QUADRASTEER! GM Parasitic Battery Drain from the FACTORY? (Part 2)
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- čas přidán 23. 06. 2023
- Let's install the used eBay HVAC module and see if it goes to sleep properly.
But the GMC Quadrasteer decides to throw a curve ball, and this time the parasitic drain is up to almost HALF AN AMP!! What CHANGED?
So this truck has MULTIPLE parasitic drains, and some of them are apparently INTERMITTENT!
We have to follow the data and continue the diagnosis until ALL of the parasitic drains are resolved.
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Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
It has been 6 weeks and everything is great. I might ask Ivan to put the other options on ignition switch to not confuse the the heater door actuators. Thank you so much Ivan, Also, I might have Ivan replace the rear audio since he is the best of the best. He figured our stuff GM could not do. The truck is perfect. This truck is a GMC killer with the supercharger. I hope Ivan enjoyed driving it. Ivan, please show a video of you driving it. I told you to drive the crap out of it. See you soon.
Great looking truck and sounds bad-ass!! I would really like to see Ivan's road test video! lol!
These videos are invaluable. I consider myself to almost at the peak of AC voltage equipment troubleshooting and I say almost because working for a power company there are just some types of equipment my job title doesn’t get to work on. And it’s a great feeling to watch such an educational video and learn the the automotive DC voltage side of things.
I wish there were more guys like you not only in automotive electrical but mechanical too. Example: my fathers work truck started running rough two weeks ago. I told him I really don’t have the time to work on it now and neither did he. So he brought it to a shop where they told him he needed a new engine due to zero compression on cylinder 3. He asked why it had zero compression, what did you find? They said the compression test was the extent of their diagnostic abilities 🤣🤣🤣 and he said BS! He told them he’s not replacing an engine 6.0 LQ4 trusty gm motor for zero compression when it’s probably a valve issue. So we got it back home popped off the valve cover and sure enough a broken exhaust valve spring. No valve piston contact visible with the bore scope, threw in a new valve spring without removing the head and it fired up and ran great. It’s too bad these shops don’t care like you do
There is a feature on some GM HVAC controllers for "afterblow", blows the fan for a minute after a couple hours of sitting to dry it off to prevent mold. Maybe not enabled on this truck, but perhaps the software keeps the module awake for at least that long because of this feature.
So that's what afterblow is?! I never knew that! I saw it as an option to program into the HVAC modules when I'd replace them. You can turn it off using the thinktool or launch scanners. Curious if that would make the module go-to sleep sooner
@@moo3993not sure. I might give it a try next week on one at the shop to see but it’s really a non issue as it’ll go to sleep soon enough.
@@Jpilgrim30 as long as the module isn't staying up for multiple days at a time, I think four and a half hours at 0.040 mah is going to be negligible on current draw. Now if it does that for days on end... Different story lol. If you end up doing that and remember, let me know! Next time I get one I'm going to check it out. As cool as it is to turn on features that weren't present originally, I've learned I get myself into more trouble sometimes lol. Especially VW coding. Now Toyota coding, that's a treat. They make it idiot proof lol. GM coding you can hang yourself sometimes lol
@@moo3993 yeah Toyotas are pretty straightforward. Nissan is a little crazy as well. Had one come in recently with a key light on the dash that wouldn’t go away and it had a code for a hood switch circuit. Eventually found that the car didn’t have a hood switch as only the remote start cars had them and someone had enabled the remote start option in the BCM. Of course I had to find out for myself as it was an auction car so we had no history or customer to get any information from. Turned it off and the code and lights went away.
@@Jpilgrim30 that's exactly how I get myself into trouble 😂😂 Tried to get remote start enabled for a buddy of mine on a Ford f150, got the remote start fobs for it, programmed them in, and enabled it in the personality menu on the BCMii, and because his truck didn't have factory cruise control it wouldn't work. Found that out after a couple hours of research. Never say "I can do that, it'll be easy" lol
That cell phone charger should be on Keyed Power. That way when He shuts the Key off the Charger on Console goes off. He wouldn't be using it anyhow not in the truck..Just a suggestion. Great find..
Great work Ivan, you not gonna get this level of service at the dealer.
I want to replace dealers for this reason.
Great video your patience is what sets you apart from most diagnostic techs. Rather than fixate on the extra time being used you dont become discouraged and enjoy rather than become annoyed when extra complexities occur. Putting up with such a annoying problem for a owner who looks after his truck would have been a constant distraction and no one being able to fix it. Great outcome luckily it eventually showed up with your persistance and abut of luck.
I completely agree! This truck would be exhausting to a tech on the clock in a traditional shop environment! But the process would still be the same, even if annoying! Document, stop to communicate, and carry on! Only question would be whether or not your boss and the customer think your crazy or not!? In Ivan’s case, he’s built himself a little fame for know-how and integrity… I suspect that takes the “crazy” out of play😂 Hats off to Ivan! Great work as always!
I ran into this same issue with the HVAC control module years ago. There is a Bulletin No.: 02-01-39-007B stating it can take up to 4.5 hrs for the control module to go to sleep. This is a normal condition.
I posted this in part 1. Alldata has service bulletins, maybe he should have looked first lol
4.5 hours? Terrible design!
It's a pos
Good ol delco electronics 😂
@@scrappy7571is there more info about why? Is it a moisture thing?
I like the way you roll. The customers are happy, your fans are happy, and you're happy. Perfect ending. Thank you Ivan.......Pete
If I remember right, the auto climate control head on 03-07 gmt800 platforms can actually take several hours to fully go to sleep. Edit, others already posted about this. It's normal and eventually does go to sleep....
Well done, Ivan! This went completely different from what I expected! NPR and only 7mA draw - after 20 years, the owner is finally happy, which is the really important outcome.
When you start getting into 20+year territory, it's possible that a large percentage of used spares may have common age related failures like the sleep issue on that HVAC module. At that point unless someone has figured out how to refurbish them you'd have to resort to solutions like you came up with.
Exactly right!
Interestingly, this is normal behavior. TSB says it can take over four hours
@@Walczyk I suspect the HVAC module is actually doing something like measuring the interior temp (but not sure why).
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Hello, I have this same problem, what was the solution of this, was it the fuel pump or the time synchronization? F150 Ecoboost no start
Fantastic! You are the parasitic draw king! Giving the owner options to get around today's complex electronic modules is awesome! Keep up the great videos.
Great job. One thing, the rear audio draw could be caused by one speaker lead shorted to chassis. That would send about half the battery voltage to ground through a 4 or 8 ohm speaker. Very roughly the right current. The speaker could still work through the other side’s push-pull driver.
Well done. I admire your patience.
That's why you get cross country business. Your one of the best in the business!
Moral of the story: intermittent drain creating
Havoc for the owner,the other repair shops ivan has the patience and awareness to go the distance ivan wins again
Great video👍👍👍👍👍
Bonus footage run the drive cycles to ensure you
Don't have any comebacks
And a happy customer
Ivan does it again wish i was younger and lived by you i would give my time to learn from you , you are top knotch thanks
You should be so proud of yourself. No only do you solve difficult and annoying problems but you take the rest of us along for the ride and we are all smarter for the journey.
@Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, hey Ivan, enjoyed the videos! The build date for the CCM was just above the place of assembly, "18Oct02" - Oct. 18, 2002 I would presume. What's interesting to me is that once you removed the CCM fuse, the amperage went from ~.458 to ~.420 which suggests that the CCM was actually drawing the "normal" 30-40 mA instead of the 75 or 100+mA we saw in the first video. Glad you finally figured this one out Ivan! It suggests to me that there is likely something wrong in the design of these CCM's or that they just don't age well. Maybe it's an internal component/pathway issue that develops over time. As for the fix, I think that's what someone else did but I believe he used a relay and fuse in the circuit.
always nice to see a GM truck from this generation (99/02-06) get diagnosed and repaired every once in awhile. cheers to the owner for taking it to Ivan!
Nice one Ivan!!! Curious how long ago the "last" tech looked at this. Our tooling was just getting better 20 years ago. Maybe just never had the know-how, tools, or proper training. You have got another Lifelong customer!
Great job and a great video as usual Ivan!
This actually looked like an easy fix for you, Ivan. In retrospect, it amazes me that the previous technicians couldn't figure it out. Your videos are very entertaining and educational, keep up the great work!
Previous techs most likely checked for a draw, and found it to be normal. Intermittent problems take time. Ivan was lucky to catch it when it was acting up. Customers here like to "wait" for everything, so we would have sent it packing too, if the draw was normal.
Wow three draws removed two by measuring the fuse voltage drops. You didn't need the thermal imagery but its cool to see. Nice work!
Ivan. I couldn't wait for part 2. :-) :-) You have the patience of a saint. Great job, once again. God bless you and your wife.
WOW! Reminds me of my Dad's 1970 Buick Electra 225. I found the radio and the dash clock (used power to wind the clock and then shut off) both were drawing down his battery,
You do realize I was dying by the time you dropped the second video, right? Interesting case study. I really appreciate how you share your thought process when troubleshooting. Thank you for another great video.
Great solutions Ivan. 👍👍🇺🇸
Your amazing talented with your diagnostic skills thanks for sharing with us your amazing skills .
Amazing.... I learn so much from you .
Great diagnosis!!! Fancy shmancy stuff at the root again! I've always maintained that in most cases, it was the stuff you really didn't need that cost the most to buy and to keep operating.
Nice work Ivan! Although I am not sure if some are aware how much time is invested in this diagnosis and repair? At our shop they charge $140 an hour. So 10 hours in this repair = $1400 with no parts required. Time is money, just as parts are.
Just want people aware that this is not free, some baulk at a 1 hour starting diagnosis. I frequently hear, "you're going to charge me just to check it?" :/
For this one I charged (no pun intended) 4 hours diag plus wiring modifications 👍
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I have voiced my opinions in the past concerning the repairs you have performed and not completing a diagnosis. I have a feeling you sell yourself short on the times you charge. This is your work and not your hobby. Like others and this guy, they have lived with a problem for a long time and have paid others to load the parts cannon to no avail. If you got ten hours invested for diag and repair, charge them. It's not your problem they did not get their car repaired by others; they should go back to the "repairing facility" and get their money refunded. I, when owning my own repair shop, I gladly have written a check or two for ineffective repairs in which one of my techs said "all fixed". Again this is your job and not your hobby, charge accordingly.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That is good to hear! At your skill level you could charge what ever you feel is fair and people should be ecstatic to know it’s repaired correctly.
Our business gets a bad rep from people are don’t put nearly as much caring and consideration into their work. And they charge WAY more for doing it wrong. Smh
Keep up the great work!
There's a difference between time spent diagnosing and time spent researching and learning. Need to separate those times to be fair to the customer. Honest work = endless supply of satisfied customers.
@@SerenoOunce All part of getting it fixed.
That radio and module brings back memories.
I did design on that radio and module back in 2003. I was assigned to pursue some reported bugs and find the solutions. And I did. And management, including GM management rejected all my solutions as too costly to fix. So nothing ever got done. Truthfully the bugs were very minor and rare so not fixing them was a pretty good decision.
If the radio supports OnStar it usually does not go to sleep for at least 5 minutes because it stays powered up just in case the car dies in a bad situation where the passengers needed rescue via OnStar which happens about once every million years. And it is required to function with battery all the way down to 6V. That stay-powered-up feature drove me nuts on the lab bench when I was trying to debug behaviors when the radio was in sleep mode. I could unplug from the bench supply and then plug back in but the radio would power back up then go into the 5 minute holding pattern again. Sometimes I would have half dozen of those radios on my lab bench at once waiting for sleep mode.
Thanks Ivan. 👍
I rebuilt the rear diff in a 1997 Ford F150 Lightning SVT with a supercharged 5.4 2V and it was a pretty sweet truck. Had to test drive it to the owner's house to pick him up and bring him back to the shop to pay the bill. Nothing but two lane roads around here. Very clean truck.
Extremely interesting thank you Ivan! 😃
Interesting comments in this thread. I'm glad the owner is happy.
Great fix as always Ivan
Just can't believe that draw is down to a mega 7mA. That was a deep, deep diagnosis with no stone left unturned. No wonder customers are coming from far away global proportions to solve their auto problems. Give yourself a clap on the back and celebrate this milestone. 😊
Even back then there was too much electronic options that could fail.Not all new gadgets should be intergrated in vehicles (my personal view point ,the simplier your vehicle is the less problems will occur).Cheers .
Elon Musk lives by the creed of "the best part, is NO part", and streamlines his operations with that in mind. I agree!
I think this is ok. This is simple enough to still reverse engineer or do some easy board repair. Basically impossible with most newer vehicles where first of all everything is potted shut and so vertically integrated that there are parts you won't find on eBay... Or if you do, they are not programmed at all.
I just fixed a Renault dimmer switch which is just a resistor network.. One open resistor 😂
96 Toyota Corolla enters the chat
We can see why you need the vehicle for a couple days for sure! Hard to imagine that so many things were contributing to the drain. Oh well, I guess it’s an old truck, and all the electronics are getting old as well. Beautiful truck, though, hopefully he enjoys it for a long time yet. Another great day I can fix, Ivan!
Job well done Ivan 👏
I would have just tied that rear radio module to another ignition power and then tap the phone charger off of that also, since it's right there. Then you would have kept full function of everything he had in the truck. I don't mind running an aftermarket wire myself. I've done it many times to put amps and subs in cars. You can make it look nice and somewhat factory if you just follow the factory harness and then broadly "stripe wrap" the wire to the harness. but in this case, you likely could have just traced the radio wire to the source and tapped an ignition hot right there at the fuse box. Many vehicles already have a couple "aux" fuse connections built into the interior fuse box that are tied to ignition power....... But I guess I understand, it's all a matter of what the customer wants to pay for.
How would doing what you suggest stop the parasitic draw since it is the module at fault?
@@JohnSmith-wb6kq
It’s the same as with the HVAC module which is now hooked to ignition. I was saying the same thing about the phone charger. Just put it on ignition. Key off , power off.
@@JB-mn2gu Ahhh soyou meanttied to switched power, now I got it was unsure what ya meant
@@JohnSmith-wb6kq Ya.. Ignition power, switched power, key on power, etc.. I'm not sure what powers that rear radio module-- but there was likely an easy way to swap it to switched power. I'm sure Ivan pitched it to the guy, but he just wanted to cut back on cost. Maybe the guy will do all that himself at home, now that he knows where the issue is.
just add relay's powered by an ignition controlled source to switch all of the circuits causing issues.
I would have switched the console charger to ignition switched power too. That’s just my opinion. Great job I really enjoy your videos.
Awesome fix, Ivan! I hope you waited until you were off the bike to post this for us! :D
My friend had a quadro steer went around an exit at 80 mph ! Impressive !
As always nice job. Simplifying rarely used vehicles is the way to go. The only problem I see with the "freedom" repair job is a lot of vehicles run the blend doors through their range of motion at each hard reset. This could wear them out faster.
truck not a daily driver used 2 or 3 times a month
In part 1 you swore No Russian Hacks, But I understand as long as the customer approves, LoL
Hi Ivan, great detective work to find all the problems. One thing would annoy me , that drivers door sounds horrible when you shut it, as though the window glass is shaking about inside the door , yuck!! Many thanks from Nr Liverpool UK.
For the phone charger, you could find the wire for the rear radio that is on only in "run," to power it. Then he could keep it and there's no danger of parasitic draw. It draws very little current.
Awesome. Thanks Ivan!
That's a cool tool picks up the warm parts
It's almost three hundred.. plus you have to already have a phone.
Great job! Your fix on the hvac module worked great on this truck and the Dodge also. I was hoping you would take it out for a test ride and punch it a couple of times!! haha!
You can wire the charger and the rear stereo to an ignition switched output. Along with the trailer control module could be ignition switched
Youa are correct. The charger was wired to the rear power socket. Which is probably constant battery power. So it needs to be wired to an ignition switched battery power.
Great video!
All of that aftermath garbage is the problem!
I thought you said the customer love's his truck?!!
Nice work!!!
strong work,, sometimes you just have to spend some time with vehicles.. untangling all of the add on junk, and figuring out factory shortcomings. more often than not, its the customer add ons that cause the problems.. also that brake controller wired to constant power is the next thing thats going to cause him headaches.
IVAN! That was amazing!! Love watching you show these vehicles who's in charge! Calm under pressure, is one of your Super Powers, and you bring it everyday! Thank you, for helping your clients enjoy their vehicles! KUDOS! 👍👏👏👏🦾🦾🦾
In the 91 GM 2500 and 3500 pickups the HVAC module would kill the battery overnight.......intermittently. the fix was a GM reman module. Get this. The cost for the reman module was about $70.00. The core charge was over $100.00! Go figure!
Checking for module problems I would connect an adapter that would allow the engine to be started.
To check for the drain I put my 10A DMM across the adapter then did this with the ign switch. On-Off-On-Off-On-Off then remove the heavy connection allowing current through my meter. The On-Off 3 times was something I learned from Chrysler Diagnostics back then. It still works today. The intermittent would show itself most times. Sometimes a second On-Off 3 times sequence was needed. HTH.
Why not also swap constant power for the rear audio controller to ign power? Wouldn't that also remove the parasitic draw, but maintain the functionality of the rear audio controls?
Good point!
Sure but there was no convenient ignition power source in the rear console 😄
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That makes sense. If it were my vehicle, I would do the charging pad and rear audio module to be powered on (if) ign power = on, but if I had to charge someone labor for that, it could be expensive.
AWESOME AS ALWAYS BROTHER ALWAYS LEARN SOME THING FROM UR VIDEOS THANKS FOR SHARING. CHEEEERS
I enjoyed these 2 vids Ivan, shoulda done a wee segment showing test drive acceleration haha
👍👍 The owner must be a patient person to put up with that for 20 years. I'm glad you were able to find such a simple fix.
Rear audio control module that needs constant battery power?!? That I did not consider when I was trying to figure this out after seeing part one. It's crazy. Why this thing needs constant battery power? Why it needs to be a module, anyway? There is (or should be) a perfectly good F/R fader control in the head unit.
So, the charger pad was also a draw. Not so bad as I expected with metal in it but still considerable if this truck sits for weeks at a time.
Perfectly good fix on the hvac module. Nice job.
Th RACM is on constant power as part of the Key Off delay circuitry. Module needed both to switch to headphones and for separate volume adjustment.
You have to give cars at least 1 hour for them to go to sleep. A Ford had chasing my tail because I didn't wait long enough and ended up being the battery going bad from the customer complaint with a no crank issue and said they had replaced the battery not long ago. During my initial diagnosis, the smart fuse box was not going to sleep and I condemned it too soon. After replacing it, same problem. Then by accident I waited a longer time when I went to do something else and he draw was down to 15mV.
Great and thorough as always! I wonder if you did a search online about the hvac module in case it had a tsb? Especially since a complete reset, pulling the fuse, brought the draw down to presumably the normal sleep draw.
Recap - first tool to use with any parasitic draw ... the thermal camera on your phone!
That could have saved all the effort of Part 1.
I like the wiring fix to cut the permanent battery feed to an off/on supply linked to the ignition key.
except it was an intermittent problem and wasn't present in part one. Thermal wouldn't have seen anything then.
Great videos Ivan, I have been in the trade for over 50 years and still learning especially from your videos.
"The owner is totally cool with that" - nice ac pun there Ivan. :p
Had a 2017 1500 4x4 that came from the east to cali with a huge draw and a fuel problem. The fuel module above the spare tire had the green crusties and the 100 amp + draw was the block heater. After popping the fuse in my meter I got out my big scanner to use as a meter as it goes to like 150 amp and it turned out to be a shorted block heater. The fuse was 120 amp in the fuse block on top of battery. I unplug the heater and there is still a mild draw which ended up being the Tcm that is built into the trans pan on the 6 or 8speed.
These parasitic draws take lot of time to diagnose and working hours are always pain for customers 😒 for them it should be 1 hour magical job😂..great work sir.cheers
Ivan, could you not have powered the Wireless charging pad from keyed power off the RSA? This would kill the pad when the key is off, but maintain functionality for the owner.
Great job tracing down these parasitic draws. 0.007mA is a fantastic result. Patience and due diligence gets results every time!
Nice job Ivan --- Go Chevy Thunder...lol
i had a 2003 quadersteer and gm told me it's normal and just turn off the h vac controller. they didn't realize i was a mechanic too and they were feeding me a line of crap i drove mine every day so no big deal. just when i went on vacation to the Poconos race for a week i came back to a dead battery but i kept it for four years putting close to 200,000 miles on it and still sold it back on a trade-in for 15,000
Awesome video as always!, Couldn’t you wire the cell phone charger and brake controller to ignition power ?
WOW, that was a proper whodunnit, you did it!!!!
use a relay to make/break the comms wire. by using a relay that is controlled by key switch ignition, you can make&break the devices communication wire and now you have the best of both worlds, best battery condition for long time and save presets memory.
The HVAC CCM draw is actually a common issue for that generation of GM. For both OE and Dorman. Bad software design that was never corrected.
Though there is also a bidirectional calibration procedure for the vent actuators. Only takes a min to run so worth a shot.
Nice job Ivan! You nailed it.
he should have put a disconnect on the battery/s 20 years ago :) Old co-worker had a similar issue with his RV. His had a switch mounted under the dash under his brake controller, but many just leave it near the battery. in this case, the drain occurs in a few days so a switch isn't convenient if you are actually using the vehicle, in my co-workers case, it went dead in 1-2 weeks..
All things considered that was the hell of a job.😅😅😅😅😅😅🎉🎉🎉
those GM HVAC modules may be all makes are problems waiting to occur
I thought it was notable that the full-time power feed to the HVAC controller was through a 10A fuse - seems like they intended this to do more than just hold up some SRAM while the ignition is off.
Yes that's the main power feed for the blend doors etc 👍
Wow, that's quite a few parasitic draws!! But can't you write the wireless charger to ignition fed power instead of hot all times? Overall great video is fixing all the issues!! Great job Ivan
your logger is nice , i use my snap-on blue tooth vom and record data with my ipad of phone a lab scope ,got to love aftermarket install to any power lines lol
Another neat diagnosis!!! But wouldn’t it be easier to use z current clamp meter at first instead of disconnecting the battery cables??
What a hack job in the fuse box. Could’ve used one of those mini fuse jumpers with the wire made on it, would look much cleaner and have a better connection
Better than a pic for the customer is a link to your video :)
Awww, Ivan, I wanted to see you tear that rear seat audio control apart and do a component level repair on it!
As someone who helped develop aftermarket audio components, during the 2000's, and doing a lot of research on all kinds of vehicles, with GM trucks and SUVs the 45MA draw after an hour or is actually quite common. The RSA has a lot of failure, and replacing the HVAC module with a brand new one may not fix the issue. They were also a pain in the a**.
He’s gotta get the right rear stereo module! It’s beautiful
Parasitic logger? That sounds cool
Great fix, could you have put the charger and rear audio unit on switched ignition power also so they only ran with the key on, do you think that would have worked?
Based on the owner stating that the truck can sit for up to a month with no use, an alternative to your last workaround (changing the HVAC controller to ign power from batt power) could have been a battery cut-off switch of some type. The drawback to this choice is that flipping the switch would be a manual action by the owner, and as all of us do on occasion, if he forgets to flip the switch, after an extended period of non-use, he'll have the same dead battery situation.
That was definitely a good one i really want to know how much time you spent and what you charged the customer.
Everything I've been reading about these HVAC controllers for the GM's120 ma seems normal but not going to sleep isl a tough one, also shows power going to various HVAC doors
120mA long term draw is definitely broken haha
Actually 70mA for the CCM is the 'norm'. Should still be 0 though
I always put chargers and brake controllers on a relay with activation from key on and either engine running or key on only. Could do the same thing to power to the hvac module
That’s exactly what he did.
Lucky it showed up
Just let the customer know that on these trucks when the hvac loses power and then regains it and you see it go to 74 degrees you have to let it cycle for about 2 minutes while it cycles all the blend door operations. Then the procedure is to turn the key off for 10 seconds and then restart vehicle and use as normal. Otherwise if you just get in and start immediately messing with the controls you will have issues like heat coming from one side of the vents and cold air coming from the other side.
21:55 You can connect that wireless charger on ACC to be powered.