Bro if you lowered the lever arms and laid down on the bench say for bench press it would change the force curve. Also that chest machine you got doesn't give you a deep stretch it gives you way less of a stretch then even a barbell bench press
I watched the whole video waiting to hear why he didn't lower the arms for chest press and....nada. Seems like it may not have occurred to the poster to do this. I use safety arms as stoppers for the lever arms on my rack so I can get the right working height for the strength curve I enjoy.
@@jonstewart5386exactly idk, I guess not everyone with a bit of money has a bit of intelligence. The cool thing about the lever arms is they can literally do the exact same thing as that machine if you position them there. I'm disappointed I watched this video.
I agree that the number 1 thing is you need to enjoy doing the movement and I totally see how those two machines are probably better than levers arms, using the lever arms flat and resting on safety arms would over come the weight curve but not that issue where they converge out at the top of the movement
I love my lever arm. Singular. Belt squats and standing calf raises are what I mostly use it for. No problem with strength curve or anything else. Chained to be able to start standing.
you should of looked into the signature fitness lever arms they have a swivel so they dont make work outs awkward and straight. to get the optimal chest press you would want to lower the base to like shoulder height and use some form of stopper like a chain or weight peg.
I was contemplating lever arms for my home gym rack. Not Titan, but Major Fitness. Seeing your opinion on it clarified my question regarding the proper motion and resistance curve. I'm gonna stick with the barbell and dumbbells.
If you have the space, a functional trainer is awesome as an addition. I got Valor Fitness. You could also check out syedee at Walmart or GMWD on Amazon
Precisely! Strength curve is an issue. That is why - and this goes all the way back to Nautilus - machine designers work with engineers and kinesiologists to manufacture cambers that alter the strength curve appropriately throughout the lift cycle. These lever arms have absolutely no means to account for the appropriate strength curve changes that occur during their movement.
Great explanation. So true. Also, you are not being nitpicky 𝙖𝙩 𝙖𝙡𝙡. The resistance curve basically renders these exercises useless. That machine you bought is really well priced and looks incredible. But in its absence it would still be better to spend the money on a pulley system or adjustable dumbbells rather than the lever arms.
Love his channel. The rotating solution he has does allow for converging, but doesn't fix the strength curve. Good solution for people without space, but still inferior to machines imo
Wish I would have seen this video before I bought my lever arms. I totally agree. I don't ever use my lever arms. I don't like the strength curve and most exercises don't feel right. But I am also lazy and don't like spending time to set up the lever arms for different exercises. I get way more out of individual machines that I have in my gym versus lever arms.
Thanks for the comment, brother! I felt the same about machines vs. Lever arms. I'm sure laziness also plays a role here. If I'd rig them up in different ways with bands etc., maybe it'd feel better. For now, they sit on marketplace
Look up "unlock the full potential of your lever arms, he attached cable pullyes to each arm and it makes it an even resistance curve the whole time. I'm planning on doing the same thing. And Kiezen DIY made an attachment that lets your lever arms swivel in any direction, so with those two hacks you can replicate any machine in the gym, I'm seen a guy just tie his cable from his low pulley to it from his rack mounted last pull down station that would work as well. The one I'm excited about most and putting a pull up bar to link both arms together, and doing leg press off my incline bench. Haven't tried any of this yet, but looks promising.
As far as the chest press with the lever arms, you have much more leverage advantage at the top of the lift when your arms are extended then when they are down near your chest. Just consider how many times you have been able to lift heavy loads off the rack before a bench or squat, only to find that you could not move it at the bottom of the lift. This principle works EXACTLY like lifting a heavy bar off the squat rack two inches to get it free from the pins. You can easily lift FAR more those last few inches than you can at the bottom of the squat. In fact we have all experienced this in both lifts where we have easily taken it off the rack, and could not perform the movement once it hit our chest, or the bottom of the squat. There are videos after videos out there of people easily taking the bar off the cage and then failing to finish the movement. Hope this makes sense
I'm with you! In my opinion and body structure/muscle development, there is a little too much bias toward triceps with these. A barbell, dumbbells, or machines puts more stimulus on the chest for me, which was what I wanted to focus on.
The strength curve for row and press are opposite. You want higher resistance at the lockout point on presses. There is only one row I’ve used that has a great strength curve. The Rogers pendulum row. It’s a tough design.
I'll give that a look, thanks! The lever arm presses were so drastically different in lockout vs bottom that I didn't feel like they hit the chest well for me. More like a slingshot press almost
It was Gary Jones who developed the idea of the CAM after years of Arthur Jones trying to correct the strength curve of the flagship Nautilus Pullover. That is to say- companies actually have to give an eff. Best Chest Press I've ever used: Nautilus 2st Vertical Chest Press
Mikola fitness has a new jabber arms with a spider joint it has a better range of motion u can Even do chest Flys with. I had the syedee b4 I had my mikola cage
I see a lot of mistakes in there, to many specialised machines what you need in a home gym is low space multi purpose machines so you can do many exercises on each machine
Not if you have the space for machines superior for each body part. Most work is done with cables, dbs, barbell. Machines for the body parts I really care about building.
One of the best and clearest evaluations of lever arms in general and Titans (which I have...) specifically... The faults are greater than benefits... like to get rid of mine and go for the bench press machine he reviewed... Job well done ... Hope he puts out more of same good quality so the average buyers will not make same mistake due to lack of experience or knowledge... Thanks for taking time to go into detail instead of the usual white wash most reviewers give... Stay safe and enjoy the journey...
If you lowered the arms the only different in physics is that the handles close on the single machine, which is obviously more preferable but still no different to the bench press in hand positions, was it really that bad?
The machine is much more stable than a bench press which is great for variation. And yes they converge. Vendetta attachments for the lever arms would set up the lever arms in a similar path, but are very expensive.
Totally agreed. I find these kinds of arms almost completely useless. It's also why I only use bands for limited applications, like physio type movements, warmups, or for adding resistance to barbell exercises, or assisting in pullups
I usually did from a vertical or incline bench so the path was the same as a bench press, trying to replicate hammer strength machines. Happy with my alternative now instead of these!
I'm glad for your that you got rid of those titan arms... useless in my opinion and went with a more shocking inexpensive chest press...This brand is killing it ...with the prices...
If anyone wants to buy a pair of Rep ISO Arms for the 4000 series let me know. I never use them for the exact reasons in this video. Probably the worst home gym purchase I've ever made. They look so cool in the promotional videos but the strength curve feels completely wrong. I expected it to feel like a Hammer Strength machine and it's not.
Bang for buck I wonder if the powertec ( or knock offs) lever gyms are the best investment in that they cover a ton of ground. I like the small foot print of those two units though. Jammer or Lever arms alone are way overpriced imo.
You can literally manipulate the strength curves of all exercises on lever arms. Your example with rows can even be fixed with just placing the arm below the pivot point. Not a good video.
Glad you're liking yours, brother! I haven't been a fan, but that's just my experience. Important that everyone finds exercises they enjoy and get good stimulus from.
Sir, you're Not big enough to be Picky, but aside from that compliment - jk IF I were to use any "Lever Arm" attachment - It would ONLY probably be specifically for: 1) Incline Chest Press (with Bands attached at the bottom position - so there's immediate resistance) 2) Military Shoulder Press I can already tell just by looking at the Lever Arms, that it wouldn't be good for any type of Back exercise or anything else for that matter. note: If you Trained to Failure, this Information you're Providing Us wouldn't even Enter your Brain. 🧠 Note: I just thought of this: I would Install the Lever Arms on the other side of the power rack (the non-busy-side) (If you have room on that side of course) - that way, they are always there and No put-on or take-off involved
I got a bunch of attachments for my rack, and I liked them. But I'm currently replacing them with machines because they just take up too much space on the rack to the point where it makes it almost impossible to use the rack for it's intended purpose, and I don't want to mess around with 120lb attachments before every workout or configuring the machine to do something else. On top of that is the strength curve thing and most of the attachments end up costing the same or more than the cheap machines. Also since it's my space, I found that I like to just leave my last lifted weights on them and it makes working out nice because everything is already set up for your next session.
If you used your arms on a power hack that had pulleys with cables, you could maintain tension throughout the movement evenly.
Bro if you lowered the lever arms and laid down on the bench say for bench press it would change the force curve. Also that chest machine you got doesn't give you a deep stretch it gives you way less of a stretch then even a barbell bench press
Nah you can lower each arm of the machine for more stretch. Ends up about like db bench or a little more stretch
Exacty
I watched the whole video waiting to hear why he didn't lower the arms for chest press and....nada. Seems like it may not have occurred to the poster to do this. I use safety arms as stoppers for the lever arms on my rack so I can get the right working height for the strength curve I enjoy.
@@jonstewart5386exactly idk, I guess not everyone with a bit of money has a bit of intelligence. The cool thing about the lever arms is they can literally do the exact same thing as that machine if you position them there. I'm disappointed I watched this video.
@@No-ju9xzMe too I’m disappointed I watched this video.
I agree that the number 1 thing is you need to enjoy doing the movement and I totally see how those two machines are probably better than levers arms, using the lever arms flat and resting on safety arms would over come the weight curve but not that issue where they converge out at the top of the movement
I honestly think landmines are better for the price than jammer arms
I love my lever arm. Singular. Belt squats and standing calf raises are what I mostly use it for. No problem with strength curve or anything else. Chained to be able to start standing.
you should of looked into the signature fitness lever arms they have a swivel so they dont make work outs awkward and straight. to get the optimal chest press you would want to lower the base to like shoulder height and use some form of stopper like a chain or weight peg.
Great video wondering how strength curve would be if hooked to cable system that way its constant vs gravity?
Much better I'm sure if one wanted to move their rack around
Thanks for the tip
You should have purchased our free motion swing arms. A game changer.
Whts the website? Will they fit other power racks from other companies? Also, why no equipment for pec/delt flys?
I was contemplating lever arms for my home gym rack. Not Titan, but Major Fitness. Seeing your opinion on it clarified my question regarding the proper motion and resistance curve. I'm gonna stick with the barbell and dumbbells.
If you have the space, a functional trainer is awesome as an addition. I got Valor Fitness. You could also check out syedee at Walmart or GMWD on Amazon
Precisely! Strength curve is an issue. That is why - and this goes all the way back to Nautilus - machine designers work with engineers and kinesiologists to manufacture cambers that alter the strength curve appropriately throughout the lift cycle.
These lever arms have absolutely no means to account for the appropriate strength curve changes that occur during their movement.
A lot don't understand this! They tend to overload the wrong parts of exercises
seyeed is so underrated. I bought their belt squat and honestly worth the investment!!! Awesome videos!!!
Awesome! I'm looking into either the belt squat, hack squat, or Smith for a leg machine!
Great explanation. So true. Also, you are not being nitpicky 𝙖𝙩 𝙖𝙡𝙡. The resistance curve basically renders these exercises useless. That machine you bought is really well priced and looks incredible. But in its absence it would still be better to spend the money on a pulley system or adjustable dumbbells rather than the lever arms.
For sure! Besides from the little stuff, my home gym purchase order went
Barbell/rack/bench
Dumbbells
Cable system
Machines/lever arms
Advantageous for rotational movements for throwing sports, rotational push and such. Especially if you use just bands. IMHO.
The Diy Kaizen channel has created a solution for the lever arms and many other DIY exercises.
Thanks for the video
Love his channel. The rotating solution he has does allow for converging, but doesn't fix the strength curve. Good solution for people without space, but still inferior to machines imo
@@stolzfit Thank you
Wish I would have seen this video before I bought my lever arms. I totally agree. I don't ever use my lever arms. I don't like the strength curve and most exercises don't feel right. But I am also lazy and don't like spending time to set up the lever arms for different exercises. I get way more out of individual machines that I have in my gym versus lever arms.
Thanks for the comment, brother! I felt the same about machines vs. Lever arms. I'm sure laziness also plays a role here. If I'd rig them up in different ways with bands etc., maybe it'd feel better. For now, they sit on marketplace
Look up "unlock the full potential of your lever arms, he attached cable pullyes to each arm and it makes it an even resistance curve the whole time. I'm planning on doing the same thing. And Kiezen DIY made an attachment that lets your lever arms swivel in any direction, so with those two hacks you can replicate any machine in the gym, I'm seen a guy just tie his cable from his low pulley to it from his rack mounted last pull down station that would work as well. The one I'm excited about most and putting a pull up bar to link both arms together, and doing leg press off my incline bench. Haven't tried any of this yet, but looks promising.
Check out Matt Rosenman for his lever arm videos.
His videos are what convinced me to buy them! He's very creative
As far as the chest press with the lever arms, you have much more leverage advantage at the top of the lift when your arms are extended then when they are down near your chest. Just consider how many times you have been able to lift heavy loads off the rack before a bench or squat, only to find that you could not move it at the bottom of the lift. This principle works EXACTLY like lifting a heavy bar off the squat rack two inches to get it free from the pins. You can easily lift FAR more those last few inches than you can at the bottom of the squat. In fact we have all experienced this in both lifts where we have easily taken it off the rack, and could not perform the movement once it hit our chest, or the bottom of the squat. There are videos after videos out there of people easily taking the bar off the cage and then failing to finish the movement. Hope this makes sense
I'm with you! In my opinion and body structure/muscle development, there is a little too much bias toward triceps with these. A barbell, dumbbells, or machines puts more stimulus on the chest for me, which was what I wanted to focus on.
The strength curve for row and press are opposite. You want higher resistance at the lockout point on presses. There is only one row I’ve used that has a great strength curve. The Rogers pendulum row. It’s a tough design.
I'll give that a look, thanks! The lever arm presses were so drastically different in lockout vs bottom that I didn't feel like they hit the chest well for me. More like a slingshot press almost
It was Gary Jones who developed the idea of the CAM after years of Arthur Jones trying to correct the strength curve of the flagship Nautilus Pullover. That is to say- companies actually have to give an eff. Best Chest Press I've ever used: Nautilus 2st Vertical Chest Press
Mikola fitness has a new jabber arms with a spider joint it has a better range of motion u can Even do chest Flys with. I had the syedee b4 I had my mikola cage
Cool I'll check it out!
They’re only worth it if you have the vendettas tbh or things that make the weight curves harder
Do you have a link for the chest press ya bought?
Search in the Walmart app for syedee. They have a whole list of machines that are cheap
What are the names of the 2 machines you use?
Syedee chest press and syedee seated row
Can the gwmd be modified to do low decline press?
Just incline and flat
I see a lot of mistakes in there, to many specialised machines what you need in a home gym is low space multi purpose machines so you can do many exercises on each machine
Not if you have the space for machines superior for each body part. Most work is done with cables, dbs, barbell. Machines for the body parts I really care about building.
One of the best and clearest evaluations of lever arms in general and Titans (which I have...) specifically... The faults are greater than benefits... like to get rid of mine and go for the bench press machine he reviewed... Job well done ... Hope he puts out more of same good quality so the average buyers will not make same mistake due to lack of experience or knowledge... Thanks for taking time to go into detail instead of the usual white wash most reviewers give... Stay safe and enjoy the journey...
If you lowered the arms the only different in physics is that the handles close on the single machine, which is obviously more preferable but still no different to the bench press in hand positions, was it really that bad?
The machine is much more stable than a bench press which is great for variation. And yes they converge. Vendetta attachments for the lever arms would set up the lever arms in a similar path, but are very expensive.
Totally agreed. I find these kinds of arms almost completely useless. It's also why I only use bands for limited applications, like physio type movements, warmups, or for adding resistance to barbell exercises, or assisting in pullups
Disappointing for sure. The vendetta attachments would change the game, but alone I don't ever use them
saved me 300 bucks.
What brand chest press machine is that?
Syedee
@@stolzfit Thanks! I like how compact it is.
Dont have Titan I have rep but yeah rows are lame. They are great for shoulder pressing though.
just do a regular benchp ress on lever arms instead of standing chest press
I usually did from a vertical or incline bench so the path was the same as a bench press, trying to replicate hammer strength machines. Happy with my alternative now instead of these!
I'm glad for your that you got rid of those titan arms... useless in my opinion and went with a more shocking inexpensive chest press...This brand is killing it ...with the prices...
Start by getting rid of Titan equipment
Titan actually has some great stuff imo
If anyone wants to buy a pair of Rep ISO Arms for the 4000 series let me know. I never use them for the exact reasons in this video. Probably the worst home gym purchase I've ever made. They look so cool in the promotional videos but the strength curve feels completely wrong. I expected it to feel like a Hammer Strength machine and it's not.
Mine are still for sale with no takers lol. I wish you better luck
Bang for buck I wonder if the powertec ( or knock offs) lever gyms are the best investment in that they cover a ton of ground. I like the small foot print of those two units though. Jammer or Lever arms alone are way overpriced imo.
Depends on the budget but can't beat a cable station and power rack/ barbell set
vendetta brackets fix the force curve issue
Good point those are awesome. Couldn't shell out the money for them then bought two machines
You're using these incorrectly, lol.
Nah. Tried many variations on them. Still didn't end up a fan. But luckily found some movements that work for me and that's what matters!
hm, besides that you are not strongest on lengthend position its great advice
Thanks for watching!
You can literally manipulate the strength curves of all exercises on lever arms. Your example with rows can even be fixed with just placing the arm below the pivot point. Not a good video.
Glad you're liking yours, brother! I haven't been a fan, but that's just my experience. Important that everyone finds exercises they enjoy and get good stimulus from.
Probably the best answer I ever read to a comment.
Can you explain this more?
Sir, you're Not big enough to be Picky, but aside from that compliment - jk
IF I were to use any "Lever Arm" attachment -
It would ONLY probably be specifically for:
1) Incline Chest Press (with Bands attached at the bottom position - so there's immediate resistance)
2) Military Shoulder Press
I can already tell just by looking at the Lever Arms, that it wouldn't be good for any type of Back exercise or anything else for that matter.
note: If you Trained to Failure, this Information you're Providing Us wouldn't even Enter your Brain. 🧠
Note: I just thought of this: I would Install the Lever Arms on the other side of the power rack (the non-busy-side) (If you have room on that side of course) - that way, they are always there and No put-on or take-off involved
Thanks for the comment, proflex!
🤦🏽♂️
✌️
Bruh is reaching. Those arms dont even look like they arent even stable.
They're stable. Just bad strength curves and didn't prefer the movements they offer
you dont know how to use the lever arm
Machines > lever arms in every way imaginable except space footprint.
I got a bunch of attachments for my rack, and I liked them. But I'm currently replacing them with machines because they just take up too much space on the rack to the point where it makes it almost impossible to use the rack for it's intended purpose, and I don't want to mess around with 120lb attachments before every workout or configuring the machine to do something else. On top of that is the strength curve thing and most of the attachments end up costing the same or more than the cheap machines. Also since it's my space, I found that I like to just leave my last lifted weights on them and it makes working out nice because everything is already set up for your next session.
I agree with everything you said!
Exactly. I love some attachments like vendetta arms, but they are more than a whole 2 or 3 machines if you have the space