Dealer Had it for 6 MONTHS! Crazy Wrangler - Part 1
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- čas přidán 17. 03. 2022
- Mmmm another Jeep!
Customer drove his 2018 Jeep Wrangler JL from NYC 5 hours away...with NO MUFFLER!
He said that the Jeep has been having major intermittent electrical issues for almost a year, and the dealer had it in the shop for over 6 MONTHS without results!
Now it's in our hands. Let's start from scratch and gather some data.
The dash is a CHRISTMAS TREE with lots of Communication and ABS codes.
Intermittently it will completely FREAK OUT and leave you stranded...no shift, no electric assist, no 4WD...NUTS!
Looks like there is more than one issue, so get out the popcorn and enjoy the ride :)
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Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Removing splash shield. That's a Darwin award if I ever saw it.
Yes especially the fenders in the wheel wells they are the most important ones
Sadly, that is a pretty common thing for Jeep people to do. They seem to have an innate desire to Just Empty Every Pocket.
they just fell off, they were Dorman's.
Having worked at dealerships, the last thing they want to do is get involved with a vehicle that has been bastardized by the owner with a lot of aftermarket junk. Installation is usually sub par at best. For instance, putting a body lift on without installing fender liners. These are usually the people that think everything is covered by warranty and are unwilling to pay diagnostic time. The best advice would be if you don't know how to properly diagnose and repair this type of problem, then leave the truck alone, or have the upgrades performed by a qualified shop that specializes in that type of work. Or find a qualified local independent shop so you don't have to drive hundreds of miles to get things fixed. Network comm. problems are not that difficult once you learn about them, but can be very time consuming. If you have to rely on someone else to fix them it can get very expensive.
yep there's you problem lady. It's the Nut behind the Wheel! :D
yep, anything modified at all and nearly NOBODY will touch it, you'll have to find a buddy or independent person.
People don't want to pay for diag because to most "mechanics", diag means they plug in a code scanner and charge you 200 bucks. Then when they don't fix it, they want you to pay for the parts and labor that didn't fix the car.
For most shops, diagnosis is just another opportunity to scam the customer.
Just for fun, take it to auto zone and have them read those codeS just to see what they recommend.
Missing fender liner ... I have no pity for the fool.
That's so you can see the oil cooler leak right away
Exactly! Keep the salt spray OFF of your electrical connections!
@@edthompsom9368 Clear plastic fender liners! Get me a patent attorney LOL
@@The_Sword3 Don't say that too loud or brodozer owners will be putting lights beside the engine shining out through the clear covers blinding everyone.
Not a very Mr. T like response.
I live in Denver, and the mountains are literally in my backyard. I see a ton of stuff like this. People just don't seem to understand that modern vehicles, especially Jeeps can't be rock crawlers or trail runners. These things will strand you in the worst possible place. If you want a good mountain vehicle, get an old CJ5 or 7. Even an old Grand Cherokee, just take a spare crank sensor and the tools to replace it.
Old Toyota land cruiser. 💪✌️💕🙏
Scotty would have skipped straight to the last step where the car is traded for a 4Runner.
I'm thinking that those weatherpak connectors are doing their job and the problem lies elsewhere. Bring on part 2 Ivan!
It’s gotta be a bad ground somewhere erratic systems failing like that is usually a ground issue
weatherpack's lol. more like pack in the problems. they fail all too often, from crimping issues and lack of dielectric grease upon assembly(boy them bean counters are saving money)
Thanks for the shout out and thanks again for taking this one on!! 👏
If pulling back the boot unplugging and replugging a connector induced problems I wouldn't look at the pins I'd look at the harness connected to those pins. When you suspect water intrusion at a connector, in addition to directly soaking the connector, you ought to soak the harness above and below the connector.
When water did not induce the problem but mechanical handling did, do more wiggle testing and visual inspection of the harness, then continuity, signal, and voltage checks through the connector on the affected conductors.
It’s like Eric O said,” one module tells on the other modules” it’ll be interesting to see which one/s keep dropping out. I’m sure you’ll find the little bugger Ivan. I have faith in ya
#1 : mudding and heavy trailin with a modern 4X4 is asking for trouble .
#2 : its an FCA
Coworker has a 2020 Ram 3.6. Less than 2,000 miles has an intermittent no-start condition. Dealer keeps for 6 months, can’t fix. Coworker initiates lemon-law buy-back. Corporate sends a tech from Detroit, finds the problem is a bad chassis ground, fixes truck. Ram offers coworker extended warranty (100,000 mile?) to drop lemon law. Coworker drops lemon law and puts a huge Ranchhand grill guard on his 2WD V6 Ram, drives off into the sunset. The end
I am in Deer country, lots of 2wd vehicles have grill guards here.
@@wayneessar7489
I understand the need/desire for a grill guard. It should be noted that in the event of a collision with another vehicle that grill guard will affect the timing of the airbag unless it is built with the guard in mind. In effect, you will meet the airbag just as it explodes close to the wheel. The chance of encountering a deer is more likely and often than another vehicle just the latter will/may have severe consequences.
My prediction: The TPMS module got wet/damaged and intermittently corrupts the CAN C network, leading to chaos. Usually TPMS modules are placed near the wheel wells, and this guy's car has no fender liners...
Yea I question the no fenders where are they why are they off it protects everything from getting wet from the wheels kicking up water and mud snow and ice
👍
It's almost as if the fender wells are supposed to be there for a reason? Who knew
I had a similar problem with my 2019 GMC Yukon. They ended up replacing the ECM. Only 34,000 miles on it at the time.
Holy mother I think 🤔 that is seriously an all time record number of codes
What a great break from pulling oil pan changing oil pump on caddy Escalate! Thanks Ivan!
Can't wait for part 10
I love the diagnostic approach. I use it on everything. Got a 96 S10 Blazer running yesterday for a guy who had it towed to his house after it conked out and wouldn't crank. He tore the dash apart, replaced the ignition switch, all kinds of things. I told him 6 months ago it's the fusible link junction block on the fender. Sho nuff, one of the wires had completely oxidized and after jumping it, the thing fired right up. Always check for power before replacing parts
Nice! A good one! I really like these can diags.
Quite an interesting diagnosis Ivan, looking forward to the 2nd part. Cheers!
I had a no start jeep like this a year ago towed to dealer good work Ivan looking forward two part two
I had a JEEP WRANGLER as a rental. I have heard guys whining how uncomfortable a Tacoma is...well a JEEP is way worse. It it so cramped and the seat doesn't go back far enough for me. It was God awful. I wish you well sir in this repair. When things are no LONGER stock, we'll problems are a coming.
Weird that the dealer had it for that long without doing anything. I guess they just didn't want to dedicate that kind of skill set to this truck, if they even have people there that can truly troubleshoot issues like that.. Thanks, Ivan.
They didn't have a Flowchart that covered all of the issues!
Their hands are tied without a Flowchart and they don't think outside of the box!
I wonder what they charged him for "storing" it for 6 months?!
@@dans_Learning_Curve wow yeah that is a good point.
Without knowing both sides of the story, we will never know. Working at a dealer, I can tell you, if it's not under warranty, and the customer does not want to pay, it can sit outside till it's a pile of rust. Lot's of things will void the warranty, but customers will try to fight it. Everyday is a chit show at the dealer.
@@scrappy7571 Exactly, there's two sides to every story... sometimes three, the correct story.
@@inothome Yea, definitely 3. Customers will lie to your face to get out of paying. I pretty much don't believe anything a customer has to say.
Cool video.... Like watching a murder mystery in reverse! Can't wait for part 2.
Had a similar issue with a Ford Fusion! Abs module took a poop and caused the rf wheel speed sensor to throw a mechanical code, swapped sensors, didn’t go away, load tested the wires they tested good, swapped pins in the abs module to rf and lf wheel speed sensors swapped, still followed the rf sensor. It did some crazy stuff when it started to fault, but the network was always intact! Very cool find to see it on a different vehicle
I knew this man knew his stuff as soon as he opened up behind the glovebox. Can't wait to see the conclusion!
What's needed is for the customer to switch to a 1965 Jeep CJ.
Had this same issue on a 12 Hyundai Elantra brake light EPS was going nuts traction light, was a broken wire on the abs wheel speed sensor grounding out. Looking forward to part 2
I had the xmas tree lights come and go on my Toyota Highlander. I found the green crusties hidden in a connector front left by the battery..soldered a jump wire to bypass the connector..Fixed!
How in hell anyone can keep vehicle for 6 months, not to get it done? Cant understand.
I love your videos, thank you very much
These off road vehicles will have to run all their cables in EMT to help prevent failures like this one. Ivan, you do great work in these videos, thank you.
I remember Matt from Matt's off road recovery commenting about buying a new jeep product, he basically said that he would have to fill out all the computerized system and start from scratch, if you've ever seen his channel and the absolute brutal punishment he puts his vehicles through something like this sissy jeep would never stand the strain, he goes through deep mud snow rivers you name it, these kind of jeeps are made for and sorry if I'm sounding misogynistic young girls who want to either attract guys or other girls depending, I see more and more girls driving jeeps than guys, in a mainly urban setting they're not at all practical they're mainly for show and probably zero will ever be used off road.
Funny, but yup, my 19 yr-old daughter thinks a Jeep is the coolest. I’ve talked her into a Honda Civic, and she’s happy. Whew!
It’s a jeep thing 🤣
Just
Empty
Every
Pocket
Pretty much sums it up
Wow, so possessioned jeep!! So many fincky problems!! I wonder if the wires bad connection? But I'll see what part 2 brings!! Awesome video!
Just wait until you work on your first new Bronco! It will be a treat! Sophisticated and complicated electronics on an off-road vehicle (the kind of vehicle that will spend much of it's life outside cell service) is the very epitome of STUPID!
Check out Sarah - n- Tuned's newest 21 Bronco video where she installs new springs and struts to achieve a small lift: czcams.com/video/IGL4pxlTC0E/video.html You'll see the wheel well of the Ford actually has a metal backing/shield behind the plastic instead of being essentially wide open like this Jeep. I'm sure it does expose SOME things but it's far from Jeep's design.
Wow, this one would challenge the best of us. Well, you anyway. I'd be done already. But yeah, I can't wait to see what you find. This will be very interesting.
Man, this is crazy! Definitely NOT a vehicle I'd want in a survival situation! When everything fails, I'll still have my '74 Yamaha RD350 with dual points & carburetors. Wires only for lights, charging, and ignition - that's it!
I've got some catching up to do! I'll have to watch the other 2 vids tomorrow night. Looks like this will be an interesting one for sure! 😁If anyone is going to fix it, I have no doubt it'll be you, Ivan!
👍
Super skills master 💪💪💪💯
There is a cheap cable work around for SGM. Fca 12+8 universal adapter cable.
Maybe use something more similar to hitting puddles. Get a garden hose and really hit the connectors. Spray bottle won't create enough pressure.
When I was troubleshooting locomotive electrical problems, we used the garden pressure pump bottles, exactly for the reason you stated.
A couple bottles of Silicone Conformal Coating works wonders for sealing up modules and connections that are exposed to the elements. MG Chemicals 422C is what I use.
Here's me thinking it's just BMW that have all these problems, great job Ivan can't wait for part 2,nice wiring diagrams from Chrysler
No, Dodge/ Jeep are well known for wiring problems. I've had issues with every single one that I've ever owned. My sister's dodge caravan had to get an entirely new fuse panel (tipm) because it had melted some of the wires together and even melted the connectors under the box, pretty crazy. I had a jeep grand cherokee that would flicker lights inside the cab randomly.. and I had issues with the wire connectors on the cam and crank shaft sensors. I figured it all out in the end, but it came down to thin breaking wires or bad/ leaking connectors. Green crusties everywhere; and I live in Oklahoma, we don't have rust issues here at all-- so nothing was rusted or even particularly wet-- it's just typical dodge wire gremlins. I'll never buy another one. Toyota and Honda (Lexus and Acura) are the only way to go (maybe mazda or subaru)--- Other than a Ford truck.
Chrysler: we make them look cool...but that's where it ends..you are on your own....Call Ivan😎🇨🇦
Seeing a red tree, I'd check the CAN, first thing, looking for 120ohms. Would that seem advantageous? My first thought...is it possible that water intrusion at a circuit for the ABS module? (CAN termination)
hi ivan my vw uses the abs to work out for tpms love you videos
garden hose on shower spray, is a good makeshift puddle. lol
Ivan modifications in a car like that is a nightmare wires aut of place loose connection corrosion and others factor .anyhow you are the right person for this job
Are you still getting 3 wheel sensors show working with the scope? What do the sensors and their wiring from the ABS module to the sensors look like? Broken or corroded wiring or sensors? Comm wiring and connectors must be clean and dry. Trying to think what could be bad.
Disconnect the ABS connectors and go for a drive if you can. What besides sensor codes do you have? Possible water intrusion into ABS module? HTH
Those 3d wiring harness diagrams are amazing. Didn't know service info got that detailed. Is that All data?
Being used off road I would suspect water got into the wiring somewhere on that Jeep. It didn’t have any wheel well liners to help with water intrusion?
Great job as usual. PHAD Quality work is hard to find.
Will there be a part 2, soon? Really curious about what's going on. I have a 2018 jl unlimited sport s. I added the usual fare of parts, but absolutely kept the fender liners. I laugh when I see vented fender liners. Defeats the whole purpose. Can't wait to see what you find. Great video!
Yeah I get tense when there's a part two. It's ok, though. I always come back. And there's plenty of old episodes to take my mind off the wait.
I recently had a volvo with a swapped plug in the rear bumper and that was pulling down lin 16 causing the battery sensor communication fault. Took a minute but I found it lol. It had a message on the dash saying charging system problem... they replaced both batteries and the battery sensor. I checked everything and chased it down to that and I'll be dammed if that wasn't the issue
Ivan, please consider buying and testing a (DSO138 or DSO150)/ DIY oscilloscope, they are super cheap and I think you could put them to the test better than anyone; just to demonstrate the viability of a super cheap budget scope for us poor guys out here. lol ... They are cheap, like $5 to $30; but you can set triggers' and they seem fairly useful; the leads that come with it even have a built in 10x attenuation switch. You might even like them in your kit, (maybe). It would make for a great video for sure.
Ivan..there is so much RED..I thought you must have your Foxelli in red mode.. lol😁
Next week on Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, we have a 2018 Jeep with the 3.6 V6. Customer complaint, misfire, P0300.
Curious to see what you find with the TPMS. I work at a Chrysler dealer and have seen a new JL with no comm with TPMS, that module I believe is above a rear crossmember, found a broken wire at the connector. If I remember correctly that connector is just four wires, power ground and CAN lines.
Same here. We had a grand Cherokee with these exact symptoms last week
Friend of mine has a shop. He does a lot of jeeps. Few yrs back one the same no fender liners. And guess what. All kinds of electrical issues…. Owner thought it looked cooler without them. But after the repair bill… he was advised to get new liners and put them back
First time I've ever heard someone say Dodgy Chrysler Jeep did something 'nice' while not being sarcastic! 🤣
I wonder if it has nitto tires?
Jeeps should never be driven through puddles or over bumps.
No fender liners, interesting. I see it had a right rear abs sensor code then gained two more when you scanned later. I think it's a connection/terminal tightness issue or a ground problem. It might be a good idea to look into the right rear abs sensor issue, maybe that would lead you in a direction anyways. Either that or inspect grounds relative to those modules effected.
👍
I won’t have any module issues with my 1978 international scout
None in my 93 landcruiser either if you go off road you need simple old school technology easily diagnoses and fixed and tolerates some water ingression.
Grasias
known repeatable is aa lift on a jeep .
the harness can/will get a break in the molly @ the body harness
Right where it curve to the driver side
He should have some custom inner fender liners made to keep the elements off of everything like the wiring and such.
Why did your scanner not work when you left your cell phone at the house? Does the ThinkTool need wifi to be able to communicate with the vehicle through the dongle?
As your buddy Eric O says , " It's a Jeep thing" . :)
Ivan is the thinktool pro similar to the thinkdiag in as much it always requires an active internet connection.
regards Joe
No, the ThinkTool is a stand-alone scanner :)
Dealerships are for oil changes and warranty parts replacement. The best they can do is scan for codes. Ain't no time to perform the diagnostic procedure. Anything that isn't the fastest way to get it done is unacceptable.
Go for TPMS MODULE ؛ it's known to fail in Chrysler product cause of water intrusion
It has to be a common problem within a wiring loom or connector to cause so much trouble.
I believe it started when the customer removed the Inner wheel fenders so anything like a rock could've bounced up & damaged the wiring harness or water has entered one of the connectors & caused some grief.
If it's the same as the fault prone Mitsubishi cars it could even be corrosion in the ABS Speed sensor connectors as they can have that problem,my sister-in-law was given a 2009 Model Mitsubishi Lancer by her brother which has an ABS system fault,I cleared the P1773 code which was stored in the PCM but there's still codes which are stored in the ABS module which my scan tool cannot read.
I need to find a hand held scanner which will read the ABS module in that car since Mitsubishi expects the customer to bring their car to them since they have the MUT-III scanning software & laptop adaptor to scan for ABS brake system codes.
I was under the impression that a CAN OBD2 scanner should be able to scan everything in a CAN OBD2 car but it doesn't,I couldn't even auto scan the Lancer & my OBD2 scanner can't read the Lancers ABS module,I had to manually enter the vehicles details into my scanner so it would read the cars PCMs stored codes.
I know both my dads & my Holden Commodores use the old ALDL (assembly Line diagnostic Link) language for the Bosch ABS module,pump motor & valve control which is about 20 years old in both cars & it has never given us any problems.
My dad has had an SRS airbag code stored in the airbag module due to a bad battery setting the code & I had to get Holden clear mine with GMs TECH2 scanner/programmer when I accidentally turned on the ignition switch when I had the SRS airbag/horn pad removed from the steering wheel,the airbag warning light is hard set when it is illuminated in my car,it needs to be cleared with a compatible SRS airbag scan tool.
I accidentally put a ball joint removal tool through the wheel hub bearing which damaged the left hand front side wheel a few years ago which set an ABS speed sensor fault so it wasn't the fault of the ABS system in the Holden Commodore.
The Mitsubishi Lancer & outlander just seems to be a heap of garbage 🗑️ which Mitsubishi doesn't really want to fix yet since Holden has closed down they're selling Mitsubishi cars where the Holdens which were a really good car were getting sold & they're expecting me to buy that crap !
More money than sense....
I see these cars online fording streams with water up the top of the wheels. Theses late model 4x4s of all brands are basically 4 wheel drive computers. Their electrical connectors are not designed for submersion. Old school primarily mechanical 4x4s are the way to go for serious off road use.. A little water goes a long way.
Did you look at the back of the plug you unplugged on the opposite plug
I vote for bad ground.
I can see why nobody want to try to fix this thing. I bet Ivan is the only one. good luck
Saw on Casey LaDelle's off-road recovery channel of a 2019 Toyota Tacoma no-start out in the freezing woods and it turned out to be a burned out brake light bulb. Owner had to hike to cell phone coverage, then meet Casey in the pitch black to go to the car. Towed it to the Toyota dealer (owner's work) and the next morning they changed the bulb and fixed the truck. Brake switch went through bulb. Stick with old school for off road vehicles.
Wow I really have a hard time believing that a burned out bulb could cause a no start 😅
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That was the follow up report in the comments. The owner had thought it was a dead key, but they tried the spare at his home before packing the car off to the dealer (owner's work). He did have a mid-level HF code reader and it reported a brake switch fault.
Casey's did a Tesla tow where the owner had lost their key, were using the smart phone app to start their car but out in the woods got out of cell service so couldn't start their Tesla. Towed the car a mile back down to the highway and cell coverage and off the owner and Tesla went on their way.
Many of these new cars seem to be like the alien ship in Independence Day, they only work within range of the mother ship.
Ground. right front somewhere?
My limited understanding of the Autoauth setup is you can only register “Chrysler approved “ scan tools, ie no China Amazon stuff and Chrysler monitors all communication between you the tech and the vehicle via the internet so in order to use the scan tool on the applicable vehicles, you must be connected to the Internet at all times. Is your experience different? Have they changed the set up or was I misinformed from the beginning?
Yup
Crazy:)
How’s the engine even running with so many communication issues
Basically, only the engine works. Good strategy to hunt for the culprit(s). Excellent info from Chrysler, but too bad design for an off-road vehicle - any module can bring the whole thing down. As they are not going to reduce the number of modules, at the very least, there should be independent buses, to limit fault repercussions. Curious to know what Part 2 brings us :-)
Unless a bmw or a benz , atleast it still runs and drives with that Xmas tree!! Lol
Independent buses would probably add a ton of extra wiring, and expense.
It's a weak design no matter how you look at it. There should be a built in way to isolate shorts and opens on the bus automatically to keep the system from total failure in the case of one wire being screwed up.
Redundancy helps, if it works. In the fiber optic business you use a redundancy loop in case of loop failure but you also run the fiber in a different location thus making sure the second loop doesn't get taken out with the first loop.
@@consaka1 too much money for them to invest to do it that way I’m sure they could do a million things to make it better but it’s all about the $$$$$$$
How’s the engine work really with all these computers offline or not communicating lol
Wow this is a great case study. Chrysler electrical issues. Say it isn't so. LOL !
Wait for the end. If the lack of liners caused the issues, don't blame Chrysler. It's not the 1960s anymore when there was relatively few wires. If you want all the goodies (safety and toys) it's all wired these days.
You didn't want to see if you could recreate the condition. You wanted to drive around the "brodozer"😅
Looks like you are having as much fun as I am at work. They had me pull new network cable new network switch. Problem still exists. I asked for theory of operation and wiring diagram so I could look at their communication data on a scope. You think I had a third eye on forehead the way they looked at me.
Here is what happens when you tell people you have made an off-road vehicle for on-road use. You either end up with a rough riding off-road vehicle, or in this case, an off-road vehicle designed for on-road use that can't barely handle off-road use. I think Jeeps should have stayed off road. When AMC and Willey's owned jeep, they did a damn good job of it even though they were rough riding road legal.
Hey Ivan. I'm in CNY. Who's the tech you know in Ithaca? Looking for a skilled diagnostic technician like yourself but closer to home.
I was wondering if you knew,, How many chips are used in a new Ford F150? I cannot find an answer thought you might know
If this was a BMW or Mercedes with all those codes. it would not have started. Props to Jeep for making it just freak out and not go into full cardiac arrest mode.
I don't know, it still left Ivan stranded on a test drive. Sure the engine ran but wouldn't go in gear (or do much else sounds like), that's not much better IMO.
Haha. Im still rockin the 2001 tacoma 2wd 5 spd. A little rusty but more than trusty! I cant believe the issues these “modern” vehicles have. Ill be keeping my taco for a lil bit or sell for $10,500. Lol. No low ballers i know what i got!
The taco 🌮 I haven’t heard that for a while, love it
Craigslist be like MINT rust is just dirt on the fenders. Grandpa driven all hwy miles never seen the city
I had a hard mental decision to dump my 01 tundra 5sp... 300k miles, still had the stock clutch! But oh my GOD was it rusty.
Ha my Prius prime was quoted $ 9700 more than what I paid two years ago! From carmax
I got a 2005 Honda Odyssey with 259,000 miles on it still Kickin has the typical transmission stutter once in a while and a check engine light that pops up but other than that she’s a top always starts always runs everything works the navigation screen is black but besides that the full down screen works and it’s weird because they got the navigation screen but at the same time they still got a typical radio underneath it so I can still see what I’m doing and my volume in my stations in my satellite radio all underneath I don’t need the big screen for that so either way it runs like a top and I use it for my landscape business
I hate newer vehicles. You can't pop the hood without 6 computers and a server in Siberia being involved.
Why are all the covers removed they are there for a reason
1:22 "...just doing a visual inspection on this thing...." Nope. I would have declined this one. The owner "modified it" AKA ruining it, so the owner can fix it.
Run, don't walk away from this one !
Take it to scotty kilmer way to go jeep
Another cliff hanger, you bastard lol
Please elaborate on that scanner losing communication when there was no internet.
This is the second vehicle with a multiway canbus connector to be dragged down by local faults. Why oh why can't the makers arrange for the system to automatically isolate bad peripherals and throw a code to say so. That way the vehicle drives and even the stupid dealers can work out where to look. To design a system that can disable vital systems because of an unimportant fault is surely the height of foolishness.
Cya, I guess. Where can I gain some info on your idea? I would love to learn more.
Wow! Those are some communication codes, if anybody can figure this one out it's going to be Ivan.