How Scottie Pippen changed the 1998 Finals | Enhanced pod
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- čas přidán 19. 02. 2022
- The 1998 Finals are remembered for Michael Jordan's last shot in Chicago, but an incredibly important (and forward facing) tactic shaped the series. In this podcast segment, Mike Prada explains how Phil Jackson used the incomparable Scottie Pippen to completely disrupt the Jazz pick-and-roll in the illegal defense era. Mike's upcoming book, "Spaced Out," is about modern NBA tactics and scheduled for a late 2022 release.
Full podcast episode: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
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Website: www.backpicks.com
Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
www.pbpstats.com @bballport
www.basketball-reference.com
stats.nba.com
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Music by csus (instrumental)
#ThinkingBasketball - Sport
You need more of these videos. You could literally do this with every playoff series ever
The co-stars and role players of the 90s Bulls and 2000s Lakers post seasons were special, they would be a mine for great basketball and analysis. Pippen jumping all over the court and doing It all with a maximum mileage and hampered body for sure my favourite, but Kukoc, Horry, Rodzilla, Harper-old Harper, old Grant etc, great stuff.
Also the post-Duncan-carry jobs Spurs, mid 2000s dynasty.
And then the Lakers and Spurs' post season competitions of course made it a whole masterpiece together.
For real
Things like this aren’t explain in basketball history enough and people just take numbers at face value. A perimeter scorer in the era of illegal defense (Jordan) always had spacing, or something like a 1on1 matchup. And in the modern era, shooting bigs create the spacing that went away when they overruled the illegal defense.
The in between is the deadball era, the 2000s. Guys like Kobe, AI, TMac get a “shot chucker” label, when really, they were the first and only group of stars to play basketball with zero spacing. The 2 bigman lineups of the 90s, without the rules that forced defense to follow them outside. So its reasons like this that comparing the stats of someone like AI, to a modern guard today will never ever ever measure his real impact. Or even going back and comparing Kobe to Jordan. The numbers dont see that major change.
Not the first and only stars. Go watch some late 60s and 70s games. The spacing was horrendous before the tye 3pt line was added
You can adjust for all of that by simply looking at their efficiency relative to league average instead of comparing them 1 to 1. Guys like MJ and LBJ are still head and shoulders above the chuckers you mentioned.
Exactly. MJ himself even said he hated playing against zone
@@Youngster543210 Legends will be legends regardless of what era. Moreso when the playoffs come around and then these guys play at a different level than people trying to over analyze regular season stats for. Especially the ability to make the midrange automatic when jumpers are hard to buy and just making difficult shots overall.
@@Youngster543210 It’s not that simple. Playing with spacing and switching today allows for stars to have these huge gaps from the league average. Superstars today constantly are able to take advantage of mismatches and space in defenses.
Versus back in 2002, someone like Iverson is dealing with zone, hand checking, and playing with non-shooters and STILL everyone knows he is going to take the shot.
Someone like Iverson is naturally going to shoot closer to league average, while someone like James Harden will be more efficient.
Perfect example of relative efficiency just not working:
Iverson in 2001 had a 0% Relative TS.
Iverson in 2008 had a 2.7 Relative TS.
Anybody with eyes can tell you he was a better scorer in 2001. But in 2008, he was in a better team situation with Carmelo, had more spacing, and different rules. You’ll never be able to measure how good those stars are.
What's crazy to me is that in the series before against the Pacers Pippen was tasked with point of attack defense and pressuring Mark Jackson. Truly incomparable defensive versatility.
just absolutely insane. This is probably the only example along with kawhi and heat lebron of a perimeter wing/forward dpoy as the impact on and off ball especially for scottie is almost but not quite comparable to an elite rim protector.
Pippen almost never defended point guards as most of them were too quick for him. Phil could only put him on Jackson because he was the slowest point guard in the league. In fact, Phil almost always based his defensive assignments on position.
But whenever the smaller, quicker guards like Price, KJ or Hardaway began torching the Bulls, it wasn't Pippen who would switch off onto those guys. It was Jordan.
Scottie defensive strategy was outstanding. He could score, pass, defense, act as a facilitator and an energy so efficiently in his career. He could easily play all the position too.
Haha 1d1ot
Imo, the illegal defence rules being removed has to be taken heavily into consideration when comparing the players in the mid 2000s to the players of eras before them. When looking at the great scorers of the mid 2000s people are quick to point to their low scoring numbers and low field goal percentage, but once people realize that they might have played in the toughest defensive era in league history (no more illegal defence, and not much spacing) I feel they can rank them better. Understanding how tough the defence was back then will allow people to have greater appreciation and respect for the scoring numbers players like Kobe, ai, tmac, young lebron, young d wade etc. were able to put up.
Couldn’t agree more. As a younger basketball fan, I find it crazy how the older generation who love the 90s just don’t discuss illegal defense. They act like it had no impact at all. In reality, it completely dictated how teams could scheme defensively. It makes me wonder how well the vast majority of fans who watched MJ really know the game like that since this has just been swept under the rug like it doesn’t matter
Crazy thing is, older fans would blatantly ignore that. You won't really understand how tough it is to score if the opposing team plays zone defense if you haven't experienced one. This just puts my respect to the scorers of the 2000's on a higher level.
@@michaelgieseler2799 I guess it gets swept under the rug because even the league didn't want to glamorize it. Part of what stays in the public (dare I say casual) consciousness about what they fondly remember about NBA things is if its marketed as such. I mean even the NBA now won't acknowledge your observation about the results when illegal defense was finally lifted and the results it gave.
Don't forget Nash too. He was a rare efficient shooter in that era
The problem with Ai in this conclusion is that even compared to those guys he shot the heaviest volume along with bad efficacy dude shot like 38% from the field in a season he won the scoring title which is why the title lost its a prestige (since you could chuck and win it) until Tmac and Kobe and made it that both efficiency and volume matter
The illegal defence rule was an absolutely insane thing to put in place. Presumably they conceived it as a kind of rule mandated spacing (?).
They wanted more ISO ball. So when they eliminated that rule, Offences had to adapt by making it more team oriented. Because teams came up with more complex defensive schemes.
It still exists in the defensive 3 second violation which I think is just the dumbest rule
@@thomasbrady3827 Especially when it exists as an artifact of its time yet never gets enforced. May as well remove it altogether.
@@jamescruz8678 it gets called from time to time but only when it's blatant.
THEY CREATED ALL RULES FOR MJ TO WIN RINGS SELLOUT LIES
WILT IS GOD RIP. WILL NOBODY EVER BE NEAR GOD WILT !!
We need that video of the evolution of defensive rules and how it shaped that end of the game; absolutely.
Upwards of 90% of the people who watch this will not be able to grasp watching the game with that type of illegal defense.
I think it’s vital to understand and have a background in this facet of history.
*Upwards of 90% of people watching this video under 45
I'm under 50 and remember the 96, 97, & 98 playoffs from my 20's pretty well.
I think a video series that adds context for why the rules changed would bridge the gap between the older and newer generations of basketball fans. I know TB already touches on it every now and again but I think showing seperate episodes on Wilt, Shaq, Jordan and Lebron dealing with new defensive strategies would be an awesome watch.
Thinking basketball is the perfect channel to explore how these developments impacted the game we watch today. Love the videos Ben. Keep up the masterful work.
Sunday just got better. Pippen is just another level of basketball. He has his problems with mouth nowdays but let's not forget he was incredible to watch.
He was like Walmart version lebron for his era
@@tiktokexposed898 Not Walmart, basically a lite Lebron
@@tiktokexposed898 More like a smaller Giannis, Pippen wasn’t even close to Lebron in term of skills (3pts, logo 3´s, midrange, fadeaway, passing, vision, anticipation, IQ seeing 2 moves ahead and even his handles).
Pippen was a smaller Giannis, or Kawhi without the elite shooting.
@@dusk6159 Scottie Barnes is also very similar to Pippen, he is just bigger but i think Barnes will be like Pippen when he will reach his prime.
@@dusk6159 Also Kevin Garnett, but KG was more skilled in the offensive end, but in term of body type, athleticism and being able to guard multiple positions they are very similar
i would love to see a video on the evolution of these rules, it seems crazy that they ever implemented them so it would be nice to know why they did it
Seconded. I think adding context for why the rules changed would bridge the gap between the older and newer generations of basketball fans. Thinking basketball is the perfect channel to explore how these developments impacted the game we watch today.
Sounds like they ditched it because it was too hard to enforce - at least with the bulls 4-man switching. Not sure if alterior motives, like getting more of the players involved instead of just the PnR guys, were involved.
It could be similar to the addition of the No Hand Checking rules, which gave guards more freedom of movement and the defenders a tougher job, and coincidentally more offense, which is easily marketable and increases revenue.
Probably because illegal defense made basketball more entertaining for the fans. More 1 v 1, more drives to the basket, more dunks etc. Zone defense and other illegal defense can kill the play if you don't shoot 3s well and in that era NBA players either didn't shoot 3s well, or their coaches didn't let them shoot as many 3s as they do nowadays.
@@barrymccociner4105 Illegal defense rule helped offense and that's why it existed in the first place, to make the game more entertaining to casuals and thus more profitable.
@@barrymccociner4105 The illegal defense rule made it much easier for Jordan than any hand checking could.
Was about to go searching for that Bill Walton clip, thanks for including it at the end.
Finally. Smart people talk about basketball in a smart way about Scottie Pippen.
I Agree Bro.. Scottie was Brilliant
Hahaha at smart
@@nonamewillbegiven7228 hey man, game recognize game, and the subtleties and nuance with which Scottie played can sometimes be overlooked by someone who just watches to see who puts the ball in the basket.
@@RetroKid Pippen's overrated thanks to 1d1ots like yall
@@RetroKid and that also goes for the fools of this channel who you actually think know ball
Love these enhanced podcast parts
cool! I was so unaware of this dynamic as a kid watching this series!
The outlandishness of how teams abused the illegal defense rules is exactly what pops into my head when someone says "Well, MJ would have been impossible to guard if he had 3pt spacing like today!". He already had that due to the dumb rule.
He had the greatest first step in NBA history paired with an era that gave him basically a free run to the rim with late help all game long and no staggered defenses to make him pickup/pass rather than get to his pull-up at will. As an MJ diehard even I can admit that, idk what keeps others from being so biased that they can’t even acknowledge what’s literally on tape.
Those people would get the tier of heaven-layup line status for the offense in the 90s had they watched one single game of the era.
Also, there were matchups that made this a whole other tier of evident, for example some Bulls games when matched up with the Jazz or Hornets, MJ isolated against Hornacek and Bogues.
Mr. Plow It doesn't matter there was 1.Way less spacing back then making the lane more congested and harder to navigate. Don't act like that's not a big deal. That is a huge deal 2. No defensive three second lane violation so the opposing center could literally sit under the hoop waiting for Jordan 3. Defenders could literally put their arms on you to control you and smother you even when you had the ball as long as they didn't shove you or hack your arm. Nowadays you literally can't touch the ballhandler making it easier to score.
People who try to discredit MJ love to talk about MuH zOnE DeFeNsE as if the greatest mid range shooter of all time paired up with elite 3 point shooters wouldn't be able to beat a zone defense it's ridiculous.
@@chadzard4 Did you not watch the video? Look at the spacing MJ gets by virtue of just having 4 guys (most of which arent even great shooters) stand on one side. Jordan was obviously an absurdly good isolation player, but let's not pretend the rules of that era didn't dramatically favor isolation scorers.
And as for the ol' "They could just grab and hold everyone!", I highly recommend rewatching some of those games in full. Because the handchecking myth is overblown beyond belief.
@@chadzard4 And since you seem to believe the illegal defense rules let bigs stand under the rim all game, I take it you 100% did not watch the vid nor do you even know how the illegal defense rules of that era worked
This was fantastic. Thanks!
Awesome analysis, guys! Had been waiting for a Pippen video for so long now. Please, please, please do a Pippen career analysis; it'd be so relevant today!
The inability of coaches to make changes because of what traditional knowledge states is frustrating. It's especially frustrating as a Jazz fan because I really think if Malone was the 5 and the jazz take a few more 3s per game (jazz were a better shooting team) we win the 98 finals. It shows what non-threats can do to an offense
It is frustrating but it is part of sport. It is very evident in the NFL where it took awhile for the spread offense to be a trend. Then when it became a trend the league copy catted it and saw how sustainable it was. Then it was on to other new efficient trends like 2TE big sets where you can run the ball and use TEs as receivers to win matchups. But your logic thinking the Jazz could win with that adjustment is unfounded. For one the Jazz have no experience playing small so they can't execute that properly. Two the 98 Bulls were already experienced playing small. So you don't get one up on a team playing a game they already have been doing for awhile.
@@t4d0W I get your point of copy cat league stuff. I hear what you're saying with the jazz having no small ball experience, but my point is the bulls were probably not the first team to try using a roamer on d against the jazz. It likely didn't workout for the teams that tried it because they didn't have the personnel so the jazz never practiced it. The bulls did have the personnel. We see a similar thing with the jazz now, 5 out teams are hard for the jazz to beat despite near league leading offense because it pulls Gobert from the rim. Hard to beat teams when they have a free lane to the hoop
@@cgleason9976 It doesn't help for the current Jazz team that their roster is constructed poorly. The problem isn't Gobert getting played out. Its that from 1~4 they offer minimal resistance to shot creators at the perimeter. Which leads Gobert at an island at times to try stop the penetration before its too late and if he does get help, congrats as the ball already moved to an open man. Its happened before with Kevin Love's T-Wolves squad. Poor perimeter defense and the inability to switch put Love in a situation to be the rim protector and he's not cut out for that. Because there are teams that don't play tiny 2 man back courts and a big that can hang at the perimeter and are very tenacious defensive squads (Heat, Grizzlies, Bucks, Cavs, T-Wolves are top 10 defense team, Suns arguably are best defense next to the Warriors).
The Bulls aren't the first but defensively they arguably were the most effective to do it. And as I wrote about stubborn conservatism if that was the case, other franchises would have taken the cue to approach their team building in a way they have. But consider that Pippen as an 'archetype' of a player was still pretty rare and the league still loved to run the offense inside-out.
Well, Depends on if your non-threat is Dennis Rodman or Mark Eaton. Worked out for us.
@@Biostalker420 it worked out because the bulls were ahead of their time. The whole starting lineup was 6'6 or bigger and able to switch. And for all of Rodmans offensive faults, he played bigger than he was and was not an unathletic ostertag or foster. Credit to the bulls for building a roster that was able to take advantage of the jazz weakness. However, the jazz put one more guy out their who can shoot reasonably well for the time, anderson, I think the jazz win
Love the content ben
I love these snippets so much.
Hello Ben, I’m french and I love your channel. I learn a lot every video.
I want to be a pro basketball player in the future so that help me a lot.
Best Enhanced pod yet!
*Zone Defense in the 80's and 90s Inside Hoops thread* : I found a cache of articles from the 80s-90s detailing the extensive use of zone defense (ie: illegal D). There is a common misconception that these schemes (which teams use 3% of the time according to Synergy Sports) had never been used before the rule changes in '01. The truth is, there was what was termed 'outright proliferation' of zone in the league in the late 80s that the NBA rule committee attempted to curb, unsuccessfully. The Lakers, Sonics, Jazz, Knicks, and even the Bulls were teams that were known to employ Zone schemes extensively.
A major reason for the NBA doing away with the illegal defense call was it being hard for officials to enforce. It was about as consistent as traveling/palming violations in today's game ie: Not called anywhere remotely as much as actual violations occurred.
Anyway, enough from me. Let History speak for itself: www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?345176-Zone-Defense-in-the-80s-and-90s
True
I don't see any zone defense all I saw was a bunch of people talking
Thanks for the vid
When Ben Taylor drops a video, I stop what I'm doing and watch!
Could you do a video/podcast on Anfernee Simons? I feel like his play this season has been criminally overlooked
The clip at the end was kinda bone chillin and mad awesome :D
The best basketball channel.
Read in Pippens next book: "I was Draymond before Draymond"
Great stuff. GREAT
The illegal defense rule change was the biggest shift in basketball in the last 30 years..That's why it's so funny to see people say that NBA doesn't play any defense today, when guys could literally just go one on one all game back then.. Scottie was a great player back then but I do think his offensive game would be weak weak in comparison to guys like Kawhi, PG-13, Jimmy Butler, Giannis etc who are his size, can play great defense and score much better than he ever could..shows how much better the league is now
How can you be an all time help defender and the best perimeter defender ever with those type of limitations on your own turf?
Especially with being a complete package and workhorse on offense as well?
Sheesh, he would be in paradise.
I think Kawhi is pretty much what you would expect to see Scottie be like on defense in today's game
@@DAS63 yeah but no. Scottie would be better
@@DAS63 It would be a better Kawhi but, ironically considering Kawhi's motor and attitude since the last half a decade, a Raptors-Clippers age Kawhi with an insane motor and workhorse commitment.
It's a sight to watch the Bulls era Pippen games with him working on defense, especially when both him and someone like Rodman are on the floor.
Would also be crazy to see LeBron bulldozing through this weak defense of the 90s.
Wow great explanation
Need a top 75 analysis series, or top 50 or top 20, just a series on the careers of great players
Greatest defender without a DPOY
Nope
Should have at least one
Him and Kobe should’ve gotten 1
Bill walton casually being futuristic
Hey man! I think a video on Anfernee Simons breaking out could be due sometime in the future if he keeps this level of scoring up. Another great video idea could be how the Celtics have started to make things work this season.
the moment he said "illegal Defense" you already know. he knows his fing basketball.
No he doesnt
Another podcast bite... I like this...
If I rememeber correctly, the Jazz kept a center because they needed a rim protector
Great Video as always Mr. Thinking basketball. Please can you do a greatest peak video on Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson, Please?
I would love a video of how rule changes affected the game.
more of this please
Enjoyed the video, could you post that clip of Walton you mentioned?
01:16 they only have to be above the FOUL line because the other player is outside the 3 point line..
And they can help if the player that got the ball (number 40 S.Anderson) dribble the ball...as soon as he dribbles the ball they can help.
SPACE AND PACE
PACE AND SPACE
Damn. Bill Walton sounds so natural as a broadcaster
Honestly this one rule makes every old head who complains about there being no defense in the league today look so stupid. Sure you can't manhandle offensive players anymore, but you don't see KD out here getting free ISOs and you don't see teams starting 3 scrubs winning anything.
Didn't the Bucks win Last year with Middleton as the only other all star?
@@solemagus4761 We just forgetting Jrue Holiday with 17 and 9 with excellent defense in that finals?
Imagine putting prime Kobe, AI , tmac even LEBRON with that type of defensive rule? they would have tear through the league like butter. early 2000s ball was the most hardest era to score on. No spacing and no illegal defense rule, absolute garbage spacing back then
@@solemagus4761 Jrue's decision making on ball and being the 2nd best defensive player next to Giannis was key to the Bucks making a push. Middleton is nice but he's nowhere the iso defender Jrue is and in the playoffs, you will get those situations and he will do his job. It also allowed Middleton to do his thing as the best 3rd option for the Bucks.
@@ShanLoHoops Tracy Mcgrady, Kobe and Iverson played in the 90’s lol
Imagine how much more scary Jordan Pippen Rodman and Harper would be without illegal defense.
It would just be plainly unfair.
Pippen was already cloning himself and being the best help defender already with those limitations on his turf, and the three of Pippen, Rodman and Harper were already turning the 90s Finals competition into blowouts at the rec center.
It would look ugly.
I mean Pippen was the quintessential mold of that ideal two way wing player that GMs would try find and develop from the 2000s and on. Jordan as amazing as he was as as scorer was king of help defense at the wing. Harper is no slouch defensively as well. Rodman was an amazing 1v1 defender and just boxed out his matchup regardless. All 4 are switchable and they made it super difficult to attack inside regardless. So the lack of a rim protector in some lineups wasn't really felt because of that. It is what teams are trying to do now with the Warriors optimizing that recipe.
@@t4d0W It was over when the 80s Bulls organization actually committed the bare minimum to winning and to their newly drafted superstar, and then doubled and tripled all over it.
Hiring Krause and having Pippen in the draft + Krause fleecing Rodman, Harper and Kukoc was the set of events and historical timings that buried the competition.
Depends. Defensively they’d be the best ever. Offensively, MJ struggles. He said himself in 03 had he played against the zone his whole career he wouldn’t have been as good. He benefited a lot from being able to face 1 guy until basically he elevated when attacking the rim.
I could only imagine LBJ being able to go 1 v 1 until his at full steam
@@hardwoodthought1213 Are you insane? With the spacing in today's league no one would stop Jordan from getting to the rim. Also there was no defensive 3 second lane violation when Jordan played so the opposing teams center could park his ass under the rim to stop Jordan. That wouldn't happen nowadays. Also let us not forget that nowadays you can't even touch someone when they have the ball.
Best explanation of illegal defense I seen.
I doub it
Ben I need to know what hair product you use, please tell me that's not a Patreon exclusive
Could you talk about the Knicks or more specifically Julius Randle’s struggles
I play in the Austrian Basketball League U14 and I am the help specialist of the team and once I was guarding a guy in the corner and he was not very good so I to help in the zone, and the opposings teams coach complained about me and I am not allowed to be in the zone, that was just ridiculous!
Hahaha !
You shoukd do a podcast on the illage defense rule
In the baby skyhook game in 87 tommy heinsohn said the same thing about the lakers in terms of everyone on the court being at least 6'7 and can play any position
This is the REAL Last Dance
No
This is awesome. Thank God they got rid of those illegal defense rules...
Love how Walton says Utah has 2 options, then proceeds to state 2 options that aren't real at all in any way haha
That old rule was so anti defense it's crazy. That wouldn't even fly in today's game.
Tbh back then was balance for biggest star of the team was center, they wanted more big to go one v one, but the league was smart to implement the change so guard and more skill players can dominate which was smart as Now player are more skillful then past player. (Quote more skill doesn’t mean better so don’t @ me how Bill Russell would destroy Jokic)
@@SaltoDaKid shutup kid
your todays game cant even win a bronzo medal in international competitions
The Bulls played zone in the 1998 Finals. The officials did nothing about it, which is rather typical for this league.
Highly questionable result overall when considering officiating, including some very bad calls in both Game 4 and Game 6 on a possession basis.
But hey, no one wanted Utah to win, from the casual fans to the NBA head office. This is a business first and foremost.
I hate how fans act like Lebron has the crazy advantage Jordan had. The league sucked him and Magic off more than any other players ever. People didnt wanna see Russell, Wilt, or Kareem win. But they loved Bird, Magic and especially Jordan. Then Shaq and Kobe definitely got more than a little help for their 3peat. And lately Steph can do no wrong. I got more respect for Lebron and Duncan for winning a lot despite other people being more praised. Russell is my favorite player ever because he won despite the world being against him. Fans gave his white teammates all the credit even though he got the MVPs and the players followed him. That dude won for no one else except the guys he played with and walked away with 14 first place trophies. Lebron and Jordan are definitely the most skilled/elite players ever but Bill Russell would find a way to beat them both.
@@geordiejones5618 yawn troll
@@geordiejones5618 dont compare the robert horry of the 60s with michael jordan.
And I still hear people saying that Scottie wasn’t a top 5 defender of all time..
He wasn't lol. He wasn't even better than MJ.
@@handlebucket6285 lol yes he was
@@handlebucket6285 Well it’s a matter of opinions, but I’d say both of them are in the top *10* for sure
@@6dotz literally all the single defensive coverage stats say otherwise
@@leonide8683 Jordan was a great guard against guards but he wasn't better than Payton or Moncrief. There's plenty of wings, forwards and centers who should be above Jordan. I'd take Kawhi's defensive prime over Jordan's easily.
This is excellent, the 'behind-the-scenes' of it all. This is great for arm-chair coaches that'd swear on everything that somehow MJ "carried" Pippen for the 6 rings. Despite the FACT that Pip' set up the offense & ANCHORED the Def. Even when they handed MJ the Finals MVP trophy, MJ said, "Pippen you're MY MVP",.. "I'll take the trophy, he (Pip) might get the car." ...
Despite the fact that Pippen didnt do those and MJ never said that you b0z0
I love the evolution of basketball. Back then biggest star of the team was center, they wanted more big to go one v one, but the league was smart to implement the change so guard and more skill players can dominate which was smart, as Now player are more skillful then past player. (Quote more skill doesn’t mean better so don’t @ me how Bill Russell would destroy Jokic)
Devolution and they sure aint you 1d1ot
jordan raised the views.when he retired views went down.league changed the rules because they wanted to make it easier for other guards and perimeter players to score.they thought that doing that will raise the views again.they wanted to create new jordans.there is a reason that most guards and perimeter players scoring went up when they change the rules.these 2 trying to saw that it was easier to score back then but the reality is completely the opposite.if it was easier then the league would not have change the rules to increase scoring.
I love this channel. Explains perfectly what I try to explain to so called basketball fans about defense. They never know what I’m talking about so i just stop discussing basketball with them
You're very gullible Strand
love love love
gotta drop the pod on yt
Bill Walton nailed it back in 1998
This is so much more interesting than all Star weekend :) The Jazz offense looks way too simple to make it to the NBA finals.
And yet they did it twice and Stockton is the all time assist leader from running these plays and Malone second in scoring
It’s funny they pick the 1998 finals to showcase Scottie. No mention of his injury and how he could barely move in the last two games. I commend Scottie for still playing in those important games. And yes Scottie was a great help defender and very important, but this video exaggerates Scottie’s importance and implies he alone had a much larger impact on the series than he realistically did.
Screw Pippen
An analysis-based channel this good doesn't deserve the volume of shitposts in the comment section.
Didn't Doug Collins implement something similar in '88 vs the Pistons? 🤔
Pippen guarded Laimbeer I believe...
Possibly so, although Bill was a bit of an outside shooting threat, when that was rare for a big, so it was probably more for Scottie to defend on the perimeter than to roam.
Laimbeer was not a low post scorer.
My question for basketball fans is how modern stars would far with illegal defense implemented?
I recently had a debate with somebody cause I said the 2017 Warriors would sweep the Jazz. I’m even more convinced right now lmao
Sweep? Man the 2017 Warriors would blow them out every single game, repeating x4 the easy Game 3 historical blow out.
Those teams and competitions don't compare, unless Malone and Stockton actually get the help from the all time Jazz pool.
That is unfair to begin with. As a defensive unit the Jazz was built to take on who they can in the 90s. But they also played traditional lineups against others teams who did and theirs just matched up best. The Jazz's bigs are gonna get ran out and Sloane may not even go small out of sheer conservative stuborness.
Time travel matchups is never a good debate, because today's worst team would destroy the best team in the 80s or 90s. It doesn't mean they weren't great at their time, with what they have at their disposal.
@@wallstreetzoomer Today's worst team would destroy the best team in the 80s or 90s? Huh? The best teams of the 80s or 90s may not be as dominant under today's rules simply because they were built for their eras, but you're beyond delusional if you think Magic's Lakers or any other top 5 80s team is getting waxed by the '22 Rockets under any set of rules. I mean, I get it, you just started watching basketball recently, so you're really excited about the league, but come on, why make such a bad take?
The 2018 Warriors almost lost to CP3/Harden +role players lol
Karl Malone this series averaged 25,11,4 on 50% idk how this is a bad series 🤷🏿♂️
He was averaging 30 points against the lakers the series before and had some off games. I’m a Utah supporter too so was hard to watch the jazz lose game 6 in 1998 as they were ripped off. Howard Eisley hit a three that was taken away and Ron Harper hit a two which should have been disallowed
@@danielpauley9113 I remember that Lakers team had 4 all stars shaq Kobe Eddie and nick. And ppl try to act like they were “old” but we know that they were serious contenders
@@JC-po5zy and the jazz sweeper them.
@@danielpauley9113 shutup Pauley and accept the L like the little girl you are
@@danielpauley9113 and stop acting like two shots that wasnt late in the game was gonna decide the outcome
Scottie must to love todays bulls
should illegal defense & hand checking be brought back?
Obviously not for the first. Hand checking potentially, alongside less lenient foul calling
Bill Walton was ahead of his time
Can we see a video on Dirk or Charles barkley
The guy thinks Mark Eaton was a "stiff" and played for the Jazz in 1998. How is he allowed on a basketball podcast??
He was talking about Utah history with Stockton and Malone w/ Sloan which included the late 80s which includes Mark Eaton
@@MrSlashblade troll
Antoine carr must be one of the most misused players in the NBA , he had handles a good jumper and a decent post game
he would be useless in todays era
first 30sec already explained the myth of old school D is better......it maybe ''softer D'' now, but actually harder D now, if people really think about it. Hand check is such a small part of a whole defense system...some so called old school fans act like this single rule made old players so much better than nowadays players. such a BS
Agreed , and there is still handchecking in the nba right now.
yes because team defense will always trump isolation you were limited then and even guys like greg ostertag would not even be in todays league. Even guys like antoine carr would be useless . the pick and roll game between john and Malone would be common nothing special since the entire league knows how to guard it as a team. the jazz was one dimensional even then today they would be easier to beat malone would have even less scoring opportunities
Old school fans? The NBA itself has stated it's easier to score in today's game, and that the rules changes overall were made with the intent to make it easier to score in today's game.
Stu Jackson, former Vice President of Basketball Operations, in 2009: "With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.. The benefits of an open game are not limited to just perimeter players. An open game can benefit a post player as well. Remember, if the players are spaced wider and using more of the court, then defenses have to play those players closely because they're good shooters. The style actually serves to open up the middle of the floor. If a team has an effective post player, he would have more room to operate in the post." Adam Silver in 2018 speaking about the boost in Offensive scoring and the cutting down of the amount of contact defensive players can make: "We had a call with our competition committee last week, which is made up of coaches, GMs, owners, players, officials to discuss just that, and the consensus, or the strong feeling from the group was that the rule changes were happening as we intended." So basically, the NBA itself has stated that the rules changes overall were to favor the offense by opening up the game for them and consequently restrict the defense. It's rather telling that teams and players back in the day would be worried about the kind of defensive play that would be allowed, whereas these days teams and players get worried about the kind of defensive play NOT being allowed, hence why you've got players like Draymond Green complaining about defense not being allowed and coaches like Popovich saying "it's a lot more difficult to play and pioneer defense right now."
The NBA knew implementing zone wouldn’t make up for the removal of hand checking and overall physical defense, because as already stated, the NBA itself said that their overall intention with the rules changes was to make things easier for the offense, which consequently means that overall, they restricted the defense.The NBA itself has also stated the rules changes have changed the game the way they wanted, as intended by they themselves. Kobe Bryant referred to zone defense as a "crutch defense." Great defensive players even in the current era like Draymond Green have said you can't really play defense in the league today. Great defensive coaches like Popovich have echoed similar sentiments. The rules overall restricts the defense, regardless of zone defense. Jordan had to face zone anyway though:
"Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harassment of zone traps and double and triple-teaming"
- New York Times, 1987
"They`ve used zone traps; they`ve put two, three and sometimes four defenders on him"
- Chicago Tribune, 1987
''My concerns are that more teams are going to the trap, 'which ultimately ends in a zone defense for a period of seconds, which makes it extremely difficult to attack in the 15 or so odd seconds after it crosses the half-court line to set up the offense... After our game Tuesday night against Miami, I watched the Laker and Chicago game on satellite TV. I noticed that Chicago has adopted a half-court that L.A. has been using so successfully and it ended up in a zone defense for a period of seconds, which forced L.A. to take a quick shot without the ability to set up their half-court offense.'' 'When you play New York, you have to prepare yourself because they have so many different traps.''
- Chuck Daly, 1988
The assumption that zone defenses are not played in the NBA is false. The rules allow for full-court zone pressure, and because defenses are permitted to aggressively double-team the ballanywhere on the floor, teams play de facto zones in the frontcourt,too. To one degree or another, every NBA team uses some type of zone.
- Sports Illustrated, 1990
"Our teams are zoning now. Rule or no rule. We're not allowed to use the word `zone' but it's a zone.''
- Dick Motta, 1996
"They (Seattle Supersonics) play a zone defense. They shove you in a corner and they trap you at half-court and they run off and double-team while you're dribbling the ball. It's a legal zone but they have a heck of a good defense."
- Phil Jackson, 1996
"I don't think Seattle is going to put Gary Payton on Michael Jordan. We like that matchup because he'll get in foul trouble. In a zone defense like Seattle plays, they're just going to send him some way where they can double-team him all the time." - Phil Jackson, 1996
Utah plays the best zone in basketball. They play a 2-1-2 with five guys with a foot in the paint 90 percent of the time." - George Karl, 1996
"A lot of good defensive teams are playing nothing more than a disguised zone. The Bulls, the Sonics, a couple of other teams do it."
- Antoine Carr said the chief problem with the illegal-defense rule is that coaches know refs won't call it every time they see it. Oh and btw, Jordan at near 40 years old had to play against the zone in 2001-2002, and he was still killing it prior to tearing his meniscus. In the 46 games that Jordan played in 01/02 before the injury, he averaged 25.1 PPG. In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged. 27.5 PPG. In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged 29.7. Rip Hamilton also missed 5 weeks, but when the two played prior to Jordan's injury, they were 15-1. Lastly, if Jimmy Butler, who's inferior to Jordan in every way and is basically a poor poor man's Michael Jordan, if can do what he does and what he did in the 2020 Finals, there's no doubt Jordan would absolutely dominate.
Yup. Advanced checkers is still a lesser game than mediocre chess.
I largely agree with this. Defense now is far more sophisticated. It's just that back in the 80s and early 90s, you could get away with a lack of sophistication with stuff like just tackle a guy in mid-air and let him think twice before trying to enter the lane again, or get really physical with the hand checking so perimeter guys can't get running starts. The rules changes are a big part of the reason why all the top scorers today are perimeter guys whereas up through the 90s it was mostly Cs and PFs.
Let's be real none of us expected our man Elgee to look like that lol
I don’t know who he is, but the guy on the left reminds me of Wreck-It Ralph.
MAGIC was double a lot , illegal defence only happens if the defence wants it ( example the 3 second rule..you can put a player there then steps outside and gets back to the paint) this illegal defence was the same.....you could always double the guy with the ball if he was dribbling...as soon as he passed to MALONE and MALONE dribbled the ball they could just switch, the problem is that would leave someone alone for a long time...
THIS illegal defence was only bad against POST UP PLAYERS...thats why SHAQ made the NBA changed the rules.
Guy on left looks like brooks koepka
great videos but your thumbnail game needs some improvement imo to better illustrate that your breaking down plays
The way I took the context form this video is a little more diplomatic than the degeneracy that may have entailed in the comments. Because of Pippen and the Bulls lineup, they were the exception to the rule that did not allow the Jazz to play the way they would with their 2-man PNR game along with using illegal defense to punish traditional lineups. Yes illegal defense punished every team but to have an answer with exceptional talents on defense and playing exceptionally different for that time (more switching than other teams who can play small and the Bulls could run it however they wanted to), they made other teams who used the rule as a crutch look trivial in many cases.
woah ray romano voice
Yo if u can could u make a video on drose
Draymon-esque pj tucker yep
lmao typical Bill Walton, just casually talking about the future.
Michael Jordan CARRIED Pippen and the Bulls offensively. Pippen was never a Top 5 scorer ever in his career, with or without Jordan.
Michael Jordan is the ONLY player in NBA history to score MORE THAN HALF of his team’s points to WIN an NBA Finals game.
Game 6, 1998 Finals:
Jordan - 45 points
Rest of team - 42 points
Scottie Pippen in the 1996-1998 NBA Finals
- 17.1 PPG
- 7.8 REB
-4.5 AST
- 1.9 STL
-1.3 BLK
- 39.1 FG%
- 27.9 3PT%
- 77.3 FT%
- 49.1 TS%
- 43.9 eFG%
-9 games shooting below 40% -3 games shooting below 25%
6 games scoring below 20 points
-3 games scoring below double-figures
During the second 3 peat Pippen shot in playoffs
40% or less - 29 x's
35% or less - 21 x's
30% or less - 10 x's
25% or less - 6 x's
20% or less - 3 x's
15% or less - 2 x's
In 58 Playoff games during the second 3 peat Scottie Pippen had:
0 games over 30 pts
7 over 25 pts
Pippen scored 8 points in game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals and admitted he would've been unavailable for game 7 if Jordan had missed the shot.
You listed all of that and watched this whole video and still haven't realized what Pippen's role/responsibilities on the Bulls really was, eh?
@@MistahUnknown
Ingrate Scottie Pippen was Jordan's sidekick teammate and role player and Jordan made ingrate Scottie Pippen into the player he became.
Offensive Win Shares
1. Michael Jordan 145.8
2. Scottie Pippen 47.1
Defensive Win Shares
1. Michael Jordan 58.7
2. Scottie Pippen 52.7
Win Shares
1. Michael Jordan 204.5
2. Scottie Pippen 99.7
Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. Michael Jordan .274
2. Chet Walker .204
Box Plus/Minus
1. Michael Jordan 10.2
2. Scottie Pippen 4.7
Offensive Box Plus/Minus
1. Michael Jordan 7.9
2. Zach LaVine 3.3
3. Toni Kukoč 3.0
4. Chet Walker 3.0
5. Artis Gilmore 3.0
6. Pau Gasol 2.8
7. Scottie Pippen 2.8
Defensive Box Plus/Minus
1. Ronnie Brewer 2.9
2. Ben Wallace*l 2.8
3. Adrian Griffin 2.8
4. Michael Jordan 2.3
5. Joakim Noah 2.2
6. Tyrus Thomas 2.1
7. Ron Harper 2.1
8. Ömer Aşık 2.0
9. Tom Boerwinkle 2.0
10. Scottie Pippen 1.9
Value Over Replacement Player
1. Michael Jordan 110.5
2. Scottie Pippen 51.1
Michael Jordan was undeniably the best player on the Bulls and the most important player in history.
@@MistahUnknown
More facts about Ingrate Scottie Pippen!
1994 and 1995 leaders in PER, VORP and Winshares
1994 David Robinson PER
1995 David Robinson PER
1994 David Robinson VORP
1995 David Robinson VORP
1994 David Robinson Winshares
1995 David Robinson Winshares
Scottie Pippen wasn't the best player in the league in 1994 or 1995.
Pippen didn't win any regular season MVPs or Finals MVPs or scoring titles or DPOY. He was just a sidekick teammate and role player.
@@MistahUnknown enter the Lebron stan using Pippen as a weak crutch
Can leave your big on the perimeter in 2022
Its ridiculous that there was an illegal defense rule.
I wonder why the NBA had this illegal defense rule ? like that doesn't make sense
In the illegal defense era it was much easier to spam your best players scoring ability which made it easier to score back then than today.
Every Playoff number from lets say “Jordan era” compared to “Lebron era” says the same thing. In Lebron’s era we had lower DRTG and lower FG% with less 2PT attempts and lower 2PT FG% than back then.
Defense was never better with illegal defense rules standing
True shooting % is higher today….
@@TheBronzeBomber38 which is natural since 3 pt shots are worth one point more and mid range shots are more ineffective. The game got pushed outside since they can stop you nowadays from shooting at the rim more often with illegal defensive rules eliminated and more advanced coverages like hybrid zones are allowed. Only thing is that the transition from mid range to 3 pt outweighs the amount of shots at the rim this resulting in higher TS% which is a wierd stat since it acts like every 2 3 pointers equals an extra shot attempt theoretically bc its worth an extra 2 points after every second 3 pointers but the players never took that shot. It’s simpler to see how many shots did they take and make and where compared to taking possible points per attempts into account. 2PT% is also lower today so my point still stands along with all the others
@@szilardoberritter4135 I know field goal% is lower which is natural when you take more 3’s but I’m not sure about 2pt%. Especially with the amount of long mid range jumpers players took back then.
@@szilardoberritter4135 The old illegal defense was replaced with the modern defensive 3. Only in FIBA can you play unrestricted zones.
there is truth in what you say for both comments. But nowadays players usually just step out or touch an offensive player to be there longer. But that’s not my point tbh. What I mean is that illegal defense rules with the right positioning allowed players to play more isolated at the rim. That’s why it’s called the isolation or 1 on 1 era. I can’t attach pictures to show the examples but unless they doubled teamed a player who is posting up and isolation the help defense usually never arrived in time and for that reason there were many many post ups and shots at the rim. It wasn’t necessary to spread the floor that much thus players couldn’t shoot as well from the outside . You couldn’t use pre rotation to the strong side and zone on the weak side to intimidate players into more outside shots or forcing them to pass up as often. These type of box-man , hybrid zone coverages pushed the game outside. That’s the reason for example why player plays one on one more on the perimeter nowadays as often because if you post up teams can put multiple defenders close enough to the paint and still have enough coverage to swarm and recover on the weak side . If you play 1 on 1 further outside the defense has to cover bigger ground which they weren’t forced to do with illegal defensive rules and that’s why players weren’t that good 3 point shooters back then to spread the defense.
Unfortunately I can’t show pictures but these defenses can also force the ball more out of a superstars hands in high pressure situations.
Teams don’t play this type of defense or be as active nowhere close as often in the regular season as in the Playoffs and that trend is going upwards nowadays.
Stats I pulled up are just trying to prove what I tried to explain here and they align well with the idea. They wanted to speed up the game, motivate players to learn more skills and get the ball moving more while forcing the ball out of an isolating player.
So if the Jazz had one of these modern day Centers that could shoot from 3, Jordan and the Bulls would have lost the 1998 NBA Finals?
Not even remotely
Dope video. Keep exposing the dead ball 90s expansion era.
90s still a more exciting Era compared to the 2010s (LeFraud Era) that saw ratings plummet.
Nobody wants to see each team jacking 40+ 3s
@@Papichulo-xc5nd You're bitter asf
@@KaineTremaine nah tell your gen z cult that.
also known as entry-pass-pipp
pippen aint easy baby
Please stop doing these enhanced podcasts I can’t deal with the fact that I’m attracted to thinking basketball man