “excommunicated” Archbishop Lefebvre as “the venerable Monsignor Lefebvre” and “a true man of the Church universal.”
That canon at Nicea was a matter of church discipline and unity, it was not a de fide canon.