Petzl RAD LINE Masterclass Ep1 // Dave Searle
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- In this video we talk about the Petzl Radline which is my go to ski mountaineering rope. We talk through some of the scenarios that you might use the radline for, the gear that you need to work with these ropes and also some ways to use gain more friction when rappelling.
Sponsorship disclosure: This video isn't sponsored or endorsed by Petzl but I am affiliated with them (UK Team member) and most of the gear in this video for free.
Disclaimer: This rope is for expert use only, you need to have a full understanding of many different techniques (some mentioned in this video) to be able to use this rope safely. Use this information as you see fit. You are responsible for your own safety in the mountains!
Petzl Radline: www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Rop...
Gear perspective: gearperspective.com/
Ropelite llc www.ropelitellc.com/
4mm technora Sheathed dyneema shop.inorope.com/shop/cordage...
Beal escaper: www.beal-planet.com/fr/anneau...
My Website : www.davesearleguiding.com/
My instagram: / davejsearle - Sport
This has been sorely needed since this thing came out. Petzl dropped the ball on its video based information on this product. Thanks, Dave!!
Thank you!
Super Video. Answers all questions. That Rope Bag looks really handy. Put it on market :)
Excellent video, Dave.
Thsnks for all the information.
+1 on the Gear Perspective rope bag. Thanks for the videos.
Brilliant, looking forward to the video on roping up with the radline on glaciers etc. 30m / 60m, 2ppl /3ppl.
Love the bags, I would definitely buy one. Great video
Great video!
Been loving my RAD line and rappelled the single strand a lot in combination with an escaper. :)
Amazing video! Thanks Dave!!!
Glad you liked it!
Great video, subscribed to make sure i'll see the following episodes.
Thanks!
Awesome video! Your presentation is getting really great and the information was very well curated. Thoroguhly enjoyed and learned a lot.
Glad it was helpful!
Dave, love how you distill topics that can look intimidating into more a easily digestible delivery. I would absolutely be in for one of those rope bags, please keep us informed!
Awesome, thank you!
Count me in for a bag. Please keep us informed when they are available. Very informative. Thank you.
Will do!
Nice video
What i like most ( when im using the microtraxion / tibloc ) - is to secure them with a cord to the smd carabiners
Awesome video! Not sure why the algorithm suggested this, but glad it did.
Obscure use case for a rad line - I carry a 30m rad line while paragliding for tree self rescue (Pacific NW of USA has TALL trees), but I've never actually tried it, this video makes me want to go practice!
For sure skied on belay practice ski cutting in the 1980s . Fast forward am back need to work on my rope skills . Good stuff
Really cool! I like the rope bag for sure!
Me too!
Excellent video again 👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Great video - look forward to the follow ups. The bag looks great - better than the Petzl for sure. I would buy one.
With inspiration from canyoneering I would make a slit in between the bottom holes with a bit of overlap and secure that with a push button or two.
That way you could have your normal fig-8 setup like now with the benefit of undoing the button and accessing that end of the rope aswell
Good idea, I’ll see if that might be possible.
But I’m also not sure when I would need access to both ends without having it out of the bag. Most of the time I’m just skiing around with it and not using it.
Nice to see some footage of you working together with Hidden Faces! Good rope-tip around 6:00, should have known that a few years back. Much more stable whilst skiing !
Glad you found it useful!
Will purchase it! Great vid
Great!
Dave, kudos for you and this kind of videos, very professional content!
About the bag, looks great, will be great if its light enough since sometimes we have 660g rope in a 90g bag😢
What do you think about the Edelrid rap line mixed rope, yes a bit more weight, but a bit better in fall crevasse and even in twin rope use can resist 2 climb falls. Will be great if petzl or other brands explore this option.
About upcoming video, will be great over the terrain one person falling in crevase not being attached to the partner, and the same situation but like skiing down or travelling glacier with rope and have a fall of the first skier that i think are the more common situations.
Thanks again for your channel
ALWAYS quality
I'd be keen for a bag. Thank you for the video.
Will definitely purchase the bag if released!
Awesome! Thank you!
Thanks for the video. I would absolutely purchase that bag
Good to know!
clear video as usual!! let us know when you make video for each situation you use the rad, Thanks Dave
Will do!
We appreciate your thoughts on this Dave, thank you!
No worries!
Great video thanks!
Glad you liked it!
You might cover this in a future video, but in the instance that you are trying to quickly deploy it from your backpack, how are you tying yourself into the rope since the end stays in your bag? Butterfly or overhand on a bight? Something else? Thanks as always for a great video!
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the great tutorial! Love the bag. Something very similar if not identical is used with Water rescue services. Probably a bit heavier and without the Daisy though...
Yeah it looks very similar to my whitewater kayaking throw bag..
Excellent video, and looking forward to the next edition - do you think the Ropelite material has a high enough melting point to use as a third hand backup on rappel? I had a bit of trouble finding info about that aspect of the material
Great video. If you are gonna make more videos like that then i am definitely subscribing
Thank you, I will
Nice video, looking forward to follow up episodes. I know that hyperstatic lines are (against all recommendations) used for easy/short lead climbing in ski mountaineering where no direct, vertical falls are likely. Maybe you can give your opinion on absolute nogos and possibly acceptable climbing applications. If you have any experience with the Edelrid rap line, I'd be interested to hear your take on whether the small amount of stretch with the rap line could make up for the higher weight by being slightly more universal?
Great video looking forward to the next ones! In glacier travel with 2 people roped up, will a regular hoist system with the 4mm homemade prusic work? Or do you need 2 sets of tibloc and microtraction? And will the prussic work when the rope is wet and icy? I am guessing I am about the same weight as you 75 kg ish
Another cracking tutorial, thanks! Unfortunately, Ropelite don’t deliver orders to the U.K.- please help with an alternative source for the 5mm prusik on the Radline?
thank you!!!!!
Gear perspective rope bag, yes!
Coming soon! Hopefully
Good job Dave - would be useful in part 2 (or 3) to talk about how these thin ropes tend to really dig into cornices when you're rapping into a line. That happened to us at Rogers Pass a few days ago skiing the Shelf on Cheops - had to ascend back as there was no way we could free it - it was only when I was 2 m from the anchor that the line started moving ! Freed it and then used an extension with cordelette to get around the problem the second time. Guess that's why there are so many pieces of wood on lines like Hangling Glacier / Tuzo ... :-) Lesson learned though ...
That’s a very valid point and honestly not just to do with thin ropes (although it is worse for sure)
I would definitely be interested in the rope bag!
Great!
Hey great vid, thanks ! Keep us infpormed for those rope bag, definitely would like to get one !
When you rope up on a glacier with this thin of a rope, would you recommend stopper knots ? I tend to use alpine butterfly knots but I heard they untie easily with thin & slippery ropes...
A lot of helpful information! When is part 2 coming and what will it cover? Thanks Dave
Working on it now and it’s about slope cutting and quick easy snow anchors for that. Other topics I hope to film and real ease when I have time are crevasse rescue techniques, roping up, rappelling etc
I found that Sterling 5mm nylon accessory cord with a 4-5 wrap prusik or kleimheist works sufficiently well on a single strand of rad line, and 3-4 wraps works on double strands. It's their thinnest nylon cord that still has a CE rating for climbing, at 5.1kN for a single strand so tied in a loop with knots that's probably like 100-150% of that strength (so probably 5-7kN). It's also pretty cheap, about $0.50 / foot. I wouldn't use it for serious rescue systems if it needs to hold more than just bodyweight + some friction but I feel confident in it's strength for glacier travel, crevasse rescue and other skimo needs.
Good insights thank you!
Thanks for the great video Dave, when will the bag be available?!
Still not sure! It’s a work in progress and it needs to come from the states to here for me to check it out, which obviously takes time!
Great video thanks! Put me down for a bag as well.
Great video again, Dave, thanks! For increased friction when rappelling with the rope doubled up, have you tried having both strands through the same rope slot on the reverso? Any concerns with that approach?
Yes I have, it works but I find the second carabiner better. I rarely do add extra friction though.
Definitely would purchase the rope bag if released, I don't have the RAD line but I do have the Rap line from edelrid which is same diameter so as long as the bag could accommodate that rope as well!
If it’s the same diameter then it should do.
Rope bag totally... hope to see some anchors without leaving gear in the series.
the Tibloc goes hand-in-hand with the Petzl Rollclip for me. These two almost never get used apart from each other, they're even tied-to-each-other in one case (I have 2x of both of them).
Great useful video! Still trying to make my mind on the use of that rope for skinning up on glacier... As you said, not the best if the rope is not tight enough.... I had to carry my 50m 7.5mm rope for 4 days just for a few hours on a fully covered glacier traverse....
I think it’s worth setting up a scenario that replicates a potential fall so you can feel what it’s like then make up your mind!
That rope bag is for sure something I could invest in. Looks like it would be more fitting than modifying the bags that come with the RAD line/Glacier cord (or taking a bag from a whitewater throwline).
Yeah we hope it is better!
Will buy that rope bag!
Great!
Thanks for the video! Great information. Have you seen Petzl’s claim that hyperstatic rope is better for glacier travel? What’s your opinion on that considering the other person isn’t a static anchor?
My preference with Radline and other thin lines is the Grivel Scream.
Yeah I’ve seen that one but not used it. Seems a touch heavier than other options but other than that good. I like the reverso for belaying folk whilst they are skiing and those plate style devices don’t work as well for that in my experience.
Hey I just picked up the scream and have been playing with it in my house a bit. Just off the bat it doesn’t seem to have that much extra friction over my smaller BD guide. I’ve tried the various orientations and read the directions. Is that just me? Definitely want to like this device it seems pretty cool plus light/small.
It is a gap on petzls part not having a soft good friction hitch product for the RAD line. It is needed in addition to progress capture pulleys and tiblocks.
For sure! It’s hard to make a full strength (22kn) friction hitch cord loop that works well with these ropes which is (I don’t know for sure) why they don’t.
isn't the Rad line itself only rated to 12 kn? why would the prussik need to be that much stronger than the rope@@DaveSearle
Especially when the traxions are only rated to 4kn for rope damage.
@@johnfrancismacalusoI’m not certain but I think looped sewn webbing has to be over 20kn in case it’s misused as a runner. I’d like to know more.
@@DaveSearle I've used dingy sailing cord for prussiks on smaller diameter cords like this. It is insanely strong (Kevlar) and tiny in diameter. But I've not used the RAD, which has a very different sheath texture.
I also put a screamer on my harness in line with the static cord in case of a harder fall, though I generally just depend on the snow providing an easier catch, as you said.
I'd be curious to hear your take on these two strategies. And congrats on the bag! I modified a SiNyl stuff sack to do the same thing.
Excellent video! Just picked up the RAD line and want to get some of the prussiks you recommended from RopeLite. What size(s) do you recommend for the Micro Prussik and what size for the Micro Hitch Cord?
Not sure but ask ropelite for the right size for radline!
@@DaveSearle Thank you!
It floats as well, due to the polypropylene content. We have just started experimenting with it in water rescue applications.
Good to know!
Thanks
Thank you!
The Edelrid Micro Jul also works fantastically on the RAD line. The one limitation is that I haven't found a good way to convert it to a progress capture *while on rappel. I'm super interested in finding a rappel device that I can convert to a progress capture for rappelling and then ascending a single strand if anyone has a solution that reuses the rappel device. This function would be awesome for rappelling into a crevasse to deliver first aid and ready a victim for hauling then ascending the rappel strand and starting the haul quickly.
I would definitely go for a bag. Needs to be able to take a 40m line though.
The bit about prusik was eye opening 😳! I have a Edilrid rapline, just tested my 5mm nylon prusik and, yup it slipped. Anyone used a 4mm PES cord prusik with this rope before?
Super useful video. Just a quick question Dave: beal back up line could be used for the same things? Or just rappelling and hauling?
Not sure if those are rated to use with progress capture devices such as micro and nano traxion. That would make it difficult to use as a ski rope for crevasse rescue
Nice video! Thank you!
What I always wonder with these 30 m glacier ropes is how suitable they are for a glacier when going up (if you fear to fall into a crevasse). With what I have learned about rope spacing, 30 meters in a 2 and 3 person rope team with stopper knots is not enough. Do you combine 2 x 30 meter ropes? How does a rescue then look like? Do I have to carry the 60 meters? No one could answer that question properly yet.
It would be great to see that in one of the next episodes! :)
I’m hoping to answer these questions in future episodes!
Yes, of course 30m of rope is not enough to rope up a 2 person team, so you bring 2x30m , which is the same total as 1x60m. But, much more versatile. If you carry 1x 60m, and that person fall in the crevasse (unroofed travel) you are SOL. I just listened to a sharp end podcast where that exact scenario happened. Luckily another party skied by, who also had a rope.
If you carry your 60m split up as 2x30m, then if one person falls in, you still have 30m on the surface for a rescue.
@@tjb8841 This is the answer. Tie your 2x 30m rad lines together with a triple fishermans's knot then rope up like you would with a single 60m rope. During a rescue you might have to deal with passing a knot but if you are already tying brake knots for a team of 2-3 then it's not really different.
Neat techniques for some pretty sharp situations. What are your thoughts on giving folks the confidence, through this content-making, to seek up these different situations(like ski-cutting a steep loaded slope). Like; if they need to find it on youtube, should they be up there? Thanks.
It’s something I think about all the time to be honest but my take on it is; I’d rather help folks on their journey of learning and I generally have trust in people to make their own decisions about what they feel comfortable with or what they think is right or wrong. There are plenty of “how to” videos about loads of different potentially dangerous topics (not just within climbing and skiing). I try as hard as humanly possible to give solid information and if I was on the receiving end I would be extremely grateful for the insights.
Great video! What your opinions on the edelrid rap line? Its a bit heavier but dynamic so maybe better in falling situations.
Just a NOTE that it’s NOT DYNAMIC in a low force fall, like a second falling, or someone falling in a crevasse! It becomes dynamic when the Kevlar sheath rips, at a certain, moderately high, force. This loads the nylon dynamic core.
I need that bag in my life…..
Please go for it. Make a bag!!
Thanks for the content! Do you know if a standard sling (10mm Dynex Runner) would work and grip on the Petzl rope?
No it definitely wouldn’t… too slippery
@@DaveSearle Thanks
cool map in the background. where did you got it from?
Made it from a Swiss topo map and printed it like a giant poster and mounted it on a Perspex sheet.
Hey Dave! Awesome video. Super helpful!
Something I've never heard addressed is that the minimum rope diameter for the microtrax is 8mm but the RAD line is 6mm. They are sold together in the kit! Does that fall under the “for expert use only” warning? 😂 Why sell them as a kit if they are not compatible?
Thanks!
-I’m a New Hampshire, USA guy, hangin in Cham for the next couple months. Hope to see you out sometime!
They have been specifically tested by petzl and rated as compatible due to the sheath design of the Rad Line and pur line. They haven’t tested other 6mm cords with these devices (from Beal, sterling or edelrid for example) so they can’t change the rating to encompass 6mm cords on the actual device. All this kit is expert use for sure but I hope this video series empowers folk to learn enough to use it safely.
Gotcha! That makes sense! Thanks for the info.
You could try using superglue at the end of the ropes to prevent fraying. Most ropes will "soak up" a bit of glue and you 'll get a good result easily.
I’ll try it out. Thanks
Micro vs nano also seems easier to get a drop loop down with the cam locked out.
Yep, some big benefits to it.
Hi cheers for great video Dave. Any thoughts on using Edelrid Spok on RAD line? Seems very similar tooth pattern to microtraxion
Hi findlay, I guess as its not rated or tested with the radline you are running the risk that some subtle difference could make it not work...
I have the Spoc and it works fine with the Petzl Rad Line
That rope bag is the missing link for using the rad line out in the real world. I will buy a couple when they come out! How do we find updates about it?
Still finalising a few points but keep an eye on my instagram. Probably still several weeks away.
Would the rope bag work for a 65m Pur line? With the purpose of managing twists in the rope on a multipitch rappel.
The larger version we are making will definitely work with the purline, that’s a big part of why I want it also.
+1 for the bag
Great!
id buy that rope bag.
interested on the rope bag :)
Great!
I know the pur line is used for hauling but I kinda need to haul and do crevasse rescue as well as rapping down…. I know they both are 6 mil cord but not sure if there’s any difference between them hauling wise? any help would be Appreciated!
The reason the outline isn’t good as a dedicated rappel rope is it’s very difficult to get prusik loops to grab which is important if you need to re-ascend the rope. The pur line is best in multi pitch /big wall scenarios when used as a tag/ haul line and the rad line is better for skiing situations when you are roping up on a glacier, hauling someone from a crevasse and doing rappels purely on the radline. I hope that helps!
Also have you tried grivel scream plate and is that better than the edelrid device?
I’ve not used it but it is heavier and doesn’t work like a fig 8 so for me it won’t be as good. Honestly I mostly use my reverso for the radline.
Wouldn‘t it make more sense to use something with a aramid core instead of dyneema for a prusik? Considering the melting temperature of dyneema.
It would yes but this is technora sheath (aramid) and it seems to work totally fine.
I want the rope bag, please!! Thx 🤩
One for 30 m and one for 60 m 😜
I recently picked up a Edelrid rap line and found that using a Tibloc on it is very finicky. If unloaded, the Tibloc can slide down on its own or (worse) become partially unseated and then tear the rope when reloaded. I’d need to be very careful to ensure it is seated every time it’s unloaded/moved up. Do you see the same issue on the Rad Line?
Ive not had issues with the radline. The rapline is not tested and rated with the tibloc or microtraxion.
How abrasive is the rap line on your metal gear under load? I have a rope with aramid and it almost beats even a manky old sand filled caving rope for chewing through alloy belay devices and karabiners! I remember one short 10m abseil grinding through about half an alloy figure of eight on an unplanned abseil on a dirty rope in a cave. My clean aramid rope isn't quite that bad, but it is at the point of using steel krabs and belay on trips to save having to replace gear part way through a sport climbing holiday! How does the rap line fair? It does feel super grippy, a good thing no doubt on such a thin rope, but it is abrasive enough to be something to keep in mind?
To be honest I’ve never had any issues with that. My rad line is always clean and a lot of the time just carried as a backup or for emergency use. I guess aramid is harder than steel when under load so it can really chew through alloys. They really have hit the right balance with the radline.
What length are your two ropelite prusiks/vt cords?
Like the one on the website I think. 28cm
How well does a beal jammy grip on the rad line? I've seen in your older videos that you use it for your third hand autoblock
It works ok but sometimes it can slip.
Which is why I moved away from using them.
How long is your micro prusik from Ropelight LLC? (In cm)
@@petterdavidsen5573+1
How much does all this weigh?
Could you add timestamps for the different parts?
I would love that bag if its not too expensive
What’s your price range?
So... Why a 6mm hyperstatic cord and not a semi static 6mm !?
I presume you are talking about the edelrid rap line? Couple of reasons I prefer the rad line; It’s 22grams a meter vs 31grams a meter for the rap line. It’s got a smaller pack size because it’s more like a soft 5.5mm rope and the edelrid is more like 6.5mm. Hyperstatic actually has
2% elongation so that works very well for rappelling and crevasses rescue situations. Semi static isn’t really winning anything so for me it’s hyperstatic or fully dynamic
@@DaveSearle or the salewa, beal, edelrid etc etc 6mm cords... what about the technology!?! Aramid vs kevlar vs polyester!?
@@nedbu to be honest I'm not so in tune with the differences there bu I have had a aramid rope before (kevlar, some thing) and the radlines handles a lot better and packs smaller.
@@DaveSearle thnx dude!! Im waiting for the next vid!!
No more Beal jammy?
Yeah I’ve moved away from them after a couple slippages.
@@DaveSearle that rope bag seems very nice.
You say so a lot
So?