Have Never Seen THIS Kill a Battery Before... (Parasitic Ram - Part 2)
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- čas přidán 18. 03. 2023
- I quoted the customer on replacing the broken parasitic HVAC module and he said GO FOR IT!
The Ram throws a curve ball when I try to obtain the correct part...
Looks like a "Russian Hack NPR Repair" may be the most viable option :)
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Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Thank you Ivan for truly caring about the customer. I totally agree about the cost of these modules being so high. Thanks for calling them out on this. Keep up the good work! 👍🏻👍🏻
That data logger is GOLD!
I like the $1000 solder repair. Are RAM products more prone to electrical gremlins. You mentioned it has a new fuse box...that is terrible that it needed replacement. I think that you going out of your way to save a customer money is noble. Your honesty will surely bring you even more business. When people know that you are on their side, they will run to your door.
I'd have to say YES to gremlins in virtually all of their products... Fiat/Dodge and Chrysler!!! Every stinking
one of them!!!
The electrical gremlins made me dump my 06 charger. This was prior to it becoming known that the fuse box was crap in all of these.
@@craigtegeler4677 That is my gut feeling. The worst is the dreaded TIPM.
@@eatdafat7101 I have owned GM/FORD but no Stellantis product. I have had excellent luck with Toyota. Of 4 Toyotas so far, not one electrical problem yet. That goes back to 2004 with our 04 Corolla.
Watch south main auto, Eric O, will show you some more on FCA and GM electrical problems. Gm apparently loves to put modules under the vehicle where they get plenty of water & salt.
As for ford, they decided the main fuse box on the super duty trucks should be pretty much right under where water drains off the hood. It’s covered, but doesn’t feel very “sealed” to me. Time will tell.
Ivan the master troubleshooter who has mercy on the customers $$. Is priceless. Another great fix/ modification. By Ivan this world needs more Ivan’s 👍
Too many owners would just accept being bent over by the dealer. Your logic for the customers approval and satisfaction is quite amazing.
Ivan, nice fix option, however...I believe upon each re-powering of the HVAC module the stepper motor controlled blend doors will be commanded to go through their "recalibration" cycle [full clockwise, full counterclockwise]. I'd be concerned about short life for each blend door motor. Those modules are priced "stupid" expensive for the same reason that healthcare costs are...because they can. :)
Yeah that’s the only issue I see with the module not having battery power. Dodge vehicles are especially picky with hvac actuators and calibration. If one of them fails it’s tries to recalibrate every time you turn it on and it takes about a full minute before the air will start blowing normally. In this case it’s going to have to recalibrate every time regardless. That would be a long minute in this southern heat where I’m at 😂
Thank you Ivan. You are the man for all seasons. Every video you make is like going to a training seminar (or better). You are a straight shooter (even when you make a mistake), you own up to it and carry on. Keep them coming. Good Work! I hope you never tire of it.
Honesty and integrity is very hard to find in people these days if you find someone like Ivan you better take care of them. In the long run no matter what PHAD charges per hour, your going to save money by having it done right. We could all take some good lessons from Ivan on how to treat our customers and simply own our mistakes when we make them.
Great work Ivan ! That's some great diagnostic talent you have. I'm sure the owner is super happy with your work as you saved him a pile money. What a ridiculous amount of money for a very small module, just crazy... You need to be proud of your work as it's very informative to all us watching. Thanks for doing all your videos for us.
Nice job Ivan. Last year I bought a 2001 Buick Park Avenue with 64000 miles, and no rust (California car). Screw the new cars with all the modules.
Fantastic diag Ivan, and a great repair without costing the owner nearly a grand. Nice job. The more I watch these diagnostic videos on modern cars, the more determined I am never to buy a modern car. All these fancy electronics just to give you the privilege of having to take your eyes off the road to look at a fancy screen every time you want to change something simple on your dash. What astounds me is that in many countries, like here in the UK, it's illegal to even glance at your phone whilst driving, yet car manufacturers get away with these fancy screens that often mean you have to scroll through screens just to make simple changes to something. Lol, maybe that is why modern cars have to have things like automatic lane control and collision avoidance! One thing I do know for sure though, we need a lot more guys like you around. Without your skills that truck may never have been diagnosed correctly.
A lot of places in the USA it's illegal to use your phone while driving, but I've seen police using their laptops while driving. SMH
I know calling the customer back to tell him you quoted on the wrong module feels like getting a return on a repair but this stuff happens and it’s inevitable with cars having 30 or more modules in them. He went from a $400 module to a $1000 module to pocket change solder repair plus diag costs. I’m sure he is happy as Hell. I would have chosen the Russian hack repair on the first module quote. Love your vids Ivan. Peace ✌️
Awesome video Ivan. Can fully understand why people don't want to go to the dealer. Case in point I used work for a Chrysler dealer. I had a old mini van come in with no front washers. Traced the problem to the BCM not grounding the washer pump circuit. Spoke with the customer and said hey we can just wire and install a toggle switch on your dash that you flip when you want washers. He loved the idea cheap fix and did the repair. BCM was also close to $1000. Service manager had overheard me got called into the office afterwards and threatened with dismissal for not selling a BCM costing the dealer profit by doing a so called "Mickey Mouse" repair. Needless to say I don't work for them anymore.
Ivan, The reason for Battery power to the module---- When you open or close the doors, the HVAC controller manipulates the Re-circ door to optimize conditions. Trying to keep condensation on the right side of the glass. Remember, condensation is always on the cooler side of the glass. We don't want condensation where we can't remove with the wipers. I realized this when I would get in a 2000s chevrolet and the recirc door would start clacking. It does this with the key off. Just thought this was interesting.
That feature isn't essential. And opening/closing the recirc door when parked wouldn't do much because you need something causing the air to circulate when parked.
People have survived for decades without that.
However on a vehicle with an integrated parking heater it would be useful to power the HVAC module. If the vehicle don't have a parking heater then it wouldn't be needed to have it battery powered.
Wow, the things we had to live without for the last 110 years is just unacceptable....
I remember repairing a GM recirc actuator by rotating the gear inside 180. The drive gear had a fresh set of teeth at rest. The stuff we remember..
Early 2000’s GM recirc doors clack when they sense the presence of people it annoys.
@@Krummin fun fsct 80s and 90s GM vehicles, fully closed recirc doors allowed 7% outside air. Just remember reading that in Service Info.
Ivan you are the best, such compassion for others. If you would do it to your car, I'd do it to mine also!
Good job man, In a similar repair I made the bypass on the circuit board itself and left the wires intact. Stuck a note on the box for next person who might chase something else in the future
As a suggestion, how about using a relay to isolate the comms wire from the network, the relay being operated operated by the ignition (switched 12V) similar to what you have done. That way the module will still be connected to permanent 12V and keep it's memory whilst allowing the car to sleep. (Although granted the faulty module itself will still draw a little current, but a lot less than the whole network was). Don't get me wrong, yours is a great solution and certainly the best for battery life. I 'll bet there's not much wrong with that module either, maybe a shorted diode or capacitor between the permanent and switched 12V rails, so the switched rail is being held on. Probably a 1 dollar part or less causing the issue.
The Battery would probably die in 4 or so days instead of 1 or 2 with a relay installed.
The surface mount capacitors are notorious for failing. You can replace with a through hole electrolytic quite easily. The larger ones is probably the rail caps.
@@NoWr2Run maybe a week...
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics OK, You are the EXPERT, SIR.
@@jimgross5 So are the small ceramic capacitors. They have a tendency to go short, or more bizarrely as I have seen in Michael Dranfields recent TV repair video, can act like a variable diode, which is very strange indeed.
My 1967 F250 has manual cable and sheath for control of heater valve and blend door. It needs some lubricant every decade or so. It needs a shift collar and bushings in the transmission linkage every 50 years or so too. Never fails to start after sitting unused for months. Never stuck in Park either.
Glad that you were able to find and fix the truck! Wonder if a salvage yard would have the module from a wrecked one?
You can bet they know how insanely overpriced OEM is & will be charging accordingly. Also, quite tricky to get the *exact* replacement.
I was thinking the same thing. Probably needs to be programmed in too.
most likely has the same bad internals
@@glasser2819 I tend to doubt this module is a common failure resulting in a dead battery. That would be a factory recall item. A lot of pull-a-part yards around. The headache is getting to the module and making sure it is the correct part #. May have to go through several trucks to find the correct one.
@Ivan, For my "Russian Hack" I would have cut the trace on that pin in the module, and soldered a jumper inside the module, that way only the module is modified, so if someone later wanted to fix it properly, they could just pop a new module in.
Also, I wouldn't dismiss the sun-load sensor as keeping it awake. It's probably connected via LIN, so if it can't talk to it, it keeps trying.
@@Ingineerix I noticed the "packets" the module was putting out didn't look like data, but just regular spikes. Based on that, I don't think it was trying to talk to the sensor. I'm suspecting failing power supply in the module.
@@russellhltn1396 Could be! If you disconnect a CAN node so it's the only one, there is no other device on the bus to acknowledge the frames, so it will transmit the packets over and over again, rapid fire, which will peg the bus at max utilization. Also, without proper termination, the CAN signals will reflect at the end of the line and make a huge amount of noise, making the signal impossible to decode.
@@Ingineerix Take a look at 9:37. That's not packets, but a series of pulses. We're zoomed in enough to see the trailing edge fall time but all we see are spikes. If it was trying to communicate, I'd expect to see pulses of varying widths. At minimum, the module would have to be sending the address of the sensor. I'm not seeing that.
@@russellhltn1396 The sensor is unlikely to be on CAN, it's probably LIN. As I said, without proper termination, you likely will not see proper bit framing, so it's hard to tell what's going on. If it was a power supply issue, I doubt the HVAC would be working well though. I still call a software issue due to loss of LIN.
Lovely fix. I was thinking about a small, socked 12v relay that is triggerd by the switched feed and turns on/off the 'red' wire. That would not require the fuse swap.
It is insane what manufactures can get away with. They get you with the hardware and with the IP software running on the chips.
Hi Ivan, your the same as me, I fix scissorlifts and cherry pickers and refuse to pay the horrendous prices for some parts as I know how much they cost for other applications, people say to me why do it its your customers money! It's just the principle of I don't want to get ripped off so why should I let my customers, it pays Dividends in the end, as they will come back and use you again, and you get a good name for being fair.
I've been watching your parasitic draws with interest as I have to get to the bottom of one on my 2005 motorhome. So just getting my head around how to go about it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, us old farts need as much help as we can get. Regards Richard 🇬🇧
Great job, love the repair!
Watching from Scotland. Dont leave us on a cliffhanger for 24hrs. Love the channel
When I 1st started watching pine hollow. I thought that. Who is this kid, because he looks so young to me and after watching him for a couple of years. Ivan is amazing. I mean you're like a neurological surgeon and those guy's are a lot higher paid. I saw you with Eric o. Recently and he's definitely not a slouch by any means. And by the way scotty spoke highly of you also. This fix was nothing short of a minor miracle and I doubt that very many techs. Could do it. Imo! Saved that customer 1k. Great video and explanation. Not to mention the equipment needed to do it. Just outstanding!!!!
I’m sure there’s a junkyard that has that module for a fraction of the price.
Probably $60 at Harry’s
Killed two parasites with one solder joint. The parasite wanting to drain your battery and the parasite wanting to drain your bank account.
Great work Ivan!
I bought that same module for my 2014 RAM back in 2018 as part of upgrading the radio from the 5" to the 8" screen and it cost less than $300 new from the dealer. We (The forum community) noticed around 2019-2020 that all of the parts we were using to upgrade our trucks (something RAM says can't be done) suddenly went up in price dramatically. And it wasn't all parts, it was specifically the ones we were using for upgrades. RAM does monitor the forums and many of us are convinced it was a deliberate attempt to stop us from upgrading. That HVAC module is not VIN locked, you may be able to get one from a salvage yard if needed.
We used to have a local electronics guy who would fix these modules, over the years his costs to fix was boarder line same as buying a new unit. He retired during covid.
I recently had a issue with a battery tester out of warranty. Its basically a tablet based unit. I brought it to 3 local places and all wanted $90 just to break it open and see whats wrong. All where straight up and said the few problems they believe it could be im getting close to just buying a new one. Which I did.
What's a battery tester?
This is why I love my 1970 Chevy Biscayne, small block, four door, bench seat, limited slip car!! No bullshit runs fine on leadfree regular and I can fix about anything in my driveway including tune up. I don’t drive it everyday but when the other cars break it’s my go to
Didn't you have to replace the valve's for the unleaded gas
Great job Ivan! I’m sure the owner was very pleased, I know I would be. 👍👍🇺🇸
A brilliant fix as always 👍😀😀😀
Ivan watching you is amazing you are truly top notch learning so much from you thank you so much
Totally impressed, I'm speechless awesome video Ivan..
LOVE IT! very good job! you absolutely took the right path to bypass the module. i hope the customer see this video so he can see how much effort u put in to this problem =)
Great Diag and camera work!
Hi Ivan,
Awesome solution for a no parts repair. Stay safe.
Love your diagnostic logic. I am in awe of your knowledge. I am more impressed with your consideration for what the expense will be to your customer. You and Eric O both impress me so much with your customers cost consideration when looking at repairs.
Great job Ivan. Love the hack.
Had a '15 Ram like that with the Ecodiesel plus the air suspension. Never really had any problems with it but every day I became more and more wary of things like this happening. I got a great deal when I bought it very slightly used. I decided to sell it before stuff like this started happening. We have an Excursion with the 7.3 and I decided to go back to that for towing, etc. I do miss the Ram but I'm sure I saved myself headaches like this.
logic wins the day again ivan you inspire me on every video keep up the good work
Thanks my friend. Your customer is a very lucky man to have a tech like you. I HATE this modern crap. My next purchase will be a ground up 60s restoration.
Man, you are a class act! Time to stick it to the dealer! They are making money by selling people stuff they don't need, charging them for the purchase, and then charging for repairs - whether or not they can really repair it. Unfortunately, people don't know what they're buying. And they have to buy what is being sold. My truck has a carburetor!
Ivan always a great job and detailed ...
Good Job Ivan……These issues make me miss the 60’s and 70’s car’s and truck’s. 🤟🏻🤟🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Wow that is pure genius Ivan.
Great fix Ivan!
Really enjoyed that fix nice to get one over on the dealer .
Great hack Ivan! Many can learn from your great work arounds to save $$$.
I am glad it is not the yesr of rhe Ram! Amazing work Ivan,the czar of diagnostics. Thanks, Ivan.
All I can say is “reeemarkable”! What a blessing you are Ivan. You have surely honed your skills
Ivan please don’t talk about sleep! I’m watching from Australia and it’s latish in the night and I’m battling to keep my peepers open🤣🤣 great video so far I’ll make the end for the Russian fix😁😁😊
Yeah same here. Part 2 less gooo
Great work. Dealers would have part swapped until they got to the right module. Thousands of dollars. The only additional thing I would do is measure the running current in the combined circuits.
Thank you Ivan for constantly dishing out high quality diagnosis videos, I’m a huge fan for life. You and other creators have allowed me to up my diagnosis game like never before, I’m truly thankful and wish you guys nothing but the best! #GOAT
Ivan ur the man thanks for being a good guy and great video and description on everything u where doing
this is the most informative electric repair video i've seen so far, and thats coming from a bmw master tech in canada, just not familiar with ram trucks, working on my own vehicle.
Ivan you are a "Go-Getter" when it comes to hunting a parasitic culprit, awesome job my brother 💪🏾👍🏾😊
So glad I have a tradesman model, I see so many issues with more bells and whistles. My Ram long box reg cab hemi 4x4 8speed has basic everything and I’m glad
Hi Ivan, THE MAN wins again!! Many thanks from UK.
What a video. It's a good thing you had your hat on. It kept you from pulling out your hair trying to figure this out. Great Job.
love it as an electronics tech, I once replaced the backlight in my vehicle hvac control panel, a few cents, or new module(panel knobs etc.) over $300
Great job Ivan.
One automotive item (in a whole state or a country at a sky high price !) is sometimes a good indication that mechanics have found an alternate supply source or workaround. lol
Nice repair, saving lots of money. just a suggestion, but next time cut the leg in the box, and make your solder connection in the box. that way you have no cut wires and future replacemet is way easyer.
That's actually a great idea!
With multi layer boards it might not be easy to cut the trace in the box but soldering the pins together is. The other option to avoid cutting the wire is removing the pin from the harness connector.
Generally I don't like cutting circuit board traces but in this case if it's possible it is a great idea.
I like to restore vintage CB radios and some of those have been modified with chopped wires and cut traces.
Brilliant, well done again
I own this same truck, although mine is a 2019 model. So far no issues with battery draw, but I anticipate problems in the future with all these electronic modules.
Thanks Ivan for the heads up and ways to determine the culprit. Added bonus, 72 degrees is quite comfortable during summer or winter😃 Keep the info coming.
Excellent case study and I like the WIFI PARASITIC LOGGER. Really good tool! I can't believe those components are really expensive and I don't think by the look it cost the manufacture a lot of money to be built. I like the repair you advise to the customer I just was thinking if the MIL would come on. Thank you for sharing, Ivan. I am ready for the next one. I always learn something.
Nice job on the step-by-step process. This video shows the difference between a "Parts Changer" and someone that has a brain.....Thanks for a job well done and another satisfied customer that doesn't go broke owning a truck.
Happy customers are becoming your trademark. The king of parasitic draws has done it again 🎉. Nice touch with no stress on anyone. Happy days are here again 😊😊😊.
Just gotta say, I'm glad it took me a while to watch these videos so that I could watch them back to back to avoid your CURS-ED (read as spoken) and well targeted tech nerd cliffhanger torture! 😋
Super cool! I wonder if there was enough room in the connector cavity to de-pin that feed you jumped into and solder right to the crimped terminal and just have it looped... that way you didn't have to strip back the wire and tape it.
I have a 2014 Ram 1500 that won't go to sleep. I have been dealing with it for about 3 years. Spent over 4 G's on it and still have the problem. I have to jump through hoops to get it through annual inspections. I won't take it to a dealership or shop again because I know they can't fix it. Liked your video. I now understand that it is totally illogical to have so many complicated accessories and environmental monitoring devices on a machine that is expected to perform at 100 percent for so long.
Why am I not surprised that it's a Chrysler? Maybe because I own a Jeep (TJ) that at the very least is a product of "planned obsolescence"! Great vid, Ivan! 👍
That's Cool , Work around and Confirmed Solution !
Like that frugal fix, but because of the amperage difference, you could also have used a relay on the ignition feed to trigger the 15 amp constant. 👍👍👍👍
Hey Ivan, the Wizard of Pine Hollow works his magic once again! Waves his magic wand(soldering iron) over the haunted Ram,and once again solves the problem Great repair! Thanks for the video. Have a good day!
You're the man Ivan! 😊
I wonder if someone can diagnose that circuit board and find the fault on it?
Ivan, You picked the right field of automotive repair-great diag and fix. More bells and whistles cause more problems than they are worth. The problem is even base-model vehicles are littered with chips and electronics. I'm considering replacing my 2009 Ford Escape with a 2006 Lexus LX470. Am I nuts?
I'm liking your amp draw logger! Great alternative to the module replacement! Who's to say if you did replace the module, that one wouldn't crap out in 6 months or whatever! Great job!!
I have done that hack many times but I call the Polish bypass..to save customer money... I agree the prices are outrageous ....if I can't find a module in a junkyard for a decent price ...I would do exactly what you did the customer was always happy with the lower price this is a great video ... I also made the same mistake ordering the wrong module...for me it's part of being Polish ...it happens. Miss the work I retired...KEEP THE VIDEOS COMING I LOVE THEM... I feel like I am back in the shop you young guys passed me up with all the new stuff... it's great to watch
I like Ivan's jumpering the wire at the module plug.
Me, I would have spent years trying to do it at the fuse box...😆
Great fix. Imagine what a dealer would charge to diagnose and repair (and guessing that they would be unable to diagnose). This complexity is causing issues for the industry as well. The owner may be able to find the module in a pick and pull or similar and return the wiring to the stock function.
Ivan..
Got my daughter's3/4 ton GMC back together. It's not leaking oil or transmission fluids anymore. Job took 1.5 week. Due to my work schedule.
Then my 01 malibu blew out all of its transmission fluid.
I'm at 1.2 week into the repair. Pulled engine and transmission as a unit. Reinstalled the engine and transmission. About 4 days ago. Then started replacing all of the struts. 🙄.
Discovered bent rear control arms. I was lucky. It was a minor NPR. Job went well. Waiting on front struts to arrive. Rear are done and installed.
All of this on my shade tree cement slab. 😄
After this my brother 2000 truck water pump work.
Then my brother in law Dodge 4x4 front diff job coming up too..
Just like you....customers to help..
Ivan i look forward to how you diagnose a problem in any situation. The problem with newer vehicles is they are so smart they are stupid ! and as for the cost they are just robbing the consumer because they have no clue as to what is actually in these modules.thank you for sharing your insight. When things get as crazy with all these module, it shows the need for these dealers service techs , to get better educated so they know whats going on when they take care of there own line of vehicle, IE ford chevy toyota.
I love it !!
perfect repair!!
Ivan, has been gifted with the patience of a saint, the intellect to rescue even the worst from totally lost causes, and a kind soul 'to boot'. I'll betcha dollars to doughnuts, that he gains far more satisfaction from seeing the bright smiles of his customers, than the greenbacks going into his wallet!
star connectors make test so easy love this bus system. and that they connect right to the DLC so nice
The truth of how that
Bad box was in that truck is not known to
Many owners the
Switch box shell game
Probably great video
Great diagnostics
Great solutions 👍
I appreciate your diagnostic and videography skills. Thank you for another journey in a ridiculous rogue network system. Its extremely valuable to have this level of honest documented repair work! The mfg is treating these modules like its a $900 laptop when it's just a $50 Raspberry PI. My Chevy HVAC position feedback potentiometers need to be cleaned to keep the module from constantly trying to adjust the blend door. Maybe Mr O has an identifix common issue? Your solution is more than likely a lot cheaper than digging deeper into the dash.
That rouge looks good on you, btw...
@@atticstattic thanks its fabragette - fixed
Nice video, diagnosis and repair. It seems to me there would be an opportunity for a company to build custom modules when the manufacturer discontinued making them. It wouldn’t be cheap, but a vehicle that might be unusable is worthless as well.
Great video. I often find the least cost on oem Mopar parts online at MoPar parts giant. These modules are marked way up at most dealerships.
Excellent diag & troubleshooting skills demonstrated on this over engineered Pos design.....Once pointed to that Module, Too bad you didn't Stay on track & kept Module energized & Open up the various Sensor Input & Reporting wire leads to Maybe Isolating a Possibly Defective sensor Causing a Good Module to malfunction.......It's easy for me to offer that afterthought advice 'cause I would Never have the Patience to work & isolate the problem so Efficiently how you Did !! .......You Da Man !!!
I think you made the best choice for the module. The only other possible fix would be a junkyard module, but that's a huge roll of the dice no matter how you look at it. I know I could live with the new change in how the system operates, and obviously the customer agrees. Not so crazy of a hack after all!!
cut the power feed to the module ad a relay in that is controlled by the ignition power feed. leave it on its original circuit just have it shut off by the relay
Too much work lol
Nice repair, at first I heard the flap motors when you reconnected the fuse and thought that wont work it will kill those motors. But when you did the actual jumper connections it did not make the motor calibration noise. And you are right those components are way too overpriced for what they are. It looks like they are out to fill their pockets full of money. The manufactures want the cars back at their dealerships to keep money flowing back to them.
As I have said before all these ' gadets' in newer cars are the worst type of so called advancements in vehicle owner comforts are a complete waste of money.They come under what I call the laziness syndrome.Cheers Ivan you are the best.
I can feel your frustration all the way over here in the northwest of the USA. Having to explain to the customer why the repair is going to cost so much and why it takes so much time to fix it, can be very draining.
Well done!
Nice fix Ivan
Hmmm $1000 for the car to remember my climate settings or couple drops of solder and tape and I set the temp myself. I'll do the last one. The sad thing is your right Ivan. Even being generous the cost of making that module and shipping at most would be $100. Well done my friend.