B&C's NEW HLX Compression Driver Technology is Louder, Cheaper and Sounds Better - DH350
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- B&C's newest technology the HLX is an advancement for compression drivers. HLX allows compression to be made cheaper, smaller, louder, lower distortion and according to Bennett, sounds better. Join me as I talk to B&C about this new technology.
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New Way to Manufacture Compression Drivers: 0:00
Magnet Structure: 3:00
How Compression Drivers work: 7:00
The New Trick: 8:40
What Excites You: 10:40
Bolt Pattern: 12:58
Release Date: 16:24
Price: 17:45
#diyaudio #proaudio #hifi - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Compression drivers are such cool tech. Glad to see companies innovating like this.
I am a big fan of a lower Xc point. 800 hz or below, with the proper horn. Can't wait to hear these drivers.
Great video Toid, thanks. Always good to hear about new tech in drivers.
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it. I always enjoy hearing about new tech as well.
Thanks for covering B&C pro gear.
I appreciate it. Feel free to share it with other people. I think this is really cool technology and I hope more people see it.
so epic. these are my favorite videos you make. i'm planning a horn based speaker build, and I may have just found my compression driver!
too bad I can't find anywhere to buy this yet, it's too new.
My question, especially if the engineer can see this, is what is the BEST horn to put this in (to get to 1khz or lower, even 800hz if it's feasible)? NO adapter. cost no object... I don't need it to be the 60 or 70 dollar ME45 that they show in the product page example. I would like a wide horizontal coverage, but I'm open to elliptical or exponential or maybe even a CD horn, or a round waveguide, or oblate spheroid. Faital has a good looking one but it's only 60 degrees wide, costs like 120 or 140 or something. I'd be looking at the bigger DH450.
Thank you! I appreciate hearing that
Depends on what max SPL you're looking for. But small(ish) working area drivers like this (or the new Beyma CD151 or 171) really need large size, narrow dispersion WG's to get them really loud @1kHz. For home use, loudness is USUALLY not the main problem though. At home I'm running Kartesian Cmp35_vPA's on small (about 7" wide) tractrix style Faital STH100 down to 1250Hz, and this is the lowest THD/IMD combo I've ever measured @1250Hz @100dB. Those drivers are built with the same idea as theese (lower lens-to-diaphragm compression ratio, perfect lens exit summation)
Don't stare yourself blind at the x-over frequency before having tested the drivers/WG's/mids you're going to use though, it's often much more important to match directivity and power handling between the WG and the mid driver, no matter if that means moving the x-o a few hundred Hz up. For a 12" mid and about 12" wide ~70-90deg WG you usually end up between 1100 and 1300Hz. For an 8 or 10", maybe up to 1500Hz depending on how your particular mid "beams"
Other options might be the LaVoce HD1004, or any good JBL/Selenium spare part from their current lineup
@@AJBtheSuede thank you for the response. Do you have a link to perhaps a forum post about your build or something like that? I haven't heard of those components so I'm quite curious.
I've been mainly looking at 1.4" CDs, relatively high end, but this one seemed feasible.
I'm going to be crossing to a 15", hence why I want at minimum a x-over below ~1050hz, and the lower the better. I've found affordable combos that could do say 800-900hz, MAYBE 500-700hz. And potentially I'm willing to spend more, but I'm not worried about quarter wavelength "beaming" calculations, that's quite conservative though it would be nice. Anything less than half wavelength I'll settle for, since my current custom horn mid speakers (3 way with a ribbon tweeter above 9-10khz ish) are crossed somewhere between 1500 and 2000hz (don't know didn't build them, this is based on ear with sine wave generators). So even the 1k mark would be a big improvement, and I want to be able to skip the tweeter for the top octave too.
I'm open to drivers that cost several hundred dollars that's not the issue, I'm just wanting a sensible combo that gets 95% of what's possible for a smart amount of money (for a 2 way where strong bass to 30hz or lower is important). I will build large cabinets, and I don't shy away from DSP EQ. For example my current speakers use a JBL 2225h (crossed too high obviously) in large relatively low tuned boxes but regardless need at least 18db boost centered at 30hz, but are more than capable of producing the bass I ask of them once that sensitivity/FR is corrected for. In fact I can hit about 28hz at an SPL I'm happy with, and not worry about exceeding their 5mm xmax.
I may start my build with the 2225h's for initial cost reasons (and because they're extremely excellent drivers), but ultimately I'm looking at high end B&C 15"s that have roughly double the xmax and are designed to play low in a reasonably sized box. I have more than enough amplifier power available too.
So my SPL requirements for the horn are not super high. I don't normally listen to music above 85-90db, though that's an average so factoring in the dynamic swings maybe I should account for plus 20? 110-120db seems sufficient. I'm more concerned with quality, and I don't set my gear up for flat response I like elevated bass. I'm not into damaging my hearing and I like to be able to listen for an hour or more so I'm not pushing avg db more than 80-85, and usually not even that high, maybe 75. I'm more concerned with sound quality. You know, distortion (including IMD as you mentioned) and good dispersion characteristics.
My mid horns are 10.5" x 3.5" exponential horns and use old Akai phenolic CDs, probably 1"or less I believe, and ribbon tweeters from the jvc zero line (these are actually nice!). They have a nasty peak I have to tame around 2khz (at least 6db), and the directivity doesn't match up with the woofer well at all obviously. Though with EQ they sound quite good... But that's relative, I know it could be way better. (I have a Umik-1 and REW, and use a PC as my only source, with infinite EQ options, good DAC, good amp).
I'm even considering b&c 464 coaxial CDs and the me464 horn just to let you know what I'm open to, but I feel that may be overkill. I've found reasonable (sub $350 let's say) CDs and maybe an me90 or something to play to 900hz, or a couple options that might go a little lower.
But again, if I can achieve 95%+ sound quality performance with a sub 1050hz x-over for less I'm open to whatever, but I'm not looking to cross a 15 at 1300hz or something. There is a celestion 1" CD that can cross at 1khz and a horn that can load to that as well that I've spotted.
Think big 15" 2-way, tuned to 35hz, crossed at 1khz or less, that can actually play to 20khz, with decent polar radiation graphs (esp horizontal obv.)... Give me 30 degrees above 10-15khz, no lasers. I would actually prefer a horn geometry that's not "constant directivity" due to the distortion (reflection) elements that are increased with CD designs, which is why I'm only looking at 1" and 1.4" CDs that beam less than a 2".
Given the above background info, I'm quite open to outside input as I have not found the "one right answer" on forums for a 2 way 15" horn build for medium money. It's like it doesn't exist, but it should ... there MUST be one best answer for a 500 or 800-1khz x-over and 80-90 degree coverage with a 15" and a horn, for say 2 or 3k tops. This should be simple.
Sorry, I have no published project data on this speaker set :/ It's my current active project, so still working on the lower bass module. I very much recommend the Kartesian drivers though, for almost exactly the reasons that the driver in this video is interesting. Low lens compression ratio (lowers THD mainly, and can help IMD), simplified but good quality magnetic structure. But the Kartesians are really flat way out to 20+kHz without major resonances, something this new DH series seem to lack. I really don't know if that's important in the grand scheme of things....Kartesian only have EU shipping partners yet though, so hard for US/asian customers. Here in the EU I paid something like 230Eur/USD standard retail for a pair, which is extreme value IMO.
One thing I really do think you should look into is getting the best SQ 1" throat CD you can find locally (like maybe the one in this video, towards summer?), and then find a 1.4" throat waveguide that has a purpose-built 1" to 1.4" adapter. The adapter NEEDS to be made (or at least match) the throat angle of both the driver and the WG. IMO there's more (and better...) options to choose from if you look at 1.4" waveguides, but for home, "high fidelity" use 1" throat drivers usually have better high range (8-20k) sound quality. For use with bigger mid drivers, in home settings, that's what I'd recommend to any friend right now. A short, straight conical section leading into the main horn throat does many good things, and very few bad things (if everything is smooth, angle-matched)
The 1" market has really evolved the last year or two, with over 20 years of development stagnation to claw back. JBL, Beyma, 18sound/BC, Faital - all of them have new and interesting drivers that are a step up over what was available for the same money five, maybe even three years ago @@Artcore103
I want sum too comprehension drivers are fun to build with
Now i know i'm living in the future!
Jtr owes you guys. Do any of thier speakers not have b&c drivers?
Hmmmmm... Build some high efficiency PA style surrounds, using this CD, a horn, and maybe an 8 or 10" driver? The form factor of these seem they would lend to thinner enclosures
No they won't, because you still need a horn large enough to support the x-over point you want. It doesn't allow for smaller speaker designs, just lighter and cheaper. If you're referring to depth, I don't see these being much different.
I love horns, but it wouldn't be my go to for surround speakers in a small domestic environment. If you did want to, you'd be best served by a maximally wide dispersion controlled directivity round or square design for wide even coverage. And you're looking at 8 or 10 inches on the horn probably even if you would settle for a 1.5khz crossover. 12 inches or more (more is better) for 1khz.
Any measurements to share?
There’s some in the video, but I’ll try to get some more measurements when I get some in
So it seems home theater has shifted toward pro gear. I feel like there is a new niche in home theater. Theres the theater guys that save for 15 identica speakers, and theres the camp that uses a combination of diy and pro gear to get more of what we want for our money.
Agreed
What are you going to build with these?
You tell me? What do you think would be a good use case for them?
MTM, these and Dayton SIG180-4. Easy 8 ohm load for AVRs.
@@Toid I am thinking that you can diy a coaxial driver like using a existing design and replacing the rear mounted CD or use a 12"/15" driver an figure out how to place it in front of that driver. There are some designs made over the years but I'm curious if you would take the challenge and build something like that.
@@Toid PLEASE use the bigger one, even if you do the small one do the big one when it comes out to.
Given the price, I don't think anyone should buy the smaller one. The bigger one is just plain better... Louder, lower crossover point (marginally but still). The only potential advantage of the smaller one is perhaps slightly wider dispersion in the last octave. But I'd rather have the spl and maybe 200hz lower x-over.
@@hifiman4562 mtm is such a bad and overplayed design, unless it's a 2.5 way. Bad vertical off axis performance, which even if listening on axis will affect the sound since we know off axis sound affects overall sound through all the room reflections.
I think people think they look cool or something, there's no upside. Put the 2 woofers below the horn and make it a 2.5 way or 3 way. You may be wanting to better match the sensitivity of the horn by using 2 woofers, but you're still going to have to pad it anyway... MAYBE some very sensitive (approaching 100db, if they exist in that size) drivers could come close. But if you're going to pad it anyway, then who cares. 1 6.5 or 8" is plenty if you're supporting the bass with a 2.5 or 3 way.
Re: the adapter. If you follow their lead and think inside out, its obvious. Rather than a mounting plate, you have an insert cap that the driver bolts to, flush, that then bolts to the horn flange. The driver is still in the same orientation/location, and it becomes securely attached. 3d print in plastic or CNC in aluminum. Or, injection molding would be quickest and least expensive on manufacturer's side.
Where do i send my consultation fee? 😂😂
That’s a good idea
Yeah, as long as you precisely and smoothly match up the angle and curve.
??
Where can diy’ers get these?
The tentative release date was discussed at 16:24 I'll also let you know when I hear more definitively
@@Toid thanks, i got excited before finishing the video. Will be interesting to try out.
Do we have any distortion measurements or are we stuck just with marketing hype?
There’s some they released in the video
@@Toid Timestamp?
@@Thomas..Anderson I don’t have it offhand. But if you watch the video, you’ll see it.
Hmm so in other words, they have discovered the faceplate-less dome tweeter. XD