Basketball's most overlooked skill | Moving without the ball
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- čas přidán 16. 04. 2020
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Moving without the ball is one of the most valuable skills in basketball, so what makes someone a great off-ball scorer? How is off-ball scoring different than isolation scoring or the pick-and-roll game? This video examines all of the counters of off-ball scorers -- the creative and subtle ways they create openings without the ball -- as well as the history of movement and spacing before the 3-point line (1980). Reggie Miller was the first movement-driven star of the 3-point era, and many all-time great shooters have followed his blueprint, including Ray Allen, Klay Thompson, and Stephen Curry.
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Book: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Baske...
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Website: www.backpicks.com
Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Player art by @CrumpledJumper
Music: 80s Hairlight - Sport
Get that free trial and 50% off the Athletic at @t More videos are coming soon! It's been an adjustment with everything going on in the world and I'm on a daily COVID-19 podcast now with Nate Duncan which requires tons of research twitter.com/nateduncannba/status/1250164784609157120?s=12
As for this video, I couldn't squeeze in every off-ball concept or player. The most notable cut was probably Kyle Korver -- what a machine. Thanks for the great comments, they made my day. 🙏
Thank you for the summary at the end - I appreciate when a video/essay is wrapped up well, especially when there's so much content.
PLEASE make one video breakdown of Steph's Handles. I saw a poorely made video of that and enjoyed it. yours will be a Masterpiece.
Great video. Slight criticism. 5:08 Michael Jordan had a great outside range. As early as his rookie year, he was being compared to Jerry West for his incredible outside jump shooting. I believe what you're referencing is his 3 point shooting which was poor when he first started playing, and was solid later on in his career.
Please can you do a video on JOSH OKOGIE and JORDAN NWORA. THANKS
9:24 nice push-screen by Jordan for Curry's open 3
this. so much this. the lesson people learned from the warriors in 2015 was "shoot three to win."
what they should have learned: have multiple ball handlers and move off-ball to win.
the spurs beat the heat with offball movement as well.
I mean Klay is awful at handling the ball but none less off ball movement has been key for a team to win. Having too many ball handlers in a system that's run through them is a recipe for many turnovers, at times even for the Warriors having Curry and Draymond handle "Too much" gets the warriors too many turnovers.
@@javierlandaverde4108 I wouldn't say Klay is awful at handling the ball but the warriors sometimes do turn the ball over way too much
@@Noah-qr2nl Nahh you have not watch the warriors play, I'm not down putting Klay's talent but he is a below-average ball-handler in the NBA. Even when he played for Washing State in NCAA. Nothing wrong with that, he is an essential Ray Allen / Reggie Miller type of player. Off the ball guard. It goes with his style and does not have to develop his ball-handling.
@@javierlandaverde4108 I cringe everytime Klay tries to create.
Leave that to Steph u are the second best off ball player in the league
@@javierlandaverde4108 I watched probably 30 warriors games in 2019, and yeah he's below-average but he's not terrible at it. At most you probably want him to just take the ball up.
The Curry clips were just poetry in motion these videos and this channel are amazing.
Steve Schmidd you right but you sound like flight
Is this flight burner account
Look at Curry man..
@@RealNormHall so inspirational
Illegal screens
Im sorry but until you reach a million subs i will continue to say this is the most underrated channel on youtube
You yell underrated and it might catch on.be positive.the content is amazing just appreciate it
What happen is that this awesome channel is relativelly new, however I think this channel is actually one of the best basketball annalists of all youtube, and it deserves to have millions subscribers.
Jonathan Frometa you said exactly what i did but in more words
Definitely, if this was a weekly show on ESPN I’d easily watch faithfully
so true
Curry has got to be in incredible shape with how much he runs around on offense, like even playing basketball without that much running can get pretty exhausting
he's the most condition player in the league. problem is sometime his body can't keep. almost like he's a bag of bones.
andrew scott It’s wrong to say he’s the most conditioned player in the league because that simply isn’t a fact nor is it able to be proved. He moves around on offense but is hidden on defense because Klay has been taking on the star guards on defense.
@@Jay-dn2pg He doesn't take anymore breaks on defense than the average NBA player
@@theavatar9191 I'm not talking about breaks. I'm talking about your defensive tasks. He's not gonna have to work as much on the defensive end if he's guarding guys that aren't getting the ball much while Klay is guarding the elite scorers for the bulk of the game. I'm not criticizing Curry for it because it makes sense to put the better defender on elite scorers.
@@Jay-dn2pg Even still, his attention and activeness on defense still gives him a presence and helps the team out defensively. He's not like some other stars, who truly use defense as a break
Buddy Hield needs to watch this video on a loop & memorize it. Iffy handles, decision-making & defense but he will still be a top shooter when decade ends. They feed him the ball whether he's covered or not because he's that good but it's up to him to fight through and get to his spots more quickly & effectively.
The thing is that Sac does not have an isolation ball handler scorer who can dribble and score on his own. Fox is good, not great and facilitates more but if they did have that player, Hield can be a very complimentary important piece to Sac's success
@@javierlandaverde4108 Which is completely their own fault by picking Bagley over Luka 😂😂😂
@@javierlandaverde4108 Luka could've been that guy, those dumbass Kings.
@@yossarian644 the choice was actually Fox or Luka because you couldn't have both on the same team. Having Fox play off ball wastes his main tool: speed and every time I see JJ Barea pound the ball back n forth while Luka stands in corner, I wanna cry. Having a springy big to complement Fox made sense... up to a point: like most generic 1st round bigs, highschool/AAU + 1yr college doesn't prepare them to play the position and they really use one exceptional skill to dominate young/incomplete players. While Luka was a wunderkind Mozart with 7-8yrs of top flight coaching (at his dad's club, then Real & national selection) playing vs men when he was high school freshman. I'd still pick Luka over Fox but that was the real question. The two interchangeable bigs are the same thing in this equation.
@@vlada 2 birds one stone!
It’s been too long since we’ve got an upload
yee
@Pennycost Stinksalot bastards, they locked up much park, now ive got to walk ages to the next one that has no fence gate
@Sadistic Soup theres hella red tape everywhere but no one cares😂😂
Same answer I hear from most companies I call: Due to coronavirus.
vinuzo yea fuck em
I’m always speechless whenever I see a break down of Curry’s off ball game. Beautiful basketball.
You cant see greatness with normal eyes. Unfortunately there are so many normal eyes who think bron is better than curry. Thats not true
Hanurag Reddy so true. I love how they say he isn’t a great passer. You show me a player that plays off off the ball that much scores that much and still averages almost 7 assists a game for a career. I’m not saying he’s the GOAT, but he’s definitely playing his own game. Other than not having a real post game, he’s got the most well rounded offensive game I’ve seen.
@@Bullroarer-oj3sp He is in top 5 for me for sure
@@hanuragreddy1569 Bron is better than curry though.
@@dask5687 Defensively yes cuz of size and offensively no.
Fun Fact: The Warriors only led the league in 3-pt attempts for 1 season ('15-'16).
Everyone tries to copy them by shooting, but dont have the same ball movement and off-ball action.
Legitimately never noticed Curry's fakeout slow down, it's amazing to watch
Everytime somebody who truly understands basketball and it's diverse playing styles makes a video on Steph Curry you truly understand we're blessed to watch a maestro out there who has mastered the on ball and off ball ability to it's absolute fullest
facts
That's why I get so ticked that media members keep taking shots at him and just relegating him to the best shooter. He is so much more than that. Besides, isn't the whole point of basketball to put the ball in the hoop? Well he is the best at that (without dunking). He mastered all of the offball movements, then mixes in his head fake that you have to take seriously because of the limited time and space he needs to shoot the ball.
Curry is playing an entirely different game out there and ppl dont even realize it
He's not just some 30' bomber.
He's got elite handles - yet he doesn't heavy ISO like Irving or Harden.
He gets open, but not just by spamming Pick & Roll.
His constant movement is highly disruptive to the Defense.
He sets lots of screens.
And he's a great passer.
Because of all that, his gravity is really high, and he warps the Defense, making it easier for his already elite team mates to score.
Don't be surprised if the Warriors win another title or two before Curry retires!
@@willhooke one of the good things about Curry is that he is usually decisive when he handles the rock. I've noticed that Irving likes to toy around with his opponents more. For Harden, I think it's built in Dantoni's system.
@@efumali honestly, i don't think harden is comfortable shooting off the catch... most of the highlights i've seen of him, if he catches a pass for a wide open 3, he'll pound a dribble then shoot
@@tjfrye11 haven't noticed that. Good eye.
Still, Dantoni's system doesn't seem to be a cutter's dream system; they seem to be deliberate about slowing the pace down. It is a PNRoller's dream system though.
Erik Umali I’d say Dantoni pushes more transition buckets first, but yeah if that gets slowed it’s either pnr or iso ball with 2 guards that can handle or pass out for 3s
And ppl thought curry is just a shooter 💀💀💀
Harden: Moving without the ball? That's outrageous
started watching hoops in the mid 2000s so Rip Hamilton was the first person I seen really became prominent solely from his off ball movement
Yeah I'm surprised he didn't mention Rip, especially since Rip has talked about how much he learned from Reggie Miller through their playoff matchups.
At first I though he wa a going to mention rip, before he went back to Ray Allen again
MJ should not have traded Rip :(
Soon as I seen this video go up got hype😂
I’ve missed this channel. Glad to see a new upload.
wtf
@@harrischoudhary what
Whatup peebs, didnt know u were into basketball
@@user-qf8jr8mo8s He even sang a song about wanting to play some b-ball 😂
@@PK-ts8iz i aint watch pbg like that in a min but cool ig
There’s a strong connective tissue between Bird and Curry.
!!!
I've been missing these vids so much. Thanks Ben!
On average, how much film do you watch for a single video? Also, I like the new background music.
The guy have a list with the 40 "most valuables careers" and he make a deep analisis of any player on the list with a lot of videos to back what he is saying, so i think that he have watched a least 10% of the avaible to watch games in history
Where’s Rip Hamilton? He didn’t have a great 3 point shot but he would run defenders ragged in the mid range game!!!!’
I also was disappointed he wasn't mentioned. Guess we'll have to settle for the single clip of him between Reggie Miller and Ray Allen lol
@@pd9020 haha indeed, i thought he was gonna mention Hamilton after that one clip
I came here to say this
One of the best to do it
Apparently he used to cut his nails so sharp that when he is coming of screens and defenders are hunting him down he would scratch them so they cant grab his top. Rip was built for off ball movement
That move at 9:07 actually kinda made me laugh
Haha same 😂
It's cause he doesn't just slow down, he sells it by putting his head down like he's tired and taking himself out of the play and then he sprints into an open shot. Oscar worthy acting there.
@@Rahul-eh3rf Oh ok thanks
If you don’t know the only time someone break kawhi ankle in the nba is that time when curry use the off ball movement
Fr
And that one time Zaza...
@@maartenvz lol
Hey Ben, do you have an update on your upload cadence and frequency? I remember you talking around the All-Star period about Jaylen Brown and Ja Morant videos, your podcast release schedule is a lot more irregular than it was before. This is in no way meant to criticize, I'm super grateful for all your content, I was just hoping we could get an update on what you think your video and podcast release schedules might look like. Huge thanks for all your hard work, your content is one of the biggest reasons why I enjoy following basketball.
+
He's been doing a daily podcast about Covid-19 for a few weeks now With Nate Duncan and has been doing other Covid related podcasts as well, based on his Twitter feed. So it'll probably stay irregular for the time-being.
Answering bc I had the same thought a few days ago and then looked up his Twitter and found out he's been putting his data skills to amazing use.
Quarentine moment has to be changing his plans
"That push off... isn't possible while dribbling."
Bryon Russell would like a word with you.
You needed to put doug mcdermott on here. He is playing for a coach who runs literally 2 plays for him in an outdated offense and doesn't score off the bounce but still gets 10ppg on 49/45 splits in only 20 minutes a game.
His offball movement is as good as ANYONE in the NBA and he doesn't even play for a coach who runs many different variations or a modern offense. Teams hold him out of the game like redick but he's far more threatening attacking the rim
I’ve always wished he found a better system. He was poetry at Creighton.
@@OpenYourEyes16 Yeah he came into the league screwed. As a Bulls fan I love Thibs. But his offensive scheme are notoriously ancient. He didn't stand a chance of succeeding in Chicago. If he was drafted by someone like the Warriors he might've had a different career trajectory
@@WhelmedButReady he lost his confidence season 1 and then hoiberg tried to modernise without a modern roster so McDermott was exclusively used as a shooter. His chances of his peak being a 15-18ppg 6man/starter were gone by the time he left Chicago
Reminds me of Reggie off ball
Should have been in the 3pt contest
I just imagine going back in time showing someone from 1990 the section of this video about Curry. They would have no idea how to process it. The idea of someone being able to do what he does was just unfathomable.
If you tell them the year I’d doubt they’d be surprised. Reggie Miller was excellent at off ball movement back then and without him I doubt Curry learns his off ball patterns, obviously basketball evolves, and they know that. So I doubt they’d be that surprised when they have a comparable shooter (not saying he’s as good as a shooter or mover, just that he was good) back then and the knowledge of this being in the future.
I'm late but this is exactly why Miami LeBron was so fucking lethal. He was doing a lot more off ball movement in those 4 years than in any other stage of his career. That's why he was so efficient
Yes. Pat Riley is a genius. He helped complete the prime LBJ monster project.
I watch a lot of Football (Soccer) and I can completely agree with the off the ball work and counter movements from the players.
Overall a concept which should be given attention and thought well.
YES HES BACK LETS GO!!!
Kinda short shrift from Mike here. He’s was scary off ball. Not just those short curls. He was a beast on back cuts for lobs, flashing to the post, even fading to the corner like Bird in this video. It’s what made him so good playing next to a point forward like Pippen.
Exactly, and that's what it means to make teammates better. He made Pippen better by playing off the ball more, which allowed Pippen to utilize his skills as a Point Forward. It meant MJ would end up getting less assists due to being less of a ball dominant player who runs pick and rolls and Isolation drive and kicks all game, but it made Pippen better, as well as his other teammates. I can't stand the casuals who keep thinking someone getting a lot of assists is what is "making your teammates better." Such a surface level casual narrative.
I’ve long awaited your return my brother.
I completely forgot how good Curry is at getting into shooting position off his movement. It's gotta take hours upon hours of practice to get that footwork down to square up the way he does. Like that shot at the end of the play at 9:36 takes an absurd amount of strength and balance. I would definitely roll my ankle if I tried something like that. Got no core.
Now I understand why teams like Denver nuggets are so good.... The have a combination of good cutters and also they have the best passer in the league
Fr imagine Jokic in golden state with cutters like curry and klay. Jokic would probably average a triple double
Another GREAT Video !!!
We missed this so much, but also the old music is iconic for you guys
Really love the variety of your uploads, always an in-depth analysis of different aspects of the game; your content makes me watch basketball games differently.
never again leave us alone for so long!!!
I was waiting for an upload! Love your channel man! Keep up the great work!
I know it’s a couple of people who watched all these videos to help their game you guys can literally build a nba player 👀 I’m paying attention
The most underrated channel on CZcams!
Was waiting for another upload, good stuff! Would love to see a video about how you think are the most underrated players in the league.
This is what differentiates Curry from other Superstars in today's league. You can see how much this aspect of his game elevates him and his team in last years Western Conference Finals, where the Blazers just had no answers and when Lillard tried to replicate it, he simply could not knock down a shot after all that movement and off the catch. Steph is the greatest catch and shoot player because of this and it's truly an underrated skill. It's why he's the most dangerous scorer today.
Lillard was injured duh
@@weneedhim526 Lillard was playing his usual game until he saw how much Steph was dominating with his style, then he tried to mimick the same off-ball movement with catch and shoot, and he simply couldn't do it to on the same level as Steph.
@@theavatar9191 well yeah of course hes not curry and on his level, but he was still injured in that series, and that should be mentioned a lot on why they got swept
@@weneedhim526 they also got swept cuz the Blazers offense and defense were trash, didnt even have KD and Boogir and still cant win one game
I had a big smile this whole video. Not just because you gave us a great new video, but also because I use off-ball movement as my main offensive attack in 2k because my stick skills aren't very good.
Thank you for the video it feels like forever
Spot on as always. Thanks for the video
Thanks ben always love the vids 👍🏽
Damn.... exceptional commentary and analysis... you deserve to get paid for your efforts.... like, by a team etc...Well done!
this is the best basketball analysis channel on CZcams, by far, no contest
I like how well the football(soccer) concept of faster moving offball translates to basketball, woth Kerr crediting watching Barcelona and translating it to the court
Steve Kerr said, if he was the Czar of junior bball, would make all players also play football, because movement after passing is so important to good Offense.
Kerr said the dribbling skills of children today is amazing.
But their movement and praying within an Offense needs improving.
Johan cruyff influence spread across another sport
Fantastic video. Its a lost art to the game with so much emphasis on over dribbling. Thanks
Tryouts monday Im a great shooter I just lack confidence but i’ll make sure to remember this thanks !
This is a really well made video! Thank you!
Excellent video! I especially loved seeing how movement worked prior to what we consider modern basketball.
love the videos man keep of the content
I’m so happy your finally posting again
Dude, your content is getting so good it's becoming scary
Best basketball channel on CZcams.
The footage alone makes this video interesting. The analysis is spot on.
Good to have you back bro.
Awesome videos, thanks for posting!
Finally a new vid. Been waiting forever for this
Brilliant video, loved all the clips of player movement. The way Steph just slithers around the court he makes it look so easy. Controls the ball like Messi
This is great stuff, I'm gonna use this in my basketball game today
This video was so satisfying to watch
Those Curry clips were insane man. Even knowing what he was going to do on each play, with a high camera angle I lost track of him. I always wondered how he continues to get open, and now I understand. The guy's basketball IQ is insane.
The more insane is how he doesn't get tired, he's active in defence and then just run to attack and makes several laps there to get rid off a defender, how he's so energetic, it's insane
Very interesting video. Great work!
This is probably the best video recently. It kinda gave a short history of shooters in that topic.
I'm so happy ur back!! But anyway, I was wondering if you could possibly do a video on the Memphis Grizzlies. With Clarke and Ja being incredible rookies and JJJ's insane shooting, not to mention Jonas. Ik your have did some of these in your 5 thoughts video, but I would just like to see your thoughts. Anyways, keep up the work! Glad your back!!
Been awhile but glad to see an upload still got that bell on
This video just made my week
Extremely beautiful video by the way!!
I love your in depth analysis sir. Im a new follower
I really loved this video that was great you guys are really good at this stuff
Peja Stojakovic was pretty good too. That early 2000s Kings team had the perfect offense for off-ball movement. Perfect passers in the bigs and high IQ guards and wings made everyone a threat off-ball.
Glad to see you're okay boss, love your content 👊
This is an awesome video, Great work.
I just recommend you to watch some clips of Sasha Djordjevic in the 90s, the way he relocated after a dribble penetration is very similar to what Curry (and many others) do now. He's been the first I remember to fully weaponize that move
Great video once again
Your content is just top notch - every. Single. Time.
Great to have you back! What is your judgement on Rip Hamilton's off ball movement though?
Thank God your back!
I audibly cheered when I went back to your channel to rewatch a video of yours and found out you just uploaded today.
Beautifully done! Great video liked and sub
Great video. Well done
This was so enjoyable to watch
Ótimo vídeo, isso é fundamental no basquete e as vezes é deixado de lado.
i missed you thinking basketball. my favorite analysis channel
Hell of a video. You got a new sub.
One of Main reason why Spurs and Warriors are successful is because of their offball movement.
Great video..One thing I would add is how important it is to have bigs that LOOK to screen. Having bigs like Draymond and Zaza who always looked to screen Steph outside of set plays (in transition/broken plays/offensive rebounds) makes a HUGE difference
Great video!!!!
I just think there is a deficit of passers these days. The cut and pin tactic seen here 2:19 has helped me coaching on the high school level. The pin gives the passer that extra beat to recognize the advantage. The abundance of pick and rolls in the modern game has taken place exactly because there only needs to be one playmaker, one guy who rolls and dunks, and 3 that just hang out, make easy rotational passes or shoot. Kerr even said that he went with his spilt and motion actions because he has so many playmakers on the team, Steph, Draymond, Iggy, Livingston, Bogut, and Lee. Most teams don't have that.
Another GREAT video!
I was so happy when I got your notification 😂
I'm so happy to have lived to watch Stephen Curry's entire amazing career. We are all blessed
You are easily the best and most knowledgeable basketball CZcamsr on the entire platform
Title: *Stepback and Crossover Without Ball*
ME: *I DO THAT ALL THE TIME AT HOME*
Getting Your Ankles Broken Without The Ball💀
Matthew Htoo People Dont Like Moving Without The Ball It’s Either Someone Clapping For It On The Corner 3 Or Standing On The Sideline 3 Just Watching Totally Uninvolved
I Wish It Was Tho
curry is a god
God, Steph Curry is amazing.
Yea steph currys awesome i also think lebron is a great player
curry is a god
Love your content