Ben-Dov and Jodorowsky TdM's (CBD)
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 12. 2017
- Exploring the Yoav Ben-Dov and Jodorowsky versions of the Tarot de Marseille:
Ben-Dov's website: www.cbdtarot.com/the-cards/
Campoin/Jodorowsky: en.camoin.com/tarot/Tarot-Mar...
My book: amzn.to/2j0eIaL
Find me: www.curiousjourneytarot.weebly...
Book a reading: etsy.me/2Ah3HvC
I actually went from Jodorowsky to Yoav Ben Dov and it was such a relief. I felt defeated by J's pretentious rambling and to go to Ben Dov who is so succinct and down to earth was such a pleasure. thanks for the vid
Jodorowsky is a really, really weird person. After watching several of his interviews and almost all of his movies, I think he has a kind soul and that he's in general not that motivated by things such as greed or fame. I mean, his movies are literally impossible to sell for a profit, and (except for books) his terapeutical is always free. He has a very unique vision, he's very sure of himself and has a strong personality, so it's evident why he comes off as weird.
I think he's not afraid of speaking his mind (to the point of sounding rude at times) and that he has egotistical tendencies. I can understand that. Growing up in a dysfunctional family in a nowhere town, you kinda have to put all your efforts into believing in yourself, even to the point of being egotistical. It's a way of surviving psychological.
I hope that his eccentric personality doesn't deter anyone into discovering his thought and work. If there's an artist that made me understand and believe that art can achieve ANYTHING, it's Jodorowsky
Wow, man. Just came across your channel. Really thorough, have the jodorowsky deck as well as both books, definitely agree with your points of view. Very much look forward to checking out your other material. Fantastic stuff, thanks!
Awe thanks so much! I'm glad you like it. Thanks for being here!
This video brings me great relief, Tom! After much deliberation and attempted online comparisons, I recently invested in the Ben Dov deck and book, and also in your own ‘Tarot on Earth’. They should all be arriving imminently! 🤩
This video more than reassures me that I made the right choice...
Ah, good! I'm glad I was able to assuage your anxiety. 😊 The differences ultimately are pretty slight, but I just feel since I've gotten the CBD that I can just feel Ben-Dov's generosity of spirit in the deck--even if it's not his original independently published one. I hope you like Tarot on Earth! And if you want company while you work through it, we've got a Facebook group "Tarot on Earth Study Group" that you can join if you're on that platform!
Excellent! I'll definitely check that out. The book should arrive today, so that's very timely...
Thank you for this comparison. What it reveals (and does not reveal) tells me what I needed to know.
Glad it helped!
Yay! Since you made a statement about preferring one over the other a while back, I've been scouring the interwebs about the differences and preferences. Thanks for discussing this. ^_^
My pleasure!! Glad this was helpful!! :-)
I enjoyed this video and especially your treatment of the “professional secret” claimed by Jodorowsky and Camoin. There are parts of Jodorowskys work and reading style that I really love but things he has shared about himself during interviews which make me, as a woman, feel very conflicted about his work.
You truly can feel the love and generosity of spirit in the CBD deck. Having also watched the videos of Yoav Ben-Dov on his website, I really do feel his openness of Spirit. You can just feel that he was a good guy.
Just to confirm, you did say the two books by Ben-Dov are one and the same, right? Thank you so much Tom, for a wonderful comparison of these two decks.
I totally agree -- yes. I don't know much about Jodo's personal life, but maybe that's a good thing -- I already am not a fan. Yes, the two Ben-Dov books are the same. The Llewellyn one is more expensively produced and in color, but they're the same.
I did not know his story until a friend told me that he publicly said in an interview that he violated someone for a movie. I did my research and it was true. I’m trying to keep my wording sensitive for folks who get triggered. I was so enraptured with how he read cards...ugh.
On another note, Yves Reynaud and Pablo Robledo and Il Meneghello produce wonderful decks and my conversations online with Pablo have shown me a genuine humility of spirit. He’s a very nice guy.
Thanks again for your post.
Victoria Ferrell: Obviously I don’t know the truth, but Jodorowsky said fairly recently that what he claimed about that scene was for the sake of shock for publicity, and that would certainly fit with his highly provocative and iconoclastic style. He also explained that there was a large film crew present who would certainly have intervened if he had truly done what he claimed. Jodorowsky said last year that he regrets that he used a fictional statement about violence toward women as a publicity tool.
The scene as shown in my copy shows a brief tussle, with Mara Lorenzio’s clothes being torn off and a close-up of her face, some nudity but nothing more, and Jodorowsky remains fully clothed. The voices and shouting are dubbed on, and watched with the sound off it becomes clear they are acting. Of course one would like to hear Lorenzio’s recollections too but she has never commented publicly, as far as I know.
Victoria I worked with Jodorowsky's son Cristobal during 7 years and yes I can understand that feeling as a woman. Think that their background it's latinoamericano and there is an intrinsically macho man inside of them ... but, they are really very nice persons, very loving and respectful ( at least they do their best to overcome their culture even is sometimes they might fall from grace hahaha). At the end all masters, teachers and gurus have their own ghosts in the wardrobe. Let's take the good, what's useful for us and than send them compassion for what they still have to lear :-)
Mucho love, dear
Yeah let's help them to "overcome their culture" ! Seems like we are good at being judge and party !
Sorry I know this is an older video, but I am just starting to get into Marseille and I found this very helpful. I appreciate your mild...distaste? for some of Jodoroesky's words. He is clearly very knowledgable and has a lot to offer but I found him to be a bit arrogant or elitist and it got up my nose.
YES!!! Couldn't agree more!
At some point of his life he was elitist with with the knowledge but now he and his sons they offer all their legacy through the books and conferences. He has THE PERSONALITY! He is the man. He is Alejandro Jodorowsky i allow him to do and say everything he wants. He has power on his personality i can feel that everytime he speaks. i totally love him. for me doesnt mean that he is arrogant
@@Augusto.Scorpio i think that means that you excuse his arrogance. Rather than that he is not.
Excellent video, you very clearly explained and demonstrated the differences and similarities between these two decks. I have both, I just got the CBD Tarot the other day and am very pleased with it, I like the card stock better than the glossiness of the Jodorowsky, though both decks shuffle well. I appreciate your generous videos and will be ordering your book in the near future.
Thanks, Bob! I appreciate that--and thanks for watching! :-)
I loved your video! Thanks a lot!
Hi Tom, I am Nova, I have recently discovered your awesome channel and been binge watching 😅Just wanted to say hello, and thank you so much for your informative, fun and entertaining content. I am a big fan of Marseille . Just got your deck and enjoying it so much. Im also in the very beginning process of creating a Marseille deck. and will send you a copy when it's out, as a gift of appreciation for your content. 💙🙏🏻
Very interesting video, thanks for sharing your insights.
You sold me at “Edward Waite-ing the deck” 😂 Says so much without saying a ton 😂😂😂❤
Rider-Waiting best word of the year!
I LOVE your sweater
Thanks for doing this video, Tom! I was the one who requested it during Kelly's live chat. I think the small differences do matter. I don't see the purpose in adding in symbols and symbology in Marseille decks, if they don't belong there. Happy New Year!
I appreciate your in depth videos on everything Marseilles related!! Thank you. 🙏🏼
Ah, thanks for that! I am so bad at remembering things during those chats!! I agree with you. The added stuff just seems superfluous to me! :-)
Thank you so much 🙏🙏🙏
This is your best video.More biking videos pleeeeze.
outstanding....big thanks
thank you for your sharing dear Tom! love your comments. Suzanne bernardin version of tarot marseille inspired Jodorowsky to add the egg in the papesse. Just to say....cause me too i looked for it in many decks....I actually happened to have a version of the bernardin and you can distinguish a shape, (not an egg thought) behind the papesse. :-)))) I read in an article that this card inspired JOdo for the egg shape.
Thank you for this comparison. I received the CBD Tarot today and did a comparison with the Jodorowsky TdM. I found the expressions on the figures in the CBD tarot much more agreeable. The people in the Jodorowsky deck looked much more agressive by comparison.
Right? It's really subtle, but the CBD folks look a little more open.
Jodorowsky's The Way of Tarot is a must read imho; Tarot Revelations by Joseph Campbell, to boot. I need a Green Box Marseille . . . 12:29 Always love the long spoon 0/The Fool carries over his shoulder. Dark Age days . . .
Thanks for the Video! I watched it the whole way through so that should give you some good Watch Time! 👍
❤️ Thanks!!
Hi Tom… I just downloaded your big spreadsheet. Nice work! Super useful! This is an older video of yours; thought you might like to hear your spreadsheet is starting getting use.
Great video btw!
Hello thank Dr, Marcus spell caster who could help me cast a spell to bring it my ex back send him a message now through what ,ssapp +13094666783
I have never noticed those bells on the Fools coat...Im shocked!
nice sweater.
Salut à vous !
Depuis quelques jours je m’intéresse au tarot sur le plan iconographique et historique, suite à la découverte de la proposition de restitution par Jodorowsky. J’ai donc remonté (Marteau, Conver, Chosson, Madenié, Dodal, Rolichon, Noblet, Viéville...) jusqu’à retrouver l’origine de détails qui m’intriguaient. Cependant, il y en a toujours quelques uns qui me laissent perplexe :
-La boule blanche et bleue sur la robe du pape, entre les disciples.
-Le motif au cou de la tempérence.
-La couleur jaune d’un des deux liquides versés par l’étoile semble provenir de Rolichon, or l’original était en noir et blanc, et a été colorisé dans les années 90!
-Et enfin, l’escalier et la porte sur la maison dieu???
Que dit Jodorowsky dans son livre à propos de ces « détails »? Cite-t-il d’autres tarots, ou anciens moules de cartiers...? Je ne sais pas trop à qui m’adresser, mes recherches sur le net sont toujours infructueuses. Je rappelle que je m’intéresse à l’histoire de l’iconographie, pas aux interprétations psycho-spirituelles. Si vous pouvez me mettre sur la piste, je vous en serais bien reconnaissant !
Bravo et Merci pour votre travail.
16:05 Yeah like for example, you see the color purple in the jodorowsky-camoin deck. Purple was associated in history with royalty, and the highest level of synergy, I suppose. You can see that there in the justice card, and in the flowers in the hair, on the lovers card that you showed earlier
Hi, Tom! Question for the TDM expert: Somebody showed me a picture of a Marseile deck that has a very particular color scheme-- only brown, a rich brown, marroon I would say, and orange and yellows. I know I have seen it before on CZcams but I can't recall where..does the description ring a bell with you? It's not an oversized deck, regular size, no gilded edges but I don't know what the backs like like. I appreciate your help. Thank you🙏
Hmmmmmmm it’s not ringing a bell. 😬
Did you find the deck in the meantime?
Could that be the Spanish Tarot?
Could you do a comparison of the CBD and the Millennium Edition? I keep going back and forth on getting the M.E. but I already have the CBD so I can’t make up my mind... LOL I haven’t been able to find a side by side anywhere on here and I think it would be interesting.
I'll do my best. They're really very similar. If it helps, I find the CBD exponentially easier to work with because the Millennium card stock is lovely but thick.
I totally agree with you about the Jodorowsky TdM book and deck.
Have you read the book by Jean-Michel David "Reading the Marseille Tarot"....? It's goooood xxx
YES! I love JMD's book! I think it's my favorite. In fact, I may take it down from the shelf and work with it again. I adored it.
I'm about a 1/4 of the way through it... It's just so engaging
Thanks for doing this, love both authors and have the Camoin deck. Interesting to see the comparison of the decks.😊
My pleasure!! :-)
O taro de Jodorowsky tem as cores vivas . Compare com o taro Millennium também .
I am a beginner to tarot, having got my deck last September. I got the cbd deck, since that's the only one available on amazon, but am in the middle of jodorowsky's book. Many years ago, I saw 'the holy mountain.' Have you seen that? I suppose I should read ben-dov's book after finishing jodorowsky's
The ben-dov deck uses less colors, and there are some structural differences. Though I really like the jodorowsky-camoin color scheme, I think simplicity can also be good, which might be what the ben-dov deck goes for. At some point, I'd like both decks, and I do find something mysterious about the jodorowsky-camoin deck. Having said that, the various questions I had asked the bed-dov deck did stimulate thought, which seems to be the goal
In one of jodorowsky's reading videos, he talks about not having much use for the minor arcana. And I don't think I saw him use them at all in his reading videos, that I saw. He wrote about them sort of extensively, however. I think maybe there is more use for them than he thinks
Jodorowsky deck Is powerful. Much better than the unlucky CBD
Thank you very much for the walk through. Is the background of the CBD also white? It looks kind of cream-colored or off-white on my laptop, but it might be just the nature of video/screens. -- Lauri
It is, yeah. It's pretty clean-looking. The Noblet has a creamy background color, but both of these are pretty straight up white.
Aha - great, thank you! I have Jodorowsky Camoin TdM (and Spanish TdM and Ancient Italian and Marshmallow Marseille and Tarot Noir) and was pondering getting CBD if necessary, but I will stick with J&C as my "standard study TdM" -- because if I'm going to buy another pip deck I would *much* rather spend the $$ on Vacchetta. 🤩 😘
Or the Robledo, which is also pretty pretty pretty.
Thank you.
Something I noticed in both decks is the spelling of the reyne de baton (queen of batons). It is spelt reyne de baston, which google translate interprets as the queen of fighting.
I have another deck, Piatnik Vienne, and it is spelt baton.
Have you noticed this? Could it possibly be a spelling mistake, do you think...I don't know. Or was it intentional?
Thanks!❤ could u Tell me about size? are exactly the same size? thank uu! 😊
I bought the Ben - Dov book and it's really good. Very clear and all in colour. The quality of the book itself too is beautifull and clean - cut with semi - gloss pages.
Okay so I have a question- the cbd tarot readily available is sold by US games. It looks like to me that logos are printed on all of the card faces. Can anyone confirm this? Thank you!
There is a small copyright on the face of each card.
Tom Benjamin Awh. How do you feel about decks with copyrights on the face?
Hello 😀 and which one is in your opinion more good for shuffle? I mean for being use for readings? 🤷🏽♂️
They both shuffle pretty well. The Jodorowsky is thinner cardstock, so that might be easier -- but really both shuffle really well.
@@thefoolsjournal i bought the 2 and the "Ancien Tarot de Marseille" by Grimaud. The one with few colors that version shuffle more easly and in my opinion the cardstock is good for readings conpare with the jodorowsky and Joav bendov versions 😀 you should have to try it 😄👍🏽
@@thefoolsjournal and thank you for answer my question 🙂 you are so kind.
Hi. Is the link you provided for the Camoin/Jodorowsky deck still valid? I followed it and came upon a BUY NOW link that led me to another website where I made a purchase on May 13, 2020. I'm hoping they are legit. I just spontaneously bought it without doing too much research
Hello thank Dr, Marcus spell caster who could help me cast a spell to bring it my ex back send him a message now through what ,ssapp +13094666783
Nice video ! I prefere the Jodorowsky ;)
Thanks for the comparison. Very nicely and simple. Did you realized how many Um’s you say in this video. 😂
I've talked about it before, but "ums" are a symptom of having a fast-moving mind. I tell folks to think of it like a stutter.
Oh I understand. Guess my mind doesn’t move that fast. Good job.
Is "Marseille Tarot Revealed" just a reprint of the "Open Reading" book? I have a copy of MTR and don't want to waste money if "Open Reading" is just the same book.
Yeah. They’re the same.
@@thefoolsjournalThank you.
Those are not 'tiny, tiny differences', I think.
Jodorowsky makes a very big deal about the significance of the colors... and says these are more faithful to the older hand painted decks, that could not be reproduced by the later printing tecniques used in Convers. He says this color detail is essential to its meaning. Listening to Jodorowsky, he does come across as arrogant and certain things he says in an authoritative manner, actually seem like he pulled them out of his thumb... so different than Ben-Dov that comes across as so generous and sincere and truely smart with a kind of integrity, that is not the first impression with Jodorowsky, for me. But Jodorowsky has a very large following in Latin America... idolized in some ways be some of my south american friends. His story is an interesting one and he has certainly put in his time with the Tarot.
Not everyone in Latinoamérica likes him. In Argentina he's considered really fake. I remember seeing him doing a spiritual surgery for TV and cure the cancer in a woman. He's not well received, and his deck either. But, I think he's deck is bizarre and funny anyway.
I like the look of the cards, however for one that reads with these decks and doesn't speak French, how do you distinguish the cards from one another, especially the court cards and some of the major arcana?
Doesn't sound to me like you'd even read Jodorovsky's book.
I think he was up front that he read it sort of casually, but Jodorowsky explains how he came to the color conclusions and little additions. It wasn't him just adding things, he studied decks.
I found some of Jodorowsky's insights helpful, but at times he comes across as being ... dogmatic. And I just cannot agree with the details he decided to add to his cards. In fact I find I appreciate my CBD deck more and more as I use it. I'm awaiting Ben-Dov's book. Based on the excerpts I've read, I feel confident I'll get much more out of it than Jodorowsky's book.
Thank you so much. Thought I was a cranky lonely wench for being, shall we say, not a fan of J...yaaaay. Thanks.
Mmmmm-hmmmm. I'm right there with ya.
I'm also a cranky lonely wench in this respect Barb - I sometimes get so cranky about J I need to scream. It worries the cat, but makes me feel better
Weedborn has some very useful CBD stuff with all the supplementation I need.
What? You wrote a book?! What is the name of it? Do Tell Please.
Tarot on Earth
Lame. Worst deck I’ve ever heard of IMHO. First impression tho.
Sorry but it hurts my ears me when you pronounce "Jodorovsky" . First letter is not "jay" ! His surname in Polish is 'Chodorowski', transcripted to Spanish to "Jodorovsky'" Please listen to this translate.google.pl/#en/pl/Chodorowski
Excellent video, but for the love of god, stop saying "um"!
Would you tell someone with a stutter to stop stuttering? Because the tick is similar.