Divorcing a Narcissist: Six Family Lawyers’ Advice
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- What do narcissists do in divorce? Have you faced an opposing spouse who is a narcissist? In that situation, what is your advice to your client? What advice do you have for young family lawyers opposing a narcissist for the first time? What are your favorite negotiating tactics when the opposing party is a narcissist? How to protect yourself when divorcing a narcissist. How do you outsmart a narcissist in a divorce? What will a narcissist do during divorce?
Stephen Peskind's article he referenced in video: www.peskindlaw.com/liars-chea...
0:00 - Have You Faced an Opposing Spouse Who is a Narcissist? What What Your Advice to Your Client?
10:21 - What Advice Would You Have For Young Family Lawyers Opposing a Narcissist for the First Time?
16:48 - What Are Your Favorite Negotiating Tactics When an Opposing Party Is a Narcissist?
To view this on our web site, see memphisdivorce.com/divorce/di...
For more detailed discussion, visit memphisdivorce.com/tennessee-...
memphisdivorce.com is a comprehensive family law resource on divorce, custody, alimony, and more. Discover all you can learn.
Thank you for contributing your experience and expertise to our “Top Family Lawyers Answer Questions” CZcams playlist video series. Cheers.
Randy Kessler
Atlanta, Georgia
Kessler & Solomiany, LLC
www.ksfamilylaw.com/attorneys...
ABA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Melissa Avery
Indianapolis, Indiana
Broyles Kight & Ricafort, P.C., Of Counsel
bkrfamilylaw.com/indianapolis...
ABA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Joseph W. Booth
Lenexa, Kansas
Law Offices of Joseph W. Booth
www.boothfamilylaw.com/joseph...
ABA Family Law Section, Co-Chair of Publications Board
Scott N. Friedman
Columbus, Ohio
Friedman & Mirman Co., L.P.A.
www.friedmanmirman.com/attorn...
ABA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Stephen N. Peskind
St. Charles, Illinois
Peskind Law Firm, PC
www.peskindlaw.com/steven-n-p...
ABA Family Law Section, Author
Barry L. Gold
Chattanooga, Tennessee
McWilliams, Gold & Larramore
mcgfirm.com/barry-l-gold/
TBA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Miles Mason, Sr,
Memphis, Tennessee
Miles Mason Family Law Group, PLC
memphisdivorce.com/about-us/m...
ABA Family Law Section, Author
#narcissist #divorce #MilesMason
Experienced divorce lawyer here who has successfully handled many cases involving a narcissist. Great video! I make videos telling people how to spot a narcissist BEFORE they marry one. An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.
Mine is hoovering 20 years later after divorce through flying monkey family member. To coercively get information to me. To let me know he won something. I hope coercive control becomes prosecutable soon. They will do anything to make sure you know they are always the winner. It's like having your own personal demon. Also psychologically abusing us still. 20 years later. I would love to get my law degree and go after them. It just never ends. I'm advising family member no more contact. Either way, I'll lose. In his mind. It's the most bizzare relationship I've ever seen. Thank you to the lawyers for educating partners going through this nightmarish consequence of marrying a child.
I sure wish I would've talked to you before I wasted 30 years of my life. I guess you aren't in Canada by any chance, are you?
@@marypetersonma6661 :) oh god get out!
@@MrNikhilgherwar I wish I could, but unless I give him everything he wants, it won't be easy. Do you know if I have to accept his tax information if I know he was underemploying himself for those years
Do you know if I have to accept his tax information disclosure if I know he was underemploying himself for those years
Thank you to all lawyers who participated in this video. The content was superb. Thank you so very much.
I'm disabled now, and I'm older - too late to start a new career. Since he was a monster, I stayed until the baby turned 18, and both our kids are away in college - I wasn't going to leave him alone with my innocent children. So I want my half of everything, and alimony, because we built it together, i helped him in his career, and we live a comfortable life now - before we decided for me to quit and raise our children. He used to destroy my expensive books, and my college work, and since he kept me in a constant state of high stress, I couldn't focus on my dream for a degree in architecture, and/or interior design. He also moved me far away into the mountains, and it was hard for me to keep up with my service based business. He kept me financially dependent. He was aggressive at first, but now that he retained a suoer lawyer, like mine, i think the lawyer is ellubg him to cool off. Thank you for this!!! 🌷
I needed you. He went so far he made me so poor I could not even get access to legal representation. While he used and only entiteld to money of our community assets, I did never have.
same right now..
This is my situation, even though I'm entitled to the money he controlled, I can't afford a solicitor to get it.
But if you retaliate, look how quick the lawyers are to come running
This video is extremely helpful. It's a comfort to know there are Attorneys who recognize how to handle Narc spouses in court. Although the word gets thrown around a lot, there are still controlling, manipulative behaviors that make the divorce process harder than it needs to be. A good attorney needs to be mindful of that. I only wish there was one in the video from my state.
They will sow chaos in a divorce case and attempt to muddy the water so the judge doesn’t know what is going on. If you sit back and stay mentally unshaken (get a psychology class/stoicism) and emotionally detach (no emotion just logic like Spock and they never loved you; people are objects to them); they will win the case FOR you. Get a journal, focus on being a great parent and let them fail.
lovely words. they come from your own experience?
@@ACTRoottoFruitPodcast I’m living through it right now.
The music in the background is very loud and distracting
Prepare for trial unless you have the financial ability to walk away from everything you have aquired together.
If the divorce is not long it is a red flag you've been duped. I wish I knew what a narcissist was when I was divorcing. I would have known a settlement agreement meant I just avoided DISCOVERY. Even in the most amicable cases I believe discovery should be done.
Problem is when you get a narcissist who hires a narcissist attorney who encourages litigation even when the narcissist is caught in lies. I have that going on in my case.
I’m sorry to hear that is going on in your case. It’s been a month since you last posted this, how are things coming along? I’m in the beginning process of the divorce with a narcissist. Next step is mediation, court hearing next month. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Stay strong and firm.
I believe I have the same problem and a spineless weak attorney representing me...smdh
@@cpmama1 get a new attorney.
@@cpmama1 sorry to hear that. I can’t afford an attorney. Our post nup says we each pay our own atty fees. You can always get a new attorney if you can afford it.
THIS VIDEO HELPED !
I’M MARRIED FOR 24 YEARS WITH A NARCISSIST HUSBAND . THE MARRIAGE HAS DECLINED MARCH 2016.
I’VE BEEN OUT OF WORK FOR 24 YEARS OUTSIDE AND STARTED WORK INSIDE .
THEN IT WAS TO LATE …. NO SAVINGS , ALWAYS BUSY WITH COOKING , CLEANING , SCHOOL WORK EXTRA . Now
Going for A Divorce the husband takes of for vacation for 5 weeks or more. Left without leaving no credit card ,emergency extra money.
The money he left was 500 $.
In the meantime I’ll work on the court papers. When he gets back I’ll have the court papers then he may need another vacation. ! 😆
As someone who had been labeled as a narcissist, I find the labeling offensive.
Chances are, divorce lawyers are narcissistic and seek to do the most damage to a family unit while reaping financial gain from destroying said family unit, versus getting that family back together.
Rule of thumb: Why invite someone to a divorce that was not invited to the wedding? Two, don't get married. Leave the system out of your love life!!
Relax a little bit. It's extremely common for a manipulative person to label the target. You might have been the target of someone.
Yes, for sure... some Lawyers/ Doctors / Candle stick makers, are not much better than the person that clients are trying to resolve legal attachment to, so I understand your point.
You don't have to get married ever again. Seek out a fantastic connection with a partner and enjoy loving someone and being loved
Bitter much?
Thank you so much, this is the best advice I've heard!!!
Present the facts, keep emotions out of it. Don't label him/her as a narc as if they have not been diagnosed as you will be thought of as the paranoid one or the one being difficult or laying the blame at the other person's door. The narc will not accept any responsibility. Aim for a 50/50 split of assets. Be truthful be fair and a judge will more than likely side with you. Do not have contact with them do it all through your lawyer.
I'm in the position to not use the word to describe my spouse in the process. I'm not able to get an attorney and I have to do my own litigation. I'm amazed at the fact that you get told that you won't have a chance because you can't buy justice in the United States. That's a very poor example for a country that pride's itself to be founded on law and order.
Don’t listen to whoever is telling you that. I represented myself in my divorce against a Narc and as long as you have solid evidence, stay organized and don’t negotiate with your Ex then you Will be fine. When you question them during cross examination they will lie so make sure to ask questions that you have solid proof for and the judge will see right through them. Just be prepared to be in this for quite a while bc when you win, they will appeal and continue to fight. Also, you HAVE to have a court reporter so that every word is documented. This is costly but essential. Good luck! You’ve got this!
It's not only in the states, it's rampant in Canada. My ex refers to his lawyer as his $1000.00/hour drug lawyer in his pocket
Already went through one divorce from a narcissist this time I am willing to walk away with nothing other than staying in contact with my girls if they choose to stay with him they are 17 & 19 I believe when they see I mean it this time they will follow & the things that are important to me like my family things which I am getting out before he knows what is going on
I just can't believe I've been so stupid and didn't even see it coming. One good thing it taught me was to question everything and trust only a few
Going through divorce with one now who is evil to his core. I will be satisfied if I come through alive.
How ironic my ex name was johnson. Entire family evil to core and bury not just me financially but everyone who enters their family . Even tried the alienation and false allegation route. Didn’t work.
However this evil family from
Long Island never ever stops .
dear just...let your faith be bigger than your fear!!! I came up the same way!
Ahhh, you can do better than that!
Comment to Barry Gold:
Narcissism is NEVER healthy. Narcissist doesn’t have self-esteem, empathy or boundaries. What is healthy is self-love, empathy and healthy boundaries. But never narcissism. You probably don’t know what narcissistic personality disorder is.
Mine was sleeping with prostitutes and my nental health left the planet
This is all excellent advice and insight.
This is the video I need
Hearing these lawyers say “my client told me their spouse is a narcissist” is funny to me. My lawyer was the one who stopped me while I was describing our circumstances and asked me “do you think he’s a narcissist?”
People had been saying that to me for a year now when I would tell them what was going on leading up to and after our separation. When my own lawyer said it, and she also had a background in therapy before becoming a lawyer, I said hmm, you know, maybe he is…
Thank you so much, sirs 🙏👏
Don’t be afraid to look for a second opinion with a different attorney if you don’t feel accurately represented.
I tried t o get a second opinion but was told by 2 different attorney that they could not talk to me about my case in any manner while I am till contracted with an existing attorney.
@@EmilyJohnson558 sometimes you can get a free consultation without a retainer
Has anyone ever felt like they were manipulated into hiring the lawyers they did? I had 15-20 consults with different lawyers, only to find out there's such a thing called lawyer tampering. With that being said, does it matter in the courts, how much your lawyer charges per hour? My ex said something to me once that I found really odd, he said," maybe I should have thought about getting a $1000.00/hour drug lawyer in my pocket, like he has". Do they have more pull with the court system, because the courts are giving him whatever he wants, and yet he still continues to terrorize me.
@@marypetersonma6661I felt manipulated by my former attorney. I’d previously spoken to several, and he offered the lowest retainer initially. Then when it came down to trial, he asked for even more money. Needless to say, I lost money and still didn’t get the results I asked for. I am going pro se now and I don’t feel that no one can tell my story better than I can. I seek help from the self help center quite often. I’m not represented and he is. The lawyer he has is a narcissist too and just taking his money. I am hopeful the case will be over soon, by the end of this year. It’s drug out for over two years.
@thenorthface4 I have learned to never take a lawyer up on a free consultation. As long as you pay them something, even $50.00, that lawyer can not discuss your case with another lawyer. A friend of my ex's told me that my ex went around pulling a Tony Soprano when this all started. In other words he had consultations with all the best lawyers in the city, and a few in another city as well. So none of these lawyers can talk to me now, because he paid for the consultation with them. I always wondered where the $11,000.00 that he could not account for, that was missing out of a bank account, went to.
Thank very much
Excellent video. Thank you!
You are welcome!
come out of it after 3 yrs!!! finally!
people are not afraid, people dont want to waste their precious time!
Let them win is only choice to come out of a narc relationship
How does someone get undue influence written into a formal offer to settle
Some great comments. Here's something to consider about narcissism - all of us are narcissistic when we are in pain - it then becomes all about us. So many times, both people come in calling the other a narcissist. While there are clinical narcissists, we always have to be careful of labels and treat each case individually. There are also other personality disorders that mimic symptoms of narcissism.Narcissism is a scale that we all slide along on, depending on our need for self preservation. My hope is to check my own place on that scale before I point a finger at the other. Great advice on there is to let the (true) narcissist feel like they win something. Otherwise, it just keeps escalating. They may lose in court, but they will make life miserable until they feel like they have won. You can't out-mean mean.
What I believe this idea of "narcissists" I believe what they really mean is narcissistic sociopaths with anti-social disorders.
An actual true narcissist with narcissistic personality disorder displays this behavior consistently. When someone says they’re dealing with a narcissist it doesn’t mean once every 3 years they displayed those traits. It typically means all day every day abuse, antagonizing, control, rage and manipulation. My house was in a CONSTANT state of chaos. There wasn’t a single day that went by peacefully and his behavior was so bizarre I’d often say am I at home or the m3ntal institute??? Maybe some people throw the word around carelessly but someone feeling a little self centered occasionally is not a narcissist. A lot of people incorrectly think that.
Even through our ongoing divorce that could have easily been completed in a few months he’s creating unnecessary battles and actually setting traps for himself because he’s so crazed trying to attack me. It’s a level of evil like you see in a villain in a movie.
@@pocahontas4583I’m there with you, and it’s drug on for over two years. Hopefully it will be resolved by the end of 2023…
How l do it my husband take everything before the divorce is over he hite everything .money. he pay the insurance for the house. Now he wants me to pay before the divorce is over
“Have I had a case where op is not a narcissist” 😂😂😂😂😂
If I’m litigating/filing financial motions vs not just helping draft their divorce paperwork, it seems at least one party is on the B cluster personality spectrum to some degree.
I agree with your summation. Just deal with their bs and settle if low assets. You’ll spend more money fighting. But, high assets with a power imbalance you need to be unreasonably aggressive. (Ie just file the motion, provide excessive evidence and PNAs.) Otherwise, you never move to solid orders by trying to negotiate an agreement.
What do you consider low / high assets?
Thank you
I am studying so I am not considered an imbecile or peon.
My husband thinks I am useless property now that the children are grown.
Not a slave but a woman deceived.
Yes or no my right to say and why?
I am a free woman and we are married.
He denies any rights but his and I have no support at all.
On his side as if I have no rights.
Family shuns me.
Totally dependent on him and elderly and disabled from abuse.
Social disservice’s harmful.
No help?
Computers answer those pretending to help the woman who is being hurt.
No help.
In Tennessee I had the money but the lawyer’ s girls said “ go back to my.
Discrimination.
I did but no help here, either.
I only came back cause my son needed me.
Pray for me.
New York courts corrupt.
Discrimination against disabled and actively harm truth tellers.
Ya very difficult people deal with.
What if I'm divorcing a narcissist wife.
LOL hunker down AKA prepare to be billed and goto court. These lawyers have been coached to use the word "narcissist" to engage clients who have been told their spouse is a "narcissist".
Genial!!!
How does this play out in no fault divorce as in pennsylvania
Do a lot of narcissist people try to get rid of their spouse by tampering with their vehicles
Nothing would suprise me.
So how many times do you end up with your ex trying to kill you, or make you have accidents, are you then justified in taking matters into your own hands if the law enforcement in your area won't lift a finger to help you, except to say, move out of their jurisdiction
They will do anything to win-even murder.
The real problem are the judges.
Idk, your right! I would agree with you, I won't only because of fear of controls and a very greedy buisness that can change! Why fund these controls? I'm not a narsisit and you can't label me or other people for that matter! Pathetic, trapping kids to sell this buisness again and use the same people involved with court and buisness and not growing because they pull them in again! Such a waste of future's worth living! Young lawyers? Wow! Awesome job!!!! Wow intitled people are playing game's with other people's lifes and actual victims have been assulted by hand cuffs, allowed others to take charge when they gave up because the talks sounded so above themselfs at the time and also being within rooms with stainless steal toilet bowls and hospitals illegally forcing meds because they where not on the other people's progams acting with care yet not even showing love towards thier own children while giving to the rest of the town! So then what are you if you take away a child from a person's life illegally because you want old blood? What's that label calles? Because the law hasn't been followed on my end yet I keep listening! This is aweful, you people are playing with people's life!!!! I can't listen to this anymore! I hope the best, this is not for me
With all due respect...Demand Set One answers including ALL pages of ALL documents provided within 60 days, if all pages not produced then a Motion to Compel is immediately filed - whomever controlled finances during divorce is responsible for ALL legal fees of BOTH parties until Case is settled - Case should settle within 90-120 days
Is that your opinion or is that the law? I really want to know, since your statement would help me a lot.
My husband controls the finances. I know he will be using them to retain a lawyer. I could get access to the finances or request money we receive be placed into my account. I do not want to do anything that will back fire on me. If I have to pay out of pocket to retain a lawyer, couldn’t I get reimbursed?
Huh, mine has been going on for 7 years. I just posted a question to the lawyer here, I guess they won't put it up, cause I haven't seen it anywhere. If that's the case, as it was a legitimate question, then I will cancel out this site
We had separated, and we got back together, and I had all new things from the apartment, move things into the apartment, and the narcissist is destroying my personal things. What do I do?
Call the police and file a order of protection so they can't come to your house.
Then go no contact!
Sue him for Everything just to shake him.
“Barry Gold” explains it best.. and as a narcissist.. he almost made me cry. No threats , logic or reason. Only facts of what is or what will become , no threatening, begging, asking or pleading. This is where I made a mistake of marrying a Asian woman over a Mexican woman. I was with my wife for 10 years and then married for 3 years 7 months more.. I think it was me moving in with her family a month after we got married. Due to her father saying he wanted another relationship and it was impossible living with his parents. His biggest issue with me was being 4 years older than his daughter. Yet the truth is was when I did all this he had a child with someone as old as my wife/his daughter. So I guess I lost to narcissist more narcissistic than I was. Yet my wife at the time.. I still used me. Not only her but her father. I stating facts but who knows.. I might be wrong. I might be just a lonely loser. Lost all my life. From getting beaten as a child to trying to find love. I still think am I the problem or am I the one who knew the problem and tried to solve it. Still either or, I was always a fool.
Very insightful. Thanks! So HOW do low - to 'no income' women, get a divorce from an individual with some money?
I asked my Narcissistic sister's probate lawyer "how much did she pay you to be manipulated? ", "you're just a pawn on a chess board" I said, he got enraged at me, a few months later he dropped her as a client, she got another lawyer.
12:51 "...the only one that's going to lose is the narcissist AND your client..." so, everyone loses?
Your kids. Well my kids. Not if I can help it in any way. I will fight for what is actually best for them. And I love them enough that if dad is healthy for them to be with.... Then they should be connected to him regardless if I am or not.
Starting divorce and my narcissistic has lied so much already aren’t they avoid being outed???
What happens though when there are a few shady lawyers that are his lawyers friends
a Narcissist is a Pharisee. Other wise people are throwing that word around.
Should I send my wife this video who has decided to make our devorce pure hell. She is pure evil. ?
Don't contact her at all.
They love the attention.
They feed on your energy like parasites.
My husband is a narcissist
I'm not sure your strategy working with us narcissist is correct on all opinions, but you pretty much hit the highlights. Remember also that us narcissists are often overachievers and when we are in a legal setting where the case takes months, and we think it should be over in about 30 minutes is gets very frustrating. Working with government employees is absolutely mind boggling. In most cases nowadays most judges are woman. Sure, they will be fair minded for about 4 seconds, fall asleep then wake up and grant all assets to the wife. They can be great thinkers but sadly they are not and of course the man always loses everything.
Not true! Opposite sex and Opposite outcome here along with an enormous amount of deceit. Never assume anything unless you have the cold, hard facts.
Spoken like a true macho narcissist. Women judges?! What an outcry....should be making sandwiches not life changing decisions for the almighty superior man and his lowly wife and children!
@@criquethamrick your name says it all
Not in my case
Some lawyers that understand the illness
“Liars cheats and scoundrels” - you mean lawyers? They will do anything for the narc because the narc will pay. Lawyers care nothing for the truth. Just money.
Not true - some lawyers have standards and will fire their own clients if they are expecting more than what’s reasonable.
How to spot a future pro se defendant.
All these guys make fun of narcissism
🙄🙄🙄
🙏💜🙏
There are many personality disorders, don’t make the mistake of diagnosing someone when u really have no background as a psychologist
I agree. We have limited our discussion to the general descriptive term rather than narcissistic personality disorder as diagnosed by a clinical psychologist.
I just found out how dangerous mine was today!
My ex and his lawyer tried stealing my half of a pension
Lol everyone is a narcissist. No one is human any more .
I’m not divorce yet. My husband is a narcissist. I have to prepare for war with him. I might even keep him away from me 😱
dear just...let your faith be bigger than your fear!!! I came up the same way!
Go no contact except through lawyers. Please!
My Exwife is a liar, cheater and professional victim.
You sound like a narcissist..
Standard for women in divorce
@@tysonbrown1277 I know what you are.
Research covert narcissist.
Find a good Jewish attorney ❤❤❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉