Can this new tactic save weak defenders?
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2023
- Weaker defenders like Nikola Jokic and Steph Curry are often targeted and hunted in the playoffs in pick-and-roll (or isolation). This detailed film breakdown & scouting report examines the tactical arms race for how defenses have tried to protect these defenders, the history of "mismatch hunting," and the latest strategic shifts that might protect players in the playoffs.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
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Music by Nemesis (instrumental)
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He had the opportunity to call it the "Kansas city shuffle" or "the cha cha slide" and instead named it "the shift". Ben needs to pay someone to name things for him.
those names are dumb
Lol
not creative with names maybe but the words he uses make complete sense
He probably grabbed it from baseball, where non standard defensive zoning/assignments are shifts.
I'd call it a wheel switch, where everyone rotates one player around, but only where that's the switch type. Shift is a good generic "everyone picks up a man other than their standard man" name though.
Jokic shuffle or Hide the Joke(ick)
This makes so much sense. One more reason position-less basketball will continue to be a trend. I get why it hasn't taken off though. The amount of awareness, coordination, and communication is on whole new level. It's going to take a lot of effort to read and react quick enough to make this a consistently effective strategy but you know if one team can manage to make it work the rest of the league will follow.
it hasn't taken off because every playoffs teams like the nash suns and 2016 hawks get dumpstered by superstar players. Curry had to elevate his defense over the years to become what he is and no amount of coach trickery can change how heliocentric basketball is at the end of the day
You need versatile players and those who still fill a role. It will be hard to get 5 LeBron James’. Something will need to sacrifice. At the end of the day talent wins above all
a big limitation is that your whole team needs to be clicking *including* your weakest defender. many weakest link defenders aren't as aware or engaged as others, which is what makes them weak. this definitely maximizes guys who are exploitable on ball but otherwise smart team defenders, like curry and jokic. even the fact that teams can't beat the shit out of them and wear them down in iso/pnr as relentlessly could be seen as an advantage
It seems the Raptors are attempting to do this
Mike Brown was with golden state in 2016/17 btw
normalise double teaming on the start on their iso on a switch, make others make plays, I love Draymond's IQ is. protecting his teammates and making the offence pass on a mismatch, beautiful defence
Imagine: Draymond and the Joker on the same team. 2 masterminds of the game from opposite ends of the floor.
He saving curry from being exposed, that's why Draymond is so important for warriors, once he retires, curry will not win again
@@protkeytI mean he's with Curry who tbh fits him better and is arguably the best offensive player ever. Hes the best offensive player I've ever seen
What's crazy is that I wrote about a much crappier precursor to this type of defense when I was in high school and I was watching playoff games looking to see how the grizzlies could survive having Gasol on the court vs the warriors. Back then I called it "rotation hell" because of how frustrating it was for offenses if it worked as well as how exhausting it could be for defenses. It's super cool to see that even though it's existed in some form for at least a decade, it still evolved so much in the background despite never becoming a super popular base defense
You can't base a 'shift' defense on non-standard matchups (because then it's a man to man). Probably easiest to call wheel left or right when you have to mass switch.
(I would call a mass shift switch a wheel switch, because every spoke has to rotate the same amount to make it work - double rotating one player in these shifts doesn't work against ball movement.)
@@blackjacktrial I think you're saying something interesting, but I'm having a little trouble parsing it. I think the idea of calling it a "wheel shift" is good, but I'm a bit confused about the rest of your comment. Is there something wrong with calling it "rotation hell" and why did you mention "non-standard matchups?"
Wow love that you were ahead on that rotation hell make sense especially the nba back the the wheel shift LOVE IT as it plays off of baseball THE SHIFT
Let’s start an online pod or forum and get these ideas out their !!!!
@@sergeynazaro1768 my HS actually runs a defense like this but it isn’t just a wheel shift.
Essentially you have 2 guards up, 2 wings, and a middle.
(Isn’t that just a zone?)
Every position is interchangeable, with the focus being on matching up with the right offensive player. Guard to guard etc. If the offense looks like a 1,3,1 set, the defense will too.
Principles: You will always have a man - never guard no one. 1 pass away, be in the gap. 2 passes away, 2 feet in the paint (this part is imperfect bc of the NBA’s Defensive 3 sec rule). On a drive, help across then the next man helps down. Never help up - protect the paint. (This can be adapted like all defenses to adjust for specific shooters.)
Say the offense is a 5 out, with every Offensive player on the 3 pt line - 1Guard picks up ball on top
2Guard picks up a wing
1Wing picks up a wing opposite 2Guard
2Wing picks up corner opposite Wing
Mid picks up last guy.
Ball to 1Wing’s side wing - follow principles, defense shifts. Ball to corner - Mid on ball, 1Wing leaves perimeter and matches up in paint (help on baseline drive, low post, mid post, goes with a cutter until middle of the paint, etc), 1Guard replaces where the 1Wing was, 2 wing has all backside + skip passes, 2 guard has middle including high post/covers pass over the top into ball-side mid post.
This is a lot and it’s not even half of it.
I miss playing bball and it hasn’t even been 3 weeks. 🫥
Nothing "new" about this defense. I was coaching this tactic in JUCO back in the 80s and 90s. The only difference is that we didn't use it to protect weak defenders from bad match-ups; we used it as part of an aggressive defense that looked to trap when opportunities were available, and pick-n-roll played right into our hands. Trap the ball, the rest of the D rotates to fill for the guy who trapped, and either the original defender or trapper would pee off to find the guy furthest from the ball (depending on who was closer). In either case, it's about all 5 guys working as one unit, and anticipating their rotations.
2:57 "Chasing him around the [moving] screen"
Everyone sets moving screens everytime on every level
That's the bread and butter of the Warriors' dynasty!
It is interesting hearing the defensive recovery described like this. This is how my team played defense back in college, except it was lacrosse. Makes sense though since it is a mismatch hunting sport, and pick and roll is a huge part of the offense. Neat to see the similarities in sports
Well, this completely shifted my enitire perspective on lacrosse
These videos have made me appreciate NBA basketball so much more.
The only 'must watch' channel on YT does it again. Thanks Ben, tremendous insight and detailed video breakdown!
Not really , you need to explore more channels guy
@@md4111 Go ahead and list them for me then... I watch tons of content!
@@LaniSternRealty jxmyhighroller is another great NBA content youtuber
Help the helper (peel switch) is one of the best options to defend imo.
It constantly gets you at least a contest and saves energy.
If someone tells you there’s no defense anymore they either don’t understand what’s going on in the court half of the time or they don’t watch the games.
This is especially great for jokic because it preserves his limited stamina - the shorter the recovery, the less taxing it is. So even if the defensive strategy is a neutral relative to their other scheme, it should slightly bolster their offense, by letting jokic stay on the court slightly longer
Yeah, this part fascinates me.
At the expense of the other 4 defenders on the court having to do a little more.
How can you be an “mvp” but get targeted in nearly every offensive setup? 🤔
@@twilson3133 im sure nash, AI, dirk, harden, and other all time greats would love to answer that. even if jokic was an above average defender, say something like steph curry whos a phenomenal defender in the warriors team scheme, targeting him would still be smart to wear him out and slow down his offense. no player is completely perfect, even then best players of all time had clear weaknesses in their game.
@@twilson3133U don t know,ask the Embid in the play offs,cause he is always cooked in the pick in rolls?
I love how you're showing the Warriors from last year a lot but they've been none of that this season.
It hurts to watch them😂
It’s all playoff clips, when they actually play real defence. They do none of that during the season lol
He also showed Steve Nash, who is retired
He also showed Wilt Chamberlain and Magic Johnson
nearly all these clips are from the playoffs and hows he gonna do that for this season
It makes sense in a game where the traditional roles of the positions mean less and less.
When you have centers running the offense and shooting more threes, when a guard like Westbrook can get ten rebounds a game (and not all of them missed free throws), you can shift a small forward to a center beyond the arc while everyone else moves to a different man. A swing man can guard a point guard who's moving without the ball because he's not going to be victimized by the guard's ball skills. And then when the ball's back in the guard's hands, the shift can happen again.
We're talking about guarding for seconds, here, and also about filling passing lanes, trying to create obstacles for an offense, to disrupt flow, prevent cuts. Personally, I think superior passers like Jokic can manipulate the strategy, but I also think Jokic can benefit from it at the defensive end.
This was a great video. Very informative. I'm grateful.
This is what basketball is all about. Offenses and defenses coming up with new tactics to stay on top of each other.
loving the defensive video, never even heard of peel switching, honestly thought they were just in a scramble when the whole team does that shift during a peel
one of the most informative basketball videos I have ever seen. Made a lot of things settle in my head
As a Jazz fan, you could also refer back to their playoff series against the clippers. Mitchell was their only scorer and the clippers just rolled out 1 guard and 4 wings. They trapped him whenever he tried to mismatch hunt and then recovered back to their man. The scheme is so effective if you run a small lineup.
Great content as always! Cool to see the comparison to Rodman in the 80s, although it seemed much more reactionary back then compared to the schemed approach to peel switching/ complicated rotations now
This helps the problem of dragging Jokic out of the paint on switches, but that doesn't solve his abysmal rim protection when guys get beat on the perimeter. You can't hide a center who's poor defensively, just mitigate the damage
These conceptual videos make me feel like a better basketball fan. More informed and better able to make opinions
So well done bro. Your content is excellent. Thanks for your work. And your understanding of the game. It's a beautiful thing.
Appreciate that.
Seeing the Warriors most of the time throughout the vid simply explains their great offense and defense. Position-less basketball is here to stay for sure.
Jokic lead the league in DBPM the last two years, and is top ten in defensive win shares. he's also been 1st or 2nd in steals and deflections among centers the past 4 years.
if they're "hunting" Jokic, it's not working.
there's only 11 players since '74 who have led the league in DBPM multiple times: Giannis (DPOY), Camby (DPOY), Ben Wallace (DPOY), David Robinson (DPOY), Nate McMillian (multiple all-defensive teams), Hakeem (DPOY), Jordan (do I need to say anything?), Manute Bol (2nd all-time in blocks per game), Mark Eaton (DPOY and 1st all-time in blocks per game), Sam Lacey (who led the most times and was only in the league because of his elite defense)...and Jokic.
somehow Jokic is the only "weaker defender" on a list full of DPOYs and all-defensive selections. that's one heck of a statistical anomaly, care to explain it?
Really liked this analysis!! I think it’s one of the best explanations for the game behind what a lot of people see
The Nuggets is one of the teams who had been doing this the last 3 season's. Malone and his staff were one of the 1st ones to adapt this up, but with the weak personal they used to have last few season wasn't that effective, but with the speed,lenght,quickness of KCP,Jamal and MPJ,AG and Jokic smart quick hands it work wonders
Yes, but the problem with it is it leaves the corners open. Corner threes are probably the most efficient shot in the game- it isn't great when the defense is late getting there. In my opinion, Denver goes a bit too far overloading the ball-side of the court, and pen-pop offenses frequently tear them up. Compare with Miami, where defenders are expected to fight over screens and play a more traditional defense...
The problem with Denver is that Murray and MPJ are also bad defenders.
@@minnuss They're not liabilities, and they're good enough in a system like the video describes, where on ball defense isnt as valuable as sheer length and athleticism, which both Murray and mpj have.
Absolutely fantastic video. So didactic, entertaining and lean. Excellent work!!
Yo been loving ur channel for years the film breakdown combined with the stats truly great keep up the good work!!!
Thanks for the support!
Man this is the best layman's analytical video I've ever seen. Defenses make so much more sense now. U just doubled my basketball IQ. And increased my enjoyability of the playoffs incoming with more nuance in the half court.
Thank you.
Love the Xs and Os
Great video, some of the best breakdown on basketball on CZcams now days. Keep it up.
EXCELLENT Video. Thanks, Ben!
I love this channel you guys do a great job 👏🏾
This is one of your best videos. Fantastic breakdown.
Seeing defences rotate like that is amazing. Next level team defence.
wow, i learn more, peels so good
thanks man
some of the best BB content online! Thanks for this breakdown
Great video and great breakdown on basketball defense. Love the game and feel like I learned a lot which i never really did when I was younger. It’s been years since I played and you described it all perfectly in my opinion. Need to get back out just to shoot around again
I'm not sure the double will always be enough to protect particularly slow players like Jokic from being beaten off the dribble. Some ballhandlers will ignore the second defender and simply run around Jokic.
There's a great example of something like this at the end of the first Celtics game against the Mavs this year. Luka and DFS are doubling Tatum, but Luka doesn't get wide enough so he just runs around Luka and dunks it.
Very insightful observations, learned a lot!
Fantastic video! I'm learning so much to appreciate the game on a deeper level. I wonder how this might apply to the Warriors' defensive woes on the road. Are they coordinating their switches better at home?
in soccer this happens a lot too! if one striker is trying to move to defenders the first defender follows him to a point is in the zone of the other, idk how is it call in English but peel it off sounds good, bcs it stops being responsability of the first defender bcs it has left his zone, this is elite movement bcs you need a lot of coordination and fluid movement, excelent video like always
Exactly. And that's the reason why I'm a very good defender in basketball.
I grew up playing soccer at a high level in Europe and from there I got my movement and it gave me a lot of understanding when it comes to help defense and just reading plays. I view basketball a lot less rigid than most players who actually grew up with it.
@@ballislife9924 Geometry, angles, being in the right spot first. Many do not think on this level.
@@ballislife9924 nice dude, here in latam football helps a lot in other sports, roles are defined but in the match a lot of things can happen
This is one of your most fascinating insights and videos on that note in a while
Love it. I will start watching game with a new angle. Thanks
Continue to keep dropping 💎
I think some well-timed weak-side action can really create a lot of problems for the shift. I can picture Klay receiving a flare screen while Steph is going into some pick-n-roll action. Like you said though, no defense is foolproof but just getting into these back-and-forth counter measure discussions are really fun. Keep up the great work!
I wish you had talked more about the counters to “the shift” because I could immediately recognize some perfect breakdowns of it as soon as you get the rotation a name. The most simple counter being a simple skip pass to the next man over, however I think there’s a very difficult balance to find between attacking and control in order to utilize this potential advantage. 2018 LeBron is probably my best example of this. As soon as LeBron went downhill and the peel came, he seemed to always make the skip pass to the wing before the defense could shift over. However, if teams didn’t shift, then you’re just giving LeBron a layup or a lob. But LeBron is an anomaly of height, strength and speed, so looking at how other players break this down is even more interesting. Slower guys like Luka and Jokic have the height and vision to see the skip pass, but don’t have the burst to break through the hedge, so they have to punish with pass/shoot fakes in order to get the advantage. I believe you made a video addressing a similar attack regarding Donovan Mitchell, however he is on the opposite side of the coin where he has the burst to get the 4v3 for his teammates, but he doesn’t have the size to consistently make the extra pass. Outside of speed and size though, you also see players break this down with finesse, and in my opinion dame is the best example of this. He seems to just have an insane knack for sneaking through a hedge into daylight, and it seems like he’s the only player who can best the peeling defender too. Other guys like Kyrie do similar things, however Kyrie tends to opt for the ft line middy rather than getting the ball in motion, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Obviously, the defense has counters of its own, and in response to destroying “the shift” I’d imagine a temporary zone/zone hybrid would be appropriate, but the ability to force a team into adjustments from such a solid system deserve all the praise in the world
nice work TB
Thanks for the vid
Brilliant. I always love the tactical arms race of modern offenses and defenses.
Seems much better than your Coach Bud drop
You got me hyped about defense!
There are no longer positions in basketball. There are roles. The playmakers, the post players, the stretch bigs, the wings, 3andD, roll man etc.
I know some other commenters have mentioned it but this is a defense that’s pretty common in lacrosse which is definitely a mismatch hunting sport
just the nature of the game as much as offenses evolve and get better defensives will evolve as well and figure out to shut down what offenses are doing
Nice work
Very good video ! Thanks
Back in the day we called it helping the helper.
🏆another top tier production
I love these analysis videos. 👏 Studio shows and in-game commentary bore me with their tired (and mostly false) cliches.
I feel like it harder to protect a weak big man defender than a guard defender because they are quicker
This is wild, I literally described this as a potential way to hide Jokic on a /r/NBA thread showing Jokic getting abused on defense a little over a week ago. I didn't even know this was something NBA teams did, I just kind of hypothesized it as being an option (among several that I listed and some of which were shown earlier in the video as well) to try.
Honestly, it's pretty cool to see something I just thought up on the fly based on my own basketball knowledge of watching the game get actually implemented for the actual NBA player in question. Makes me wonder if Denver assistant coaches or an intern were reading that thread haha (doubt it, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't someone on nba staffs looking for tactics on social media that they could try using).
Great breakdown of this and I'm really interested in seeing this in the playoffs as well. I suppose the hard counter to this would be to try to make the peel off player someone that would still be an unfavorable matchup to the weak defender, but there's not many teams that have the player personnel for that to be even possible. Boston, Suns (when healthy), and the Clippers are the 3 teams off the top of my head that could do that since they have two or more elite wings or guards (meaning they can set one up to try to be the designated player the weak defender peels onto).
We did this in my HS team playing a 1-3-1 zone.
Back side guys would rotate to cover outlets when we'd trap.
I feel like some of the purest forms of basketball in the U.S is high school / college level basketball
I already know this will be a banger
wow this could definitely be huge in the playoffs for the Nuggets, love the basketball forensics going on haha
Good video with an explanation as to why some players don't set good screens anymore. Apparently, they are just decoys setting up the next screener for the mismatch.
GSW offense and defense adjustments are a masterpiece.
Willie Green and the entire Pelicans coaching staff needs to subscribe to this channel. Another fantastic video by you guys
You remind me Mavs do that with Luka all the time.
When he is being targeted either him drop or switch first and immediately go double team and let Luka get out of that.
Great video!
Great content
It's actually insane how NBA offense and defense have evolved lately. Offense is evolving faster right now (mostly thanks to the rulebook and officiating) but defense isn't trailing too far behind. Imagine sending a modern coaching staff back to 2005. They would dominate until everyone else managed to figure out their system.
Fr though! I believe advance stats play a role in the change as well
Defense is miles behind scoring is at all time highs these days
Interesting.
Thanks.
That was beautiful, great food for thought and chesslike.
Now this is a quality content 🎉
Beautiful video
I like the nuggets approach more tbh seems like getting teams to have to scramble that way will cause a lot of mistakes especially for the guys less comfortable with creating their own shot.
Damn this channel is awesome
That’s a tech right there for that cover pic, Ben. Curry has grown considerably as a defender and is an able and competent team defender. Also analytics be damned, if you lead the league in a defensive stat, you’re automatically not a poor defender.
I was the manager for the basketball team at a D-3 college and our coach had similar defensive concepts. Don’t know how many times I watched 4 on 5 shell seeing these kinds of rotations
Great video
Great video as always! How do you think shifting fares against teams that use more off-ball movement like the Kings or the Warriors?
Man, that is a fantastic question
Probably not as good since these teams can punish the initial double team with quick passes
Great question. I think stationary is generally easier to guard, but the cool thing about these rotations is that they are built in to handle cutters IF the defenders are on the same page. Still hard to guard those actions, but there isn't an obvious cut to destroy it.
The strong side help scheme toward the end reminds me of Thibodeau’s strong side help scheme with the Celtics under Doc Rivers in 2008
This is brilliant analysis. Truly I don’t think you can ask for more in this type of short content. My 2 modest notes are:
A. you didn’t mention the X-out method, where a guy recovers from the paint on the next pass, as opposed to the coroner while his teammate on the weakside covers for him.
B. more importantly, as things get more complex more mistakes are bound to happen. Implying this is a hack solving modern offense is failing to consider how hard the execution is. It’s good to have a solution, and I’m sure offense will adopted right back, but it’s getting to the point where you have to be so connected that you’re going to have a leak somewhere, most of the time.
Late reply, but as things get more complex the offense will also fail more often. The ingredients required to carry out complex offense are the same things required to carry out complex defense - communication, BBIQ, etc.
this video really makes sense when you start watching playoff basketball . all the teams have unleashed their schemes to hide the worst defenders . mike malone has done a great job this post season hiding jok
The funny thing is that I've seen this happening pretty often with the Nuggets, this season. Malone has been unleashing that during crunch time, as if he wanted to tey it but also somewhat hyde it.
This also show how awareness is probably the most important thing for a defender in 2023, there's no way to recover if a guy doesn't know what's going on, you'll end up giving up a lay up
I think my High school lacrosse team ran this sort of defense, we would rotate the defense into the ball carrier in something very similar. Works great
If any watched how Golden stat spammed switching so much you could see that all they needed to do was to double and when the ball is passed joker can go back to his. I kept shouting at the TV “double team!” Every time they left him alone guarding Steff Curry.
I was taught the hedge in college. works really well. But these pre switches are a mind job. wow.
The Nugget’s tactic is basically the same one as Frank Vogel used against the Rockets when he was coaching the Lakers in 2020. Switch, double, then rotate. The main differences were: James Harden is a way better shot creator than anybody the Nets have, and the Lakers used Russ’s inability to shoot to zone up more effectively. They put AD on Russ so he can be the primary source of help, and doubled when AD was involved in pick n rolls to avoid foul trouble from Harden drives
Your vids make it much easier to appreciate this stuff in real time. Kudos
Wanted to ask you a question since I noticed the clip you included of the raptors and I think its been a huge issue with our defence and wanted your opinion: I love Nick and think he's awesome on defence, but he seems stubborn against using the shift tactic despite our amount of switching. The two areas I noticed it are 1 the clip you showed - after a double up top the initial defender tries to recover to his man eventually instead of initiating the shift and a help rotation. 2 is when a player in the post is doubled (and this is primarily when Fred goes to double down low as he has the hands), there is rarely a shift so that the defender nearest to Fred picks up his man (as that guy is the closest to the ball and often a guard and a shooter since Fred is guarding them), leaving them wide open or initiating a late help rotation, and accounting for some of the wayy to many 3's we give up. When watching the raptors as you showed in the clip, have you noticed that Nick doesn't seem to implement it, and if so, do you think it would help us (especially give up less 3's), as we have the personal to be a great switching defence team?
Video is incredible
this type of shifting defense is used in soccer a lot, cool to see it work in basketball as well. only thing is this type of defense can create a mismatch that can be exploited by offenses
well then all you need is two good isolation scorers, one of whom you put on ball, and then when teams peel you put the second one on the spot for where the helper will come from. Then you get the switch you want from their peel switch, no?
Makes me smile seeing this, this “shift” really exemplifies the phrase that a lot of the best man defenses look like zone at times, because the way they cover some ground to get to a different man is zone like, even though it’s in a man defense.
TL;DR this is another step in the hybridization of man and zone in basketball
I’m not nearly the basketball savant as you are sir, but I’ve been saying since the Cavs won in 2016 over the Warriors that LeBron started hunting Curry in pick and rolls!!!!!!!! That was how they managed to turn the series around! This has been going on for a few years now and it has evolved to become a way to hide weaker defenders. Bravo on this video. This was right on point! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Im a Cavs fan and Klay was always on Kyrie. Bron and Kyrie were always trying to switch to Curry which explains that last shot Kyrie did on Curry a lot more. But Curry ain’t a bad defender as people put him to be now.
The best most analytical basketball channel on CZcams.
It’s interesting to see how a lot of these strategies mirror the defensive rotations used in lacrosse. We called the “peel” a “Utah” (sounds like U-turn) and the “shift” a defensive “roll”, but the movements are all the same. Not surprising since it’s a similar ball sport
The fact this tactic is just coming back into popularity but has existed since 70s xplains exactly why old heads say teams can’t play defence nowadays.
1:58 Chess level of antecipation of future positioning
3:19 That's too amazing
I didn't know this is new, my god i've been doing this before, and also in transition defemse this helps a lot.