Spain Goes To War With UK Over Gibraltar In 1980, Who Wins? (WarGames 165) | DCS
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
- We look at a fictional scenario in 1980 where Spain goes to war with UK over Gibraltar. The British launch a huge carrier task force to take on the Spanish Air Force. Who will win?
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0:00 Intro
1:00 Geography
1:37 Unit Overview
4:35 Unit Details
9:01 Predictions
11:26 Battle
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#WarGames #GRWarGames #Spain #UK #Britain #AircraftCarrier #Harrier #Mirage #F4 #Phantom #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators - Hry
When you guys make a video about TU-160? Russian "Bone"
czcams.com/video/liBnF3-BF_4/video.html
World most beautiful bomber! ❤🛩
Matrix is so painfully British! Makes me proud to be his countryman. Now if only he'd write his memiors...
I'd buy that.
I believe he is a real pilot (retired) If he is, it shows. He has that SA and 3rd eye that seems to see more than most. And I promise you he drinks tea, not coffee!
@@valuedhumanoid6574ex Jag pilot
@@valuedhumanoid6574 I prefer coffee actually. Or beer. Lukewarm and flat, served in a dimple jug.
@@grmatrix6358 LOL I stand corrected sir!
Dead God...
- Phantom FG.1s were retired in 1978 from FAA service.
- HMS Hermes lost her catapult and cables in the early 70's, it never operated Phantoms and couldn't.
- HMS Hermes carrying 28 Phantoms ! She could barely carry 28 Sea Harriers, when operating as a classic carrier she had a full Fleet Air Defence squadron of 12 planes, a reduced Strike squadron of 7 planes, and a dozen helicopters and Gannet for EAW, COD, S&R and ASW. There's no way she could fit 28 Phantoms, at best half of that.
- In 1980 HMS Hermes was starting her refit to operate Harriers.
- In a 80's scenario, what you want is HMS Ark Royal, she was retired in 1979, scraped in 1980, she could barely avoid it in your scenario but she operated the last FAA Phantom squadron and did operate two full squadrons (Phantoms and similarly sized Buccaneers).
You leave daddy out of this!
Well this was supposed to be a "fun" and "Fictional" representation of what may happened....... until you spoiled the fun.....
@@mrfrisky6501 Dude, half the fun of these things is the research and finding ways to make things fit or exploit the gaps in research, not to play make believe like a bloody 5-year-old.
@ethancampbell2422 as I said mate.... the fun police have arrived 🤣
My father served on board HMS Hermes (an Engineering Officer for radar and radio) in the late 60's when she operated Sea Vixens and Buccaneers etc. I remember him saying the only time he saw a Phantom land on Hermes was a touch and go. He said it was a bit of an event and he was on the island watching it happen. Apparently they all knew Hermes was too small to operate the Phantom at that time. Now, if the later refit from a 'Commando Carrier' had been with bigger cats and traps re-installed instead of the ramp?, who knows
I believe the reason the RN lost the Phantoms was because defence cuts basically removed the carriers they could fly from.
And the Harrier flew from smaller decked carriers with the ski ramp.
In 1966 the government defense review cancelled the planned replacements (CVA-01 class) for the Audacious-class fleet carriers Ark Royal & Eagle. And it was decided to phase out fixed wing naval aircraft all together. When Ark Royal left service in 1978 the Royal Navy no longer had any fixed wing aircraft at sea.
The replacement Invincible class (officially 'through deck cruisers', not carriers) were intended (by the governnment) to be purely helicopter carriers for anti-submarine warfare (the Royal Navy's primary role in the Cold War). When work began on the Invincibles in the early-'70s the Harrier had already entered service as a close-support ground attack aircraft with the RAF and the Royal Navy quietly adjusted the Invincible's design just in case the in-development naval variant - the Sea Harrier - 'worked out'.
@@ibex485 yep like most MOD projects it was bodged together and later made to appear like it was a cohesive plan, similar to building a full size carrier but without catapults and then realising later it would have been a good idea (but too late because you've bought the aircraft...).
@@tomriley5790 When the politicians are that useless and obstructive, refusing to do anything the sensible way and following their own half-baked short-sighted fantasy ideology & self-interest... bodging is the only way.
I guess the British are so good at bodging because they've had so much practice, thanks to so many hopeless governments.
@@tomriley5790not to late at all do some research my friend..the two new carriers were built so they could be relatively easy to convert to cats.
I’m sure Gibraltar had some rapier batteries in place. Further there were at least two battalions of jocks there (my dad was one of them) so manpads were a thing as well. Plus at that time there would have been several RN Warships which would have had anti air capabilities. Also the Spanish had at least 1 AA missile battery in the mountains above Tarifa. RAF pilots told me they always got painted when they took off.
Might add a little more spice if you choose to recreate this one.
It would have taken your dad 12 hours to sober up...
Hopefully those Manpads were not the terrible Blowpipes
@@togawearer2799that’s officer times.
HMS invincible was the first ship to go into service with type 1022L RADAR - she could have tracked and directed the entire air battle giving the British a decisive advantage. Depending on the month of 1980 HMS Exeter would have brought another 1022 to the fight too. But given the calm Spanish conditions the earlier batch one type 42s would have been very useful too if the Spanish aircraft strayed away from land.
12 rapiers were deployed to Gibraltar in the 80s after the US attacked Gadhafi. only 11 could be mounted on a suitable stable area. They were from 32bty 16 Regt RA.
Simba can make an aircraft do anything, except go where it's supposed to go.
It's been copyrighted. Known as ' A Simba Thing ©' in professional circles !
lol
So the truth to that one is. when the F!EE came out we had to re-bind all of the controls. I have them bound for the F1EE and it was during this video I discovered I had not rebound the CE controls because well I prefer to phatic hitting a tanker when I fly it so I just almost never fly the CE anymore. so that was just me flying trying to figure out what French to English words for bindings I needed lol. half way through the video I start getting some kills after get my life together hahaha. thanks for watching..
@@douglasarthur2673 If I don't know where I am going then the enemy doesn't know where im going and can't set a trap for me. lol cheers thanks for watching.
Hearing matrix's voice again was great. Seems like his been gone a lot lately.
He's been IN the Matrix that's why.
@@jacobtrapp3772 hahaha glad he finally to the red pill.
@@jacobtrapp3772 Matrix also does a lot of things behind the scenes for GR. He is and awesome individual to work with and we all enjoy when he's available for our shenanigans.
@@simba1113 How very kind of you to say so. Life tends to intervene occasionally, so there are times when I can't contribute as much as I would wish.
@@grmatrix6358Less life…more GR 😂
As Rover200 said, Hermes never operated Phantom. Only carrier that did was Ark Royal which was being cut up in 1980. Eagle had been capable of operating them as well but only did for trials. Hermes had her catapults, arresters etc removed to operate as a dual roled commando and ASW carrier, initially only operating Sea Kings and Wessex. Sad to say Invincible was in service in ‘79, Illustrious tail end of ‘82 as a rush job (can’t imagine why….). In 1980 we also had Bulwark which was pretty much Hermes bis (but built earlier). Finally had HMS Tiger armed with 6in guns and 4 SeaKings with the ugliest hangar ever splatted onto any ship, ever.
Iirc Cap has given the British more Sea Harriers than they began the 1982 war with. The navy would have loved to sail south with 40 Sea Harriers and an extra deck to operate them from (even if they had to leave 28 Phantoms behind).
Although Invincible was commissioned in 1980, the Sea Harrier didn't become operational aboard her (then Hermes) until 1981.
So the real version of this scenario would be half the Spanish air force against some Sea Kings, old Wessexes and the Lynxes from the escorting frigates & destroyers. Could any of those helis operate air-to-air missiles? I don't think so.
Good thing this was just a bit of fun.
Roger, well we def would have lost then with even fewer aircraft :(
@@grimreapers now for a real situation that nearly took place what about the Turkish invasion of Cyprus? At that time somehow (cough splutter) there were Ark Royal with 12 Phantoms, 14 Buccs, the AEW Gannets etc, either Hermes or Bulwark with embarked commando, one if the LPDs plus tons of ither ships all exercising in the Med. The RAF at the time hadn’t yet divested itself of all the transport aircraft save its 66 Herks, so there were still the 10 Belfasts, 40 ish Argosies, the 23 Brittannias etc, plus 16 Para Brigade. In Cyprus the RAF just happened to have a wing of Vulcans, a Lightning squadron and one of the Blooddhound SAM (that huge missile with the ramjets). In Malta there were a single sqdn of Mk7 Canberras, one of PR9 Canberras and a few of the then very new Nimrods. I think the Turks had mainly Super Sabres, Sabres and things like that…..just wondered…..
I cannot wait for this and this is what I have been waiting for!!!! Love these kinds of fights!!! Thank You guy's!!!! Appreciate all your hardwork!!!
You can request war games cap does read the comments so it is worth it
@@thegoldeneagle9890 Oh I know. I do sometimes but I just Email them to him. Thanks sorry on the really late response.
I was gonna say, FG1 did have PD as some people has said and cortana made the most logical point which you have to keep in mind, if they were going to war they would have gotten more gear before heading out like in the falklands. Probably would have gotten more aim9Ls and likewise more Skyflashes for the phantoms.
Also, the british phantoms did have the rolls royce speys which have a bugger tonne more power but meant it couldn't turn for shit. All it was really good for was intercepting
What a return by MATRIX 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻 He's obviously been saving that performance up. Outstanding !!!
Enjoying the "what if" series. Keep 'em coming.
Hello.
British phantoms used the spey engine and they were more powerful. However because of the expanded fuselage they had a slower top speed but a higher acceleration. This was probably because we have shorter runways in the uk. Plus it improved climb rate and low speed handling.
Hmm, interesting insights you share.
Kortana and Matrix in a video again? Brilliant
It's always a good time when those two are involved.
@@simba1113 and of course, the people’s champ.
Yup, whoohoo 🎉
"This guy's in a world of... Penis."
- Super Cap
Leader of Grim Reapers
2023
erm
It is now written in law!
Absolute best series on CZcams, thank you Cap you glorious bastard!
lols
Such a great video Cap.
For full realism HMS Hermes never carried F-4s, and the deck was too short, and the FAA Phantoms had all gone by 1978 anyway. This game really needs a Bucc, the you could have done a full HMS Ark Royal airwing.
thx
Absolutely right it needs the Buccaneer! That plane did some very exciting stuff in service and war games with the RAF too. Accounts from pilots who took part in war games of how they managed to outfox the US and sneak in undetected to make their attacks.
Video/wargame idea - Could Grim Reapers recreate the Bucc's original intended mission - attacking warships at sea (Sverdlov-class cruiser or similar) by approching at super low level and loft bombing with airburst nuclear bombs - using the assets already in DCS?
It would be interesting to see which of the available aircraft is best suited to the role, and maybe a nice skill test.
Rolls royce engines were larger and more powerful which required alteration to the fuselage and the nozzles beng pointed slightly downward which was quite distinct. Great video, keep up the great content!
If humans can just respawn ad infinitum then wouldn't it be fairer if they replaced an AI drone one for one?
Illustrious wasn’t commissioned until late 1982 post Falklands War.
Not a subject I expected , great job people
The Sea Harriers could only have 2 Sidewinders and would probably have fuel tanks, that's the loadouts they used in Falklands. (Later the Harrier could use 4 Sidewinders)
10:21 Kortana!!❤ Let's see how she fares today.
18:11 ah, no. Not so well.
With that silken voice and those even silkier skills......Kortana is the Goddess of the Skies !
Vulcans were still in service
With Tactical Nuclear bombs!
@@LondonSteveLee I was thinking a bit more like the port Stanley runway, it would be silly to use nukes in Europe as it would end us all eventually.
The bombing of Port Stanley airport is the most costly and pointless series of bombing raids the British have ever undertaken! The RAF desperately trying to pretend they were relevant in this conflict - and then claiming victory afterwards! @@sbjchef
If they included Vulcan's it would be a British win instantly, Spanish wouldn't be able to lock on to them
@@Ha-young_is_Just_Too_Fine The Vulcans had good RADAR jamming capabilities but didn't usually carry flares - they were vulnerable to IR missiles so if a Spanish plane could get within 5K of a Vulcan it was vulnerable.
I'm both Spanish and British, so it's been heartbreaking seeing my jets from both sides go down :))))
Guess you lost either way mate 😂
Same here, with maternal side relatives from La Linea de la Concepción and Málaga and dad's side from Portsmouth (home of the RN) this video really feels "local" on both sides.
For a split second my eyes only went to Spain goes to war. With Europe in the state it’s in and all the wars we seem to want start or be involved in. It’s become all to easy jump to that. I enjoy the vids.
Hi Cap, this suggestion would be a pain to set up if you choose to do it but it's worth a shout as it would be a lot of fun to watch.
I wonder if we could have an unrealistic scenario where Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands and destroyed the Sky Sabre site as well as the typhoons on station there. Awaiting an invasion of Gibraltar Spain send their carrier group down to try and take out several assets from the massive reinforcements of Britain's Carrier group. Argentina only have limited F16s left which can help the Spaniards with defending their Anti-Ship harriers.
The goal of the Spanish is to use their future naval strike missiles to take out as many of the following British assets as possible:
- 1 Queen Elizabeth Class Carrier
- 4 Type 26 Frigates (With spear 5 asm)
- 4 Type 45 Destroyers
The Spaniards also have adapted a few of their Harriers to somehow launch their legacy harpoon missiles as part of their strike against the British. I would like to see how a futuristic British CSG could defend against a buffed Spanish and Argentinian attack off the coast of the falklands islands.
This could be some massive simulation if done so I appreciate it's not a very viable suggestion. If someone had any predictions for down below I would love to hear.
We're kick there ass. Simple.
Thanks
Due the Spanish f18 are the ones with the antiship role that would be escorted by Typhoons.
Also most of the spanish navy is in Rota, that is few kilometers far away from Gibraltar. And has apart from the Spanish carrier between 2-3 Aegis destroyers and i think all frigates are there. The rest of the destroyers are in the north and the submarines in Cartagena
The Phantom and Crusader were my father's two favorite aircraft to build models of.
Kortana - Welcome back…you’ve been missed 😍
The FG.1 did have one of the first PD AN/APG-59 Radar and the Skyflash was equipped on the FG.1 and gave the RN a look down shoot down capability.
thx
Oh the remark about the F4 not having an pulse doppler radar, they most certainly did, the three modes on it,, you had pulse PD and mapping, I was an MCS techie at Raf Leuchars working on the F4k's ( fg1's) and the F4M ( FGR2) at RAF Wildenrath in Germany, both models also carried the SUU gun (20mm rotary cannon) on the centerline, The difference between the sparrow and flash mainly was the flash had better anti jam , plus could maneuver straight off the rails instead of flying straight for a few seconds
did we still have buccanners then? because those would leave a mark
The narration is hilarious 😂😂😂
Another fun video. But I’m now very scared of Cortina!
I love the smashy, smashy boom boom!!!
Who doesn't?
Was the decision to omit the Spanish carrier and it's AV-8S Matadors intentional? While maybe not what you initially think of as a naval aviation powerhouse, Spain has actually operated at least one carrier since the 20s, I believe continuously. Would have been Dedalo in 1980. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_aircraft_carrier_D%C3%A9dalo
I'll be honest I didn't even think about the Spanish Navy. Air Force seemed enough of a challenge.
The Sea Harrier mark 1 only had 2 Sidewinder mounts and no flares except for one improvised load deployed by the air brake.
In a way I prefer these Cold War scenarios to the ultra-modern ones, because there's no "Sit 100+ miles away and spam high accuracy missiles at targets". In these lower tech scenarios we get to see the skill of the human players a bit more.
Agreed - today’s tech is more of a video game imo
Cool. You should model what if the Turbot War of 1995 between Canada and Spain turned hot.
FG1 phantoms where retired just as the skyflash was introduced in 1978 when the carrier was retired. Skyflash had a much better seeker than the UK sparrows
I love these types of "What If" scenarios, please do more if it's not to much of a hassle. Maybe a version where the countries surrounding the panama canal shut it down, bringing USN into conflict against different countries in that region. If modern is too one sided play with era's ie Vietnam era USN vs these nations etc.
It's really hard inverting north and south, east and west, and imagining borders, all the meantime it literally says CHILE on the map... it's screwing with my brain. Any chance you could get more maps besides Syria, Cyprus, and Chile? I mean what kind of game is this, it only has 3 maps! Any chance we can contribute to map creation? Any way you can import your own non-game maps?
Just looking at a Phantom and a Harrier together made me think of the Autobots. Maybe you should do the Aerialbots vs the Seekers.
Cap, HMS Hermes had her catapults, arrester wires and 3D radar removed in in 1972 when she was in dry dock during her conversion to a helicopter landing ship. She later had another small conversion for anti submarine operations in 1980. She was not capable of fast jet ops after 1972 and only got the Harrier ski ramp just prior to the Falklands conflict.
Roger thanks. Never mind.
7:37 At the start of the Falklands Conflict, the RN had only 19 AIM-9L available to the task force about to sail south. Additional missiles were "acquired" from the NATO stores at RAF Leuchars, but the missile had never even been fitted or launched from a Sea Harrier. 100 missiles were flown to Ascension by the US, while a hastily arranged weapons testing firing and acceptance was conducted at RAF Valley, as it was assumed it would just be a formality given that the SHAR could use AIM-9G. During the loading of the missiles on to a SHAR it was found that the AIM-9L didn't fit on the rails under the wings, due to the larger canards. An enterprising CPO decided that he had to make them fit anyway, so he filed the canards down to make them fit onto the rails. Its reckoned to have been the cheapest weapons modification ever carried out!
How can you possibly know this stuff? Amazing!
@@grimreapers I'm ex- RN. You hear about these things when talking with oppos who were involved. There's other stories about how a 'clean' Harrier can climb to 30,000 ft quicker than a clean F-4, or how effective the Blue Vixen RADAR fitted to the SHAR was that it was able to detect contacts that the E-3 AWACS couldn't over Bosnia, or how RN Type 42s deployed for the 1st Gulf War were detecting F-117 stealth fighters on their 1022 RADAR :)
Cortana has such. Beautiful radio voice... So did I in Afghanistan... We could have made sweet music together.... Good video cap! Great fight!
Would be interesting to see this battle today.
Love these! Would love to see iran vs iraq, turkey vs greece. A modern Dolittle raid vs jsdf.
Fun scenario, I would like to add if Spain attacked the UK then Portugal would be obliged by the Treaty of 1373 (yes, signed in the XIV century!) to defend its ally and attack Spain.
The Portuguese AF got 44 A-7P Corsair II in 1981 so about 20 of them could attack Spanish AF bases and help the Brits to win yet another war against our common foe! :)
Rowland White’s book Harrier 809 talks about the procurement of the 9L and some sat comms equipment that went missing from Fort Bragg.
Sufficed to say Reagan was publicly and privately neutral during the Falklands as he was getting pressure from Latin American groups.
It was sympathetic US officers and a few US harrier exchange officers who were robbed of going to the war that tested their “neutrality”
Spot on Kortana evaluation.
I have legit started saying "Hello valued viewers" just randomly throughout the day...
LOL - I say “hope you are all doing wonderfully well” myself
Fascinating scenario. Would Portugal, seeing as they're Britain's oldest ally offer their airspace and other resources for UK use? Bit like Chile in 82. Morocco's possible attitude makes perfect sense. An East to West attack would be possible from the Med? Not likely but possible? The French have form for supplying Britain's enemies with latest gen missiles. Love 80s stuff.
Regarding the lack of Phantoms in the Falklands - they didn't fit on the Hermes, they were too heavy and would only work on the older HMS Ark Royal which was decommissioned in 1979 and so not available for the Falklands (or for this scenario). I don't think HMS Invincible would have been available as it only commissioned in July 1980, with Illustrious and Ark coming much later.
Thanks
HMS Ark Royal (the non ski jump one) was the only carrier able to carry phantoms but was de commissioned in 1979
Cap do you guys have access to the Avro Faulken ? The delta wing bomber of the Royal Navy. Would love to see it in a video if possible.
Can’t wait to see when we potentially have the new 6th gen fighters in this, like the tempest in all its British sexiness! I mean the rolls Royce engines, those wings and engine exhausts, god it’s enough to make a man cry
They actually did, sort of. During the Falklands war Spain started moving troops south in small numbers, in reaction to this 3 tribal class frigates
were moved to active from reserve and a contingent of marines was readied for deployment. Gibraltar its self was reinforced, with 2 additional Jaguar aircraft.
Hermes did not carry Phantom’s only Ark Royal did. Illustrious was rushed into service in 1982 for the Falkland’s war was still being built in 1980. Hermes was being refitted in 1980 to get the ski jump I believe
The British didn't have ANY AIM-9Ls in 1980 and they would have been using Skyflash as medium range missiles.
Before I watch, I can tell who exactly would win: The defense contractors.
Banks first, then them 😂
Getting yer refits of HMS Hermes mixed up, 80s Hermes was a Commando then an ASW carrier, 1973 her catapults and arresters were taken off. At the time of yer Op she was a helicopter only carrier. Refitted again in 1980 with a Harrier ramp. Didn’t have Phantoms after 1973. The Spey engines were bigger and thirstier, and needed to be more powerful because the Hermes catapults were so small 😂
If only they could have hung it out for a couple more hours then it was siesta time.
I’m a War Thunder player and the devs must model missiles wrong or something, as Radar missiles (particularly AIM-7 and likewise) are far superior to IR guided missiles such as AIM-9G/J/L,R-60 and likewise at killing aircraft. Maybe flares and chaff are modelled poorly or it’s Radars or just missile flare susceptibility? I really don’t know but what I do know is that the Harrier is a goddamn good looking plane
War thunder is notoriously more "arcade" than sim.. so I'd trust the performance on DCS a WHOLE lot more.
@@LiamTucker
Yeah, that’s pretty much exactly what I thought
Sea Harrier didn't have any flares or chaff until a system was gerry-rigged during the Falklands.
Matrix: the King's champ
he is a treasure of the crown for sure.
But then in this sim the RAF would annihilate the other half of the Spanish airforce from the North. Cold War RAF didn’t mess around, loads of fighters, loads of strike aircraft and strategic bombers. Not to mention the RAF could use its aircraft based in the U.K. and even the German based aircraft.
And surely the RN would always conduct the air battle when possible within the AA air envelope of Type 42 destroyers.
Or just lob a Polaris at Madrid. 😂
Absolutely, but for the scope of these what if's the conflict has to be reduced to what is possible to create in a DCS mission. This is not about real what if scenarios, but about what DCS is capable of simulate.
Yes yes mate😂😂😂😂😂😂
The engagement would have ended in a draw rather than a victory. The RAF would have suffered a lot against the Spanish air defenses and air force.
In any case there is no sense in the confrontation because Spain by that time already had one foot inside NATO
Raf did have spay engine in the f4, but they also did at one point brought a few second hand American planes and as they started differently, caused alot of problems of aquipment needed to start American jets lol.
Getting to know you guys now after binge watching........... you are all AWESOME !
Welcome!
What you are simulating is the retention of HMS Eagle which was in better shape than Ark Royal and could have lasted until 1980 operating Phantoms after a refit.
Always fun videos but to limited. I can imagine the Spanish airbases would have been softened up long before a naval task force was in range. With inflight refuelling Buccaners and / or Vulcans could of struck Spain from the UK mainland or Akrotiri and I suspect F4s would of flown CAP from Alratori as there would still have been Lightnings in service to cover UK air defence.
1995 Turbot War going hot would be fun to see.
Just a note regarding the comment regarding the use of of the Phantom in the Falklands.
I worked with a Royal Air Force rear seater who showed me an 8mm he shot while operating in the Falklands. I remember because he kept complaining about the poor condition of the cockpit canopy. Was this possibly post war?
Yes it was post war, we had both Phantoms and Harriers based down there until may 85 when the Harriers were returned home, when RAF Mount Pleasant opened
Another one for a really fictional "What if": Can an Imperial Star Destroyer prevent the bombardment of Pearl Harbor, even if the GR help the Japanese (with 80's jets or 5GEN)?
Hi cap. If my memory dosent fail, the FG.1 used the RR Spey, because the give more acceleration, son they can take off ofthe HMS Ark royal. The withdraw of the R09 and her air group was due budget issues ( I think Polaris SSBN).
The reason was purely political after the hurt of cancelling TSR2. Spey was fitted just to have some British content in the F4 - no more no less. However low level acceleration was fantastic. Higher and faster the all-American F4 was king - the last of our F4s were American spec anyway.
thx
The tragedy of no Bucc! It would be interesting to see what "happened" on the other side of the country, with Vulcans, Canberras, Tornados, Jaguars staging out of the U.K.
However, the fact the Buccaneer is missing is a travesty!
Wonder how many in flight refuels of the Lightning it would take to get it into theatre.
We got rid of the proper carriers an F4 because the RAF convinced the defence secretary that they could escort the Navy anywhere it would operate - the Falklands soon proved that to be a lie.
The only British carriers that could operate F4s were Eagle and Ark Royal (R09) and both were scrap metal by the time of the Falklands.
My money is on Great Britain, as professionalism and training will win the day....I hope...I had a cat named pickles...
8:20 Oversimplified covered that with one joky half sentence without explaining it in his Falkland war video. It's one of he many details he puts in you never realise mean anything more than a joke. But they do. So Matrix filled a little gap for me.
Somethign like "Reagan said can you maybe stop this war from happening, Thatcher said "no" and Reagan answered with "ok do you need some weapons then"?
Did you just have yourselves a Mediterranean fight in the South Atlantic?
do the same but with HK in 97, that could be an interesting scenario
At one point the kill ratio was nearly 3:1 for the Brits, and there should have only been about 13 Spanish aircraft left. But by allowing unlimited human respawns, the Spanish still somehow had 30-ish planes dominating the airspace. There should have been no planes to re-spawn into, even with unlimited pilots. Run it without respawns and I bet the Brits win.
All this due to it been a Liverpool / Spurs game no of this when Sheff Utd and Villa played the 1st game after lockdown when keeper was 2ft in the back of the net when Hawkeye and Var all misted it and Villa stayed up by 1 point could it have been that game that gave them the point and Var should be like Rugby and you can hear the ref and see it on the stadium screen 👍
Just checked in 1980 only hermes and invinsible active (commissioned july 1980) . Illustrious not commissioned till 1982. So most likely UK would keep 1 Carrier NW of spain to protect any invasuion and 1 SW of Spain.
It seems odd that the southern tip of South America is available as a map but not the eastern Mediterranean Sea area?
Yup
shoulda said 78 , hermies went in for refit in 79 where she got the ski ramp that lasted till 81 , i agree they shoulda kept the phantoms and hermies with catapults for another 4 years ,,,,, imagine phantoms in the fawlklands ( and buccaneers for that matter ) , i can see also why in the fawlklands the uk never asked the aussies to bring hmas melbourne since we had a copy of what the argies had ,,, it would have been confusing
Would love a what if 1980's USAF vs USN( F-14 and F-18 vs F-15 and F-16)
Mark parry?! Not the coppice primary school one?!
You have made the Brits more powerful than they were. Hermes didn't have F-4's and Illustrious wasn't ready until 1982. I'm afraid you need to do it again sir.
Go Spain!!!!!
Bay of Biscay would be a mess in that scenario
British operation name "Operation Thunderegg" alternately "Operation Geode". US here, the Spey was better than the J79!!! One scenario that would be cool to see is an F-104 (low maneuverability, with a cannon) and an F-4 (kind of maneuverable, an no cannon).
Arent the drop tanks for long range patrols? No creo que un mission a la coasta va neccistar lo.
The Phantom never operated from the Hermes. It was proposed but she was judged (correctly) as to small. Also she was modified with a "ski jump" in 1980 which wouldn't have taken the Phantoms weight.
thx
Cap, you mentioned the primative SA capabilities of these aircraft, then your commentary becomes a vocal F10 for whoever gained an advantage from it.
I think Spain bought F-5's but just a few years later than this.
Edit: I think part of the the problem is strategic, the UK aircraft are basically arriving into the battle area piecemeal. This gives the Evil Spaniards the advantage of numbers, eventually at least. It would be interesting to see this one gamed some more. Speaking of which, surely some kind of early airfield strike would have happened before the Fighters went to the combat area?
The F-5A and Bs entered service in the spanish air force in 1970 so they were fully operative in 1980.. they were A, B and R models tought so no radar.. only sidewinders.. but still on level with the AV-8B.. there were 70 half B and the rest A and R models .. so i guess they could field arround 12-15 F-5s here (the problem being DCS E model has radar and better performance than the As had in the early 80s.. the Bs are still in service today with the big engines retrofitted but that upgrade was made in the late 90s)
@@sparrowlt Ooh, thanks for that. I had no idea. I did read a report on the state of their airpower in an aviation magazine back in the late 80's. Reckon I forgot most of it, but I did see F-5's.
Yo Cap please recreate the scenarios from Dogfights Season Two Episode Eighteen Dogfights of the Future!🙏👍
So, are you going to do the next video (3 hours later) when all the remaining Ejercito del Aire aircraft: Mirages loaded with Exocets, and Phantoms loaded for bear - take revenge for Trafalgar on the now relatively defenseless British fleet as it scuttles back to England?
You know that would be the next move.
Oof that sounds rather painful.