Narcissism & Insecure Attachment Styles | DIANA DIAMOND
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2020
- Are parents to blame for the narcissism in their kids? Diana Diamond explains the connection between attachment styles and narcissistic pathology.
There are two types of insecure attachment (dismissing avoidant & ambivalent preoccupied) that seem to go hand in hand with the two different presentations of narcissistic pathology (grandiose & vulnerable). Or people can have a disorganized combination of the two, in which case the oscillation between vulnerable and grandiose states can make treatment difficult.
We interviewed Diana Diamond about narcissism and its prevalence in our society today, all the way from healthy traits to Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
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Diana Diamond is an expert clinician who makes use of Transference-Focused Psychotherapy in her practice treating NPD and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).
Check out our interviews of Otto Kernberg and Frank Yeomans for lots more related material: Kernberg: • Dr. Otto Kernberg
Yeomans: • Dr. Frank Yeomans
For more information about BORDERLINE, the feature-length documentary we made about BPD, please visit: borderlinethefilm.com
Our archive of videos on BPD and NPD is expanding - be sure to subscribe to our channel here: / borderlinernotes
man, i wish there was more info like this to understand narcissism. All the information online I feel is aimed toward victims with very little resource to help people who actually suffer from having NPD.
*See: Professor Sam Vaknin
czcams.com/users/samvaknin
Bcs it s about personality s structure maybe.. I d say to live accordingly. &"victims" may also be NPD s children. They suffer -the NPD person lives through the fantasy he/she created.
@@MoonLeaf_RaquelLeBaudourlol, he's a fraud.
Jesus would help the most❤
Relatable.
I was that baby that rejected the caregiver. Apparently, I didn't cry, even when hungry. I at first thought this behavior was due to not wanting to be a burden to my already stressed out, single mother when we barely had enough food on the table. At 7 years old, I realized I could not rely on her as a stable, functioning adult. She has NPD and BPD, so a Cluster B mess. It was a disheartening childhood, oscillating between which child she adored/hated next. Incredibly high standards placed on us that she couldn't embody herself. Be seen and not heard. Constant threats. Always treated as a delinquent though I never earned it. Then the whole break of reality, lies or delusions, I'm not sure which one they were.
My way of "coping" with undesirable situations (which I attributed to people instead of circumstances) was flat out stonewalling them. It was the only way I knew how to tolerate things I couldn't change. Before I learned how to process emotions, I compartmentalized them. I dismissed my own pain, unwilling to open up to anyone about how terrible things were at home. I mean, so many people have worse problems than me, right?
This helped me for only a short period of time. Later on, I'd be diagnosed with chronic health conditions, internal bleeding, and basically my autoimmune system having anxiety. Fantastic.
Bottom line, I felt during the duration of my life that I couldn't rely on anyone. It's not that I set incredibly high standards, either. But in this grifter, capitalist, "get mine" economy, your own parents will use you as a cash cow and discard their own children once they can't get child support checks or claim them as a dependent anymore.
I became hyper-independent as a response to the trauma. Deep down, I truly wished I could rely on others and to be accepted for my own unique way of living. That's all I wanted as a kid, to be around stable, reliable people who kept their word instead of people who talked big and never embodied it. Or worse, being in a relationship with someone for 6 years who eventually wanted me to submit to his culture where women are second class, that I shouldn't speak up for myself when someone insults me, and that my dreams of living in a country with national healthcare was a pipe dream.
As an adult, I still want that. The freedom. The respect. The individuality. National Healthcare (especially now with a disease). I don't automatically have my guard up. I give chances, hope for the best in people, but everyone is so stressed and looking out for their own best interests. It's hard not to default back to familiar behaviors but I'm trying to overcome them. Hanging out with children helps.
hope you doing well❤
Not trying to be judgemental but you're playing the victim card very hard in typical NPD fashion.
You sound just like me! Are you neurodivergent by any chance?
Wow. I have to say, I've been reading a lot of CZcams comments on these types of videos. Yours is like a breath of fresh air, the honesty, the self-awareness. You came from a shitty situation, but you accept your part in it, you've done the work, and you're doing your damnedest to live out your values in spite of it. I applaud you.
Moving between anxious and avoidant attachment states can often be related to early, interpersonal trauma
yep 10 years foster care . barcoding foster mom and borderline physically abusive mom
It actually has its own name as the 3rd insecure attachment style, it's called disorganized or fearful avoident.
Interesting she says narcissists tend to have dismissive attachment. I have dismissive avoidant attachment and just ended a relationship with a narcissist who told me that he also had had dismissive attachment in the past but had grown towards healthy attachment and had healthy attachment now. Regardless of whatever he claimed, he was incredibly dismissive in every possible way. Devaluation, belittlement, entitlement, constant condescension, he was convinced he was superior to me in every possible way and made sure to let me know that as often as he pleased.
Of course, no one "chooses" a narcissistic defense. It's the only option available in narcissisticly pathological families.
I disagree. They could but it be against their programming. I bet they would be suicidal if they didn’t defend themselves that way.
@@aliacampbell7227 You are categorically wrong. Personality disorders are not conscious choices. Most narcissists aren't aware they are narcissistic. It's why such a small percentage engage in therapy.
I disagree in today’s times. It’s very likely to not be a choice in rural areas, but there are enough outside positive reinforcements of healthy behavior for an individual to choose otherwise.
@@aureaudio not as a child. This pattern has been imprinted before the age of 5, certainly before teenage years.
@@aliacampbell7227 I strongly disagree that developmental outcomes are a conscious choice, but I do believe that recovery is a choice. I even say that with caution, because therapeutic mental heal resources are not available to everyone; while anyone is free to do what they can to work on themselves, the qualified therapy is not available to a lot of people.
Makes me think of my cousin who’s partner was so attached to his dog. I mean more then the normal pet owner, spending exorbitant amounts of money of his dog, photos all over their home. No pictures of their wedding but house littered with pictures of the dog. Entire phone storage snd videos of the dog. She would always ask if that was normal and we all dismissed it as just a pet lover, turns out he was diagnosed with vulnerable narcissist and had an unhealthy attachment to his pet while dismissing the family he built and created. I imagine he treated the dog how he wanted to be treated snd was beyond consolable when the pet died. I mean he was in shambles.
I mean damn, maybe he just really loved his dog lol
@@zazlar4228he sounds really out of control that he put a dog over his family
I was just encouraged to write a letter to my mom. Needless to say, when I tried to bring up just one thing, I’m on silent treatment again.
Make it a one-word letter: "Bye!"
Anyone else here cause they secretly always worry that they're a vulnerable narcissist? 😅
Here to understand my ex better
@@RetrosenescentSame. Also to never allow that again.
Yes! But I got out of a relationship with a full blown narc and after I studied up on it, I started to look at my past behaviors and question my narcness....except I've always been loyal to a fault
If you have the capacity to wonder that about yourself, you probably aren't
💯 😅
It's really sad.. 😔
When you put narciccism into the context of avoidant attachment types, it becomes easier to deal with and understand. I don't think I've ever met a NPD in my life but pretty much everyone I know is narciccistic nowadays.
"Nowadays" is right. Young people are practically instructed to focus on micro-aggressions, to zoom into the small picture. When we should help people see themselves in the context of being a citizen of the world. Maybe that time is passing now.
Yh
It's not fun at all
Oh, touché. It’s almost like a survival tactic.
Who hasn't been raise by a narcissist slightly has not even a close idea how twisted and brutal abuse and damage they cause to their children.
This is so fascinating: I am the baby that created contingencies and learned to cope on my own. I really enjoyed the doctor’s insight and appreciate her expertise, but I would just suggest that she express these points about children carefully. For example, suggesting a baby/child “chooses” or “dampens” is a bit misleading. There are needs a child requires. If these needs aren’t met, autonomic survival mechanisms kick-in. While a child’s response will surely affect the narcissistic mother’s attempts at attachment, to suggest the child has choice or is somehow responsible doesn’t ring true.
I can see why you may take her comments that way. Your expression is much clearer. I didn’t feel that she misspoke, but that it just went both ways.. baby stops bidding for attention that it won’t get and the mother isn’t cued to pay attention. I have a friend like that with her baby and it’s a strange silent situation with them. Both in their own worlds. So sad.
@@brennanleyen Thanks so much for sharing this anecdote about your friend. The way you've framed it is poignant.
Yes, I agree….very good point about babies choosing but I do think babies react but how and where🤔
This is one of the best understanding of narcissist.
Very interesting video, thank you. My mom would say she learnt early on at age 12, she could only rely on herself, she's always been emotionally neglectful and now is been giving me silent treatment for months after we had fights. My dad's attachment could look like an oscillation between anxious preoccupied and dismissive, which feels like there is no attachment really. People, including myself, are just seen as objects that reflect well or not his self, either good or to be thrown under the bus, and absolutely replaceable.
Why is she explaining my life so well? That's disturbing haha. Great video. Love this channel!
This is excellent. After watching many videos on Narcissism that tend to be unempathetic and reactionary, this really helps to make a breakthrough not only in understanding at a defensive level, but also empathizing with the trauma and conditions that are at play. Thank you
I had a female colleague whom I think is a malignant narcissist, she mentioned several times that her mother refused her a lot when she was a child.
Mine did too - my mother was very negligent emotionally. My sister developed narcissism. I became an empath nurse. I didn't acquire the genetic temperament for narcissism. I have my father's temperament.
Mine was as cold as it gets. I have avoidant attachment and no personality disorder. Standart amount of empathy. But I don't trust people, for adult me even the idea of trusting people sounds weird. Some of then are out to get you, others are people pleasers and they are going to hurt you for the sake of some toxic person. It's very hard to find someone who us actually trustworthy.
Maybe they’re so difficult to treat because they are being approached as/looked at as an object that needs to be fixed, rather than a whole human being. Nobody wants to be seen that way. They’re a project or job for the clinician, and when the clinician can’t figure them out, they(the clinician) becomes frustrated, and that is certainly picked up of by the patient. People develop so called “narcissistic pathology” precisely because they were never seen as whole human beings by their parents. They were projects for their parents and now they’re projects for the clinician. They’re terrified of being vulnerable, and because of how they are classified(as predators, essentially), the clinician cannot look at them as the vulnerable human beings they are. But that is what they need to heal. They need to be allowed, for the first time in their life, to be vulnerable. If you see a person as a threat, they’re going to remain a threat. If they are seen as vulnerable and allowed to be vulnerable, then they can actually start growing.
After 19 years of being compassionate and understanding and seeing him as a whole human, I had to divorce him because he refused therapy. I had been in therapy for years because of his abuse. No, being seen as an object is not their problem. Seeing us, kind people who were whole humans before getting the narc, as objects...things to be exploited for their benefits. I hope you never suffer through the pure hell a narcissist can create.
Best description of this I’ve ever heard. Thank you!
She explains my parents (especially my mother) very well.
Hoping you take time to heal the baby you..
Very insightful and clear explanation by Dr Diamond.
A clear and excellent account of the various expression of narcissism and the root of the trauma. Thanks for sharing.
So interesting.
Excellent, thank you.
Very insightfull.
Very interesting indeed.
Excellent video 👍🏼
Genius!
I have seen a change from preoccupied to dismissive avoidant. Very useful in vulnerable vs. Grandiose narcissist. Or the vacilation between the vulnerable and grandiose states often w other comorbid things. Some say the dismissive attachment style will breadcrum because their parents breadcrumed them.
When the infant or child tries to correct the parent it often leads to an opposite effect and distances the child from the parent. When a child acts out they're often asking for help. Sometimes the walls become so built up it becomes a jealousy game. Mental illness runs in the family
@@user-pc2xn1iz8w most people have a hurt childhood and/or bad role models. I had to do a lot of contemplating, research, meditation and very in-depth studies of psychology in order to heal myself and try and understand why people are so hateful. 30 years ago I began studying esoteric psychology and more recently narcissism. There are some great resources and teachers on the internet. I have come to a much higher realisation than most people. And it is all making sense now, what helps me the most is meditation, psychology, neuropsychology, spirituality and and study of the afterlife and their experiences of Heaven and I real purpose here on Earth that people are misunderstanding. Good luck on your journey to the light and wisdom. If you like I will give you a whole list of great teachers and books. But meditate. That will align you to the Father which is in Heaven.
@@user-pc2xn1iz8w meditation isn't something one should try hard to do. You have to give up everything it's kind of like going to sleep but you're awake. Eckhart Tolle offers some good advice too.
@@user-pc2xn1iz8w that is the problem. You are concentrating on the emptiness. Meditation is without mind. You might get there if you practice. If you read books on yoga you will understand the goal. How old are you may I ask?
Very interesting video for me. I’m becoming aware of my narcissistic behaviour and wonder why I am the way I am. My mother left when I was around 2 and my father wasn’t equipped emotionally to deal with 4 children, me being the youngest. Looking back at this now I can possibly see why I felt like I had to be self reliant and all that went with it.. Thank you for your video.
Please add subtitle with English and any other languange, especially Indonesia languange, love the content!
I guess that explains their nutty need for absolute control and their stalking and hoovering. Mommy (and Daddy) issues! They're very dependent underneath it all.
thats why they need their narcissistic supply..it is almost like a parasite....they don't choose to be that way they simply are that way...but in the end we are humans and we are capable of change just requires a lot of internal work
I love listening to Dr. Diamond speak! 💎
Now going to read up on Symington and Beebe
Please van you write down the two articles cited ?
@@hel3125 Hi! I just browsed the authors and their work on Google Scholar
It would be great if automatic generated subtitles were activatable
Not just confusing for the clinician, but confusing for victims of narcissist.
They cannot possibly know what their strategy with result in, so it’s not really a choice. Choice requires knowledge of the what is being chosen, otherwise it’s blind.
When life is going great for the narcissist and they are in the grandiose state, their self esteem is high and they have ready validation from many sources, so it stands to reason that they are more likely dismissive avoidant as they do not have to rely on intimate relationships to prop them up.
Conversely when life is not going well and they are in the vulnerable state, their self esteem is low and they have to rely on intimate relationships for narcissistic supply, so they have either anxious preoccupied or disorganised attachment, depending on how great a victim they feel and how distrustful they are of others.
The four month old babies turning away from mom, that is so interesting. I wish they had more studies on that. I wonder if the child maybe feels unwanted by the parent ealy on, possibly even in the womb, and develops this as a protective mechanism. Or, if they are really just born that way. I think if we focused more on this type of research, we could help heal the world so much faster.
twin studies show theyre born this way.
But those babies may be psychopaths... not necessarily NPD
Or they try a couple of times,get no response from the mom, then just learn to quit trying
@@dogtrainingmexico all psychopaths are narcissists
I wonder if anyone from this channel or the people across the isle can recommend books on the relationship of narcissism and deficiencies in the attachment in childhood
#cannotclassify - trauma scrambles the brain
Absolutely…
A little complicated, ya think😵💫. Very good explanation 🤔
Wow
This is pretty on the money
The more I watch videos like this, the more terrified I get that I am a narcissist.
This is all over the place
Choose is a diabolical choice of verb.
The child might choose but he she had no choice!!!
I.e. their genes kick in to protect them
It's determinism
If true...the linkage to alzheimer's and other tauopathies might point to narcissism as a possible prodrome of dementia...perhaps what we consider a disease of the elderly isn't...but is a lifelong neurological disorder of frontal lobe...a slow tauopathy...bvFTD or frontal ALZ as there are cases in the teens and twenties...and the overlap in symptoms of frontal alzheimer's and bvFTD and narcissism and borderline are significant. TBI patients with frontal pathology look like borderline and narcissistic patients too...
🙏
what i dont get is i was treated exactly how she described growing up, and i overflow with empathy and have little to no narcissistic traits. why do certain people fall into the pitfall of narcissism and others dont? i certainly have always had the self assurance and intelligence to combat it, so maybe thats a factor?
Neville Symington, Beatrice beaby - copes on own
❤
Thanks for posting these. What she's saying here sounds a lot like James Masterson's ideas, and Margaret Mahler's.
well how can I know if I just have insecure preoccupied attachment or if it is that alongside vulnerable narcissism?
You aren't a narcissist just because you have an insecure attachment style.
Not sometimes, empathy-deficient parents are perfectly cold (no ability to emote whatsoever) ALL THE TIME. Not sometimes
Nope. Empathy or lackthereof is on the spectrum and it varies in the same person situationally and seasonally
My mother passed away in late January. To this day, I still don't know whether I refused to be breastfed, or whether she refused to breastfeed me. My mother used to say, jokingly, that I was recalcitrant; my siblings, both younger, weren't breastfed either. Could this be the unknown source of my insecure-attachment style? Can anybody relate?
I think it could be. As as mother i put in the effort to breastfeed my 3 kids, as I knew that was best for their well-being. My first born was "recalcitrant," he was born premature and did not know how to breastfeed...so I spent 2 months consulting specialists, and pumping breastmilk. I fought for him, in the end it worked out. I believe that is what normal, non NPD mothers would do - focus on what is best for your child, even if it is a lot of work.
@@dogtrainingmexico Interesting. Thanks for sharing. My mother didn't have NPD; she was likely on the autistic spectrum, as I am.
but what about those narcissist babies that turn their moms into narcissists
What if that person is BPD with disorganized attached style that has multiple sex partners ? How do you differentiate BPD with NPD ?
can a four month old choose?
There is something 'constitutive ' that make us opt for this insane retrieval to grandiosity ( they say with a long face). Also unlike other babies we willingly decide not to trigger the crucial smiles our mum cannot produce herself, mirroring to a fault the expressing of that terrified baby. So in we don't get our share, something antigonistic, anti-life would be at work. Also, we turn away from the mother because we felt 'she is was good enough'..
How nice indeed.
In fact here is a secret: even as adults we don't choose. We see others being more grounded, managing to build intimacy, not attacking the couple...we are floating above, are insufferable , lost, then down we go , ...but the thing is we don't see change as possible at all. We believe we can only pretend until the end because we are missing a part. You can only change when you see change as a possibility. It's not a question of not wanting (thank you for your comment).
Why is it even called "narcissism" if it runs the full gamut of human attachment?
There is healthy narcissism too.
Right? So there’s “healthy narcissism” and “unhealthy narcissism”, but why are they both narcissism? What does “narcissism” even mean then?
Anxious preoccupied attachment style is not narcissism. Anyone comparing the 2 does not have this attachment style. I have it and I have a lot of empathy, I genuinely love and care for people. What I do not have is trust that I'll be loved and cared for just as much! I fear that I'll be abandoned by my partner and need to be reassured that it's not going to happen. I experience debilitating anxiety when my mind perceives a threat of abandonment and I cry, and feel very worthless. Once my partner returns and reassures me, I'm perfectly fine again! This man is the most supportive, understanding and patient person I've ever met, and I've made many improvements because of his amazing support! Anxious preoccupied attachment style has nothing in common with narcissistic personality disorder, they're far from the same!
Very very interesting.
I'm confused about how this style of therapy uses the term "relationship" with the therapist. The therapist is hired, there is no respect or reliability more fragile than a relationship acquired and sustained by money, it's a service literally purchased by the minute.
I thought this too better term would be interactions.
its not unconscious the choice of stay and get hurt go and hurt less.
I think therapists etc continue to blame everything on childhood no matter what. Believe me a narcissist will lie about their childhood because they are so good at changing the real story to the story that will bring them their supply. I know this from my own NPD husband. Therapists need to remember how well a narcissist can lie and make their childhood into something it wasn't for their own benefit.
Narcissistic people are just selfish devils. They do not live with a clear conscience with God. they can have empathy when it suits them. Never trust someone who buries their own God given conscience.
Stop allowing just anyone to have children, than!!
that would be a brilliant idea!
@@mickadatwist1620yeah! Nazis had the same idea 😃
I hope I don’t reincarnate. Life is messy.
Explains a lot..or rely everything..
Sadly Trump.😓😓
Yes. And he is dragging THE ENTIRE WORLD into his damaged psyche.
Do not agree with this at all !!
Genius!