The Original Leaked Ending: A Song of Ice and Fire! - George R.R. Martin's Original Trilogy!
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2021
- Welcome back for another Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire video. In this video, I will be discussing, "The Original A Song of Ice and Fire Leaked Ending," from George R.R. Martin's 3 page outline. This outline details some of the things that would have happened in The Winds of Winter, and what will eventually be, A Dream of Spring. A lot has changed since George first started writing this story, back in 1993. Many of the smaller details never came to fruition, however, most of the major plot points have stayed the same.
Images and video clips from Game of Thrones are property of Warner Bros and HBO, used here under fair use.
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Outro Music: John DelVento
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“He may have lost all interest in finishing it”…..No kidding
I agree after the ending of season 8 he may have lost interest in finishing the book's but I would've thought he'd like to finish the book's with all that was ment to be in his word's
@@cherylbaxter8986 not even sure he even gives a crap anymore.
Of course he CARES.... why do you think he is so quiet... he is writing right now ✍️
I believe he lost interest because he knows regardless of how he end the story some of his fans will be disappointed.
That’s been obvious for a while. He has been procrastinating by getting involved in so many different projects.
I read the "red wedding" pages in the middle of the night, in the 90's and couldn't believe what had just happened! I went back several times and re-read in disbelief! It was great to read the book long before anyone knew what was going to happen. The people that were later cast into the roles really matched the images front my minds eye. Great Job Dan!
Wish I had a chance to read things for the first time without already knowing everything
@@xxstexx7450 The things that happened were just so shocking and unanticipated! I really thought Ned would be rescued, or atleast freed by Varys too. I think books will ALWAYS have an edge over other media because you hear the characters thoughts and how they perceive (or don't perceive) situations and danger. Ned NEVER once thought he'd be executed and I believed him...until...well. Rob was TERRIFIED of failure, weakness or indecisiveness in front of his bannermen even more than going to war. Getting lost in the dark twisted corridors of minds like Ramsey and Theon was chilling.
@@xxstexx7450 It can still happen for you! There's a new show on Epix called "Chapelwaite" so far, there's only been two episodes. It's based on Stephen King's book, "Salem's Lot", which btw, is Kings personal favorite out of all his works! Read the book, it's not terribly long, and it's great, then watch the series! Love to you and yours!
Yes me too . the casting was great to what I envisioned
Rob is pretty different imo
I know incest is common in Got but I can’t believe people actually ship Jon and Arya…their relationship as the outcast brother and sister is endearing as it already is. The incest would probably make me change my view on the characters.
That's kinda the idea.
Also Arya is a kıd.
@@r.s.asangarb5345 yeah I had the same thought but maybe Martin would have changed her age especially since it was a love triangle with Tyrion
She was supposed to be a little older though, more closer in age to Jon, than she ended up being. 🤷🏻♀️😒 But it definitely would have been different. lol
Wasn’t Jon younger in the books too? Like 14 when the story begins ? 🤔
I believe in the books Jon and Aria have a different relationship as opposed to the show
Interesting that Jon Snow, the son of Regar Targaryen, would fall in love with his supposed half sister Arya who looks the most like Lyanna.
Thank God it didn't go that way. He already has mommy issues as is...
maybe freud was right
I wonder what GRRMs childhood was like
In the books Jon Snow was not the son of Rhaegar Targaryen…!
@@ewaldrempel9924 Really now? So who are his parents then?
Wow… so telling:
“As you know, I don’t outline my novels. I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it.” -George RR Martin 1993
Which totally explains his continuing delays in winds of winter… after seeing this, I hope Winds become a little longer and concludes the series. I doubt he will have the fortitude to see it through a 7th book.
I have the same opinion as you. I would prefer the saga to end with a dream of spring, which is the seventh part. Seven gods, seven kingdoms and seven books of the saga. Nevertheless, I believe that there are still some chances of publishing the winds of winter and this part of the martin should end the series, because I doubt that he would be able to write another book as great as the winds of winter. Another solution is to write down the winds of winter and only write summaries of the chapters he would write in his dream of spring and give those to another talented writer to write entire chapters based on those summaries.
He absolutely will not simply cannot conclude the series in 1 books. It'll take nothing short of a miracle to conclude it in just two books.
He's to busy making prequel shows,video games to write the damn book 😭
Lady Stoneheart resurrecting jon would be great!
Aesthetic af
Stoneheart will resurrect half man/half wolf Rob Stark, who will then resurrect John through wolf dreams…
Please and thank you
I think Mel will resurrect him by sacrificing Shireen.
Very interesting to see how that resurrected heart feels towards Jon
What Game of thrones left out but ASOIAF empathized was how much ayra was like lyanna. Shes even described in the books as baring a uncanny resemblance to lyanna. Strong and stunningly beautiful !
Also the relationship between her and Gendry. Robert & Lyanna vibes??
Arya wasn't pretty at least in the books
@@greysama___2417 lady Smallwood in the third book called her pretty
@@greysama___2417 Clearly you didnt read them ! When ayra showed up at the house of black & white , When the man came to the door he states why such a beautiful girl would come there .
@@greysama___2417 she was pretty bt she didn't work on it . She had a naturally pretty face bt too scrawny for her age and always being covered in dirt didn't help
GRRM- **Creates Masterpiece**
D&D- *Hold My Starbucks..*
It's far from a masterpiece, he didn't even finish it. And the last 2 books were bad.
Give me some good D&D TV series ...
@@hapablap2088 a dance of dragons was amazing what do you mean
@@andrealyass8018
No it was bad.
@@hapablap2088 Well that's you opinion, Im curious as to what you didnt like about it? Tyrion in Essos, Jamie in the Riverlands, and the Northern narratives were all so great, the book only left me yearning for more especially with Davos's plot.
We will NEVER get an ending.....ever. This is the closest we'll ever get
That's probably why I revisit this outline so much. It's the next best thing lol.
I disagree
@@dekarmeryalmar8774 NEVER EVER
@@FreedumbFighter29 i mean just put yourself in his position
Its very hard to connect all those plots going on with a satisfying conclusion and good dialogue.
I also think he started working for WoW after season 4
@@dekarmeryalmar8774 I really don’t like people who find every way possible to justify writers for not doing their job
The winds of winter was on his plans since 1993 and we are close to 2022 already. 29 years George!!!
He abandoned you years ago, get over it. the moment he decided to put away hundrets of pages he worked and and invent random character called Griff. After that he felt ashamed and envious of TV Show (it was before 8 season) so he lost all interest.
@@potencjalnypracownik2966 Griff was foreshadowed in Clash of Kings. He was always supposed to fight Daenerys.
Whaaaaaat 😂😂 my my... In that span some people must have alteady graduated from college, got married and had kids who are watching GOTs now
Try 1991. That's when he started writing the series.
Well if that upsets you don't forget Winds of Winter is not even the last book. Don't expect there to ever be a conclusion to the story. 😑
I will never get over the red wedding.
Same :(
"The North Remembers".......
Nor will I! And my beloved Ned 🥲
ya i know. i wish that was toned down a lot.
@@acimagination7982 just finished the chapter, George was an asshole for that one.
He didn't include Sansa as one of the 5 to make it to the end. He did have her going a completely different direction though.
The romance between John and Arya would be to compare/contrast it with Jamie and Circe’s incestuous relationship. It’s a common literary device, which Martin frequently uses himself, to have two similar-but-different storylines occurring at the same time.
Yeah I kinda wish he went with it. People seem to be against Jon and Arya but fine with Jon/Dany
@@bobbob-cd9yl makes sense in the show to me because of the age,
@@shahzadansar8704 and they weren’t raised as siblings and were complete strangers when they first met
And Arya was 9 at the beginning of the books. Yeesh.
@@shahzadansar8704 you have to read between the lines. ah ha This would not have been Jon and Arya like they were on the show, they would been close in age in this. Seems like you have to spell it for some people.
"I find if I know where a book is going I lose all interest in writing it."
*He watched season 8"
Yh that explains why the last two books haven't been released yet.
Sorry but that is super wrong Martin-fanboizm. He lost interes several seasons before 8th. He was on the fence before his last book was published, but after it was it was no-return-zone type of thing.
I'd like to see Lady Stoneheart give her gift to Jon like Beric did for her, and possibly speak with him in the spiritual realm before she passes.
Ooooo I love this!!!
DAMN I LOVE THAT IDEA ☝🏼😯💡
George, if you’re watching….
Her last action making her peace with the boy she hated his whole life and bringing back the heir named by Robb.
Seems legit
There is no spiritual realm in ASOIAF as far as we know, and there’s no way GRRM would confirm it one way or the other
This was a stepping stone to reach to the current ideas. He expanded it with dozens of additional characters. And it was the best decision. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen characters like Stannis, Brienne and Euron Greyjoy. Not to mention Jamie's fascinating story.
The expansion of characters is what makes this story special and feel more alive
and Cercei !!!
I like how GRRM has this habit of "splitting" characters into multiple ones to adjust his narrative. Like how the original Jaime was split into Jaime and Cercei (taking over the schemer role), then Ramsey was created taking over the whole burning of Winterfell business, then Tattered Prince got split with the exile and redemption arc.
Same with the original Arya being split into three characters - Arya from the novels with her misadventures in the Riverlands, Ygrette taking over the Jon Snow romance and duty vs love dilemma, and Meera Reed for traveling with Bran (although, his love for Meera here is not exactly brotherly).
It's also interesting how Tywin wasn't mentioned in this at all.
Sounds like Tyrion wasn't originally mean to be an imp. This was interesting and luckily many of the plots didn't happen the way George first planned them.
Dunno. According to George, Tyrion came about because of an 80's book with Lisa Tuttle called Windhaven.
"So while we were writing the books we thought about a dwarf who would have been the Lord of one of the islands. He had to be the ugliest person in the world but the most intelligent too. I kept that idea in my mind and it reappeared to me when I was starting to write Game of Thrones. So ... That's Tyrion Lannister."
tyrion falling for a skinny child made him more of a dwarf in my head tbh
I love this type of content from your channel. The Prediction style videos, the alternative theories style, the news & history style… they’re all great, but I think alternative theories style is my favorite
I am surprised that Cersei is never mentioned in this, since she became one of the centerpieces of the story right after Ned died. I guess she would not feel as relevant if Sansa actually had become queen, ruling beside Joffrey
@Andreth exactly. Essentialy GRRM took elements from this Sansa and Jaime to create Cersei
@Andreth yeah i feel young griff will take her tv show role.
@@DoubleO88 My prediction has sort of been that Young Griff will take Kings Landing, forcing Cersei to flee, seemingly removing her from the game. Then Dany + Jon, believing young griff to be Aegon and needing his help, will convince Young Griff to help them fight off the others in the north, and as a result he'll send his army north and leave Kings landing undefended. Dany also probably gets betrothed to Young Griff at this point. While they are battling and suffering heavy losses in the north, Cersei makes an marriage pact with Euron to sack kings landing and take it back. (Hence the ironborn alliance in the show). Consequently the final battle in Kings Landing will be whats left of the northern alliance vs. Euron + Cersei.
@@67tedward that's a great idea. But you left out little finger who is ruling 3 kingdoms now
@@bait5257 And Stannis?who is still in the game for the North. And he will be the first to be summoned from Jon for the fight with the others.
I kind of like the idea of Arya falling into a love triangle with Jon and Tyrion, the only person that ever treated her kindly throughout childhood being a bastard brother who later you find is adopted, and a powerful lord from a rival house, although ugly and stunted, being the first man outside of her family to see beauty in her, and her, being the put down lady who has been called ugly by others from birth, being the First Lady of noble blood that wouldn’t immediately turn her nose in his presence sets up a Romeo and Juliet story even more tragic than the original.
Honestly, I really wanna read this. Hoping upon a lucky star that someone wrote fanfic on this haha.
It was originally a trilogy, but now is at least seven volumes....
That if we're lucky, we'll get six out of seven. This is going to end up being in that pantheon of "could have been," productions.
Quite possibly, unfortunately...
We are not lucky, we aren't getting anything. Listen to interviews with Martin from years ago. You can tell. Best you can get is side-story of no meaning. Like "Rhyanna's cat ate a mouse".
I find it so cute how people still think we are getting more books and an ending
We will never get WOW it seems. Fcking joke
OH MY ..... i want Dany to survive 🥰
As a writer myself, I'm always interested in hearing how other writers' minds work. I'd like to read the whole letter! It's interesting to hear how the storyline diverged from his outline and from the final books, but it was even more interesting to hear that five characters were meant to survive! I wonder if he'll write a different outcome for Dany.
Been a fan and subscriber to your videos for a long time. Thanks for still putting out great content and filling the GoT hole in all of our lives!
Thank you for always watching and commenting.
GRRM always did well as a writer but has only known true wealth since the TV show. It must be very difficult to decide to spend what may be your final few years slaving away on a project you no longer love when you have millions just sitting in the bank, waiting to be enjoyed. I don't expect him to finish the books. I doubt I would.
He’s a writer though.
Why wouldn’t you spend your final years doing something you like doing?
This. He doesn't need to finish the books anymore... If he ever does finish them it will be purely out of passion, but, as it is evident, it hasn't been his top priority for a long time, and as you said, while would you spend months locked up trying to catch up with a writing a book that may earn you maybe half a million $ more... When you could spend those months having every comfort and pleasure you can have with the millions you already earned...
@@oscarbautista4156 lmao you think the next game of thrones book would only earn maybe half a million? Try tens of millions
He has written other books set pre-GoT since A Dance With Dragons, so your reasoning doesn't hold water.
@@rdh-daliasjb3796 I've read them and I seriously doubt any of them were anywhere near as stressful and grueling as trying to drag all of ASOIAF's plot-threads together, which is what he has to do in Winds and ADOS.
Great video. Gives us an insight into how great minds like George’s think. Nothing wrong with changing good story lines to better ones!
Wow. Things definitely would've been juicier had Sansa given birth to Joffrey's child lol...and I can't even fathom a romance between Arya and Jon...though it'd be interesting for sure!!! It's crazy to hear what they left out of the show.
I can think of a romance between arya and jon and probably it would be my fav ship too bt tyrion and arya😑 impossible
@@jonstark153 incest ships are the best
@@bakthihapuarachchi3447 if r+l=j is true then there's no question of incest.
@@jonstark153 it would still be incest lol but more acceptable by Westerosi standards
@@jonstark153 they would still be cousins
Thanks for this- it was totally new to me! What I like about it is it shows GRRM is not rigid. That leaves open the possibility that he will surprise everyone with totally different endings from the show. Maybe changing things is just what he needs to do in order to get back to work in earnest.
He will never let you read anything again. No books will be published and all his notes will be burned if they didn't already. How do you still belive in him?
Thank you. I never saw this before or heard you talk about it ❤️
you did a wonderful job with this video! thanks for the info. I found it completely fascinating
Loved it, thanks...had knowledge about some of these but you just made them solid. Is a good day!!!
Tyrion sounds more like littlefinger than himself
I saw an interview with Martin long ago and he said Arya was supposed to represent his real-life wife and he was Jon Snow, hence the original romance theme between them. I guess Arya is filled with qualities he sees in his real-life wife and/or qualities that she admires. As for Martin, he said as a kid he used to walk by run down homes and imagine that the kid in the home was really someone 'grande' except that no one was aware of it. He used to imagine that maybe he was really adopted and he was supposed to be someone important, but no one knew. Hence, Jon Snow. So I can see why he originally created the romance between Arya and Jon. But like you, I'm glad he didn't stick with that. There's enough incest in the story as it is.
@@asimhussain8716 exactly I dont understand why we need our characters having 'pure relations' in a book. It could also be cool if Jon/Arya were to meet with Jaimie and kind of contrast their relation. As they are very alike Jaimie and Cersei were kindred souls, and Jon and Arya were both outcasts who only had one another
@@asimhussain8716 to be fair cousin marriage was not taboo for most human history both Darwin and Einstein married there cousins
It never said that their love story would have been consumated. And I think they would have been closer in age.
No one freaks out over tywin and Joanna. They were 1st cousins. She was the daughter of tytos's younger brother. Also clearly most of the people freaking out are show only. I always thought it was interesting how they always thought of each other. Like in the books they are thinking of each ALOT. and I think Arya was one Jon's last thoughts before he died.
They’re cousins
Wow!! I so loved that and all very interesting!!! Thank you for sharing. Saw all the movies but I think you do a great job!!!!
Amazing video, surprised I hadnt watched it earlier. Thanks for making this, it contains valuable information. I am still trying to come to grips with the disaster (I thought) the ending two seasons were for Game of Thrones. Even your intro with Little Finger made me remember how dang good he was in the early seasons.
im so inlove with this world and i love all the backstories, actual stories that differ from the show, makes a much more interesting watch everytime
I remember your first video on his outline. It was superb, just like this one. Thank you so much, TT.
You're always so kind. Thank you!
@@TalkingThrones I was a very early subscriber and have enjoyed and respected every video you've put out. I like the way your brain thinks!
Plus I feel like we've been "friends" for many years!
Absolutely love 💘 your videos! So happy to see another
Wow!! I so loved that and all very interesting!!! Thank you for sharing. Saw all the movies but I think you do a great job!!!! Have a good one and peace to you.
Hey man, I missed your videos like crazy. I know you have been uploading, but I, like many people I believe, lost interest in GoT after the disaster that was season 8. It used to be my favorite show and generally my favorite story ever and I was gutted by the way it was treated by D&D. Anyway, today is the first time I watch a GoT video after 2 years and it brought me a lot of different feels. Definitely missed your videos and I love what you do for this community. Still gutted that I am not able to rewatch what used to be my favorite show of all time.
I already knew these "alternate endings" still I watched and enjoyed because I thing the evolution of a story sometimes is as interesting as the story itself. And sometimes it is nice retuning to things you know and get a different take on them.
Great vid, gives us an idea of what was going through GRRMs head back in the day. Crazy to think of how it’s evolved into what it is
Thanks. I was not aware of this and I've been watching you for a while, since at least season 6 of GoT.
I thought this was some addition ending found. This has existed on the internet for a long time.
He said that at the beginning of the video. Said it was for the new fans that were probably not around from the beginning.
Thanks for this video.
I think the story just got more and more complex and now GRRM doesn‘t know how to bring everything together.
There are so many possibilities to finish the story but none of them is satisfying enough for him.
I really like your channel. This was a definite WOW.
I hadn't seen one of these before, great video!
Thanks for sharing this piece of fantasy history! So many possibilities. Makes me sad this saga is ( most likely) going to unfinished. Hope I’m wrong…but it’s been a decade.
I love this. How crazy would it have been if he followed his original outline of a song of Ice and Fire. I still think the book and show would have been just as successful.
Love that you shared this with us.
wow. its amazing to hear that he had the idea of game of thrones in mind all the way in 1993. I was in elementary school at the time. before a time where my mind would mature and love more fantasy stuff and character depth. amazing.
So now I’m expecting a deadly jealousy between Tyrion and Jon, maybe over Dani.
I dont see Dany dying here because if GRRM put Daenerys in his 5 key characters.
Tyrion could really end up becoming the high lord of Castle Rock.
Daenerys on Dragonstone
Jon and Arya becoming husband and wife. Since they are cousins its alright.
Then Bran might be leaving to embrace his being the three eyed raven.
@@bangotmyko9411 mad queen is gonna happen, its already been himted at and foreshadowed in the books but since its from danys pov and shes a queen no one will question her and it doesnt seem like shes.going off the deep end and believes shes doing the right thing, her true transformation is just gonna be done alot better than "my friend was killed in front of me and wildling guy gives jon credit for riding a dragon but not me :, ("
The story has already differed greatly from this outline in many ways whicj is probaly why its taking so long to write, hes diverged so far from the original outline he has to create new ends to new plotlines as they come.
@@roryjohnston6567 but I’m curious if that’s what will really happen because I wonder when she meets jon in the books will she still know that the throne isn’t important and the real war will be the others
not happening, both might think her beautiful but no romance would be able to bloom with her and either of them, she prefers sexually experienced, mature, dangerous men, her first was such and she loved him and later she had dario who had those same qualities as drogo, and all the next possible guys will have to match drogo....and jon and tyrion are no match at all, a pretty green immature boy and an emotionally and physically damaged dwarf are just really not her type
@@ACinemafanatic F/Aegon has a better chance of coming across Jon first than Dany does considering hes already in Westeros, unless Jorah for some reason convinces Dany and them to go to his home of bear island, if that were to happen its conceivable theyd pass the wall or come close enough to it that crossing paths with jon could happen, regardless Dany will go Mad queen at some point, shes already showing tendencies(the wine merchants daughter), the main difference is i seriously doubt arya will kill the night king, honestly going by the prophecy i really thought it had to be Jaime, in regards to nissa nissa who epse beside jaime and cercei even have a love like that? (Not Jon and Dany, id be suprised if they meet sooner than the end of TWOW, so basically 1 book to develop that kond of a love between them) Not too mention kingslayer, his redemption arc could be likened to tempering a sword like the prophecy as well, either that or theres heavy losses against the white walkers and a contract or agreement(prolly an existing one long forgotten since the dawn age) will be reached not unlike craster was doing or some other terms. The starks as "THE main" characters is pretty much a show only device, the books obviously are a POV of numerous characters lives with each character more or less revieving equal billing, the starks being the star is too obvious for GRRM, a character like Jaime, an honorable man whos done dishonorable things, whos been caught in impossible situations where he forced to make choices with no clear right answer but yet honor still lives in him, makes more sense being "the chosen hero" than boy scout jon snow in THIS story, but i digress.
Calm down everyone. Remember jon is way younger in the books. It,s still weird,but less than if it was in the show.
To be honest, I don’t care who kill who or who love who, I just want the book and the beautiful & decent ending.
According to this he always planned to have Dany invade Westeros *before* Winter comes. This reveals the writers of the show really knew nothing.
What if Catelyn realizes that jon is the some of the only family she has left and actually ends up showing emotion as lady stoneheart
You worded that like something will happen. Like a book coming out. No book is coming out. So how about "Would be funny if this unfinished story went in the direction of C. realizing ..."
Whoa! Sansa was originally going to bear Joffrey a son??? Gawd I would love to read his original story as well. Comparing them would be so much fun
At this point he could just sell all his manuscripts to the readers and we can piece together all the stories and characters we want to a book, that would be a cool and epic way to end this series.
Its good that you made this video, it may be the only ending of the books we will ever have.
Nice video thank you keep this quality.
What Martin was thinking at the end is simple: he loves writing love triangles. In his works, they never end well. People are denied the love they desire or as he often says "the human heart in conflict with itself." It is a reflection of his own experiences in life and love. That explanation out of the way, I agree I am glad that many character dynamics changed. The idea of Jon with either Arya or Sansa is peculiar. I don't know why there was so much incest originally planned beyond the fact that it happened in real history (as with the Hapsburgs among others).
They're cousins, to be fair. Only slightly incestous.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 I assume you are referring to the once-planned Jon-Arya or Jon-Sansa pairings. While yes their actual blood connection is "only cousins", that isn't how the characters see each other. To Jon, Arya is his sister; Sansa is his sister; the same is true with Arya and Sansa. They all perceived each other as siblings, and yet the plan was for them to be romantically attracted to each other. That is on top of Jaime and Cersei's incest, the alleged Loras/Margery incest, and the insane inbreeding of the Targaryan dynasty. That is a lot of incest in a single book series.
I mean fictionally I feel having an incestuous relationship other than Jaimie and Cersei that we read from would be really intresting. Characters dont have to be pure or love does not have to make sense in the books. Certainly makes a lot more sense than Jon Falling in love with his aunt in the show after a night over. At least Jon and Arya know each other as kindred souls both growing up as exiles.
@@bobbob-cd9yl There is a term in psychology, I forget what it is called, but essentially when two kids grow up together, they have a strong aversion to forming romantic bonds together. That is why sibling pairings are so very rare. Martin's writing being so realistic implies that Jaime and Cersei were not raised together, thus that strong aversion never quite settled in for them. Jon, Sansa, and Arya were all raised together as children, and thus wouldn't want to pair with each other. I take this to imply that in the original plan, Jon would have been raised separately from his sisters/cousins (however you want to think of them). That is why in the published works the incest angle fell away. Or so I speculate, at least.
Incest is far more common than people think it is lol. I've heard so mane cases. And nowadays, doesnt even make sense to be considered amoral, if the couple arent having children, theyre doing nothing wrong.
I don't know, some of these themes interest me a little more than we got. Having Jon have to make the choice of neutrality with his family in front of him as opposed to leagues away would have made that choice even more heart wrenching. Having another interaction between him and Bran would also have been nice even if it strained their relationship to the breaking point.
There is so much possible story yet it will most likely forever stay incomplete.
absolutely interesting. nice to get a glimpse of the process.
I don’t think Jon was always supposed to be Lyanna’s son early in the process. I think he was meant to be Ashara Dayne’s son or even Lord Reed’s (i.e. Meera’s lost twin) which would have validated the relationship with Arya as they wouldn’t have been bound by blood at all.
If Jon was or is Ashara’s son, he would have still been closely related to Arya
@@theinvisiblewoman6783 Explain?
@@thejawgz6719 because his father would still be Ned or Brandon. Making him Arya’s half brother or first cousin.
@@thejawgz6719 if he is Lyanna’s son, still first cousin. If he is Ned’s bastard or true born son, still her half brother. No matter which way you slice it, Jon is Arya’s half brother or first cousin.
The Meera’s twin thing has zero support in the text. The only reason that was a show theory is because Kit Herrington and the actress who plays Meera have dark curly hair.
I will always see Dany and Drogo as the power couple hat should've been. The rest is interesting, glad you shared/thank you.
Bellatrix
Great video, thank you!
I used to set alarms for your show because of the after episode breakdowns. I’ve never before or since felt so excited for a shows next episode to drop. Wish GRRM would just get it done
I think because of who they cast as Arya, it became pretty clear that she'd never be seen as the Lyanna type beauty, and always be just a pure tomboy, to the point where she was passed off as a boy...the thought of her having 2 men squabbling over her became impossible to visualize. Nothing against Maisie, she was perfect, IM0, and I liked her character exactly as it was. But as a writer, he was probably visualizing someone that looked more like Lyanna, while still being a tomboy! Plus, when he wrote that, he had no idea it was gonna be adapted for TV, and it's easier to make anyone be seen as anything you want, on paper, since there's no particular face or personality to attach to the character!
There was never going to be a love triangle between Arya, Jon Snow, and Tyrion in the show. It's not because of who they cast as Arya. It's because it's not in the books in the first place. The love triangle thing was just George's original idea that didn't make it to the actual books.
@@hoodieandred8411 it also would've been tremendously hard to sell Jon as a hero if he has romantic feelings for a girl he grew up with believing was his sister.
@@Lord_Clarke yeah, that's probably why George changed his mind about Jon and Arya being romantic.
Arya actress was cute in the 1st season, but she pull a reverse Emma Watson when she grew up. Predict how a child actor look when they grow up is not easy.
@@wolfremus2521 both actresses look the same as they did as kids. Nothing major changes about their faces.
Winds of winter/ a Dream of spring is going to be one book...The end
I think this too. No way he's better taking this long on one book. Either that or he's doing both now so he can be finished
@@Dutch137 What would be the purpose of holding one book back?
Its called a dream of spring because you have to be asleep to believe its ever gonna be published
Awesome! Thanks for this
I love your videos
I learn so much
GRRM is a genius. This is really really difficult to do. So many characters, complex interesting characters. The unreliable narrators, storylines that start 100 miles apart, and all converge in the end. It's difficult keeping this organized.
Too bad the show gave up on the last season.
Stunning that Cersei was not in this original vision at all! Wow! But I'm so glad Arya in particular got her own amazing path.
Thanks for sharing ☺️
Great video my man
I hope he maintains the part where Sansa turns on her family. It does seem give a surprising twist on House Stark. Have her losing her wolf seem more symbolic.
She already did that in the first book, she went to Cersei with her fathers plans to have them leave before any fighting began, that’s what helped tip her off
You haven't read single book in the series have you?
Lady died in the first book.
@@kdr3619 He meant that it would make having her lose her wolf more symbolic if she betrayed her family...
I've been asking for years, almost all the guys who do the vlogs on thrones, if stonehart and Jon's snows paths cross
It is clear he initially had a HEAVILY expedited idea for Dany's arc in mind. You can see a scenario where right after the end of GoT after she comes out of the fire, she is taken to Vaes Dothrak to become one of the wives and then she makes her move there in front of EVERYONE and has total control of them all with her ever-growing dragons, then she moves quickly into her invasion of Westeros.
The overall idea was always going to be "Dany's invasion supersedes the warring factions of Westeros, then the White Walker invasion supersedes that"
You can see it clearly. Book 1 laying the groundwork, Book 2 Dany invades, Book 3 White Walkers invade.
He took "the warring for the throne", "Dany preparing for invasion" and "White Walker invasion being built up" and basically expanded all of that into several books.
Great video!
I still LOVE this series to no end. I still have not read the books, even though I have them on my book shelf. I am still waiting and hoping.
With you. I've only read the first book, but won't read the rest, because there's no point if we never get an ending.
Do yourself a favour and read them. The first book is so tightly and beautifully written. You'll be hooked.
@@tappkalina It's about the journey, the destiny will come in time.
Maybe Dani replaces Arya in the tyrion and Jon love triangle.
More likely Aegon Jon and Dany love triangle
@@bossmode3769 good point forgot about young Griff
I dont get why replacing Dany makes it better? In fact I feel it's worse Arya and Jon actually makes sense as they are then a mirror relation to Jaimie/Cersei
there is little to no posibility that dany will ever be into jon or tyrion, nor aegon for that matter, they are not her type and tyrion even says this, she is drogos widow, she is into mature, experienced, dangerous men, and these men people ship her with are just not her type at all, the show just went in that dirrection of jonxdany because it was a popular pairing among the fans, for some reasons unknown to me as the books don't hint at it 😒😒 the show threw away from the start 'wanting to bring the books to the screen' and went with 'give the fans what is accepted as stuff they want to see' (random, none plot moving sex and violence with only vaguely following the actual plot)
This is all super old stuff and I can guarantee this won’t be anything how a dream of spring will be but still this is super interesting. Thanks for upload
Thank you for this video, I found it very interesting and fascinating. And I agree with a lot of your thoughts and reflections. I find the books so much more interesting as they turned out to be,. I also liked much of the HBO series adaptions, as long as they followed the books. I, like so many others, was not happy about the evolvement of the story and it’s characters after that, and surely not the end. I sure do hope we will get the full story from George, it will be so interesting to see where he will take all this.
Sorry for my English... But I would like to know your opinion. Will we ever get a ASOIAF ending?
Yes... eventually.
I have a theory that when the dragon flew off with Daenerys he took her to the other red woman so she could Resurrect her
Fantastic work
Thanks!
It is interesting :D thank you for making this video V
I wonder if the first book was written with some of the Arya stuff still in his mind...big changes but still pretty intriguing another good video Dan
George has said in the past that Tyrion is his personal favourite character, which probably translates to at least a thin layer of plot armour for him.
In my head, Tyrion is the bastard of King Aerys making him the true heir of Westeros and he is crowned king at the end, not Bran. Bran crowned as king feels so out of sync that it curdles my stomach.
I wasn't going to watch this, but then I thought this is the closest we will ever come to an ending.
Enjoying the thoughts here. That is , to me, what good writing drives us to seek further into the story. Not to late for Jon to kindle a flame for his half sister Sansa !!!! OOOO now here comes the confrontation of Jon and Tyrion! Yeah, keep thinking. What goes to the writer's floor can be swept up into the next sag. So it goes. Great thinking and great videos.
What separates a "good" writer from a "great" one is work ethic. George has none. It's his biggest flaw as a writer.
It is not working ethic. It is betrayal of his readers. He laughs in some interviews about how he uses his fan from Norway as a data base. Yet he decided he won't give funs anything more at certain point and all his work materials are to be burned so no one can finish it. And he said he has already hunderts of unpublished pages that weren't used in LAST book. Those will be burned.
I’m no expert, just a recent CZcams portal expeditioner, but the guy’s been a successful writer for 50 years. No work ethic?
I am certain had the show not started when it did, the books would have been finished years ago.
The amount of time, energy and focus that working on the show, not to mention all the press, traveling, interviews to go along with it, must have been tremendous. Throw in to the fact that he was in his 60’s while doing it.
To read some of the spoiled child like comments about the bed time story they want to be told when they want it told not being complete is mind boggling.
If I were him I’d publish a one page book as the ending…then a giant comet smashed into the planet, and everyone dies. Now piss off you cry babies. The end. 🤣
Thank the stars he changed his mind about an Arya, Jon Snow, and Tyrion Lanister love triangle.
I mean thanks for removing the tyrion part but I am in favour of Jon/Arya
@@bobbob-cd9yl i disagree with you because i am just thinking kit and maissie together
@@shahzadansar8704 whats wrong wit Kit and Maisie together? Their both adults
I’m sure it’s like a sibling relationship so yes it is werd
@@bobbob-cd9yl If the story had Jon/Arya show would have casted old actress for Arya, but who knows what Martin would do in last 2 books.
I'm gonna dig into the books soon as I've watched the show I will say I really enjoyed it and season 8 which I know a lot of people hated but I'm excited to see how much different the world is in the books
I liked video, thanks! Hoping the book ending is better
Does this mean (if we go by that old outline) that it's likely most if not any troubles with Dany are going to be dealt with before the others invade, also considering that he's of the opinion that ice is revenge and fire is passion? Or has he changed such a big decision since then? Waddaya think?
If Winds doesn't come out in 2022/2023 , bad bad signal
I would forget about Dream anyways
He could be doing what he did for the last two books. There was so much content that he essentially split them into two books. Which is why you don't get chapters of every character in each separate book and why the stories overlap.
@@Aintgotnohowwatchamacallit George is resisting that notion... But is highly unlikely that he can deliver Winds in 1 single volume (1500/1600 pages) He really has a very complicated picture.
You forget that Jon, Arya and Tyrion would have had the same age so it's not strange. I actually think it could have worked with half brother and sister being in love, the classic forbidden love story. I like the idea of Tyrion being proactive in war like when he burns Winterfell. The part that excited me the most was Jaime because we have never seen prime Jaime laying down the law except for when he attacked Ned. So the idea of Season one Jaime slicing his way to the Throne would have been epic to watch and terrifying cause he was unbeatable. But in our story Jaime was never ambitous. So seeing a skilled Jaime but also wanting power is something I would not want to cross. Also having Sansa take that path would have been interesting to watch, siding with the Lannisters because of her child(children?). Cersei sort of took elements from this Sansa and from this Jaime.