Dealer Had it for 6 MONTHS! Crazy Wrangler - Part 3
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- It's a snowy, slushy morning.
Right away on a cold start, the Jeep is going NUTS!!
Let's hook up the PicoScope and work fast to pinpoint this network issue before it fixes itself again.
Do we have ENOUGH EVIDENCE to give the customer a detailed estimate for repair?
YOU DECIDE!
THINK TOOL PROS:
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IVAN'S PICO WAVEFORMS:
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Ivan
Ivan is like the only guy I know of that when more squirrelly shit arises, he thinks it’s “so cool”. Lol. Love this dude.
Nice job, Ivan. Patient, thorough diagnostic process. Really paid off for the owner. Would be nice if owner was as attentive to basics (broken windshield, no muffler, exposed electrically connectors,.....) as he is to overall cosmetics. Likely he'll be back....
"It's a Jeep thing", I will never understand, Lol. Bald tires, poor articulation, not a trail machine or rock crawler but....here's your rubber ducky. I love your diagnostics and mental flow charts. What sets you apart is that you are not limited by the printed book since it is like a generic fault tree you have a more focused data based approach.
lucky the window does not blow out,,,illegal in ohio cops would have it towed
I'm pretty sure by now that the manufacturer version of "off-road" means the soft dirt at the shoulder of the road.
I love that splice connector for the modules on the can network... That really should be in all cars!
Something smart that Chrysler / fiat / Stellantis did :)
Actually, something smart that Mercedes did which is even more amazing.
There is a jeep club up here where I live. They all have these big shiny clean jeeps that are lifted with the big tires an winches. They never leave the blacktop.
Ivan is the man ! Him & Eric O are two of the best. 😊
The inconsistent problems are as much as an aggravation for customers at times and it's great you can recreate the issue. When it was extremely cold one day, colder than ever before (and this was Wisconsin), my Lexus IS250 revved very high. Thankfully not in gear. I turned off the car after a few seconds and back on and it never happened again.
This is an interesting series, thanks.
"I think I'm hurting nature with this lack of muffler" floors it! 🤣
Part 5? Noooooo. 10 minutes was too short for Sunday morning. I'm glad Mustie had a nice long one ready. But, 10 minutes is better than no minutes.
Mustie always has long drawn out videos ,I often wonder how he makes any money wrenching on all that old stuff. Still enjoy his channel gives my brain a rest after watching Ivan and Eric O high level diags.
Great video Ivan! I need to develop your level of patience and enthusiasm. Your like, this isn’t talking now and this module isn’t communicating now, how cool. Me, after two days on this thing I’d be pissed and the neighbors would know it and my neighbors are as far away from me as yours are you. In all seriousness, great video, I have learned a ton watching your videos and I’ve been doing this for 48 years. Who says old dogs can’t learn new tricks. Thank you for these videos and sharing your knowledge.
Great video, my favorite part was the picture of the German Sheperd on the windshield. (Dog lover and rescuer here)
I'd be interested to run some bi-directional controls on the abs module to see if it acts up. Curious if the abs was activated for a wheel lock-up condition during your road test. I also like the idea of removing the abs module and puttig it in the freezer. At that point you could even bench test it instead of re-installing it.
Amazes me Ivan how you can look at a scope pattern and tell there's a fault straight away, I'm studying it and struggling to see it, great job as always
The CAN bus is a differential pair to help with noise rejection and signal integrity throughout many modules. This is a digital signal, so the idle state (digital 0) is about 2.5 volts for BOTH wires. During communication, a digital 1 signal will cause CAN LOW to change from 2.5v to 1.5v and the same time CAN HIGH will change 2.5v to 3.5v. It’s important the High increases the same amount that the Low decreases (about 1v). If you look during the data corruption packet, the CAN High is hovering around 5.5 volts (ignore the occasional high spikes). CAN Low is also doing something weird as it looks like it’s going from 1.5v to 4v (it’s hard to see with CAN High drawn over it). Also there is an abnormal pulsing pattern, not typical of the other packets. I would guess this could be due to the internal ABS microcontroller glitching or resetting. Hope this helps explain the waveforms…
Will you take apart the old module, see if there is a broken / crusty connection somewhere..?
That's why Jeep always talks about their recovery hooks; you need them to pull them out
LMAO...you know i had a 2013 Tacoma TRD SPORT...should have gotten the of road...but anyway that thing never left me anywhere stranded in the bush...like my remote camp 🏕 in Northern Ontario. The TWO big faults with it were those shitty drum brakes and the crappy antenna. The rest was pretty well bullet proof. I had a JEEP rental last week while my Tundra got repaired. The JEEP had 40 000 kms on the clock and the ABS lite was lit.
Man, you're killing me with the suspense 🙂 I still have a gut feeling with the wiring, but your call is correct. Let's see what the new ABS module brings us.
That thing would be more capable (not to mention reliable) without the modifications. Thanks Ivan
Firefighter driving a dressed up Jeep = chick magnet!!!
crazy stuff Ivan that back East crud really gets everything.
Hi from Ireland 🇮🇪
Even if you fix it, it's not going to stay fixed until it has some wheel wells and underbody weather protection
I love your channel and work, I gotta say it was painful to listen to that exhaust drone . Broken windshield , bald tires,no fender Liners but hey he’s got a lift kit and is advertising for nitto,hopefully nitto sees this and demands that they remove there name from the sides of that rolling (when it runs) billboard for what not to do to a Jeep.I certainly do not understand this Jeep thing thank god. I’m sure there will be more videos soon at 45 k it’s almost due for an engine or at least one cylinder head , an oil cooler assembly if you can find one. I remember when Jeep had a strong reliable 4.0 inline 6… those days are looong gone..
That’s confidence with your diagnosis!! Driving on a small trail with ice & snow. Not exactly an easy place for a tow truck rescue. Part 1 (or 2) the Jeep left you stranded on a test drive (for a couple minutes anyway). I hope there is some bonus material after waiting for the conclusion...😭 Great job, Ivan!!
I can't help but believe AUTO ENGINEERS WATCH YOU. They take your findings and hope to incorporate into future designs.
Certainly the extensive computer network is 'young' compared to pistons and valves so there's still abundant lessons-learned just waiting to be discovered. And know that car designers are ever-more destined to developing more robust self-diagnosing cars.
Not only do us entertainment-starved enjoy watching you but there's hardcorp mechanics, both diy and pro, and there's auto designers who are onboard. You are a critical input to today's car repair enthusiasts.
THANK YOU for tackling the newest and frequently most mysterious of car problems. This is clearly rewarding to you when a mysterious finding is exciting to you but would be frustrating to me Love you brother!
Thank you for the motivation, Tom! It is a very rewarding occupation for sure :)
Friend of mine designs wiring harnesses. He calls me to fix his cars.
No winching or high lift jacking? What kind of Jeep trail is this?
its the new woke trail. it identifies as a dirt road.but it wants all the accolades of indy
that's why it's called Jeep Trail. lol
Agree on the exhaust system...obnoxious sound. Probably a solder joint of some sort cracked inside the ABS. Rather common problem with them in all makes.
Cracked solder joints inside modules. A Jeep thing for many models.
Shouldn't be on something that new imo
@@rkan2 temperature changes can have impacts on solder joints. People that do electronic repairs find it on new products. It happens. Early modules were opened up and solder joints repaired and modules worked good as new.
Wow, you work on snow, I never saw a snow in my life and I am 40.
Mbs moshitoa south Africa
Come visit Pennsylvania! 😀
The garbage packets seen on the scope seem to indicate that one of the chips within the ABS module has gone bad once exposed to those cold thermal conditions. Powering on the ABS module allows for it to warm up, and it starts working again when it reaches its happy new operating temperature threshold. The fault should be repeatable by freezing the module or trying again with a cold start the next morning.
I like how Ivan gets mad when the car is fixed... before he fixed it😂
Take the old ABS module apart and check the circuit board for cracked solder joints and slight halos around the pins from the connector where they are soldered to the board. The long length of the connector pins puts stress on the joints from temperature expansion/contraction and create stress halos in the solder joints until they eventually crack. (The cold start failure)
I’ve been successful on older modules but this ‘18 looks like it gets some abuse. For inspection I use a microscope now but a cheap jewelers loop works just fine.
Curious cold start situation. Based on the comments it looks like you're on the right track. Thanks Ivan!
looking forward to parts 4-10.
just waiting for this video you are a great person lots of love from India ❣️🇮🇳
Wow, it's a jeep thing lol. Haha. Abs module going bad. Hope it's the right call. Dang part 4? You're keeping us in suspenseful wait!!!
I can't imagine listening to that awful exhaust note, sounds like a damn garbage disposal. Jeep people are so special.
Part 4? You're killing me, Smalls.
That thing is too fancy. I like my 1997 bone stock Cherokee.
Who the hell would think that exhaust sounds good like that? Owner must have rocks in their head.
16650 chips...a bazillion of them around and every semiconductor MFG makes them. Yea, they can go bad. I think the chip costs about $1 but is no doubt integrated into a very expensive module which, likely is on backorder.
I really need to see the end of this one. The anticipation is killing me🤣
Part 4?? You're killin me, lol!!!
Loved the test drive! Looked like a lot of fun. Thanks for including the waveforms in your comments. What I saw as a bunch of squiggly lines you saw as the problem. So you've given us/me a chance to go back and hopefully get a little smarter. I for one really appreciate that. Thanks for Sharing!
Nice job. Hope u can get a new module from FCA. Few month ago I was in the need for one for a dodge minivan, the dealer guy couldn't get me one. Because ship thing all module with FCA were back order. Long story short. The costumer was using a app in his phone to know the speed. Till a week ago finally I got a new one for him.
On to part 4.
Excellent content, learn something on almost every video. Thank you! Subscribed.
Wrap the connectors with waterproof silicone tape.
Ivan has nerves of steel. Great job Ivan.
The retired medical device engineer in me is disappointed that Chrysler is putting interior grade connectors in an exterior environment.
A Fiat innovation?
Good way of putting it. Plastics just do not pass the longevity tests nor do they pass for number of open/close cycles. More of a connect and forget idea.
What a passion for work great nockledge the good use for tools and information take you along way don forget your coffe.thanks IVan
part 4 if there is no core charge i would love to see a video of you taking apart the abs module to see what the fault was
I believe the electronic side of it does not come apart but it does come apart from the hydraulics, I may be wrong though but some people do sell them separate.
I’m hoping for some Bonus material!!
@@scientist100 They need to be cut open. I have sent a few out for repair in the past on the old Bosch units.
Great job so far but disconnecting the ABS from the star connector doesn't necessarily condemn the module Ivan. Need to isolate the harness from the module. Next time it acts up disconnect the harness at the module (leave ABS plugged in at the star connector). If the bus issue is still present your harness is suspect. That splash shield is protecting the wiring loom from debris impact as well. I've learned a lot from watching your videos, hoping to give back. Keep up the great work sir!
Good thought! Now explain to me what kind of harness fault would result in the waveform that I showed :)
All the cool kids watch _Ivan's Huge Clues!_
Some ABS TEST run when you first start up and or drive…
A CAN bus seems to be a very weak link In automotive communications. No error checking and no redundancy.
Good morning Ivan
Nice work Ivan this is a tough one. I suspect this Jeep has been flooded one too many times.
Another win... Awesome!!
Between you and a few others I've picked up a lot about the usefulness of a scope. Probably not ready to go it on my own. Well doesn't matter anyways since I don't have a scope. LOL!!! :( The most important part is watching you use it, I'm not just sitting there and saying this is all greek to me any more.
Will be interesting to see the final result.
Oh oh, this is a several multipart Jeep!!
Is it possible for the pump to bring the module down ? When you mentioned the cold start with the momentary bus crash made me think about the pump
If you say there's a part 4 and there isn't a part for yet this is very disappointing. I was looking forward to finding some bad connections at the ABS module that can be just fixed with a little cleaning. No parts fix????
I love those fox shocks. That would be a premium up grade.
Made for cruising Mall's. No off road for jeeps.
Dealerships just are not equipped and don't have technicians to do this kind of work. I used to work for a garage that the main tech (owner) was an electrical guru (like you) and he would get work from all the local dealers any time they needed this level of electrical work. I can rebuild engines and work on almost any car mechanically but I never touch electrical, just never my thing and I don't have the ability.
Cold solder joint or bad cap inside the ABS module?
Nice video!!!! I enjoy your content. I have a question. Which Pico scope do you use? And Which do you recommend for a diy person? And what lead set up and accessories for the scope would a diy person need? Thanks
Uh oh... Continued part 5 coming up? Seriously, thanks for the content.
Ivan part 3 not 2 LoL..!!!
Keep up da gr8 vidz i luv dem learning a lot from Dem..
Ivan, this is why I will never sell my 54 Willys CJ3B!!
Looking forward to the next video Ivan. Cheers!
Wow. What a good diagnosis other than recommending he buy a good 2001 GMC 4x4 half ton instead.
Looks to have relatively low mileage, (some of which is the wheels spinning and the vehicle stationary). It would be interesting to examine the ABS module (including its destruction) to find out why, at a low temperature it fails intermittently.. Repeated use of the scope proves invaluable, and I wonder if Chrysler would support a free replacement.. (probably a wild dream). At component level, in many electronic circuits, the use of electrolytic capacitors is standard, in which the electrolyte is a 'gel' which conducts, but as the temperature goes below freezing, it also freezes, and conducts much less, lowering the stated (capacitance) value, causing the effects you diagnosed. A sad fact is that, at manufacture, for just a dollar (or two) more, capacitors can be fitted to the modules to operate reliably in low temperatures..
More likely just a cracked solder joint(s.)
Wow, not the first time I've seen wrong capacitors causing major disruptions. Mostly for being cheap!
@@chiluco2000 You've diagnosed it with wrong capacitors? On what evidence do you base that? Most likely caps used in this module are SMD and not subject to electrolyte leaks or deterioration at this early point in its life. Lead free solder is the most common reason for broken solder joints. This is only a theory which would need to be substantiated by evidence to determine if it's the cause or not.
@@johnaclark1 I do agree about the soldering, where lead-free is preferred, but requires a higher temperature for a strong, conducting joint. Of the semiconductors the module contains, (IC's, transistors, thyristors) most have their temperature specifications issued firstly for operation eg. 10°F to 200°F, and secondly for storage, say, -20°F to 300°F...
Epic test drive diagnosis!
If he is going to run with out the fender liners he should put electrical grease on every connector he can get at and seal them back up.
Great diagnosis, but this Jeep needs to be put to bed, and the owner should never be allowed to own another Jeep...ever!!! I really hope you billed a poop load of hours. That would learn'em!!!!
I think the cracked windshield must be part of the problem !
It's a NY car and is a month overdue for inspection. He needs to get that fixed or he'll fail. Unless, he knows a guy who knows a guy who'll still slap a sticker on it for an extra $20.
60 ohms on the CAN?
Termination resister in the ABS Module. Short is in or near...?
Is there a specific model number for the thinktool that you have? Seems to work well for you. Thanks. Great videos!!
What I'll never understand is why CAN is not a differential current loop bus like Ethernet. It would make it far more resistant to random signal level issues.
Cheaper, lighter wiring and much less expensive tranceivers (ICs)
Ethernet would be hopeless in a vehicle environment. CAN Bus is far more robust.
To be fair, Single Pair Ethernet (xBase-T1) does exist, developed specifically for automotive applications first and industrial and IoT ones later. It's still fairly new overall, the standard for 10Base-T1L (802.3cg) for example was only passed in late 2019 although faster but shorter-range versions already existed a few years before.
Morning Sir
Fix the window as well.
Who can sleep nights knowing a cracked windscreen is out there.
Think tool needs to update "grey" meaning not equipped to unable to communicate.
With these cold start module problems, I wonder if popping the module into the freezer for an hour, then reinstalling it quickly would recreate the problem? I've seen the reverse done with a heat gun successfully.
Easier to use canned air upside down and freeze it in ten seconds
Imagine the tech at the dealer trying to book 8 hours of diagnostic time 😅 this is insanity.
Thats why it sat there for 6 months. Customer probably refused to pay, because it "should be" warranty. Us tech's dont do work for free.
Yeah 3 videos at the dealer you better find it in .9 or you lost time.
@@challenger70r GM pays .3 diag time, any more time spent the tech donates to the cause. Friggin ridiculous.
@@scrappy7571 Actually they charged him like $700...STEALERSHIP bro!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics At my store that would be only 3.5 hours labor. Dealers have way too much overhead to charge any less. The whole dealer business model is sh*t. 3.5 hours of pulling my hair out, while the tech next to me has flushes and brake pads lined up to make a 15 hour pay day.
How do you end up charging for intermittent issues like this?
I mean, how much time do you deem OK to charge for just trying to recreate the fault?
Cheers Ivan, love your work.
Its the job nobody else was able to fix and they had to bring it a long distance to get it fixed to a specialized person. I would expect expensive. He should charge for every hour put into it in my opinion.
Bro dozer is about right
Now I see why the one comment said something about it having nitto tires...
There is a local Jeep dealership that could not solve electrical issues on a newJeep that appear soon after the purchase and still under warranty. The dealership gave up after weeks of trying to figure it out and handed keys to a new Jeep to the car owner.
This is why you don't buy a fiat jeep
I personally feel if you are willing to sacrifice a small amount of off road ability, the Tacoma is way more reliable.
The customer voided all warranty
@@christophervanzetta I was not implying the Jeep Ivan was working on was under warranty. I was saying Jeep have a reputation of electrical issues. I have owned Grand Cherokee. The one I have now is an 09 Overland with a Hemi and the first tool I bought for it was a good scanner.
@@jerrygundrum1 It's too bad AMC isn't still alive building the Jeeps
Maybe the no muffler will give the owner a headache.
Im wondering if this was not a prior flood vehicle?
Hey Ivan what laptop are you using for the pico? Thank you
Should have bought a Land Rover Ivan 🤭 at least it was an easy fix haha 🇷🇺
It needs a windshield. 🤣
Windshield crack was a PA inspection fail when I lived there 42 years ago.
Insurance covers those yet folks seem to think a windshield claim is going to make their insurance go up ?
Ivan, great work on this Jeep as usual. Now the customer needs to show it the same love.
How are you liking that ThinkCar scan tool, looks good from here? Need to sell my Modie Edge and get one I think?
Can someone please explain why you would run any vehicle without fender liners?
It helps if you are an idiot
I’m guessing the larger tires interfered with the fender liners……..plus form over function.🤔
In the salt and snow ❄️ zone, that is a bad idea.
@@mikefoehr235 Just on regular road with ANY debree it is a problem lol
@@jeffleach2668 Yeah, those oversized tires rub severely into the fender’s. Just keep it stock and they work alright
I ran into a few Jeeps years ago that had intermittant cold start problems after sitting in below freezing temperatures, we finally found the problem by putting the PCM in a freezer overnight and the Jeep would not start until the PCM warmed up. The second one was easy to diagnose. Could your abs module have a similar problem?
Could be humidity or cold causing the issue.
@@mph5896 Nope, a bad/cracked solder joint loosing connection due to thermal expansion...
@@jovangrbic97 thats your hypothesis. Not fact since I don't believe you tested the module or even saw it.
Could easily just be a temp sensitive part.
@@mph5896 Well, yeah, but neither did Ivan, and probably no one ever will... Cracked solder joints are like 95% of complex circuit board failures.
...and a windshield.
Wow, Can’t so much blame this one on Fiat, leaning more toward owner input, or lack thereof! Interesting!
A module that fails in 4 years or 40k miles is definitely Chrysler Fiat fault lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Safety item...is it covered by Jeeps warranty ?
Fiat module failure, extremely rare but possible. 😃
Fiat module failure, extremely rare but possible. 😃
@@brianw8963 Fiat has always been junk.
3.20.22. 1st ………Part 4‼️