RAYMOND CARRYING, GOALIE TROUBLE, & CELEBRINI PROSPECT PROFILE - Winged Wheel Podcast - Mar. 17th
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2024
- The Detroit Red Wings look like they're going to be battling until the very end with how up & down this season has been.
Tune in as we open by discussing a disappointing loss in Hockeytown as Lalonde's Red Wings fell to the Arizona Coyotes again, including Seider's stumble, Lyon struggling, Chiarot coming to Raymond's aid, and Raymond scoring (3:55). Next, Detroit's strong rebound game against the Buffalo Sabres to break the losing streak, including great efforts from J.T. Compher, Christian Fischer, and Michael Rasmussen, Patrick Kane and Daniel Sprong scoring, Raymond capping it off, James Reimer rebounding well, & more (9:40). Next, the Red Wings melting again the next night against the Penguins, including Lucas Raymond carrying the team, Fischer chipping in again, Alex Lyon going cold, and trouble on defense & up front as Copp, Chiarot, DeBrincat, & others struggle (15:10).
After that, we discuss Dylan Larkin's injury timeline, what to expect for Detroit's upcoming games with or without him, and the current NHL playoff race against the Islanders, Capitals, Lightning, Flyers, & others (24:30).
Next, we assess Steve Yzerman's goaltending issues, and whether shipping Ville Husso out for the likes of John Gibson, Jacob Markstrom, Linus Ullmark, or others would be worthwhile (33:40).
After that, celebrating Lucas Raymond's ascension to star status and what his ceiling might be (46:20) before talking prospects: Nate Danielson lighting it up for the Portland Winterhawks and our Macklin Celebrini 2024 NHL Draft Profile (51:15).
We give a quick update on the PWHL coming to the LCA & hopefully permanently to Detroit in the future (1:00:40) & lots more before we take your questions and comments during our Overtime segment (1:03:10) - enjoy!
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I'm loving Raymonds progression. I'm betting he's learning alot from Kane.
I just wish Mo has a mentor like that on the defensive side.
Seider has Petry as a mentor to learn from
@@danb239You can't just deadpan like that, you need to make that heavily implied sarcasm obvious.
@@jessecoonce1363 I can't deadpan like that? I just did
@@danb239 Lol, yeah you did. I'm trying to imagine someone reading that and thinking you were being sincere, haha
Brad, the team not doing what Newsy says is still a complaint against the coach. That’s a sign that the coach is losing control. Also, maybe ask them to DO SOMETHING ELSE. Maybe let Kane and DeBrincat actually try to control the puck through the neutral zone instead of forcing skilled players to constantly dump it.
I came here to say the same thing. The fact that players won’t give effort and do what the coach is asking tells me Newsy is either losing the room or already lost it. Either way that’s on the coach.
dump and chase w Kane and Cat is just insane. zone entry greats, passing greats, great chemistry, with or without Larkin. and Kane it's especially crazy bc he never chased, and right now he's both unwilling AND unable to chase. he's not going to chase or win the race to it if he does. it's incredible misuse of personnel.
Coach has to realize Kane is one of the best at controlled entries and exits. Don't make him play a dump and chase game. It's misusing Kaner's abilities.
There is no ability to make a push past the neutral zone without Larkin. Need some youthful energy out there from the young guns. All the veterans look frozen, just standing still. Bring on the prospect profiles.
Patrick Kane is among the best zone entry forwards in NHL history, and that has continued. "All the veterans" lmao.
I got news for you, the dump-ins? That is coached. That is how they are being coached to play.
The complete lack of leadership and depth from the veterans during Larkins absence is inexcusable if this is what they're going to show when things get tough they can all go in the off season.
At this point too many of them look like they are along for a ride as opposed to being there to push something through. So I agree with you entirely.
what do you want them to lead? How are they responsible for Alex Lyon not being able to make saves? Or for defensemen not making the plays? or for Rasmussen not knowing how to run a 3 on 1?
The team isn't losing bc it lacks player leadership, it's losing bc they're playing bad. That's the coach's job to fix.
The east couldn't have made it any easier on the wings to make it. They just can't get motivated to start a game on time. I've defended newsy most of this season, but I can't do it any longer. Its clear the team has needed a fire lit under them over this last 3 week stretch, and newsy continues to say, "These are not must win games". Pathetic...
Something I've recently considered, is that Lalonde was the coach behind the bench during January and February when the wings went 16-4-2, and he was the coach during the 6 game win streak too. I was skeptical about his position, but I'm not sure I feel quite as severely the same way anymore. Whatever it is that Lalonde is trying to tell these guys to do, they're almost certainly not doing it, and how much can that be attributed to him?
This is what has pissed me off the most, all the wings had to do was win maybe 4 out of the last 8? And they would still be comfortable. The east could NOT be making it any easier on them.
@@Winged_Wagon_Nation What i found really disappointing was last night - they had a chance to put Pittsburgh out - for good last night. I head these guys talking about the flu -and I am hoping maybe that is what it is because they look to me like they are skating in sand - there is no energy and little if any passion. I saw that replay of Kane scoring in OT on that breakaway in Chicago and it was only 2 weeks ago! what a difference they just fell off a cliff.
I didn't see them start at all yesterday. They don't care.
@@icedo1013 Anyone can tell someone to do something, it's your job as a coach or boss to make sure the message gets across and explain why it is important to do what they say. There also has to be consequences if your not going to listen, Lalonde scratched Walman but REFUSES to scratch Petry no matter how many mistakes and games it cost them, should have played Holl over him long time ago, that would be the fair and smart thing to do. Does Lalonde even get mad? the refs screw the Wings over and over then he blows them in the press conference, unacceptable, the guy is soft as butter and barely has a pulse, his nice guy style is getting him and the Wings nowhere.
Not sure any goalie changes this team, when petry holl maatta ghost and even sometimes chiarot and walman are on the ice... fix the defense and a lot of issues go away
Facts
Game against Buffalo we were able to carry the puck into the offensive zone with possession to set up scoring chances. Last night we went back to dump and chase and could not win any battles. So frustrating to watch.
If the Wings hope to take that step next season, we need *defense*. Capable, competent defense. Yes, Lyon has let in some leaky goals, as has Husso... and Reimer is a leaky goal factory. But it's on defense to keep those pucks from ever reaching them in the first place, and it's on the goalies to stop the shots that do reach them. They've done that for periods of time this season, but then inexplicably stop doing it. When they stop, we get crap play like we've seen in this 1-9 stint we've seen in our last ten games.
To that end, absolutely do not call up Cossa. Not because he can't handle it, but because he's done nothign to deserve whatever the hell it is we're doing on the ice these last ten games.
I too do not want to see Cossa thrown into this shit show. It would destroy his confidence.
Cossa shouldn’t see the NHL until a couple games next year as call ups and ideally after serious off season moves to seriously improve the team defense
I believe the lack of defense in front of of Lyon is killing his confidence
And a shaky goalie hurts everyone’s confidence. Two way street
ABSOLUTELY !!! Been saying it most of season. Game after game he gets bombed by quality shots !!
If Detroit makes the playoffs, they should be pretty fresh...because they're def saving energy on these last 9 games.😂....At least Seider is still throwing the odd bodycheck, but he can't be the only one or its futile.
Realisticly I see Ed and Johansson both being called up next year and moving Ben and Jeff to the 3rd pairing, if we dont call up Johansson finally, then WTH are we still doing with him
Am I wrong in wondering about Perron’s true impact in the room??? He has gotten slower and with this streak I am leaning more towards my feeling about his foot speed being concerning. Definitely moving to having to think about whether he is brought back. Maybe Kane is the vet guy with experience. I don’t know. Wonder if Jane is mentoring Raymond a bit and some of Raymond’s jump is partly due to that (and the added muscle mass).
Since we signed him (Kane), I definitely have always seen Raymond as being the one who could benefit most from Kane's presence. But who the hell is gaining anything from any of the other vets, those guys just look like they're here to get easy money.
There were a couple of games where Raymond had the patience to hold on to the puck before shooting or passing, and it paid off. That's definitely a Kane thing.
40:58 well done editing the F bomb lol surprisingly not a lot of them made it to this point
I write everything with irony because otherwise it's hard for me to do it!
The funny thing about it all is that the young players weren't used because we have "such great" experienced players. I would have preferred to see young, up-and-coming talents playing with energy, who would have definitely made mistakes in one or two games, but better than our current team.
We traded Lindstöm for Pettry, he had a cheaper salary in return for Pettry and he did a decent defense for his standards (which would make him better today in comparison). MON laughed his ass off, we found an idiot who wants to trade for Pettry. Who? Detroit! hahahaha
Oh, there are two RD 2023/24 available!
Which ones are they?
Gaudas and Holl!
Then let's take the cheaper one (1 million), which wasn't that good in TOR! But, Gaudas has experience in the playoffs and is physically stronger! No matter, we'll take the one from TOR!
We need a new forward (2022/23)! Which position? First or second line! OK! How about Coop, he doesn't score that many goals and his passing isn't that great either (already in New York and Winnipeg)! Let's give him 5,625 million, it's fine!
And, we're bringing in a veteran player who's good on the power play but not so great otherwise! We can give Perron 4.75 million! Great!
Which players were still available in UFA in 2022/23? Forsberg LW/C, Niederreiter LW/RW, etc.
SY doesn't want to invest in top players! (DeBrincat signed 2023/24) ???????
Then we'll get another C for 2023/24 (Compher is one of the better ones, good investment) Because Copp might not have been that good after all and we'll also give Veleno a chance and Copp will be on the fourth line, that's fine! We invest even more because the salary cap is low anyway! Young players do not need new contracts (Seider, Raymond, Berggren,...)
Overall, more was invested in average players than if top players had been brought in straight away!
To get serious again, you guys are doing a good job! Thank you for this!
I don't think the idea of bringing former players back is wrong at all! These players could be better reinforcements for the team! Mantha 2.85 million, Kubalik 2.5 million, etc.
Mantha LW/RW Lakin C Raymond RW/LW
DeBrincat LW/RW Compher C/RW Kane RW
Söderblom LW/RW Danielson C Kuberlik RW/LW
Bergren LW/RW Rasmusen C/LW Sprong RW/LW
Mazur LW Kasper C Veleno C/LW/RW
Wallman LD Seider RD
Edvinsson LD Chiarot LD/RD
Määttä LD/RD Johansson LD/RD
Wallinder LD Sandin-Pelikka RD
Husso G
Augustine G
Lyon G
There are probably thousands of solutions, but the way the team is currently playing can only get better
Thanks guys for leaning into the strike zone and taking one for the team. I have gotten so angry at times that I have had to turn games off to save my sanity and mood. You guys, mental toughness warriors that you are, have had to stick it out on these games so you can talk intelligently about what you are seeing. This fan of the Wings and the podcast thanks you for your efforts while I sometimes just decide to hang out with my kids or my dog when games get out of hand. I can take losing when we put forth a good effort, but I really can’t watch lazy looking, clown car defensive coverage or no attack or drive to get after the puck kinds of games.
The east is sad. It’s a battle of who wants it the least. The flyers haven’t been as good, the wings suck now, islanders lost 4 other now, the caps are now favourites, the devils still stink, and Pittsburg can’t consistently win either. No team is clearly in the lead in this race and it’s kinda sad tbh.
Which team to wager on to make the playoffs hmmmm
You can begin with how many times we prefer to give the other team the puck. For example a hundred dump and no chases. Play it back for gods sake why do they not???
Right now drafting about 16th ~ 19th. Need the depth at RW
Beckett Sennecke, Michael Brandsegg-Nygard, or Liam Greentree
Or does SY go BPA defenseman?
Carter Yakemchuk, Zayne Parekh, or Adam Jiricek,
Brandsegg-Nygård seems like an Yzerman type to me.
@@albedz7759 I would like to see them try to fit the name Brandsegg-Nygard on a jersey. Had a great U20 with 12 points in 9 International-Jr games and 5 points in 5 game in the U20Jr tourney. He is 6ft1 200 pounds with room to grow.
Greentree would be great
Celebrini really is the Yzerman ideal player archetype. I’ve been thinking about that this entire year. Should have taken Benson last year and tried for celebrini this year if he wanted to spend top 10 picks on that archetype of player
Im way more of a fan of Lyon plus his contract os way cheaper than Husso who is perpetually injured
Glad you said that because I've said it twice already today that Husso is a passenger we could well do without. I want to see him gone in the summer. He's been a passenger since the backend of last season. We dont need passengers when even the guys who aren't passengers aren't pushing hard enough. Husso should be the first out of the door followed closely by some of these so called vets who should f***ing know better than to start slacking off at the critical point of the season. There is literally no excuse for the way they are playing and I am pissed off with it.
Yeah I could say bye bye to Petry, Holl and even Chariot at this point even though I want to like him he hasn't been pulling his weight. I still like Walman and Seider and Maata is more of a defensive defenseman. Ngl I like Ghost too even though he is not very defensive he's good on PP and he got in that scrap recently in Lyons defense I believe it was, which I really like to see that stuff.
Make a coaching move! The minor bump every team gets from making a coaching change will get them in as a wild card.
This was actually quite a cathartic episode considering the current state of affairs. Thank you!
Add the PWHL team, kick the Pistons out 1:02:40
I'l be going to the Capitals game next week full of angst. I hope they play Reimer because because even though he's a heart attack to watch in net, Lyon is way off the game he was showing earlier in the season.
I hate that I've conceded the fact the wings fell off over the last 2 1/2 weeks. Is it coaching? IDK. Has Lalonde lost the locker room? But this also proves that this team needs Larkin more than people realize. I hope they can figure it out. I'm 40 and I remember very vividly the cup runs over the last 30 years. #LGRW
Broissoit is available next year..The Bross Wall
Debrincat 5 v 5 is concerning af.
Too small
If the PP isn't clicking, he can go awhile without doing much.
I think it’s hard to say no other teams are making a push for the last playoff spot, while Detroit was on their losing streak then islanders went on a big win streak and Washington has been putting it together. Detroit allowed this to happen by not picking up any points in 7 games.
Even Buffalo is only a few points back of Detroit, and Buffalo has been winning! Detroit is the team who isn’t fighting for the last spot in their past 10 games.
Basically Detroit had a buffer, they lost it and now they have to get back to playing good hockey
Walman looks awful out there. He wasn’t even skating on at least two of the Pitt goals. I don’t care how many goals he has; play defense. Holy crap.
Detroit Pink Wings
Detroit Red Wing-ettes
Jokes aside, I would love if a PWHL Detroit team brought back the Vipers
LGRW
Lalonde’s lack of optimism across the board is clearly rubbing off on the locker room. Dude needs to figure out how to manage a locker room’s mental wayyy better than he has. Larkin (honorable mention to Raymond) seems to be the only person who can manipulate the team’s attitude positively.
One game at a time. I lost confidence in Lyon some time ago. Is he burned out or playing to his actual capabilities? Thank God I also watch the Bruins, Bolts, and Panthers. Wings are like the Lions who, over the years, made me an AFC fan.
Gutless comment. Nothing to be proud of was written. Truly despicable.
I knew Lyon had not played a lot as he is a career back up. But last night on the telecast they came out with specifics - the most games he had started in his career was 14 ( last year in Florida) Last night was his 34 start. No way was he going to hold up to that. Mind you - most of these losses are not his fault - the defense in front of him has been brutal - but he has hit a wall- you see it that a lot of the goals are just weird deflections that are just finding their way - beyond his reach. Not a lot of clean shots that are beating him - a couple but not many - a lot of chaos in front of him - loose pucks bouncing around and suddenly a shot through traffic finds it way in.
He's burned. I dont think its about ability, or lack of, its the fact that once again, Detroit has ridden a goaltender into the ground until he is dust. They do it to every goaltender. Bernie, Howard, Ned, the list goes on and you can add Lyon and Husso to it. High time the goalie coach was dragged in to the office cos he's got some 'splaining to do.
What are the consequences for zero effort? One person being cut?
FIRE LALONDE!!! I was thinking Lalonde really started showing his inept coaching ability when he stated Hossa too soon, then he got injured the first period. That was when Lyon was playing great, but we lost that game. It has gotten way worse over this 1-8 losing record and Lalonde still has the same blasé attitude! YZERMAN….PLEASE FIRE LALONDE!!!! 🙏🙏🙏
I baught tickets to see Danielson vs the Hitmen and they traded him like a week before the game, Brandon was TERRIBLE, 3-0 after the first and got smoked like 7-0. Danielson had absolutely nothing to work with on that team they were useless offensively. Carter Yakemchuk was very impressive, Wings should 100% take him if he's available but he probably won't be, guy is 6'3", mean as hell, and quarterbacking the powerplay like a pro, amazing how good he was offensively for a guy his size.
The Detroit Cougars
Watching other teams play their 18-19 yr olds with success, and then seeing ours never even getting a look, really freaking sucks. Danielson should have been this teams 2c out of the preseason.
Stevie had to see the flaws in this team at the deadline even though they were winning. It wasn’t going to last. He would not have been popular if he sold and they missed the playoffs but it’s easy to see now that was what needed to happen. I hope someone offers Gostisbehere a deal the Wings won’t come close to. I don’t understand why some still think he needs to stay. Blows my mind. You can’t build a winning backend with a guy that’s that poor defensively no matter what he does offensively. Good bye! Him with all the other liability’s on the D that Stevie brought in. He can stop with the. Obsession in signing hometown boys because it’s not working to say the least. They come home and kickback like they’re in a retirement home.
Ive never seen brad so hurt😂😂😂 ive been watching for 3 years or so now maybe more lol. I cant stop laughing 😂😂😂😂
(Yes im very sad :(
OHHHH WHOAAAAA OHHH OHHHH OHH >:(
I just wanna be a happy fan, is that so wrong????? 😁
Raymond isn't carrying anything and this narrative by homers that he's been great and the lone exception working hard and playing well while everyone else around him quits and is terrible and doesn't try is purest homer nonsense for the homegrown prospect.
He was -13 w 1 5v5 point (an assist) during the 7 game losing streak. He's had one actual big play - the tying goal 5v5 vs Pittsburgh just yesterday. That's it, in the 9 games.The other 4 goals that make his numbers look good so you can say he's "carrying" and "playing great" are 1 empty netter w the score 3-1 (in the lone win, a game Kane and his line dominated, where Kane scored the winning goal from Compher), and 3 power play goals late in losses that were out of hand, all on beautiful feeds from Kane.
Ray is playing better the past few and it is to his credit that given opportunities w Kane on the power play he is taking full advantage and burying one chance per game. And he is dangerous 5v5 and making a play here or there. But carrying he is not. No one is carrying. Hence the thing is not being carried.
Lucas and his garbage patches vs the NHL
How do you guys even mention goalies? First of all, even the best goalie playing his best hockey ever is letting up goals.
We all know the context on Lyon and that he’s not the greatest goalie of all time. Now add horrible defense and every other shot is from the slot.
Goalies get run through the mud when their team sucks in front of them. Crazy how when the team was playing well or “average at best” in front of him, he played great!
🗣️It doesn’t matter what goalie you bring in, if the team sucks in front of them you will lose!🗣️
Only in the context of having mentioned defense as the primary issue every previous episode! And acknowledging that needs to be fixed as priority 1. You're right, it's just a different segment this time around.
Call up Hutchinson
How many times can Seider blow a tire and cost the Wings a goal this season? He is very underwhelming this season. Absolutely ZERO physicality, slow skating and offensive production has taken a hit. How is anyone justifying him making 9 million+ long term? If he wants to make elite money he better play elite against top lines(he hasnt) this is the same scenario as danny dekeyser. 1 man looks like a solid defensemen in contract year when comparing him to the rest of the HORRIBLE defensemen on current roster and he gets a long term deal we all regret. Is it really easy to look like an elite defensemen when comparing yourself to petry, holl, matta, chariot etc.
Its the lack of physicality in his game this year which hurts the most. I dont blame him, I think he's under orders from the coach to pussify his game and its robbed him of one of his (and our) most potent weapons. In his first season, by the time he hit 20 games he already had a big hits compilation. This season and last season, his game has been bereft of hits and we're seeing how thats working for us. Opposition teams are no longer scared to set up camp in our zone. They are feeling quite welcome there and its because they have stopped fearing Seiders big hits because they know the big hits aint coming. They are no longer concerned about gliding through the neutral zone at us because they know Seider has been neutered so they skate at us with impunity. He looks a different player now, and not in a good way. This coach is destroying the one good thing we had on the back end. Lalonde has quite literally castrated any back check ability that we had and now as a result, we get swarmed at will.
I think Lalonde is misusing him. Compare his play under Lalonde these past two seasons to that of his play at the World Championship for Team Germany just this past summer. It's night and day. Just another reason I believe Lalonde needs to go. I think another coach could get way more out of this roster than Lalonde.
Why talk about a 1st overall pick that Detroit will never get. They'll pick 20th and get another 4th line nobody
Oh boy, we’re talking about prospects again like the last 5 years. Fun culture here in Detroit. I hate this current team, a lot. I don’t care about playoffs anymore, none of our players besides Raymond, Kane, and Fischer are likable. Loser mentality and play. This streak has shown me what kind of people these hockey players are lol.
Apparently, beating the Sabre's was their "Stanley Cup moment" You had better grab a proven coach now, before Buffalo does...
Their season is over. They can’t beat even the worst teams.
An early 10's Red Wings team destined for irrelevancy squeaked into the playoffs by winning the last 4 games of the season. 14 > 4. There's plenty of time and plenty of opportunity. If you're ready to throw in the towel now then hop off the bandwagon and find another team to root for.
@@davidclick5344It made a stop during the last win streak. Plenty of seats on it now 😅
@@icedo1013 I have been a Red Wing fan for 40 years. I am not going anywhere, but I am realistic dude!