Taking Coils for Alpine Climbing - a Deeeep Dive// DAVE SEARLE
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- In this video we take a look at nearly every system that is accepted to use to shorten the rope for alpine climbing or mountaineering. It's a super in depth video so make yourself a cuppa and get stuck in.
There are almost certainly other systems out there for shortening the rope but these are the most common.
I talk through the pros and cons and my go to systems. Let me know your thoughts in the comments!
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:41 Initial set up / how to practice
03:33 Taking coils
05:06 Tying off coils
06:36 Lowering the pull with a Carabiner
07:47 Finer points of tied off chest coils
12:11 Unblocked Chest coils
13:58 Sheet bend tie off
15:51 Bowline tie off
16:34 Opposing carabiner
17:07 Overhand clipped in
19:48 North American tie off
21:21 Both arms through
22:34 Stuffing the rope into the Bag.
25:22 mechanical rope attachments
26:40 Using a prusik on the harness
27:34 Outro
Interested in learning more or hiring me a guide? Check out my website: www.davesearleguiding.com/
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Petzl I beam style Carabiner: amzn.to/3BZ3njz
Petzl Connect Adjust: amzn.to/3WlUSXR
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Petzl crevasse rescue kit: (Tibloc Microtraxion etc) amzn.to/3jk3fVj
Petzl Irvis Hybrid crampons: amzn.to/3WE7bi9
Petzl Rad Line amzn.to/3v9mFPw
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Excellent video. Best one I've seen on this.
Thanks!
The current standard taught in Austria to beginners is a variant of what you call the „North American tie off“. The difference is that (1) the coils are longer (even slightly longer than in 21:21)- so that they don’t crunch you up and the tie off forms a compact knot and (2) the overhand goes around both strands of the bight through the belay loop. This solves the two problems you mentioned - but of course there are other tradeoffs
I really needed a video like this last winter. So glad to have it now. Thank you!!!
Now you have it!
The only video I need to practice taking coils 👏 Excellent!
Great!
Super-informative video, many thanks!
Fantastic Video!I just discovered your channel and I feel like alpine climbing tips is a niche that's not yet filled in terms of youtube creators. So I really hope your channel will grow more, absolutely great stuff!
Glad it was helpful! I do hope to grow it over the coming years.
Really nice video!! good points, a lot to take away and use. keep up the good work, love all the videos, glad they're are back!!
Glad you like them!
So good, thanks for doing these 🙏🏻
You're welcome!
Excellent tutorial. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Love your content Dave 👍
Thanks!
Extremely useful !!
Great!
Outstanding. Comprehensive, balanced and well delivered. Best I’ve seen on this topic.
Thanks!
Excellent video! I definitely learned some drawbacks to the system I was taught and will have to experiment with some of the other techniques you demonstrated.
You’re welcome!
Absolutely god tier video, so much information in here and presented in a very balanced way.
Thanks!
Excellent video. You taught an old dog new tricks!
Glad you liked it!
amazing thanks you share
Cheers, good vid!
No worries!
Thanks for the awesome information Dave!
One thing I would add is a hybrid system that I use a lot.
Starting with as much rope as I can in the backpack, and if/when I have to take rope out then back in, I'll just add a few coils around my body. So the majority of the rope is still in the bag, and then maybe I have just 4 loops around my body. Works wonders.
Thanks! Good input!
I thought you were just a torso at first, I was worred. 😮😂
Thanks
Excellent video. Just started taking my 5 year old son out on some Snowdonia scrambles so like to have a reference to make sure that my coils are good.
Glad it was helpful!
Very interesting and well explained. The prusik/machard setup is generally backed up by a knot on the unloaded strand of the rope, i.e. between the prusik and the rucksack/coils. That helps preventing the rope to slide through the prusik when loaded as you correctly pointed out. Personally, I sometimes coil half of the rope (30 m of a 60 m rope) and place it over by backpack like you would do on the approach or inside if I have space. I find it more comfortable to carry the extra weight and I’ve half of the rope neatly stored away ready to be deployed when needed (abseiling). Thanks for the great content!
Yeah I've seen the back up knot being used like that but it begs the question what is the benefit of that system. I guess its good to have a prusik already loaded for going straight into climbing the rope. I do also see a lot of folks not using that backup knot also.
@@DaveSearle I'd say that one, maybe minor, advantage is that you can pay out slack when the rope is loaded more easily with a prusik than with a clove hitch. Even when unloaded I find easier pulling the rope through a prusik compared to adjusting a clove hitch.
Such a great video. Now i have to rethink about everthing i thougt i knew about chest coils. I relly enjoy lerning from your videos and Posts.
I have one question. When doing the sheet bend, would it be possible to do it around your belay loop? so no worries about ringloding the 8.
regards from Germany
Yes I did try that and it seems to work fine except my concern is rope on dyneema belay loop might not grip as well. Hard to test to know for sure. also some belay loops aren't soft or supple enough. I feel like a figure 8 with stopper is pretty good for this and frees up the belay loop for other things like a Connect Adjust which takes up quite a bit of space.
Great video! Unrelated question- love the map print on your wall behind you, is that a print available to buy somewhere ?
Ah ha. It’s actually a custom job. Swisstopo maps printed out in poster quality.
I've come back to this video again and again, as it is the most comprehensive and helpful video I've found on the matter! One question, though. Is it at all unsafe to undo the carabiner while it's under load in order to remove the loop? I know there are different schools of thought on this, but learning in the (overly safe?) USA, we were generally taught not to open the carabiner in a life-saving system, but I can also understand that the risk is probably extremely low of something going wrong. Thanks again!
Try and get a loaded clove hitch out of a carabiner when it’s open. It’s basically impossible!
@@DaveSearle I figured that was the case. And I assume you'd only open it when the clove isn't loaded in order to take coils in or out when you're in a good spot with minimal fall risk. And even then, you have the coils blocked off on your chest which would basically do the same job... Anyway, good chat 😆
I don't quite understand putting the micro trax directly on the initial load line. As I understood it, the advantage of using a knot with a loop (OH, figure8) vs. a clove hitch is that you can transfer the load to the anchor and then build a 2:1 or a 6:1 drop c on your unused rope because 1) the load line is probably dug in to the lip and 2) if it's a 2p team, you probably have alpine butterfly knots to catch so you can't haul on that line.
Good question! I know exactly the system you have been taught and it does make a lot of sense to do a drop loop c if you have enough of a reserve of rope. For me I never find that I have that much of a reserve of rope to be able to perform that rescue (if I had to of course, it’s something you never hope to have to do!) if you are a team of two on a rope then you will likely have 15-20 meters of rope between you plus knots. You would then both need 30-42 meters of rope in reserve to be able to perform a rescue. Could be feasible if you have two 60m ropes and one person takes the coils and the other takes the other rope in their bag, that’s how I’d do it on a really big wild glacier. The system that I’m describing is commonly taught in the als where we operate with 50m single ropes a lot of the time and doing a drop loop c 2:1 isn’t feasible because there simply isn’t enough rope in the system. Putting the rope straight through a Microtraxion then running the rope over something at the lip works fairly well. You can then strip braking knots as they come towards the micro trax. Hope that helps!
Hello Dave. Thank your for year great videos. I have a general question: Which rope length do you use for Classic Alpine Climbs (e.g. in Swiss) up to PD/AD and what is your "standard" crevasse rescue technique in case something happens. Thank you!
It depends a lot on the route but I would say 50m is good for classic technical routes in the alps. 60 can be useful sometimes but I would say is less common as a Standard length.
When climbing with 3, what would your preferred method of tying the 'middle' person into the rope? Many thanks and great video!
Hi harry, it depends on the situation to be honest! When travelling on a glacier it would be good to be just clipped in so you can easily unclip. In rocky scrambling it’s better to be tied in with a retreaded overhand knot for example. Perhaps there is more to talk about there!
@@DaveSearle would there be any reason for the scrambling approach to warrant being tied in rather than just clipped in? Interesting and thanks for the quick reply!
Overhand is diffucult to untie after it has been heavily loaded, alpine butterfly is a lot better in that sense.
Good point thank you.
I haven't used this but just thought about it being possible (not practical probably). But why not take your coils, and then use a grigri with an overhand cinched against it, allows for easy taking up rope as well as easy feeding out, and instant transition to belaying should your leading climber come across something thats prefferd to not simul.
Interesting thought! Could work on certain routes but probably not practical in a lot of alpine situations. Not sure how grigris perform in the cold/snow
@@DaveSearle indeed, probably too heavy. Grigris work fine on wet ropes but iced up is a whole different story and I wouldn't know.
Not well. Ice/ snow and Grigris are a bad mix.
Good step-by-step tutorial, but video could be shrinked to half the time.
Well then it wouldn’t be a deep dive…