Customer is Tired of this PARASITIC DRAW!! (Toyota Avalon)
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- This 2002 Toyota Avalon keeps draining the battery if it sits for more than a few days.
Owner is ready to put a kill switch on the battery.
He wants the problem diagnosed, and if possible repaired if it doesn't break the bank.
Let's follow the logical approach and see what the culprit is.
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Enjoy!
Ivan
Superb trouble shooting and solution, and I am an EE who missed the problem. I thought I had it beaten when I found the plastic button on the brake pedal missing so the brake lights were always on. Keep up the great work and good luck!
That's a outstanding solution to the problem without costing the client a lot of money.
I love that you used voltage drop testing across the fuses. So many techs just start by pulling fuses like crazy, and of course, make their diagnosing much harder.
Man Ivan I'll tell you what the first time I drove an Avalon of that vintage, I was at a loss for words!
That is the smoothest quietest most refined vehicle I had ever driven!
No American manufacturer had anything that could even come close to competing!
Lexus was on a whole different level entirely!
I have a 92 Camry/Lexus in my "fleet"that is still solid after thirty years and over 375,000 miles."Grossly over - engineered" according to Edmund's
The Japanese vehicles about forty years ago caused American manufacturers to step up their game.
This car was made in Kentucky and is more of a domestic car than most big 3 equivalents. Avalons are great and most Toyotas are well made but I have to say that they can all be a major pain in the ass to work on. "The Toyota will fuck you" is a common phrase at my shop.
@@JPAutoService try a Honda..the worst
They don't call them "baby Lexus" for nothing. Mine is a gem.
I'm no mechanic (hvac guy), but i love see your videos. Great for learning.
Parasitic draws are always interesting (when not evolving to time consuming nightmares). That was the only reasonable solution, to avoid an expensive repair. Well done :-)
009⁹⁹990000000
Too bad 17 yrs is considered their life span! I still drive a 92 Tercel that works great! no frill's but VERY cheap to drive.
@@garyalford9394 Planed obsolescence. Everything must last less and less, for the profit of manufacturers. In the EU, annual inspections and increasingly stringent legislation, have the main purpose of making older cars too expensive to pass.
I can’t say enough how thoroughly you showed this. It was a troublesome issue on my ex mother on law’s car . Son and I are fixing it , he’s 18 and will know how to deal with these things.
It's so cool to watch you track down these electrical problems and you are a great teacher, thank you Ivan.
I've done this conversion a few times, usually incorporating a relay to keep all the fuse and wiring loads as close to original as possible. Definitely a money saver compared to the alternatives and minor loss of some functions is tolerable mostly. I admit to being thrifty but my girlfriend says I'm cheap!
yes, unfortunately radios are supposed to have some sort of memory in order to keep settings saved. I had to do this on a 16 Chrysler 300 because the radio was consuming a lot of power. I tapped into the cigar wire to activate a relay on accessory but quickly learned that the radio would not recognize the car in accessory mode, only in the run "full power mode" and of course that loads all electrical so, that would be the only downfall when doing this type of modification. For newer cars, it is hard to find power on accessory modes as most modules are full power and ground and are on standby, what makes them up is com lines which sucks if you are trying to tap into an ignition wire, there is no such thing in these newer cars, not even at the push to start button, it is always constant power and ground, the com lines is what sends out the signals, it is crazy.
I did the same on my 03 transit connect, i wired an ign live activated relay to the dash live, i lost trip and time memory on the dash but thankfully kept the radio presets 👍
@@scientist100 Yes I knew a older fellow who installed snow plows etc on trucks who quit doing it because he said the newer vehicle electronics have got to hard to deal with!
Dear Abby might have a few words for your girlfriend...cheap is good.
@@haroldwilkes6608 frugal is good, cheap is not
Great video. I'd heard of voltage drop testing but didn't know how it worked - now I do. Thanks Ivan 🙂
Had a brother who was a parasitic draw. Never stopped asking for money
😂
You need to bypass him with a permanent jumper
First time to learn voltage drop testing on fuses. So simple, yet did not know. Thanks!
Excellent video. I have a lot of respect for your troubleshooting skills as well as your ability to do workarounds.
Man, not even one squirt of WD40 :(
Love the idea of checking it after accessory cycle and then after ignition cycle. 90% sure I would not have done that unless by accident. That made narrowing it down way easier. I would have been down the path of finding the three separate power feeds to each item then seeing which one was the consumer. Did you by chance discover the accessory trick by accident of was it part of your thought process once you see what was attached to the 30 amp fuse?
Hey Eric! Thanks for the comment man! I figured if the radio turns on in ACC then if the draw came back it would be the radio... But only came back after an ON cycle so must be the fancy-pants multi display 😉
Do you mean Brake Kleen? Oh, wait that’s SMA. My bad.
Sma, pine hollow, scanner danner, diagnose Dan and etcg are all the best CZcams has to offer.
@@Ismail-1983 south main auto repair
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Since that was an always hot power feed that kept the radio presets. I wonder if the emissions monitors also reset now since the fuse also feed part of the ecu?
Great video Ivan, you have the best diagnostic skills, I am so impressed with your solution to keep the customer happy without spending a fortune.
Bussman I believe makes an add-a-circuit mini fuse adapter that I've used before for creating your fix.
So timely! Just yesterday, I was chasing a 175mA parasitic draw on a 2000 Ranger. Narrowed it down to the GEM. Doing this in the driveway when thunderstorms rolled in, so went no further. The truck was needed ASAP, so a kill switch was installed as a temp solution. My first guess is the fault is in the cluster because the oil pressure gauge needle goes all the way backwards where it hits the stop. But could be wrong. Your fix is not just food for thought, but a full 5 course meal!!!
Great video and well explained. Measuring voltage drop across fuse blades without restarting the power down process is a quick and simple way to diagnose.
I'm sure this guy will be aware of these things, but Auto Fuse Tap adaptors are great for stealing power from another fuse circuit and creating another separately fused feed. Ideal for this workaround.
It's nice that Toyota labels their fuse boxes unlike some others. I have seen a few of these with a small draw from the radio. Nice work around as usual!
Excellent diagnosis again! Thanks again for another great video! I'm learning a lot about electrical and electronic problems, really appreciate all of your expertise.
the DC CUT fuse is also referred to as DCC fuse. This is a fuse that shuts down power to the entire car. It is used when transporting the vehicle to keep the battery from discharging.
Short pin
That's nice design
I wish you would be a teacher like ScannerDanner and film the instruction like he does. You would be perfect for the job. I'm 71 and would attend both classes but different nights. LOL
ScannerDanner gives 5 mins of worthy information in 45 mins, wastes too much time.
@@akhtarkh the opposite is Keith DeFazio... Gives 45 minutes of information in 5 minutes 👌🤣
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics now I can't argue with Ivan. I concur.
I have this exact problem on a 2001 Lincoln LS V8 Sport with 77,000 miles. Intermittent draw that drains the battery in about 2 to 3 weeks. Next time you are in the Los Angeles area Ivan, you can help me with a diagnosis. Drives me crazy. It also has an ABS module that you can fix...likely a solder job as the light is on the dash all the time.
If you ever get up to the Bay Area I could fix it for you.
next time? he's never been to Los Angeles
The art of practical solutions ...😊
Great job, I never realized such a work around was possible. I really enjoy your videos!
This guy really is good. He explains what he is doing and lets you see it. Thanks for sharing. That is the only time the drain was explained (And) the solution clearly explained.
We just fixed my son's Avalon based on this video. Thanks! We did use an add-a-circuit fuse tap and a 5 position lever nut because all 3 circuits (dome, radio, ECCB) had high parasitic draw. Had to make sure to pick the correct connection point (top or bottom of the fuse connection) to connect to the source & loads. We used the accessory 1 fuse for the source. Also, we didn't have much luck with the "millivolts across the fuse" with our cheap harbor freight meter, but it seemed to work fine with regular ammeter readings on the 5A range. Thanks, again, I'll leave a tip as well :-) On a side note, oddly, we had previously also replaced the ignition switch (the actual electrical switch in the dash) because of another electrical draw, apparently a 'bridge' circuit in the switch itself.
I had this problem in a 16 year old honda. The battery kill switch is not a good idea if your vehicle is subject to Smog tests, it resets the main computer each time you use it. Your bypass solution will work. Great Job Ivan!!👍👍👍👍
Definitely learned more about the process of thinking electrically. Thanks 🙏
2:30 I never thought of that 🤯. That will help on newer Fords that turn on the lights when you install the ground cable. Thanks for the tip Ivan 👍👍👍👍👍👍
I have both solenoids coming by mail. I'm stoked because I found a 2000 avalon for 500 bucks. Did the alternator and will be doing the solenoids. Such an easy fix!
I appreciate this video very much. I have an 01 Avalon with the same issue, but it was drawing 1A. With your help I just went to the radio fuse and pulled it. Should be able to get through the winter now and a lot cheaper than buying an alternator and battery, hoping it would fix it. (I had that conversation with my wife regarding buying parts and hoping they will fix the issue vs finding out what is actually wrong.)
Radio just spewing out garbage anyway. 😂
Ivan, your simple Logical approach is basically what i owe to possess!!.. 😊
I love emm❤️
Decent job,
Thank you, Ivan! Many of us have older vehicles that are just not cost effective to spend hundreds to repair things like this "correctly". Nice solution that I will not soon forget 🙂
Astra had parasitic draw from radio too. We disconnected the 12v battery and removed the radio from the car for 30 minutes. Reinstalled radio and problems disappeared. I think the radio either needed a hard reset or the wiring harness needed to be reseated.
I’m surprised you didn’t blow the fuse in the meter when you opened the door and turned the ignition on with the meter still hooked up that way. I really enjoy your videos and bought the meter and the amp clamp off your Amazon acct. Thanks for the info and deals on diag equipment
I've done that with 2 way radio systems that have intermittent on times and won't shut down. Radio shop said no problem and it was once I put the battery wire and the ign wire to the ign circuit. Like your vehicle, the memory required an input to function and being an easy input the supervisor opted for that. No more dead battery. Life is good again!
Good fix Ivan!
1982 Chevy truck with parasitic draw - I think it's the analog clock with a ticking second hand. Solved the problem with a $15 Harbor Freight solar panel suctioned to the dash and plugged into the cigarette lighter. Trucks sits unused for months and fires right up.
Nice!
For the unavailable year issue, set the year for 2005. It has the same calendar as 2022.
Interesting
Neat!
Thank you for that info. My 2001 avalon has the correct date as long as i dont forget what year it is. HaHa. Thanks again.
Great tip!
Did not see this in my notification feed!! Until now! Wow. Almost missed this. Well that was great work around fix, so glad costumer approved the repair! So simple to find the draw! I learned few things along the way!! Great job Ivan!
As always great diagnostics and repair. At first I was thinking it may have a similar solder bleed issue like the GM 2003-2007 trucks had,but if it did you could not get it to go away by pulling the fuse and reinstalling it. I would have fixed it the same way.Those old Avalon’s are tanks they’ll run forever with basic maintenance.
Ivan, it's nice to see you working on a really nice car. Love your logic working your way through the electrical system. Great solution. Thanks for Sharing!
Well done! Saved the customer plenty I'm sure, that is if you can even find a new part without the same issue. 💰
That was a good solution to the customer's problem. Great car with silly extras causing problems. Nice Job Ivan.
So cool how you read these schematics so easily, great work!!
I had to hot wire the 4wd on a 2002 Tahoe while I waited for a new transfer case shift module which I fried before finding the missing ground, replacing it and repairing the burned out MOSFET in the module and it worked great all by itself after that.
I love solutions like this, they're creative and they make sense....especially financially
We had the same problem with a 2006 XLE V6 Camry. If we let the car sit for more than a week, it needed to be jumped. We replaced the battery 3X and still had the issue. We ended up giving the car to a family member that uses the car every day, so it doesn't require a jump. I wonder if it had the exact same issue.
This vintage Toyota deserves a better fix. Usually, the ACC feed gets cut during cranking and comes back when back in ON. Proper fix is to buy or DIY a delayed-off relay of a couple of minutes. Relay input can come from several sources: dome lamp door switch, ACC and IGN/ON, using diodes. The cluster electronics will start initializing when user opens a door, so it will be ready for action as user powers up and cranks the vehicle. And the draw will be cut after a couple of minutes after power-down.
And of course, the circuit needs to be split in two, so the radio can have a hot at all times feed again for the station preset memory.
I jaut bought my car in med September of this year and I have the exact same problem in my 2000 avalon xls w/86k odo. The only exception is that the radio doesn't turn on ( it has come on before, but it's very very rare), so I've replace the battery recently that has a date stamp of Aug/23, with a new battery thinking a bad battery!!! It's my daily driver and when I didn't use it for a whole day or two my battery went completely dead, I mean, no dome lights when you open the door dead.
Thanks, man. I've got yourself a new sub😃
Amazing parasitic draw video. I love the basic tip of not lifting the negative cable all the way up when hooking up the DVOM in series.
Well done! Using logic to diagnose a strange power draw!
You can get temp. fuse taps just for that purpose. No soldering needed and can be reused.
Search for "fuse tap adapter" will bring in the part mentioned. And add some additional elegance. Building a nice house for the mouse.
I seem to have a parasitic draw on my car, but everytime I hook up an inline amp meter I end up disconnecting the battery. When everything is asleep it drops down to 0.01 amps. I gotta try the ignition cycle now to see if I can catch it that way. Never occurred to me that the battery disconnect could be putting everything to sleep properly.
My 2003 Avalon's multi display ranges from 2002-2021. Currently I have it set for the year 2006 so the day/date and day of the week correctly match up in sync with today's actual date and current weekday. This was a helpful video, thanks. I will be running a similar test on mine (currently has a high current draw drain) as soon as I'm free.
I have a CM 70 just like yours. Its a very old unit but I still use it.
Using an Add A Circuit/Fuse might have been an easier fix (but would have required you to already have one in the correct fuse size). Great fix, but I was hoping for a direct repair to the Multi display, but not every video can be an electrical component repair.
An Add-A-Circuit would definitely be the right solution here. This would allow you to maintain the existing cigarette lighter fuse while adding an additional dedicated fuse to the patched-over circuit to the cluster. It would also avoid the soldered fuse kludge.
Seeing as the customer opted to have the "cheap & dirty" fix (just terminology from my days as a precision sheet metal mech.😆) you couldn't have done it easier and it's fused! Great fix, Ivan! 👍
I used to work on military aircraft back in the 70s, no computer assistance but lots of paper wiring diagrams. Frankly the cars of today look way more complicated than the planes of yesterday. But, having said that my money was on you finding the power wire for the Avalon's CD changer and just cutting it which could have left everything else running without the vampire draw. By the way some older Toyotas have little map lights in the rearview mirror housing, the cheap switches go bad after a few years keeping the bulbs on 24/7, which you can only see at night. EZ NPR fix.. take out the tiny bulbs.
I’m happy that I can watch your Chanel and actually learn something. Thank you!
Simple enough to be classified under ‘no parts required’. Nothing wrong with that fix at all!! Of course we all have different opinions… seeing how the I/M actually works without the power feed. I would have personally just disconnected the constant power feed wire to the I/M and left the fuses alone. The only bonus would be the radio presets would stay. However it may have taken a little more time finding that feed wire on the connector. Regardless, anything is better than replacing the entire cluster! 👍 Great job, Ivan!
I learned a lot from this video. Thank you!
Awesome video! I rarely work on cars any older than 2012, the current draw with ignition on is higher on newer cars that have more modules and sensors. I found this out when a friend of mine in work was using my brand new multimeter and cycled the ignition with my meter connect in series to the battery negative cable and post. He blew the 10amp fuse and I hadn't even had chance to use it yet 😂 Just a warning to anybody out there who works on newer vehicles.
Nice touch using the auxiliary power 👌
Very thorough and logical exercise in fault finding. I think a better solution would have been to isolate the power line to the multi display and take that back to the cigarette lighter fuse. Yes it might have been a bit of mucking around under the dash but at least the customer would still have his radio presets. Of course more labour = more cost so I’m guessing that was the customer’s choice.
Nice fix for what the customer will allow. I do wonder if the additional amps on that circuit will blow the lighter fuse or overheat the wiring or connectors. Another way to approach this is to remove the radio fuse and put in a loop circuit with a fuseholder and switch inline. Then you would just manually turn on the switch. Downside is you could forget to turn it off. Maybe an illuminated switch is best. Good job thinking your way thru this puzzle. I'm retired now but those were the kind of problems I loved to jump into.
My father had a Cadillac that constantly drained the battery.
The problem after a few dealerships was the interior hood light switch was stuck on.
A mechanic noticed it while leaving in the evening and noticed a light on under the hood
Switch replaced and problem solved.
I was in the marine repair industry for 25 years. When they started to put memory radios in boats it sucked. Boats were not used for three to five weeks. Would tell them you can't have it both ways. Either put a batt disconnect in or put the radio on a power switch.
Great explanation and make shift repair based on customer need. About as close to a NPR repair as you can get….
I hope you leave a treasure map in the glove box with reasons why that was done. I 100% dig that you did what the customer wanted. I do the same in my trade. But I ALWAYS leave bread crumbs to help the next guy.
Interesting workaround. Certainly would be interesting to see what's causing the parasitic current draw at the display panel, maybe some component is fried or green crusties, but I guess it's not economical to tear the dashboard just for curiosity :P
Funny that year thing, I have 2003 Philips VHS VCR, which doesn't recognize further than 2017 year :D Otherwise it still works just fine.
I'm 79 and don't recognize anything after the 60s.
Fluid changes and parasitic draw tests - my favorite!
Another great electrical diagnostic video by PHAD. Thank you
My mechanic with 45 years experience changed my friends cabin filter in a 2005 mazda 3, he had to unhook her battery to change filter, then mazda cut out at stop lights and her electrical system went crazy but would start working again for awhile then revert, her car ran terrible. My mechanic did not admit to fault. She took to another mechanic with 40 years exp. and it took him a month to find problem. Lots of frustration.
IVAN! YOU BOOED TOYOTA! Scotty Kilmer isn't going to like that! (Yeah, he calls them out as well from time to time, lol.) I would be willing to bet someone from the local Toyota dealership will see this and cancel your account. I'll bet you won't be able to go to sleep at night until your head hits the pillow. I feel I have no choice but to continue watching your channel. As far as that comment about Fords taking a long time to go to sleep, my car is almost 30 years old and the air suspension compressor will run for up to 59 minutes after the ignition key is cycled. I bought that car almost new and had owned it for years before I realized that was going on. Great video!
Very good diagnostic plan and execution. As to the fix, although we can see it works under at least one situation, I would just like to mention that a Potential 15 Amp (Theoretical) load has been added to the ACC output of the Ignition Switch, which already has a Potential (Theoretical) load of 45 Amps total. So this Theoretical load is now 60 Amps instead of 45 Amps. This is something to think about when doing something like this. Can the Ignition Switch ACC output contacts handle 60 Amps would be a question here (again, Theoretical), or measured actual maximum with and without the extra load of the Radio and Multi Function Display. At least one (1) of these loads looks to be a power outlet, so it is a variable load depending on what is plugged into it, up to 15 Amps. This is NOT any criticism, just suggestion/information.
You could, using an Amp clamp, measure the total load on the Ignition Switch ACC with everything on to see what the actual total real load is (with & without the extra load, if you wanted to). This would be, I think, good to know, just in case the load is now at or close to the maximum the Ignition Switch ACC contacts can handle (were designed for) without getting damaged (too hot), under full load conditions. This is adding about 30% more load to these contacts, but of course they may be designed with some extra margin.
Again, great diagnostic, and very well done.
@T.J. Kong Yes, you could use a MOSFET. You could also just use a typical automotive Relay, if it were necessary. There are issues with each method, such as size, protecting Leads, etc. First step, I think, would be to measure the current under maximum load and see if a solution like either of these, or some other, would be needed. The Ignition Switch ACC may be able to supply the maximum real load and thus neither of these would be necessary.
Additional practical current is well under 10 amps, and only if you're blasting the music with the amp doing work 🙂
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That is good, and I am not at all surprised, as my last statement above (to @T.J.Kong) stated (last sentence). My overall statement was meant to be a general statement that the additional current added to something, like the Ignition Switch ACC contacts, should be considered. Looks like you did just that. Great job, and thanks for your reply.
@A. Melbs First, I would like to say i would be glad to try and answer your two (2) questions. I do not, however, want to tie up Ivan's channel with this side subject. Also, the best solution to any problem is to find and fix, or if a component is bad replace, the issue/component to eliminate the root cause of the issue. Finding the root cause and fixing it is always the best solution, but is not always a prudent solution, usually due to cost. The root cause of this issue is still present. Depending on what exactly is the cause (such as silver migration on the back of the Cluster which will keep expanding, due to Lead Free Solder), it may get worse and cause other issues, or it may not. We do not know. I am not saying this is the root cause, it is only an example (mostly on GM's I think), and who ever makes the Cluster for Toyota may not have this particular issue as they may have mitigated it by modifying their soldering profile for the Cluster PCB. The root cause could also be something else, and could be in the digital portion of the Multi-Function Display. Again, we do not know what exactly the root cause is, or it's affects, if any, in the future.
Note: For more information on silver migration, see Eric O's channel " South Main Auto Repair LLC", who is an exceptional diagnostician, mechanic with decades of experience, who is also very good at making videos. Search for video - "Chevrolet Truck - Battery Dies Overnight - Part II". I would suggest you watch Part 1 as well. He has made a comment to this video just below ours.
Question1: In automobiles I would say that a standard automotive relay be used. A place where it would physically fit would have to be found, and at least 4 wires would have to be run, with a fuse in at least one of them. These relays are pretty small and are used all over automobiles both outside under the hood and elsewhere as well as inside. The extra load added would be only in the mAs area with this solution, so should not be an issue. This is the big advantage of relays. They use a small amount of current to control a separate much larger current draw.
Question2: Without knowing exactly what you want to do, it is difficult to answer this question. I would look for a unused fuse, or unused contacts on the Ignition Switch for example (if any), something along those lines for your power in. If using a relay, the load on the control side is very low, so using an existing circuit may not be an issue provided you connect to it properly. You do not want to just twist the wires together, but rather use appropriate connectors and solder connections wherever possible, using heat shrink. Depending on what exactly you are doing, there could be many things to consider, load, how it may affect existing circuits, heat, if outside elements (weather), and others, etc. If you are designing circuits then you would use the "theoretical maximum" for your design (data sheet working maximums), but in cases like this measuring or calculating the actual maximum load and adding some margin (say 10-15%) would probably be acceptable.
I hope this response to your questions are helpful.
Surely fuses in line are not additive. 45 + 15 does not equal a max load of 60. A chain is as strong as it's weakest link. The 45A fuse will still blow at 45A, regardless of what size fuse you put further down the line.
Great work isolating the culprit. Rather than jumping it to the cigarette lighter power fuse (which might seriously throw off future troubleshooting, could an alternative solution have been for the owner to just cycle the key to ACC position before leaving the car? LOVE your videos!
Nope constant power needs to be cut 👍
Loved your thorough analysis. Thanks.
Did the same in my 2010 ALtima BCM was 130mah, so a switch to kill interior dome lites did the trick.
@@dizzy2020 yes correct my switch got the 130 down to 50ma which is normal. But it could go 2-3 weeks in FL @130 but battery would be done in a year from to many hard charge cycles.
Might it be possible to reprogram the display?
(me wanting to know what is actually happening)
My take/thought on this is that either the program or the hardware not being able to go to a consecutive year after 20XX(17)is MAKING the MPU stay awake as the program is waiting for an "If this then that" (ifttt) and was designed to STOP at17 but the designer / programmer did NOT allow an escape for the routine. thus placing the MPU in a closed loop awaiting instruction.
try resetting the date to a previous year prior to 2017 and post your results.
I must know this or I wont sleep.
Nice werkaround though.
Yours truly,
The Barefoot Mechanic.
Interesting concept as I stare at my ceiling.
Might find a different year with the same calendar days and fix all of it except the actual year number.? With the exception of leap years I believe numbers and days repeat roughly every 6 to 14 years.?
0.2 amps, times 12 volts equals 2.4 watts draw. The multi display is not visibly ON. My guess is this is some mechanical thing inside the radio, perhaps a CD stuck inside, always spinning. The mechanic said that he heard the radio doing something at one point. Put a switch on the power line to the radio, or replace the radio. The guy did good problem solving, he just had to go one more step and cut the power wire to the radio to isolate the problem.
@@markwadkins7758 That was my solution, did the same on a GPS. Who cares what year it is as long as the day is right. As I'm retired, I don't, I have a phone for that.
Great work around solution and save a lot of money, only thing i would add if i was doing as a diy is maybe get the radio memory wire reroute to power as with aftermarket radios have that wire too to pos batt+.
You’re a genius! Thanks for your time and brain power!
Just replicated it I SEE Thank you I learned something today
Hey Ivan what’s with this cold in our area? It’s awfully late in the year for this crap!!!!even for us here in State college 🥶. Another great video bro very informative
I escaped down South today lol
Great non intrusive fix. Don't blame the customer for wanting to spend crazy $$$ when this gets it done.
Parasitic draw may require a sequence of operation in order to exhibit the problem. If you pull the fuse the problem can go away and not return until you recreate the needed driver sequence again. So, if you identify the problem based on voltage drop, you can then find a convenient place in the vehicle to access the circuit(s) in a harness and then use a clamp meter to confirm and trace the exact source of the parasitic draw. As you said if you allow the battery to be disconnected while hooking up an ammeter you will have to wait for the vehicle to go to sleep (could take 30 to 40 minutes). But more importantly is the problem may go away after the vehicle sleeps, never to return. So before pulling a fuse make sure you have identified the problem.
To diagnose parasitic draw problems I use a DC linear regulated power supply (0-20VDC @ 20 Amps, very electrically quiet 20mV p-p noise full load) with a protection diode pack to put the vehicle on life support (power the vehicle at 13VDC and put a slight charge on the battery). I can leave the battery connected if I am able to monitor the battery current with my clamp meter. It is very frustrating to have the battery die in the middle of troubleshooting the problem, and many times with a parasitic draw problem the battery is very weak to begin with. Although if a high current load turns on the battery and the supply can work together to power the load.
If I can't use my current clamp, I have to resort to the fuse voltage drop method as shown in the video. I use a Fluke 287 DMM which has a higher resolution than the DMM used in the video so I think it is better suited for measuring fuse voltage drop. However, many times, as demonstrated in the video you have to go ignition ON in order to troubleshoot the problem. This is bad because the vehicle may draw more current than the ammeter fuse. One extreme example is an electric cooling fan coming on. You could also have smaller loads like HVAC (fan motor) which may also come on. So, it is best if you can put the vehicle on life support.
It is strange that a module stays awake and otherwise works properly. Based on this behavior I would pull the module and look at the circuitry. It could be that a power down relay is not working, or maybe the power down circuit (MOSFET?) is not working. I think there is a good chance at repairing the module given the nature of the problem.
Clever workaround - the battery kill switch would also lose the date/time and radio presets so this seems like the best option
Such a great video. Maybe the one I been looking for. Thank you so much!
Very nicely done! I learned some new tricks.
Rather find the answer to the problem rather then it be a temporary resolution. If there is a problem, it will get worse. As a tech, this is an insufficient resolution. This will be a comeback unless the guy gets rid of the car before you see it again. Whatever the problem is, it’s still a problem. I would have turned away this t-shoot until the person is ready to repair the issue correctly, or at least willing to pay for the time to find the issue, and do a temporary repair. It already cost him money keeping a battery tender on it, and purchase of the battery tender, purchase of a battery, who knows what else. Yes this is a temporary solution, but to know the issue, and have a cost for the customer, is better then not knowing, and have to charge for further diagnosis and cost the customer more then it would to just repair it to begin with.
I think you are right in many cases. In this case, I don't see a problem. Worse case scenario the module that won't go to sleep, goes bad from constant hard resets and you lose gauges and the info screen. The car will still start and run.
@@_RiseAgainst very true. The vehicle will still run. My thing is, why cause a possible deeper issue with something that already is causing an issue, possibly…? Plus, he doesn’t know if it really is the display unit. Yeah the radio fuse was pulled, but the display still powers up. The cluster still powers up. Only thing that is off is the radio. You are supposed to test everything on that circuit. The multi display could be fine, and the radio function/changer/amp could be staying awake from a shutdown fault with one of the components. Process of elimination with very easy confirmation, he could have pulled the radio, pulled the plug on the radio, and/or pulled the amp power plug, and did the test again one by one, to make fully sure it’s the display and not the radio or something with one of the radio components. Pulling the radio is simple in those cars. Less then 15m. That wouldn’t have been much more time and the customer would be in a safe place to know what component/components to be on the look out for. This is incomplete t-shooting. Ivan knows better then that. The Santa Fe should have been his lesson.
@@mikehonda7934 I did prove that it wasn't the radio or amp... If you were paying attention to the logic 😉
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics no you didn’t. You pulled the radio fuse and it stopped the draw. The display still powers up, only without memory and the radio. How can you say it’s not the radio or something else with confidence, without completely eliminating the radio from the circuit? Obviously the radio and the display share the memory circuit, but only thing you did was kill constant power to two devices on the same circuit. You didn’t eliminate the radio from the issue, you only disabled constant power/memory from both devices at the same time. I get where you were going with it, but to be sure it’s not the radio, it would have been easier to unplug the radio and keep the memory function active then pull the multi display, like you mentioned. I know, it’s a pain in the cheeks to pull the display. Toyota radios fail in the way you showed in the video in abundance with those CD changers. I’ve put plenty of aftermarket radios in them because of the radio changer intermittently not shutting down causing the same draw. Not saying you’re wrong, just saying you could have made a sure answer a lot easier then you thought.
@@mikehonda7934 watch the video again! There was no draw after turning on the radio in ACC position. IT'S NOT THE RADIO! 😅
Another option would have been to install a momentary NC switch in line with that power feed. A quick button press after the key is off, and may be brief enough to allow radio to still keep it's memory.
And don't forget to lock the vehicle if it has security, will go to sleep much faster.
Practical in these situations work a round good job Ivan
I had a car when I was working at Ford that kept draining its battery when it was parked. I ended up disconnecting the battery cable and put a test light between the cable and the battery. Kept pulling fuses until I found the one that turned the test light out. Wouldn’t ya know it was the radio circuit that was the culprit. After replacing the radio the drain went away. Who would have thunk
Happens all the time. Internal shorting, fire hazards. Seen it alot.
What year Ford? That old school test light trick would not work on modern computer cars because modules need to see full B+ voltage to go to sleep properly 😉
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics your right about that Ivan. I’ve seen more then a few computers damaged by loading a circuit too much.
I have a Flir thermal camera. I would think that would be a valuable tool in quickly finding which fuse is drawing current.
I worked on a GM product that the radio display would always stay activated. Guess it thought someone always needed to know what time it was even with the key off and out! Did a similar bypass to make it shut off to fix the parasitic draw!
That's a great work-around, but wouldn't it have been easier to just use a fuse tap? That way you'd only have to attach the correct size spade terminal to plug into the radio fuse connection. Just a thought. Thank you for all the great videos.
Man what a great idea.. I have a Dodge Caliber thats been drivng me crazy with intermit draw issues. The cluster fuse is the issue, long story short, used cluster same issue, and dealing with a lack of funds with my customer. Fuse is hot all the time, gonna steal your idea and make it only hot key on. Should work perfect. We almost put a toggle switch in it, of course the 1st time they forget to turn switch off -- dead battery -- sooo this is a much better fix. Thanks for the idea. Great video. Oh by the way tried a new TIPM as well, same issue.
I had that problem when I bought my 2001 mercedes five years ago. Battery going dead in two days of sitting. I got the dealer to install a different battery. It was not new either and would go dead in a couple days of not being driven. I then got them to give me a brand new large Bosch battery. Same thing so I got my neighbor to test all the fuses for draw. I don't remember the numbers now but two of them were high. I then would pull those fuses whenever I would get home and not planning to drive for a few days. When I took the car to a Mercedes shop for transmission repair, they discovered the trunk light switch was broken leaving both lights on constantly. They charged me $10 for a used switch and $90 to install it. Fixed the draw problem though.
Nice! That's my #1 step in checking for draws...make sure no light bulbs are lit ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I don't know how many times I opened that trunk and didn't notice that switch was broken off. Not very observant of me! Lol
Nice diag. sometimes pulling down ignition power feed by a resistor(1K maybe) can solve this kind of problem
Did you consider adding a small 12 volt solar cell on the rear package shelf as a charger? Judging by the draw, 5-10 watts would be enough to keep the battery charged.
Wouldn't work if it's parked in a dark garage lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics True. I wonder how much a small night light style bulb over the back of the car would charge? Probably not enough I guess. I wonder if the clients garage doors have a window?
Thank you so much for great video and the info you are my life saver my 07 highlander got Fixed 😊 . watchin you from Iraq ❤
The cleanest fix would be: If you could easily get to the back of that interior fuse panel---- and hopefully it was easy to pop out the connectors------ You could have simply swapped those connectors for the display and lighter; Then you could still use all the fuses as normal, and it would have just made the display on swtiched power, and turned the lighter into constant battery power..... But then it would have been hard to trouble shoot for the next guy because everything still looks factory. The fix you left here will at least be obvious for the next guy to see what you did.
One other thing you could have done: Is just make a second jumper with a fuse, and jumped back over to that constant power in the first fuse.... So just criss-cross your jumpers and fuses---- making the fix you wanted, but also putting the lighter back onto the constant battery of the other fuse--- that would have kept you from doing the solder hack on the fuse.......... Oh well, he'll probably never even need to mess with it again for years..
You should be able to just pull those fuse panels with one or two screws and they pop out FORWARD so it's easy to get to the back of them.... It's not like that makes it any easier for a hacker to start the car or something.