The Sig M11A1 Pistol, the Classic P228
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2018
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I have a P228 W. German. It was our issue side arms in my fire department for investigators. When I retired I was able to purchase it as “surplus”. In still carrying it.
M11A1 were used heavily at Kandahar AF from 2009 to 2021. Used by USAF OSI and USA CDI.
First pistol I ever bought was a P229 SAS. Just walked in started gripping pistols and that was the one that felt right. Maybe not the most scientific shopping process, but I have tried several other pistols over the years and the Sig grip and frame ergonomics are just what feels natural to my hand.
I had a stamped P228. It was the most accurate gun I ever had until i got a HK Sp5. Tighter groups than my early Kimber and even a Les Baer i had at the time. It wasnt all that concealable. It also had a terrible trigger reset. Im not big on trigger reset being super important but it was particularly bad. The short reset trigger was $200. I got that gun for $500. NIB condition but technically used. Getting that trigger would have killed the smoking deal i got on it. If it was a p226 i probably would have kept it. But i learned some things from it. 1 im definitely a Beretta 92 guy. 2 maybe i should look at some of the newer plastic pistols for practical carry despite my lack of love for them. 3 DA/SA is still what i should stick with. I ended up with a Walther P99AS so plastic wasnt as bad as i thought it was going to be. I trust plastic fine. I just dont like it. Sure carries nice though.
I love your videos Chris, they are very informative, but I wanted to add that with this pistol having the "SRT" trigger the disassembly procedure is a little bit different according to SIGs manual. I have seen plenty of people field strip them as you did and it might not make a difference or do any harm to the trigger, but it seems like this is never brought up so I just figured I would add this.
"Appendix C: SRT Supplemental Instructions
Thank you for purchasing our new Elite Series pistol with Short Reset Trigger (SRT) System. Please be advised that there is an additional step in field stripping your pistol equipped with an SRT system. Disregard procedure 8.1, steps 5 and 6 and follow the steps listed below:
• Pull back the slide slightly to disengage the slide catch lever. Hold the slide firmly and allow it to move forward slowly.
• As the slide reaches its closed position, decock the pistol. This will allow the SRT safety lever to completely retract so the slide can be fully removed from the frame.
• Now slip the complete assembly (comprised of slide, barrel, recoil spring and guide rod) forward and off the frame.
Should you need any further support in disassembling your SRT equipped pistol, please call our Customer Service Department at (603) 610-3000 ext 3."
The Sig M11-A1 is my CC weapon of choice! I've shot it thousands of times with various brands of ammo and bullet weights; including hand loads. It has never jammed one single time! I love the trigger! When I carry I use Hornady Critical Defense Ammo with the 115 grain FTX bullet.
Why not the m[ac-10/]11a1? Agility not there?
The Pistol of the Great NCIS agent Leroy Gethrow Gibbs
I have carried a German made USA assembled P228R with the rail, for a long time, and I prefered it to Glock, despite the fact I cracked a slide.......somewhere between 25,000 and 30,000 rounds. The slide will crack on the corner behind the ejection port, in that opening where the bolt is pinned into the slide. I have a P229 slide on my P228R frame, but I did get another P228 slide. I have also cracked older stamped metal slides on P226Rs.... again between 25,000 and 30,000 rounds, and by then the barrels are shot too, and you are on, or you should be on your 5th set of springs. Navy pilots carried the M11 or so I thought. I eventually obtained a couple Swiss Sig, (no J.P. Sauer) made in Switzerland, Swiss police trade ins. The Sig Sauer P228R was the nicest feeling gun in the gunstore, so that is what I bought. P-35 Hi Powers were up to $1200 and I was not paying $1200 for another Hi Power. And they were assembled in Portugal. Nothing against the Portuguese but $1200? No!
One of my favorite carry Pistols isa Sig Sauer M11A1! Great Gun, great Video! 👮😎🇺🇸
The last known production run of real P228s (w/ original stamped slide, etc.) was in 2012 for the USAF (M11). The production contract had an overrun of 50 units, and Sig marked those guns "M11B" and sold them on the civilian market. They now command very high prices, as they are the only known military contract M11s in the public's hands.
Really, I thought that they stopped producing those in like 2005 or 2008. Did you ever see the "P228" NJSP P229. It was supposed to be marketed to the NJSP. I believe that Sig had already stopped production of the P228 and ramped up the production of the P229's. NJSP still had a contract for the P228's so Sig made 2 P229's, milled slides and everything and stamped them "P228", and laser engraved the NJSP logo on the top of the slide (pretty sure that they were made Sept of 2007). But they did it because the NJSP contract hadn't ended yet and they can't just go hey we stopped making that so here's a new gun to finish out this contract, or they were trying to discontinue the P228 and tried marketing the P229 to them. Apparently one of them made it out onto GunBroker and a guy bought it for the normal price and when he contacted Sig about the serial number they said that there was only 2 of those that were made..... The guy that contacted him back was the guy who headed up that project and he had the other one. I'm pretty sure that that's right.
@@Jrsydevil7 I recently acquired a P228R made in Mar 2009. Cool gun thought it was a Frankenstein gun it mostly resembles a 229 but it has the locking block insert and the frame has a rail. It’s funny because my M11-A1 mostly resembles a 228 and my 228 mostly resembles a 229. Funny
88to mid 95 last true 228, in 95 they had changed to no breech block model s not the good ones after then but a few west Germany sig s got out later most had org west Germany parts but us assembly assembly quality fell
@@rickyjohnson9594that's not true at all lol. Every 228 until the final run in 2011 still used the original slide set up.
Loving our M11A1 and P250. Almost 3 years going and still not ONE single failure to anything. Whatever we feed them, el cheapo gun range reload, steel or name brand brass ammo every time we pull the trigger they go Bang!! That extra weight on the M11 makes for one very accurate platform.
great info
It's good to know that you "GunTubers" watch each other's channels. I enjoy both very much.
I have always loved this model and it served our fine military aviators in many SHTF events, I already have a Legacy P 229 and have decided on the P 365 as it is a better fit for my CCW, Once again thank you for a stellar session that you always handle so well. Good health and God speed sir!
Sig P226-9 are my fav. pistols on this planet.
I think some people preferred the handling characteristics of the lighter stamped slides. Just pointed better for them.
Chris, you are a wealth of information ! My favorite firearms channel.
I was in an NSW unit between 2004 and 2007. The 228's had not UID placards. Great review!
love the detail this guy brings to his reviews.
I rewatch Bartocci’s videos more than any two channels combined
I sure like your videos, Chris. Packed with good info.
Excellent video and very educational thanks
Very thorough video as I've watched it two or three times. However, what you didn't cover is the later or most current version of the M11A1 with the P229 frame. What you have there is the M11a1 with the older P228 frame and the magazines are still interchangeable with the P228. When Sig standardized the P229, they replaced the M11A1 9mm with the P229 frame and the magazines are no longer interchangeable. The mag well on the P229 is about 1/16" larger than the old P228 and the older M11A1. The P228 grips also would not fit on the P229/M11A1.
Great video. I didn't know about the 228 early top slides . Thanks.
I'm fairly certain that Naval aviators were issued M11-A1s in combat.
No they were issued the M11 (P228) the A1 (P229) version was never adopted by any military
Great info! Thank you
Actually the P228 and the original P229 9mm's shared the same frames. The P229 .40S&W/.357Sig "Legacy" slide models had a larger magwell for the larger or wider .40S&W/.357Sig magazines. So you can take a P228/P229 9mm mag and put it in a P229 .40/.357 frame but not the other way around. They also used to make 9mm conversion kits for the .40/.357 P229's. Then I wanna say right around 2009ish they made what they called the E2 (E Squared) or "Enhanced Ergonomics" P229's where they changed the slides from the "Legacy" slides back to the P228 style slides to match the P226 and P220's. They also ditched the 9mm P228/P229 frames and went strictly to the P229 .40/.357 frames for 9mm, .40S&W and .357Sig. They made the dimensions of the 9mm magazines the same size as the .40/.357 mags the new mags are marked P229-1 9mm they will also not fit in the old Sig P228's or the old Sig P229's with the legacy slides. They also went to the new 1pc screwless clam shell grip then they discontinued the E2 models and then discontinued the standard P229 models and brought the E2 models as the new P229's. Then they introduced the M11A1 which has the original style 4 screw grips but with a milled slide vs a stamped slide. The M11A1's also have the new "E2" frames and they use the newer P229-1 mags. Great review, I really want to get an M11A1 to add to my Sig collection along with a Mk25 or 2.....
It was that way pre-2013, now there's no such thing as P229 9mm frame, all P229 have larger magwell.
@@rustynail246 do you like not know how to read..... That whole thing that I wrote up there like 3 years ago pretty much says that. Like "right around 2009ish they made what they called the E2 (E Squared) or "Enhanced Ergonomics" P229's where they changed the slides from the "Legacy" slides back to the P228 style slides (minus the stamped slide, they're now milled slides) to match the P226 and P220's. They also ditched the 9mm P228/P229 frames and went strictly to the P229 .40/.357 frames for 9mm, .40S&W and .357Sig". So 2009ish..... pre dates 2013, so yes 2009 is right around the same time frame as 2013. And actually I believe that they transitioned prior to 2013. I could be wrong, but I remember that prior to 2011-2012. Also the fact that they "ditched the 9mm P228/P229 frames and went strictly to the P229 .40/.357 frames" means that they discontinued the P229 9mm frames so they no longer are being produced. They still exist, they're just not being made anymore so you're not going to get a brand new one. The brand new one (9mm) will have the .40/.357 frame or larger frame because they're all the same frames now.
The durability of the milled stainless slides on more recent Sigs makes a lot of sense, but personally I find the older stamped sheet-metal slide Sigs more elegant. They are the Sigs that I lusted over back in the 80's and 90's so I keep an older German P226 and P228 in my collection, even though I use more recent sigs for competition here and there.
Makes a lot of sense? Yeah...? Why? Are you planning to fire It without recoil spring????? It makes more sense to Sig Sauer . They brought their cost down. Not the retail price of course. Now you have a slide that is heavier no more breech block, a hole on the top of the slide for the safety pin to move in an out and a huge external ejector that cuts thru the serrations. A Mona Lisa with mustache so to speak...
@@charlyromeo7926 From a durability and production sense. Don't have to weld the ends on and put in a separate breech block any more, just mill it all out of one block of stock in one go with CNC. And then the corrosion resistance of stainless vs. carbon. Of course we're not all SEALs, but I believe they were the ones who got that ball rolling for their MK25s. Extractor uglier sure, but more robust and easier to replace than the internal one or even the smaller one. A Mona Lisa that can halo and infiltrate by sea, if you will.
@@Fugettaboutit ΟΚ.babe.....very good.
Old sigs best made west Germany nine USA come close some or being sued for the 365 I beleave had problem nine with real German sigs run like tops USA made no way close all diff beast
Liked and subscribed after watching. You really know your stuff. Makes me curious what your background is.
@Sckarekrow yet here you are learning yourself...
nice piece
M11A1 My wife’s daily carry Pistol.
the extractor is huge because its made from low quality Pakistani mim along with most of the internals
Would you ever consider doing a Review and chronicle the history of the Sig SP2022 ?
James Crandall got one right now
Great cant wait to hear the history on it nobody breaks the back grounds on the greatest weapons as well as you do and that's why your channel is one of my favorites.
Glad to see someone else mention it, the sig pro 2022 is my favorite weapon of choice.
@@pLAST3RdISAST3R sp2022 for the win!!! Gray guns trigger coming soon for it!!!
cody cox true or false
Good stuff.
The hi mag capacity can be used to fire and movement/ aneuver to reach them with heads down
The prices now on the M11-a1 are very high. I would never sell mine
I wonder if the Beretta Centurion competed for the compact pistol contract. I really like the Centurion models.
*accidentally makes machine pistol *atf at your door
P228 is the best handgun.
I on a Sig p226, A beretta 92FS, and a Glock 19 gen 5. And all of them Serve a purpose I like them all but I really like this M11 I have to have one. I will carry the Glock Over the send because I will personally I love the Sig more The glocks are just lighter and cheaper to me
Comparing the M11A1 with my P228, I do not notice the weight of the slide nearly as much as with the new P220's and P226's. So to me the handling characteristics are pretty close.
I must be the only person in America who has a P224 🤣🤣
I perfer the P228 or M11A1 over the P229. It looks like the M11A1 has phosphate coating on the internals and controls, and the same magazine release as the MK25. The P228 is the Glock 19 of the Sign lineup
New2Kendo the M11-A1 is a P229 non-railed frame and rounded trigger guard, SRT trigger and reset, coated internals like the MK25 and night sights. The mags were not modified to hold 15 rounds as the P229 9mm standard capacity is 15 rounds. It says 228 on the grips but it has no relation the original P228's.
@@hammercrg its a bit different than the P229 yes it has a SS slide, but the cocking serrations on the M11A1 are the same as the P228 (which I perfer), depending on the model the trigger is different, its non railed (I perfer), I have seen a few German P228's for sale, if I find the right one I will grab it
Hi,... Nice job, great info... Wi!l the m11a1 15rd mag. Work in the p228?
Carried a P228 in Iraq in 07 to 09
So for carry purposes what's better the p11a1 or the 229 I'm confused which to get
You're a Hoss holding onto a full auto P220. Would you do a video about Kahr Arms. I think they're a very interesting gun design.
When the Kahr guns work, they work well. I’ve had more than a few lemons with them though, as have some of my friends.
I wonder if the P11-A1 slide would work on my 228 frame. My 228 was made in West Germany.
*Underappreciated classic*
A great pistol that does not get the attention it deserves. Great to see it does not have a rail as I think putting a light on pistols causes more problems that it solves (notably misuse as a flashlight and accidental discharges), which should only be operated by the support hand as with long arm mounted lights. If you are in a low light situation where illumination is needed then the support hand should be holding a flashlight, so how are you going to operate the weapon mounted light effectively while holding the flashlight? Using two illumination aids is a recipe for disaster in a high stress situation.
I also don't like the look of most rails, with the multi-slot Picatinny rails being especially ugly and prone to catching on clothing if no light is fitted, while fitting a light to a pistol adds bulk and could adversely affect the operation of a polymer frame pistol depending on its size, weight, or the clamping force applied to the frame. If you had to hit someone with a polymer frame pistol that has a light attached the frame could be severely damaged and cause the pistol to malfunction.
www.rt.com/usa/164840-gun-mounted-flashlights-police-shooting/
www.denverpost.com/2014/06/07/gun-mounted-flashlights-linked-to-accidental-shootings/
www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sd-me-flashlight-gun0160922-story.html
@US ARMY VET 11B 96-14
Tell that to the people shot by police because they confused the trigger for the pistol mounted light switch in a high stress when they were mentally tired at the end of a long shift. Or don't you care because you figure anyone a police officer points a gun at should be shot? Lets hope its not you or someone you care about.
Got an early one at full MSRP. Upgraded it with an SS guide rod and DAO trigger and cried to see them going for almost $500 less six months later.
So would you say in essence that the M11 A1 is better than the 228?Being that it has an updated more durable slide,SRT trigger,and Sig night sights?
The 228 and the m11-a1 is the same pistol.
The M11A1 is mechanically superior to the gi M11/P228
A friend bought one when they first came out. The the drawbar ate a groove into the inside of the slide just behind the firing pin safety plunger. It wasn't very deep, between 1/32-1-64" by eyeball / thumnail and didn't cause any functional issues. However, it was unexpected wear nonetheless. Sig claimed this was normal... I've owned sigs since 93 and and none have ever exhibited such wear. Imo sigs quality is not what it used to be. I cleaned up and polished the contact point on the drawbar and saw no discernable added wear but the damage was done and faith lost. The gun was sold..
You will see the M11A1 in the Air Force. Not it’s predominant side arm but they took in an x amount number of units of them.
the air force used the M11. Not the M11 A1. The M11 A1 was just a P229 that Sig built as an homage to the original P228/M11.
Has sig ever claimed responsibility for their mistakes? I really have a love/hate relationship with this manufacturer.
Just found out these aren't on the California roster. So bummed out.
My p228 has a machined slide. I bought it back in the 90's. Not one malfunction so far. I've never seen one with a stamped slide.
The p228 has a folded carbon steel slide that had some finish machining done to it but it is not machined out of a block of steel.
@@youbob28 Thankyou. Yes, so I've recently found out. I never would have guessed. Still looks milled to me... even now knowing it's folded.
@@Golgafrinchamdent Check out the edges on the rear slot of the slide and where the slide catch engages, looks like the sides of a washer. Never get rid of that pistol.
@5:15. I had a M11A1 while in service. FYI
A question I have, wouldn't the P229 frame that was designed to fire the 9mm/40S&W/357 Sig be more durable than the 228/M11-A1 which was only designed to fire the 9mm? The more powerful higher pressure 40 and 357 Sig rounds would put more stress on the frame wouldn't it?
I ask because what if I wanted to fire Underwood +p+ 9mm ammo out of my 229, I would want the model that could withstand the abuse. I don't want to use 40 or 357 sig, I like the high capacity 18 round Mec-Gar magazines in 9mm you can use with the 229.
So, wouldn't the P229 be better suited for +p+ ammo rather than the P228/M11-A1?
the slide is different, of course it's stronger, but the barrels I think are the same. the frame is a aluminum alloy, same as 228. I think all p series can shoot +p+ for limited round count. You might want a stronger recoil spring. if you wanted a more powerful round just go with 357 sig.
I’ve notice your expertise on Sig firearms and wanted to ask you about a certain purchase I’ve made recently. I saw an M11A1 and it had a rail and I never seen M11A1’s like ANYWHERE with rails. I wasn’t even interested on purchasing a M11A1 bc I already have the Sig P228 made in Germany. However I ended up putting money down on that particular M11A1. I didn’t know that Sig ever manufactured P228s or M11A1s with rails and I’ve NEVER seen them even on the internet. And yes it was brand new from Sig. Did they just use a P229 lower and just threw the M11A1 slide on it? or what are your thoughts?
Joshua Richardson I never saw a rail on a P228 until the P228A1 which is really a P229 with 1-piece SS Slide.
SmallArmsSolutions thanks for the reply!!
There are P228R guns out there. I have one. Sig produced them around 2000-2002 with the last of the German carbon steel slides. They were contract overrun guns as they have “US M11” engraved in them which was then laser etched over as Sig cannot sell actuall M11s to the public.
Not sure what a “P228A1” is as that model doesn’t exist.
phoenixtx so there being a fixed amount of P228R that we’re made. Is it safe to say they did that with the remake or however u wanna call them newer M11A1’s?
@@TheJRich24 Negative. These were made 10 or 15 years ago, long before Sig ever made the M11-A1 (released in 2015 I believe?). Also the P228Rs are German-made frames with German-made 228 carbon steel slides. They use the original 228 13rd mags. The P229-1 mags designed for the P229 and M11-A1 will not fit in the P228R.
The only pistol I will never sell.
wait until that extractor breaks and then sig tells you its fixed and it breaks again after 12 rounds
@@robbydane625 On the M11A1? I have a brand new one and a fairly new German P228 that has probably 150- 200 rounds through it. I noticed that the overall quality is higher on the P228. Theres the slightest play in the slide of the P228 whereas its comparable to a Glock on the M11A1. The lockup on the P228 has literally zero play, and the M11A1 is again comparable to a Glock. The magazines also eject smoother on the P228. The decocker is wobbly on the M11A1 when dissasembled. The M11A1 trigger has a slight creep compared to a P228 in SA, maybe thats just an SRT characteristic. They also went away from a braided recoil spring, its just a single wire spring now. The M11A1 is still a great gun but the fit was a bit dissapointing for the price they charge.
I believe the M11A1 is issued as a carry pistol to Navy and Marine fighter pilots
Sexiet auto pistol ever made.
Q: why are UIDs stickers and not laser engraved?
I was just asking the same thing.Mine came loose a little after cleaning and lubricating the pistol so I took it off
M11 is used by the Coast Guard.
Strix not that I know, last I knew they were P229
The p229 dak is issued. Investigation Agents have the p229 dak and p239 also. All chbered in 40s&w.
Ivo got an original West German made P228. That’s nonsense about the pin holding the breach block in snapping. That ONLY happened on the Exeter USA made ones. Also the benefits of having that pin other than the USA made ones is that U Can’t remove the pin. Therefore u can’t get to the breach block n clean it. Not got if u are a SEAL n go under water. I KNOW that special forces all over plus the Secret Service for example used ONLY the West German made ones. I have NEVER heard of a original P228 EVER failing. That’s a fact
Mark Sketch I have broken several personally. The SS sac life’s do not have this problem.
Sig website has it listed as a 229 come on man !
229 is an entirely different pistol. 228 isn't commercially available anymore.
Could it be said, based on the comments I have been reading, that the slides last between 25,000 and 30,000 shots?
True M11 slides between 12 to 25K. The new ones which are all stainless, I have no clue. Don’t see it ever wearing out accept possibly the recoil spring stud maybe
@@SmallArmsSolutions Less than I thought... Thanks for the reply!
Thats based on my doing destruction tests on those Sig pistols when testing parts for Lasermax. I would break the pins which held the breech clock into the slide. I would break trigger bars. Went through recoil springs. I wont say the slides failed, components did.
@@SmallArmsSolutions Super interesting!!! Thanks You!
My carry Pistol.
I didn’t want to like this pistol. Actually I wanted to hate everything about Sig firearms. Mostly because I couldn’t afford them. It was a very hard way of thinking. I don’t think that way anymore after acquiring my M11A1. Yes it’s expensive. However my life is worth way more than what this gun costs.
not every sig has a braided spring my 225 didn't come with one and neither did the 220
Yazzy Fresh very unusual, short of Lasermax spring guide lasers (which use standard Rocket Wire springs) and someone who put an aftermarket recoil spring, I have never seen any sig without a braided spring.
@@SmallArmsSolutions My made in april 2020 M11A1 also didn't come with a braided spring. I was a bit puzzled at first but that's just the way they make them now I guess. A shame really, that braided spring was unique to Sig.
My P239 came with a flat spring and I put one in my P290RS. Also upgraded the P220, the P290RS, the P239 and the M11-A1 with SS guide rods.
It’s mostly standard issues to all naval aviators as well
Didn't know about the former sheet metal slide.
Sounds dreadful; not something I would want.
Sagittariustoo, the older sheet metal slides on the P228s and P226s are LEGENDARY for their endurance and longevity. These guns were known to go tens of thousands of rounds in their lifetimes. With normal maintenance, replacement of parts prone to wear, and a light gun grease on the rails, the older P228s and P226s are some of the ONLY firearms I can recall never having seen break after 25 years as a firearms instructor. Buy the older guns with confidence.
The stamped sheet metal slides work just fine. As long as you replace the recoil springs every 3,000 rounds the life span of these slides are much longer than the life span of the owner. Your great, great grandchildren will be shooting these guns. The springs come in a set of 3 for $19 so, nobody can complain about the cost. My West German P226 will always be the #1 favorite pistol I own.
Wesr Germany sig s best ever made a true classic
It was 1995 last if best made 228 then they when to CNN machine slides some got Thu after 95 best I'd the West Germany proffed Swiss police to toned rare finds had pw Redman inported they up there in price now day 2500 gun broker in box and more to tone nickel even more rare best 9 m on the planet