F-16C Viper vs FA-18C Hornet: BVR Battle & Dogfight | DCS
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- Today's Beyond Visual Range Missile battle is between two US giants from the 1990's; the F-16C Block 50 vs the F/A-18C Hornet Lot 20. Weapons up until early 2000's are allowed.
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0:00 Overview
2:18 ROUND 1 F-16C vs FA-18C
10:26 ROUND 2 FA-18C vs F-16C
18:35 ROUND 3 F-16C vs FA-18C
28:36 ROUND 4 FA-18C vs F-16C
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#GRDogfight #DCSDogfight #FA18C #Hornet #F16C #Viper #FightingFalcon #GR #DCSWorld #DCS #Dogfight #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators - Hry
Cap I noticed you had this problem with the Hornet last time with the JF-17 battle, when you turn away, you need to slew your radar cursor over in the general area of your radar target and press TDC depress to make the radar cover that area of the screen. When you turned away the radar turned with you and thats why you lost track. You can see the B-Sweep line not staying with your targets at 12:20
I was going to make the same comment. Also, if Cap used TWS he could switch the radar from Manual to Auto to keep the tracks in the radar's FOV automatically so it would work more like the F-16's temporarily.
You can press the right middle DDI button to set to auto, which will let the radar track the target.
The hornets advantage here lies in its situational awareness. The HMD shows all datalink contacts right where they are on your screen, an when you are within 20 miles you can enter a Helmet Aquisition mode and get your AMRAAM out fast. Especially within 10 miles does this shine
You can lock and launch in TWS without your adversary getting a missile warning until the missile goes pitbull.@@Vakari
Thanks. Problem is I never actually learnt the F-18 for Air to Air properly, and that probably shows here. Sadly it will give a bias to the battle :(
I like how you were using the screens in the cockpit to show what was going on. That really helps me learn how to read everything better. I've already watched your tutorial videos for multiple planes, multiple times. This real time pointing out stuff, though... freaking awesome!
I LOVE the 'Grim Reapers' videos, because...the COMMS between them!!! The are letting their teammates know WTF is going on!!!! Teamwork is KEY!!!!!
LUV these! Thanks Cap and GR :)
Damn fine flying by all hands. I kind of figured the F-16 had this one in the bag for this type of fight, but you guys all really did some nice work with the Bugs as well!!
You guys should do a bracket style sudden death fight to see what fighter type takes all. Each fighter type could be a team of 3. Would be cool. I'm calling the f15e to take all, great radar and you can even lock a 22 at good distance.
Thanks guys!
Great job Cap! This mission was some serious Sierra Hotel!
Bog starts in RWS+LTWS -> radar doesn't slew automatically by default. There's a MAN/AUTO button on the side of the screen, can't remember if it appears on LTWS at all.
3:36 "Tosser Shot in"
I see Cap chose a new callsign. Quite fitting, really.
Simba died do to a rabbit strike in that second round!😂
They are dangerous.
those pesky rabbits
Pretty sure that rabbit had a Manpad
The advantage the F/A-18 has is the number of AIM-120s it can carry; 10. Alot of drag but with the centerline tank you can get good range. It allows you to keep the bad guy defensive while the 16 needs to be a bit more selective with its usual 4x2
A good 16 pilot will know their stick is faster and will have to defend latter than you
Would love a mod that allows the F16 to carry double missles on each pylon
@@lat78610 ok. That doesn’t mean that the F/A-18 carrying 6 more AMRAAMS than an F-16 isn’t an advantage. Plus, the difference in speed capability is irrelevant. I can send Aim 120s down range long before you do b/c I have them to waste. So the F-16 is going to be going defensive long before. Not sure how much “faster” an F-16 is than an F/a-18 in a fight anyway. your maneuvering AND both lack the fuel to get anywhere above Mach 1.3 with the external stores for any length of time. F-16 May get to 1.3 -1.4 or so when he lets his missiles go (without tanks) unless he has to go defensive. while I usually end up around 1.1-1.2 in the f/a-18. Not sure how that difference in speed matters.
I fly both the F-16 and F-18 and find the F-16 better in BVR…but the F/A-18s I face usually aren’t carrying 10 aim-120s and most players tend to hold their fire until they are within 10-15 miles;Instead of sending one down range early to make the guy go defensive
Awesome fight. The sheer power of the Viper is so very impressive!
16:30 Simba, that is one expensive lawn mower you got there!
nah its a throw away bog
A very entertaining video indeed
Great job
cant wait for the holidays so I can stop using work as an excuse not to fly...Thanks GR
Hello guys, absolutely love your channel. idea could you do a US Civil War, 1990 carrier group versus 2000 carrier group ?
Cool
Don't forget to set the 18 radar track to auto to keep the focus on the target. Otherwise it will maintain your selected direction and lose lock.
Thanks
My f16c battle recordings are always corrupted for some reason. For example, the replay will show me missing all my missiles and then end with no kills even though I killed the enemy planes. This doesn't happen with the f15c, f18, su27, mig29, and su33. Can anyone help?
Hey! I love your videos, I’m glad that I stumbled on your cool channel (:
I have gotten an idea, inspired by the recent Iranien drone incident and also my old memory where a lot of Chinese fishing boats tried to stay in the Japanese territorial waters to insist that some Japanese islands belong to China.
What if there is a fictional situation where a US Ticonderoga or Arleigh Burk class ship (or a carrier group) gets swarmed by rogue Chinese boats and drones near the Sasebo US Naval base, and the US ship has to fight them off and speed to the base? …I’ll say US ship was doing some training offshore.
So, the US ship whether eliminate all the ships and drones, or get to the base before it gets disabled…
I’m a Japanese guy so I kind of came up with a scenario where it is situated around Japan lol
Anyway, love your videos, you’re very cool
12:35 May i ask what was happening at 12:35 ? Radar on memory mode? I dont know anything about this stuff, just enjoying some good content. But i am interested.
I know y’all done ww2 vs modern but id like to see ww1 vs modern or ww2 vs even more modern with full bvr to merge combat. I’m sure of the outcome but it’d still be interesting. Also how do we play with y’all?
Whats up with with the A-firm? Why not say roger? 25:38 Simba pulls a roger out. I used that so much for the Army it was a life safer. I got into touble maybe a couple times and Roger Sgt Major, Roger 1st Sgt, Roger Sgt, really helped. Unless for pilots that gets mixed with something?
Roger is acknowledgement, Affirm is short for affirmative which is yes.
I can't speak for ground-pounders on either side of the Atlantic but international aircrew conventions have distinctly different meanings for Roger and Affirm / Affirmative. Roger means "I heard and understood what you said" no more and no less than that. Whereas "Affirm" is a "yes" answer to a yes/no question
@harryspeakup8452 thank you. I believe roger can still mean both those things but I understand it and losing something in translation is obvisouly not good for pilots and I'm guessing that's a rule for a reason. Roger was used for yes, affirmative, good copy and f_ck you in the infantry.
nice
Do an F-15C Eagle vs F-15EX: BVR Battle. Nice video by the way.
there actually isn't much of a change unless your asking for a 1980's C model vs the 2020's EX. but that would be the same as a F-16 80's model vs a 2020's radar technology and missile availability is the only real difference.
@@simba1113 Oh, ok
Hey Cap, any chance of getting back into ARMA? I'm running out of old videos to watch the second time around! 🙂
Hi Steve. Literally just had the Arma guys bugging me to join. Not at the moment sadly. It's just not worth creating tension with wife over it at moment. Maybe a little ways down the line.
Understood - it's really not! 😅@@grimreapers
hot rods vs missile trucks lol
Well done GR! F-16 vs F-15???
Could you do a vs. J-10 at some point? I could see the Viper, Hornet, and the "Jeff" versus the J-10.
Sadly Simba is refusing to fly any non-core game planes and J-10 is non-core game. This puts me in a very difficult situation.
I talked to the developer of the J-10 Mod. and there were some files associated with the C version that were not appropriate and thus the C version is no longer available. there is a copy recirculating but it has files that are not fair use files. out of respect to the developer we won't be using it until the J-10 mod crew is able to make their own files again. also the J-10C mod alters core game missiles. the mods version of the SD-10 has a really long battery life.
What is a chainsaw tactic?Never heard that before.
Could you do the same battle now without AWACS, and also use the ALQ-184 ECM on the F-16C and see how well the aircrafts sensors and electronic warfare systems fair against each other in BVR? I would suspect it would give the F-16C a massive advantage.
FA18 is just inadequate. They had to build the super to make it useable.
can MALDs be used in BVR combat?
I will investigate!
Hey Cap, any chance of a Christmas canyon run 2023?
sounds interesting
PL-17 is ready to sim
Thats one big missile!
Hey Cap, if the F-16 radar is so much better than the F-18, why hasn't the F-18 radar been upgraded to the F-16 radar? Or are they designed for a different missions?
It's not better, Cap just isn't very proficient with the Hornet radar apparently.
@@user-hz4np8gk2gBlock 50 F16 does have a better radar than the legacy hornet. They should've used SuperHornets. It'd be more fair
Hornet actually has better radar but F-16 radar just much easier to use in DCS.
Technically speaking in terms of radar capabilites F15>JF17>F18C>F16C in regards to the modules we have in the simulator. It all comes down to pilot proficiency and most DCS pilots are more familiar with the F16C than other modules.
Viper is A wicked Bee!!!! WOW!!! ;)
In the context of 9:30, why is the US' newest addition, the F-35, so slow? I feel like they could've done better, and this kinda limits not only its A2A but also A2G range.
max range shots are a very low probability shot. Getting to those airspeeds requires a lot a gas to be consumed thus shortening your on station combat time. If you watch SATAL videos ore even the thurstmaster sponsored 2v2 tournament. you'll see an example of how long range shots hardly land. and a lot of fights are fought at the 5-20 mile range lower down and the jets are not screaming along at high mach speeds. the F-35 is a key example of exploiting this fight. hard to see out side of 15-20 miles and more thank likely by the time you would see a 35 on radar you probably already have a missile that it shot on you from 35-40 miles raining down on you. so no need to do a mach 2 max distance for the missile shot when you can get into a higher PK range with out being detected. cheers mate thanks for watching.
Do a Super Hornet vs Vipers and a Super Eagle vs Vipers.
If you want this to be fair then the hornet should only carry 6 a/a missiles and 7k lbs of internal fuel and the f-16 should carry a jammer pod.
What does “Twiz” mean?
It's TWS which stands for "Track While Scan" it's a type of mode for the radar. Normal radar tracking alerts your target that they're being illuminated (tracked). TWS however does not alert them to it, to them they just get a ping on their RWR (radar warning receiver) showing that there is some other radar scanning. TWS uses fast radar scanning and mathematical algorithms to track the target without actually tracking it in the truest sense. It's good enough to guide a missile to the target, but it's not as good as traditional tracking. The benefit, of course, is that your enemy is unaware you are in fact tracking "and maybe guiding a missile" onto them.
The APG-73 might make it easier for the bug
Agreed.
Surely it's all down to radars ,missiles and how fast you can run away
That is 100% correct. Also don't forget Ease Of Use. Makes soooo much difference.
And competency of the user
You say that as if the JF17 doesn't have a 20% more powerful radar than the F16C and SD10's are noticeably more lethal than Aim120c's. If anything this series has been a demonstration of how important pilot proficiency is.
@@mrbfox1775 I agree. I am an incompetent F-18 user. I can do most things ok but the F-18 controls are just that much different that it causes me muscle memory problems. everything feels just slightly backwards enough to make it harder than I feel it should be. it is for me one of the more frustrating aircraft to fly due to the just enough differences. But my hats off to those bog drivers that have it down. I have flown with some really good ones out there and they can really make that jet dance and sing. I still feel the F-16 is the better platform. it's only really when you are slow and close range that the number of F-18 missiles help. I now people like to talk about how much nose authority the F-18 has but when it still has all those missiles and tanks on it. it really looses all that magic. Cheers thanks for watching.
@@92HazelMocha The SD-10's in game from over a year ago were out performing known public data. Since ED took over final say on all munitions the current SD-10 performs more like the AIM120B. which according to public data seems more accurate. still a good missile. but its not the killer it was made out to be almost 2 years ago. cheers thanks for watching
Good fight, but as an F-18 fan, it hurts me to see you never actually spammed the murder loadout to fill the skies with missiles. 😢
now f-15E vs f-16 please
F/A-18 is a multi-role fighter where the F-16 is more of an air superiority fighter. You can plainly see the differences in the two roles. F/A-18 can do many things well but when its up against a plane where its specialty is shooting down other planes, it just doesn't have a chance.
But if the f18 can get the f16 slow in a dogfight then the f18 has a pretty good chance at Beating the f16
the F-16 is a multirole fighter. don't let DCS's limited version of the aircraft make you think differently.
@@simba1113 I agree that the F-16 can be used as a multi-role fighter, however that is not what GD originally designed it to do. It was designed to be a fast lightweight dog fighter that can shoot down enemy fighters and bombers. And is one of the best at that role. Ground attack was a secondary role that came later with improvements to models and blocks.
@@Tritonraaf I agree in the right situation the F/A-18 would have a chance at defeating an F-16. You would just have to get the F-16 in that situation, which is not always easy.
@@joedokes9753The F15 was always better as an air superiority fighter. The F16 may be better in the merge, but that's arguably less important. The F16's capabilities as a multi-role aircraft are what have kept it relevant and in service.
Try it against mig 29s and vipers👍
Speed kills!
I want to see F-18's take on Mig-31...
Bring on the F15 to fight the F16
That hornet rwr is in such a terrible spot
Hmm curious, if those F16s are block 50s, an even match would be them vs super hornet F18Es
Kinematically the super hornet wouldn’t fair much better the viper would still be faster and get the better 1st launch
My understanding is that Hornet and Super Hornet are equal kinematically and in this battle the missiles would have to be the same also.
@@vulgar_potato4992 kinematically the F16 still has the edge, but the radar sweet and track fidelity is more even, so less guaranteed who gets first launch
@@vulgar_potato4992The Super Hornet's radar is notably larger, more powerful and an AESA; in BVR that's what matters
@@grimreapers it's part of why Simba got pissed and started dropping F bombs. The legacy radar suite is not the AESA suite the super hornets or block 50 posess. Thus the constant dropping of locks and tracks that led to him having...a moment
DCS noob here why call the FA18 bug?
F/A-18 Hornet (Hornet is name of an insect, insects are commonly called bugs) Cap often calls F/A-18's 'bogs' (a play on 'bug') because F/A-18's are relatively slow
@@jr_walker7850 Oh ok i thought it might be something like that.
By sheer aviation capabilities, total cost, and ease of use, you just can't beat the Viper.. unless you're using 4.5+ generation fighters.
F-16's have been upgraded to 4.5 gen. in my humble opinion you still can't beat it dollar for return.
PEOPLE'S CHAMP!
…and crashed into the mountain, question mark?
@@dexlab7539 😎the F-18 is one of my angry jets. its flight control computer that limits it to 7.5g's always gets me. at medium speeds you can get the jet to react and turn like an f-16 but when you get fast it won't give you that insinuations G, max deflection. and AOA so thats on me for thinking I could pull up more than the jet allowed. as I was die'ing in that scene my brain did ask if I should pull the paddle. but my brain also said you have a lot of stores still on the wings and they will snap. so my last "virtual thoughts were to paddle or not to paddle this is the question"
First !
urrg. Ya beat me.
Ugh