How to Deal With Popular Commander-Based Combos in cEDH | Understanding cEDH | Casually Competitive
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Welcome back to another Casually Competitive MTG Understanding cEDH Discussion video!
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Resources:
The Gitrog Monster Primer & Google Doc (Primers listed at the bottom of the doc):
docs.google.com/document/d/1e...
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard Primer & Google Doc:
docs.google.com/document/d/1U...
Elsha of the Infinite Primer:
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/cedh-p...
Najeela of the Blade-Blossom Primer:
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/warri...
Godo, Bandit Warlord Primer:
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/waiti...
In this installment of Understanding cEDH we will go over how to understand and stop some common and popular commander based wincons that you may see while playing at a cEDH table. The commander specific combos we will be going over today are the combos revolving around The Gitrog Monster; Yisan, the Wanderer Bard; Elsha of the Infinite; Najeela of the Blade-Blossom; and Godo, Bandit Warlord. The goal of this video is to help those newer to a more competitive commander understand cEDH combos and know when they can interact and how they can deal with them.
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#CEDH #EDH - Hry
*NOTE:* At 8:40 I was mistaken. Since Oblivion Crown gives the ability to the creature, Cursed totem type effects do indeed stop it.
When it comes to deckbuilding what are some topics you would be interested in seeing broken down? We are planning on doing a few of these videos on deckbuilding concepts for cEDH.
Over the next few weeks, there may be time to make these more frequently so if there's anything you would like to see a discussion video on in regards to deckbuilding or other cEDH topics in general feel free to let us know!
Id like to see each commander for consultation combo, and pros and cons of each :)
I would love to see videos where each of you present your fav deck and go somewhat into why you love playing it, it's combos and stuff
Didn't you also kinda mess up the "koziland" state part of the combo?
Others have mentioned this a bit, but showing combos for infinite mana and/or draw for each color would be cool. Getting into the combinations of colors might be too much, but your content is awesome and that would give you a lot of content to make, so go for that too!
16:39
never knew Countering Gitrog helped stop the Yisan player
;P
(text not spoken word)
The countering Elsha part is correct, prob. since you edited it for Pyroblast
Series idea: best ten-card interaction kit for each color
This video, aswell as this whole channel, is of extremely high quality and quite pleasing to watch. Amazing job, as always.
As a gitrog player myself.
How to stop it: dont let the frog stick. That's pretty much it, but it's much harder than it sounds lol
Your channel puts out incredible content. Really thorough, well-edited, and easy to understand. Thanks for all the hard work!
You must really hate Gitrog
He relishes in the dark side of Cedh
Great series, love all your content. You guys are my current fav mtg youtubers!!! Keep the content coming!! Bravo fellas!!
Thanks for making these series! Trying to make Rayami cEDH viable even though it's super hard and probably not really going to work - and these videos are really helpful!
Great video! As a Najeela player, I agree with most of what you said except the artifact hate. Most Najeela lists will play more dorks and very few rocks. In fact, it is common for Najeela lists to play artifact hate like null rod or collector ouphe themselves since it impacts us so little and can hurt others so bad. Thanks for the great content!
Very well explained for the combos. I really enjoy watching all your guys videos. Keep it up. 😀
These videos are awesome and very helpful. Much appreciated 🙏
this is a pretty awesome series, would love to see it expanded on as well as an alternative take of "how to pilot / protect your combos"
Yisan says Counter Gitrog :) Love the content! 16:58
HI , A card that I include against a lot of combos is Sudden spoiling, it has split second,it will turn everything into a 0/2 vanilla creature, Stops Godo, Najeela and it will at least stop Gitrog combo for a turn and allow removal.
Elsha can be replaced with a mystic forge, and the mana reducers can be replaced with kykar but the mana cost is not ideal.
I would like to see the Breya- KCI-nim deathmantle. and the K'rrick-Chainer-Gray merchant asphodel
Another card that can stop Gitrog combo is Extirpate to split second remove Dakmor Salvage.
Good old Crature control. The Mississippi approved way of stopping crature based combos
I love my gitrog deck and it was a big rabbit hole learning how to play the deck when I got into it. I had a omnath ramp deck and loved graveyard decks so I change omnath out for gitrog and made a graveyard based gitrog deck and when I 1st ran into the end step dakmor hand sculpt by mistake and had to looked up the rulings for it was what started my spiral into cedh
CORRECTION: Notion Thief does not stop Gitrog, and Spirit of the Labyrinth can be played around. Explained in this excerpt
from magicjudges(dot)org:
When your opponent tries to resolve an effect that would let her draw a card, such as Cephalid Coliseum, both replacement effects jump in and say “pick one!” to your opponent (the affected player). Your opponent will probably choose the dredge effect, which means there’s no longer any draw for Notion Thief to replace.
Perhaps you can stop your opponent from drawing entirely? Spirit of the Labyrinth, for example, prevents your opponent from drawing any cards at all after the first card each turn. This is great if you can somehow trick your Dredge opponent into drawing a card. However, if she replaces each of her draws with dredges, the Spirit never sees that she actually drew a card - and therefore won’t stop her from replacing her prospective card draws with further dredges. Of course, if she draws her first card normally under Spirit of the Labyrinth, then tries to dredge from a later draw, that won’t work because the second draw effect won’t be possible.
The combo involves drawing your library. So you can dredge like a maniac (which might put you into a Darkblast, which can remove the bear with some extra mana) but you can't do the "I draw my library infinite times and win using X" line as long as the bear is in place
Commenting for them CZcams stats, but also I live in a very magic-dry area and my country is in lockdown so these videos are giving me the sweet sweet EDH juices I need. Thanks!
Loved this thank you!
great choice of commanders! really like the idea
Would love to see a video on mana bases or budget themes!
Linvala and Curses Totem actually stop Oblivion Crown as well, because crown grants the ability to the enchanted creature.
You are correct, I apparently mis-read the card and just assumed I was remembering correctly
I would love an updated version of this video for the 2021 meta, especially after the MH2 drop. :)
"This is fine"
~ Gitrog card designers and playtesters when reading the last triggered ability knowing full well Dredge is an ability in the game generally, that Dredge decks are already quite strong in formats they are played, and that Dakmor Salvage *exists* specifically.
Gitrog is fine, it's not even a thing anymore in cEDH
love these videos
Trickbind, krosan grip, and other split second spells are great too.
17:00 should it not read counter yisan? Great videos by the way, one of my favorite channels
One thing I think is missing with Najela is massive Mana dorks.
Something like Faeburrow Elder or Bloom Tender attacking can be untapped with Najeela's ability for an infinite number of combat steps.
I would enjoy seeing an episode tackle mono white and what it needs to be truly viable, even with commanders like Teshar, Sram and Heliod it's still incredibly difficult to both keep up and interact with all decks mentioned here
25:38 "Just Derevi" I fucking choked
I hope this video will give more options than the one that was basically "Play blue, because counterspells".
Good stuff
Dont forget preator's grasp vs gitrog, since its facedown you cant shuffle it back in ur deck with rift sweeper. Also they can also make green mana at instant speed, with shallow grave like effect on lotus cobra, then drownyard temple infinite ammount of times by saccing it to any of ur instant speed effects
Any chance you could provide a Meren of clan neltoth Google doc?
I play a madness deck (anje) and there is a card that kills draw-my-deck-I-win players (niv-mizzet, parun e.g.): Curse of Fool's Wisdom. pretty good.
As a Gitrog player, I just want to note that the win does not rely on stacking infinite draw triggers.
Once you draw your library, you need to put back a land, a shuffle effect (kozilek) and a mana-generating spell (dark ritual, lotus petal etc) back into your deck. To do this is simple. Assuming the mana-generating effect is already in your graveyard; discard a land, (draw trigger on the stack), then discard the titan. Shuffle those 3 cards into your library, and draw a card. Now, there are 3 possible draws, with one line of play for each of them:
Draw the land - Discard the land, then discard dakmor salvage. Two draw triggers on the stack. Dredge the dakmor back to your hand, which in turn will mill the spell and the kozilek, causing you to shuffle the 3 cards back into your library, then resolve the second draw trigger to try again.
Draw kozilek - Discard dakmor for a draw trigger. Dredge for that draw trigger, milling the land and the spell. Another draw trigger goes onto the stack. In response, discard kozilek, allow the shuffle trigger to resolve, now let the draw trigger resolve, and try again.
Draw the spell - This is what you want to draw each time you loop. Simply cast the spell to generate the mana, then discard and dredge dakmor. You will mill the land and the shuffle effect. Stack the triggers so that the shuffle effect resolves first, then draw a card and repeat.
This benefit is for when you are looping with something like lotus petal, since you need to cast lotus petal at sorcery speed. This advantage is so you can get unlimited mana of any colour, and also for the failcase that dark ritual is exiled somehow.
There are easier ways to do this without stacking infinite draws
@@bendinguy5914 Not sure at what part you mean? You need to draw your deck for the combo to work at the very least.
@@IIsSoBeastly after you draw your deck you can loop Lotus Petal deterministically. The method you described would be considered non-deterministic/non-shortcuttable
Are you in the Gitrog Discord? If you want me to elaborate I can more readily respond there.
discord.gg/YDM9KT
You can actually perform gitrog combo with 0 mana and no discard outlet however need 8 cards in hand
Another good Commander specific wincon would be Teferi temporal archmage and chain Veil
Really liked the video!! I am new to the cedh field and am building a korvold food chain deck. I would like to see one done on korvold/ any jund food chain deck. As well as what are good hate against it to know what I may be in store for thank!!!
Check out the last understanding cEDH! It covers some common wincons by color and I believe food chain was a talking point.
@@samsplace1470 wow I can't believe I missed that one super helpful.
as a gitrog player myself, we dont need the black mana you say to go off, we only need the land and the discard outlet
Some notes on countering godo from a long time mono red player who has been playing godo since before helm was a twinkle in anyone's eyes. Just having something like a propaganda or ghostly prison can be enough to survive godo. Red has very little that can deal with enchantments, and even less in the way of efficient tutors. With the linear way most godo decks are built, infinite mana combos aren't usually run so they generally won't be able to hit you.
33:49 "It is kinda difficult to remove a creature in mono red". Was that a joke ?
Mostly just highlights how the meta is behind on recognizing that Lightning Bolt is sneaky good in cEDH
It is hard. They have Abrade and Lightning bolt and nothing else that is much good. Other colors have far better options.
punt points!
8:40 how? oblivion crown gives the ability to the creature, right?
9:40 & 29:27 it says crature control here
16:40 it still says countering gitog lol
20:47
24:49 where did that "of" come from?
33:47 almost every burn spell ever: am i a joke to you?
34:10 actually *pushes up glasses* the equip _ability_ is activated, the cost is not an ability
lol jk guys, great video, love your content!
The big brain answer is that I leave mistakes in to provoke comments to help with the YT algorithm. The real answer is that even though I watch these videos 2-3 times each I tend to glance over text issues. After working on a video for 5+ hours the small things seem to slip by
31:43 Godo Bandit Warlod
@@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG nice
Should I be worried if I have 4 of these built but don't even play cEDH?
9:13 That Crature hate.
*casually competitive goes over proteus staff combo for Elisha*
Me: oh, it's the same trick I used to do with narset. Didn't expect that to be CEDH Viable.
I use it too in narset edh, it's quite good !
@@samuelkabab7421 yes. Rigging your deck for unlimited turns/battle phases is nuts.
So the thing about elsha is they can replay top in response hold priority tap top put it back and repeate draw a counter counter removal continue until they draw their win con allow stack to resolve
The timing listed is correct but for a different reason. If they tap top, the ability for the top has to resolve before it goes to the top of the library.
@@signisakanades1329 can you interrupt a stack? Like in response to this resolving I use elshas ability to flash in the top card?
@@XNamelessXNill Yes. So Top's ability to put itself on top is a part of the resolution of the effect, so while that is on the stack the top is in play and tapped.
If you destroy it here it won't go to the top of the deck. The top card of their deck could be a counterspell to stop you, but it is the best time since otherwise they would draw that counterspell and then when they cast top again there is another new card on top of the deck for them to cast.
For infinite attacks najeela + esika and 3 more legendary creatures nets you the mana without needing 10 other cards
Doesn't dredge get around Narset? Dredge is a keyword ability causing a replacement effect.
The quick answer is that as long as they havent drawn a card that turn, they can dredge. Dredge replaces the card draw, but Narset never allows the card to be drawn, thus there not being a draw to replace with the dredge.
In much more direct terms: Dredge as many times as you want in a turn until you choose to draw a card or "draw once".
Wow, I read a lot of rules and judge calls. Static effects will prevent dredge only if you drew a card that turn. Notion thief does not stop dredge.
It surprises me how a single Fog can stop combat strategies, or an attack tax, or any effect to make creatures enter tapped.
hushwing gryff is a better etb hate than tocatli honor guard imo. And monored has a lot of bolt like effects to remove creatures. I run abrade, pyrokinesis and rending volley to name a few in my godo deck and never had issues removing creatures. Humility-like effects are much stronger to counter godo than creature stax.
Hushwing costs 3, so no it's worse. 1 mana starts being a huge deal as you climb up the powerscale.
for yisan combo just use ashya and ranger with any 2+ mana dork XD a much faster and easier combo
Root Maze or Trinisphere are also good Elsha hate pieces
I suppose you use one of the 50 counterspells in the deck...
Step 1: Board wipe
Step 2: More(d) wipe
Step 4: Tribal board wipe
Step 5: There is no Step 3
Step 5: If they catch on, burn down house/store and find new play group (board wipe irl)
Step 5.5: Facial reconstructed surgery
Step 5: Step 6 is just Step 3 twice; it does not exist as well.
how to deal with uro and emry before they go infinite
How do they go infinite? I play an Uro deck
@@brentgould958 this two commander have great potential to go infinite on there very own wincon deck yes the cards is not game changer but the tea is on the decks they belong that tend to infinite these two commander provide resource or access to there wincon piece that if they go uncheck like emry artifact sac loop combo or uro ramping in the early game the game will end no time in just a blink
@@ghostcritic8508 I thought you meant they combo together to go infinite. In my Uro deck I make infinite mana as soon as I can and draw my whole deck to play thassas oracle.
@@brentgould958 i hate thassa oracle wincon it tarnsish my meta because how easy and fast that wincon is thats why i play stax sometimes when i'll play competetive edh to slow those kind of wincon alone
Can confirm, Aven Mindcensor will shut down a Yisan deck.
On another note, why in the world is Yisan a Rogue, they should have just made the Bard subtype.
I would put Witch higher on the to-do list than Bard
16:45 You mention "Countering Yisan" but the screen says "Countering Gitrog"
Inalla and Wanderwine Prophets?
Here is an explanation of that www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/781744-inalla-and-wanderwine-prophets. Keep in mind some inalla players are trying out a new spell seeker combo instead which is explained here tappedout.net/mtg-decks/primer-inalla-wizarding-scholar/?cb=1577889356. I have nothing to do with either of these post I just know they exist.
How to stop or slow down the decks mentioned: play meta pod. Easy peasy.
Makes a video on how to beat "popular" cedh combos.
Doesn't mention Food chain :/
Food chain was in the non-commander specific version of this video
Run bone miser in gitrog so your playgroup doesn’t hate you for taking a thirty minute turn to win.
Me not putting Derevi in my najeela deck only because she is not a warrior
When you’re the third like, and first comment 🤭
Then what happens?
9:15 I hate crature
Gitrog combo? Ah you mist mean solitaire
first again, hi!
wait i was second last 2 times
Hi!
My Yishan deck can win with out him, but obviously the deck is an 8ish with him, like a 6-7 without him.
9:17 You spelled "Creature" as "Crature".
So, you're saying that counter magic and removal are good, and you should probably round up your deck with stax pieces that stop whatever everybody but yourself is trying to do. Am I missing something?
Love your content guys, but it could have been a shorter video. Apart from the deck techs for each commander, the answers felt redundant. A shorter video would leave less room for errors and more for this channels awesomeness. Keep up improving!
Caio Pelichek Gonçalves He said in the intro that this video is aimed towards beginner cedh players, most new people wont know about proper interaction or stax pieces for specific commanders. There were also a few key points in the video like how gitrog can combo in response to a removal spell and all that, plus linking out to the primers gives people more resources to access if they are like yourself and want more in depth explanations as most primers include things to look out for
02:14
skirge familiar as discard outlet
Discard a card (darkmar salvage)
Skirge Familiar creates the infinite black mana
Eventually grab (through drawing)
exsanguinate and/or torment of hellfire
Why you gotta make shit SO complicated?
We don't want to run outlet cards like Torment because they serve no purpose outside of the combo. We have the ability to win with cards we're already running so why not do it that way?
Also Skirge Familiar costs too much mana to justify anymore. The only effects we want to pay 5 for are huge engines (Gitrog and Ad Naus)