A Tank Enthusiast Reacts: The Scorpion From Halo Reach
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2022
- #Eta320 #tanks #history #reaction #halo
Welcome to the next episode of TER! A series in which I, Eta320, take a look at some of the craziest tanks in the wild world of video games. Some are good, some are bad, and some are just plain crazy!
In todays episode I'm looking at the Scorpion from Halo: REACH. And strap in friends, because I have a lot to say about this one!
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Spookston: • Everything wrong with ...
GameSpot: • Firearms Expert Reacts...
Royal Armouries: • What made Britain's at...
Insider/The_Chieftain: • Military Tank Expert R... (LET IT BE KNOWN, MY FIRST EPISODE OF THIS SERIES CAME OUT BEFORE THIS) :)
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- / potentialhistory
- / militaryhistory - Zábava
Hey all! A few notes with this video. This is my first major production after switching to a new editing software, and I think I still have some tweaking to do with the export settings because I'm a bit disappointed in the visual quality of this video, but no matter, I get my points across. Expect better quality in the future. Also, I released this video early for all my discord members, so if you'd like the same treatment, check it out! discord.gg/n9bMyt4uKM
As for the video itself. My discord members have already made me aware of a few things that I'd just like to respond to here.
"The coax machine gun is usable in Halo CE" - Yes it is, and without the open bow machine gun turret as well! I specifically reacted to the Halo: Reach Scorpion because I wanted to bring up the VVSS, and this model had the best view of it.
"The 4 track pods are powered with their own electric motors, and the engine is a hydrogen powered turbine engine that delivers insane power" - Still doesn't solve the weight issue and the single hinge connection point. Also a turbine engine? It sure doesn't sound like it.
"The ammo is actually stored in the turret." - How the heck does the tank in the game have such a large ammo capacity!?!?!?
"Being air deployable doesn't make it a light tank. And the Grizzly isn't an MBT its supposed to be a heavier special use vehicle." - True, however like I say, the Scorpion has many characteristics that tie it to the scout/recon/light tank role, at least more than it has for an MBT. As for the Grizzly, fair enough. Then the UNSC needs to get a new MBT.
Wait does that mean that the engines are supposed to be covered in the tracks?
React to the UNSC Cobra Tank
I would suggest watching the Installation00 most detailed breakdown video on it. It covers pretty much a lot of what you've brought up though I don't know if he talks about the transmission. He does go over the engine etc though.
Scorpion drivers are neurally linked to the machine so you could essentially see through the gun sight like a heads up display and be controlled just by looking around. I don't know if that is exactly how it works but it is just a suggestion.
the scorpion uses a hydrogen fuel engine (combustion) so maybe the engine could be very small and then the middle could be used for the auto loader...?
Of all the things that 343, the Halo 5 scorpion is honestly the least horrid redesign and most realistic upgrade
I think I can answer the transmission problem pretty conclusively. The answer is not to have a transmission. You do this by going electric, electric motors can be effectively mounted inside the wheel and only need a cable connection to function and offer a number of advantages assuming you can overcome the fuel energy density problem (which is almost certain in the halo universe) In addition to not needing a transmission electric motors offer far better torque for their weight and energy use than a transmission would, which you have to know is important in an armored vehicle, a further advantage would be independent control, since you're already doing away with complicated transmission systems you don't need complicated gearing, and you can use the motors themselves as a sort of virtual differential, and run different track sets at different speeds or in different direactions for various reasons. Another advantage is distributed drive systems, with motors in the pods themselves only relying on a power cable it's much harder to knock out the tank's drive system completely because you either have to knock out it's power plant, or take out four different motors in four different spots.
Building off of this except for the independent MG on the hull. I think this is more designed for gameplay purposes than for legitimate tank purposes. In Halo CE and Halo 2, the drive would have control of the Coaxial MG on the head of the Tank alongside the cannon. Although later on I think it was changed to an independent MG and then the driver only controlling the Main Tank cannon for maybe encouraging teamwork? Or something of the sort. If you look at Halo 2 - CE scorpions, alongside maybe some from the Halo Wars’s (RTS) they may show the full coaxial MG being used.
Honestly it wouldn't be impossible to use driveshafts, if the sprockets are all on the pivot point you could think of each pivot like the wheel on a car, then between the front and back pivot you would have a differential and connecting the differentials you can either use a transfercase or a transmission with a built in transfercase to divert power to the front and back, not unlike the drive systems used on AWD off-road vehicles, that could also work for steering, lock the pivots on one side and the differentials will divert power to the other side.
Also for the MG turret, he says many tanks have had MG turrets but none were ever fully open.
I have a tank that does have a complete open-top MG turret, the LVT used in landing operations in the pacific, another thing too, the "Higgins" boats used in D-Day, the ones where the door drops down in the front, those also had 2 Open top MG turrets on the back corners for infantry support
@@I_want_White_Cheddar_Popcorn Bruh the LVT isn't a tank, it's in the name, Landing Vehicle Tracked
@@Bladsmith there is a version of that's a tank, THAT one is the LVT I'm referencing, its the LVT(A)(1) and maybe even the LVT(A)(4) if you dont want to call it an SPG
The reason the scorpion tank has a smaller cannon is most likely because it wasn't designed to fight other tanks. It was designed to be used against insurgents in all forms of terrain rural, urban, and remote. As for why it is a main battle tank is because it was cheaper and more effective than the heavier tanks like the grizzly with more overall firepower, the rhino with experimental plasma weaponry, and the cobra with its main armament being railguns. Today, no the scorpion is no main battle tank, but in the 2400s-2500s it would be the tank of choice for a humanity that is in a war with a stronger opponent and losing.
Also wanted to mention that the Covenant didn't have a main battle tank either because wraiths were mortar batteries, locusts and scarabs are excavators (an argument could be made that they are over sized hunters) and revenants fall in the same category as wraiths just being smaller.
If anyone finds any information wrong or otherwise untrue, let me know and I'll fix it.
Nah, you're on point.
Soo, the Scorpion is the T-34 of Halo but without the horrors.
@@EdyAlbertoMSGT3 oh there's horrors alright, but usually just external and glassing plantets
Specifically, it's a MARINE main battle tank, the standards of Marine equipment being distinctly different to the Army.
@@nightraven836 Thank you for clarifying
The suspension is also in the Warthog's rear axle/axles. The lore functionality is that neither vehicles have traditional components. The armor itself is comprised of an ungodly durable Titanium Tungsten Alloy, is propelled by a cryostasis cooled Hydrogen Compression Engine, has an infinitely variable gearless transmission, and uses an Electromagnetic Friction Suspension system. The Warthog in specific uses the electromagnetic suspension for those rear axles. This also means that the power to the wheels are also electromagnetically transferred, meaning little to no gears. The Scorpion, meanwhile, uses the electromagnetic drive to extend the movement of the tracks. There's no...lore behind how the spoke gets the power, but I am of the assumption that the electro drive is mounted to the spoke itself. Also, not every model uses the instantaneous sex appeal of the VVSS.
*Also extra side note, the reason why a 90mm cannon is used in the Scorpion is that the ignition for each round is plasma based in nature, leading to a much more efficient burn and a higher velocity. Also, each shell is technically an overpressured shell. The US military's been experimenting with such a capability, just look at the HSTV-L. The HSTV-L has a 76mm bore that had the same penetration values of the Abrams at the time, ~470mm of penetration. Smaller rounds means more rounds and a more robust autoloader*
*PPS, the HSTV-L could spew 470mm pen Depleted Uranium Shells every .85 seconds at full tilt.*
funny thought,
the british FV101 Scorpion is a light tank and has a variant with a 90mm Cockerill
it's also got a rear placed turret and a driver seat front-left
The Scorpion is actually a 2 man tank, the empty front area youd find in the front ks where the 2nd person sits and its likely that is where the gunner sits. Reason whybit seems like a 1 man vehicle is that lore wise spartans have a sort of nueral uplink thing which allows rhem tk drive and gun at the same time when a normal person would be overloaded
The Stridsvagn 103 could be Operated by one person, since the driver had to aim the gun anyway, and it was fitted with an autoloader. The Crew also had Duplikate controls.
We also might see this coming Back with more modern Designs, Like the KF-51, wich has duplicate controls.
aperantly the HSTV-L could also be operated by one man
If I remember correctly, the Stridsvagn 103, during development the designers were pushing for a simple two-man crew but the military pushed back and said it needed to be at least 3 man because they wanted a dedicated Commander.
But correct me if I'm wrong
@@kocant1274 only if that one man is Spookston
@@clonescope2433 pretty correct tbh, but it still could be operated by 1 if needed, since both the commander and gunner/driver had the same controls to operate the main gun and movement
"incredibly light"
"This here is sixty-six tonnes of HE-spewin' dee-vine intervention! If god is love then you can call me Cupid!"
If I remember correctly I read something that stated the scorpion is a 200-300 year old design. And the UNSC had more advanced tanks that were lost in fighting to the covenant. The tree why it is outdated the new stuff is gone or being repaired. It’s cheaper to likely build that older cheaper design
It is normal, the UNSC usually uses systems and weapons from centuries ago, an example is the ammunition that it uses in its weapons such as the assault rifle
I think the Scorpion as its portrayed in Halo: Combat Evolved solves a few of the issues, specifically the issue of having an exposed gunner- instead it has a usable coaxial machine gun, the wheels are hidden, the neck is thicker, and if memory serves is smaller than portrayed in Reach.
Same goes with Halo 2
I was always annoyed by the fact that the CE Scorpion had no hull mg, and also annoyed that Scorpions in some other games lack the coax for whatever reason.
what people forget is that its not the size of the cannon that matters, its the speed of the projectile and ammo used.
tungsten is known to be the toughest & heaviest metal on earth.
the scorpions tungsten shell is propelled at such velocities that it leaves a vapor trail behind it.
at such a velocity, I see no reason why it would not destroy vehicles in one shot.
this is the reason it became an MBT.
because it eliminated traditional MBTs in crew, material, funding & training costs, with supreme survivability.
it was produced in massive numbers & can do all the tasks all tank types are supposed to do. & it does it excellently
the scorpion can survive/ resist getting shot by *Plasma* repeatedly.
you know the stuff the SUN is made out of.
as for ammunition it is stored right beside the pilot & tucked is under the engine so that fire & heat does not touch it & covered by the armor / additional protection provided by the tracks.
this is why when it catches fire it does not blow it turret off, its stuffed full of heat resistant materials.
Size does matter quite a bit, as not only do larger projectiles keep their momentum over longer distances, but also a larger shell means more propellant, so you can shoot at those higher velocities. Yes, velocity is the ultimate goal, but to get velocity and keep velocity over distance, the shell needs to be big enough. Its a balancing act. American experimentation with the 57mm M1 AT gun in WWII is a good example of this.
That's why Sabot ammunition is currently the best of both worlds. Large shell and powder capacity, with a smaller projectile. The momentum thing is accounted for by the Sabot projectiles aerodynamics and stabilizing fins. But the Scorpion doesn't fire sabot ammunition, since it has an explosive effect when hitting targets. I'm not entirely sure what ammo the scorpion fires.
Being shot by plasma is something nobody has ever been able to test in the real world (in the context of tank vs tank fighting), so there isn't any research I can refer to. But, if I had to guess, surviving against plasma is going to be mostly dependent on your armors' heat dissipation capabilities. Since these are energy based projectiles, not kinetic. So its no longer about how thick or tough your armor is, its about how quickly can it dissipate heat across its surface. A pretty reasonable composite armor could easily do this, a technology we have today.
I saw a diagram somewhat recently that claimed the Scorpions ammo is stored in its cheeks, just as I guess in the video. This makes the most sense to me, as you could easily explain the scorpion having some sort of revolver mechanism similar to the AMX-13. With its cylinders hidden in the cheeks of the turret. If the ammo is in the hull, I would be curious what mechanisms the tank has that are able to pull the ammo up from the hull, through the neck of the turret, and into the canon breech. Especially with a 3-4 second reload rate like we see in the game.
It doesn't matter where in relation to the engine the ammunition is, if the ammo and the engine are being kept in the same compartment within the tank, that is an incredibly bad idea. Stuffing the compartment with heat resistant materials is all good, but if the tank gets penetrated and the ammo takes a hit, the ammo will explode regardless.
Keep in mind, the whole point of this series is to take these vehicles which were designed with video game logic in mind, and bring them into the real world with current technology, and think about if they would work. And the answer is unsurprisingly "no" most of the time.
I'm sure in the Halo universe, the Scorpion is the best tank humanity has ever built. And in Halo, it can do all these amazing things and be incredibly survivable and fast and can one shot everything. But, if we were to build the Scorpion or a tank like it right now in the real world. I don't think it would be a good tank.
@@eta320 i don't think you understand, plasma has kinetic energy & mass to it, its not just a simple energy weapon like a laser which is just coherent light, it has enough temperature difference to cause metal to explode.
the sun is made of plasma, it will melt anything & everything, it wont care what you are made of.
anything hit by plasma should & will turn into a superheated mess of fluids.
if a tank was hit by plasma you'd be lucky to find the tracks & wheels, never mind the tank, anything left would be molten puddle of goop.
& anything superheated also explodes due to the extreme differences in temperature.
For the autoloader being that fast, the Japanese Type 90 and Type 10 tanks have a 120mm gun that reloads in roughly 3.3 seconds
wow
27:09 i think it might actually be speaking to pelicans capabilities, it's capable of space flight and atmospheric entry, and I think it may be capable of returning to space though im not certain on that. if it is capable of that, look at what we need today to go to space, big giant rockets
10mm cannon on the scorpion I WOULD PAY TO SEE THAT
The tracks would probably be moved by electric motors and be made using composite materials to keep the weight down.
The suspension could be split between two different suspensions, one on the roller wheels and the other between the track module and the main body. This system woulderseem like a nightmere to fix, but my guess is that you would replace the full module, and since you have 4 separate tracks it's harder to get immobilized.
The gun is probably shooting ridiculously fast projectiles since its hitscan, so the calibre could be intentionally smaller for logistical and design reasons.
The ammunition storage could be anyware in the tank and be supplied by a belt since the turret loads fully automatically or in the turret for safety reasons.
Now about the crew, unless there is a significant amount of automation, this should be a 2 man tank (Driver/Commander & Gunner) the other roles could be replaced by complex automated systems but the turret could remain and act as a spotter since they clearly dont have any self preservation instinct left as we can see by the marines glued on the tanks tracks mid fight acting as improvised armor.
And the in universe definition of main battle tank is probably different from ours, if you consider they are fighting across diferent pranets and have to constantly airdrop the tanks into battle and pick them up after it ends, so I see a focus on portability would be more important for a main battletank while heavier tanks like the grizly and rhino are more specialized. Think that the priorities would be closer to what the original US marines needed rather than the army.
Hey Eta, I was wondering if you would be willing to react to the Leman Russ main battle tank from Warhammer 40k. It tends to give tank enthusiasts a headache, so I think it would be pretty entertaining for a video to see what all of the problems with it are. I'd recommend not looking too hard at the official stats for it, though. For example, the official technical specifications list it as a 120mm cannon when its FAR more than than, estimated to be between 300-400mm. The stats were written by people who knew nothing about tanks and they don't work with most canon depictions of the vehicle.
Something I seem to see a lot is the misconception that the autoloader is the reason for Russian tanks catastrophically exploding and popping their turrets. Needless to say, popped turret or not, if your ammo gets hit, you are not having a good day. However, the autoloader is low in the turret where it is least likely to be hit, it's actually the extra ammo stored around the tank that gets hit and triggers the catastrophic ammo explosion. I recommend Military History Visualized's video on it for more info.
yes, it is crew men propping the tank with all 42 shells instead of taking what the carousel have. the carousel is also way below where most hits land on the tank. you cant do much against top attack if ERA doesnt stop it.
I think the scorpion was inspired by the TCM AGS light tank it has a few similarities with the scorpion like the crewless turret, the autoloader system and it's small crew compliment and it was ment to be deployable from cargo aircraft like C-130s or C-17s
The AE Phase 1 & 2 were prototype designs that had 4 tracks, I don't believe any were built due to complexity but are interesting regardless. The Phase 1 is also featured in World of Tanks.
I am not entirely sure, but iirc then the Swedish Strv 103 was capable of being operated by a single person too, with driver, commander/ gunner and radio operator / reverse driver all having controls for all tasks in their seats so that they could all fill all roles should need may be
7:29 "wait, why are there 6 pedals if there are only 4 directions?" -Caboose
Lol
I love your channel and like your shirt man. Believe in yourself even if no one else does, and never mess with Sasquatch.
i just discovered your channel and it's awesome. Can you react to these next:
Both tanks from Crackdown 3
RAGE 2 Xerxes III
Quake Wars Titan tank
the various tanks from Battlezone 98
Ballard M5B1 Scout from Just Cause 1
STAG tank from Saints Row 3
Goliath and Ion Plasma Tank from Unreal Tournament 2K4
That’s a big list, I will certainly add them all to my own list of vehicles to react to for this series! Thanks so much for watching!
The UNSC employed Scorpions to fight insurgents and stomp out colonial uprisings. It isn't the biggest, toughest tank in their arsenal, but it can be mass produced and deployed more efficiently for said job.
When the Covenant declared war, there was no time nor resources to reinvent the wheel and come up with new designs. Humanity was literally fighting a losing struggle for it survival.
And of course, which tanks the UNSC have plenty of just lying around at the time? The Scorpion hence inadvertently became the "Main" tank of the army, as it just so happened to be enough of them to deploy, and them being just beefy enough to stand up to the alien advanced weapons. It ability to be mass produced and transported via drop ships are desirable in an interstellar theater.
The Scorpion isn't the best tank, but it became the hope and endurance for the soldiers fighting that losing battle. They feel relieved when the Scorpions roll up to the field. The Scorpion is a *patriotic* tank, in a manner of speaking. The men trust the Scorpion, and that goes a long way in keeping morale up.
There's also the lobbying and backroom dealings that the manufacturer make, especially the "iconic, soldier's best friend" angle they must of leaned onto. The same was done with the Warthog after all, being even more iconic in-universe as much as out of it.
My guess is that the round being fired is in an HE round, but rather an MPAT, or a sufficiently futuristic equivalent. I've done a little testing, both many years ago, and fairly recently to make sure, and I have concluded that the round does more damage on a direct hit, than the AOE damage would by just being that little bit closer.
This also makes sense in the sense of the tank being one-man, with such a rapid rate of fire. The "pilot"(as I believe is a more encompassing term) already has enough to deal with, driving, shooting, etc. Further complicating the pilot's job by introducing specialized ammo, when the round being used is sufficient, is completely unnecessary.
Also, the shells use plasma technology, at the very least for the propellant, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine the explosive load would also incorporate some plasma tech, maybe explaining the fireball?
Id counter your point with the scorpion not being an mbt with the UNSC's doctrine.
Being an interplanetary fighting force, all of their equipment needs to be air mobile and deployable through either pelicans or larger dropships to and from their space ships.
The scorpions small gun allows more ammo, and considering the unsc's very good manufacture of metal and composite materials a good anti tank shell could be made.
And as for its weight, its 40 tons atleast, you were right in saying it speaks more for the pelican that the tank is airmobile, infact a pelican dropship is larger than a c130, and can fit a full abrams in its cargo bay sans seating. It is a massive beast with rediculous engine strength.
Perhaps all the open gunner seats and such things were to show that this is farther in the past, to show some mistakes that had not been worked out yet, also I love the 4 track design, I assume that it is to provide resundancies
LOL I can see the scorpion tank as a scout vehicle😂
You should check out the M35 Mako from mass effect. Though officially designed an all-terrain IFV, the Mako is the workhorse of an interplanetary military that relies heavily on rapid reaction forces with speed, mobility and flexibility on any terrain and in any environment being central to their tactics. Tactics that aren't suitable to a tank. As such, the Mako is the ultimate multi-role military vehicle able to operate independently or in a unit and in addition to it's role as an IFV, it can also effectively fill the role of an MBT, APC, assault gun, scout tank, exploration rover and even a limited dropship role. It's also designed to operate literally anywhere.
I do agree with you on the statement that it resembles the amx 13 but it also looks more like the tcm ags
Really enjoyed the video. I have my own opinions of course but I really liked the input and insight into something I’ve grown to be attached to across such a long time. Keep it up and never let anyones negative input or interactions deter you from producing or putting out your work into the universe. Happy holidays and peace to you from me my friend
8:30 if I were to guess the engine is mounted backwards directly under the turret where it has a car like transmission that has a driveshaft with 2 sets of differentials kind of like the Henisee Vilocoraptor 6x6 or a more familiar example would be any 6by6 deuce and a half variant. I just think each set of tracks would also have to have it's own clutch to avoid from completely shredding the differentials as the track hinges up and down.
A few point I feel should be mentioned in regards to the lore.
The scorpion is stated as only being 66t, and would make heavy use of titanium armour.
The main gun is only 90mm, however many other guns in the halo universe use relatively small calibres with very high energy outputs. It is not specifically stated, but it is theorised that a very advanced form of propellant is used in universe, allowing more power from a relatively small package.
Also, the tracks are in fact electric, powered by batteries charged from a hydrogen turning engine, eliminating the need for a complex driveline
I like the low profile hull with the high turret, allowing fire over cover. I dont actually have many problems with the scorpion other than it being slow in game and the exposed mg turret, though you could argue its for quick in and out like when they take all the doors off a humvee
Literally have no knowledge of tanks, nor have I ever cared too much about them, but you made me sit through this entire video. You’re clearly knowledgeable and passionate, good stuff man
this is a great video, although i must say there is one tank that i think the scorpion took inspiration off of, the Teledyne Continental Motors ags, take a scorpion remove the 4 track pods add 2 crew move the engine to the front and thats basically it, autoloaded 105 gun with oscillating turret and driver position in an almost identical spot to the scorpion too
I was also thinking of AGS when he said he didnt know any tank that look like scirpion tonk. And its far future scifi game. Anyone can say its a fusion powered engine, dark matter engine and the engine is so efficient it can run the tank with a small engine and the entire back of the tank can be filled with ammo
@@toqup_inua8023 i believe canonically it actually uses a hydrogen engine, same with the warthog and uses an electric transmission to drive it
your stuff is really good to just vibe with
Another great use of the four independent track sets is the ability to "land on its feet" when dropped from an aircraft in a hot zone.
I thought the scorpion was design due to the idea its space battle oriented, its ready to battle for all conditions. Quad tracks is a design for the quick deployment readyness for being airdropped. My thoughts might be wrong.
Specifically a Marine mindset.
@@nightraven836 i dont know how i have a marine mindset just thinking of replacing a track from a misdrop sounds vunerable, also costs of keeping tanks in colonies sounds expensive thats why i think 90mm(however the amunition is very questionable) is visable over the 105, there is no armor to need a 105mm gun
You should take a look at the Halo 5 Scorpion, since it has a much(ish) different design to the other games.
To be fair
I think the scorpion is heavily based off of the stryker mobile gun system
They both have a remote controlled turret that auto loads the gun
They also both have a verry similar hull shape
I reccon if you slapped 4 individual tracks and slapped them onto the side of a Stryker you would have a verry accurate looking scorpion
(Even if the stryker came out a year after the first halo)
I think how the cannon is achieving its incredible firepower. I believe the ammunition is a three stage thermoboric high velocity penetrator. I'm no expert but that may be the direction they went.
very interesting comparison with the amx-13, it actually does feel and looks like a tank destroyer of sorts (like the Kürassier) and I never noticed the problems with the hinged track sections, I just didn't like the 4 tracks because of the maintenance issues (and if they break one track it'll still likely be a mobility kill), also the smaller cannon can make sense if thanks to future tech (tm) you could have punchier ammo, either with more penetration or more explosives, in a smaller package, the smaller ammo would help making the autoloader as fast as it is, lastly I think the Stridsvagn 103 could theoretically be crewed by 1 person? not that it would be even remotely feasible... ok rant over love your channel so far, hope you take a look to things like the EDF tanks
Yo I love how he says this thing is done incorrectly and then begins to speak the process into existence thus talking himself into it😂
One reason behind using a 90mm cannon might not have to do with the actual size of the round, but the ammunition. The Chieftain often says the advancement of ammunition dictates the cannons on the tank using them. Since we dont have exact specifics of the ammo being used in the Scorpion (i.e. Propellent, shape, other materials) is possible that in 500 years, advancements in ammunition means the need for a larger diameter barrel is no longer necessary. The propellants and round itself have excelled so much, that they are capable of giving the performance of a larger diameter shell but kept to a smaller size. Maybe this future 90mm round has the same if not more kinetic energy than a modern 120, 125, or 130mm gun of today's standards. Which makes sense if you think about it, a smaller round means you can carry or store more rounds in the same space as larger ones. So thats just my argument is all, that the reason its 90mm and not larger is because the rounds themselves have advanced so much, that they can perform the duties or better than current larger diameter cannons.
the UNSC military's common use of those scorpion type tanks of theirs....
....
basically being the 'more (less) maneuverable' (-- from an old GRDN-FT-players' playlist) version of the City drake tanks' still.
Awesome video as always mate, very high production values, you spoil us.
As for the Scorpion, I’ve always felt like it should be a hover tank for some reason. I don’t hate the design, but it feels too much thought was put into making it look futuristic and not enough into making it something that could believably work. Which is a shame, the Warthog seems an entirely believable workhorse by comparison.
My therory on the Scorpion tank that the tracks are wide enough to house eletric motors within the sprocket wheel assembly. Being in the future, they might got the size down and the power up to mount it where it needst to be mounted.
The scropion's main gun cant be judged. The UNSC military was centered around fighting rebel insurgents before covenant war.
26:55 halo has always been off with its scaling of things. In canon the pelican is like 110 feet long and it's troop bay is large enough to fit an Abrams.
Also, the newest model of scorpion, which shows up in Halo 5, is only 30 tons and has a 150mm canon.
Even if the Scorpion is a glass Cannon it is still an Abrams killer and there aren't many examples of those today😂
Hopefully, this is helpful. Just comments on tank design as a whole.
Russian autoloaders are usable designs, reliable, and available on mass it's why they're popular. People forget images of Iraqi T54s and T62s with turrets blown off yet... no autoloader. Any tank with rounds in the hull can launch the turret, It's not solely a Russian problem. Leopard 2, Challenger, even the Leclerc have ammo in the hull, and I've seen plenty of Turkish Leopards 2 with their turrets detached without the crew comforts. The only tank modern tanks with complete ammo separation I know are the STRV103 and Abrams, yet Suadi Abrams have lost crew to ammo detonations as well. Tank designers understood that most ammunition detonations come with ammunition stored in the turret because the turrent is the most likely to be hit. Americans designers moved all the ammo into a protected rack. Soviet/Russian designers moved the rounds as low and away from danger as possible. So, why do Russian tanks lose their turrets? Same as any other tank... because tanks happen to have ammo inside... and then the ammo went boom.
Any sufficient enough blast will knock out a tank regards of where you store ammo. An air to ground missile, top attack missile, guided bomb... doesn't matter the nation, doesn't matter the tank, doesn't matter the ammo storage... the crew is not walking away. If any tank round, rpg, or hand grenade goes down the hatch... It's a problem for those inside. If something enters the inside of a tank, the soldiers usually expire even if the ammo doesn't go off. Modern combat is exceedingly deadly, arguably more so than ever before, and well trained crews with good commanders, lots of supply, and sustainable ops tempo are more survivable. A badly crewed Leopard 2 is going to be less effective than a good crewed T62... but neither is going to survive a missile, launched by an adequate drone pilot (the only warfighter who sleeps at home in bed every night).
As for the Scorpion ya, it's a unique tank, the kaboom is very satisfying, and 'Alexa play Halo 2 soundstrack'. Thank you, I wish you all an explosive day (keep away from volatiles and combat).
21:50 The swedish Bkan with a 155mm had an auto loader loading one round every 3.2 seconds roughly
i think the scorpion has a weird donut shaped engine, with the ammo depot below and in the center of the engine
Should be noted the original amx-13 is 75mm not 90mm.
I would argue that the Carousel design was great for the time, as it lowers the ammo, and during testing the ammo that would ignite was outside of the auto loader. Arguably earlier autoloaders that were unprotected in the turret were not safe due to most rounds hitting the turret, otherwise yes, blow out panels are great and dont work on the carousel so point is still there.
I'll watch them I like how people sell grade the advancements of five hundred years in the future comparing it to what we have now as if we've mastered the technology that just came out a year ago😂
So question about the cannon size. Could it be possible that they cut down the diameter of the cannon, so they could use higher velocity rounds? Canonically energy shields like the covenant uses are very good at absorbing ballistic projectiles but thinner faster rounds can bypass the shield somewhat, like the Sniper Rifle's SABOT rounds.
Sorry posted before the end of vid. But question still stands
SABOT solves this problem. With APFSDS ammunition and other SABOT types, the size of the projectile can remain as small and aerodynamic as you want, nowadays what the diameter of the cannon really dictates is velocity. Raising the size of the cannon allows you to make use of bigger shells that utilize more propellant, which can launch the SABOT to higher speeds.
In fact, the best case scenario is one in which you have a shell that can have as much propellant as possible (to launch the round as fast as possible out of the barrel), with as small and aerodynamic of a projectile as possible (to retain the speed and achieve maximum penetration). So even in this case, a 90mm gun is still rather lackluster. If you're going to be shooting a SABOT type projectile either way, might as well use a bigger cannon that can hold larger shells for more power.
@@eta320 that's a good point. I was thinking perhaps it's a monetary thing. "90mm works so why make it bigger, we could use the money/materials for something else." But that's just my 2 cents. Love the video glad it was recommended, and thanks for the reply.
@@varnasblade another advantage i can also think of is having more ammunition due to is smaller size allowing more space in the storage.
17:54 that image and my newfound knowledge of that thing’s existence will definitely haunt my dreams from now on.
Tbh it looks sick
FINALLY, someone acknowledges our modernized Stuart in all it's goofiness.
I still don't know why we did it tho
I've let this video marinate in my brain for a bit and I came up with a few things to say that I hope are interesting.
I think i've found a potential answer for the gun and ammo stowage. Now this is entirely conjecture and theorizing based on my pre-343 EU knowledge of the setting, so its canonicity is probably nonexistent, but its i find a realistic possibility. That 90mm probably is hitting about as hard as a 105 or something of that size. Throughout the extended universe, i recall the UNSC being shown to possess explosives and propellants far more efficient than what we realistically have available with notably higher weight to payload ratios, with some man-portable varieties of demo charges able to single handedly demolish fairly large structures.
Its entirely possible that they managed to compact down the projectile diameter and the case size/length while retaining the effectiveness of the larger bore weapons. Which is a theoretically sound notion, and makes logistical sense for the UNSC given their nature as an expeditionary organization, not unlike the actual United States Marine Corps that they are based on. The same pressures that made the Americans in WW2 make the design choices they did or the USMC's current moves likely apply to the UNSC as well. They need to move as much as possible, in a very limited space. And this idea of compacting the package into a smaller size would also help in another way, solving where in god's name does this tank keep its ammo and how much. Probably the turret cheeks, but I can't personally see how the gun has any more than around 30 rounds of ammo with 15 in each cheek even with this explanation. Give or take one or two rounds per cheek. Which isn't strange by modern standards but it is a bit concerning for something like the role that the Scorpion falls into, which is as you said the light tank role. That means you're dumping 90% of your rounds at targets the infantry want gone. Now having 105 performance in a smaller package is bad for an MBT because...you still have a 105. You don't need a compact 105 in an MBT. For an air-deployable armored fire support and combat recon platform however...it looks a lot more enticing no?
Also on another point, can we just take a moment to look at how awful the driver's hatch is? If there's any outwards deformities of the plating in front of the operator's compartment then that hatch is going to get stuck in the closed position. It also appears to me that the hatch is itself, *powered*. I don't need to explain why that would be a really bad thing. I feel like nuking the sliding design would be the first thing to do especially given how melty Covenant weapons are.
Honestly, you see this theme play out a lot in halo, but the Scorpion has always felt like a last-generation expeditionary/counter-insurgency tank(and the same could be said of weapons like the anti-material rifle and the rocket launcher), that got pressed into the role of an MBT, because A. it had the armor to fit into the MBT role in spite of it's lighter weight, and B. Because it was the only tank they had to hand to fit the role for most of the games, and so the MBT it shall be.
First off:
Your level of research and understanding is quite good. You have a passion and your ability to share is engaging. I’m an armor nut, but specifically WWII. Your details on the French AMX and LeClerc were a revelation to me. Thank you.
I’m a Halo nut and always despised the Scorpion. Too slow is my biggest complaint.
It is so futuristic that contemporary doctrine has most looking at Scorpion and just saying WTF? I just can’t wrap my notion of AFV’s around that tank.
Cannon is too small, machine guns are horribly ineffective, armor not really any better than Chief’s Mjolnir suit.
In the lore the design is 300 years old lol
so halo has a light tank called the M700 Viper. figured id put that out there
though theirs not a huge size difference it is smaller
I mean, all we can see of the suspension is the externals. Yes they look similar, even very similar, to the one from the 1930s, but until we can see the internals, I will not assume they have identical insides.
You cannot dodge it forever, you know for a fact the wackiest, coolest, and best-made tanks reside within Warpath
HSTVL could auto load very quickly great video tho
One tank design i would love to see get a review is the Centaur tank from the Gears of War games. I think it looked like a very advanced Gragoon 90 or the LAV-150 and I believe is greatly overshadowed by the rest of the gaming community.
i am going to play devils advocate only because i can see a few ways that this design might actually work
first off i can see the treds NOT being mechanically driven by the engine however the engine would work more like a generator
this brings me to why the treds would be so wide and that would be motors on each of the "wheel suspension mechanisms" using many motors to move one tred
secondly the engine could be next to the driver with heat exchangers near the turret and that whole area bellow the turret be segmented ammo storage
if i may make a suggestion for a video idea "making the scorpion tank work"
Unless it's the size of a house most unsc vehicles can be dropped by pelicans
There is canonically only *one* Scorpion variant being capable of being air deployable. The M808B is far lighter, far more lightly armored, and far quicker than most other Scorpion variants
M820 Scorpion
Length: 10.2 meters (33 ft)
Width: 8.5 meters (28 ft)
Height: 5.7 meters (19 ft)
Mass: 31.7 metric tons (31.2 LT; 34.9 ST)
maybe they use energy shell? that can fix the engine and ammo store problem. the auto load maybe actually a cooling system?
17:54 what the actual fuck is this cursed metal machine
Best channel
I can think of a tank that had those open MG turrets with just a shield mounted on the gun in a small plate. But again, old vehicle and one that fills a very specific niche. One of the old LVTs. Which were amphibious tanks from WW2 designed to support landing invasions. But these guns weren't meant for firing at ground units who can give accurate fire back, they were lighter MGs, mounted facing backwards, meant to provide very light anti air support if they're being strafed, and the shields were mostly there to protect from shrapnel, not direct fire.
Also, with the smaller gun, you forgot the 'future' excuse. There is a valid reason for this. Something we could possibly see in our own, real world's future.
So basically, as we get a better understanding of chemistry, we can get better propellants and better explosives that can be made more and more compact. Some day, we may very well have a 90mm HEAT round that can do just as well, if not better than a 120mm HEAT round. And as you get the rounds smaller, you can fit more of them into a vehicle, as of course they're smaller, and they're also lighter, meaning you can fit even more ammo into a tank. And if it's a single person tank, you don't need the extra room for crew, so you can hold EVEN more ammo. Ontop of that, lighter ammo means a lighter autoloader can more quickly handle those lighter rounds. Not to mention, the lighter the round, the less mass it has, the less time it takes for that round to reach it's target, doesn't need as much power to force it own the barrel and through the air.
Just like how over the past even just few years, computers have gotten smaller. Used to be, you'd need a warehouse to house a computer. Now we can fit them in our pocket, and these computers can even do MORE than those warehouse sized computers could do. Sure, we could use a warehouse to build an even more powerful computer with our modern equipment, and the size of the warehouse to it it in could mean more power than we can fit into a pocket size device, but... *why would you?* Bigger doesn't always mean better, if it works, it works. And it's much cheaper to go with what works than it is to see how much you can get away with.
Also, as to the whole one person operation thing, while it puts a bit more stress on the operator, having to watch the various screens for aiming, driving, watching possible other cameras that could show around the tank like a commander's view type thing, lot of overstimulation for someone not prepared for it... It *does* mean that if you lose a tank and the crew can't bail and die with it, you only have to train one person to replace them, you don't have to train potentially two to four more individual operators to one vehicle each with their own highly specialized, unique role within the vehicle.
Overall, it's probably cheaper and more efficient for those points.
Being a "Light" kinda make sense when you think about it. Up until Reach, it was only ever seen in service of the Navy, and rapid deployment would probably be pretty critical. The Pelicans that can carry the tank is supposedly a Heavy Lift Variant while a Regular Pelican could still transport troops and a Warthog. For the ammo I think it is stored right under the turret. The vents probably dont go to the engine, since that is the ingame weak point. 1 well placed grenade blows the whole tank up and pops the turret of much like in the clip of the Russian tank. Blowing up the engine should only immobilize it, with the autoloader it could probably even still shoot.
You should cover the other lesser-known tanks from Halo like the Grizzly, Rhino, Kodiak, and Cobra.
They're all known. Just not seen often.
And the Kodiak isn't a tank.
It's self propelled artillery.
"the Brazilian upgrade to the Stuart"
Excuse me the WHAT?
I think naval autoloading gun systems can cycle with nearly that sort of speed
you should do one of these on the original halo combat evolved scorpion! it doesnt have the hull mounted turret, AND it lets you use the coaxial machine gun
You should do the Mammoth/ Apocalypse tanks from Command and Conquer
13:25 what about the rear turrets of the LVT tank? The one primarily used by US during landing operations in the pacific
the lvt 4 had 2 machine gun turrets like the one in halo on the back
Sir, the M48A3 Patton uses a 90mm cannon, the 90mm M47 for be exact, that was a lil mistake of your side
The M48 and M47 are both very old tanks. My point about the 90mm was that it is a caliber more often used in light tanks “nowadays”.
Sure there was a time when a 90mm canon was good enough for an MBT or medium/heavy tank, but that time has long passed. In my opinion it helps the theory that the developers used WWII and early Cold War tanks for reference when designing the Scorpion.
Is it possible the the track pods are powered with electric motors fed power through the main engine
Also the scorpion might be 4 tank designs the American scorpion m56 td the prototype light tank m1128 amx13 and the japz.k A2
That is what I believe the canon explanation is. And of all the possible ways it could work, that does make the most sense. In the far future, such technology could be way easier to implement and maintain. But if the Scorpion were to be dropped into service TODAY, it's a system with many flaws.
Even still, putting aside how they get power, those tracks are still super heavy, super wide, use an outdated suspension system, and all connect to the tank on one hinge point. There are lots of problems with the Scorpions tracks.
@@eta320 can't deny that but as a td it fits its role I think with the track pods the idea was there easier to replace vs a full track like tires for a car in a way replace the pod set the damaged one in maintenance and repeat which isn't a bad idea if executed right.
Halo 1 or 2 had a working turret machine gun
it was halo 2 with the coaxial
@@Lucas-lq9cn CE did as well
This entire channel is just the “look his just a little guy” meme just look at this little guy talking about tanks isn’t he adorable
9:52
Kinda have an answer for this, and also building off of an earlier comment about electrical motors driving each pod.
Sure, a small pivot point would be quite fragile. But given the UNSC's answer to everything, why would they not make the rod or whatever it is that the track pods slide onto, as thick and beefy as possible? Possibly with some extra UNSC vehicles tend to be known for their reliability in adverse conditions, the warthog is a particularly good example with how many of the damned things you can find flipped over, but otherwise intact, throughout the various halo campaigns.
Huh... how the hell did I not realize this before. Russian tank autoloaders... are based on how battleship cannons are loaded. Or were. Just the sheer scale makes it harder to tell how they work. as an example, USS new jersy an iowa class (There's a youtube channel) Is shown to have an ammunition carousel, the ammunition hoist, and the autoloader that rams rounds into the breach. Russian tanks are just scaled down versions of that system
also forgot. Modern tanks have machine guns mounted above the commanders hatch, at least as an option. And those? Those typically, at least until the advent of remotely controlled guns, have been set up remarkably like the scorpions MG turet.
AE Phase I
I like to imagine that the scorpion was designed to be an autonomous sabotage vehicle deployed alongside spartan infiltration. If you'll remember there was the Spartan III SPI "Headhunters" program which put pairs of spartan 3's on suicide missions specifically for assassination and sabotage, and the scorpion, in my opinion, would be a very good fit for that role being 1. very lightweight with very good ground pressure and high mobility 2. single occupancy designed for an augmented human with enhanced cognitive capabilities 3. not designed with crew safety in mind(relies on individual personal armor)
Main Battle Tank IRL is a branchoff of Medium Ranks and Medium Cruisers, and youd be surprised on some tanks called a MBT when they are kff the walls and look nothing like a traditional MBT or even a medium tank (hint hint the STRV 103 Cheese Wedge)
18:05 I wouldn't post human covenant War era scorpions received a substantial up gunning they feature a 150 mm electrothermochemical gun
For the 90mm gun, id take a look at the M47/M48/M60 medium tanks (later would be reclassified as an MBT when the M60 started rolling about) when the M60 was still going around in development, it utilized almost everythibg about the M48 besides the cast hull front and later versions of the prototype M60 would use the 105mm gun we know it having today. So 90mm is an MBT caliber, however it was a very short lived MBT caliber
the early Centurions used an 84mm too.
Look at the Halo wars 2 Halo 5 and Halo infinite designs
I see the reason for 90mm smoothbore cannon as a possible solution to smaller ammunition stowage space by using ETC to potentially increase the kinetic energy shell velocity without increasing the diameter of the round. Tho I can't really defend whatever ammunition it's firing
Honestly to me, I think the Scorpion would be better as an infantry tank purely. Sure, it's kinda used as such already, but I wish it would fully lean into that. The UNSC could do with a new MBT, and honestly a light tank too. Take a page out of how Russia organizes their stuff, keep the older, bigger, slightly lesser powered gun and have it be in mechanized infantry units for direct fire support, while keeping the newer and better MBTs in actual tank units.
It sure has problems, and some aren't as bad as people make them out to be, but it still has some problems to fix, at least slightly. Still, it looks cool as hell and isn't the worst thing out there.
15:40 i think the stridsvogn 103 or the (S-Tank) could be used by one person
In halo lore, UNSC equipment is mostly from the 2100-2200s