Printer VS Printer - Creality K1 faces off against the Bambu X1C at HIGH SPEED - Who Wins?
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2023
- If you're a fan of Bambu Printers, or a fan of Creality printers, this is a must-see. In the Green... corner we have the Bambu X1C weighing in at 1200US, and in the Blue corner we have the Creality K1, coming in well under weight at 600US, does the underdog have any chance at all. Who will come out on top in this David and Goliath ultimate match?
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I've been wanting to pit these printers against each other for a long time, but with different slicers and different printers, there were going to be too many variables. I run with Orca slicer on both printers now, and that is what changed everything for me. It opened the door to do tests like this, one slicer, two printers. Printer vs Printer, and we're running them at the highest speeds we're able to get to at this point. If this video has enough likes, I can buy some upgrades and do a follow up video getting these printers to their absolute max speeds, or maybe even beyond.
If you've noticed a little different video format, I'm working hard to get more and better content out on a regular basis, I'm trying out a few different things to see which work the best. Hopefully you found the video entertaining and informative, I'll be sure to start to add some humor when I get a little more comfortable with the camera and my shiny head.
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Have a K1 and I have rooted and calibrated it. Prints pretty darn Well I must say but there's still the VFA's showing that they're known for! I just bought an X1C with AMS so I'll be doing some comparisons myself!! Great video!!
Got a K1 Max and I'm really happy with it.
Switched over to Klipper and added some more colling on the motors and it prints extremely fast.
Hi can you help tò do this?
K1 Max is blowing my mind. I've had it for 2 days now, blown through 1k of filament. It's amazing.
Is this your first printer or have you moved ahead from something else? They're quite a bit faster than even one generation of printer back, I'm happy with mine now that I'm running with Orca, Creality print just wasn't cutting... or 'slicing' it for me. Which slicer are you using with it?
@@NeedItMakeIt I started with Tevo Tornado 5 years ago. Then I bought a Elegoo Jupiter 6k and now I bought a K1 Max
Bed slinger and then you jumped to resin. I still haven't gone down that path, the price of resin is one reason, but they seem to be getting better by the day and I think if i just keep waiting, they'll continue to get even better. Are you using the resin printer much still? Does the K1 max auto-calibrate for input shaping and for filament diameter? It has a nice large build volume.
@@NeedItMakeIt I use resin more than anything else. I started model / figure painting and am enjoying the hobby. Yes, the K1 is pretty much automatic. No fussing around with it. Hit print it prints, that's why I wanted it. I'm tired of fiddling with 3d printers and want them to just print.
@crazokc That brings me back to my teen years. I would buy models just to paint them, I didn't play any of the games at that point, just enjoyed seeing my friends play. That's probably one of the best uses for resin these days. I'd love to get my hands on a Resin printer like yours. I'd probably do models like you, and also do lost-resin castings as well. Did you get the kit to upgrade the extruder and added camera for your K1?
Nice video. Whats the process for tweaking your K1 max? I juat got one and its really good. But it seems with some extra work it gets better. Im not sure where to start.
If you have a max, and it auto-calibrates, I think that it should. There isn't much to do on that side. You can still manually calibrate for slightly better results, but in my exp. it's not worth the time, since you'd have to do it for each new filament you use. The tuning relates more to the slicer, and those settings you would adjust would be specific to the types of part you'd want to print and the material you're printing with. Is there a particular area of the print you want to see an improvement on, there are lots of areas to make adjustments and I think it could help to narrow it down a little.
Is this a good first 3D printer or should I start with another model?
I have both the K1 and the X1CC. My K1 was one of the early release and has been nothing but problems and is still not working even after I received all the updates from Creality. Updates are painful on the K1 and flawless and painless on the X1. When the K1 worked, for a very short time, I was very impressed with it. What sways it for me is the AMS multi color unit. Price I think not apples to apples as you said I think the P1P or P1S is a better comparison. Loved your video and i subscribed
Those are excellent points. The history on this is not very favorable for Creality, it seems as though they tried to do what they always do and release a printer which needs work, and rely on the community to solve the problems. Unfortunately for them, Bambu was working on solving all of the problems and had an excellent plan to release a printer for a few price-points. Those printers also have the ability to upgrade to use the AMS system. They had a very good strategy here and it looks like it blindsided Creality. A little story on this. I have been trying to work with Creality for years on getting a CoreXY style printer, it's been 2 years, I nearly had one and then that fell through. Years passed and we worked on it again, but then it was delayed again, that was for the K1, they delayed it because they didn't want to give me a K1 printer which wasn't working correctly knowing that I would be making videos showing the problems. So I waited and then I received this one. But it still wasn't quite good enough.. at least compared to the X1C. But then finally they opened it up, and it's at a point where I'm happy to use it, it's not perfect, but it's pretty close, and for the price it's a good deal I think.
The first batches though there were lots of problems, and I guess you weren't able to get your sorted out. I think they had an upgrade kit for the extruder and hotend, did you ever end up with any of those?
I did get the upgrade it but haven’t installed it yet. I had to do a major unplugging of the hot end one time and when I was taking the hot end off one of the connectors got pulled off the board and I’ve been trying to get something worked out with creality even at my cost if they didn’t want to cover it under warranty but they have not been very helpful. I need to get it working because the bambu is swamped and I can’t afford another one
@@3Dprint4you Oh, that's not so great. If you get a chance, please send me a photo. I maybe be able to include these types of things into future videos on the subject to help people and also apply a bit of pressure to the manuf. to do the right thing.
@@NeedItMakeIt I will definitely send you some pictures of both whatever problems with the K1 but also for the fuzzy skin. I noticed that the fuzzy definitely looks way better on larger prints but will send you a picture of both big and small "snowmen" with the fuzzy. I really like it and absolutely no layer lines to be seen.
@@3Dprint4you Cool thanks. I have a few uses for Fuzzy skin coming up and I'd really like to see what it looks like on your prints. I'm hoping in a few years we can have printers which do not print in FDM, instead they'll use a completely novel approach which gives us a homogenous part when we're finished, no layer lines, all one solid part just like injection molding. Resin is close to this I suppose, so maybe it will be more like resin, but I'm thinking that there are other approaches which have not been explored yet.
For the price I think the K1 is a better choice if you only going to print in one color at a time, if you slow down the print speed I think you should get quite similar results for a third of the retail price. I'm considering the K1 to replace all of my ender 3 v2s. Great video as always !
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate these kinds of comments! The K1 is really a great deal, all ofthe printers seem to be coming down, maybe they know something we don't. Is there a next-next gen coming out soon?
You've given me an idea for a follow up video. Does the K1 or the X1C perform better worse or the same at high speed vs low vs in-between? We'd imagine that they'd all do better at lower speeds, but they're designed for high speeds, so maybe it's not what we think. I just wish I could get that little bit better extrusion consistency from the K1, it's so close, could it be the extruder. It's something that seems to be there regardless of the slicer we use. I really need other people to tell us whether this is something they see as well with their printers.
K1 Max is $650 at micro center right now and the K1 is $350
@@NeedItMakeIt I just saw the video of the new flsun s1 printing a benchy in 8min, they claim 1200mm/s. Maybe creality is moving towards the delta format printers, those machines are coming strong !
Wow, they must have some kind of hotend on there to keep up with that speed. ULTRA VOLCANO HOTEND... END... END! I'll have to check this out. Imagine at those speeds when something goes wrong, you'll have no clue what happened, it will just explode into a pile of parts. The idea of the delta is very different from the others, it is naturally more stable because of the way the hotend is being held. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one, even if its a small one.
I have both printers, but if I have to trust a printer I go to my k1, for $350 what an amazing printer if it cam multicolor I would just go with the k1
can you compare or make a video max surface quality test? thank you
What did you spray on the parts after printing? Was that just color paint or some kind of primer? Just watching this video for the first time I'm not sure if that's something standard you do with all your prints but I was curious
Hi,
I sprayed using the professional quick dry primer from Rustoleum. I do that for any test videos where I need to use white filament since it is so tough to show off the results. it seems to stick well to it and tends to show any defects really well.
What settings are you using on the K1 to print normal PLA. I ran out of the one that came with it and am having a hard time getting “Inland tough PLA” from micro center to work.
I'd change the flow from 23mm/s to 13 or 14, I had the same problem with some Red Overture PLA, I was struggling until I slowed it way down. There is a pretty big difference between standard PLA and high-speed with the rate it is able to soften the plastic. You can experiment a bit and raise the nozzle temp and raise the flow a little bit also, that will probably get you to 15 or 16. Let me know how that goes. I think there are a lot of people that are going to have the same problems we have in not having high-speed filament on-hand. It is quite a bit more expensive too.
Yes the K1 makes printing fun. This latest generation of printers is what will take 3D printing mainstream. Just design and send it to the printer via wifi. I tell everyone that If I were a kid, the K1 would be my favorite toy, It is that easy. And for prtotoy[ing this is what you want. You want to focus on generating ideas not be frustrated by tools that barely kinda work.
And that's something that not a lot of people think about. If they're getting a printer they should also be designing what they need themselves, it's going to give them an overall better experience and the satisfaction of having made something themselves. Remember when we had to walk over to the printer with an SD card? Ha that was just 6 months ago. They've really come a long way in a short time, and I'm sure as long as there is a market for printers, they'll continue to innovate and make them better. Finding ways to make parts which are isotropic would be one of the main ones in my mind. The parts we make are prone to breaking unless you take the 'grain' into consideration. It would be ideal to get to the point of injection molding.
Hello,
Thanks for the great video. Well done. I still have one question: is the effective printing time identical for both? If not who was the fastest ?
I replied from my other account this morning, Yeah, the Bambu was a little faster by about 5 minutes. I'll have to do a deeper dive into exactly why, Creality had far faster bridging, but I suppose it lost out on some areas. If I have some time today, I'll have a look to see where the difference were. Even though they're run from the same slicers, there are some settings that must be giving us the difference.
I like my k1. And as other have said it is way less than the p1s or the other comparable core xy printers. Now stock out of the box it is ok but once you root it and install stock klipper it is amazing. I aslonuse orca now and love the fact i can now send prints via wifi. I can't complain at all. Yes it is not perfect but it is by far the beat bang for the buck. And for those who like to tinker and upgrade it is the only choice. There are so many mods out for it and it will just keep groing. I have never like creality and did not even consider until they unlocked the firmware. I have 4 printers and my k1 is now my go to printer. I will try to get the k1 max next unless something else comes out at a good price
Cool video. It has good vibes
@@michaelhudson7809are you logged into the wrong account 😅
From the right account... USER ERROR... Thanks! I’ve been working hard on making better overall videos. Hopefully I can get a little more comfy in front of the camera
@@NeedItMakeIt you could put more b-roll on the screen while you talk over it. That’ll help you relax in the moment while you’re recording because you’ll know your face won’t be in most shots. CNC Kitchen isn’t in front of the camera much 🤷🏻♂️
@@br88dy I'm shooting for up to 5 videos a week, and I think the only way to get there reasonably on my own is to be in front of the camera more. I will certainly be adding more clips over my speaking to cover up times where my face looks strange or I'm looking somewhere out in space or who knows. I'd like to get to a point where it's natural, not too many re-shoots and also it's just genuine, I'm a real person and not acting or trying to get perfection, just share and experiment and invent and try to have a good time. I like CNC kitchen, the videos are always very informative and polished. He does an excellent job from what I can tell. It's quite a bit of work to create the level of work he does.
I've been 3d printing for a bit now. I've built several printers, bedsides prebuilts, and even designed my own to have all the latest bells and whistles. I was going to build a Voron for my next 3d printer, but on a whim, ordered a X1C. I now have an added P1S and another P1S on the way. I'll tell you what. I'm happy. I think for some, half the hobby is working on the machine. I get sick of that though. I want to spend time designing. This newer generation of printers really lend well to that. With the fastness, the accuracy, the cost.
My previous setup had 2 vypers a kobra max, and my custom printer. Had that whole setup tuned very nicely. Lost it all though and am rebuilding. Started with one Vyper, now a Kobra 2 max, X1C, P1S, and soon another P1S. It's funny looking back on that vyper. It still produces amazing prints for me, but oh boy is it slow now. Hahaha. I'm not sure I can get rid of it though.
As for a bigger Kobra 2 max vs the X1C or P1S. I mean, bigger bed for cheaper price, how can you go wrong?! It's a great printer, but it really is suited best for big things. Printing smaller jobs on that thing is less of an experience. My dad asked me why I got another P1S instead of another Max! And that was pretty much it. Plus, the space it takes up. If I got another, I'd have to get a bigger house.
This is a great point, it's like that mindset of buying a car and then upgrading it, some people want to upgrade their rides, and some people want to drive them. Nice that you've been able to build your own printer that takes quite a bit of expertise to pull off with success. I have also been planning to built a Voron, and I've started 2 times. The last time I was going to build a 0.2 and then I ended up with an X1C instead... I don't have a P1S, I'd like one, but I do have the K1, and it's pretty good too now that I run it with Orca.
Once you move to the faster gen of printers, it's pretty tough to go back, even if the quality may be slightly better, though it doesn't seem like there is much of a quality difference. I'll be looking to run my printers with different hotends, I'd like to switch to 0.8nozzles, and with that, I'll be pumping the filament out, I'll need high-flo so any suggestions are welcome!
The P1S is obvious a great printer for the price, nothing wrong with it, the Max will have a bit larger build volume, and that can come in handy on occasion, there are a few prints I've been holding off on for years and if I get a Max, I'll be all over 'em
Dont use Bambus cloud if you design as they will rip off your designs.
@@Optikification If you're working on anything proprietary, best to avoid it to be safe, or somehow conceal the purpose of the parts. That's a full-time job for several knowledgeable people to review anything being designed and translate that into something that could be taken, maybe it's worth the time to do if there are some really good ideas in there. Do you know of any instances of something like this happening?
@@NeedItMakeIt I think that person is dramatizing a bit, because you know, cloud scary! I've seen this argument get thrown around a lot for anything that uses the "cloud" in some manner, and I've never seen it actually play out like that. There's a number of issues if you break it down. Think about the volume of prints that get sent off a day. Think about all the little meaningless things people print. Think about all the broken prototypes that don't work at all. So we've got a system where we're funneling content into it, hundreds of print jobs every minute I'm sure. It's a mix of worthless junk, toys, gimmicks, broken prototypes that'll never work because they're still in the prototype stage. It would be nearly impossible to pick out the worthless from the junk. You would have to be targeting someone very specifically.
That's not to say someone wouldn't get targeted, but it's wild to think that Bambu would be the one doing the targeting. It does not make corporate sense at all. Bambu isn't some fly by night company. They've established themselves as a major player. Now, I do think 3d printer companies have a bad way of taking community work and trying to pass it off as their own, but I don't think they're doing it to the extent that they're monitoring your unpublished designs looking for things to steal.
Lastly. Working in a large corporation, there is a corporate interest in security. For Bambu to be able to get corporate work on that level, they need to show that their cloud can securely handle confidential information, or provide a non-connected/local way of operation. If they're being targeted, it likely wouldn't be by Bambu, but by someone else, and there's a number of ways one could get in to pilfer work. Not to mention like I said earlier, designs going through the cloud to printers are often not the whole story. So what you want access to is not the files going through the cloud, but the original source design files. Which shoot, if you use Fusion 360, your files are in the cloud there too, soo.
From my perspective, one should take security serious, and hold companies to task. However, I think that needs to be balanced, otherwise we all just become paranoid, hiding in our basements afraid of everything. People want to assume the worse, and that every corporation is evil (actually they are), but it's a very black and white view that fails to realize the realities of the world. We shouldn't trust that large corporations always have the best intentions, but that doesn't mean we can't utilize these services either. Being a fanboy/girl is kind of the opposite end of that, where you blindly follow a company, despite anything. You need a balance. Enjoy a company's products and offerings, but always question and hold them to task.
@@NeedItMakeIt I was thinking about it a little bit. I think the Max sized printer is a valuable printer to have if you're into 3d printing. Those 400mm+ sized printers. There's a lot that can be made on a 250ish sized printer, but I've found that a number of my practical around the house needs don't fit on such a small bed, but rarely require more than a 400 sized bed. I've designed a number of board game organizers that I'd have had to split up on a smaller sized bed. I've done a number of drawer organizers and inserts for tools too. It was years too before I finally gave in and got the first Max I had, but ever since then, I can't work without it in my tool chest of printers.
I wish it was easier to swap in different sized nozzles. I haven't done it on the Bambu yet. It doesn't seem like it would be too crazy, as long as you're swapping the whole assembly. Fair enough. On the Anycubic printers though it's a little more tedious. One thing I hate about most designs of 3d printers, is I find the print head to be difficult to actually service, despite it being the part that most often needs servicing. The Prusa Mk2 was one of the worst for that, I felt. I hated the print head design of that. Had a few frustrating times with it, haha.
Back in the day, I had designed a printhead that I used on most of my printers. It was built around ease of serviceability. I used a network cable with a breakout on the toolhead, to make disconnecting it easy. It was held on by magnets! It worked really well. I would have several print heads ready to go, with different nozzle sizes! It was awesome and the easiest system I ever used/had for experimenting with the hotend and nozzle sizes. Printing with those big nozzles was a blast! I'd be interested if you did a video on the larger nozzle sizes! I bet with a .8 nozzle on something like a max, could easily print a table and chairs. Haha.
I recently had a demo of both and the Bambu P1S. The finish was definitely better on the Bambu. Is it worth the extra? I'm not sure.
Bambu printers seem to have an overall more well thought out design as well as integration for future planning (AMS etc.) When comparing the K1 against the X1C, the X1C wins out, but it's not really fair, I've also had some prints made on the P1S, and the results are quite good as well, the Bambu printers also have larger build volumes vs the K1. The K1C has some nice changes which improve the quality, I'll have to try to get my hands on one and compare again. I think the smaller pulleys and motors for X/Y will provide a better result on the VFA issue for sure. The extruder doesn't seem to be quite as responsive as the Bambu's, retraction and extrusions aren't quite as precise. They're all good options at this point, just be weary of the bed slingers with Linear Bearings and rods for the Y travel, they're prone to vibration and movement issues.
Did you tune flow for both? I would expect to run PLA hotter than 220 if you ste trying yo push speeds up to 500 - even as far as 235. Depends on the model. In the real world, not general torture tests, you can get better results by changing the profile to fit the model - different settings if you have lots of bridges, or overhangs or thin pillsrs etc etc.
Torture tests are an indicator to help you do that
Creality had been calibrated for that filament yet, the Bambu I left as Auto. As far as temps raised the nozzle temp for the test yes.
The test was really to see what the results would look like when we reach the higher speeds of the machines. I didn't expect perfection, but certainly based on the results of each test we could fine-tune and do better. I showed a little bit of that on the string tests. I have a new extruder on the way for the K1, I want to replace mine to see if I have a problem with my extruder, or perhaps it is just the reverse Bowden coming in on too tight of an angle... or maybe something else. I don't think I did a good enough job showing the scale of the models, they are quite small and I tried to make all of the defects show as much as possible. I have a follow up video I'm working on to show a better benchmark comparison to a high-speed result. I also want to test to see what happens when I run the walls at the higher speeds, they were still down a bit. Thanks for the help, I'll be taking everyone's comments into account at least a much as I can for the next videos.
I like the comparison idea.
I like your attention to details, like using exact same spool for both.
But, then you print with open cabinets, on two enclosed printers ... To me, that doesn't make sense, if quality is part of what you are looking for.
Hey, this morning I replied from the wrong account. Thanks for your comment! I'm not sure if you saw the first comment or not. The high speed printing on a part like this will have trouble cooling, the doors are open and sometimes the tops come off to keep everything cool for the best results. If I were printing something Like ASA or ABS/ PC or Nylon, there would be too much warpage if the doors were open, the chamber needs to say pretty hot to reduce the amount of warpage. PLA also warps, but it's manageable. PETG seems to be the most stable, it stays remarkably flat, I tested my PETG prints on a surface plate for precision steel parts and it's quite good considering that it's plastic.
On the other side of things, because I'm shooting video and need to capture the prints, I need the doors open, they are highly reflective and tinted and I need all of the light I can get. Printing ASA I'd have to add a lot more light from the top to see inside properly.
I hope that speaks to your points. Let me know what you think.
I have an X1C and found that printing with the chamber sealed can lead to heat creep and jams between the extruder and the hot end.
Did both prints finish at the same time? Or was K1 faster to finish?
Actually, the Bambu was slightly faster, I just looked a bit deeper and found a few differences, the inner and outer walls on the Bambu were faster saving about 6 minutes OA, the bridging was slower and top and bottoms were slower than the K1. I'll have to see which factors contributed to the difference, it should not have been a flow or speed restriction with the inner and outer being set a fair amount lower than the infill. I think with a bit of adjustment in the right place, both printers could be producing at the same speeds.
@@NeedItMakeIt I was expecting a totally different result. At the time, I thought the intent of this was to show that the Creality was gonna print 2 or 3x faster, but that didn't happen. 6:28.
Another note, you asked for comparisons to others. That's only valid if you mention specific print times.
@@jimbarchuk The Bambu loses some time at the beginning because of the calibration sequence, it did look a bit like the K1 was going to blow the X1 out of the water.
I'm not 100% sure about your note about the comparisons. I think you're referring to my request for other people to share their experiences. If that's the case, I like to do that so we have a larger pool to average the good and bad of each printer. My experience alone with these two printers doesn't always equate to the actual overall performance of each printer I test, better to crowd source information for better OA perspective. I may be answering the wrong question, so please let me know if I am.
I plan on making a follow up video about these printers as well, I'm not certain that printing with either of these printers at slower speeds yields any benefits, it may be the opposite in fact, I'm going to do a bit more research before I make a video.
Hard to find comparison videos using the same slicer. Thanks for making this.
Too many four month old comparisons prior to the open source software release and the significant price drops on the K1.
Most makers haven’t updated since they did their early comparison videos when their free units arrived.
My pleasure!
I wasn't feeling good about Creality slicer and running comparisons between the printers using it. I love Orca, it's so nice to be able to run both printers from the same slicer, and switch back and fourth easily for the same parts on the buildplate. It's pretty cool! Another innovation to help us get the parts we want, faster and more reliably. It makes my job a lot easier for testing too :)
I made a video a few months back with the drill press chuck key mount, but I wasn't happy with the results from the K1, I stopped until I had the new slicer running.
I'll keep them coming, I really appreciate you taking the time to give some feedback, it means a lot. I am committed to providing better content which helps people... or at least is entertaining.
It seems the marketing budget ran out about 4 months ago
@@corcorandm haha maybe!
I hear a bunch of trash talk about Prusa's MK4 with input shaping vs Bambu Labs etc. After having a had a bit of a crisis deciding to go with the MK4 over Bambu initially, I'm glad I did. The print quality of both the X1 and Creality K1 are atrocious compared to my MK4. Input shaping is now working really well, and print quality is next level compared to the test blocks here.
That's good, I'm glad it worked well for you. I didn't mention in this video as I have in past videos, but the point of the spray paint is to be able to show any defects as well as possible. I always use the most harsh lighting for this, the prints look far better when not doing this of course. If it took your prints and did this, they would also show defects. But I'll take your word for it that it is better. There are quite a few variables involved in getting a print that looks perfect, the filament itself plays a good part. I'll be testing Prusament soon, normally I'd buy the cheap no-name, but it's time to see how good a print can be with the good stuff.
If an opportunity came up to do a head-to-head between the MK4 and my two, I'd be all over it, hopefully we can make that happen if I can ramp up enough with this channel to afford to buy one.
@@NeedItMakeIt Thank you for taking the time to do comparisons. I don’t think the problem is the bambu, but mostly issues with printing 300+mm/s in general. I print only structural parts for commercial/industrial applications and layer adhesion and dimensional accuracy are my main goals. I keep the print speed to 200-250mm/s tops. A byproduct of this is incredible surface finishes on vertical walls. Basics.
The calibration/ torture tests you showed were pretty good all in all. What I would have expected to be perfect under any circumstance would be the basic exteriors wall geometry of the base before any of the complex printing was happening. It seemed neither printers could even get the sidewalls of the first 2-4mm to look great.
Check out this demonstration for clarification.
czcams.com/video/bT0Rj_d801o/video.htmlsi=A1D2IYPo7V0q06Qw
im happy with my k1, delivered to my door for under 400 bucks last week, all the teething issues seems to be resolved by crealety
That's good to hear, and a great price! By all of the feedback I've been getting it does seem that any lingering issues have been fixed. I do wonder if the extruder feed tube (reverse bowden) is still within the cable chain, and if it is, does that bend to the extruder not get too tight?
thats interesting as i was thinking K1 max because the K1 had many bad reviews in the past.
When you're winding that spool of filament and you're letting every inch of it rub across your fingers aren't you imparting some oil from your fingers onto the filament and wouldn't you expect that to impact the print in some way even if it's minor?
The truth is that everything will impact everything else to some extent. How much, I would expect that it isn't enough to be able to notice by any method that I can test with. After the first one or two seconds, any residual oils on my hands would have been transferred, maybe a few tiny particles of skin after that. I'd be happy to test it by some extreme method, but I'd have no clue how to gather enough skin oil to do the test. I'd need to go around collecting oily skin samples from everyone I know, which would be a strange conversation, slightly creepy.
To your point though, on occasion I watch some videos showing experts in the field of machining metal, specifically metal lathe work, and this particular video I am thinking of relates to the Lathe chuck. When the stock is chucked up, that's it, it's being held in place, but when we measure the deformation it's substantial, we just don't tend to make the measurements, and of course we need specific tools to do it accurately. It's interesting to me.
I've never thought about the grease on my fingers, realistically there are contaminants everywhere, dust particles, moisture in the air, the path the filaments takes.
Please provide me a method to test this and I will do it and we'll see the impact when we exaggerate the amount of oils on the filament.
the k1 heater is better with volcano, reduce temp more to remove stringing. bambu needs to print hotter. but in general, the prints are not good on both, those layer shifts should not be there. wet filament? crazy z hopping? pressure advance messed up?
Perfect, thanks for that. I figured that it was temp related, but I may have still had it a bit too high. One thing I noticed is that the points of the spikes on the K1 were not as precise as those of the Bambu, I'll have a closer look at how they're different, because there are no shifts on the Bambu, but there are on the Creality and if you watch it seems as though it's moving them around just a small amount as it's extruding. They are small and very tall, but the Bambu did better on that and I didn't show it well enough in the video. I know they don't look great, but with my somewhat extreme lighting and the paint I've used, they look a far worse than anyone would normally see, and I do that on purpose so that I can show every defect on the video. I'll also include some of this in the follow up video, it's good you pointed these things out.
comparing k1 with x1c is insane id would like test with with p1s...
High speed PETG? Do you have a filament recommendation?
I normally buy no-name cheap PETG, and I run it at 255 C, I've always been able to get away with using the standard Bambu PETG settings. I have Some Prusament PETG on order, it'll be here soon, when I've tested it out I can let you know if there is any speed advantage.
@@NeedItMakeIt The cap for Bambu PETG is set to 13mm2/s in Bambu studio, for generic PETG it is 12. Bambu ABS is 22mm2/s. Bambu PLA is 21 (I think).
So with Bambu slicer settings, you’re more or less half the speed. I don’t think it is possible to print PETG at high speed (comparable to ABS or PLA). Please prove me wrong, I would love to be able to print PETG at the same speed as ABS/PLA! 🙌🙏
@@Mr.X3D You know I've barely printed any PETG on my Bambu, that's about to change, because I need to get back into Printing structural parts so I shall see if I can dial it in. I still plan on changing the hotend to an aftermarket to be able to do a nozzle swap to a high flow, but that's probably not going to get close to the flow of PLA, so maybe more needs to be done.
Where can i find the Test stl file?
If you're running Orca, you need only to right click in an open space and then click 'add primitive' it will be in the menu under Autodesk FDM Test. It's a good test, it has just about everything you'd want and it's large enough to easily see the problems. If you don't use Orca, can you send me an email and I will send you the file.
A K1 v X1C is like ford v's Porsche, why not the K1 max, did they fix the issues people complained about with the K1 as i am now trying to decide if i should go P1S, K1 or K1 max, the X1c is to expensive for me.
For sure, I can am happy to do this as soon as I can get my hands on a Max. I would really like the Max also because I have some larger parts for the shop I'd like to print and the beds on the other printers are too small to make them in one piece.
It looks like most of the problems with the K1 have been fixed. I am still waiting for a new extruder myself to confirm that I can print quality parts at the 500mm/s because it did suffer a bit when cranked up to those speeds. I can't say for certain if it is the pinching of the reverse Bowden tube or the extruder, or perhaps the nozzle temp was not high enough, though in my tests for the follow up video I'm working on, the nozzle temp didn't seem to be a problem.
If you're a Bambu person, and the X1C is a little pricey, the P1S is a great option as well, you can upgrade as needed and you can add the color printing option later on. I also think that there will be a push for other companies to release their versions of these kinds of printers, we should see quite a few more high-speed printer which also give great results soon.
You should used the same exact settings for each one
You're probably right, but which settings the ones best for the Bambu or the ones best for the K1?
What was the answer? Please tell me which printer is of good quality and cost-effective
If you have the mmoney, the Bambu Lab Printer seems to produce better results and it does have the benefit of allowing you to print with color. But the K1 is far cheaper, less build-volume as I mentioned, but it is a great deal. Both printers are fast, but the K1 will be able to reach slightly higher speeds because it can heat the filament faster than the X1C. The X1C can be upgraded to get closer, but I believe the K1 will still be in the lead there. The K1 also is now open, which means that you'll have lots of the printing community providing upgrades both from a software and parts perspective. So each printer has their own benefits. I'll be doing more testing on the K1 to see just how fast I can run it so you should see some follow up videos on this as well. There is also a K1 Max, which is larger than the X1C and has many of the same features, it is more expensive than the K1, but less than the X1C. Hopefully that helps!
@@NeedItMakeIt So, as a result, if we want to have a more accurate and colorful print, we should go to x1, and if we want speed, we should go to k1max.
With a little tweaking, the K1 can get to the level of the X1C. BUT, with a little tweaking, the X1C can look much better than that too. Both are great machines. I prefer the P1 series over the K1 series, but the differences are smaller than they used to be with the previous generation of printers.
That's a good point, you can really dial them in more, it's just a matter of how much effort you want to put into it. Do you think that the slight variations in the surface on the K1 are related to the extruder or setup for the extruder? I wonder whether I should run a few tests to see if the tube is being pinched too much and I should remove the top to see if that helps a bit. With both running CoreXY, I don't see many reasons why the results can't be better. It's just a matter of finding the source.
Bambo = apple
K1 = samsung .
one is just ready to go and does the job perfectly, the other one can do the same but has so many things to set up.
Great review but I still can't decide between the two. Currently using Anycubic Kobra 2 Neo and want to upgrade to a faster, high quality printer. The K1 Max is on sale for AUD $1211 on Creality's eBay store and the X1C is AUD $1839 (without AMS) so there's a big price difference there. I've heard Bambu lacks customer service and Creality requires more tinkering to get quality prints out of the box. If K1 Max had AMS I'd buy one without hesitation.
I have another printer that I'll be reviewing in the next week or so, I can't say any more than that at this time, but maybe you want to wait just a little bit longer? Also, Bambu should be coming out with another printer, though I'd expect that it will be larger and may require more time for devel. The X1C produces better results overall, also you don't need to calibrate, it does this for you, the first layer is perfect 99% of the time. The K1 series are cheaper and they work well at the price, but you're right, there are a few things that still need to be tweaked.
@@NeedItMakeIt Awesome! I'll keep my eyes peeled 👍 I agree, I think I will wait for their next flagship printer 😅
@@raz5247 The next gen of printers should have larger beds, and the ability to print multi-material, I'm really looking forward to it. They should also have faster material changeovers like the Prusa XL. Hopefully not quite as pricey though.
@NeedItMakeIt This isn't a fair comparison, the X1C has AI LiDAR, you should have compared the K1 Max vs the X1C as that would have been a fair comparison.
Thanks for that. I did mention this in the video. In addition I also spent quite a bit of time calibrating the K1, where as I spent no time to do this on the X1C. The Lidar scanning is used for that exact first layer and for calibration of the filament including pressure advance. As stated by Bambu, manual calibration of the filament can result in an even better final result on their printers. czcams.com/video/eyhJrzUK9ZU/video.html If I had more printers I would include them, as I get more interest in my videos and a bit more income, I'll be doing more apples-apples comparisons, for now, this is what I have and I'm trying to make do with what I have. I hope that makes sense.
My k1 failed, and took 6 weeks for parts.. And 2 months for the apology kits. My first max came broken, and the second one did too. Now I have an x1 and a p1s.. Effortless. Can't get behind creality on this, they had ro refund me 2k usd
Okay, that's great info, it's exactly what I was hoping people would talk about. I wasn't part of the early group with the K1 so I was lucky and I know they had a fair amount of trouble at the beginning. I didn't realize that there were any issues with the Max as well. I'm with you on the X1, I don't have a P1 though I want one to compare, I think they're really good and printing CF filament isn't something I do often anyway. It's no exaggeration that you can take them out of the box, install the slicer, and you're ready to print. I wish I had recorded it, it would've made a short video.
Thanks for leaving a comment with your experience, I'm sure it'll help some people if they're on the fence.
Having both printers on the same table running at high speed at the same time probably didn't help the input shaping on either printer.
Remarkably they both seem nearly unimpacted by the additional vibrations. I've done some previous tests on this before coming to this video eventually. If I place one printer on top of the other, there is a very slight change, but it's still in the realm of acceptable.
Everyone telling you that there's a high speed filament just wants to grab your money. There's nothing like a high speed filament. There's high flow hotends and good extruders tho. 😅
The material can be as high speed it wants, if the hotend can't hold up melting the material.
No doubt that it is far more expensive, I am not a fan of the price of it, but it does melt far quicker, I've had a lot of trouble trying to get anywhere as close when 'non-high-speed' filaments. I agree that a swap of the hotend/nozzle will payoff in allowing anyone to run standard filaments at high speed, it is definitely worth the investment.
I'll be throwing some tests together in upcoming videos showing the results of a high-flow on the K1 and I'd like to do the same on the Bambu, it should be more dramatic since it's running the hardened nozzle.
Great point, and I like to save $$ whenever possible, why spend 40$ a spool when you can spend $25
@@NeedItMakeIt They're achieving stuff like that using additives and / or material blends. That's it. But also that's exactly what makes the properties as in strength, durability and heat resistance worse. Basically you're paying extra for "speed" while loosing a lot good properties from the basic stuff. A good example on how too much is too much would be eSuns latest receipt on ABS+. But that's a story for another day.
In the end it's those 4 things ruling on the speed of a printer:
1. Nozzle (regular, CHT style,..)
2. Hotend
3. Extruded
4. Cooling
The highest extrusion capacity is worth nothing when there's insufficient cooling.
Nevertheless both printers, the K1 and the Bambu are extraordinary in this fields.. Take a look at their speedbenchys. I mean what were they, 15min or so? Man. Even my Voron can't hold up with this. 😅
In some comments responding to a video I released this morning, there was a great point raised. What is PLA like after a year. The part strength deteriorates, as the material itself is designed to breakdown 'quickly'.
I agree that the high-speed PLA that you have to pay more for should not be the solution, we need to look at the hotend/nozzle to be able to use the existing materials without having to spend 2x the amount on the high speed stuff, even though it does seem to work well, and they claim that it is quite a bit stronger, it's better to keep things simple.
To your point about cooling, that is a big one for sure, it isn't always a problem depending on part size or how many parts we're printing, but seeing some of those high-speed Benchy tests really show what happens when you can't cool your parts fast enough. I see the FLSUN S1 has a sort of turbo style fan due to the high speeds they're trying to reach. To me is look like they've introduced a turbine approach to compress the air. The video doesn't show it well enough, but it's an interesting idea.
Great points, love the feedback, thanks!
Wow. You could have 4 K1s for the price of the X1C. 🤔
There, the right account! I'd say when tech goes wrong, but it's just USER ERROR... It’s hard to believe they can sell it for that cheap. About 4 years ago I purchased an Anet A8 for close to that price, it was slow and inaccurate. I’m still not sure what exactly is causing that little bit of variation in the surface finish. The K1 printer seems to shake more than the Bambu when running high speed, but I see this at lower speeds also, could it be the setup for the extruder.
@@NeedItMakeIt glad you switched accounts. I'd also clean up the other ones 😅
$650 for the K1 MAX in micro center right now. Unreal. Im legitimately option paralyzed. The MAX print space is huge (I am self employed) and need that space. But the Bambu are so polished 😅
...because this "youtuber" dont have P1S....
@@sore500 I don't really know what you mean, can you give a bit more insight?
For the Difference in Price Bambu should be a little embarrassed. That being said the bambu user experience as well as easp of replacing parts like the Nozzle are hands down the best in the Business. i wouldn't get a X1 its too expensive for what you are getting But the P!P/S or the A! are absolute Deals for the Price. Creality with their Copy of the X! is Also to be congratulated as the K1 series after a few hiccups that have mainly all been fixed is an amazing value and I would NOT fault anyone who get one over the bambu. NOw all the other Printer manf need to get w the program.
I made a follow up video and talked about my method of testing and why the prints look so bad. This technique of spraying with grey primer really seems to highlight any irregularities in an otherwise normal looking print. Granted, the prints aren't perfect either one, but I was running higher speed than normal, so I have to give a little bit of lee-way, I thought they'd do a little better. I'm still waiting on my new K1 extruder to see if that helps. The follow up showed pretty good results on slower speeds for both printers. The K1 did not have nearly the flaws that I showed in this video.
I'm looking forward to the next, next generation of printers, will it be Bambu, Creality or someone else, like FLSUN with their S1? Qidi seems to be trying hard to get into the race as well, but I don't know how to pronounce it yet, Kee-dee? Quee-dee? Queue-ee-dee? Well in any case I see them putting some printers out there that seem to perform well, and of course there is Prusa, the XL looks pretty nice, but it's very $$ and falls into a new category.
Maybe Creality will send you a K1 Max to review...
Thank you so much for the Support! I would absolutely willing to test out the K1 Max. I've love to setup the K1 I have as well with Lidar and camera for the K1 as well and see if that can bring the levels up just that little bit more on the K1. I'm still blown away by how far printers have come in such a short time. I was just speaking with someone yesterday about the FLSUN V400 and printing a Benchy in 8 minutes or under, but at those speeds we're not going to be able to see the movement of the printers. Very cool... and a little bit scary. Again, thank you, this helps a lot now that I'm full-time on content creation.
Najlepszym wyborem jest p1s cena jakość
Now vs the q1
That can be arranged!
you lost me at the ridged drill... LOL have some pride man! red or yellow!
Well.... let me tell you Sir :). I have owned Ridgid tool since I was just a teenager, and I still have many of my original Ridgid tools, the others that I don't have, I sold. That's 25 years of regular use. I think the only problem I've had is one Lithium battery which was replaced under warranty. My trade is Woodworking, and I've used all of the brands. Ridgid is not the best by any means, but they've lasted and for me, that's what's important. I also can't stand the bright Yellow, I own a few Milwaukee, I've never been blown away, I am a fan of Makita, they focus on what's important. All of that said, I think if I were to buy a corded/cordless now, it wouldn't be Ridgid, the quality isn't like it used to be, so. We all love to have a brand and stick with it, it's like picking a Hockey Team... but some of them never win sadly.
It's pretty difficult to choose a new printer. I've used Creality since the beginning so I know once it's sold in larger quantities and better slicer profiles will emerge, the community will improve the K1 drastically. My Ender 3 v2 is some years old now and looks nothing like the original but the prints that come off it looks way superior to these from the Bambu and the K1, ok, these printers are in another league speedwise but I'm not impressed at all on both of them. But for me speed is less important than quality.
Also the AMS multi color unit is not important at all for me. Prints in color with just the bare filament color looks just plain ugly to me, but I like to paint my prints and that is of course not for everyone. Also the huge amounts of poop I see in every Bambu video bother me a bit, it's just wasting material.
I'm convinced the K1 will improve a whole lot the coming months, especially now they opened up the firmware as open source.
And in my opnion the K1 just looks much better than the Bambu. Also my personal preference of course.
Very good honest video!
a-boat, lol
anyone saying they should use hyper pla you shouldnt trust,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Why are u spraying them
I spray them because it helps to show all of the defects. The white filament is far too bright to see the problems. Spraying the primer like you'd do on a car when you're prepping it for final paint seems to do the best job of showing any problems. I'm also always using harsh lighting, it tends to make the prints look worse than people would normally see at home.
@@NeedItMakeIt ok
If you want a truly scientific test, you need to use the exact same settings on both.
It's a bit of a rabbithole, but yes I have been deep-diving into each of the settings to see if I can get them a bit closer. Even after making some adjustments, it is strange to me that the results still are not as close as I would expect, in the slicer there is still a fairly big gap in print speed around inner and outer walls. In theory it should have given Creality an advantage because it was slower with inner and outer, however the end product didn't seem to reflect that. More testing required. I do have a new extruder on the way, there is a possibility that there is still a lingering problem with my printer.
As I get a bit more established, I will be more methodical in my testing, you should expect to see the Science factor increase over time.
I feel like you should of used filament from a third party
I have plans on testing filaments. There aren't many out there which are meant for high speed, and with the stock extruders, they're not going to be able to get to the speeds I wanted. I've had good success with the Hyper PLA though it is quite expensive. I think an extruder swap with something like Micro Swiss High Flow for the K1, and E3D's for the Bambu would be a good tests at high speed. We can always revisit, I'm happy to do them.
I can only hear Bambucrap 💩 Fanboy exuses at 7:20
First put some finger grease on the filament and then start testing!
That's actually really funny, you're the first person I think who has mentioned that. It would seem that the grease causes a performance improvement. And thank you for the future video idea.
@@NeedItMakeIt Hope you mean it ironically!
@@lazyman1011 Nope, I'm going to make a video showing your idea and post it. Seeing as how the one with finger grease on it performed better, it must be a good thing right? Don't worry I'll make sure you get the credit for the idea.
@@NeedItMakeIt Haha, it’s not an idea. It was a fault from you to put grease on.
But if you like slippery filament between the gears just do it.
@@lazyman1011 That's too bad that an idea is not an idea because what you say is true because you've said it.
I think it would make for an interesting test, but without testing there is nothing telling me that there were any adverse affects from 'slippery' finger grease on the filament. So I shall take the idea that is not an idea and test it to be able to have some information that I can base a claim off of rather than making an assumption.
@lazyman1011, please keep the comments coming, you're giving me lots of fuel for future videos!
Sorry, this wasn’t a valid test. You know why.
You are making a lot of excuses for the k1
Who won? I encourage everyone to try to build their own. Then you win.
You'll have to watch the video, there is a short also. I tried to show everyone the results from each side so they don't just need to based it off of what I've said, they can decide for themselves! I've love to build a Voron, it's pretty pricy though, even just for parts. I am hoping they'll come out with a new design and I'll jump on it, it's been a little while since I've seen anything new from them.
@@NeedItMakeIt I watched the video earlier, it's good and you're doing a great job! Just mean we need to get our ingenuity back even if it costs more at the moment.
@@robbyg3989 Oh, I'm not offended at all, I find it hard to know what people want to see so I can go a little overboard sometimes, or a little ...underboard other times.
I like your way of thinking, if we just buy everything pre-made, we're not helping ourselves long-term, we should always welcome a challenge. If I can generate a bit more income from YT, I will be moving in this direction, I think you're right and it's good to push your limits to learn. This is a good mindset to be in.
@@NeedItMakeIt you have some wonderful printers that I'm sure will help. Keep up your good work!
@@robbyg3989 I feel the Voron itch coming on again... It would be great to have one to be able to compare each printer and them push the limits on each. Thanks a lot for taking the time!
Please excuse me to iterate from the latest Whitney Webb interview.. there will be a cyber attack within one year in an attempt to privatize the internet so download backup and Faraday bag EMP all electronics you don't want wiped. Communicate to developers. Save your work