BAD First Layer Your K1 and K1 Max Printer? Here's how to get the best results.
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- čas přidán 16. 02. 2024
- If you own a K1 Max, you know what I'm talking about. I love the printer, but getting a good first layer seemed nearly impossible... that is until now!
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The K1 series of printers has to be one of my favorite of all time, I don't have a Voron to compare against, but I do have a Bambu, and I really like the Bambu as well, but it's not quite as open to adjustments as the K1 printers are.
The smaller K1 is good, it performs really well, I've been really happy with it, I think for the price it's one of the best out there at the moment. The K1 Max is a bigger and meaner version of the K1, but it also comes with a bit of a hidden problem. When you try to get a good first layer, it seems like it's impossible. The results keep changing, I was never able to dial it in exactly, so what's going on with this printer, or the firmware, or who know?
Well in this video we find out exactly why we're having the problem and not only that, we're going to take it one step further and show how you can get even better results than you thought possible.
I hope you enjoy the video and find it helpful. If you do, consider subscribing or buying me a coffee on Patreon to help support the channel. I do everything myself and I want to continue to bring the best possible videos and solutions to you.
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You are a life saver, I'm totally new to 3d printing! I have a K1 max and printing in ASA with the bed temp at 100c, the item was a 210x210mm base and it was hit and miss to ever get the first layer down, did like you showed heating the bed for 10 mins to 100c and wow perfect, works every time. Thank you so much 🙏🏼👍🏼
I have implemented this strategy and it along with adding bed adjustability the root have mad my K1 Max a much better printer. Thanks a ton for these how-tos.
I also have a follow up video to this one showing how to automate this process, and thanks to @Stew675, we have an even better setup where we have the amount of soaking time based on the temperature of the bed as well. Check the description in my czcams.com/video/eRP7aqOyKBk/video.html video, it shows what you can use for each common slicer as well.
Heat Soaking the larger beds is critical. This can be achieved in the slicer print-start G-code for the printer by adding "G4 P300000" after the code that warms the bed, and before the first G28 that does the bed homing and levelling. "G4 P300000" basically asks the printer to dwell/idle for 5 minutes before homing/leveling. Doing this allows for the bed's temperature to equalise. Alter that 300000 as required. 10 minutes would require "G4 P600000" instead.
I'm going to try this out. There is no sense in risking a bad first layer, it's far better to program the wait time in now that we can see that it takes at least 10 minutes at temperature to settle. It does change a little bit more even after 20 minutes, but it's very minimal. I'll do another test over a 1 hour period with the indicator as well just to understand how it changes over an entire print.
Could you take a picture of the G code so I know exactly where they put it?
@@jacory1980 I haven't had a chance to implement it yet, but as soon as I do, I'll provide you the info and I'll also make a short follow up video so everyone knows what to do.
I am new to 3-D printing about six months. I have a K-1 max. I really need to root it but I’m so scared.
@@jacory1980just follow Guilouz’s guide precisely and you’ll be fine.
I rooted my K1 before I did any printing so i don't have a base for comparison. That said I love running Klipper on all my machines and the K1 does a very nice job, especially with Abs and other materials that need a heated chamber. I got mine about a week ago and I think creality may have actually listened to the comments and really made an effort to fix the issues that came with the earier versions...mine has been plug and play. I rooted it and run Klipper w/ Fluidd, KAMP, and moonraker. Workes well. Great video and thanks for the info...i edited my config for a 10 min wait. Will be testing this now.
pretty cool, had this on my watch later list for a while now. im now adding it to my 3d printing favorites list for future reference.
Excellent video thank you, its great to understand that pre-heating more will get us consistency, I was wondering why my mesh was always changing between scans. I have had very few failed prints with my K1 Max and will be happy to fine tune it thanks to this video.
Thank you! I really like the printer as well, but that first layer and the problems everyone has been having with it, there must have been some underlying cause. This might be common knowledge for some people who design printers, but for the rest of us, it's great to be able see it. I'd still like to find out how to add the info to the code for this printer and make a follow up video for the pre-heating so we can be confident that we're going to have the best result each time. It looks like this isn't too hard to do, but I'm no programmer and I just started diving into the coding part of 3D printers.
Really useful and intersting video. Thank you! Half a mm of movement during stabilisation is an eye-opener!
Thank you, I was pretty surprised when I saw the dial moving that much, I ran several of those tests to make sure I could duplicate the results. Luckily it seems to be repeatable and we should be able to compensate for it. I have another video coming out soon to help with that.
Just bought a K1 Max the other day, printed some PLA to start, worked very well, then tried PET-G and two failed first layers - now I know why. Thanks. I'll preheat to 80 and leave it there 10 min. I'll have to figure out how to edit the config file to change the prob temp to 80°. I was able to get better results using the glue they supplied and is recommended on the machine. Have never played with flow rates but having paused the machine a couple of time to pick off big blobs I will have to learn how to do that too. This is my third printer and looking forward to getting better at printing on it. Thanks for this video.
Thank you very much, I am planning to root my K1 Max and I am definitely going to trying Kamp.
Great video, I have a Creality CR-10 Smart, which for those who know it is very complicated to level, I learned the hard way, to always heat the table for 10 or 15 minutes and then do the leveling, and whenever I change PLA/PETG material / abs, repeat the procedure with the correct temperature.
Thanks! Back in my ender days, I would try not to move the printer, but it also had a glass bed and seemed to stay flat pretty well. Changing to a spring-steel bed changed things a little bit, those printers are smaller than yours though. A thicker machined aluminum plate is a good idea for some printers, but not bed slingers sadly. What kinds of things do you print on your CR-10 Smart?
Thanks mate I needed this. Running into the same issues
Inspiringly good looking first layer!
Just one small spot that I can't seem to get perfect, maybe too much warp for the mesh to compensate for? At least it's one of the best I've seen on this printer. So many people were complaining about that first layer, at least we have a bit more insight into why that might be, and I hope that Creality will increase the thickness on the next generation.
Great advice and results here. My K1 Max's bed maintains a predictable bow in it during heating. I'd love to grab a hunk of 6mm mic6 plate and make a super flat bed for good, but in the mean time, I came up with a stupider but cheaper solution. I added strips of masking tape, more layers in the low areas, between the magnet and the build plate. It works.. ok. Ish.
I have a follow up video as well showing that the bed will continue to change shape until about 10-20 minutes has passed. There is a good way to handle it, the video is named "let it soak" and there is some Gcode you can copy into your slicer that helps with this as well.
Very interesting, thank you. I use the auto leveling on my Ender 3 V2 after about 5-6 prints or if it's been sitting for a long while. I always preheat the bed and nozzel before I do the leveling. I think the next time I preheat before leveling I'll check the bed temp with an infared tester to see what the differences are over the whole preheated bed. Thank you for the infromative video, it woke up my brain! LOL!
That's great, I'm glad you thought so. The auto-level is so nice, and on the smaller beds it seems to stay quite a bit 'flatter' or at least changes shape a lot less. My Enders and K1 don't really cause any problems for me. If you're looking for perfection, a longer pre-heat is a great thing, and if you can get KAMP on your printers as well, it is so nice. Super precise meshes and less time to make them as well.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, I had a great time trying to figure out what was going on here. I just wish I woke my brain up and used the dial indicator first...
Great content. Thanks for the helpful information!
Super clean 1st layer! Great tips. I think I am going to wait to root my k1 max since I have only had it a week.
Thanks I hope this helps some people to avoid some of the issues I've been running into. If you don't want to root and install Moonraker etc. pre-heating for the 10+ minutes before a print should give you pretty good results. I'm just doing some research now to see how easily we could create a thicker plate for a better final solution, but the plate size is 315 x 310mm which is slightly over 12 x 12, not a great starting point.
@@NeedItMakeIt I used to always preheat my old printer, but was not in that habit on the k1 because of how fast it heated. After watching this I began preheating this morning with better results. Keep the tips coming!
@@brokewheels5 It's one of those things like watching grass grow, it grow, we know, but sitting and watching it, you'd never know it's happening. A timelapse really helps to show the change. I'll be speaking with Creality because I think this is a great printer, if it can only have a 1/8" thicker plate or perhaps a cast plate with some type of gusseting it could be so much better. I'd like to get a thicker plate and do some testing to see how much of different it'll make. This being 310 x 315, they're not making it easy to buy a piece to test out.
Lots more to come! I have two videos set for this week coming, both fairly simple, but helpful I think.
Thanks for taking the time!
Thanks a lot for the tips, I'll try those out! 🙏🏻
I'm glad to help and I hope that with some of these little adjustments people have a lot more success on that first and very important layer.
I'll keep investigating for upgraded bed options, but at least we know enough to use it as-is and should be able to get repeatable results each time.
thats exactly what i run in... i mostly print petg...so i was fu...ed until i started rooting and using it with orca over interface..now everything is fine
Kinda crazy to watch it warp that much, but I always knew they did that, varying from printer to printer of course. Over 0.5mm is a huge swing though. No wonder the results vary so much. Allowing temperatures to reach a stable state will definitely be critical for the most accurate and repeatable results. KAMP is awesome too. Good insights!
There were lots of people requesting to have their beds swapped out for 'flatter' ones, unfortunately it's only going to be close to flat, and only at one temperature after letting it steep at that heat for a while. It's good to know though, now we know what to look out for on a bigger printer.
I have a follow up video coming out tomorrow to show a good option for people who don't want to upgrade to a thicker bed. But I also heard back from GulfCoast Robotics and I'll work with them to test out the thicker bed option when they have it ready. I like the idea of having a full kit and not needing to source the separate pieces myself. From the website, their prices were pretty reasonable as well.
Good job buddy. Thank you for the help.
No problem, I'm glad I could help!
Another cracking video Mike, thanks. I'd love to see you review one of the thicker "ultra flat" third-part aluminium beds for the Max some time.
Thanks! I'd love to do the install and test one out as well. I'll shoot an email to GulfCoast Robotics to see if they're willing to send me a K1 and K1 Max. I know they're trying to get one for the Max to the market, but it's not quite as simple as the smaller K1.
We'll have some good data from this video to compare against. I think the only thing that could cause a bit of a problem is the laser scanner and the height of the bed in relation to it. I'm sure we can find a way to compensate for it, but I don't quite know how yet.
@@NeedItMakeIt Great idea. I also saw one available from "mandalaroseworks" - not sure how it compares but it seems to be much more expensive! :-)
This was a very helpful video. Thank you!
You're very welcome! I have another one coming very soon as a partial solution, at least it will allow people to get good results with an automatic process.
Hi Mike, great video. 1 like and 1 subscriber. I've had a k1 max for 2 weeks and I have warping 5:21 issues on large prints (with or without glue). I did all the creality print calibrations but same issue. It mainly wraps on the right side of the bed, the side close to the side fan. I also noticed with my laser thermometer that the right side of the bed was colder than the others. So should i do something about this fan and what should i change please? I use generic PLA.
My first layer seems to be good, just crushed enough, not too much. Thanks for your help
To the automate the process, the following code could be added in the slicer or in the macro. It setting the print to wait 5 minutes.
M190 S60 ; wait until the bed reaches 60 degrees before continuing
G4 P3000000 ; wait 5 minutes before continuing
do you add this to the G code of the printer or the filament?
I'm going to give this a go, thanks for that. Oh there was a question below, where do you recommend adding this? Do the custom code in the slicer or can we add it within the config files as well?
@@Outlaw.Woodworking I would put it in the startup gcode in the slicer.
Truly amazing information. Thank you!
I'm glad you found it helpful!
Always pre-heat.
This is true for all FDM-printers with automatic mesh leveling.
PS: If you have one or two low areas consistently, you can ad small pieces of kapton-tape under the magnetic plate at the low spots.
Seeing is believing, I understand more now why it's so important to have a thicker plate and slower heating...or pre-heating at least.
@@ZappyOh I suppose if you always print with the same materials, that would work, the shape changes quite a bit at different temps though. I'll also do some testing to measure over a several hour period and see how it changes. I did measure over 20 minutes and it did change by 0.003", but that was after I had made the video sadly. It wasn't a lot, but it does tell me that the shape continues to change even over a longer period. I'm working on helping a company called GulfCoast Robotics to create a replacement with a thicker machined plate, hopefully I can test one out and see how much of a difference it makes.
Voron is going to release a BIG printer the 'Phoenix' or the '24', name unconfirmed at this point, they are using 4 separate plates each with their own heaters. They know their stuff, I'd imagine those plates are quite thick.
how long should i preheat the bed for? ive always had a bed slinger with no auto mesh leveling and just recently switched to k1 Max. thanks!
@@RemTV1 Usually 5 minutes (at temperature) prior to auto-leveling is plenty for me.
I'd love to see you upgrade the K1 max build plate to a Mandala Rose Works thick build plate. Can't find any reviews on this product anywhere.
Great content! much appreciated.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I have lots more coming up, I think 2 next week. One for the K1 printer and one about Maker World.
Hey thanks for the video I really liked it and it’s a good time as I’ve noticed my first layer isn’t great. It would be great if you could go into how to add the temperature and hold for every print in G code as I have my printer calibrate on every print
The bed on my K1 Max is pretty badly warped, and I am having a tough time getting CS support to send a new one. I have followed multiple guides, including this one, and my best result yields the front corners at 0.85 and 0.55, center at 0.36, and back corners at 0.83 and 0.92. Lowest point is 0.29. I'm using fluidd, have gone step by step through this, even let it heat up for 20 mins to be safe. I have tried heating the bed and loosening/tightening the bed screws again just to make sure those weren't causing warping...not sure what to do...thoughts?
Great tip!
KAMP definitely helps minimize the problem. The stock bed mesh run from the touch screen on my K1 Max was always a bit of a mess. If I'm printing a large mechanical part with a lot of bed surface contact, I'll soak the bed and nozzle. On small quick prints, I don't bother. I haven't measured how much the nozzle expands downwards on the K1 Max but on my other bed slingers, a brass or plated copper nozzle will expand downward about .09mm after a 10 min soak. The bed is expanding up, the nozzle expanding down, the poor bed probe throws its hands up and says I give up.
That's a great point, anything heating up is going to expand and move around at least a little bit. One other point I made in a previos video is that the span of the gantry is a bit too long for those Y axis rods. with any pressure, they'll deflect a bit too much. Again it's not much, but enough that I can see a tiny amount of movement. The quality is good, they seem to be hardened as well, but they're only 8mm and that's quite a span.
I'll have to check my nozzle while cold and while hot, you've got me really curious now about mine. I was also going to do another video about the different nozzles for this printer and that may play into it quite a bit as well! Thanks for sharing that!
Excellent video. Thanks.
Glad you liked it! Thanks, I hope that it helped to show a bit better what's been going on and why we've been having so much trouble.
Thanks for the effort
Hi, great info !! I have not rooted my K1 Max yet, is there a way to see the bed level mesh without it ? & what software is it: "Max Nimi" ? Thx
I didnt know the bed would change that much. Great info, there is a k1 group on fb that one person is beginning to make thicker beds, i am going to get one from the guy, so maybe you could find out to and maybe help out, thanks alot
It's amazing that it does, you need to see it to believe it. Thanks, it took a bit to figure it out, I'm still not 100% certain why the change occurs more in one direction than the other. The silicone heater has wires running directional, it might be related to that, or perhaps to the sticker attached to the top. Please let me know who this person is, I was planning on getting one made as well, I'd be happy to make a follow up video with the solution if someone could send me one to test out.
my man is on a mission to fix crealitys incompetence bit by bit
And save us 700 dollars at the same time instead of buying a closed source bambu printer
Hopefully with some of these issues pointed out, Creality can fix it in the next generation and for now, we can at least understand what on earth was causing our first layers to be so bad. Some of mine before I started the video were just horrific, it makes a lot of sense now. I'll create a short video showing how to modify the programming to wait at the temperature before probing and that'll get us really close, and what's 5 minutes more for the confidence of having the print turn out?
I still like these printers, the smaller K1 is one of my favs of all time... so far at least . They just need to fix a couple of small things, I don't know if the K1C has a thicker bed, it looks like they've concealed it with a shroud of some type.
@@edenrabian1337 It's amazing that we can get a printer that's this capable at that low of a cost. A few years ago I was printing with a slow and wobbly Anet A8 printer, assembly took me several hours. Now I can unbox it and start printing in 15 minutes. What will the next generation bring?
Thank you for a good video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it and thank you for taking the time to write a comment!
Let's hope somebody comes out with a 3rd party bed that has more thickness. I thought immediately that the bed looked thin when I bought it and you confirmed it here.
For the K1 at least, Gulf Coast Robotics has a thicker, machined aluminum bed replacement. I installed one on mine and it's VERY flat.
@@AvyrexOmegaive heard many good things about their creality upgrades in general. Im considering their bed bracket and linear rails for my ender 3
Great video as always! Didn't know you are "touching a buildplate with bare hands" type of a guy :P
Thanks! I can be bad sometimes, now that I have fingernails I don't tend to wear gloves to cover up my bad habits anymore. Don't worry though, I have been diligently cleaning the plate with alcohol between fingering it.
Think of bed mesh this way: the printer plots (physically measuring) real points and then guesses the space in between these points using an algorithm. In this case, stock K1 Max (assuming the same for K1) measures 36 real points (6x6 grid) and then mathematically guesses 220 points (guessed points between measured points: 2 for both x-axis and y-axis). Mathematically speaking -- 14% of the bed mesh points are real points and the rest, 86%, is computationally guessed at.
very helpful - thanks
You're welcome, I also have a follow up video which helps with getting even better results on this printer. It's called Let it Soak.
I found a 6mm aluminum bed plate on watts kraken for the k1 max. I am curious if anyone has bought this or tried a bigger aluminum bed plate.
I have gone back to the stone age and started using rafts for some prints. Amazing what miracles it can do on materials that warp
Really, I've only ever used it once, do you iron the raft first so you can get a smooth mating surface?
@NeedItMakeIt i never knew you could iron rafts. I just picked default settings and printed a 20 cm ABS part that kept warping out of shape and needed to fit precisely onto a telescope. Printed perfectly and only minor warping on one corner. The part was shapped such that it needed to be printed entirely on supports. I was surprised to find the raft also peeled of with ease
@@Hilmi12 Now I'm not sure about it either. I know you can create your own support structure if you want to have something like a raft but with an ironed surface. I guess if it needed supports, it would be irrelevant. That's cool, I've seen some people making their own telescopes with 3D printing and of course a few parts you can't 3D print...
great video
Really interesting as always.
I think the good old glass bed would be enough for this printer.
I can see that being a great solution, would the extra weight of say 3mm glass cause a problem for those sensors? Perhaps those CF plate options as well?
Yes CF is a good idea, I don't know if it is easy to find a really flat one
@@chatroux399 I just checked and they're very expensive, it'd be better at that rate to do the thicker alum plate and solve it as much as possible there instead. I like the CF, but that price is not justifiable.
Thank you for your work !
@@chatroux399 Anytime, I will continue to work towards a final and hopefully not too expensive solution, and I will also ask that Creality see about installing thicker plates on their future Max printers. For them it might be an extra 5-10$, for us, it's 70-80$ to swap it out.
Just stopped in to say you remind me of Alton Brown from the Food Network. I do like 3D printing, too.
Hello, thank you for your video, I had a hard time to print PETG this past week (I’m knew to 3D printing, I print 3D fonctional parts for E-bikes or different projects pro/perso). Always first layer that was not good. Could you help me more on that subject ? I change some parameters but I don’t get the z-offset working. Every time I try to change it the nozzle try to get into my PEI plate…
That is certainly not right. Your nozzle should never try to go into your buildplate.
The first thing to do is to try to set everything back to a time when you had it all working correctly. This may include completely resetting your printer. It sounds like a lot of work, but it's not, I did this the other day for my K1, and I was back running with some improvements within an hour.
Since the probing is done based on the nozzle position, I'd make sure to probe before each print and as we saw here in the video, make sure to pre-heat the printer for about 10 minutes, the bed shape changing could warp it enough so the nozzle would rub.
I can help more, maybe you can get me a short video of the issue in action and I can help a bit more from there.
Thanks!
Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment!
You mentioned at the end. To get a "thicker aluminum"... Do you have an exact thickness in mind?
Sure, it should be between 6mm and 8mm. I'd tend to stay a bit thinner, the extra weight could through off the way the sensors below the bed work. I'd almost want to create a webbing structure like you'd see with older cast iron lapping plates, but heating it would be tough.
In the netherlands this printer currently goes for around 800 euros. I'm sorry but that is just way too expensive for a printer that (according to feedback comments roughly 80% of the cases) needs tweeking and modding out of the box?! I will wait until creality gets their quality up to standard for that kind of pricing.
Thank you.
You're welcome, I hope it helped.
Hi. I clean the glue stick off my K1 build plate after every 3D print, warm soppy water using a new sponge, which I only use for that purpose. Cheers
You're better than I am, I usually add a few layers before I clean it off.
@@NeedItMakeIt thank you. I was told the more layers of glue stick can give bad prints, but, I like a clean surface before I start a new print, with a neat layer of glue stick, only where the print is. Nice video by the way, take care.
What about granite? Wouldn't granite be a good bed plate (instead of aluminum)?
What happens if you add glaß or mirror on the thin aluminum plate. Old CR-10 trick to fix warped beds. I also use better after market build surfaces.
It's a good question,, with these printers, we'd just need a way to attach the glass to the bed without anything coming into a printable area which should be easy enough. Heating would be slower, but it is with the soaking method anyway. The weight would be more, so that's a consideration with lots of hops/z moves, possible affecting longevity and wear of those z nuts.
You skip over the 'if you have access to your configuration file you can change the default bed temp'. How do you get access to change that and what software are you using to see the bed mesh?
You'd need to root your printer, I have a video on that if you need to do it.
Personally I run a bed mesh at the desired temperature for each material, then save each mesh with a different name. Then in my slicer settings I add custom gcode to each material to load the correct mesh. Saves me from having to heat soak and rerun a bed mesh before every print.
Yup, that's a good method. It would seem that the bed continues to change shape for up to 20 minutes after reaching the temperature so that's a good way to save some time and I think as long as you're not moving the printer it would work well. I have another video set to release tomorrow morning to show an option that's simple for anyone to do automatically and that includes without having to root.
At least we can see what's happening and we can compensate for it now, I now there were a lot of people struggling with this issue.
Thanks❤
HI. In your opinion, if you remove the magnet and put a 3 mm thick mirror on top of the aluminum plate and then buy a new magnetic plate, it won't solve the problem? the mirror should be much more planar. what do you say?
I think that's a great idea, someone else mentioned that they've done this, but they've added a mag plate to the top of the glass as well, it's a lot of added weight, and it could impact the sensors below the bed for probing. Borosilicate glass I think is the best for 3D printing, but I'm not sure if it's available in the sizes we'd need, maybe it could be cut and shaped at home?
I am working with a company to try and get a thicker aluminum plate to market which should solve the problem, or at least minimize it.
Can I just use heat gun to expedite this goal? Or any other bed recommendations for replacement?
I have a follow up video to this one called "Let it Soak" check that one out because it pretty much solves it for everyone. You need to wait a little bit, but it's automated.
Hello Mike, do you still using those bed shims / spacer to help bed leveling?
Hi, yes, I use the shims for both the K1 and the Max, its just a lot easier to do it this way than to try taking the bottom off and adjusting and then go through the leveling process again and again and.... well you get the idea. They're simple and they do the job, they just need to be made from ABS or you can even make them from another shim material manually, some people even use washers. I tried washers, but they were so hard to get into position, it didn't seem like a good idea to offer to everyone out there with these problems.
I use a cube witout infll,top and botom for calibrate flow , or line with , pint with 1 wall of yuo nozzle desire size (0.4 mm ) mesure it and take the media *sum all 4 and divide by 4, then calculate the flow)
would you please share this Stl bed level test file?
good job on the video, when you are around your max try and push the top while door is open and while pushing close the door, cast frame is more of a look and advertisement thing rather than a strong frame! i have k1 and max both frames move like hell, max moves around 2/3mm to the point that i cant close door if i push it, I know sounds like stupidity but because i have to move my max around i noticed that i get bad results after setting everything up and then moving it around as my floor isn't straight......
You're probably right, it certainly looks good, but the connections between posts and the top frame are minimal. It would have been better to have some kind of more substantial overlap of the cast top and bottom and those vertical posts. With a big printer like that, the frame twist is going to happen, that includes some of my largest cast iron tools. We could weld up a steel frame I suppose for our printer, though I'm sure it would transfer lots of vibrations, it would be nice and stiff.
Thanks for the info. Could you please do a video showing how to increase wall thickness in creality print, as there is no such selection like there is in cura. Thanks.
Hmmmm... I'd have to take a look. There is a slider to open up the advanced settings, there should be options there somewhere since it's pretty standard for a slicer to have those.
@@NeedItMakeIt Yes, i thought it would be in there as well, but it's not. I have been through all the advanced settings, and can't find wall thickness anywhere.
@@69Atho Okay, I had a look and I've found the areas. You need to turn on advanced and then you need to type in the search for 'WIDTH'. You'll look under the tap for Extruder and they should be in that area. I'd recommend using Orca Slicer instead of Creality Print, but this will get you what you need.
@@NeedItMakeIt Ok, i will have a look. Thanks for your help.
On my K1 Max, I also discovered that even slight pressure up or down on the back corners of the build plate can warp the plate. I'm not sure if it's moving the bed or the mounts, but it did show up in my bed meshes.
That's a good point, the plate being thin and not supported on those back corners will cause it to have quite a bit of flex, I'll have to check that as well. I think maybe that's part of the reason that the probing is so slow, a fast probe might deflect it before the measurement is taken.
@@NeedItMakeIt While I don't recommend it, once I realized I had accidentally caused the already-bad back corner droop I had to get worse, I took a shot at "correcting" it. It took a few iterations, but I was able to nudge it into a better position than it had to begin with. While that's great, I'm not sure what long term effects there may be. But I'll certainly be extra careful with how much pressure I put on the plate from now on. It doesn't really take much to cause a big change in the mesh.
@@timcox3856 I'll do some testing over the next few days I can closely watch the back corners while probing to see if there is movement during the probe or during printing. Either the hot plate or the steel frame below are too thin over that distance it would seem.
@@NeedItMakeIt Awesome! For me, I alternated between pushing down and pulling up the corner sightly until it reached a better mesh. I still don't think it's a good idea, but I was curious if that would alter the mesh, and it did! It really didn't take much force either. I'd say it's not a good "fix" for a warped bed though. It's certainly possible to make things worse than better. But I think it would be valuable for people to know how little force it takes, and to be careful with the force you put on your plate.
@@timcox3856 That's so strange. Does your bed also warp mainly in one direction? I looked at the heating pad below and I see that the elements travel in one direction aligned with the direction of the "wave" or dipping. I also think the sticker magnet may have something to do with it. What I thought might be a good solution is to buy a 2nd plate and bond the two together with a high temp epoxy, but it's probably not as good as having one solid piece. I'll be very cautious to not put too much pressure on mine, I was pushing down a bit on the back corner the other day to see how much movement there was.
Going crazy trying to get this printer to work. Do you need to root the printer to change the default calibration temperature of the bed?
Yes you will. I have a video on how to root it, but if you have any trouble, let me know. I also have a follow up video about how to get even better results on that first layer video is called 'LET IT SOAK' you can actually use the info in the description of that video and paste it into Creality print and you should get better results right away. Let me know if you need any more help.
That’s a great overview of the issue. It does make sense. I haven’t root my K1 max yet, I’ve heard this makes you loose your warranty. Is it possible to change the configuration page without rooting? How to access that?
I have a solution that should help with that without having to root your printer. It should be release by mid-week next week or sooner if I can finish it up in time!
@@NeedItMakeIt thanks for the reply. I ended up rooting my K1. I also put some silicon plugs under the build plate and manually level the bed. It look much better now.
@@brguns That's the best way, it opens up so many more possibilities with it.
@@NeedItMakeIt unfortunately I can’t have a good first layer covering all plate.
I rooted, put silicon spacers under the plate, leveled the bed properly (range of less than 0.3), installed kamp and leave the bed heating for 10min prior printing. But the layer has flaws in some areas.
@@brguns It's possible that the bed is warped just a bit too much for it to be compensated for, how much is your bed off by? I don't worry about mine anymore with KAMP, but before I used it, there was one spot that wasn't quite perfect.
I will update everyone on the status of the thicker plate, that's the best final solution out there, I just need to make sure that it 100% works before I go and say it's G2G. It would not be a good day if people shelled out the money and didn't get the results they were looking for.
Also, I wonder what would happen if you only had the bed screwed tight to one corner and the other three corners could float. Then when you have expansion it won't buckle.
That seems to be a good option, if you could just snug it down enough to allow enough movement but also to keep it in contact with the standoff without vibrating, that would probably help. The Max has a Nylon locknut below, that would work, the K1 smaller printer doesn't have that and it would want to make it's way out through vibration. It would probably need a dab of of Locktite. Apparently the 4 point mounting is the problem, a better system is 3 point according to the people who make upgraded beds.
I have an issue with my k1 all of the sudden started to get bad first layers, i found out it’s printing the first layer too close to the nozzle, every time i start a print i have to the expert mode setting and set the z offset down to 0.250, i don’t understand why the automatic z offset after calibration is so close to the bed
It might be worth doing a factory reset, something is a bit fishy there. Something in the CFG is fouled up or the sensors below the bed aren't working correctly.
What program are you using for the bed mesh data you show towards the beginning?
Those are either Fluidd or Mainsail, if you haven't already rooted, you can find the info here czcams.com/video/YG34iK5wb14/video.html. You can also view through the Creality UI, which is your printer's IP address in your search bar.
I have adjusted the bed temperature to 98 and the extruder temperature to 270 (including g28) in the param config but when I run KAMP the extruder temperature is 180 and the bed temperature is 98. What should I do to make the temperature? The extruder is exactly what I wanted.
It sounds like everything is correct. The nozzle must be cool enough, if it's not you'll have filament oozing out while it's trying to probe and that's not going to give good results.
Ok so when you preheat and do the mesh is that the bed temp you use during the printing?
I have a video set for tomorrow morning to show everyone how to do it, and it's a lot easier than I thought it would be. To do it manually, you should pre-heat to the bed temp you're printing with, if you're using PLA, 60, PETG 80, ABS 100 etc. I've found that the pre-heat should be around 10 minutes minimum for ABS, but the lower temps could do with a little less pre-heating time. It might make sense and keep things simple to do 60=6mins 80=8mins.
The issue my K1 Max seems to have is the home z level varies wildly between prints, which means the z-offset changes between prints. I saw this in the PROBE_ACCURACY test. Right now, I'm testing a pre-print calibration that homes z until it gets a stable z level before continuing. That's allowed the z-offset to be consistent, and working well so far.
It's hard to say if your bed goes the same way as mine does, but I can see that any movement in the bed will cause the home point to be off. I was getting similar results and it was frustrating to see each print being a little different. I think if you can pre-heat for 10 mins, you'll be far better off. I will say that I waited another 20 minutes after I finished the video and the bed continued to settle a bit more, it was only 0.003" or .07mm, it's not much, but it doesn't help that it continues to change shape after that long. I'm investigating this more, but I think the final solution is a thicker plate. I'm working with a company to help them to get a product out to us, hopefully they can make it happen.
@@NeedItMakeIt All that is needed is MIC6 cast tooling plate cut to size. Cheap, comes in 1/4"/6mm thickness, and flat as hell. I've used it on custom builds many times.
@@NeedItMakeIt I'll try running the Klipper PROBE_ACCURACY test again with running the bed heater first. I'd also be curious what others with a K1 Max get on that test. YT doesn't allow links, but you can find more info about that test in the Klipper docs.
Exactly. Running the PROBE_ACCURACY macro made it clear that the probe on my K1 Max is very innacurate. Now I've changed all the macros to run a G28 only after generating the bed mesh. My START_PRINT and END_PRINT macros are completly custom at this point as I don't turn off the step motors at any point and I've slowed down the bed speed before and after printing (so it doesn't skip steps). This way, I can adjust the z-offset only one time and it will keep it that way for the rest of day. I've also been pre-heating the bed for some weeks now and I keep the bed hot if I'm doing many prints as not to mess with bed geometry.
Such as hassle for a newbie like me starting at 3D printing. Luckly I know my ways around programming, Unix and electronics.
@@hermanzaumget a cartographer
I turned on KAMP, but when the printer runs, it still checks the entire bed. When you power off does it lose the setting? One of these videos, I was watching someone in teh comments mentioned better machines beds that are super flat ( 3rd party). have you heard of those?
You'll need to make sure to have Exclude parts turned on and I think Label parts, though Label may not actually be used there, it could be more for us when we want to do a part cancel manually. If you don't have these on, it'll auto-probe the entire surface.
I'm working with a company to provide an option for a swap-out bed for something thicker, hopefully we can get something whipped up soon for a final solution for everyone who needs or wants it.
This is about the 4th or fifth video of yours I have watched and enjoyed very much, I always learn "almost" enough to solve my concern. However, not being a Unix kinda guy, I don't know how to get around too much in the config files, in fact, I don't know where they are located. I have rooted my printer but seem to get overwhelmed by my lack of understanding of the file system. I noticed several times that you have been asked how to access these files, but you or anyone else did not answer.
So, I will ask once again how can I access these configuration files for the printer for Fluidd and for Mainsail? An answer will earn you a subscription.
LOL. Sure no problem. Have you rooted your printer? You'll need to do that first, there is a walkthrough here to do that:
github.com/Guilouz/Creality-K1-and-K1-Max/wiki/SSH-Connection
Start at downloading Mobaxterm, it allows you to access your printer directly by using the IP address for it, and the password that appears on the printer's screen after you say 'I give permission to root'.
And then do this part:
github.com/Guilouz/Creality-K1-and-K1-Max/wiki/Helper-Script-Installation
You'll need to install all critical functions on your Printer (items will be listed from 1-8) I'd install each of them.
What I can do is create a short video showing how to do this if that's helpful. It's probably one of the best things you can do with it, but it can be a little daunting if you're new at it.
Do you have a video that shows set up of KAMP? I have followed a few on CZcams, but every time I install it, my K1 just probes the whole bed every print instead of just doing the smaller area. Also, do you go over how to fix the "firmware retraction" error in KAMP?
The first time I tried it, I made the mistake of trying to manually implement it, that didn't work so I tried to do it through the helper automation. Well mixing the two was a bad idea. I eventually got it working, but it's best to start with a clean slate and use the helper script method. Which is as simple as installing it through the SSH menu, #9.
I can certainly make a video on it.
Also just a quick note, you need to make sure to checkbox 'Exclude Parts' and 'Label Parts' without those, it'll probe the entire bed each time.
I was also getting some error messages, but it was because I tried to do the silly manual method and when that didn't work, I used the automated method. If this is something like what you did, try starting over and resetting it to factory first and then go through the Rooting SSH Moonraker... method.
@@NeedItMakeItKAMP sounds really convenient, if you make a video on how to install it on the K1 I would definitely watch it !
@@mkabakian It's a really snazzy feature, I just wish the mesh looked a bit better, it makes it looks so terrible even though the differences in the mesh are 0.01mm+/-. In any case it works really well.
I'll make a video on how to do the install, it'll be short and sweet. The beauty of having an open source setup, you can take advantage of the newest community created features.
I followed the guide to root my K1 Max, but I’m having trouble with opening up the Fluidd interface. I type in the ip address for my printer with the :4408 behind it and it doesn’t work. Any idea how to get it to work for me?
I'd go through the old restart process first, turn off your printer, back on, check your IP address again to make sure it hasn't changed, they are not static normally so they can change when you least suspect it. If that doesn't work, I'd re-install the Fluidd interface, but you can also try Mainsail with :4409, if both don't work, you'd really want to go through the install process again because something didn't work correctly. Sometimes your WIFI connection on the printer will not work, mine is a good example in my shop where the signal isn't great, so that can also be a problem on occasion. Let me know!
What if you changed the bed to steel? Steel has a much lower thermal expansion rate. And if you're already heat soaking for 10min the extra time to soak steel won't really impact times that much?
but steel is way heavier for the motor
@@denniss4212 These are ball screws, unless they way undersized the motors, it shouldn't matter. Screws do such a good job of converting torque to thrust, I'd bet the motors wouldn't even notice. Unless you went way overboard and did too thick of a steel. You could even do a better ground aluminum plate too. Just anything that is flatter than what they have on there. Seems like the stock platform is too thin, so prone to warping.
@needitmakeit Is there a company that makes thicker plates for printers? Id get one for my K1.
There is one and they do make upgrades for the K1, but they don't yet have one for the Max, I'm trying to help them to get the info they need to produce one for the Max as well, I'd buy one. The Max is a little harder because of the scanner setup for the Max and increasing the thickness could cause a problem or need to adjust the laser info in the config/json files within the printer. You can check out GulfCoast Robotics. They should have an option for the K1, I think it may be back in-stock if not now in a few days. gulfcoast-robotics.com/products/cast-aluminum-heated-bed-upgrade-for-creality-k1-3d-printers?variant=40637238575186
@@NeedItMakeIt Excellent, sir. Thank you for the reply and the link. Heading there now.
@@pauljrobertss If you manage to get your hands on one, I'm very interested to know what you think. I'll likely upgrade both my K1 and Max, but I want to do the Max first because it was such an issue. I'm also trying to see if the silicone heating pad is reusable, it looks like the adhesive is good to 200+C so a heat gun to the right temp may do the job and a replacement adhesive sheet could be added possibly?
@@NeedItMakeIt Oh im getting it. Still out of stock, so maybe stock will arrive next week. On the email alert. When i get it, ill shoot a video of the parts and install.
It comes with a new heat mat. Curiouse if need to bother removing the old one. Ill hit you up here once their site lets me place the order.
@@pauljrobertss Yeah, I see it says the 16th when stock comes in, well maybe someone needs to press a button to say it's arrived. I can always follow up with them, I have a contact there and I'm sure they'd want the business. Cool, yeah, I'd like to see what it looks like and how easy the install is. I think from what I've read and seen the plate thickness is the most important factor in reduction of warpage, it will heat slower, which I think also helps, it will probably even out any hot/cool spots as well.
Where can i find that test print for 1 layer?
I've placed it in my channel drive, you should be able to download it here drive.google.com/file/d/1i2eYDz_OIlIC5lIwhb8o9m9-jumgPt0u/view?usp=sharing
So how to access my configuration file? 3:40
Hey, tell me why, during calibration, the table and nozzle cool down and do not maintain the set temperature? I did everything just like in the video! I used google translator
That's right, this is on purpose so that filament doesn't ooze out of the nozzle and cause problems during the probing sequence
@@NeedItMakeItThe bed also cools down, the set temperature is not maintained during kamp calibration.
@@verygood634 I think that it is cooling because the AUX fan comes on full blast to quickly cool the nozzle, it should only be about 1-2 degrees, this would be normal.
This also bugs me the heating up then cooling down to do the mesh then heat up again, if we are going to do a mesh for every print wouldn’t it make sense to somehow automatically mesh at the temp your going to print at?
If I could find a high quality drop in thicker build plate I would buy it in a heartbeat. KAMP doesn't work on my k1 max unless the print has the same x and y dimensions. It always errors out and makes the printer restart after probing. It is pretty useless on the k1 series.
I'm working on that solution with a company called GulfCoast Robotics, we'll see if we can bring a high quality solution to everyone that wants it.
If you're running Bicubic probing I've had the same trouble, it doesn't work with KAMP on the Max, it does seem to work on the Regular K1 though... strange as it is. I had to change my Max back to using Lagrange. I haven't been able to figure it out yet but I'll keep working at it.
I tried putting a glass sheet over the heated plate, and glued a pei sheet metal over the glass, no missed first layers anymore.
Oh cool, and did you need to adjust any of the sensors for probing?
@@NeedItMakeIt no, since the printer uses the induction sensor, it will sense the flex steel plate over the glass.
@@kayquexavier Which printer do you have?
@@NeedItMakeIt atm a modified anet a8
@@kayquexavier I'd like to see a pic of that, I started with an Anet A8 and it's quite a wobbly mess, it worked, but not too well.
I would have built my 3D-printer bed using high-temperalure-strength cast iron, but I use Prusa MK4 :))
Now that's something that I haven't heard of. That would be a heavy bed for certain. I guess in that approach you'd want to move the gantry in the Z, like a Voron 2... It would also take about 3x longer to heat up. Too bad we can't sandwich the heater within a core instead of having it attached to only the bottom; like we'd do with in-floor-heating.
@@NeedItMakeIt You can keep the Z-axis motion for your bed, but it might not be the best choice, but not The Y-axis due to the required fast movements of a highly internal bed.
Hypothetically, you can embed a nickel-chromium heating element, or we can steal some principles from warm floor designers and use water inside a cast iron or even concrete instead of Iron. Water tubing inside concrete might be suitable. A heated chamber is also helpful for engineering materials, but Iron can be the heat source for such a chamber. Everything I said is highly questionable. I may have gone too far with my suggestion. It's more reasonable to produce judgments after some computations.
It's just a bit of fantasy/dreaming on my end.
@@TShevProject I really like your thought process; you can start with something that might seem way out there and we can problem solve or remove things from the possible solutions until we come to a final solution. I think your approach is one of the best ways to not limit ourselves to ordinary solutions.
I suppose in the end, the most cost effective method is the simple alum. plate with an element attached to one side. I'd imaging that there would be better alloys for it also, but they'll be more $$ to use as well. There is always a better way, but we'd have to pay for it, and most people just won't want to pay.
It's too bad they couldn't cast the alum plate to have some webbing structure like they do with cast iron plates. The elements would need to be placed between the webbing, but it seems like it could work and also keep the weight down.
I have some casting equipment, I'm willing to try to see if I can do it in my home shop. The quality of my aluminum is unknown, but it can be proof of concept at least.
7:19 ❤
She was enjoying watching the print, but I put her outside to be safe.
Creality just lost another non tinker inclined potential customer.
Its rather puzzling that creality is using these thin aluminum beds still. 0.5, or .7 variance for a mesh is trully unacceptable. If im using a smooth pei on my voron with a scanning beacon with a 25x25 mesh, im getting right around 0.02 variance, and with a textured sheet, I get around 0.1. Its not even than expensive to get a surface plate for a machine that size. It was for my big 600x600 and 500x500 machines and the variance on those on a smooth surface is right at 0.05, and obviously pre-heat. Goes without saying. But the point is using cast, and machined, not rolled aluminum. Cast doesnt deform weird like rolled does.
Perfect, I while doing the video I took a look at Voron specs and saw that they're calling for between 1/4" and 5/16" thick cast plates, and there are good reasons for it. If Cast is the way to go, I want to try to cast my own, I can start with one for my K1 smaller printer and move up to the Max. I have so much aluminum I've been saving up for a worthy project, this could be the one! I've been thinking about creating a webbed structure to keep it light, and also have some structure as well. I wonder how I could heat it with webbing inside?
How about using glass, my printer has glass and it is very close perfect.
Someone mentioned that they are using glass. It's possible as long as the sensors aren't impacted, I think it's a great idea though. The glass will flex over that distance, but it will likely level out those low and high spots a bit as well. Glass worked before I think it can work again. Borosilicate maybe, not impacted much by temperatures and it is really tough.
For those that love to fiddle with stuff, this is great. For those like me that want an appliance, this is a big red flag. Thanks for taking the time to show whats going on.
For sure, personally I enjoy a good problem to solve but I'd prefer to work on my own projects. I hope that they see the video and find a solution to it from the factory and we can move on to other things. I guess we'll have to see. In the meantime I'll come up with some other simple options for people to be able to get the best results with this printer. There are a few things we can do to have it work automatically and still give us really good first layers.
Am I wrong thinking that this makes the K1 series essentially defective?
It's required on pretty much all printers for the best results. The issue isn't isolated to Creality. Printers with beds of around 250x250mm and smaller can get away with not heat soaking the bed for very long such that they can look like they're doing something special, but in reality they're not. It's just physics. The larger the print bed, the longer it takes for the heat to soak fully and for the bed plate to stabilise and stop moving/warping.
The K1 printer isn't impacted quite as much, the smaller bed makes it far less likely, also the bed heats quite a bit slower. I think that the K1 Max is a different animal. With the bigger bed, the faster heating and the same thickness of plate, it seems that the combination of these things helps to cause this problem. If they slow the heating down, it probably would help a lot, if they use a thicker plate it would be the best solution I believe. If you look to the Voron printers, they're using 1/4" or 5/16" (6-8mm), not 3mm that Creality has used. I think this is an oversight by Creality and that they need to adjust it for any new printers.
For anyone with a printer already, maybe Creality can add a pause of 5 minutes before probing into the firmware, that would help a lot.
Положил стекло 4мм сверху и забыл про все проблемы.
Спасибо. Более или мение понятно. Спасибо google
Rather hilarious that you have to pre-heat the bed for 10 minutes before printing... extending the printing time to comparable Ender3's... Impressive gain of time really... What's the point of having a faster printer then?
In a previous video I showed that this printer uses a different setup for the heater, it heats quite a bit quicker than other printers, unfortunately I think that the faster heating and the thin plate work together to cause this deformation. Slowing it down would set the heating to about the same time as other printers.
The printer itself will make a print 4-5 times faster than a stock Ender 3 printer with less issues overall. These Core XY Printers are very speedy, but there are obvious still some things to workout to make sure we can get that good first layer to make sure our prints actually turn out.
Yet its supposed to print out of the box. Junk.
i thought the best option was to sell it and get a machine that works out the box .. enough of copying creality you have lost many customers
Yup, that's an option I think a lot of people seem to want to take. The only printer that's worked out of the box 100% for my is the Bambu X1C, I couldn't even believe it at the time. But that printer is quite expensive. I like to see good competition and the integration of all of the newest features. I'm looking forward to seeing what the next generation of printers looks like. IDEX would be amazing even one extra head would make a lot of difference (two heads....)
Which printers do you find are best out-of-the-box. I guess Voron printers can't count on that list.
Geezus this is a good reason to not buy a K1. They need a thicker bed.
The smaller K1 is fine as-is, but the bigger Max needs a thicker bed. If you look to the Voron team's designs their printers this size have much thicker hot plates. between 1/4" and 5/16", and there is definitely a reason for it. The downside of course is the slower heating... but since that's the way we can get around the problem, it'd be a wash. I think thicker plate is the best solution here. Maybe a different material would work too, I'm sure some metallurgist would have the right mix for the best option.
@@NeedItMakeIt good opportunity for an aftermarket machined bed kit
@@NaughtyGoatFarm You got it. I'd also like to see them add a filament runout sensor at the extruder as well, that was a good call by the Bambu team, it would make refilling and color changes so much better with the K1 printers.
@@NeedItMakeItOK are you up for this as a project? I wonder what it would cost to have a replacement bed machined?
Do this first...get a different printer. You're welcome!
OMG, that background “music” is insanely distracting. Why do you think it’s even necessary?
Really? That's the first I've heard anyone mention it. I can tone it down or see about remove it. In past I would add it because in my shop there are always sounds that are hard to remove; essentially they are in to mask the sounds that would otherwise take me several hours to minimize.
@@NeedItMakeIt Could be because I was watching on an iPad, and the speakers aren't huge. Something about the percussion sounded like water dripping somewhere nearby - took me a minute to even realize that it was part of the audio.
Aside from the music, though, great video! I learned a lot, so thanks for that.
@@ioscaleb I'll keep it in mind, I can't tell you how many hours I've spent editing video to sound good (It never did). I ended up buying the Rode Wireless ME mics and it changed everything. It's not perfect, but for my shop, it'll do just fine. I can tone down or remove the music or pick a different song with less water dripping like sounds... that'd be a bit like torture.
I'm glad you like the rest of the video though, lots more to come!