đ§ Game of Thrones The Iron Throne review: A Dream of Spring
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 05. 2019
- Game of Thrones has ended with the destruction of the Iron Throne, the death of Daenerys and the Starks going their seperate ways. Somehow two of them ending up monarchs. In this review, I look at the episode I look at what worked, what didn't, what I loved and hated, and how this was essentially the Return of the King.
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Thank you. I really enjoyed your take on this episode. Iâve watched it twice with some personal conflict in different areas. You have a great way of articulating your thoughts. It was a huge help for me to come to terms with some of my feelings about this last season & the episode in particular.
It took me a while to fully digest it too. Got better on re watch, and I started catching more things and seeing what the scenes were communicating.
The ending of Jon, Sansa and Arya was perfect, I loved the little children walking into the woods, I loved it, specially because most of them are orphans and you can tell they look out for each other.
I think Drogon could feel Jon's grief and horror. Jon was not having feelings of anger or revenge. He was bereft. Drogon was looking for a Target but he knew it wasn't Jon
He certainly knew that it was Jon. He growled at Jon after confirming that Dany was dead, acted as if he was going to burn Jon alive, and turned his mouth away from Jon at the last moment. Then he burned the throne. He couldn't get himself to kill Jon.
I have thought this too.
I just love your positivity. I too enjoyed this season. Were there things I didn't like.... absolutely. But, it's still my favorite show of all time. I just feel like a lot of people weren't paying attention. How many times did Jon have to say he didn't want the Throne?? He's happiest in the North. Then, when he goes North people get angry & say it's garbage. The Dany part baffles me the most. Since season 1 she's been showing signs of someone fully capable of doing what she did ( Insert scene of Drogo talking about murdering, raping & enslaving the people of Westeros for Danni & her loving it). If any more seeds had been planted she would've been talking to Treebeard in Fangorn forest.
yeah, I agree for Danni as well, even though if she liberated slaves in meereen, and seems to have done the best she could do, she litteraly shows other things that people could not understand right in time, cause they simply loved her and were blinded Lol.
Yes, exactly!
Probably the best take on the last episode yet. It ended with hope. They all suffered to get here, but at least have a chance at life in the end. It begins with a ranger and facing a threat and ended with a ranger looking towards a future of peace.
I truly enjoyed this review. Thanks for mentioning Maester Aemon's words when Jon wanted to let the free folk past the wall. It did help me with understanding his character and reactions. I also had a feeling that the minor characters just seemed to be hanging around, not really being used, and I agree that just one extra episode would have helped a lot with that cut to the scene in the dragon pit. Those were little irritating things for me. Overall, I really liked this episode, especially when the bestest direwolf finally got his pets.
Dany did not break the wheel. She is the wheel. It was Jon who broke the wheel when he killed her. In reaction to Dany's extremes, Westeros has discarded hereditary monarchy.
Yeah, I never thought about this, but that make so much sense. Jon and Tyrion I guess.
For an elected monarchy that will bring in even more corruption. How does this make sense?
Truthfully, this show has exposed a lot of people in the ASoIaF community. Especially the people that don't get that they're watching a completely different show than what actually got them hooked. Whatever brilliance the show has has been deluded by the abysmal writing the past 4 seasons that got progressively worse season by season and episode by episode.
Drogonâs mourning his mother almost broke me but Jon and Ghostâs reunion made me shed happy tears. I had to digest the episode but in the end found much to enjoy about it. I absolutely love that Jon was able to go back to his true home beyond the wall, it was lovely to see his smile.
Thank You Matt! So well done and supported. I felt your joy and re-examined my annoyance at certain parts. You and Robert of InDeepGeek are my go to creators to help me understand and appreciate things.
Destroy the ice, destroy the fire. Jon is entropy.
I listened to my GoT playlist arranged from all 8 seasons last night. All voices of criticism melt away as I listened to the soundtrack for the ages masterpiece by Ramin Djawadi leaving only beauty and love for this series.
AMEN. Such a perfect comment
Thanks for a great review! I appreciate your calm, un-angry demeanor. Peace and love!
One of the best vids made on this episode! Beautifully written!
I've discovered your channel few weeks ago. I never subscribe to anything...well I had to make exception. So rare to meet someone so into G.O.T. and reasonable at the same time!!! Thank you very much for the deep reflexion, amazing insight and great resumé.
Thanks for your review&analysis Joe, I also did enjoy season 8 of GoT very much, especially ep 2&6. Thank you for surviving all the hate out there on the web. Ufff, the world we live in...
I think this is my favourite GOT end video. Thank you Matt for being such a good guy and seeing the things you love with more focus than what didn't work in the last season. I really enjoyed this video.
Perfectly articulated. I found so much of S8 really moving & satisfying in spite of it's flaws. Am kinda shocked by how openly aggressive much of the audience is toward it. Enjoyed the subtextual/symbolic callbacks & winks to watchers & readers. Looking forward to more videos!
entertainment.theonion.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-disappointed-with-how-qua-1834843021
Many viewers had their own idea about how the show should end and forgot that the essence of Game of Thrones/Ice and Fire is not to follow the formulaic conventions of typical tv storytelling. Many wanted Jon to fight the Night King, as they say was "foreshadowed" by the staring contest he and the Night King had at Hardhome etc. which would have been the convention, kind of like the expected shootout from the movie High Noon which is the archetype. and felt cheated when that didn't come to pass. To roughly quote Tyrion, if that's what they wanted they came to the wrong place.
@@kdkseven I wasn't sure at first but that's satire and not the actual words of the writers.
@@emintey - I think it's more a comment on the out of control hysteria of a certain Very Online segment of the GoT fandom than anything the GoT writers did.
@@kdkseven I didn't notice at first it was the Onion and I'm still not sure how to take it, you could be right, thnks for the followup.
I'm with below...loved your positivity about the end game...it was tough to process but the more I think about it all the more I understand it. Yes, the time cut between Dany's death and the council was harsh and I wanted more as well.
Thank you, Joe!
Love your take on Drogon. We get no evidence to suggest that of dragons & humans it's the dragons that are the less intelligent life form, the humans just assume this. In my universe, Drogon melting the throne is a sure sign of which organism has their heart in the right place, not to mention taking Dany's body for transformation & letting Jon know the extent of the pain.
If you're going to take an archetype from the mythos to represent power, I can't think of much better than a dragon. For Jon to ultimately relinquish power, it helped him to be unaware of what he was doing until he did it; it helped him to know nothing, otherwise I don't think he'd have got past Drogon in the first place. Analogously for Arya to relinquish her relationship with power over life & death, she had to be physically imperciptible; to be no-one until she's actually performing her assinassination.
As for the love & duty dilemma; if you love your duty & your duty is to love it's no dilemma.
I did not much like all the GRRM vanity though. Oh, who should be king. I know, there's nothing that's better than a good story. I think the author. I mean wizard. should be king. The bloke who ... knows a lot of stories. God is not enough. Oh, here's a big book fresh from the citadel press, what's it called? That coffee cup was nothing in the product placement stakes. What's that you're doing Ser Brienne? Hasn't the point been made yet?
You wouldn't catch a dragon reading a book; they already know all the stories & have all the tongues.
Big win for the children though. Yay. Faerie Queen didn't even need to show up at the conference. I mean trial.
Wyrds are not the only medium for magic. Let's beautify the planet with diverse natural life forms.
So glad to finally see a video that's not just slamming the final episode - thank you! I personally loved it, and thought that the Tyrion and Jon Snow arcs ended perfectly.
Absolutely loved your take on the final episode. Especially your insight into the similarities of the endings of the Stark's and LOTR. The farewell scene on the dock especially reminded me of the farewell scene in Lord of the Rings. Frodo departs for the Undying Lands in the West leaving on a boat as does Jon. To me, I also saw a similarity in Arya's ending as she was also departing on a ship to the west. All in all, the ending scenes were filmed beautifully. I still think there were so many plot holes that hopefully the books will explain...one day. Great commentary!
It is not a similarity, it is a blatant ripoff to try and mask an ending that makes no sense.
Thank you very much for the positive and enlightening review! I almost stopped listening to many 'theory' hosts because of the anger and bitter response to season 8! I saw this season as rushed, yes, but except for some minor problems in character explanation, I thought the ending to be very fulfilling.
I too am looking forward to reading the books and watching any spin-offs that are offered. Love ya Joe! keep up with the magnificent reviews
Joe Magician - This was beautifully done. A depth of emotion which is not typical of such reviews. Thank You. Exquisite work!
I just started following you a month or two ago. I'm so sorry I didn't do so much earlier. Your reviews are thoughtful and on point without a trace of vitriol something we truly need on the internet. Love some of the points you made about this episode. It did make too rough a turn after Drogon flies off with Dany and your suggestions for additional themes are quite interesting. Overall, it was a satisfying ending. I'm really looking forward to GRRM's conclusion to the series and will continue to follow your reviews. Thanks for your great work.
Things that should have happened in Season 8 :
Go back to the 10 episode format to give the scenes time to breathe. Bran goes back to having a personality. He is no longer robotic after fully mastering his powers. Jaime frees Edmure Tully who is now lord of Riverrun & The Twins. The remaining children of the forest, Howland & Meera Reed show up with their people at Winterfell. No stupid tension between Sansa/Varys & Daenerys because the Nightking is too big of a threat for politics. The NK is the big bad end boss, not Cersei or Darnerys. Tyrion goes back to being smart again and suggests sending scouts (like he used in season 2 for Stanis) to King's Landing & Dragon Stone to see what Cercei is up too. The Night King flies down the coast from Eastwatch right when the wall came down & burns Euron's fleet with the golden company in it as they reach the shores of Kings Landing. He then burns King's Landing & the Red Keep to the ground while the dead army in the north swarms and overruns Winterfell. The north flees south while the unsullied, dothraki, Nymeria with her wolf pack and the dragons keep the dead army at bay. The 2nd dead army in King's Landing heads north with the NK leading. Cersei, Qyburn, The Mountain, and a handful of Lannister soldiers had escaped KL & headed for the north with the dead not far behind. Cersei realizing the fallacy of power while having a miscarriage becomes a shell of herself after seeing what the Night King did with zombie dragon Viserion. Arya & the hound stay with the northern armies and don't go on a stupid mission. Danny, Jon, Sansa, Theon, their people and Cersei & company are cornered by the dead on both sides at the God's eye. Arya successfully kills zombie Viserion with a dragon glass arrow through the eye (since they kept showing her practicing her archery). The NK now on foot starts doing his blizzard thing so no one can see a thing. Melisandre & Kinvara show up with dozens of red priestesses to counter it. They also create a giant ring of fire around the living which only the NK & his White Walker generals can walk through. Danny proceeds to burns the dead outside of the circle but the night king kills Rhaegal with an ice javelin. This prompts Jon, and all the fighters with Valyrian weapons to attack the NK & his white generals. The Mountain tries to kill the NK but he is cut in half by the white walkers. His torso crawls away. Jon, Jorah, Grey Worm, Theon, Brienne, all charge and kill the white generals. This is where the night king shows just how powerful he is because he takes them all on with ease. Sandor encounters & gives his brother a mercy killing. Bran worgs into the night kings mind then a flash back of who he was shows the children of the forest killed his family and took him captive to turn him into the first white walker.
To be continued-
No thank you
Part 2:
While Bran is worging into the Night King's mind, he sees that he was one of the First Men 10,000 years ago. He was against killing the children of the forest, and against cutting down the weirwood trees. Because of this, he, his family, and all those who wanted peace with the children were forced to go into exile. The children (not knowing he was in a way an ally) decided to use him, and the men in his village as the first test subjects to become white walkers. The children slaughtered all the women, and girls before tying him to the tree, and sticking the dragon glass into his chest. At first, the children were able to control him, and the other white walkers. Eventually, the remnants of his memory made him overcome and control the magic from the dragon glass. The magic was merged with dragon glass by the first Greenseer ( the first 3 eyed raven) who was one of the children. The Night King proceeded the wage an all out war on the living (children & humans) until he was driven back by the last hero (the prince who was promised). Shortly before being driven back, the NK killed the first 3 Eyed Raven but found out the entity can transfer it's consciousness to other bodies. The entity known as the 3 Eyed Raven compelled the last hero (who was an ancestor of Bran The Builder), the children, and the men to make a pact. Presently, the NK sees the 9 previous 3 Eyed Raven's before he has killed before Bran Stark. Each have a lifespan of a 1000 years. Every 1000 years the new 3 eyed raven becomes more powerful than the previous making Bran the most powerful one yet. Bran Stark was Bran The Builder, whom with the children, and giants built the wall thousands of years ago. The NK sees Bran was the one who made the Mad King go insane when he went back to warn him about the army of the dead. The Mad King had a seizure due to Bran's power which left his mind mad.
Glad you could enjoy the season. I am in the 'this was Cliff Notes' camp. I suggest Trope Academy's Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development and Bittersweet Endings videos for a nuanced, non-ranty take. The Evil Dany arc could have been so powerful, but I felt like the script was a PowerPoint bullet list (e.g., "Dany gives Hilter speech.") The show builds great cinematic scenes but doesn't connect them with enough dialog driven scenes to build out character choices as believable. Finally, I respect Clarke and Harrington but me for I didn't feel the power of their romance. It was key to the intended pathos so the lack of chemistry made Jon killing Dany less impactful. Others may feel differently.
TJ McDonald
Jorah killing Dany would have really hurt me. I'm not sure whether I'm pleased or disappointed they didn't go there.
Yeah that analysis is just silly. No one is saying foreshadowing is character development but every creative writing class Iâve ever taken has taught me that itâs a part of it. I saw that video and ignores that. It also ignores the development that did take place and seems to ignore that GRRM has never put his characters on a linear path to redemption or evil. They began developing Danyâs Struggle between good and evil back in season one and they utilized foreshadowing to assist with that. It was never meant as a substitute. The fans complaining were the ones who created a linear path for her and ignored the detours she took along the way. This didnât come out of nowhere and itâs been flushed out since the beginning.
I liked this episode. I am not that upset with where everyone ended up. It made sense. However, I thought both seasons 7 & 8 were too short.
In respect to that Council, I agree they should have made it longer and provided more information about it. Who were all the Lords at the Council? Who called them together and why? Were they there to judge Tyrion and John? Were they there to judge the Unsullied and Dothraki? Were they there to select a new King or Queen? Were they there to bend the knee?
I think you are so right about Jon. He was fortunate to be shielded from the belief of a future of POWER. He had a choice in the end. It was a clear choice, not contaminated by hubris or entitlement. I was kind of sad to see Jon ride off into the forest at first view but have come to feel very good about it. I want him to find a woman to love and have many children! Now that would make me Very Very Happy
Morning coffee and a new video, excellent! Thank you! đ
Great work Joe! I so agree with all you summarized. Love this series of course there some things i wouldâve liked differently like the speed and more dialogue esp. at dragon pit to flush out some things but overall great show!
Seems like Jon is riding into the emerging Spring with a band of True Northerners that trust him and already see him as their King. Jon has learned both how to serve and how to lead, and even Sansa has complimented his ability to Rule. Practically speaking, TRUE NORTH is the 8th Kingdom, and Jon is the King, and he will build and govern and enjoy it, with or without a "crown," because he loves the North and the people, not because of his name or heritage.
I enjoyed the finale & liked the ending although I agree with everyone that it felt rushed. Sometimes in retrospect things add up better or differently when viewed as a whole. Like the flaming spiral made of body parts ( poor little Ned Umber) that everyone thought looked like the Targaryen sigil. Hehehe. That was sneaky.
Do you think in the books Euron & Bran will be contrasted? If Bran becomes a benevolent God king essentially, isn't Euron basically trying to do the Malevolent equivalent? I've noticed GRRM usually contrasts or mirrors characters ( Cersai/ Catlyn for example) to add depth & layers to the story thematically. Dany/ Bran wasnt really explored explicitly on the show. But Bran was allowing people free will & Dany wasn't...oversimplification but I dont make videos :)
Great job Matt! I agree with everything you said. Goodstuff as usual bud! đ€
Great points about Jon's ending. I think it would have been even more powerful if the choice to return to the North had been Jon's. Have him be offered the throne, but he refuses it: he never wanted to be Aegon Targaryen, he never wanted to be a dragon. His place is in the North, just as Arya's is seeking adventure, Sansa's is ruling by making the people love her, and Bran's is as a god/king: the world's memory.
I can somewhat understand the dissatisfaction expressed by some fans. Yet the viewpoints you expressed in this video I think we'll be how many will grow to feel in time.
Thx Joe for your insight. Iâve been so annoyed by the infantile assessment of so many You Tube self proclaimed critics of season 8. GOT is not a Marvel comic book series. Itâs not Harry Potter or Lord Of the Rings regardless of the comparisons. For me it is an ADULT medieval drama fantasy for a mature HBO audience!
While the last book might end a little bit different IMO both will be very similar. Probably the journey to the end will be more different (ex. Arya won't kill the Night King because there is no Night King in the books) but the overall the ending will pretty much be the same for the main characters.
Same, I don't think they made up the character endings. And Isaac Hempstead-Wright came out and said GRRM told him Bran would be King.
@@JoeMagician
It will make sense in the books and also have the ambiguous quality GRRM likes, because we won't really know if Bran is the protector of humanity or a secret foe.
The North soldiers must have numbered up to the unsullied (without a dragon) in order for Bran to leverage Jon's expulsion beyond the wall. Maybe unsullied just didn't have another fight in them against the North.
Awesome. Nice to hear so much positive!
Thank you Matt! As always, so awesome!
I was just listening to you and Robert on his channel and you mentioned a Podcast where you and other Mods read your favorite Posts. Whatâs the name of that Podcast? I would love to listen! Thanks again!
Maester Monthly!
Okay, Iâm subscribed now to Maester Monthly! Canât wait to dig in! Thanks!
Superb review, lots of brilliant points, please keep up! I was seriously scared to even venture and listen what fandom has to say about the GoT finale - well, your take is more than just not disappointing, it is positively inspiring. Thank you thank you.
Joe, off topic I just watched the targaryen dream video good job. Question : Why doesn't Jon Snow have dragon dreams?
This was nicely done with much respect for the characters. Thank you. I hope you continue to do these about the various chapters in the books. And I wish someone would do Outlander!! Itâs fantasy, time travel, war, rape, history, healings. So much!
Thank you again
I am with you on Outlander.
the hawk I wish someone would work with them!!!
One of the best things about this episode, in my opinion, is showing all these little Wildling kids. Jon going to Hard Home saved them all. And for all the haters that were pissed off when Jon left Ghost...do you think Ghost would have survived what happened in King's Landing? Jon knew that Ghost belonged in the north.
Have really enjoyed your thoughts, between you and others in the community I have great hopes for Gs final books.
Thank you for this video. I honestly think people arenât used to characters who live in the grey area. Most of the complaints Iâve heard are from people who wanted linear paths. They wanted Tyrion to be smart the whole time; ignoring the fact that he struggled with rectifying his desire for a new system and his family issues. He loved his family, and wanted them to live and he also made decisions like Castelly Rock because he wanted it his entire life. It was to spite Tywin posthumously, who would never give it to him. Ppl got mad Jaime said that he didnât like the ppl of KL, but he didnât like the ppl of KL bc they treated him horribly even after he saved them. His redemption arc was never going to be linear; it was always going to take a detour where Cersei was concerned and ppl got mad at her death, but sometimes bad ppl donât die horrible deaths. They never get what they really deserve. Ppl wanted Jon to fight the NK which is way too predictable and too cliche. They wanted a literal payoff of the prophecies; ignoring the fact that Mel told us that prophecies donât always play out the way we think they will. Jon and Arya both killed fire and ice. They both stabbed it through the heart. They both brought the dawn. I feel like Danyâs arc was flushed out through all eight seasons. People ignored the dark side of her character and turned her into a one note savior; the writers didnât do that, the fans did. I loved the finale, and I actually really liked the dragon pit scene. I do think they should have told us who everyone was, but I thought it was a good scene. Varys wrote to all of them and the show has given several characters posthumous vengeance and/or completion of their living objectives. This was Varysâs vision coming together. He wanted the Lords and Ladies to bring peace to the Realm by choosing a stable leader. He wanted Jon but I think he would have also supported Bran. I had a hard time with Varysâs death even though she warned him. Tyrion thought he was betraying him for the greater good; he really believed in her and he thought she would choose mercy. He also thought heâd be able to save his family. He thought she was the best option for the realm and he weighed that against one life. He thought the end justified the decision to betray him. He didnât want to see her killed bc at that point he still believed in her. We as viewers knew but he didnât, so it was hard to watch him die. I really believed he was on the side of the people and the only one telling hard truths. It was hard to see him die like that. He was also one of my favorite characters. I cried several times in both 8 05 and 8 06. Part of the beauty of this show is its ability to make me empathize with villains. Cerseiâs death made me sob. At that moment she was a pregnant woman wanting to save her child and she was scared to die. I felt that. They made me forget who she really was for a minute. I thought Bronn and Ser Davos could have been utilized more, but I liked that they showed him trying to help ppl get out during the massacre. I would have liked to have seen the Golden Company fight at least a little bit too.
The problem I had with S8 was we didn't see Bran have a Wierwood net battle, we didn't see Bran and Tyrion conversation, and Jon wasn't elected king after Bran. Jon imo could be one of the best Kings ever. I did like that Tyrion, Sansa, Jon, and Dany worked together to take out Cersi. Dany gets a bad wrap, but her decision was just imo. In conclusion vote Jon Snow for King, and anyone with military experience going forward. Kings with military experience are imo the best Kings.
This series lost it for me with the lazy and disrespectful dispelling of the main threat (White Walkers), and it got worse from there. :( Episode 2 to almost the end of Episode 3 (pre-NK death) was damn good!
Excellent video Joe the Magician, and something I absolutely agree with. First part was great, the council stuff was...not so great. Ok, you said it better than I did. I didn't love this season or season 7, because it was Cliff note/ butllet point version of GOT, so much for "conversations in elegant rooms" as Tyrion has said, we had none of that past episode 2. The fact the Unsullied went to Naath made me giggle a bit because no one is going to survive that trip with the butterflies. Did the show runners never read the books yet somehow guessed Jon's parentage?
So many of us hated the storyline and ending; sounds like you were ok with it but I still canât buy it as good storytelling.
Different strokes for different folks and all that :)
I loved it. The season certainly had it's issues, but overall it was strong (episodes 2&3 are among all time fave GoT eps ever), and the finale was a fitting end for our characters, and for a great show in general.
The thing I had no issue with was the story line, it was pretty much spot on in it's overarching depictions. There were things that could have been handled better, like Ghost in episode 5 but those are smaller and side issues. My main complaint would be that it was too short, obviously.
I had to laugh when Yara Greyjoy talked about killing Jon and Arya told her that if she said that again she'd cut her throat and she stf right up, and she would have too!
Arya killing the Night King was also perfect and exhilarating, it was justice on more than one level. Dany's character flaw of Targaryen entitlement was her undoing, for me rather than Dany breaking the wheel she embodied the wheel, with the wheel being tyrannical rule by the self entitled being replaced by some sort of rudimentary popular government.
I usually rewatch the show and I just can't after season 8. It hasn't been the same show since season 4 but it was still pretty good and much better than most things on TV these days. Season 8 for me ruined it and made season 7 mistakes and sloppy writing more evident. I am sad and depressed I wish I could like season 8 or at least over look the writing.
Ellen Burke
It was join - the - dots storytelling. They left it to us to make sense of the ending, if we could.
Thank you Joe!
This was exactly what I needed to comfort the anxiety from the parts that were disturbing from the lack of dialogue..
it's not by robert frost, that's his version, it's a famous anonymous italian renaissance ditty
I felt like Arya had a major role in the last episode. She condemned the Dragon Queen. She was the specter of death.
Thank you for this episode. Yours was one of the few I continued to listen to this season. The vitriol was too much for me so I basically went underground and was very, very selective about who I listened to. When Jon approached the throne room and Drogon shook the snow off I remember thinking Drogon was a dragon hidden by snow the same way Jon had always been. The snow was shaken off as with Jon when his identity became known however it also seemed to me that might have been an indicator of how Jon's story would end, with him once again becoming a dragon hidden by snow. Another thing I was musing about was Maester Aemon's statement about a Tagaryen alone in the world was a terrible thing. I always took that to mean without the comfort and security of family but now I wonder if the tendency for fire and blood to emerge without the benefit of someone to help temper that urge was another meaning to the statement. Anyway, ty again! Well done!
i like your take here.
You and In Deep Geek are the only GoT CZcamsrs looking at season 8 and the finale as it actually is, and resisting the internet group think of 'bad writing!' and 'D&D ruined everything!' I had to stop listening to a couple-- the irrational hysteria was just too much. Refreshing to see some reasonableness on the end of GoT out there.
Actually, there are a few other CZcamsrs who were good on the final season of GoT-- Pete Pepper, WowLynchWow, and The Joffrey of Podcasts all could see the show in toto, including it's undeniable issues, without losing their minds.
Hear, hear!!!
Extreme fandom and anti-fandom (a relatively new phenomenon) are two sides of the same coin.
Azor ahype also. Hes always positive and objective.
I am sincerely glad that you could enjoy this season. There were many objectively great things about it, and the cast crew, for the most part, did fantastic work. I am glad some people out there truly enjoyed and appreciated all that hard work. For me, the writing was so terrible and the plot holes were so large, that I just couldn't appreciate anything about it; and that's depressing. I look forward to your videos about the asoiaf books. But I just can't stomach anything about the show anymore. So disappointing...
Lovely analysis, Joe. I was fairly pleased with the finale and pleased by much of the season. King Bran may work out, but Sansa did just what Sophie said she would: tear her family apart. I think Jon and Arya got the best endings because they're where they want to be, but Sansa and Bran have to rule and that causes headaches. On WotW someone thought Sansa's reign would be short and she would be overthrown. I think she'll just be very unhappy. Between what Ramsay physically did to her and her paranoia about power she won't marry. And nobody in the North is up to her standards of refined court behavior. She likes scheming so much that she'll be bored ruling. She clearly thought Arya would be there, but Arya leaves. Worse, she has probably guessed Sansa betrayed Jon's secret and indirectly touched off the Kings Landing holocaust. So SAnsa, AKA Cersei 2.0, will be isolated in her power, bored, frustrated, and unlikely to find fulfillment. It would be very GRRM-like to make her lifelong hunger for power into a curse.
uh chills, now I wanna rewatch S8, time to rip at the scab XD
At this point am almost sure that JRR Martin will go beyond of this TV show ending!
You know he said this was his idea right?
@@melanatedqueen6662 ...we will see, I do hope for that.
That was not the same girl from Dragon stone that was with her Mother and Aryia
Thoughtful!!đ
What? No nerd rage in this video? *faints* Really though, I felt similarly. I thought it was a good episode and a conclusion I was satisfied with. They didn't ruin the show and shouldn't be burned at the stake. I would've loved one or two more episodes to let things breathe, but I'm happy with what we got overall.
My nerd rage burned out years ago sadly
@@JoeMagician mine too. I don't have the energy for nerd rage. :P
@@JoeMagician
Indeed. Everyone who had read the books must have known this show was going to hit the rocks after the way they handled Dorne and Stannis in season 5.
Great video! I'm glad there's a content creator who actually enjoyed this season. It's been so depressing on CZcams lately I've been avoiding lives which I usually enjoy. Kudos to you!
One thing, I do think people will know Jaime's queen is Cersei, considering she was the real queen. I doubt Dany will even go in the histories as queen, no one recognized her officially.
There's others! Notacast liked it, as did scene of ice and fire. I imagine InDeepGeek was even handed as he always is.
@@JoeMagician I haven't heard of Notacast until this video, I'll go check him/her out. Thanks for the recommendation! InDeepGeek and Secrets of the Citadel are always fair whether their expectations are met or not đ
@@wishingfortwins Definitely recommend NotACast. An ASOIAF treasure trove
@@xajaso Thank you! Subbing all these new to me channels immediately đ
I think that the extreme haters of Game of Thrones are a very noisy minority.
Liked and subbed my new friend. Watched the whole video too :)
I love your analysis. This was one of my least favorite episodes mainly because so many unanswered questions still, and like you, I felt the cut between Danyâs death and the trial was too jarring. I agree it shouldâve been two episodes. I also was surprised Iron Islands and Dorne accepted Bran especially after the North left the 7 kingdoms.
maybe because they knew they owed their existence to the the North for their fight and sacrifice against the NK or at least that the N had earned independence
Thank you for all of your excellent analysis Matt. BTW, if you like stories with ships and dragons may I suggest The Liveship traders trilogy by Robin Hobb đ
Thank you for your energy, I too enjoyed the season despite it's very logical flaws. Your perspective is amazing and I love the way you articulate your point of view.
as tv, i loved episodes 3 and 5, but found episodes 1, 4 and 6b bor-ring. 6a (first half) was good. As GoT, i found all of them forgettable. But, i loved loved loved and will always love and remember episode 2. It was pretty much perfect in every way, although it's wasn't exciting or anything unlike episodes 3 and 5
Like you, I am satisfied with Jonâs ending. It fits his character and GOT. Many people seemed to want Aragonâs ending for Jon, but GRRM is not Tolken.
Mia P
He got Frodo's ending, which was fine.
Mia P
On reflection Jon got a much happier ending than Frodo. The sad thing about Frodo's ending was not that he had to leave The Shire (a place he had always had mixed feelings about) but that he had to leave Sam.
By contrast Jon got to leave with his buddies Ghost and Tormund.
I am still a bit confused about Jon's end. Some say he will ranger throughout his life and stick to the limitations of a Night's Watch brother. You suggest he is free ,as long as he is in the North. ...??? I choose your interpretation:)
@@theoriole8700
The show was careful not to explain what was happening so I think we can choose whatever explanation pleases us most.
I enjoyed your take on the finale and wish I could feel the same as you. But I'm just not there. I felt the writers did such an injustice to the last three episodes ... mostly to Jon. Am I glad that he ended up North of the Wall with Ghost, Tormund and the Free Folk? Absolutely! But I HATE how he got there.
Jon Snow. The hero. The leader. The brave. The true heir to the throne. Sent off without even a thank you. Not from the North and not from his siblings/cousins. They'd all be dead of not for Jon. It just felt like such a betrayal, especially from the Stark kids. All I could think of in that moment was that Ned Stark must be turning in his grave, seeing that his kids learned NOTHING about sacrifice in the end. It just left a really bad taste in my mouth. I want to believe that GRRM will tell the story differently. So now I will await his last 2 books ....
Thanks for a great review đâïžâșïž
Very welcome :) sorry it took so long
Bran conveniently forgot to mention that the last Three-Eyed Raven lived for 1000 years.
Yeahhhhh
@@JoeMagician
I for one welcome our new hive - minded overlords.
@@orphanedhanyou
It might be rather like a Dalai Lama's
Didn't *really* like the episode, but I liked the themes and the main beats they were going for. It's a shame, watching your "Killing of a Ranger" videos, I was hopeful for some big revelations and twists, but the season was fast tracked to the end
Well yeah itâs not perfectly done with the characters thatâs a bit of a letdown with this season 8
Be honest it Felt like another show but worse of a copy of a game of thrones > tragic way
There will always be a place for The Nights Watch. There will always be work, of some sort, to be done.
Love your comments â€ïž but not a fan of your background music...a bit distracting đ
Hmm I see. It did seem a bit loud. Thank you for the feedback.
@@JoeMagician
It's also very repetitive, which doesn't help.
Great take on the finale. R+L=J forced a choice of identities. People need to wise up and stop the tantrums
Here's what I don't get. If Sansa wasn't going to participate in the "7 Kingdoms" what the hell gave her the right to shun Edmure when he stepped up to speak on his own behalf?
Like hey lady if you want to be queen of your own country you don't get a vote in ours. Just sayin....
The only thing that bothered me with the Sansa story, is that she is now alone up there. No siblings to counsel her, no Brienne to protect her....
Bran will always be watching. Is that a Good thing?
But no companionship....Might be a lonely life for Sansa.
@@118debi
She will need to marry eventually to perpetuate the Stark line. Gendry would be a good candidate provided Arya gives her blessing
@@orphanedhanyou
If I were Sansa I would be inclined to suspect that Arya would suddenly return at an inconvenient moment. Probably Sweetrobin would be a better choice though cousin marriage isn't ideal.
How terrible that Dany in the end was corrupted by game of thrones and not one true ally surrounded her. Even Jon is questionable in the final moment that his view of duty and love was obscured by his ego.
his ego?
Great work, Joe
This was great!! Thank you for your level headed dialogue!! Too much trash talking going on about the best entertainment.... ever.
I agree that the negative passions can be over the top. However, I sincerely feel the show dumped out way too much of the story leaving it jerky and inconsistent in its telling. Characters were cut off or changed ,too, making it hard to follow their motivations. This is not expectations disappointment. This is reaction to the needless damage done to the best tv show i have ever watched.
I hated the last 2 episodes! This season made S7 look awesome! U can't make her into a lunatic in 2EP!
I made a video on that, where I showed how this has been building for her since season 1 and getting more pronounced in season 6 and 7. Specifically where Tyrion has to talk her out of burning Yunkai to the ground. With those in mind, had no problem with believing she was capable of what she did in the last two episodes.
She's been ranting about burning cities to the ground since season 2!
i took it that Sansa has everything, but is still the scarred, fucked-up rape survivor too (not much counselling etc in GoT)
I cant believe you like this ending. Obviously this episode and season was rushed. Jon character was assassinated.
The ending was horrible
Completely ruined GOT
You should watch the documentary on HBO, the whole production/actors are pretty clueless about the bad writing and gave it everything they had.
I would have been super - happy if Dany had burned Tyrion. He was so tiresome this episode.
I think the idea that Drogon melting the Iron Throne was actually Dany breaking the wheel is neat. I had always imagined that she would destroy that ugly chair.
dany did not break the wheel ... she is the wheel Jon did.. by killing her (fire and blood heritage) and rejecting his "right" to rule..thus leaving an opening for change if the others want it.
@@theoriole8700
Your take isn't wrong but I prefer mine.
@@orphanedhanyou
It's very sad. I never thought she would reign but I hoped she might get the kind of happy ending Jon did, returning to Essos to find the House with the Red Door.
@@alanpennie8013 not sure happy describes his ending
but the undying lands of the far north = death in Lord of the Rings! I know that's an intentional parallel by grrm/d+d, but it's not a very good one! Tolkein was a super catholic, remember
Thank You, Matt. You nailed it! Thanks for the Death of a Ranger references.
My issues with the episode are: Cersei should have died a painful death and Sansa did not deserve to be queen. Cersei caused so much pain and suffering for her to die comforted by Jaime sticks in my craw. Sansa being rewarded for betraying Jon, again-not my favorite moment
All things considered, I thought it was good. An 8 out of 10.
Thought you was talking about the book.
See you when you get back to book stuff.
Corpse is singular, not plural. Corp is not a word lol
Season 8 was terribly written.
You are giving this episode far too much credit, the butcher job done by D and D was atrocious
Sansa turned into little finger she cared about nothing or no one except getting the north she used Jon again with no regards for his life Bran is just evil and as you would say he pushed a lot of pebbles to become king he new he would be king why do you think I traveled all this way and no one else asking to independent made absolutely no sense also Drogon or grey worm not killing Jon made no sense