Can Sweden Defend Gotland From A HUGE Hypersonic Russian Strike & Invasion? (WarGames 173) | DCS
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- With Sweden on the verge of joining NATO, we simulate Russia making a last minute grab for Gotland in the Baltic sea. With Russia using KH-47M2 Kinzhal Hypersonic, P-800 Oniks Supersonic and Kalibr Sub-sonic missiles, as well as Mig-29KR fighters, can Sweden defend with her Gripen, Visby Corvettes and RBS-15 missiles?
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0:00 Overview
0:42 Question To Viewers
1:27 Geography
2:30 Scenario Details
8:12 Predictions
9:52 Battle
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#GRWarGames #WarGames #Sweden #Russia #Gripen #Mig29 #Kinzhal #HypersonicMissile #P800 #Oniks #AircraftCarrier #BalticFleet #GR #DCSWorld #Aviation #AviationGaming - Hry
to be honest the kuznetsov jamming up and being unable to launch it's entire airwing just adds realism
On the flip side, there is no tug hauling it around
@@matsv201 очередной клоун с фейковым буксиром
😂 most migs would be stuck in the deck's rust holes and even then, pilots are mostly on the bilge pumps on that wreck
@@3aTMeHuePa3yMaAnother Russian bot
@@3aTMeHuePa3yMa ratio
Swedens submarines enter the chat.
Those wiley swedes, never saw em coming. Wink
US carriers: Admiral.... I pray for you...I swear I saw something that day
Swedish submarines do not chat. They do not make a silound. They make other things go boom.
@@subjectc7505 In a simulation that the U.S wouldn't do in normal circumstances, why doesn't Sweden bring those subs out of the Baltic Sea?.... Oh they can't
To bad they are useless out of the Baltic sea.
i would guess:
- at least one of the gotland class subs would be patrolling around st petersberg, so sweden would probably get a farily early warning. if nothing else, finland would probably alert sweden, when a strike fleet is leaving the russian port.
- the other 2 subs would probably scramble as well, once the russian fleet is detected
- sweden would probably have at least some gripens up in the air at any given time, especially when a russian fleet leaves port
And the anti missile defense on the Gripen probobly have some type of effect, even if its unclear how good it is.
The subs can lay mines as well
Ye some time ago sweden knew that a russian Cruiser was in the baltic 20 min before it had left the port, and turns out it was going for the tiny russia, and not Gotland. So sweden knows when russia is coming.
Yes it Seems to not be that realistic, i am sry to say. Allthough the Visby corvette is a good ship, it's to small and to few.
@@danielfagerfalt4823first of all they are stealth, so how could they be targeted so easy? In realillity Russian woulden't be able to. Only when the corvetts lights up their own active radars they would be spotted but that is no, no thing. Also they have good electronic warfare systems, as very last case they shoot flares. Nothing of that happend? I cant tell how realistic this is but probably not so much.
The most unrealistic part of this simulation is that the Kuznetsov is not broken down in a dry dock.
Hell, I was going to say it would be Finland not joining in... But yeah, the Kuznetsov being in theater is more unbelievable.
@@lordAvatar I would think Finland would step in since they would be next on the list unless already taken.
I did my stint in the Swedish Army on Gotland back in 2004. Some of my platoon mates got to respond to a Gripen making an emergency landing on the southern end of the island following a bird strike. I think it landed on a public road, and took off once they had checked for any real damage.
Gripen should have water landing ability!!! I demand it. I will write SAAB.
@@bungalowjuice7225 It does, you just have to put an aircraft carrier between it and the water, like the Brazilians
The most unrealistic part of this simulation: the Kuznetsov not having a small navy’s worth of tug boats in close vicinity for when it breaks down
And a fire tender
You are getting it all wrong. Kuznetsov is providing fog of war and gives +10 to chaos terror attack to all mig-29😂
My guess is that Kuznetsov would sink all of its own accord long before it manages to reach the baltic sea without a single shot fired. Its a joke of a ship.
Sweden was neutral during WW2. After the war we had all the industries intact. Since we chose to be neutral, we realized that we needed a very strong air force, a strong navy and a strong enough army that it would cost too much to attack Sweden. In the 60s and 70s we had one of the strongest air forces in the world. That is, the Russians would not be able to attack across the Baltic Sea.
Thanks for interesting videos.
Another part of this: Being neutral meant that it was desired to not rely on imported weapons. Therefore Sweden's weapons industry (including aviation) is disproportionate compared to population.
Comparisons with Finland's defense forces drive this home. Finland fields a larger army by soldier count, but spend less. This is due to upwards of 50% of the defense budget goes to R&D, acquisition in Sweden whereas in Finland this is around 5-10% (This is an old fact and probably not true anymore).
Regarding aviation in particular, fighting aircraft were produced domestically early on, but there were also imports. I think the first afterburning serial production fighter is Swedish. Supposedly during Viggens development there was a secret deal with the US that Sweden would protect the Baltic flank of NATO in exchange for technical knowledge of (at the time) advanced avionics and aircraft modelling. (Apparently known as "Annex-37")
The expertise built around viggen carried on into gripen development it seems.
That being said, both the viggen and a/b model gripens were very dependent on the rest of Swedish air defense system. (To the point that you shouldn't enter coordinates in the viggen computer far outside Swedish territory, in DCS we have different behaviour, but theres still issues around the 0 and 100 degree lines in Lat/Long)
@@SneakyFishy yeah, we austrians cocked that up quite a bit.
Our real status was not neutral. We changed to a neutral state in 1812, after the napoleonic wars, but when germany invaded finland in 1939, we changed from neutral to non-belligerant. This enabled us to send soldiers to fight for finland in the finnish winter war as well as fight with the norwegians in norway.
@@Enharjarand delivering iron and stufff to Germany.
@@Enharjarthe Soviets and not the germans invaded Finland in 1939 (the winter war).
RBS15 MK4 turns left right in random directions when close to target to evade aa missiles and close in aa defense. Also waypointguided. Visby Corvetts are stealth ships, would not go near without Submarines. Still good fun and more of this please!
Aren't those the same ones that if they get jammed they switch from their main target to the thing thats jamming it instead? I read about it awhile ago but can't remember if it's the RBS15 or not
@@dirreeN yup
@@dirreeN That is correct. and they fly 0.5m above the water surface, they are undetectable before they cross above the horizon. at which time they're practically unstoppable with all their other unique tech features.
Yeah i remember watching a video about them, that they do some weird zig zag pattern aswell so it's way harder to hit them aswell@@lovehagglund3234
Those Russian ships would have their hands full dealing with the Swedish subs. Very quiet.
Indeed. While nuclear subs are better for long range attack roles, a modern diesel-electric sub can just turn the engine off, sit quietly almost undetectable and wait for the enemy to arrive. If I were on a Russian ship fighting Swedish subs I'd never feel safe anywhere in the Baltic.
@@jpaulc441 the sterling engines of the Gotland class is so quiet that it will likely not be heard by Russian ships until the torpedoes are in the water.
On top of that, the moment Russian intent of attack is confirmed, at least one Gotland class sub will head for each of the Russian ports in the Baltic to absolutely saturate them with sea mines.
Could you have continued this scenario? As you and some of the team said, Sweden would have reloaded their anti-ship Gripens and gone after the Russian fleet who have used most of their defensive missiles. Surely this scenario is not complete
Some small adjustments. The Swedish air bases are peace time air bases. In war time the airplanes will not be placed on peace time air bases, but spread out around straight road strips. There are around 200 of these in Sweden. If you are going to add the Russian Kuznetsov, you should add the 5 Swedish stirling subs that will take out Kuznetsov early and easily. By the way you pronounced "Ronneby" and "Uppsala" unusually well. Linköping should be pronounced with the 'ö' character as 'u' in British 'Murder'.
Lol yeah, a flawless "Uppsala" followed by the pronunciation disclaimer felt off, and Ronneby was no different. Fair enough on not attempting Lidköping though, I would've been very surprised if he'd known the "k" is pronounced "ch".
@@christiangudmundsson8390 I wonder how he pronounce the "flygraka" close to Sjöbo (or actually the village)
39:25
I like how everyone forgets about anti-submarine warfare from the Russian destroyers
@@fuke1345 " I like how everyone forgets about anti-submarine warfare from the Russian destroyers " - Tech that west had around 1960. They can't find a Swedish Stirling driven sub. Check war games 'A Swedish Stealth Submarine Sank A U.S. Aircraft Carrier'
So Russia got to use their carrier that doesnt work and Sweden didnt get to use their subs...
It’s the only way Russia has a chance
Russia has submarines as well.
stay mad
@@sirkiz1181 very true!
Greetings from Gotland. If all else fails, I have a rather sharp axe in the yard and im good with a catapult. I feel like this would have made a huge difference in the simulation and changed everything!
Dom glömde helt våra ubåtar, bland annat. Mycket dålig simulation.
LOL! My grandpa actually got a "Mora knife" during WWII in case he needed to join the army and got not weapons... it's also possible he was joking :D
These massive missile attacks are still your best types of videos! :)
And that's saying something too!
Gripen: "where we're going, we don't need runways."
There's a funny saying here from Gripen pilots: When U.S runways get bombed in half they say "oh no, we don't have a runway!"
When Swedish runways get bombed the gripen pilots say: "Perfect, now we have 2 runways." (For the extreme short take off and landings the gripen does)
Few notes after seeing the video:
- Russian "Carrier" never performed as well in real life as it did here. It maxed out at about 20 sorties a day if I remember correctly, and launching this would take about an hour. Two planes hitting each other on the deck - this part is realistic.
- Also the Tug Boat. It is always accompanied by a Tug Boat, because it beaks down all the time.
- Russian Missle defense if worse in real life than it is here. 1 vs 1 usually gets everything, but poor training caused confusion and mistakes when the attack is carried out from different directions. Look at the sinking of Moskva. They were distracted by Bayractar Drone and missed two Neptune missiles. And Neptune was considered old, obsolete and had warhead so small that NATO estimated thet they would need 5-6 of them to sink a cruiser. And in real life - 2 were enough.
- Most of experienced air craft pilots in Russia died in the Ukraine. They sent instructors to fight, and all of their night campaigns ended up in making huge craters in the middle of empty fields.
- There would be attack from the Russia's mail land as well. Mig-29 with extra fuel tanks would fly from Krolevec. (Territory that Joined Czech Republic after internet vote, but is still occupied by Russia, near Poland and Lithuania) Accompanied by Iskander missiles. Probably 50+ airplanes, mostly Su-27, Su-35S and Mig-29 accompanied by 60-80 Iskanders. Not to mention Mi-24.
- You underestimated Sweden's AA batteries. They have more of them on Gotland, and even more on mainland. (Although those didn't play any role here)
So there should be more Russian missiles and aircraft. A lot more. But a lot less skilled. Also Russia would not try to destroy runways. They would destroy AA, and send Mi-24's and paratroopers to take over airport, to establish air bridge for land forces. Like they did in last 5 wars in which they participated.
Also set them to RTB after firing, and simulate second wave attack. Most likelly in second wave there will be only few Iskanders and Kindzal missiles (they have used up most of them on Ukraine, and Russia can't manufacture them in big quantities) Some old type missiles, and older airplanes launching from Krolevec and st. Petersburg. All with additional fuel tanks and only a few missiles.
trying to contest baltic airspace against swedish meteors sounds like one of the dumbest things I can imagine for russia to participate in, gripens armed with both meteors and iris-t's would trade incredibly well against russian frames
copium material
What it's really not factoring in is brand new Estonian "Blue Spear" and Finnish "Gabriel V" long range anti-ship low altitude missiles purchased from Israel, which are already deployed and truck mounted for specifically such a scenario. They can basically close off the gulf of Finland. Look up their ranges, capabilities, accuracy and so on. Yet this video shows Russian landing and warships leaving St Petersburg, getting into cozy fighting positions literally right on the Estonian coastline, with their backs turned to Estonia. Which is hilarious. At that point those missiles could reach those ships from literally any point in Estonia. Latvia is also currently purchasing Norwegian "Naval Strike Missile" units with similar capabilities that would be well in range to strike them. Plus, all 3 Baltic States are buying HIMARS with ATACMS missile variants that have harpoon anti-naval warheads.
If some slow naval drones + Ukrainian made Neptune missiles were able to attrit some of the Black Sea Fleet(which is significantly more capable and well defended than Russia's Baltic one) and force it to be pulled back to preserve it, much more capable missiles like Blue Spear would most likely be devastating. Specially in the much smaller, more boxed in and easily visible territory of the Gulf of Finland. You can literally climb a coastal hill and see Estonia from Finland with a naked eye. That gives you an idea of what a narrow channel (in between NATO countries that are preparing for such a scenario no less) Russia would be trying to push their navy through to try and capture Gotland.
Fun idea, but as we all know. The kusnetzov would most likely set itself aflame before anything else, as well the RBS 15 Mk IV should be evading the Russian countermeasures and the Gripen E should be substantially harder to aquire.
Nonetheless, always happy to see big booms.
No, Kuznetsov wouldn't set itself aflame. You can't set on fire what's already perpetually on fire
Sweden have any good Sam's to shoot down the Kinzhals like the Patriot can?
@@willwozniak2826 Sweden has 3 Patriot batteries.
@@willwozniak2826 Sweden have flying sam battery, and have had so for like 40 years. That is missiles launched of aircraft but controlled from sea or land.
Sweden have a total land-sea-air system integration. All systems are fully integrated and sea, air and land unit can not only directly talk to each other but also use the same combat link as well as guide each other weapon. I might be wrong about this, bit i think even the submarines can link
Could also argue that the Admiral Gorshkovs should be using 3M22 on naval targets
You've forgotten about Kaliningrad, it wasn't even on the map haha. Half of this theoretical attack would be coming from Kaliningrad.
It didn't factor in a lot of things. Kaliningrad is one of them. With it's sea fleet, anti-air and aerial capabilities. But then you might as well include NATO deployments in Poland and Lithuania, NATO air mission in Estonia, the fact that even conventional Polish artillery can hit almost every airfield and anti-air TEL system in Kaliningrad from inside Poland, brand new Estonian Blue Spear and Finnish Gabriel V truck mounted long range anti-ship sea skimmer missiles attacking the Russian navy in the very narrow gulf of Finland(this video shows the Russian navy just sitting literally on the coast of Estonia, which may be great for attacking Gotland, but not realistic, because they could not only be hit by Blue Spear, but even by conventional weapon systems that would be well within range) or the fact that by the time any such conflict could take place, Latvia will be armed with Norwegian 'Naval Strike Missiles' which would also easily reach those ships and all three Baltic states will have HIMARS systems with long range ATACMS missiles equipped with harpoon anti-naval warheads (orders already placed, will arrive next year).
it seems you forget the Kaliningrad Stronghold south of Gotland. Possible attack should come from two directions. just a suggestion 😉
I spent a few days in Kaliningrad, at Baltiysk the home of the Russian Baltic fleet, as part of a visit by the Royal Navy. They had just one working warship and that was in terrible condition. All the others were rusting hulks. As a result, I have a very, very low opinion of Russian naval capabilities.
"Stronghold"
Nah, it would come from one direction which is Kaliningrad. Thir carrier would not be used in any way here.
Another great battle Cap! I can’t get enough of the smashy smashy BOOM BOOM 😊😊😊😊
I personally think that Smashy Smashy BOOM BOOM is important for all.
@@grimreapers A BOOM BOOM a day keeps me healthy, wealthy and wise….well at least wise LOL
The Gripen in DCS is underpowered, also. Sweden have a lot more CV9040's on Gotland, and you totally omitted the subs.
Submarines are ALWAYS omitted as that part of DCS is very flaky at the moment.
So you will just have to assume that going under the surface of the sea is super deadly, so no country has invented subs in these GR videos.
Aldo the kinshal isnt hypersonic, and theres nonway it can target a visby stealth corvette :)
Moskva was sunk by a single anti ship missile so i thunk the RBS15 has a pretty good chance to go through
LOL…You think Russia has no subs. Game over dude
@@dexlab7539Not in the Baltic Fleet. Well, one older type Kilo-class sub, that's probably just used for training, and more or less obsolete for combat use.
The chances of them getting more of them into the Baltic Sea undetected, are, well, zero. They'd have to navigate them through several choke points, all half the width of the English Channel, and heavily monitored by both Sweden and NATO.
Nearly all Russian subs (including all of their more modern ones) are based at ports with easy access to the Atlantic and Pacific, to avoid blockades in the event of a major war. The Kuznetsov wouldn't take part in this attack, for the same reason. Once it's in the Baltic, it wouldn't be allowed back out.
@@AttiliusRex Yea the kinshal claimed data just makes no sense.. almost like it was totally a work of fiction. SRB is the worst kind of engines, still it suppose to fly both faster and longer than any other type of missile.
Also worth saying that both the 57mm of Visby and the 40mm AA version of CV90 have preburst sheels. excelent at takeing out both crusie missiles and supersonic missiles
Cap, you forgot to include the tugboats for the Kuznetsov!
I heard that Russian Tugs now carry hypersonic
As for the Lvkv9040, they are integrated in the armored batalions and iirc, at least one Patriot unit is constantly deployed on Gotland.
Good video, enjoyable battle. After seeing the loadouts for each side, I was not surprised by the final results - especially with the AI.
Thanks!
Nice one! Thanks for the work put into this!
This is interesting, and maybe you would want to take into account Kaliningrad, the Russian exclave on the coast between Lithuania and Poland. And to answer your question, I think Sweden is prominent in much the same way the Swiss are
Yes, since they haven't got a working carrier.
Yes, iskander from kaliningrad have range to strike the swedish bases shown
I just want to say that Russia does not have 6 Gorshkov class frigates. They have 2 with a third under construction, so it would be nice to see the future representations of the Russian CSG use just 2 Gorshkovs and perhaps a Kirov, a Slava, Udaloy II, and Sovremenny for variety.
By the way there are mods out at the moment that add Udaloy II and Sovremenny to the game.
That changes the game significantly. Also, I believe that Russian SAMs are signigicantly overperofrming in DCS at the moment due to the fact that everyone's relying on simulating "stated capabilities" (in these cases, Russian propaganda). - IRL We're seeing Russian IADS and naval assets destroyed by much smaller strikes.
@@clivereid Well Russian have had quite a lot of problem with the system not sufficiently field tested. They do make a lot of fancy weapons, then when they go to war they turn it all of becasue all the systems have not been tested together.
I would say that is a big part in Western weapon R&D is so expensive and take so long time because all of it is Red&Blue tested.
There is a few more issues, the Bofors 40 and 57 used in the CV90 and the visby is not proximity fuse but computer controlled fuse. Those are far more efficient in shooting down missiles, and also works really well on super and hyper sonic missiles.
Apart from that the Meteor can be guided from 3rd source. This is highly integrated in the defense system. Meteor is a European colab. The engine is from UK, some of the launch and outer parts are from france, but the guidance and targeting system is from Sweden. That is why it was originally tested on Gripen because that was the only weapon-system that could launch it from the get go.
Can also guide a unlimited amount of missiles at one time, if i understand it correctly the R-77 have a data link limitation.
Gripen also got a lot of anti radarsystem integrated. I don´t know i they work, but i guess the airforce at least believes they work, other vice it would not be much point putting them on
@@clivereid In reality their weapon systems are probably underperforming due to poor crew training whine naval assets are being destroyed by drone boats which isn't unique to Russia historically and the Moskva was sunk which wasn't surprising. However the Sevastopol strikes were just sheer high level stupidity. IRL all weapon systems are vulnerable hence why an Israeli F35 was locked up and hit by an S200 system in 2017 and why S400 being used and deployed by retards is underperforming compared to claims.
they upgraded their systems now to work with awacs@@clivereid
So much wrong with this setup. MiG-29:s? Really? Entirely ignoring Kaliningrad? Also there is no way that kind of surprise attack from the direction from St. Petersburg would be possible. Finland/Estonia would let Sweden know if a russian fleet was moving through the gulf of Finland. This is an interesting concept but to be honest it needs to be entirely redone.
Agree
Also I’m pretty sure at least all the nordic countries would assist immediately
Probably.
Yeah, Sweden has agreements outside the constraints of Nato.
Following Finland's and Sweden's request to join NATO in 2022, Denmark, Iceland and Norway released a statement saying that in the case of an attack on Finland or Sweden before they had become part of NATO, all necessary means would be used to help in their defense. NORDEFCO has not generally been seen as a mutual defense pact and it is not regarded as a command structure, but its members have increasingly added features that show some resemblance to a defense pact. In 2021
@@kurstein79Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark signed an agreement to operate their air forces as 1 big air force... so that would include over 140 F-35s as well... and intelligence would easily pick this up well beforehand and the US would have a full carrier group in the area.
Also don't forget Poland, they would not be sitting there twiddling their thumbs, simply out of own interest they'd be coming to help. And they are beefing up their armed forces massively atm. Also there's the Baltic Air Policing contingent by NATO to defend the airspace of the 3 Baltic countries, currently (as of Sept. 2023) handled by Spain and Italy with their Eurofighters and F-35. They regularly intercept Russian bombers, SIGINT planes and fighters over the Baltic Sea when there is no flight plan filed or transponder code used (which would be the case here).
The Gripen E will be able to carry 4x RBS 15 mk4.
Sweden always expected to lose Gotland during the cold war so the Airbase is deliberately not extensive to prevent easy use by enemy aircraft.
The island has a main civilian airfield and two road runways.
The amount of mods holding these wargames together is awesome.
Great battle and a very fast paced one at that!
But I do find it funny that you kinda forgot one tiny detail; Kaliningrad.
Also forgot the fact that Sweden keeps at least one Gotland on hand nearby.
I would like to think that we have a really good early warning via Finland if they were on the way. And as you stated in the video, about our special ability to initiate the airwing from pretty much any stretch of road long enough. That airbase would be full of decoys..
And we are also experts underwater in this region. They wouldn't even get close :)
Sweden was a major regional power before and during the Napoleonic era. It had decent land forces and capable naval forces. In comparison to its neighbours (during a time when russia was barely able to defend itself from France) it was a significant power.
Greetings from Sweden!
Keep up the great work with this channel!
Is it not better to use the kinzhal missiles on the Iris t systems as a first strike and than use the kaliber's to finish it off?
Fair point.
I doubt Sweden would be all alone against Russia, I'm 85% certain that Finland would assist as well
Finland would 100% join. But probably not for a few weeks. Sweden has said that they can hold the Russians for about 3 months. After that we have to defend our shores. I dont really know how it is today, but during the cold war everyone knew their place if war came.
@johncenashi5117 Civilian side is unprepared but I doubt Russia could pull off a sneak invasion, I think Finland would support with planes more or less right away as its much cheaper for everyone than letting them create a bridgehead
Change that to 100%
these types of videos with the wragames is MUCH more interesting than the other ones. Try do more of these c:
Those war games are great! I don't think there is a Swedish air force base at Gotland, just a tiny Army regiment. Also, the two Russian air wings in Kaliningrad (Chkalovsk + Chernyakhovsk) would probably join the attack, while I'm not sure their CSG would be so massive when Swedish submarines might sneak up on them. This might make for an even harder challenge ... and even more boom-boom!
There is a small airport for domestic flights, which do accomodate 2-4 QRF fighters
@RoadkillxDemon Yeah, the Russian attack would need to be a surprise attack. By the time Sweden’s allies are alerted, the fight has to over already. Germany for example might reconsider a military intervention when Russia takes Gotland very quickly... while they might act when they see it coming several weeks in advance. As it is really difficult to conduct a surprise attack with a large Kuzneszow CSG, Russia would probably use the forces that are already stationed in Kaliningrad.
CH told me that part of the Ronneby squadron bases at Gotland reguarly.
@@HrotiberhtazChina would then join in - not a pretty sight for anyone
@@grimreapersWould not the Visby Corvettes be harder to acquire a target lock on since they are stealth boats?
I guess this is the reason the Swedish fighters are made to land on country roads. Makes it very much harder to cut the runway
Exactly that :) Dispersed airfields in case the home bease gets targeted
The swedes may have some emergency bases scattered around, but I'd imagine it's pretty difficult to coordinate 30 or so pilots all trying to land with minimal fuel, along with sending crews and equipment to each location. They would be able to keep fighting, but the first sortie would take a while to get off of the ground
@@andrasbeke3012resources will obviously be dispatched beforehand. Turnaround is
@@andrasbeke3012 nope, the entire Swedish airforce is designed around the concept. From the modularity and data link network of the Gripen airframes and it's predecessors Viggen and Draken down to a ground crew requirement of only one technical officer and seven conscripts.
@@andrasbeke3012 you'd think so, but drills have proven this not to be the case across the board
You needed a Swedish sub mass ambush.
Dude this is a Russian surprise attack - they would have tons on subs for this attack
Subs are not implemented in dcs
Sweden should have had either more preparation time or at least a flight of Gripen up
Thanks for doing my request! ❤🎉
Pleasure!
Gorshkov survives the battle but will be in dry dock for 10 years for routine maintenance
Wrong ship my guy.
Just like any DCS war games the russian missiles are much more efficient than what we have seen in real life. at least one of those swedish ASMs would have got through.
I'd bet on at least 8/10 Rbs 15 mk4 would be able to bypass CIWS and hit
How the hell do Russians succeed to detect the Swedish corvets so fast it shuld be realy hard they have a low radar cross section
the low RCS doesn't make them invisible, Even if they have the RCS of a dingy, modern radars can still find them.
Yea, but it shuld take some time to find them still@@hughmungus2760
well russian radars are not modern@@hughmungus2760
@@hughmungus2760 but wouldn't be able to get an ID confirmation with all the other sea traffic in the Baltic.
@@SonsOfLorgar it should be assumed that civilian ships in the baltic sea are going to be collateral damage.
The Swedish Chef in Muppet Show 😅😅😅
Don't forget me - I'll be standing on the shore with my .22LR going pew pew pew
Nice to see a simulation on a possible future hotbed. As it stands Gotland is sweet candy for Russia. Sweden is famous in the world for making good weapons although being a neutral and peaceful country for over 200 years.However it looked like your program had some serious problems with the Swedish weapons systems as well as tactics. All of the systems are calibrated to a potential Russian foe for historic reasons. One example could be RBS 15 and I think you used Gungnir. The are supposed to be used in swarms calculated to the opponents size of force and more crucially if you want to shoot down one of these bad boys you better have really agile countermeasures. They all coordinate which each other and slide around like a snakes before final approach.
1:00 You see, Cap, until the early 18th century, Sweden was a continental Great Power. It was the Swedish army under Charles XII (Carolus Rex) that defeated all comers during the Great Northern War. It even invaded Russia in 1708 and stood a fairly good chance of winning for a while. After the Great Northern War, Sweden was partitioned to its current size, and has never been relevant since. However, the memory of Swedish power (combined with the joke of their seemingly perpetual neutrality ever since) has persisted, making it a well known nation even in the United States, which are not famous for knowledge of geography.
Around 40 FA-18 coming for help from Finland in this kind of situation.
You should do if the United Kingdom can defend the shetland islands from a Russian attack. It’s actually similar to this simulation in a few ways too.
Or Ireland maybe? When Russian aircraft approach Irish airspace, it leads to the very awkward situation where they have to ask the UK to intercept them, since Ireland doesn't own any fast jets. Last time I heard the Irish govt were thinking about acquiring some planes for this very reason.
Damn cap, you forgot to include the kuznetsov's complementary tug boats!
How well is the Visby Corvettes stealth simulated? Seemed like they could be seen very early by the Russians.
Great battle!
ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS war game!!! - Thanks Cap 😊😊😊😊
To be fair, Sweden doesn’t need to be in NATO to get NATO’s protection. It just needs an article V-style agreement with Finland. If Russia goes to war with Sweden, and Finland is obligated to join Sweden, what is Russia going to do? NOT attack Finland? Of course Russia would. And then boom. NATO protection for Sweden
Re this scenario. Hasn't the UK guaranteed Swedish security during the NATO accession process? So I trust that UK aircraft and naval units will be rushing to help defend Gotland.
Yes but we had to over-look some bits like that.
Nothing makes you feel more valued on a Monday morning than one of these!
As usual, a fun video from the Grim Reapers.
You forgot the tug boats to tow the Kuznetzov 😂
Fantastic video! Would be great to see with Swedish notorious subs aswell as the use of Kalingrad. Also, it would be more "realistic" if the Gripen's would've been scrambled earlier since the Baltic countries and most certainly Finland would've alerted Sweden.
You forgot one thing in the equation. The Saab Gripen is not dependent on airports, it is built to land on stretches of road in traffic. The whole of Gotland is made up of several straight stretches where Swedish warplanes can land and take off from. It takes about 30 minutes to refuel and rearm the plane en route...
You forgot the two Gävle corvettes and the two Stockholm formerly corvettes, in total adding something like another 24 - 32 RBS 15!
Interesting! :)
BUT missing many aspects from how it'd play in real life in a slightly longer scenario.
From the swedish perspective, when talking about the runways, they aren't nearly as important to the swedish fighters, as they were designed to take off and land on 100's of roads across sweden, they can take off and land on much shorter runways then most other fighters, add to that 100's of roads across sweden designed to be slightly wider, slightly extra long and straight, and with bunkers nearby with fuel and rockets to rearm, and them beeing much faster to rearm then all russian fighters by far, and ofcourse military personal ready to head out and close those roads needed for landing & refuiling the jets.
Also the Gotland stealth subs, they'd be sent out as soon as any russian ship left their harbour, and they are fairly nimble/fast for subs, not to mention russia lacks capabilities to locate them, and they can sink anything small up to biggest of carriers, top modern super stealth subs, that in mock battles with US navy took down a carrier multiple times alone while fighting against a whole fleet of ships designed to defend a carrier against submarine attacks.
Also CB90 (Stridsbåt 90h), that can be viewed as a modern torpedo boat, it's a assault craft to defend the swedish archipelago (270'000 islands, more then any other nation in the world), but all of them capable to be armed with anti ship torpedos.
Also, I think you underestimated how much of the swedish airforce/navy/army are located towards this!
Only a minory of the military is directed to defend anything else then towards the baltic sea with gotland beeing the most likely focal point, russia is the only likely threat we have currently, and any land attack would have to go through finland, thus giving us time to relocate if needed, so like 80-90% of the swedish defenses would likely been in play here.
But russia would also have other aspects they could tactically/strategically benefit from.
Great simulation. A lot of fun to watch!
Not verry realistic but still fun.
It is my understanding that Gripen is more or less made for guerilla /pop-up warfare so having a ton of them located in a base is a tactic that isnt verry realistic nor does it matter if russians blast it to pieces as it's basically just a decoy/trap anyway.
There was at some time 2000 bases for them, but the number is lower now. Hardly anyone know the current number, some number i heard circulation is about 500, but it can be anything from 100 to 1000 active
@@matsv201 Then everything is as it should be! No one knows ;) Military secret.. At least something works :D
@@LigerLt in theory yes.. but I would not be supriced if we found out in a few years that all of them was closed down due to neglegance
@@matsv201 Hysch! "Undesigned" stealth is the proper term ;P
Your pronounciation of Uppsala is spot on btw, good job!
It was pure luck I assure you.
Awesome 👍🏻
The issue here now is that, they had to remove the submarines, because half the fleet would be ambushed and destroyed by a single Gotland before the rest of the pack joins in. Another issue is that there's no ECM modelled from what I can tell, or the Visby RCS is ridiculously large for no apparent reason, because it should not be detected at those ranges. With onshore jamming stations and their low RCS, there's just no way they're spotted from the same range as a Gorshkov frigate. It's like half the bloody size and made of low observable coating.
For a while I think back in the early Cold War the Swedish airforce was as big as the RAF.
Given how British military has degraded so much, is Sweden bigger now?
@@dexlab7539 No.
@@dexlab7539 Swedish airforce degraded probobly even more. from about 1000 fighters down to.. well 70 as the lowest, up to 100 no, probobly going to be 120 after the last expansion
At one point in time(early 80s) sweden had the 4th largest airforce in the world(1st USAF 2nd RUS 3rdUSNAVY)
@@tobiasolsson1593 You are forgetting the US Army and its helicopters.
Just a little note here.
If Sweden was ever attacked, Denmark, Norway, Finland would take it as an attack on all of the Nordic countries.
We have a defense pact. We also created NORDEFCO!
So Russia would be fighting all of us.
love the video serieses as in them all lol
If DCS supported it, it would be interesting to see player controlled surface, and submarine forces to throw more of a wrench into things. Part of my reasoning here being that Sweden regularly keeps at least one of their Gotland class submarines (the sub so stealthy that it's credited with killing a US carrier in war games, and the US never knew it was there) near the island to deter Russians from getting too creative and invading.
This was some fun ! One of the GRs said it best - the Gripens would be back in the air almost immediately rearmed and refueled to attack the handful of Mig-29K remaining, including the Gripens that ran out of fuel and ditched. Also - not sure you'd ever see the VISBYs in open water like that unless caught very off guard. Also, imagine this Gripen with 25% more power and more range, world class sensors and Jammers. That would make it the already produced and exported Gripen E - not yet modelled. The Russians really don't want to mess with Sweden and or Finland (or Poland or Turkey).
Currently there are no more Gripen NG than there are SU-57s, but the production rate is far greater ;)
TBH keeping control over an enormous exclave like Sweden surrounded by NATO has to be a Russian nightmare. But hey, I thought they'd never really attack Ukraine, so...
Yeah, people forget that swedish gripens is designed to operate from roads, rearmed by conscripts. Runways are ideal ofc.
Interresting video. Even there are mayor errors it makes you think.
The islands outside of Estonia actually belongs to Estonia.
- Where are the Swedish subs? They would make a big difference likely 🤨
- If the runways are cut the Gripens will just land on a road nearby. Remember that this is one of the main reasons why Ukraine wants the Gripen ASAP. 😉
hey cap a while ago you guys did a chinese naval attack in san diego with yj-12, maybe you could try an updated one with yj-12, yj-18, and yj-21 and modernized us and chinese carrier groups.
Sure
As a swede this really hits home
Literally LOL
The good thing is that there is no way russia could pull this off without NATO/US/UK intelligence knowing beforehand... the US would immediately have a carrier group in the area, Finland has 64 F-35s coming, as Norway, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark have signed an agreement to operate their air forces as 1 large air force. Denmark has another 27 F-35s on order. And Norways 52 F35s.. NATO knows that this island is strategically important to what is now basically lake NATO. This scenario basically puts everything russia has against the absolute bare minimum defense that would happen in real life.
@@johnoliver4739 Wouldn't Kaliningrad have had some assets in the fray?
@@ShanLiB probably, but anything they tried to do would have NATO countries on every side to hit them back.
You have Gotland class submarines. Those rapouchas will never reach the shore.
Intense and very cool battle
The 57mm air-burst shells from Visby is not proximity fussed. They are computer control preburst rounds. It make a huge area of shrapnel in front of what ever flies into it. The faster the missile is, the harder the shrapnel would hit. I kind of doubht that a hypersonic missile would survive that.
It being hypersonic don´t help in the slightest when its preburst shells. The computer know the range and speed and can just preburst it at the closer range to get optimal effect.
I also kind of doubt they would detect Visby that far out. And apart from that, Visby is in a very unstrategic position. Sweden got some pretty decent subs as well like the Gottland class.
"Kinematic notches a metior"
yea.. that sounds a bit unrealistic, it can do 20G turns
Its not only that the Gripen lack the anti missile system that it have IRL but also lacks the advanced anti radar system, specially so the E version that is started to get online today.
"will refuel that would not happen in the time of the battle today"
Wahahahaha... well its faster to refuel a Gripen than a volvo. Yes, they refuel with the engine still on.
Swedish airforce don´t run dedicated attack or fighter sortie. Now all sorties are mixed sorties. So the plain would not have either meteor or RBS15, but rather both. And it would probobly have 2 meteior, 2 RBS15, 5 sidewinders and a drop tank.
The Swedish patriot system have not a dedicated position, but move around on a week by week basis. It would be rare to see them so far inland, and also its unlikely that Russian would know where they are. They have the ability to be based of Gotland, and if there would be a indication of threat a few days in forehand, they probobly would be.
Meteor missile can track on other planes radar, but also on the ground system as well as the sea based system. So the missiles could be fired with out the plane having a lock. They would probably have a few planes in front with short range missiles guiding in the Metior and RBS15 from planes flying around over Stockholm somewhere.
"They can´t land if the runway been cunt"
*Laught in Swedish supremacy*
Do you want to bet?
How did the corvettes get spotted instantly, they're stealth ships below the horizon?
I think the Swedish aviation industry basically just exists because russia ... Which is kinda the same reason the US military and NATO exists.
Doubtless- so we have Russia to thank for such BEAUTIFUL airplanes... the Swedes do aircraft right, that's for sure ;)
The US military exists because of the grifters in the Pentagon and MIC
Thanks!
Good thing the Gripen doesn't need runways =)
Great video GR, I just have a question I’ve been thinking of getting my own server and I’d like to know how much some of the stuff costs like for example the F35 and type 055 destroyers Arleigh Burkes or a Gerald Ford carrier. Or maybe even just team up with Grim Reaper
In game they are all free. In real life I just Google the units to get their real life prices.
The Gripen looks faster.
Looks is everything.
Nothing more beautiful than TU-160!
Missiles, that’s where Visby and SAAB steps in, with phased radar anti-missile targeting systems hooked directly into the cannons.
Visibility, a Griffon JAS-E squadron has linked radars, in effect greatly increasing the area covered, doing the Swede version of an AWACS.
Russia could have theoretically used Kaliningrad as a base for heavy fighters like SU35 or MIG31 to support, or even a second prong to counter-pincer the Swedes. Maybe also land based cruise missiles?
It would be interesting to see an expanded scenerio with the Swedish mainland and Kaliningrad modeled
Would love to see some new tech:
Spear 3, Sea Spear and Spear 3 EW UK AGMs and type 31 now it holds 32 mk 41 VLS and some more UK wargames. Love these big wargames CAP, they are just fantastic so thank you!
Roger working on it :)
would also like to see the wildcat with 20 martlet missiles or 4 sea venom missiles
@@grimreapers Amazing!
you do realise that Sweden along with Finland have a Mutual defence pact with the UK
I did not.
@@grimreapers Seriously? 🤣 Wow, the ignorance...😆
Nice Sunday mission guys.
This is why I watch this series for these what ifs with as real a sim as possible and some human baffonery in the mix
Interesting scenario this one. Sweden is also well known for the worlds most famous chef.
I recommend you test his signature dish: Chocolate Moose.
@@ghostviggen lol!
Thats alot to watch, complete madness😂
2:26 this one here, lol. the pronunciation in Uppsala and Ronneby is actually very good.
What about the Kaliningrad naval base? Wouldn't that play a part, considering its tactical placement in the south Baltic?
Sorry guys thats just not realistic I saw a lot of bugs with the Russian hardware. 1) the aircraft carrier was not on fire, you need to fix that. 2) Russian cruse missiles are not used to attack airfields, they are designed to hit hospitals, kindergartens, apartment buildings and parks, you need to fix that too. 3) Everybody knows the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal can not be shot down by anything because it is hypersonic and no hypersonic ICBM has ever been shot down not even satellites by American made missiles, thats definitely true ;-) 4) many of those ships have been converted to submarines and are stuck in the Black Sea.
so far no gorshkov has been hit. Ukraine brags about hitting 50 yearold ships on the brink of retirement or ships laid up in drydock. Yeah big woop.
Let me guess. You worship LoserPig and are a proud member of NAFO?
@@hughmungus2760 The Dry dock can no longer be used dip shit. It has a brand new state of the fart sub burning in it. 🖕🖕so all the other damaged ships can not be fixed. There are no Gorshkovs in the Black Sea and Russia only has 2 any way Big WOOP!
You would think DCS would do more purge 'zombie elements' from a game. There must be reasons why not.
Yes, I agree every time he posts a video he has to make the same excuse about the DCS or the AI not working properly and it has been the same for years. Presumably, these errors or 'zombie elements get reported back to the manufacturers so why are these problems not ironed out?
It's a DCS thing I'm afraid.
@@grimreapers Yes.
As soon as an attack is suspected the Gripens are already being dispersed to surrounding road bases. Turnaround times at a road base is such that the plane spends no more than around 10 minutes on the ground before the next sortie. Everything needed to achieve this is on trucks and can be moved to wherever needed very quickly.
Meanwhile, Finland sends out a couple of jets and sinks the troop transports while nobody is looking.