Why New F-22 Replacement TERRIFIES China
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 27. 04. 2024
- đâïž In May 2021, the US Air Force announced plans to retire the F-22 Raptor, the pinnacle of fighter jet technology, by 2030, sparking widespread debate. Despite its unmatched capabilities, why retire this aerial titan so soon? Dive into the complex saga of the F-22, explore the technological advancements on the horizon, and uncover the strategic reasoning behind phasing out one of the skies' most dominant forces. #F22Raptor #USAirForce #MilitaryTechnology đđ #usa #america #freedom #airforce #fighterjet #f16 #f22 #militaryanalysis #militarytech #economy #geopolitics #militarysecrets #china #world
#themilitaryshow - VÄda a technologie
F22: Would you intercept meâŠ.. Iâd intercept me
I am a veteran and was a mechanic for the late A-6 Intruder.
I truly believe the F-22 will be like the A-10.
They'll be around for a long time.
đ
In front of China's J20, it is obsolete~
â@@llkk290Have they solved the J20's reliability issues? (no snark - I'm curious to know what you've heard)
I agree the F-22 isnât going anywhere. They just want an excuse to built something new but the F-22 is still a fine aircraft and far superior than pretty much everything out there. They can roll out the 6th gen but the F-22 will still be in service
@@karlericsanzenbacher3145 You should ask, have all the problems with F22 been resolved? There is nothing wrong with the J20 except that it is very powerful.
@@llkk290 China troll
The United States military has the first and second largest Air Force in the world The second belonging to the United States navy.
Yes yes, I was on the USS Constellation and she is old but still could hold 85
Although I don't have the heart to disturb your party, I would like to say that in China's fortress waters, the F22 will not shoot down anything, but will be shot down on the ground and in the air.
Not counting the engine, the F22 produced 30 years ago lags behind the J20 in terms of missiles, EOTS, radar, stealth coatings, avionics systems and data links.
As for experience? I think our pilots have already fought against the F35, haven't they?
Don't forget that the most important thing in modern warfare is the military system. Plaaf has the world's largest fleet of land-based AESA early warning aircraft, which ensures that we have the upper hand in the confrontation with the F22. Chinese satellites have long since achieved optical tracking of F22 and uploaded the video to the Internet.
Not to mention that the j20 is also being upgraded when the f22 is upgraded/or replaced by NGAD. I think the usaf should focus on building more f15ex instead of thinking about using stealth aircraft to hunt turkeys all day long.
â@@JunyuYueIt's the B1,, you need to fear đđșđžđ„
@@JunyuYue Haahaa, sure
@@peterarmstrong6928 Even the old Phalcon system can detect b1. . . I think what you're trying to say is a lot of jassm
Sadly for Russia the F-15 STILL outclasses anything they can put in the sky.
Stop this nonsense, you are disrespecting the F15 by comparing it to Russian airforce.
You can't compare them. One side you have crazy engineering build only to deliver the best performance possible, on the other side, you have plane build to be easy to mass produce and need the less maintenance possible.
In all fairness Russia did it to themselves. They lied about what their aircrafts were capable of. So we built a rocketship to exceed their specs. Unfortunately for them they grossly lied so when we built something that could beat their lies it was light-years ahead of them because they didn't have what they said they had.
?
Did you watch the video?)
A dog fight is rare even now
An SU 35 can likely see and fire off a missile before most blocks of F15/ F16 would know.
Unless the western supplied aircraft given to UA are fitted with the latest possible kit..they are vulnerable.((
@@Markymarkcy the f-15E has a superior radar the APG-82 is much stronger radar than what the SU35 has. The SU35 has a smaller cross section on the radar but the F15 would see it first or at keast the same time. And the F15 is faster and more maneuverable than the SU35. Plain and simple the F15 might be old but 2 things the F15 strike eagle set the climb to 100k feet record in 1975 and still to this day has been beaten even by the F22. And the F15 is 104-0 in dogfights world wide. That's the definition of fuck around and find out.
Watch, the NGAD's operating system will be called Skynet.
Your very very close lol. But the tag system is about 5 to ten years away .Basically its a drone that can fly by AI , Its stealth and carries agms , so beyond visiual range on of the tag drones can make its signature big like a flight wing. 5 or more aircraft , Its to draw agm systems and or other aircraft by increasing its radar signal. This will cause Agm systems to either fire 5 missles or more and cause them to expend their missle for a large scale attack when they are firing at nothing. And allow the Tag system to fire or designate targets to a f22 or other plane outside the radar area of the targets.
Basically when the Ata missles come on line and fire they give up their location. thus allows them to be enguaged long before the ata systems know excatly whom or what they are firing at. its really a great system.
The Skynet jokes are already getting old and stale. đą
They already have the claim skynet .. look out John
@@loundclear9279 So it's designed to troll enemy defense systems?
That's so American it's absurd.
@@jp9095 Yup basically, Thatâs one reason why the us is not really building anymore raptors atm.
China has the radar signature of the raptor but not the ability to see it further from wich they can engage it.
So now the us said hey letâs exploit that and thatâs what they are doing
Once a Sam sight becomes active its signal is broadcast, our ships awacs and so on can see them.
Now think about it an enemy thinks 10 planes are coming they activate 6 sights and fires at nothing lol now the counter fire will hit them from the other jets itâs called tags
Take the "Non-Combat" 22s and make them the new Thunderbirds! I've seen an F-22 practicing near where I live. It can stand on its tail once it is wheels up and climb at 89 degrees like it was a rocket.
Too expensive to operate. As it is both the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds aircraft are all very old birds. They get refurbished and new paint jobs before they go to the teams.
The radar cross section of a Raptor is still smaller than the F-35. Itâs even a little less than the F-117. The F-35 has a very small RCS but the Raptors is even smaller. Currently the B2 Bomber has the smallest RCS followed closely by the F-22 then the F-117 then the F-35. That doesnât mean the F35 is any worse of a plane. Its RCS is tiny and it would have to be flying within 20 miles of the most advanced radar to show up. The B21 Raider is going to be the best though.
You're completely right that the B-21 Raider is a scary aircraft given it doesn't need an onboard pilot, can fly at incredible altitudes, carry heavy payloads with all different kinds of ordnance, can conduct spy missions and go anywhere with impunity because it has the smallest RCS of ALL stealth aircraft. Other countries won't be able to compete given its astronomical price tag.
The US is retiring the best fighter jet in the world and China and Russia doesnât have anything to match it. Thatâs how far ahead the US is ahead of these regimes.
F 22: "I MUUUUST EAT!!!!"
Would you intercept me? Iâd intercept me.
Have the Chinese send more balloons
ââ@@hbkm40F22 is losing its mind going after balloons
Send the SU-57s and the J35s
It needs to eat
Let the Kid out!!! Grandpa Buff wants to see him in action.
Because they didn't have a chance yet trying to copy/paste it? đ€
the price of the f22 and its failure rate is enough to scare the chinese to not copy it :)
Its failure rate? Pray tell what mission capable rate youâre referencing. Or perhaps youâre a Chinese bot and this is just communist nonsense, per usual.
The F-22 should go nowhere until the entire NGAD force is online. I understand why the A-10 needs to be retired as well, but we need enough F-35s in inventory before one A-10 goes away. Anything less would be incompetent at least and probably wilfully treasonous.
We can't retire the A-10 Warthog yet because we don't have anything to replace it with. The F35 can't replace the A-10 Warthog because it can't be used in the same way A-10 Warthog's are used.
@@LiquidSnake690 Indeed. The F-35 is basically the doctrinal equivalent of the F-4 Phantom: jack of all trades, master of none, sucks at everything.
There is a reason why the US Army threatens to train its own A-10 pilots if the USAF retires it. Even the US Marines love the A-10!
Many of the air frames are from early 2000's. They're way past their life span. So would you retire them and put your money into a new project? Or spend a little less but still a significant amount to repurpase the senior geezer old frames in hopes that things don't fail?
@davidford3115 Plus the A-10 Warthog is better for close range support.
@@LiquidSnake690 An internal study which the Air Force tried to bury for three years warned that those CAS skills would be lost if the A-10 is retired and the F-35 is shoehorned into its role.
I'm just glad we're the ones who own the skies
Shouldn't get rid of the old f22, should just have both.
The problem is that fighter jets have a lot of wear and tear on their airframes from flying at supersonic speeds and high g maneuvering. This means the planes have to be retired after so many flight hours. With the F-22 production line closed older models can't be replaced by new builds so it makes sense to develop a newer more advanced fighter vs spending so much $ restarting factories from a mid 90s design
High maneuverability is not necessary now. With helmet based targeting, if the pilot can see the target, be can shoot it.
But most shots will be taken from 75 miles+ out.
IDK. I would still like the NGAD to have dogfighting capabilities. You never know what type of situation you may find yourself in on the battlefield. Better to be able to dogfight and not need then to somehow find yourself in that situation and not being able to handle it. I have seen some renderings of the NGAD that has foldable vertical stabilizers for added maneuverability if needed that could be deployed. Although from what I understand that while supposedly being less manuverable, the NGAD certainly won't be a flying brick. Using horizontal stabilizers to create good maneuverability. And I would like to see a gun added, however, I'm certain that the NGAD (and the Navy's equivalent) will be designed to have a laser when that tech become mature. Just a thought. I'm not an aerospace engineer or an Airforce military strategist so I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about. Lol đ
If Russia confronted the U.S. Air Force , the attrition rate of first line pilots will leave Russia with no pilots or trainers to confront China đšđł ir retain pilots lost to attrition
lol Russia has nukes. If it ever escalated to that then it wouldn't matter. Secondly what do you mean confront China? China isn't Russia's enemy or trying to destroy its economy and military.
What I have gathered on as many sources as possible Chinas big problem is lack of true expirience of real conflict.
Thye can boast of well trained troops and pilots and even high tech gadgets they dont have true know how how that be used in the field.
@@FrostWolfPack Correct, experience counts for a lot, that is why Russian jets are getting shot down over Ukraine so easily, they only have half the hours of flying time that the Us has.
ÂčÂčâ€â@@FrostWolfPack
If? Russia is currently taking the largest country in all of Europe with the best farmland. Step up or shut up.
No weapon system stays supreme forever.
F22-â Iâm not going anywhere, Iâm just highly classified and super advanced waiting for shit to pop offâ
The F22 also has stealth IR, the engine is masked, something the chinese and Russians have not been able to do
We canât afford to begin retiring the F22 until the 2030âs when NGAD has at least a dozen operational units. Despite having such a large Air Force, the United States still requires more air power. This is especially true considering very likely future losses from the conflict in Taiwan
Agreed. Having the airframes to assure dominance is one thing. Having the logistical capability to deploy them all to a given theater is very much another. If you canât put numbers in the field, youâre gonna need to replace more losses than youâd otherwise need to replace.
Variety and the ability to adapt is what can dominate.
It wonât be retired, it will remain in support role.
Very likely even tho in smaler scale and maybe even half the fleet be turned spare parts rest hundred or so craft is still larger fleet of planes tan many nations have as their main.
@@FrostWolfPack they will not canibalize the F22. It will serve as a support shock troop for the Ngad fighters which will redefine air superiority.
I watched a war game simulator based on what little we know where 9 NGAD with only 3 human pilots the rest drones, went up again 91, Su 35s and 57s and wrecked the entire air fleet in 30 min while losing only 2 Ngads. Iâve never seen such lopsided air combat. It was unbelievable.
F22 support in this scenario would have sped things up even more.
@@Exile-exe Well I think there be some reduction of the F22 due the lack of infrastructure to resuply the needed parts. Redusing the active fleets size and making rest as spares would reduce the cost keeping them around.
But China alway like to say they ain't worried about the U S ....Till there are đ
It's the U.S worried about China. I think you don't really understand how afraid your politicians are of losing global hegemony and the multipolar world
Go to minute 9:24 if you want to get to the replacement of the F-22. Everything before that is not-so-new-news.
They mustâve seen the aliens if theyâre already replacing that monster
Range has been fixed with the new stealth drop tank program which just took its first flight
All F22s have received their updates which allows them to link with f35s
They now have stealth drop tanks for the F-22
You lost already when you underestimate your enemies.
Just consider that these other countries are getting all excited because they are finally creating planes (sort of) that can start to match the ability of a plane we started making in the 1980's, almost 40 years ago.
The default but yet soo tiring and disappointing YT-format:
A) State an eye catching subject as the headline.
B) Start the content from the birth of the universe and then keep on rambling about anything but the subject in the headline.
I hope this helps you to improve!
My comment will improve your position in the YT-algorithm, I know that but I, I am out now! After 8.45 and without any information received related to the headline! Shame on you!
UnlessâŠ.the astronomical costs for F22 make the Chinese crap their pantsâŠđ
Fill me in if so and I will delete this post.
Regards
Anders
Sweden
HÄller med till 100% sÄ mÄnga personer som gör just detta, tror att denna kanalen har gjort det ett par gÄnger innan med olika videor.
5:58 för mig.
90%+ of CZcams is crap...finding the 10% is why you're here, right?
This is what happens when ai writes the script for you.
Thank you. Saved me 8 minutes.
wholeheartedly agree
I think they should keep some for emergencies. Maybe a special flying op squad or something.
F-22,air frame is already old , I hope the air force has a plan for this and to give it area awareness it may not have now especially IRTS for beyond visual range
Would you intercept me, I'd intercept me. F22 on HBC
This was a great video, I can tell you take the time to research these topics thouroughly
It always struck me as strange that some of the most lethal weapons of war are also some of the most beautiful things ever created. The F-22 and B2/B21 to name just a few are very aesthetically pleasing, and if the renders are anything to go by, the NGAD will be too.
These planes are literally art. I just want to look at and appreciate them every chance I get.
We are a weird species.
Yeah they are bad ass looking and beautiful. The new Corvette C8 even has styling cues from the F22 with its angular look and saw tooth hood opening.
The F-22 is a dominant jet, but ultimately it comes down to dollars and cents.
The F-22 retirement will be like the F-117. It's still flying, but the lack of interest in the 22 will fade away and the NGAD will be the new kid on the block.
I don't see the Air Force letting go of the 22. They'll cut the fleet in half, maybe even up to 2/3rd's. Then people will start to see wrapped up 22's at David Monthans Air Force Base for uses as spare parts.
chinese planes looks like flying toys
Yet, you can't protect your allies.đđ one day Japan, Korea, Philippines, and others side with China.
Ha ha
Gotta make them look cool!
đ
Retiring the Raptor is a mistake and as usual, they are going to realize this when itâs too late.
Highly appreciate the metric units!
Was this made before the stealth external fuel tanks and weapons were made public?
If they're thinking about retiring the F-22, they have stuff that's already 20 or 30 years more advanced tucked away somewhere.
A few years ago there was a call to restart the f22 line and a few allies wanting to purchase some. This was seriously considered. Then they went looking for the custom machine tools and jigs they used. There was suposed to be a few of every common part. These were supposed in a bunch of connex boxes at a few storage yards on us military facilities. Half were empty, publicly there wasn't any releases on what happened, lies/theft/foreign assets. Many see this as the problem that stopped the look into restarting these facilities. Lies, but with some basis in reality. As things were unfolded and looked at, it became obvious this wouldn't be a good idea. Came down to money. The companies that built custom products like microprocessors and many avionics,weren't in business anymore. And what was there needed to be overhauled, there was little infrastructure to do so in a way that would have been acceptable.
The scale on these maps makes me chuckle đ
i love the idea that hte US is retiring a jet to replace it with a better jet, when the rest of hte world is still having some trouble matching that jets predecessor
Every price that was mentioned needs to be doubled if it started today due to real world inflation, not reported inflation.
This means 4th & 4.5 gen will not loose it's relevance.. with stealth missile & drone
Your thumbnail haf nothing to do with the topic. Last time I fall for it.
It makes it hard to want to participate in click bait.
These people don't have to use click bait. Just tell the truth.
The F22 is the best looking aircraft that has ever been designed
Had you gone with the F-23 Black Widow II instead it would still likely be useful.
I thought that they are upgrading existing f22s not replaceing them?
Gen 6 replace Gen 5 like B-21 replace B2
A.I. produced channel guys, though the videos are interesting and well put togetherâŠ
if Boeing has anything to do with the development of the NGAD ... maybe doublecheck the bolts ^^.
Why blame Boeing? The union workers on the assembly lines are building planes that are falling apart.
Ambassador Bridge!!
Just like the f22 the runner up will be better
I hope not. That the generals this time, actually look at ALL the candidate planes and really think this time. They are not going to have "it looks like and F-15 and I like F-15's" as a fall back this time.
Actually if you take a hard look at the YF-23 and the NGAD, you can see that in fact the NGAD is modernized YF-23.
â@@TK199999
I can't wait for military airplane CZcamsrs to start putting out videos after the release of the NGAD on how much better the YF-23 is today and was back then. A true aircraft before it's time.
Look at the exhaust of the B-21, the bottom is like the F-117 and the top part of the exhaust is like the YF-23.
The only reason they retire them is so they can then sell them to other countries. This is a nightmare.
If everyone is using stealth & missiles can't see them, having a gun might be wise.
Excuse me but the F22 now has stealth drop tanks, radically improved avionics, great new electronic warfare capabilities, vastly improved networking qualities a a new helmet system similar to the F35. Also, new stealth sensor pods, better than ever radar, plus more.
Tut Tut. You didn't do your due diligence on this video guys. Your better than that.
From Iowa............................John
Yeah for a freaking billion dollars extra.
In my opinion, they will decommission it, but transfer it to another friendly country, like the Philippines.
Also, nothing beats the U.S. armed forces in terms of combat experience.
9:09 so you're saying that they would be 100 million dollars cheaper than they were when they were in production originally and considering inflation that's probably another 100 million dollars cheaper.
If we've seen anything in the last two years i wouldn't be concerned about Russia or china Russia claims about having good weapons showed to bs in Ukraine wouldn't be surprised if china especially since they never had any combat experience and tested there weapons at all
The F-22 is being replaced by NGAD which will be replaced by the TR-3B Black Manta.
F117 was supposed to be retired. It currently still operates and operated long after it's official retirement. I doubt the F-22 will be retired.
if there is a plane that needs to vanish it is the single engine f-16.. its old, and if that one engine dies, the plane literally lived up to its name, the flying lawn dart.. I think the F-35 has the same fatal flaw.. one engine is great for weight purposes but when that engine dies, you lose the piolot and a huge sum of money that went into making it fly in the first place. as for the A-10, it still has a vital role in close air support that nothing else has managed to match...
IMO the planes kept should be(for air orce only):
1. NGAD
2. f-15
3. a-10
The others had their place and time but thats over now
First, they are not retiring the F22 til 2030. Second. I love the fact rhat china is till trying to catch a plane that was made in the late 80s in competition with another plane that was even more advanced than the f22...(F23). Poor china.....if it wasn't for commie utube....they wouldn't get a mention đ
China's entire military is designed to defend against attack by America.
How stupid can they get, Airforce and navy our getting out of hand.
Also if that is your reason for moving to 5th Gen then sell the plane to other countries since the tech is out dated
The biggest thread to the NGAD is the US Congress.
Threat, not thread.
Retire it? Then send them all to Ukraine.
The 35 is and always will be the ugly step child to the 22.
The 22 is still technologically better than the 35.
The NGAD will do what the 22 did. Bring a huge leap of technology out to the public.
We now know what the exhaust on the B-21 looks like. The bottom of the exhaust is that of the F-117 and the top part of the exhaust is that of the YF-23.
We've now seen pictures of the air inlet without the covering showing the B-21 has 2 engines total.
As for ME.....I was at Edwards Air Force Base during the testing of the YF-22 and YF-23. In fact, we were program YF-23. A much better aircraft overall than the 22.
Anybody who talks about F22 being an incredible and the best machine in a air and at the same time complain about it high costs, do not understand that F22 is the only thing that can keep Russia and China in check up until new NGAD up and running in production line numbers. We want to give our pilots to give the most advantageous jet regardless of the costs.
TL;DR via multiple reports:
The F22 is stupidly expensive due to its super short production run, theres basically no spare parts. The estimated cost of starting up a new run of them would be roughly equal to just developing and fielding a new fighter jet anyway. The F22's systems are not capable of the data links and interconnections that something from this century is built around, such as the F35. Like it or not the F22 was developed in the 80s, it is painfully out of date. The F22 was built to fight a cold war near peer adversary- one that just does not exist any longer. China is a paper tiger and Russia can't conquer its way out of a paper bag.
To summarize even further- the F22 is stupidly expensive to field and we have something better that'll be hitting the skies very shortly. The 22 wont be fully retired until the NGAD fighters are already flying next to them.
And to those who complain about the costs of new fighter jets, adjusted for inflation, the F14 costs more than an F35.
The limited procurement of the F-22 was because of the NGAD. Tech is moving so fast.
No, the limited procurement of the F-22 was due to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Bad idea to bench the f22, ai and drones are also a bad idea, you will never beat a well trained free thinking service man with a decent bit of kit
Pardon my ignorrance, but until you have a functional better aircraft than the F22, should not we keep the F22s in service?
F35 is better than F22 the only F22 advantage over F35 is the stealth.
NGAD has already been built and tested. Will replace the F22.
The official release of ngad to the public is planned later this year
@@shadooks4774 Thats awesome. All told, it was built and tested in one year which is crazy.
So Sonny will be the whole idea
One Ring Controls Them All
4 is hysterical? Maybe 50 on the ready out of 177, but anything less sounds stupid particularly when weighed against the cost?
I think they should just keep the F-22 and not not updated and keep it around for a while like they were going to do I think it's too nice of a plane just to throw away. Sounds like that's what they have in mind anyways. I would imagine parts for that are really expensive I'm sure they stopped making them a while back but they should just probably take one or two of the crappiest ones and just pull parts off it like a junkyard. We don't need no stinking badges!
Oooh boy I remember the "we don't need to dog fight anymore" argument
In most cases ..you won't
Question will the sixth generation get fighter will it have gunsđ
I donât believe they will retire it, they said they were going to retire the A-10 Warthog instead they upgraded graded it so donât believe what you hear đșđž
They just retired 50a10 this year and all will be retired by 2030
F-22 too expensive to maintain, and its additional capability over the F35 is meaningless. Speed and maneuverability are irrelevant in todays battlefield. YF-23 would have been a better option, more range lower IR visibility.
WW3 is basically gonna be China, USA and Russia showing off their alien tech with a pinch of genocide đ
Love how the US think it will just sail up to Taiwan and then attack China. Dont you think china will sink everything in the Pacific or South China sea that comes within a few thousand miles of china.
No. China can't compete. Besides, the US plans to defend Taiwan, not invade China.
29 % of your f 35 are mission capable
I think the US Air Force has to come up with a better name than the Ngad
One problem is that within visual range dogfighting, the F22 is on par with the Typhoon. Another is that the Typhoon can now target the F22 beyond visual range. Good job that they should not meet in anger. F22 is not the "super" plane people think it is. And, the support costs are astronomical.
The F35B can, if needed, be hidden in forests along Nato's border with Russia offering immediate response.
It's not retirement at all...literally none
So is it vulnerable for cyber attack?
đđđđđ I 100% guarantee China knew about this airplane long before you did!!!
As years go by, China cannot catch up w/ the weapons production (air, land & sea) of the QUAD & other Allies as well as more superior technology. The USA with the string of Allies to develop, upgrade & increase weapons production, cannot be overtaken by China. FURTHER the private aircrafts and / or vessels can be re-engineered with weapons (weaponized), that shall prove most advantageous to the USA & ALLIES.
When the ngad is being delivered, the flight goes to space so the battlefield changes again. I understand the need. But imagine what the world would be like if we spent all the money on weapons to advancing humanity instead. But on the flip side, if aliens attack, we will be able to put up a fight.
Honestly, I wouldn't be touching anything from Boeing at this point in time. They're proving that they give zero chits to save a dime. I wouldn't trust them to not do the same everywhere they look.
Thanks for your expert opinion.
@@Thatdamnsmith
They wouldn't need to kill a guy for telling the world they're building chit products if they weren't building chit products....
@@vladdracul2379 all I said was thank you. Didnât say anything in particular about the context of your comment.
Great
there gonna release 6th generation,f22 was Started about 30 years and old tech by todays standards
I think the U.S. taxpayer is even more terrified.
Not at all.
I got a tax refund đ€·đż
Not even a little bit. These bad boys will make our enemies think twice and I get cool ass air shows
so much wasteful spending
â@Blackreaper95 not the flex you think it is.
F-22 Lighting PC game (decades ago) was the game the woke me up to how powerful a jet it really was. BUT you should see the capability of the new drone fighters, that can pull g-forces that make them appear to stop mid air.
They had F-22 interceptor flight SIM for the Sega Genesis too. I loved that game. And yes that plane was unstoppable. I was 16 when that cam came out.
Are you speaking about the "capabilities" of the drone fighters in a GAME?