I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M SAYING THIS ABOUT LUCAS RAYMOND… (Detroit Red Wings, New York Rangers News)
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Let's talk about the ceiling of Detroit Red Wings Lucas Raymond, and how far he's come in comparison to New York Rangers 1st overall pick Alexis Lafreniere.
Reddit Post: / how_good_will_raymond_...
This video is taking place after the 2023 NHL Entry Draft, and after the 2023 Stanley Cup Playoffs.
The 2023 NHL Draft 1st Round went as follows:
1st) Chicago Blackhawks, Connor Bedard
2nd) Anaheim Ducks, Leo Carlsson
3rd) Columbus Blue Jackets, Adam Fantilli
4th) San Jose Sharks, Will Smith
5th) Montreal Canadiens, David Reinbacher
6th) Arizona Coyotes, Dmitri Simashev
7th) Philadelphia Flyers, Matvei Michkov
8th) Washington Capitals, Ryan Leonard
9th) Detroit Red Wings, Nate Danielson
10th) St. Louis Blues, Dalibor Dvorsky
11th) Vancouver Canucks, Tom Willander
12th) Arizona Coyotes (from Ottawa Senators), Daniil But
13th) Buffalo Sabres, Zach Benson
14th) Pittsburgh Penguins, Brayden Yager
15th) Nashville Predators, Matthew Wood
16th) Calgary Flames, Samuel Honzek
17th) Detroit Red Wings (from New York Islanders via Vancouver Canucks), Axel Sandin Pellikka
18th) Winnipeg Jets, Colby Barlow
19th) Chicago Blackhawks (from Tampa Bay Lightning), Oliver Moore
20th) Seattle Kraken, Eduard Sale
21st) Minnesota Wild, Charlie Stramel
22nd) Philadelphia Flyers (from Los Angeles Kings via Columbus Blue Jackets), Oliver Bonk
23rd) New York Rangers, Gabe Perreault
24th) Nashville Predators (from Edmonton Oilers), Tanner Molendyk
25th) St. Louis Blues (from Toronto Maple Leafs), Otto Stenberg
26th) San Jose Sharks (from New Jersey Devils), Quentin Musty
27th) Colorado Avalanche, Calum Ritchie
28th) Toronto Maple Leafs (from Boston Bruins via Washington Capitals), Easton Cowan
29th) St. Louis Blues (from Dallas Stars via New York Rangers), Theo Lindstein
30th) Carolina Hurricanes, Bradley Nadeau
31st) Colorado Avalanche (from Florida Panthers via Montreal Canadiens), Mikhail Gulyayev
32nd) Vegas Golden Knights, David Edstrom
This video is also taking place after 2023 NHL Season, and after the 2023 Stanley Cup Playoffs, where the Vegas Golden Knights defeated the Florida Panthers in the Finals.
Lucas Raymond was one of the top NHL prospects at the 2020 NHL Entry Draft.
The 2020 NHL Entry Draft saw many top NHL prospects get selected by a variety of teams. The first round of the draft went as follows:
1st) New York Rangers, Alexis Lafrenière
2nd) Los Angeles Kings, Quinton Byfield
3rd) Ottawa Senators (from San Jose Sharks), Tim Stützle
4th) Detroit Red Wings, Lucas Raymond
5th) Ottawa Senators, Jake Sanderson
6th) Anaheim Ducks, Jamie Drysdale
7th) New Jersey Devils, Alexander Holtz
8th) Buffalo Sabres, Jack Quinn
9th) Minnesota Wild, Marco Rossi
10th) Winnipeg Jets, Cole Perfetti
11th) Nashville Predators, Yaroslav Askarov
12th) Florida Panthers, Anton Lundell
13th) Carolina Hurricanes (from Toronto Maple Leafs), Seth Jarvis
14th) Edmonton Oilers, Dylan Holloway
15th) Toronto Maple Leafs (from Pittsburgh Penguins), Rodion Amirov
16th) Montreal Canadiens, Kaiden Guhle
17th) Chicago Blackhawks, Lukas Reichel
18th) New Jersey Devils (from Arizona Coyotes), Dawson Mercer
19th) New York Rangers (from Calgary Flames), Braden Schneider
20th) New Jersey Devils (from Vancouver Canucks), Shakir Mukhamadullin
21st) Columbus Blue Jackets, Yegor Chinakov
22nd) Washington Capitals (from Carolina Hurricanes via New York Rangers and Calgary Flames), Hendrix Lapierre
23rd) Philadelphia Flyers, Tyson Foerster
24th) Calgary Flames (from Washington Capitals), Connor Zary
25th) Colorado Avalanche, Justin Barron
26th) St. Louis Blues, Jake Neighbours
27th) Anaheim Ducks (from Boston Bruins), Jacob Perreault
28th) Ottawa Senators (from New York Islanders), Ridly Greig
29th) Vegas Golden Knights, Brendan Brisson
30th) Dallas Stars, Mavrik Bourque
31st) San Jose Sharks (from Tampa Bay Lightning), Ozzy Wiesblatt
Twitter: @LR99Gaming
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Hi. I'm "Gio Palermo", also known as "legorocks99" ("legorocks99Gaming", "LR99Gaming", or "LR99"). I post video game commentaries on CZcams revolving around "hockey", with a primary focus on "Vancouver Canucks", "Montreal Canadiens", "Detroit Red Wings", and top "NHL prospects" topics. These videos are uploaded with "NHL 24" gameplay in the background. I enjoy making these videos and I hope that you enjoy watching them!
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Razor is a stud.
But let's break 60 pts first. Then 70 .... talking 100+ pts per season is insane when the dude hasn't cracked 60 yet.
Cracked 60 tonight, 12 games to go. He is only 21 going on 22, non generational talents dont dominate early. Normal development is hitting prime at 23-25 years old.
That said, talking 100 plus is crazy talk at this moment.
Razor is a stud, but a point per game 85-90 point player at peak is a more realistic projection.
Everybody loves him ❤️
Raymond reminds me of Zetterberg when he first came into the league. And he's doing it without Datsyuk as a linemate.
100% agreed. Skillset and overall eyetest reminds me totally of Z
Better skater though. @@mrjojo2836
Datsyuk and Z were both centers they rarely played together 5-5
@@kevindutrisac8118 They played together on the same line most of their career. In 2008 and 2009 the top line was Zetterberg Datsyuk and Holmström.
I can see Raymond at a 32 goal range with close to at least 50+ assist he could be 70 80 point player easily
This discussion can be settled in one sentence - “Lets compare their even strength points”
Lucas is leveling up, anyone watching the Wings this year keeping an eye on Razor has seen it. Been saying it for months. 2nd half of the season he's been the 2nd best forward on the team.
Raymond is looking damn sharp lately. He is super young and am expecting him to have a big season next year. Hard agree with this video. Raymond and Seider are easily going to get premium money and term out of Yzerman. Yzerman is gonna have to unload some of these temp contracts and bring up prospects to get the money to make these signings. They are easily a couple of the best players on the team. Also as a wings fan I'm dying to see these prospects develop and play in the big club.
Everybody loves Raymond!
Great Video, as usual, Lego
My prediction: I think its definitely possible for Raymond to hit 100 points in at least one of his seasons in his career. I don't know about multiple seasons, but maybe he could have a lot where he's close as well. I think it also depends on if he develops his defensive game more too. It can take away from his point totals though at the same time I think some plays that result in points also come from making good defensive reads.
I think Raymond will sign a bridge deal. I use to this it'd be three 3 years with a 6 mil cap hit. Now I am thinking three years with a 7.5 mil cap hit.
Frankly, I'd be happy if he could average over a point a game while retaining his all-around game.
Lafreniere has VASTLY superior metrics at 5v5 (it’s not close) and they have the same amount of even strength goals at 13. Raymond has 4 more even strength assists. Raymond is solely the beneficiary of power play time.
2,499 pts
Yas!! Gotta love the goapel according to "I dont know where I heard it"- lmao! I dont think hes ever a 100 point player abd i dont think theres even a whole lot to indicate ue ever will be. Is the premise here that Yzerman drafted kucherov so visa vi, concordently- Raymond is a 100 point payer???
I think hes a 30 goal- 70.point guy- which is still very good. He likely hits for higher ((80+) a couple times but i doubt thats the norm...
..
I agree with a lot of the points here. However, laf going to a playoff ready team almost immediately stunted his growth TREMENDOUSLY. If Raymond was in lafs position I think the script would be flipped and laf would be much better. Also, keep in mind that Raymond averages 18-20 PP points a season. Lafreneire has 12 in his career, the guy dosent get pp time and is putting up these numbers all even strength. I see where you’re coming from but I do think lafreneire will end up being the real deal out of the 2 especially when he gets PP1 minutes
Laf is also surrounded by high-end talent. Look how many players fizzle out when they leave for a more prominent role. Laf with talent around him, couldn't produce. Why would you think he could do it with no supporting cast?
@@jasonbrowning6034 not my point… his first 3 years he was stuck on a line with 3rd and 4th liners.. this is his first year playing with a top 5 player and his progression has shown. He will not get any PP1 time on this rangers roster so naturally he will have less points than Raymond. Laf is way better against beyyer teams and 5 on 5 which the rangers need so I’m taking laf any day 🤷♂️
Raymond has been great on the stat sheet; however, Seider has been a work horse on defense.
Raymond just turned 21. 😂😂
He turns 22 in a month…
If we eliminate both players PPP Laf and Raymond are pretty much even in points. Laf has to deal with the fact that he’s on a team with an already established elite powerplay, he doesn’t get the time Raymond does there. Laf is finally breaking out and yes it’s with Panarin, but a prospect I won’t defend like a Kakko has been given multiple chances on that line and didn’t do a thing.
You gotta remember all years prior to this Laf was relegated little ice time and on the third line, never getting top 6 minutes until this year. Also under coaches who refused to give him a chance (Quinn and Gallant). Raymond has been given top 6 minutes as long as I can remember and this is Lafs first turn with it, and he’s breaking out.
Also Lafs Goals expected has been higher than his goals all season, I expect that to eventually even out and his goals will go up alongside his development in the years to come.
Doesn’t feel fair to compare them when Raymond has been given all the chances in the world and Laf has finally been given his, and it still doesn’t match Raymond in PP time. What Laf has shown me is that he can have the potential to do so much more and I think it’s too early to tell still but I’m taking Laffy over Raymond for the future.
Raymond has earned the A on his jersey... He lead our team through good and bad without Larkin
According to Google Gemini:
A player with a similar style and skillset to Lucas Raymond is Filip Forsberg of the Nashville Predators. Both are left-handed wingers known for their offensive creativity, puck-handling ability, and speed. They are also similar in size, with Raymond listed at 6'2" and 196 lbs and Forsberg at 6'3" and 220 lbs.
Forsberg has been a consistent point producer throughout his career, averaging over 0.7 points per game. While Raymond is still young in his career, looking at Forsberg's performance as a comparable player, a reasonable estimate for Lucas Raymond's points per season total maximum could be in the range of 70-80 points. This is assuming Raymond continues to develop his skills and takes on a bigger role within the Detroit Red Wings offense. It's important to note that this is just an estimate, and Raymond's actual point totals could be higher or lower depending on various factors.
Raymond is 5'11 not 6'2.
Here are some historical and current comparisons for Lucas Raymond's career, considering wingers and centers with similar styles, scoring output, size, and defensive capabilities:
Historical Comparisons:
* Best Case: Mats Sundin (C) - A highly skilled offensive center with a similar build to Raymond who excelled at puck control and playmaking, averaging over a point per game throughout his career.
* Worst Case: Johan Dahlen (W) - Drafted high but hasn't lived up to expectations, showcasing offensive ability but lacking consistency.
* High-Scoring Winger: Pavel Bure (RW) - Known for his blazing speed and goal-scoring prowess, similar to Raymond's offensive potential.
* Two-Way Center: Marian Hossa (RW) - A well-rounded player with strong offensive and defensive contributions, comparable to Raymond's potential two-way play.
* Offensive Playmaking Center: Alexei Yashin (C) - A skilled playmaker with a strong offensive focus, similar to Raymond's creative offensive abilities.
Current Comparisons:
* Filip Forsberg (LW): A left-handed winger with offensive creativity, puck-handling ability, and speed, similar to Raymond's skillset.
* Elias Lindholm (C): A well-rounded center with strong offensive instincts and defensive awareness, comparable to Raymond's potential two-way ability.
* Matthew Barzal (C): A highly skilled center known for his playmaking ability, similar to Raymond's creative offensive vision.
* Kirill Kaprizov (LW): A dynamic left-winger with a strong shot and offensive flair, similar to Raymond's offensive potential.
* Brady Tkachuk (RW): A power forward with a good combination of size, skill, and physicality, comparable to Raymond's frame and potential for a well-rounded game.
@@europason2293 lol, i don't disagree, just puking out what the AI gave as similar players in terms of style and production. Interesting tho. Personally being as how he's a past first kinda guy, I don't see him having better production then say like a Datsyuk, getting 30g,40a type seasons. But we'll see.
Its funny that came from Gemini- but I think thats a fantastic comparable. It works as a one to one omparison but it also highlights how the wings will utilize him- which means even though he'll get topline, top pp, etc- it also means the organization will ALWAYS demand a full effort- including hard back check and dogged commitment to defense.
I think both of the following states are true:
Raymond will consistently be in the mix for the teams leading scorer AND...
Hes probably still closer to a 30 goal, 70 point player than a point per game one. Dont get me wrong- i see the odd 80+ point season- just not the norm aka Filip Forsberg
@@karlpaquette6139 We're on the same page, I see him getting 30-40g, and 30-40a. Per year, 60-80 pts which is excellent. I don't think he'll 100, but am happy to be wrong.
sky's the limit is a bit of an exaggeration but raymond is brilliant no doubt about it
I don’t think Raymond will ever have the ceiling Kucherov has. Raymond is one of our best offensive players, if not our best, but he also forechecks hard and is reliable defensively. He is such a well rounded player.
Kucherov, hell no. For me, Lukas is a player who probably has Zetterberg and Forsberg's (Preds) as parents and I'm comfortable with that. Also, his 200th game is awesome to watch. What I personally consider he developed the most in the last two years, which is not difficult to understand with his third year. New to the league and a second year like so many players before him found it difficult to find space and time to succeed after a his first year in the league. Wondering what Lukas and Dalin will continue to work on during the summer, the two who are best friends during the Swedish summer on the west coast, which worked out very well last year...
Putting on 10 to 15 lbs of muscle is realistic for him and I'm sure it's something he want's to do. If he keeps his tenacity and drive I believe a point per game player is realistic for a number of years. Kucherov is not a realistic expectation for Raymond. Kuch is one of the best darn players in the league. But if Raymond keeps on with his development he should give opposing teams headaches for years to come.
Settle down. Raymond is playing well. Raymond is developing well. BUT, Raymond is also playing in a contract year. Anyone who says contract years are a non-factor is uneducated. There are many years left in his career. The question for management is do we sign him for big money for 8 years and hope the last 4 years are a steal or do we give him a big bump up now for a 2 or 3 year deal and see if he is a legit superstar. The latter ends in a situation where the team signs him to a long term deal for much more money. Given his age and Yzerman's frugality my money bets on the team signing him to a 2 or 3 year bridge deal.
Yeah looking at points it is Lucas, but they have pretty much the same ev play points as Laffy this season. Not being on pp1 in Laffy it is hard to say. As I Swede I am happy for Lucas, of course. And as a Rags fan I am happy that Laffy is starting to break out too. So I do not see the debate really. I think both players will be point per game players. But opportunity is important for growth and Laffy haven't had the same opportunity. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.
Ollie Matta is a plus 15. Raymond is a minus 17 (Worst on the team.) I don't get to watch the Red Wings that often. Can he play defense?
Probably out there too often with Ghost defending😂 I think physically he's outmatched in areas of the nice. It's his knack for getting open and finding soft areas that makes successful. He isn't taking bruises and scoring many dirty goals like say fabbri has been. This is just how I see it. I'm no expert. He will become a very cerebral type of player as he enters his prime. He won't have to be the best defensive forward on his line to be a 1st liner
@@ashthuroit7120 He'll have to be a point er game at a minimum if he can't play both ends
@richardprescott5939 for sure. And considering he has just about 3 season exp.. I don't think it's unreasonable to think he van consistently be between 70 and 80pts a season the next few years. Depending on what linemates he plays with down the road, but I can see him cracking 90 once or twice in his career, as he still improving all areas of his game
@@ashthuroit7120 For sure? His number is very bad on 'the team' so its not a product of his team. Putting up points is not my question. The stats show he has production of points.
@richardprescott5939 looking at +- then no he can't play defense. Neither can veleno, ghost, perron, fabbri. It's not like every other player is stellar defensively, they're a dumpster fire with retrievals, clearing attempts. Defense is lacksidasical on every opponent dump in. Rather entertaining. At this point, Raymond's defensive game is the least of my worries, as he's still maturing. He was the only player that stood out to me during that losing streak. Him leading the team in minus means nothing to me at this stage
Ok those teal uniforms are fire!!!!!!!!
You clearly have not watched the NYR games this season if you think Laf is not popping
Raymond, captain all day long. He's a Swedish stevey Y.
Laff is becoming a dynamic all around player saying he is slow and doesn’t move his feet shows me you never watch the Rangers.Night in night out Laff is one of the best all around players on the ice he is our future captain and will Be a 100 point scorer .Raymond will be great Laff will win cups
Yeah if New York is known for anything it’s known for winning cups…
So a guy mentions he thinks he maybe thought he might have heard that raymond is a 100 player now?? Why is Lafreniere even mentioned in this?? Slow views day?
Lafrenière can easily be a 70/80+ point player with pp1 time
100 easy for Razer.
100 ppint playyer
Why does it seem like Larkin can't stay healthy?
Because he gets targeted constantly by opposing teams goon squads. Pretty simple answer if you've watched any games.
@@Weeping_Somnambulist point taken, no need to be rude 🤘
Turning Reddit posts into CZcams content, is about the best thing you could do to show the nonexistent credibility you have..
100 pts? Comparing to Marner?
Brain rot hockey info.
Raymond surpassed Laffys point totals last year in about 60 less games.
Laffy's skating was always a mobility issue, a heavier type forward without dynamic shot selection. He probably will not finish out his career with NYR and be with many teams with a serviceable career.
Thanks for letting me know you haven’t been watching him at all this year. Laf is breaking out and looks like a different player. His expected goals is also higher than his goal total, so reason to expect more in the future
@@duckydonne11 ....and breaking out with 20 goals and 25 assists? wow thanks for that update!
@@ericscottstevens his expected goals is higher than his actual goals so i expect that to readjust in oncoming years, increasing his goal total along with improvement coming from just getting older. Compared to how he’s played before, yes he’s breaking out. You also have to realize unlike Raymond Laf gets no PP time because there’s already an established PP1 that’s one of the best in the league. If you subtracted PP points from both players this season, Laf actually has more points! For someone so young to finally be given top 6 time and given very little power play time along with just watching his play and not just point watching, yes, you can see that there is a lot of potential in this player being shown that wasn’t present years prior. Not everyone is gonna be an Auston Matthews at number 1 in both being a star right off the bat and that much of a stud. Laf has the potential to be a dangerous top 6 winger in this league from what I’ve seen this year. He is still very young. When the Rangers core starts to age and Laf finally gets his time on the Power Play, I expect his points to go up significantly. Your responses haven’t helped your case because I have watched this dude play all year and you are giving me numbers I can get from a google search
@@duckydonne11 You play your way onto the PP unit, NYR obviously do not think he has the skills to replace anyone on their current power play. As a top pick he obviously is falling short of the lofty projections. That is okay, NYR got the top pick by one of the biggest rule change gaffes in draft lottery history and everything is working out with time.
His mobility is good but not elite like other top NHL forwards have. He will have a serviceable career not exclusive to NYR as he probably will go elsewhere to play with other teams in the long term. He will not be a dangerous top 6 like you predict.
@@ericscottstevens The Rangers have had a top 5 powerplay in the league of better when Laf was getting into the league. It has been established and the only person who has moved off the powerplay is the guy on the bumper, and Laf didn’t get that solely because the rangers have only ever put Righty’s on there which is Trocheck. On the powerplay is the best tipper and net front presence in the league in Kreider. The one quarterback defensemen Adam Fox who’s a top 3 defensemen. Artemi Panarin is there and I don’t have to explain more there. And then Mika who plays on the powerplay in a similar style to Ovi and has a wicket shot from the face off dot. The way Laffy plays the only role he would fit in is Panarins and I’m not sure there is 22 year old in the league who could take his spot.
And I’m not trying to say he’s going to live up to expectations as a number 1 pick. It’s not looking like he is but he’s becoming a top 6 player scoring 5v5 on a team that has a severe lack of players who can do that. My argument is I think people coming to the conclusion that Raymond is better have been right up until this year. This year you can go either way, but if Laf continues the trajectory is on he will most certainly surpass him. Will he ever become worthy of a number 1 overall? I don’t think so but not impossible. Will he be better than Lucas Raymond? With how things have been trending this year I want to say yes.
It’s funny because the last week or so I’ve been thinking,, “Man this guy is gonna be the next Braden Point”. So glad he’s on our squad. In the words of Teddy KGB… “Pay him… pay that man his money”.
Stutzle started better, but Raymond has been clearly better than Stutzle this year.
Lafrenière will end up being the best player of this draft. As projected
People forget he had to play under coaches who refused to develop him and it was only this year he got top 6 deployment. And he still doesn’t see the PP time Raymond does. I agree with you
I wouldn't ordinarily say but barring anything unforseen, Lord willing , I see his floor comp Helm and ceiling Is reaching for a Fedorov.
You should be an announcer professionally
This is literally his ceiling. Between 60-70 points.
You really telling me Raymonds ceiling is what he's producing as a 20 year old when 90% of NHL forwards peak between ages 25-30?
huh???
how is 60 points (virtually what he got in his rookie year) a ceiling? hes only 21.
@@bathwatercod5206 Exactly, thank you lol
His ceiling is probably around 90
@@Winged_Wagon_Nationmore accurate but I am among those who have faith he could reach around the 100+ inch and concerning the random who said his ceiling is 60... lmao too many dumbsters over here
Nearly all of his goals are against non playoff teams. Against good teams he does very little. And let's not forget, there are 2 components to hockey: offence and defence. If you are only good at one and not the other, you've got to be absolutely amazing at the thing you are good at to make up for the thing you are bad at. In other words, a player can score 100 points and still be just an average player if they suck defensively, as this guy clearly does. And when the league at large gets used to your tricks and learns how to play you, you are simply done! This guy won't see 30 in the NHL unless he learns to play hockey. I'm afraid that if he actually starts doing his job on the back end, there won't be much left up front. It's not difficult to score a lot of points in hockey if that's all you care about. Defence can be sacrificed for offence, but just see how long you keep your job! Scoring a lot while also being defensively responsible is extremely difficult to do. Only the very best players in the world excel at both.
Found Lafreniere's burner account.
@@Robert-vi9fx How original! You should write material for Jimmy Kimmel.
@@LeoBondGive it up, Alexis, we all know it's you.
LOL when you play on the top line and are only one of a few decent players on a crappy team you will always look better than someone who is playing third line minutes on a great team. Also playing in NY with the media hovering over you is alot harded than playing in a smaller market. Laughable....
Detroit is NOT a small market and also has constant attention also Laff is playing on the 1st line 😂
@AlexYoes LOL no he is not. He in on the second line this year and Detrolt doent have the same media attention. Ive lived in both markets. I know...
@@AlexYoeshe is playing on the first line this year. This is his first year in the top 6. Still doesn’t see PP time except on the second unit and with the first unit being already established and lethal he doesn’t get many chances. Eliminate PP points Raymond and Laf have the same points. Laf had to wait and rot under bad coaches and bad deployment. He’s been given his first shot and is finally playing well
Yzerman is too cheap to pay Raymond well. Just watch.
He's an unmitigated disaster defensively! Nobody ever said that about Kucherov. Hell, even Marner makes this guy look like a joke. If you're an even-strength liability, you're NOT a star hockey player!